Wikipedia talk:Article Feedback Tool/Version 5/Archive 3

what is the status of this tool?
Is a new version of this tool still being deployed? (Seems like I noticed it a couple of days ago but haven't seen it today.) What is the "blue pop-up box" mentioned above? MathewTownsend (talk) 12:06, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's the design here, and should be switched off fairly soon :). Status - we're waiting on some tweaks to the abuse filter, and then we'll be looking at a wider deployment. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Failing to see input fields!
I'm a bit confused. I've gone to a couple of the articles which have V5 on them, and I have yet to see the text fields for editing suggestions. I only see "Did you know that you can edit this page?" under "Help improve this article". When I log off and clear my cache, I see "This website is created by people like you. Can you give us a hand?" Care to explain why I can't see the text fields? I've signed up for the news and whatnot, but I must have missed the memo on this change if indeed things aren't wrong on my end. Jesse V. (talk) 17:01, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not replying for so long! Yes, we're testing direct editing requests just to see what impact they have; apologies for its absence in the newsletter. I've been working 7 days a week since October 2011 (my timesheet even says I logged work on Christmas day!) and so I took a week and a half off from the 9th to the 18th, hence the absence. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:31, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

AFT should be linked to a Special page
We should create a Special page (Special:Ratings/article name) that shows:
 * 1) the average ratings for the article;
 * 2) how many people actually found the article helpful;
 * 3) the top comments for that article, voted on by autoconfirmed users

The following features would be available (on the same page) for registered users:
 * 1) (autoconfirmed only) a gadget for picking the most helpful comments and posting them to the talk page for that article, so they're more accessible to other users;
 * 2) (sysop only) a gadget for removing "spam" comments

Discuss. 68.173.113.106 (talk) 01:22, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Support Great idea! Jesse V. (talk) 17:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That already exists :). Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/articlename. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:19, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Possible use of in box
I would recommend adding a  style rule to the AFT5 box; this would look nice in browsers that support it but it doesn't matter aesthetically that not all of them do. 68.173.113.106 (talk) 01:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah; I think it's a non-urgent thing at the moment :). We're encountering a lot of bugs and risk falling behind on development, so I'm going to stick this on the back-burner while we fix more crucial things. Still, thank you for the suggestion, and I'm happy to push people into looking at it in more detail if we get some breathing room :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 01:14, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

User survey?
According to the Schedule section there's an ongoing user survey. Where is this survey anyway? I'd like to help out, but despite subscribing to the newsletter I haven't heard much. :( Jesse V. (talk) 17:41, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you not been linked to the special page? Gah! I'll make sure to make it prominent in the update I'm about to send out. Sorry about that :(. The survey is linked from that page in the top-right (apologies for the lack of prominence). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:29, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I checked out the page and completed the survey. I really like the page, but there are improvements and optimization that can still be made. I voted and whatnot on several dozen responses, and resolved a couple of featured ones. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing widespread deployment. One major suggestion is that I think it should be more obvious how to get feedback from just one page. I discovered by accident that all feedback to Evolution is on this page. I also think you should be able to mark responses as "resolved" without having to feature them first. Sometimes the response isn't professional enough to show off, but is helpful enough to do something about. Hopefully we can also have a way to move the response to Talk for further discussion. And when you feature a response, I have no idea where the "notes" text goes. Sorry for all these suggestions, I didn't think of them when I completed the survey... :) Jesse V. (talk) 18:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, is praise "helpful"? Jesse V. (talk) 18:04, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd consider it helpful :). We're currently looking into many of those features - I agree we need to make it more obvious how to identify the feedback page. Perhaps a new tab, next to "talk"? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:14, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Making a new tab would be a good idea. IMO, it should be labeled "Feedback". There's plenty of space remaining to the left of the "Talk" tab. Jesse V. (talk) 20:20, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I would support a new tab. Question: Should everyone be able to view such feedback tab? Only registered editors? Auto-confirmed? I wouldn't want to encourage passing-by vandals in leaving their feedback when they don't even read and scroll down within an article. Nageh (talk) 20:25, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think autoconfirmed up would make sense; readers who have submitted feedback already have an avenue in. Note we're talking about a tab to the feedback page where an article's feedback is listed, not a tab that opens up the feedback form. Anyway; I'll talk to the team tomorrow :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:49, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Right, we are talking about the same. :) Nageh (talk) 20:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool; just me misunderstanding, then :). I'll see what the guys say! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:51, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Rating talk pages?
Why is the tool displayed on the following talk page? Helder 12:49, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject User scripts
 * I...can't see it there :S. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ahh, got it. Oh dear! Alright, it's been reported; hopefully it'll get fixed soon :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * For the record, the tool also appears on Template:Age in days if I'm not logged in... Helder 18:25, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a cacheing error. The plan is (I think) to just let it clear, and incorporate a manual jump-start if the problem gets more severe. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 18:29, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Should work with watchlist
I think the AFT5 should work with a watchlist. I have a variety of articles that interest me, and when I watchlist the article the talkpage is also watchlisted. I think it would be very helpful to editors if they could see feedback on those pages as well. I'm not sure how well feedback notifications would work on the watchlist page, you may have to make a new format or a new section.

Also, are there any plans on doing a wiki-wide notification thing about AFT5, so that everyone isn't startled by the big change when it's completely deployed? Jesse V. (talk) 08:36, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we're going to have a massive wacking notice at the top of the wiki if you're logged in :). On the watchlisting front, I agree, that'd be awesome! At the moment, though, we're facing the pinch of having fallen behind on designing and building this thing. I'll propose it to the devs and bosses, but I can't promise it'll happen :(. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:06, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I just wanted the watchlist thing to be on the to-do list for whenever the devs get around to it. Jesse V. (talk) 17:28, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Notifying people about feedback is about the most important feature of the tool; without it it's basically an echo chamber (and one which is going to lack scrutiny). --Errant (chat!) 09:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think a new format or section should be necessary; the watchlist should just display the feedback page, just as it displays the content and talk pages. However, this raises two questions:
 * Should updates in the watchlist include solely feedback, or also the tagging for abuse, etc. functions?
 * If I already have a page on my watchlist and suddenly a feedback page gets added to the mix, then what are the odds that bugs will appear?
 * --Toccata quarta (talk) 11:45, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Distinctive icons
The Star icon for featured posts should be different to that of unfeatured posts. This is already done for posts with/without activity, but in this case the difference is too subtle (dark blue vs black icon).

The contour and thickness of both icons should change between states - for example, make a filled star icon for the featured posts, and two different bar graphs for activity states (few short bars for no activity, many tall bars for some activity). Diego (talk) 14:00, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea :). I'm not sure about the activity bar graphs, but the featured posts/unfeatured posts distinction seems fairly simple to do - I'll see if we can fit it in. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:05, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, I didn't mean to put actual activity bar graphs, just two different icons for "no activity" and "activity". Diego (talk) 10:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's not the reason for my guardedness; I'm not a tech, but it means that every post that is loaded in the page would have to involve a more detailed or second query to the database to check if there has been any activity - could slow things down. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 18:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Questions
Several months ago I asked about when the feedback tool will get implemented on all of Wikipedia, and although the answer I obtained indicated that it should be here by now, it is not. Did something get in the way of it?

I looked at the list of feedback on one page, and saw a post that had been flagged for abuse but did not strike me as abusive. Is it possible to "unflag" posts?

Lastly, when feedback gets sent, does that bit of information appears in editors' watchlists? Thanks in advance. --Toccata quarta (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey! Sorry for the delay in replying; things have been hectic over here :). In order:


 * 1) We had some issues with things like the Abuse Filter that have delayed the project, yeah :(. To be honest, delays are going to happen in any big projects - we're just trying to minimise them :). The current plan calls for a ramp up to 10 percent at the beginning of July, and then 100 percent some time after Wikimania.
 * 2) There's no way to unflag them, unfortunately. When it hits five flags it gets hidden, and any rollbacker, reviewer or admin can un-hide it, which voids all the flags.
 * 3) As it's set up at the moment I don't think it does, but I have been pushing to have it included. One worry would be volume; we're estimating around 2 million pieces of feedback a month - imagine every article on your watchlist showing changes simultaneously :S. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:36, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oliver, thanks for working on this. Good to know someone from the UK is involved! I have a quick question - you say that the AFT will ramp up to 10%, then 100% - will there be any intermediate stages, or will it go up from 10% to 100% in one go? The Cavalry (Message me) 16:34, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There'll probably be intermediate stages; at the moment, we're focused on 10 percent. If that goes off without cogwheels and explosions emanating from the server rooms, we'll do some more detailed planning on later releases. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:50, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

The release is coming up - help us design a banner!
 

Hey all. First-off, a big thanks to everyone who has helped, be it by hand-coding, providing suggestions on tweaks to the tool, or bugtesting. I'm incredibly grateful the community has been this responsive in my first tool development :). We're coming up to a wider release, planning to go from 0.6% to 10% of articles by 3 July. This is going to be a big shift, and as part of it, we're planning a CentralNotice banner to logged-in users so we can advertise as widely as possible. We want everyone to be playing around with this tool.

The question is - what should the banner say? The plan is for whatever text is there to link through to a landing page directing people around the tool - we've got that bit covered - but the actual banner text is (so far) unknown. That's where you guys come in :). We're looking for something in-jokey; something that'll pique people's interest and (hopefully) make them giggle and follow up. The person who designs the winning entry will get some form of reward, as-yet-undetermined, but probably a t-shirt or similar goodie. Simply copy the draft section below, place it in a new section, fill in your suggestion, and wait for feedback :). Hopefully we can get some really great designs! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Your banner goes here
 


 * 1) Username

Jesse V.

 * 1) Jesse V. (talk) 17:04, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) Now this I love. We can't use it (fake message banners would see everyone associated with the project murdered, hideously) but this is precisely the sort of thing I'm talking about - an in-joke that makes whoever reads it doubletake. Keep em coming! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:48, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. What you asking for is difficult: Wikipedia doesn't have a whole lot of memes... Jesse V. (talk) 18:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, it should only be text right? We can't modify the code you provided to add pictures or anything? Just wondering. Jesse V. (talk) 18:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * On the first point; yeah, I know :(. On the second, you can tweak it, but we're trying to keep it small and dinky. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 18:19, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) 👍 (he he… :) benzband  ( talk ) 18:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) because it is a fake message. And not turn offable by CSS hacks (this depends on the implementation). mabdul 01:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Jesse V.
 


 * 1) Jesse V. (talk) 17:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Jesse V.
 


 * 1) Jesse V. (talk) 18:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Love the idea; could we try something more compact? One sentence tops, as few words as possible :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:49, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I find it impossible to do this in one sentence, but two sentences is more feasible. So changed. Jesse V. (talk) 20:37, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What about While we try not to screw up the screwing again... --20:43, 19 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * Good point, but I got inspired in another direction. Thanks! Jesse V. (talk) 20:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You are welcome, nice. Btw, why is this suggestion not under Jesse V. (third)? --21:01, 19 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * I wasn't sure of the format. I'm assuming that the "(first)" and "(second)" labels are the rankings, and that Okeyes is the one to decide where this goes. Jesse V. (talk) 21:29, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Naw, they're just the order in which things were posted; feel free to move this one :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 01:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ and removed misleading numerical labels. Jesse V. (talk) 02:20, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Utar
 

At least I have tried :D. --20:24, 19 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * I like it! A couple of suggestions though: I checked the main page and saw that DYKs begin with "that". Example: "... that Soviet spy satellite Yantar-2K had two film return capsules which could land on the ground or on water?" I'm not entirely sure, but I think the "just" should go before "waiting". Your call, but I think this was a pretty good submission. But good luck getting the T-shirt! Hahahaha! :D Jesse V. (talk) 20:42, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Love it! A bit of rewording, maybe, but the general idea is fantastic. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 01:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, tweaked. Added that, changed dots to ellipsis (An appearing of a new line between dots would be brutal), just moved.
 * Though IMO the move of "just" changes meaning of the sentence - the old design could have also been read as "waiting only for you" and now it is just a sparkle word. I wonder if there is some better way to say "new centralised feedback tool".
 * Any other ideas? --07:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * How about "Did you know...that we've developed a new Feedback Tool? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:39, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, but that's a version of less giggleness. --15:06, 20 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * See, for extra lulz I want to go with "Did You Know...that editcountitis now has a new outlet?" but I think we'd get in trouble ;). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:19, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I would support that :D benzband  ( talk ) 15:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can't imagine your reaction is the one we'd get most of the time :P. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I like the last one much more than all others. Ruslik_ Zero 18:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah this one's good too. benzband  ( talk ) 09:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * So, some variant on this then, guys? Albeit with tweakening to shorten it :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright; with some tweaking and shortening, this is the one we're going for! Thanks to everyone for all their suggestions :) Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:32, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I was hoping it would be something like "Give us feedback on our new way of getting feedback!" or something like that ;^) David  1217  What I've done 01:09, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm getting the Xzibit meme running through my head right now; thanks :P. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:25, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia just taught me something new—I didn't know about that meme :^) David  1217  What I've done 17:48, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is awesome fun, and I constantly torment my coworkers with it (apparently there is a limit on how many emails you can open with "yo dawg" before you start confusing people, though.) Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 18:10, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Back on topic, what banner are we using? David 1217  What I've done 18:30, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Matthewrbowker
 


 * 1) Here's my try. ~ Matthewrbowker Talk to me 23:47, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice! Certainly more upbeat than is the norm :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:32, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Please enable Wiki
Would you please enable Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Wiki? It is one of our most popular articles. 75.166.206.120 (talk) 06:21, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid we're switching to a "lottery" system; we can't specifically enable any individual articles :(. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay I'll be happy to wait, but who still wants v4? 71.212.226.91 (talk) 18:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, pretty much nobody. It's more of a scaling thing, on two fronts - technically and socially.


 * On the technical front, we need to make sure that the system can actually cope with the number of comments that'll be coming in when we deploy to all articles; it's predicted to be almost as many pieces of feedback as we currently have edits. That's a lot of data.
 * On the social front, we need to acclimatise people to using the tool, monitoring feedback and playing around with it, ideally before we ramp up. Otherwise we're asking a lot of people to leave comments that may or may not actually be processed. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:11, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

✅. I just added it to Category:Article Feedback 5 Additional Articles and now AFT5 is on it. :D Jesse V. (talk) 05:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

2 Questions

 * Say a Wikipedian has just written an article, and would like to have AFT5 enabled on it: can s/he make a request? And if so, is there a specific page to do so? benzband  ( talk ) 09:21, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Has anyone suggested AFT5 be covered in the Wikipedia Signpost? benzband  ( talk ) 09:36, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, according to User_talk:Okeyes_(WMF) there is currently no way to add AFT5 to some specific article. --13:28, 21 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * What Utar said :). On the Signpost, it's been covered fragmentarily a lot of times - I'd be happy to see a larger, dedicated article :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been bold and suggested it here. benzband  ( talk ) 15:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Also thinking, if the date is for sure July 3, at motd i could nominate a special motto linking to AFT5 for that day. It's maybe not a big thing but it's at 700+ transclusions. benzband  ( talk ) 15:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That'd be awesome! "Feedback is the breakfast of champions" or something :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:02, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hopefully "feedback" has two syllables so you can have some variation of "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" using feedback instead of apple. I don't know, maybe "those trolls" or "vandals" in place of "the doctor"? --17:14, 21 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * "delisting", with a link to WP:FAR? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:34, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "one feedback a day keeps delisting away"? That doesn't make sense - it should be the other way.
 * Rather "one feedback a day keeps deleting away". --17:47, 21 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * That sounds a tiny bit...apocalyptic ;p. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, i got it at last. I thought FAR is for gaining FA status not losing it. OK. --17:59, 21 June 2012 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 * ✅ at the the special nominations page (putting the doctor down as WP:AFD or WP:FAR but that can be changed easily). You can weigh in the discussions :) benzband  ( talk ) 17:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks like we're having to push back to 17 July; there was a failed deployment a couple days ago, and with Wikimania coming up we don't want to deploy in the middle of the con. Bleh :(. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 03:03, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Feedback (not) for stubs?
I've been visiting a lot of stubs lately and it strikes me that article feedback might not be appropriate for stubs, since stubs are, by definition, not complete. So, it doesn' t make sense to "rate" the page as not complete or well-written. Is there a way to turn off "Rate this page" for article stubs? RudolfRed (talk) 03:12, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That's one of the reasons AFT4 is not perfect. I doubt there is a way to apply AFT5 to stubs, since so far AFT5 is applied randomly. Full deployment is upcoming though! Jesse V. (talk) 03:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

This is another reason v5>v4. 71.212.226.91 (talk) 19:32, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I didn't realize that a new version was coming soon. I just followed the trail of links from the feedback tool, and it said to make comments here.  Glad to hear this will be fixed soon.  RudolfRed (talk) 00:27, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * So am I! A wider release is coming up scary-fast. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Link hard to find
Is anyone else having difficulty finding the link to Special:ArticleFeedbackv5? I haven't been able to remember that, so I've got this really convoluted way of getting to the page which involves going through my Watchlist. The link should be more obvious on wiki. I don't know if you want to add a "see all feedback from this page" on the feedback tool itself, or if you want to add a "Feedback" tab next to "Talk" for each article that has V5 on it. My point is that IMO, there's still a big gap between readers who submit feedback that's squirreled away somewhere, and editors who don't know how to find the feedback. I'm assuming that this all will be fixed when the tool is fully deployed, but I'm just noting this problem now. Jesse V. (talk) 19:09, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Just type WP:AFTS into the search bar (stands for Article Feedback Tool Special page). benzband  ( talk ) 18:33, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * And BTW i think the idea of a "feedback" tab is good, or at least a link on the tool itself. But then i don't know if this would be easy or even possible to set up (this said, i trust the devs have got plenty in store for us, just don't give them any ideas :-) benzband  ( talk ) 18:37, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression the "Feedback" tab was already planned. I'm imagining seeing it next to the "Talk" tab. So it's "Article", "Talk", "Feedback", [blank space], "Read", "Edit", "View History". Don't mean to be a pessimist here, but one consequence I see is that it would allow readers to see their own feedback, which could be abused. Currently the feedback is squirreled away and so vandals don't yet have the satisfaction of seeing their statements published for everyone to see. Over the last few weeks, Talk:Minecraft has been vandalized with gift code offers. I don't want to see that happen for the feedback tool. :) Jesse V. (talk) 22:46, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we had planned the tab; we're having trouble working out a way to do it elegantly, though :). In the meantime there's a link on the talkpage of each page with AFT5 deployed to the specific AFT5 page - see Talk:Battle of Romani, for example. I agree we should be making this a lot more prominent, though. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 03:02, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps if you turned "View history" into simply "History? ........ Then you might have enough room to add the tab nicely.--Coin945 (talk) 16:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Drop-down menu bug
On Special:ArticleFeedbackv5, when I click the drop-down menu labeled "more filters", the menu appears left-justified in-line with "109088 feedback posts since Dec. 2011". Screenshot is here. Is anyone else seeing this? It would be bad if this occurred to lots of people when full deployment comes along. I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SPI, on Google Chrome 19.0.1084.56m, since it's clearly the best web browser. :) Jesse V. (talk) 06:02, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Huh; weird! Okay, I'll bugzilla it :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 03:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Now at this address. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 03:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm getting the same thing (see below). I'm running Safari 5.1.7 on a MacBook Air. David 1217 00:52, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Quality control
I have taken a look at the feedback on various pages and have been thinking about it. Judging by much of it, I think we should somehow encourage quality control in that area. Many of the contributions lack capitalisation, proper punctuation, and reflect a lack of understanding of Wikipedia's principles. I think there should be some link or small box with text that would let people interested in submitting feedback know that while contributions are welcome, clarity of writing is also appreciated, and that Wikipedia can't fulfill every conceivable request. While we already have a "What's this?" link, I think it should be changed to "Feedback rules" or "Please read before contributing".

At the moment, the template Uw-vandalism1 looks like this:


 * Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is invited to contribute, at least one of your recent edits did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

However, I'm not sure if the posting of feedback qualifies as editing, so perhaps, for the sake of legal accuracy, this template (and all similar ones too) should be changed.

Anyway, my main point is that vandalising feedback pages should be declared just as illicit, subject to WP:BLP principles, etc. as (doing the same to) all other Wikipedia pages, and the people interested in using the feedback function should be made aware of this by all means.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 10:36, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, vandalising the feedback page has been declared against the rules; the form links to Feedback guidelines before you hit submit. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That is true, but I think that people should be encouraged to checking it out by means of a more noticeable link. One thing that also worries me is that, in several cases of abuse, the abusers received no warning on their talk pages; people either were content to flag their feedback for abuse or just scroll past it.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 19:26, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We should probably try to impress on people the need to talk to users. However, most feedback comes from IPs, many of which are dynamic - I worry it could just lead to a lot of confused people unsure why they're getting messages about feedback they never wrote. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 03:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We cannot expect feedback writers to use correct spelling and capitalising. What they do is a donation of their time with as little as possible restriction on what they say.  I am surprise how little vandalism or spam there is in the feedback so far.  Does that mean that the edit filters are already working against this?  However one issue I have noticed is that quite a few postings are being marked as abuse when the comments are not abuse at all. For exasmple Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Newt_Gingrich/149665 was automatically tagged due to all upper case, that was not very friendly.  Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Orbital_hybridisation/149531 tagged as abuse to to repeating characters, the feedback was not helpful as we just have someone saying they did not find what they wanted without telling use what it was.  Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Android_(operating_system)/148934 was auto flagged as abuse, but the reason is a mystery.  So what we need is a clear definition of abuse, which is going to be different to what editing an article abusively is.
 * Totally agreed; that front is up to the community, though :). We've internally had a debate - do we write firm guidelines about this sort of thing? How much of the edit filter work do we do? - and my perspective has always been to give as much as possible to the community. I don't think it's appropriate for us to be opening up a world where the WMF starts writing policy, both for legal reasons, and for ethical ones. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Feature request
Hello everyone. I am here to request a feature which can be helpful for this project. I would like to have more filters added in the Articles feedback log besides the current one (Featured,Resolved and all). For example, project specific (if the particular article comes within the scope of any Wikiproject), category specific (class or importance of the article) and others. Please let me know if they already exist. Thanks VIVEK RAI : Friend?  07:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I second this idea, along with time range, or ordinal range selection. It is a pain to just keep clicking more, more, more to see further back in the past. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:32, 30 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The central feedback page is good, but most of the feedback is on subjects I don't know much about. If each wikiproject could have its own central feedback page, showing only feedback on pages related to that project, it would be much more useful. In the same way I would appreciate a personal feedback page showing only feedback on articles in my watchlist. This would give almost the same functionality as filters as mentioned above but might keep the feedback page cleaner. Ulflund (talk) 20:14, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Allow Feedback to be categorized in the contents list. Allow feedback voting/supporting.
-Picking Categories before submitting feedback: When someone submits feedback, then before they submit there feedback they can check the box or boxes of pre established categories. Then there feedback can go in the right category or they can click on the category title that might be next to the box, to see other feedback only in the category there interested in. Then if there idea already has been mentioned then they can just support it or expand on it in there category. -If there idea does not have a catagory:If there idea does not have a category then they can create a new category for there idea. Also, If subcategories are allowed as well to allow forking, that would be helpful as well I think this would avoid overwhelming duplication. -Notify me at my talk page Im only allowed to monitor my talk page only. If there is any activity please let me know on my talk page where it says talk in the next line. 67.160.137.69 (talk) 10:28, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That seems like it would lead to substantial work and strain on the database. At the moment we're looking at 2 million or more monthly pieces of feedback when this racks up to 100 percent; having near-infinite possibilities for categories...ech. not good. We're also at "feature freeze"; we're not adding new components for the time being. If and when this changes I'll bring this idea up with the devs, but I think it unlikely. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:07, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Blank feedback
Firstly let me say, this is a great idea. Secondly, would it be possible to filter out blank submissions (that is no feedback given) as there are quite a few of these. Thanks, Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 08:38, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmn; that should be happening by default. Can you send me a screenshot? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No, its not. Even I am seeing lots of them. -- ɑηsuмaη  ʈ ᶏ ɭ Ϟ  13:44, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Filters not working for me
Whenever I try to filter feedback on Special:ArticleFeedbackv5, it doesn't work. I open the menu, click on, say, "Flagged as abuse", and the filter still says, "More filters", and the pop-up menu appears on the left side of the screen. I'm using Safari 5.1.7 on a MacBook Air. David 1217 20:33, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting! Screenshot? :). . Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's working now... I was having the same problem as Jesse V. David  1217  What I've done 16:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmn; could be a bug fixed in the last deployment. Let me know if it reappears :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:25, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Resolved button
Although mentioned there is no resolved button/link on most of the entries. The resolved only seems to appear if the post is featured. Also perhaps we need a no action required button, or an action required or desirable, to further sort the responses into ones that are worth looking at again by different groups of users here. In addition to abuse, perhaps there could be a praise marking, since there is a fair bit of that here. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:38, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Good ideas all :). I'll bring them up! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 04:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Moving
Hey guys. So, in about 5 hours I'm jumping in a van and moving all my shit (or "shite", I need to practise) to Cardiff - a city apparently referred to as "the diff". Clearly it was built for Wikimedians!

Although awesome for me, this does mean I'm not going to have unfettered internet access until thursday - I'll be relying on a MiFi unit with 5 gigs of data and trying desperately not to exhaust it. So if I'm slow to respond, this is why :). 04:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC) (Okeyes (WMF) (talk))


 * Pob lwc! benzband  ( talk ) 10:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Request for a new section!
Writing the feedback may take a lot of time and hence some readers may avoid it. So, we can have a shorter version of it by asking readers instead to suggest a section that should be added to the article in their opinion. For example, if an article related to a city does not have a section 'Geography', then the reader can suggest that this section be added to the article. It will also help editors as writing full feedback would involve asking for user-specific information (information that only one user is looking for) which is very difficult to find and may not be very useful. But if a new section is suggested, editors can search more broadly. Please give your opinion. Thanks and regards, Vishal14K | Talk 03:14, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, is there any reason why readers can't use the feedback tool to say "could you add some information about this city's geography"? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 12:55, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Informing readers about Wikipedia
I think while asking readers about feedback, we can also display one or two lines about things on Wikipedia thus educating readers about them. Most of the users read only articles and know nothing about WIkiprojects, Portals, Templates, etc. So, we can add a few lines such as 'Do you know what is a portal?' or 'Have you ever used a portal on Wikipedia?' and then inform the reader about them in the next 2-3 lines with examples. Waiting for opinion from others! Thanks and regards, Vishal14K | Talk 03:19, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We could; the problem is twofold. The first is that this distracts from the actual goal of the tool (getting readers to participate actively to improve article content). The second is, well, I'm not sure if most readers even want to be educated about Wikipedia. We've found that the more steps we stick into the tool, the fewer people make it through to the end, and that's when the steps are immediately relevant. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 12:57, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Hiding feedback in Special:Contributions filtered by new accounts
Is there any way of hiding feedback from Special:Contributions when it's filtered by new accounts (this) without having to disable searching for anything in the Wikipedia namespace? NtheP (talk) 21:45, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. How exactly does this related to AFT5? Jesse V. (talk) 22:01, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Because the results submitted by people using the feedback tool show in Special:Contributions and if possible I'd like to ignore them. NtheP (talk) 22:04, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Not to my knowledge, I'm afraid :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks :-( NtheP (talk) 22:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * uhhhm, this is a simple global CSS hack to hide it from pages (like WP:* or Special:*). mabdul 00:59, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * what is? Should "this" have linked to something? NtheP (talk) 04:26, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Mabdul is proposing creating a script you can stick in your CSS file to hide them :). I'm talking him through how to find the code for the extension now, so he knows what to include in the script. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:01, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

No, this shouldn't link to anything. OK, then let's have a look. .mw-special div[class*="articleFeedbackv5"] { display: none; } .mw-wikipedia div[class*="articleFeedbackv5"] { display: none; }

I would test it (and correct it of course) with my public account if somebody can give me some example pages (WP/WT/Special and everything which should be hidden). (I doubt that this is enough and works). mabdul 15:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Try Special:Contributions/69.111.142.228 (picked out of the logs). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:10, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Have the 2 schedule stages been completed?
According to the schedule, on 26th June final release was to be done and on July the 3rd AFTv5 was to be deployed to 10% of enwiki. Have these stages been done? Nikolay95 (talk) 09:48, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Alas, not yet :(. I'll update the schedule now. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. I haven't been following the roll-out of this tool for several months, but I noticed it's recently appeared on more pages.  Can someone link me to the "schedule" so I can update myself on the recent roll-out and plans for upcoming implementation?  Thanks.  --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 07:17, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Article_Feedback_Tool/Version_5 (I really, really need to expand on this; adding it to today's to-do list). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was just on that page last night, but somehow missed the schedule at the bottom of the page.  I have no idea how I missed it, other than the fact that I think I tend to glaze over whenever I land on these type of project pages. lol.  Anyway, I see the schedule now.  Thanks.  --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 15:47, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Love the tool!
I just noticed this on the Higgs boson article that I'm working on right now - it's absolutely amazing! Many thanks to all those involved in the development. I just had a question (which has possibly been answered before): once this tool is fully deployed, how are we going to decide which articles get it? can an editor ask for the feedback tool on a particular article? Also, I think the actual feedback page can be improved a bit readability-wise, but that's a minor point. Cheers,  S Pat   talk 00:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Full deployment means full deployment; every article gets it :). We are looking at ways to build in turning it off, as well - obviously there are going to be circumstances where you want it disabled. What are your readability suggestions? Always willing to listen! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 05:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh I see, so according to the calendar, july 16 is the date for something like a "beta" release? As for readability: for long comments, it's a little bit annoying to go to a separate page to see the details. Is it possible to make the "More" button slide down to show expanded version? (like how Facebook does it for comments) Also, maybe we could make the question prompt ("How could this article be improved?") more prominent, as I saw a few comments which seemed like they were unsure as to what we expect in the feedback. Thanks!  S Pat   talk 16:31, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I also just noticed this. I think it is a great tool, and the sooner it is deployed throughout the whole of Wikipedia the better. Good work. --   Zac   Δ talk! 11:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I expected the post to expand when I clicked on the "More" button, and was a bit annoyed when I was redirected to a new page. I love the tool though, so much better than version 4. Ulflund (talk) 18:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good points! I'll bring them up to the devs tomorrow (tomorrow is my "compile a massive list of proposed tweaks and ship them to the coders" day). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:57, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

A few suggestions & questions
Hi as I said above I think this is a great tool. I just have a few suggestions: I also have a couple of questions: Thanks, Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 11:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Monitors can unmark feedback as abuse - there are a number of feedback items which have been marked as abuse which aren't.
 * After a certain time (say 1 month) feedback which has been marked as not helpful (say over 70%) is removed.
 * From my comment above. Firstly let me say, this is a great idea. Secondly, would it be possible to filter out blank submissions (that is no feedback given) as there are quite a few of these.
 * Do the same rules apply to hiding comments as apply to using WP:REVDELETE or are the rules a little less strict?
 * Does WP:3RR apply to Central Feedback (eg a featuring and unfeaturing war or a hiding and unhiding war).
 * This may have already been answered, but would it be possible to have the "mark as resolved" function available all the time, not just when the feedback is featured. I saw one which was easily fixable so I did, but had to feature it then mark as resolved. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 12:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I suppose we have to work these out by consensus. Currently hiding happens if enough people click abuse. So it is much easier than revdel. I will hide things for BLP violations, pointless offensiveness (vandalism), or information leak (people giving email addresses or children talking about themselves).  I have not yet seen anything looking like a copyright infringement to hide.  There is also nonsense, but not nearly as much as I expected. I have not hidden nonsense, just click as unhelpful. I expect we can worry about 3RR when it happens, but in any case it could be counted as disruption to be followed up by warnings or blocks. I asked for resolved button to appear when not featured too, see above somewhere. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:55, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * On the information leak front - that's the sorta thing that should be OSed as well as hidden (I appreciate you probably already know this; just covering all the bases ;p.) Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:01, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Graeme - but primarily if a monitor hides it :p. Graeme & Okeyes, yeah that's pretty much what I've been doing (to all of what you both said). I've already come across a 3RR around un/feature, but I resolved that pretty quickly and amicably when I saw it happen.
 * Is there a specific place (other than here) for me to make the suggestions? Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 18:04, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Graeme - just had a proper looka at your suggestion above - good idea with more options than just "resolved". Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 18:18, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Can we (or should we) give users talk page warnings vandalism, BLP violations etc in their feedback? Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 18:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we should modify the Uw-vandalism templates for AFTv5. Same system as vandalism—four warnings, then an AIV report. David  1217  What I've done 18:47, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I have already said that and approve of that idea.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 18:58, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * This is most definitely a community matter; we aren't stepping in :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:26, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Comment
I just wanted to comment on the new feedback tool because, unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem to do anything. I admit, I am totally computer-illiterate, so maybe I'm just using it wrong. Is this tool supposed to be just another talk page? What baffles me is that the tool seems to give no feedback at all. It's just a box with a yes and no button, but, when I look for any feedback, there is none. Does it go to some hidden page or something, or do I need to be an admin to look at it? Perhaps some decent instructions on how to work it would help. (The tool is only on one article I watch, the dye laser article, but I've looked at it on others and still come to the same conclusion.)

Personally, I like the older tool. It may or may not be good for getting readers involved, I don't know. What I do know is that, as a writer, it gives me a good feeling to see an article I have expanded begin to get better and better ratings. Seeing that makes me want to stick around and help out on more articles. The older tool was a nice contrast to the talk pages, which can often be kind of a downer to one's self-esteem, listing only problems for the most part. I think that, in designing this new tool, it might be helpful to consider the impact the old one had in retaining good editors and writers as well as focusing on getting new ones involved. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I hope it's helpful. Zaereth (talk) 20:31, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you tried clicking on the yes/no? I think they're testing a new version which has the feedback form on a page accessed by clicking one of those options. And just your opinion or not, it is helpful; I'll try to write a more sensical reply to it soon - about to jump on a plane :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, no I didn't. I never rate my own articles. I just tried the blue link on the right hand side, and searched around for those hidden, Zelda-style links. Thanks for the response, though. I actually think it'd be helpful to maybe incorporate the old into the new or something, but, like I said, I know nothing about computers nor how difficult that would be. Thanks again. Zaereth (talk) 00:17, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll talk to the devs :). I understand that switching to this model may have improved quality, which is a good thing, but I'll see what the precise data says. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:43, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

e-mail address
For some reason people often add their e-mail address - this always leads to oversight (happens a lot). Is it possible to disallow e-mail addresses in the feedback (I remember there being a tag whenever someone adds their e-mail address to article space?) Thanks Cyan  Gardevoir  (used EDIT!) 23:33, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we could; this is something for the edit filter managers to decide, though :). We want to encourage editors to curate the AbuseFilter, firstly for legal reasons (we can't set up too many automated rules or we risk becoming a publisher) and secondly because, well, it'd be stepping on toes. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 01:01, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd suspect this is probably within the purview of the Abuse Filter. If we're happy w/ the performance on the email regex in article space it might make sense to do it here. I'm no longer a filter editor but if this seems like something people here (as in on this talk page) want to do, I'll talk to an editor w/ those powers. Protonk (talk) 04:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There is a related discussion at Wikipedia talk:Article Feedback/Feedback response guidelines, involving an approach that might be less draconian than having the Abuse Filter reject the entire post. It was my idea, and may be totally unworkable. ~ Ningauble (talk) 15:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Warning users
Whenever a user hides a feedback post, could a warning be placed automatically on the talk page of the user who posted the feedback? There would be of course an option to not add a warning. When AFTv5 eventually goes live on every page, there will be so much inappropriate feedback that it would improper to warn each user, even using something like Twinkle. A set of templates could be developed by someone at WikiProject user warnings. David 1217  What I've done 04:21, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support I think this is a great idea and I've left a message at Wikipedia talk:Template messages/User talk namespace asking someone to come up with draft versions. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 04:35, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you Callanecc! David  1217  What I've done 04:48, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Strong Support I asked IronHolds about possible blocks for repeat offenders, too. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 11:44, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support, but with a concern My main problem with the idea is that there could be a conflict between templates. For instance, if somebody vandalises an article and gets a level 1 warning, it's not possible&mdash;or at least pointless&mdash;to send the person another level 1 warning, but about feedback, in case he proceeds to misuse it. Moreover, a level 2 warning stating something like "Please stop abusing the feedback function" would make no sense in such a context. So I maintain that the vandalism templates should be formulated differently to encompass feedback abuse.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 12:37, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Toccata quarta I'm not exactly sure what you're saying (though it's probably me) but vandalising an article and abusing the feedback tool are different things and you would recieve different warnings about it. My suggestion would be that when issuing warnings it work the same as Huggle (Huggle won't warn if there has been no edit since the last warning). My purpose of asking WikiProject User Warnings to design AFTv5 specific templates is so that it is clear what (and where on the Wiki) the editor has done wrong especially since the feedback will be hidden so that the offender won't be able to see it. Does this answer your problem? Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 13:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * My idea is fairly simple. The vandalism templates could be reworded so as to encompass the abuse of the feedback function. Hence
 * Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is invited to contribute, at least one of your recent edits did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you.
 * could become
 * Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is invited to participate, at least one of your recent contributions did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted, removed or flagged for abuse. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you.
 * The person making unconstructive contributions would be informed what is constructive contributing (by means of being directed to the welcome page). So there should be no need for a new template, in my humble opinion.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 15:37, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * By rewording them we have to make new templates. Thanks for the wording - it's pretty much what I had in mind. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 15:48, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if I get you; do you propose creating new templates, or changing the already existing ones? Template:Uw-vandalism1 says the following:
 * This template is used by the standard installation of Twinkle. If you are planning to make major changes to this template or nominate it for deletion, please notify Twinkle's user base and maintainers at Wikipedia talk:Twinkle as a courtesy.
 * On the basis of that I'd say there's nothing insurmountable standing in the way of such a change.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 16:14, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We would be creating new templates but basing them off the current wording. Or at least I guess that is has User:Electriccatfish2 has in mind. It would be bettwe not to change the current ones already being used as this could cause major disruption and would make them less useful for everyone else - plus it would mean going through quite a long process to get the general community's approval. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 16:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually "conflict between templates" sometimes when warning users, so I think we should develop a separate set of templates. However, I would be fine with modifying the  templates.  David  1217  What I've done 16:23, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Support per Electriccatfish2. Dan653 (talk) 19:29, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Seems like a sensible idea. --Chip123456 (talk) 19:48, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Sure! (per electric)  Theopolisme TALK 21:29, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per all the supports above Cyan  Gardevoir  (used EDIT!) 22:24, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Has anyone mentioned the proposed new warnings that are very likely (IMHO) to replace the current set (see the RfC)? A one-size-fits-all warning seems unhelpful to me because there will obviously be a very wide of abuse. MediaWiki should maintain a field for each user that records how many feedbacks have been hidden, with an automatic reset after a month, then disallow more feedback once a threshold is reached. Johnuniq (talk) 23:43, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Your idea about hiding feedback is a good idea. On your point that "A one-size-fits-all warning seems unhelpful to me", I think that a separate set of warnings should be developed for AFTv5 abuse. David  1217  What I've done 23:55, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I may have missed something, but I think the original proposal is to have an automatic warning (user clicks "hide", system hides and warns its author). My point is that there is no one warning that would cover a completely off-topic ramble (a potentially useful editor) and a BLP attack (very unlikely to be a useful editor). Johnuniq (talk) 00:43, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed Dan653 (talk) 00:44, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought you meant by "A one-size-fits-all warning seems unhelpful to me", you meant that using the  templates would be unhelpful, since that's what another editor had suggested. I realize what you really intended your comment to be now. Well, I suppose we could word the level-one templates softly, and then make subsequent ones harder (like what they're doing with the other level-one templates). I also like your idea about locking users out, but I'm wondering about dynamic IPs.  David  1217  What I've done 01:30, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support It also makes it easier to identify vandals who are abusing the hide feedback button. If people keep being notified that their legitimate feedback is being hidden, they will start asking questions. :) Of course, it's important to both link to the feedback in question, as well as the user who hid it. Jesse V. (talk) 01:06, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe only sysops, reviewers, and rollbackers (plus some other obscure user groups) can hide feedback, so I don't think there will be many vandals improperly hiding feedback. David  1217  What I've done 01:30, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes only sysops, reviewers, and rollbackers can hide feedback; and remember it is very easy for sysops to remove review & rollback rights from an account which abuses them - so that shouldn't be a problem (and if it was it would be the same as it is now with incorrect undos and rollbacks in main space). User:Jesse V. - the user who has had their feedback hidden will not be able to see it (as it's hidden), so the warning will have to be a general unconstructive feedback rather than this feedback; and the user who hid it will be the one who's signature is on the warning. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 06:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Guys, I'll look into building this, but I'm not sure when it'll be done :(. We've hit "feature freeze" - we've got a choice between adding new features and making sure it doesn't break the wiki when it goes to 100 percent, and so we're doing the latter :). But I know Fabrice has plans to make a second run of design in a few months: I'll find out the details and get back to you. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:42, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, maybe for now we can warn them semi-automatically using Twinkle or something. David  1217  What I've done 15:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Fine, but we first need to create the templates. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 20:34, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Callanecc left a message at WikiProject user warnings. David  1217  What I've done 05:27, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've started to create them at User:Callanecc/sandbox/AFT5, feel free to leave comments on the talk page User talk:Callanecc/sandbox/AFT5. If you want to help work on them please let me know (shouldn't be a problem I'd just like to know first). Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 08:50, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice, since we aren't getting any response from WikiProject user warnings. I might help a bit with them. David  1217  What I've done 14:40, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Feel free, see message at their talk page. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 15:15, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You guys might want to speak to Maryana or Swalling on the template front? They and a load of editors have been doing some kickass work on making warning templates effective - might be able to provide some hints :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the shout-out Oliver. Per the note from you and Callanecc, Maryana and I are going to take a crack at writing these warnings in line with the style that testing suggested is best. <span style="font-family:Palatino, Georgia, serif;">Steven Walling (WMF) &bull; talk   20:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose Automation I'm all for making it easy to warn editors abusing the feedback system, but an automated warning just because feedback was hidden is a bad idea. It should remain possible to hide feedback without issuing any warnings, and leave warnings up to the hider as the circumstances warrant. At the very least it should default to not warning, as we get too many template warnings being issued without real thought. Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  15:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, my opinion has always been that it should be a box to tick (which defaults to off) when hiding. Feel free to have a look at the user warnings we've come up with, level 1 is quite explanatory. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 06:14, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. A quick tick box would be great.   Vertium  When all is said and done  00:27, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Support with a tick-box to optionally disable auto-warning when hiding a given post. AGK  [•] 12:21, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Watching and deleting comments
This is extremely open to abuse, I understand the need for an initiative to flatten out the oh shit graph, but this currently isn't it. What you're mostly doing is extending an invitation to trolls to provide "feedback", I jsut went through all the feedback on an article I edit regularly and found one useful comment in about 300. The rest were mostly along the lines of "penis" or "buttsex", aside from a few which would be normally deleted as personal attacks or libel if posted on a talk page, except.. I can't seem to delete them, even as an admin, only "flag as abuse", "hide", which presumably means everyone else can still see it, or "request oversight". Sysops should absolutely be given the power to remove these comments if they are purely disruptive, under similar criteria to the revision deletion ones.

What's more, there's no way to add these pages to a watchlist. It's hard enough for us all to watch articles and talk pages to keep them clear of copyright violations, libellious material, BLP violations, vandalism and shit, and now we have to watch this as well. There should be a way of "new feedback posted" coming up on our watchlist when new feedback is posted about an article so that we can read it asap (on the off chance that the feedback is actually useful) or delete it or report it to an admin if it's abusive.

With those two changes, thereby getting enough people actually patrolling the tool, it might end up being useful. - filelake shoe &#xF0F6;  09:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Monitors (admins, reviewers and rollbackers) can hide comments (pretty much RevDelete), on the right hand side of the feedback there is a list of functions one of which is "Hide this comment" - this makes it viewable only to monitors. Have a look at this page for moe info: Article Feedback/Help/Monitors. Regarding watching a particular article's feedback, you can't "watchlist" (as with any other "Special" page) it but going to this page will do a pretty good job: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Justin_Bieber (obviously replacing "Justin Bieber" the article you want to watch). The best way to watch what is comming in is here, which shows everything. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 11:20, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * What Callanecc said :). If hiding meant everyone else could see it, it, er, wouldn't be hiding ;p. The watchlist functionality is a great idea I've heard brought up - we should definitely discuss it at our end and try to include it. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, fair enough - maybe I was confused because it looked a bit too much like Youtube) Just read the discussion above so hiding is clear. I wonder if the feedback could appear on a watchlist via a log, or if there could be a "watched pages" option on the central tool page. - filelake shoe &#xF0F6;  11:46, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeedy; I'm loathe to do it as talkpages are (with them watched automatically if you watch the associated article page?) because I think that'd cause a load of problems. Nobody wants 900 feedback pages as well as their other stuff. But I'll see what we can do with independent watchlisting. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:55, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Okeyes what about a possible watchlist function on the Justin Bieber example - then it's only the one page. Obviously I don't know the 'behind the scences' stuff (that is whether it's possible). Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 13:12, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * A grand idea; I've brought it up with the devs :). I can't promise it immediately, as it's quite a large undertaking (because the AFT5 pages are special pages, and we really don't want it interlinked with the watchlist function for each article). But we're talking through possible ways to get something like this in place as soon as is possible. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:43, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Completely rethinking the feedback function?
In light of the thread above this one, I have decided to propose a substantial alteration of the feedback function&mdash;one that occurred to me several days ago. When somebody offers feedback stating "Thank you, I found what I was looking for", nothing is gained from it; at best, it will make a few editors happy. Moreover, the amount of feedback that Wikipedia is supposed to be receiving in the near future will allegedly be the same as the amount of edits it gets on average every day.

However, this number could be substantially reduced by changing the feedback box from

"Did you find what you were looking for? Yes No"

to

"Do you think this article lacks important information or could otherwise be improved? If so, please let us know!"

As I said before, positive feedback, while pleasant for some, does not assist in improving articles and only consumes space.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 16:51, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I think they did some research and found that the design they're using now works best. Also, Okeyes (who is the person for this) said that they're not adding any more features for a few months. David  1217  What I've done 17:56, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Fine, but I have a hard time believing we are benefiting from congratulatory feedback.&mdash;Toccata quarta (talk) 03:28, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. David  1217  What I've done 03:34, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I would. As the primary editor of the Folding@home article, I appreciate congratulatory feedback. We are volunteers, so that's about as much as we get in return. Still, constructive feedback would be better. I'm still waiting for AFT5 to show up on that article though... Jesse V. (talk) 03:49, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Positive feedback does not usually help to improve a given article, but it can give the people who wrote the article a feeling of encouragement, and it also can give the person who leaves feedback a warm feeling toward Wikipedia. So it is not worthless. Looie496 (talk) 15:46, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. A lack of positive feedback and communications has actually been repeatedly pointed to as one of the reasons there isn't really much of an incentive for quite a few people to stay around. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:44, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, "featuring" actionable feedback, rather than complimentary feedback gives us the best of both worlds. Readers can compliment the work done, readers can suggest material to add, and then their suggestions may be featured, as actionable.  O liver   T wisted (Talk) (Stuff)  00:57, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

"Flag as abuse"
It seems like when I flag feedback as abuse on a feedback subpage (for example, Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Facebook), the flag does not show up on my log page. However, when I flag the feedback as abuse on the main special page (Special:ArticleFeedbackv5) it shows up. I'm not sure if you guys know about it already or if it has been said already, but I'd thought I'd share it. --   Luke      (Talk)   16:56, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Shows up both times for me—I'm using Safari 5.1.7 on Mac OS X 10.6.8 on a MacBook Air. What about you? David  1217  What I've done 17:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm using Firefox 13.0.1 on a Mac OS X 10.5.8, MacBook Pro. --   Luke      (Talk)   17:58, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * By "my log page", I assume you mean the "logs" link in the sidebar of your userpage. David  1217  What I've done 18:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's correct. --   Luke      (Talk)   18:04, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess Okeyes will file a bug when he comes around. David  1217  What I've done 18:06, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * In addition, I cannot hide posts, request oversight, like or dislike the feedback, or feature the post. --   Luke      (Talk)   02:09, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait—you can't do any actions with the feedback, or the actions don't show up in your user log? David  1217  What I've done 03:09, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't do any feedback functions on any feedback subpage. It works on Special:ArticleFeedbackv5 and it logs my actions. --   Luke      (Talk)   03:25, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, still works for me (it logs too). David  1217  What I've done 04:37, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've tried it on Safari and it doesn't work on subpages too. --   Luke      (Talk)   15:08, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Luk3 :). As far as I'm aware it's a new bug; I'll shove it in Bugzilla. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Any chance you could email me compare-and-contrast screenshots? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * E-mailed. --   Luke      (Talk)   16:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:44, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Now tracking on Bugzilla :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Accidently flag this as a abuse. I now see that it's an irreversible action. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 11:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sort-of :(. We're actively discussing ways to eliminate or void flags - we'll see what happens. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Hiding stuff
Is it like revision deletion or like undoing edits? Also, I want mouse-over explanations of what all the things do. I demands it, or something, except for the fact that I'm not sure I have any right to demand anything, or even necessarily care. Hi? Hi. How are you? -— Isarra ༆ 18:27, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's like RevDeleting it—only admins, rollbackers, and reviewers (plus some other specialized AFTv5 groups) can see it. As for explanations, these two pages may help. David  1217  What I've done 23:24, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * As David said, this page will provide more information about the functions you have (as a rollbacker): Article Feedback/Help/Monitors. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 02:08, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * +1 :) Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's certainly an interesting way to go about things, but on the other hand, most of the feedback is really just useless. Ratings are all very well and fine, and nice ones are indeed quite lovely if it happens to be an article one has worked on, but only the more specific comments are all that useful useful when looking to actually work on an article from the feedback, so if hiding is like deletion, perhaps there should be another button for the just useless but not disruptive stuff, not necessarily to remove it, but to allow it to be sorted out when need be? Because this is all like eeEEAAuuugh currently. So much stuff everywhere and all over the place and who knows how even to get through it all, or what to do with it, or find the right page to say what is what... there are way too many pages about this thing. Geep. -— Isarra ༆ 02:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Isarra, there is the option to mark feedback as unhelpful/helpful and useful feedback should be Featured
 * So featuring isn't just special stuff, but all of the generally useful? Then why is there a helpful thing at all? And if the unhelpful thing automatically hides the feedback once smacked enough, why can't we just hide it immediately? I don't get it. -— Isarra ༆ 13:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If it is marked as abuse a number of times it is automatically hidden, if it is marked as unhelpful then it is just marked as unhelpful (and thr same with marking as helpful). If there are specific details on what to improve in the article (which you believe to be true and useful) you Feature. If it is helpful or only generally helpful (such as "more images please") mark it as helpful (but don't feature as it isn't specific). Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 14:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So what is abuse? And how are we supposed to know any of this? And don't say to go read the documentation; there's too much of it and all of it I looked at was terrible. Assuming I looked at any of it; a good design doesn't require any documentation. -— Isarra ༆ 16:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There are several discussions attempting to develop guidance on the issue at Wikipedia talk:Article Feedback/Guidelines, most recently the Hide none actionable comments? section. Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  16:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't need guidance at all. That's the problem. -— Isarra ༆ 18:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reminding me to file the tooltips bug, Isarra :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Mark as Resolved at Central Feedback Page
Hello,

I am trying to mark a feedback post as resolved, but unfortunately it requires that I mark it as featured before I do so. I am not sure if this is intentional or if it is a bug, but if it is intentional, please note that some feedback does not constitute "specific tips and detailed ways to improve an article", as is required for it to be featured, but can still be resolved. Thanks, Gold   Standard  18:23, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly sure that it's on purpose. David  1217  What I've done 20:44, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we have suggested this somewhere above, it's in the pipeline for the next version/update. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 02:57, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Automated flagging as abuse
It seems that the software is configured to be overly zealous in marking feedback as abuse, for example. It would be more helpful if the automatic abuse flagging was more selective and targeted at things like WP:BLP violations or other feedback that there is urgency to remove. Monty <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  15:02, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, is there a way to decline an abuse report, for a case where the feedback is clearly not abuse? Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  15:03, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, not sure, although I'd like to know that too. David  1217  What I've done 15:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * What is doing the automatic flagging? Is it an edit filter? Which ones? If so we need to change some. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * All it says is "Auto-flagged by Article Feedback V5 10 hours ago", with a link to Article Feedback Tool/Version 5/Help that doesn't mention the functionality. I had presumed it was a feature of the feedback system, is the edit filter able to interact with feedback like that? Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  22:30, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's several edit filters: 458, 460, 461, 463, 472, 473, and 474. David  1217  What I've done 22:34, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, any edit filter managers are welcome to tweak things :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:49, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I would suggest switching 458 to not autoflag, that one seems to be generating the most false positives. Also, for future development, it would be useful if the filter triggering the automated flagging was recorded with the feedback. Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  16:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Really great point; I'll add it to the bugzilla list. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:09, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes please drop 458 as flagging abuse. Also when we look at the details of abuse say at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=472 and then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AbuseLog/7149099, it would be good to get a link to the feedback page so that we can quickly hide base on filter results, and not just abuse flagging.  Then we could get filters that do nothing apart from list in the filter log, but yet may need extra checking.  For the email buster http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=463 we could then quickly request oversight.  Also there could be a filter for phone numbers. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:04, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So on the details of abuse front; instead of, for example, " performing the action "feedback" on Stephen King" it would provide a link to the actual problematic post? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:01, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Apologies for the quietness!
Hey guys

Sorry for the delay; I'm just on my way home from Wikimania now :). I should land in London at about 9am BST Tuesday, and be home to Cardiff before the US west coast wakes up (albeit only just). Once that happens, I'm going to work through the discussion backlog and start forwarding things to the relevant staffers as fast as possible :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

RFC on Guidelines for Monitors
I have recently initiated an RFC to draft guidelines for those monitoring Feedback. Your comments would be appreciated at Wikipedia talk:Article Feedback/Guidelines. Monty <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  21:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Nav Bar
I'm working on the above navbar to help navigate AFT related pages as there are a bunch of subpages and its not always easy to find links to the right one. Any comments/improvements would be appreciated. Monty <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  23:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice, that will certainly improve ease of navigation. David  1217  What I've done 23:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It'll make it easier for other reviewers, myself included, to get around easier. --   Luke      (Talk)   02:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * as well. Very nice! Jesse V. (talk) 04:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * the fact that we're all going to get killed by a mob for using pseudo-facebook templates. Also the navbar is great :D. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:01, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Very cool, thank you, Monty845! Excellent idea. I added a couple more links, and arranged similar items closer to each other, using consistent terminology. Great improvement, much appreciated! Fabrice Florin (WMF) (talk) 01:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Most relevant requests?
Could there please be a sort option for the most relevant comments from people who didn't find what they were looking for? You can leave the frowny faces off that, if possible, please. I already know wikipedians are spectacular, and while it's great to have statistics quantifying exactly how spectacular, I don't need to see the majority of feedback reminding me all the time, especially if I'm just browsing for improvement ideas. 71.212.249.178 (talk) 06:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So, two filters, then? Most relevant+not including happy people? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:02, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, am I missing how to do that? I can't see how to remove the (~88%) happy responses. 75.166.200.250 (talk) 08:48, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm genuinely not sure if it's possible :S. I'll talk to people! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind many of the happy face comments do also offer suggestions for improvement. The percentage is definitely less though. Dcoetzee 21:28, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Feedback Box Visibility
Hi All. I think the feedback tool works great but that too few readers even notice it, especially on longer articles. I think very few readers would even think to scroll all the way to the bottom, past sometimes 200+ references, navboxes, external links, etc. to provide feedback. I know the floating "Improve this page!" box was not popular, but there must be another way to make the tool more visible. Perhaps at the top of the page there could be a "Help improve this page" that would anchor to the end of the page, similar to the "View Reader Feedback" link on the talk page. I know that asking for feedback at the start of the page seems counter-intuitive, since readers will not yet have read the article, but there has to be some way to advertise the feedback tool. Thanks for all your hard work on this. Best, epicAdam(talk) 15:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We've actually tried experimenting with things like this. The amount of feedback which came in was overwhelming - we're looking for 1.6-2 million posts a month after full deployment just using the bottom widget. So more prominent placement could cause a lot of volume issues, both technically and socially :(. It was an idea we put a lot of effort into testing, however. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand the technical limitations, but keeping the feedback tool hidden from view is contrary to the stated goals to encourage readers to help improve articles. On one hand we want their help, but then obscure ways for them to provide it. I live in Washington and government bureaucrats couldn't have invented a better system to simultaneously invite and obscure public comments! -epicAdam(talk) 16:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not about technical limitations - it's "last time we added a tab near the top of the article that linked to it we got so much feedback that, if we used such a system on all articles (and we plan to release to all articles), we'd be getting 3.3 million pieces of feedback a month". We've only got 80,000 editors, optimistically; I don't think we can expect them to review all or even most of the feedback, and it seems disingenuous to deliberately make it more prominent for readers if we know that the feedback most likely won't get handled. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "I live in Washington and government bureaucrats couldn't have invented a better system to simultaneously invite and obscure public comments" I find that rather hard to believe (the latter!). I mean in general we kinda have to think through this. What does a persistent feedback template at the top of the page signify? What does it allow? For me it indicates that we don't want people to actually read the article before commenting. As for a floating element, the community would riot (and I would join in) if we crapped up wikipedia pages with floating boxes which moved as you scrolled. More generally, I'm not sure how worried we should be if not all readers see the feedback page. Not all readers want to give feedback (with or without the page)! Not all readers read the whole page and that's probably ok. Protonk (talk) 04:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

"View activity"
On each piece of feedback, there's a line that says "view activity". The link doesn't work, and it seems like it should. However, when I click "Details", it shows "Activity (1 action) There has been no activity on this post" even though it also says that someone marked it as helpful. Is this supposed to happen? Windows 7 64-bit, latest version of Chrome. Jesse V. (talk) 15:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * When I view feedback, that button tells me who performed an action. If I view the same feedback while logged out, the button isn't even there. It may be that information is restricted to editors with the ability to hide feedback (admin/rollback/reviewer), but that is just a guess. Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  15:22, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's interesting because I was logged in. The documentation says that some of the controls are hidden from readers but shown to editors. Jesse V. (talk) 15:29, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There is a bug to do with actions not showing - hopefully it'll be dealt with soon. I have a check-in with the team both tomorrow and next monday, and will raise this issue. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Marking the same feedback unhelpful multiple times
Without noticing that I was also the previous editor to mark the feedback unhelpful, I marked Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Annie_John/168500 uhelpful a second time. It appears to count my second marking as if it was from another editor, though the log reveals it was me both times. Is it intended functionality to allow repeated marking by the same person? Monty <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  19:41, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oooh. Definitely not! I'll ask the devs what's going on. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:15, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If you click it enough times it should automatically hide it! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's what "mark as abuse" is for. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:36, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Can't add pages to watchlist
I can't see anyway of monitoring specific or groups of pages for example via a watchlist. This is a managability problem longer term as feedback won't get seen by those that are most interested to see the feedback. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:35, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I will second this. I will have no idea if someone leaves feedback about my articles unless they appear on my watchlist. I can't just manually go to all my articles' feedback pages to check up on their status. Reywas92 <b style="color:#45E03A;">Talk</b> 00:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for bringing this up! We have had many requests for this feature, and are considering making it available for this release, either integrated within the watchlist page, or as a separate version of the central feedback page, personalized to only show feedback for articles in your watchlist. We are now estimating the development required to see if we can squeeze it in for this release. Stay tuned, and thanks again for your suggestion! Fabrice Florin (WMF) (talk) 01:14, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It should definitely be an option on user watchlists to pull up feedback on pages that you have on your watchlist, Sadads (talk) 22:18, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Location of link to an article's feedback
I love the new feedback, but it is a little bit of a hassle to have to click through to the talk page to be able to click to the feedback page. It would be very helpful to have a link to the feedback page on the main article, perhaps only for logged in users or those with a special setting. It could be at the top of the page or on the bottom next to the feedback box. Currently a link to feedback only appears after you leave a comment, but I want to quickly link to it from the article without having to do so. Thanks, Reywas92 <b style="color:#45E03A;">Talk</b> 00:51, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your kind words and good suggestion, Reywas92! We initially wanted to remain discrete about the feedback page link, until we see that editors are using it regularly. Once we can confirm that it is used widely, we would certainly be open to making that feedback page link more prominent by adding it to the article pages themselves. But space is very limited on the article pages, so we'd have to find an appropriate location for it that is not distracting to other users. We'd love suggestions on where to place it, when the time comes. There is some room for a small text link right under the article title, which we have experimented with before, but it didn't get noticed much. Though that may be OK for your purposes. Let's continue that discussion as we keep learning how this tool is being used by the community. Cheers Fabrice Florin (WMF) (talk) 01:51, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I would place it next to the "view history" link. Ulflund (talk) 19:33, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * IMO, it would be more appropriate to place it to the right of the Talk tab. Jesse V. (talk) 16:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's my feeling. On Vector, at least, things are grouped by their purpose. You get "page" and "talk" which are links to distinct places, and "edit" "history" "watchlist", which are actions or links to metadata. AFT5 is a distinct page - I'd put it with the others. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 18:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Can't mark a feedback item resolved until you feature it
The resolved option does NOT show until an feedback item is featured. Took me a while to fathom out what was different. Having to feature before you could resolve seems like a bug. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good observation, SunCreator. The reason we kept 'Mark as Resolved' under 'Feature this post' was that we didn't want to create more work for editors. We were worried that if we put it up at a higher level, editors would feel compelled to use it all the time, which might increase their workload. So we settled for this solution as a compromise. However, if we find that folks really prefer that tool to be separated from the 'Feature' tool, it may be possible for us to do this later on. Let's observe how it is being used, and make a decision about this in coming weeks. Sound good? And thanks so much for leaving such a nice note on my profile, SunCreator. That was very thoughtful of you, and is much appreciated! Fabrice Florin (WMF) (talk) 01:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks, I'm glad it operation was intentional, it just wasn't as I expected. And yes, observing it for a few weeks is fine with me. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 02:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

What articles are covered by the feedback tool?
I noticed some article have a hidden categories such as Category:Article Feedback 5 and Category:Article Feedback 5 Additional Articles, but there are some articles with the feedback tool in addition to such categories. For example Adwaita has the feedback => Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Adwaita. So, what articles are covered by the feedback tool? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you asked, SunCreator. We are in the middle of a gradual deployment of Article feedback v5 on the English Encyclopedia. Right now, AFT5 is only enabled on 5% of articles, plus the two hidden categories you cited. Next week, we'll bump up to 10%, then do some code re-factoring and scaleability work to prepare for 100% release in September.


 * In the meantime, you are welcome to add Category:Article Feedback 5 Additional Articles to articles that you'd like feedback on. This will add a feedback form at the bottom of your articles, with a corresponding feedback page where you can see all reader comments. To view it, go to the article talk page, then click 'Reader feedback'.


 * The rest of the articles are part of a lottery system which enables Article feedback based on the last few digits of the article ID. Each week, we increase the percentage of possible lottery winners, and will be going from 10% to 100% in the next couple months.


 * It's an exciting time for us, to finally be able to bring you this new tool, after months of development. We hope that this will help editors make better articles -- and give readers a voice in Wikipedia. Fabrice Florin (WMF) (talk) 06:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool! Adding to Category:Article Feedback 5 Additional Articles shortly! Regards, SunCreator (talk) 10:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Question
Um, it's interesting, but (sorry) what exactly does this do? Who uses the data? Is it possible to respond to someone? TheSilentJay (talk) 12:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We use the data. About 1% of the people commenting will demonstrate the capacity for intelligent thought and suggest something meaningful. Then we can make those changes to the article. Specs112   t   c  12:23, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually we found in testing that 40 percent plus of feedback was useful (it depends on the metric you use - anywhere between 40 and 60). The idea is that this feedback will be useful to editors, who can incorporate it into articles (or, if it isn't useful, scrub it). Feedback walkthrough may be useful :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I made up/exaggerated 1% based on my personal experience of handling feedback. Specs112   t   c  15:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 1% is roughly the percentage of feedback which if acted upon could transform an article. But the 40% figure seems like a reasonable approximation of feedback which either suggests some sort of improvement, or raises a valid point. And even if those figures are wildly optimistic, the more time unconstructive editors spend trying to undermine the feedback system, the less time they are spending on vandalising article space. —WFC— 01:07, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Remove the oversight requested and oversight denied filters?
After playing with the feedback tool for 3 minutes I realized I can filter for oversight requested and oversight denied. These comments are hidden, but still available for any rollbacker to view. This is completely different from the way oversight is handled through the rest of the encyclopedia. Please remove these filters or make them avaiable to oversighters only. Yoenit (talk) 10:50, 18 July 2012 (UTC) Above copied from the Guidelines tak page (see link).
 * No it's exactly the same of Overight within Wikipedia. As with anything if Oversight has been requested but not yet granted the material continues to be displyed, but there might be an argument to remove the filter (but not the actual feedback item). If Oversight is declined then there is no reason to have it anything more than hidden (and available to Monitors). Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 12:48, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure; I think what Yoenit means is that it isn't standard for me, as a non-oversighter, to be able to pull up a list exclusively containing "things people think are problematic". I agree this is a problem, but iirc it's going to be a bit difficult to fix - I'll ask again and see what the reply is. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Being able to see the declined oversight requests is useful, it that it educates reviewer as to what oversighters are rejecting, and hopefully will result in fewer unecessary oversight requests. I could understand restricting the ability to filter for pending requests to those with oversight though. Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  16:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * (That's what I meant - sorry should have been clearer). On removing access to the filter I don't think it's that important, if we can't trust the monitors not to use or disclose (etc) any of the info then can we trust them to monitor it at all. Plus most of the feedback which has had Oversight requested is recent so you would quite easily come across it if going through the recent hidings. I think the most effective way to do it, would be that requesting Oversight effectively oversights it until an Oversighter declines the request (at which stage it goes back to being just hidden). Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 16:28, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That would work, though it remains unclear to me why hiding the filter group to a certain set of users would not be easier (no idea about the code behind this filter). I disagree with Monty about the declined requests though. That group contains a lot of borderline cases: material that is bad, but just falls short of the oversight criteria. Those are not comments you want to focus attention on, even for educational reason. The whole reason oversight handles everything by email rather than an ANI style board is to avoid drawing attention to potential oversight issues. The amount of damage or harm that can come from such a "bad" comment is directly proportional to the amount of attention it receives. Yoenit (talk) 16:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It seems like a no-brainer to me that if we (i.e. the WMF, or the functionaries, or whatever) have evidence that there is privacy-related info being made public, we have a responsibility to remove it from view - or at least, make it not-simple to find - until it's been evaluated. Currently for non-AFT oversights, a user sends in a request privately to the Oversight queue, so we're alerted to it but the rest of the community isn't given a giant pointer to "HERE IS WHERE SOMEONE MIGHT BE BEING OUTED!!" or whatever. In this AFT implementation, a user sends in a request publicly, and anyone who wants to can go view the "oversight requested" filter to see all the juicy bits before they're suppressed. Seems problematic to me; a more reasonable implementation would be to either auto-hide any OS-requested feedback pending OSer evaluation of it (when we review it, we can oversight, decline oversight, hide, and undo hiding, iirc, so a temporary hide-pending-review is perfectly reversable), or if that's too extreme, to at least not put the OS-requested feedback in a category that identifies it as possibly-privacy-related to all and sundry. Declined oversight requests, rather than being singled out into a category, ought to just go back into the regular feedback pool, to address the same problem of "Oh hey look, something someone thought was juicy!" A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 18:23, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * On re-reading my comment, I think that when I use "auto-hide" here, I actually meant something like "auto-temporary-OS" - a level at which reviewers can't see it. Which sounds a lot weirder and hardcore-r. I'll settle for not putting requested OSes into a "here's the juice!" category. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 18:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good points all :). I'm actively discussing it with the team - hiding these things was my preferred option, too. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 04:12, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Alrighty; added to the to-do list :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

What's this, Learn more link
Hi. Currently on the feedback tool, as displayed at the bottom of an article, if the user clicks on "What's this?" then "Learn more" they are taken to Article_Feedback/Help/Editors which is a bit of an overwhelming wall of text. Instead I think they should be taken to Article_Feedback which is a more friendly page to land on. Article_Feedback is the page linked to by the current banner, "Did you know… that there is a new feedback tool for Wikipedia?". --Pelago (talk) 14:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a really great idea! At the time we didn't have the landing page or tutorials or whatnot - I'll talk to the devs. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Now tracking; thanks for the suggestion :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 04:10, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Unflag
Might it be possible to allow monitors to remove abuse flags for comments which are not problematic. I have seen comments flagged as false positives from the autoflagger, in bad faith by editors, or as good faith mistakes which are not problematic at all. It would be helpful if people could decline these flags, especially as some of them are actually useful. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 15:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes yes yes! Strong support. (Especially because of the autoflagger.) David  1217  What I've done 15:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We could probably add that. Another option we're looking at would have "unhiding" feedback automatically void all flags - would this work, do you think? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait, so then you'd have to hide the feedback, then unhide it, which would "purge" it of any negative actions? David  1217  What I've done 15:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You could if you wanted, but the "mark as abuse" tool works as "when something is marked as abuse five times, it is automatically hidden". So you'd then unhide it. Until it's been hidden, well, the abuse flags aren't doing any harm :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. It would still be nice to be able to unflag comments that were helpful, though. David  1217  What I've done 15:48, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a good point. I worry about adding too many buttons, really; the interface could become very overwhelming and clogged very fast :S. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of removing abuse flags when something is unhidden, certainly. I still think that being able to unflag would be helpful, though. Currently, wrongly flagged comments clog up the flagged comments filter, making it harder for monitors to go through that and hide inappropriate feedback. If flags could be removed, then once a flagged comment was reviewed and deemed acceptable, it wouldn't have to be reviewed by every subsequent monitor. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 16:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ItsZippy outlines the advantage of being able to unflag abuse before its hidden well. Ideally every feedback flagged as abuse even once should be reviewed to see if hiding/oversight is justified, but without the ability to unflag there is gonna be duplicated work. Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  16:04, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Really great points; I'll bring them up. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:28, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep; a "void flags" button for monitors is right on our to-do list :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:36, 24 July 2012 (UTC)