Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Cam Wilson

Copied discussion from Cam Wilson AfD

 * Speedy delete as recreation of previously deleted content. Proto t c 10:03, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * only applies if the deleted page was deleted as a result of a VfD, not SD. Unfortunately. Tonywalton | Talk
 * So you're saying that if an article is deleted under A7, and it's recreated, it can't be speedy deleted without coming to AfD? Zoe 19:41, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Basically, yes. Encephalon provided a useful conversation about this on his talk page below. Hope that clears things up; I found it helpful, anyway. --Blackcap | talk 19:57, September 1, 2005 (UTC)


 * WP:CSD G4 ("A substantially identical copy, by any title, of a page that was deleted according to the deletion policy.") says:  This does not apply to content in userspace, content that was speedily deleted, or to content undeleted according to undeletion policy. If the previous deletion was a speedy (under any criterion, not just A7), it gets at least one more shot. Or even more - it could be speedied over and over again. However if it's reposted after a VfD voted "delete", then it merits a db-repost tag under CSD G4 and a deletedcontent tag on the deleted page to stop it being recreated.. What happens if, as seems likely with this article, it gets speedied due to an overwhelming consensus to speedy prior to the VfD period being up is worrying; does that count as a speedy (so db-repost doesn't apply) or a VfD delete (so db-repost does apply)? Tonywalton | Talk 20:02, 1 September 2005 (UTC)


 * From WP:CSD:
 * ''There are a few, limited cases where admins can delete Wikipedia pages "on sight" and without consensus at Wikipedia:Articles for Deletion or Wikipedia:Non-main namespace pages for deletion. Non-admins can ask for an admin to delete such a page, either by listing it on speedy deletions, or by adding a or a  ) header. The parameter Reason should indicate clearly why the page is a candidate for speedy deletion...
 * G4. A substantially identical copy, by any title, of a page that was deleted according to the deletion policy. This does not apply to content in userspace, content that was speedily deleted, or to content undeleted according to undeletion policy. Of course, other criteria than this one may still apply to such pages.


 * CSD are criteria allowing the deletion of articles by one single person (any admin or higher) without the participation of the wider community. If I understand it correctly, the G4 criterion specifies that some pages that have been deleted before may be deleted again on sight, by admins. If a page was previously voted off on AfD, and received the sanction of the community to be deleted, any attempt to recreate it (substantially similarly etc) can be seen as a refusal to abide by the decision of the community; G4 empowers admins to strike those attempts down.
 * Hence, any page that "was deleted according to the deletion policy" (ie. WP:DEL, ie. AfD) may be speedily deleted via G4 if someone attempts to recreate it again.
 * However, a page that was previously speedied was deleted solely through the judgement of one person — the deleting admin. It sounds to me like the second clause in sentence 2 of G4 is an attempt to ensure that no abuse of power takes place (indefinite speedies, as you put it). The page if recreated needs to be seen and judged by the community. Hence, "content that was speedily deleted" cannot again be speedily deleted via G4, even if it was "substantially identical" etc to the page an admin saw when it was first SD'd. That, in any case, is how I understand it. However, it does not take a legal expert to see that quite a few WP guidelines are very vaguely (sometimes even haphazardly) written, and continual improvement in this area will be welcome.— Encephalon  |  &zeta;   21:17:01, 2005-09-01 (UTC)

Sorry, but "The page if recreated needs to be seen and judged by the community" is completely wrong. If an article is speedied validly (under A7, for example) and is recreated, it can happily be speedied again under A7. The existing criteria still apply, and these are what should be noted as the reason for deletion. - brenneman (t) (c)  23:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Aaron, I have a lot of respect for your work on WP and your opinions on policy that I've read elsewhere, but in this particular instance I disagree with you. The CSD rule under which a recreated article can be deleted is G4. That rule specifically disallows speedily deleting an article that was previously only speedily deleted. The clause does not say:
 * "[G4] does not apply to...content that was speedily deleted under all CSD except A7..."
 * It says:
 * "[G4] does not apply to content that was speedily deleted..." Period.
 * If we admit your interpretation, what precisely does this clause mean? I may be reading something wrong, Aaron, if so please point it out; but from where I'm standing I can't see that your interpretation works.
 * In any case, the current Cam Wilson article does not meet A7, as I noted here. It asserts notability. Best— Encephalon |  &zeta;   05:13:57, 2005-09-02 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I've re-read my commentary on the front page and there is an assertion I should have made more clear: I personally would not have put a speedy tag on this article, I would have sent it to VfD.  I try to be cautious with speedies.  On another note, this is the most agreeable dissent I've ever experienced over deletion!  Everyone should have a biscuit! (I know I haven't your question above, but I will soon.)  brenneman (t) (c)  05:45, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Replied at Wikipedia_talk:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion to centralise discussion. Please reply there regarding general G4 application. -  brenneman (t) (c)  13:58, 4 September 2005 (UTC)