Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Baker Demonstration School

Just as an aside, middle schools in the US are secondary schools, but are *lower* secondary schools and not usually eligible as per the criteria. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:03, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

While on a lark I searched Google Books for anything about this and it seems there is a page in a secondary sourced book that talks about the school: The book's index points to the school info on being page 58. If there's another secondary source page like this from a different book I think the article could be resurrected as per WP:GNG. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:20, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Schultz, Rima Lunin and Adele Hast. Women Building Chicago 1790-1990: A Biographical Dictionary. Indiana University Press, January 1, 2001. ISBN 0253338522, 9780253338525. found in these search results

Also talked about a potential issue with the school possibly having to move... WhisperToMe (talk) 19:30, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think those are enough to meet WP:GNG, but I wouldn't have any objection to re-opening the AfD for another week to give people time to evaluate the new sources. Pinging User:78.26 and User:TonyTheTiger as the only other participants in the AfD to see what they think.  -- RoySmith (talk) 19:39, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree, it doesn't seem to meet GNG, but if an article can be rescued I'm all for it. (details: the Tribune piece is borderline, both in depth of coverage and that it might be considered merely a "local" source in this context.  I can't see the book, unfortunately, but the single-page entry would indicate it is a casual mention.  If there's a paragraph about it I'd possibly change my mind.)  HOWEVER, through a search at Newspapers.com, I get a lot of results, and not all from Illinois.  This isn't your ordinary middle school.   78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 20:04, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm interested in the newspapers.com stuff! BTW I believe a single page can be significant coverage so long as it talks about the school in some level of detail. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:40, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll try to clip some of the articles, as a kind editor did several times for me before I had access. I'll post to your talk page unless others want me to post here.   78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 12:03, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Posting here would keep things in one place. -- RoySmith (talk) 12:41, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * You got it! I'll try to do this today or tomorrow.   78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 13:46, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Re: the book page I have a request at RX WhisperToMe (talk) 17:24, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Newspaper.com clippings
Before I do a whole bunch of these, let's see if I can figure out what I'm doing:
 * Northwest Herald (Woodstock, Illinois) Sat, Dec 17, 2005 Page 38 and

, Would you please confirm you can view (with a reasonable degree of readability) the above links? Thanks! 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 16:03, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The first one is "Red Seal chosen as partner to expand Baker School". I'm guessing your concern is that you've got a Newspapers.com account and aren't sure if the URLs are only visible you?  Try opening them in an incognito window to see them as somebody without an account will see them.  -- RoySmith (talk) 16:07, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I can view both links :-) WhisperToMe (talk) 16:11, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Brilliant idea, of course! I can access them incognito, so I'll add more as I find them pertinent.   78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 16:13, 1 August 2019 (UTC)


 * More***
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 * - not much in the article, but the Time magazine article referenced here might be worth something.
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not related to newspapers.com:
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78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 23:08, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment The school does get some borderline press. I glanced at the first six above. The annual science event and the association with National Louis University are interesting. Any mention of the science event outside of Chicago (Even Indiana or downstate) would get my consideration for support.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:28, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

I received the following: WhisperToMe (talk) 15:30, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * (ping me if you want it)
 * Page 58 states that Edna Dean Baker and Clara Belle Baker, two sisters, founded the school, originally only a preschool in 1918 in what was then the National College of Education (NCE). The northern suburbs received their first preschool in 1926, when the Demo School moved to Evanston. The Guidance Center for children with learning disorders was created in 1929 with Edna Baker and NCE educational staff member Louise Farwell Davis cooperating in the establishment. The school used the "learn by doing" educational style for all grade levels.
 * TLDR: There's at least one paragraph in the encyclopedia article dedicated to the school.
 * WP does not cite other encyclopedias in general. An encyclopedia is a summary of secondary sources. Go straight to the source if you can.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:31, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia policy pages say that encyclopedias from reputable publishers may be cited.
 * 1. Reliable_sources states: "Reputable tertiary sources, such as introductory-level university textbooks, almanacs, and encyclopedias, may be cited."
 * 2. No_original_research: "Reliable tertiary sources can be helpful in providing broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources, and may be helpful in evaluating due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other. Some tertiary sources are more reliable than others, and within any given tertiary source, some entries may be more reliable than others."
 * My understanding is that specialist encyclopedias from reputable publishers are better than generalist encyclopedias, and obviously it's best to go directly to the original source. However often we don't have access (immediate or long term) to those direct sources, and for now perhaps it's good to use a specialist encyclopedioa in this way. I would imagine then, that if this specialist encyclopedia article discusses Baker, what it cites could discuss Baker in more detail.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 01:22, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * This is a subject of borderline notability. You don't want to source it with sources of borderline reliability, if you can avoid it. I am suggesting that you find better sources.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:46, 23 September 2019 (UTC)