Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Contact Consequences

Please take another look
As a member of the cleanup taskforce, I have greatly changed this article from the version that many users first voted on. I encourage everyone to take another look. Canderson7 23:25, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Before you start...
Could I urge you to review the other articles on this subject, including Abduction Phenomenon, First contact (science fiction) and unidentified flying object. Thanks. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 10:11, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Discussion moved from vote page

 * Sorry, no hoax This article is intended to address the concearns that people may have, should NASA find something, say on Mars or Europa, aliens find this planet. It depicts both any positive and negative effects of alien contact, such as aliens helping Earth's doctors eradicating Cancer, AIDS,Bird Flu and/or aliens having humanity over for mealtimes - their mealtimes, meaning we're their food source, just as plants and animals are our food sources.Martial Law 04:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


 * How many people remember the media mess caused by the fossilized alien organisims found in a meteorite that was determined to have originated on Mars ?Martial Law 06:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This is one reason that this article should not be deleted.Martial Law 06:21, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, User:70.27.59.200 Its no hoax, nor fallacy,etc. the article only addresses what could happen should NASA,ESA find something, aliens find this planet. Imagine that SOMETHING had been found by one of the space probes on Mars, or that you turn on the TV, go on the 'net and see aliens all over the place, and this is'nt a movie.Martial Law 06:31, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The discovery of the fossilized organisims in a meteorite is certainly one reason to NOT delete this article.Martial Law 06:44, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * First of all, the incident you're thinking of did not include any fossilized organisms, just some mineral structures for which the only known cause is a side effect of microbial life. This is not proof that there's any relevance to your postulares.  Second, if any of that line of microbes still exist, is it 100 percent certain that "This planet is destroyed from a high orbit, just like in the Star Wars movies...", as listed in the article?  It's not valid justification to keep this speculation in an encyclopedia.  Third, I misread earlier when I thought one of your "too many sources" was a UFO-fanatic website frequented only by a few cranks with no scientific validity.  It turns out that you used no sources at all, just links to other pages of this same tertiary source, because you have no reputable verifiable sources, just empty speculation lifted from decades of science fiction.  I've read on this topic for decades, and there's plenty of nuttery out there which you could have used for sources... but it still wouldn't make this content even remotely encyclopedic.  I've met people with views such as you describe, and their opinions are sufficiently described in the Unidentified flying object article, and their existence still doesn't make this content encyclopedic.  Barno 23:44, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Some TV preachers also believe this.Martial Law 20:31, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Some people believe Elvis was abducted by aliens, that doesn't mean that an article describing how to deal with his return, from the point of view of devoted fans, should be on Wikipedia. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] :: AfD? 21:30, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


 * All sources are from Wikipedia itself, NO "cranksite" even envisioned, much less used Barno. Find this alleged "cranksite". I'll examine it if you like.Martial Law 21:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Next.Martial Law 21:23, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Some of the ultraconservatives did'nt like Elvis at all.Martial Law 21:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


 * NextMartial Law 00:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I Don't Know. Its a terrible article. But the concept of contact consequences ought to rate an article.  Its been discussed widely in fiction, philosophy, and probably somewhere deep in the NSA.  But I guess "contact consequences" is not the right title?  If it is the right title, maybe make it a 1-sentence stub for later? Herostratus 19:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it rates it's own article. The jury is still out on the probablility of contact with another form of intelligence. Who knows? We may be the advanced aliens who contact a primative civilization? Anyway, if we wanted to do a section on the possible consequences of alien contact and add it to an article on the search for extraterrestial life, that would be a good compromise. Kerowyn 08:52, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * the article is intended for the common man, not just the science community, since it is the common man who may either revolt, due to religious reasons, and/or to vindicate himself/herself for being ridiculed as persuant to recomendations made long ago in the Robertson Panel. It is the "Joe Sixpacks" and the "Soccer Moms" that have to deal with other people that may go crazy and cause trouble. This is about your next door neighbor who might kill you, for being a govt. agent, harboring demons, having a alien encounter, or you doing likewise, or you and this neighbor may accept alien dominion, should aliens find this planet, alien life is found.Martial Law 20:34, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Let the Clean - up people have at it, maybe something can be done. That is why I had submitted itto these people.Martial Law 22:49, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It is only a matter of time before alien life is found, aliens find this planet. This planethas been transmitting for nearly 110-150 years in all directions. How many star systems are in a area that is 110-150 light years in all directions ? We may have attracted someone's attention.Martial Law 22:53, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Martial Law, I suggest you stop digging, the hole is quite deep enough already. That it is "only a matter of time" is ludicrous hyperbole.  The fantastic mathematical improbability of alien contact during the brief lifetime of any civilisation is extensively covered in the literature, both fact and fiction.  There is a broad consensus that, while there is a chance it could happen, the chance is infinitessimally small. The subject of religious belief and alien invasion was also covered extremely well by Mr Wells - and it was original research in his case, too. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 14:17, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * When I had referred to "transmissions", I'm referring to when radio was invented, first used. Proxima Centauri is about 4 light years away from us. Barnard's star is about 5 light years away, and it does have planets. How many more star systems are out there ?Martial Law 23:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Whoever came up with the recomendation to ridicule people who has had UFO/Alien encounters should wonder WHAT may happen if alien life is found, it finds "US". See the article Robertson Panel. Do NOT delete.Martial Law 06:02, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Alien Contact can happen in our time, our children's time.Do NOT DeleteMartial Law 06:10, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment: The article has now been extensively rewritten, removing much of the POV - but the subject as rewritten is already covered in Science fiction, First contact (science fiction) and particularly Alien invasion, and I see no reason for an additional article. In fact, I will probably look at merging the First Contact and Alien Invasion articles, since both are fairly short and the one is a subgenre of the other.  The author's impassioned pleading and multiple votes notwithstanding, I am sticking with my original vote. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 14:12, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Does this mean that you are in favor of Contact Consequences being merged with First Contact? Canderson7 15:06, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not. I think it adds little, and what it does add is speculative.  I think First contact would not be improved by merging this. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 17:49, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * comment The rewrite addresses some of the most egregious problems with formatting, etc., but the fact remains that this is a speculative article whose sources are science fiction novels. (See User:Martial Law's posts here for evidence of what he thinks this article's purpose is.) As a catalogue of what has happened in notable fiction, with citations, this could be an okay (but perhaps redundant) article. As it is, it's unencyclopedic crystal balling. Thus I also keep my delete vote. &mdash; brighterorange (talk) 16:00, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

One can see the old depictions of Native Americans AND the English people eating turkey and the like every Thanksgiving Day holiday.Martial Law 22:39, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Want a good example of a hostile "alien" contact ? When the Spanish made contact with the native civilizations in the Americas, they destroyed them, and extended their empire/kingdom.Martial Law 22:23, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * An example of "friendly alien contact" in the historical sense is when the English made contact with Native Americans, which later soured. This contact is recalled every Thanksgiving in America.

native civilizations, or will they treat us in the manner the English,French had treated the Native Americans ? This is another reason to KEEP this article, NOT delete it. Martial Law 22:46, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * IF aliens found US, will they treat us in the same manner that the Spanish treated the
 * comment In its current form, the article isn't encyclopedic. It needs a lot of work before being merged with First Contact, but if someone is willing to put in the effort, it would be worthwhile. Kerowyn 23:58, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Do you mean that when I defend a article, as I've been doing, I'm voting on it ?! I'm new to Wikipedia, unfamiliar to this. THAT is why I'm looking for a guide, so that I do NOT end up in trouble, make errors unwittingly.Martial Law 06:23, 14 November 2005 (UTC) I hope no one bites me, I do'nt taste good.Martial Law 06:24, 14 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all who have helped the article along. What it needs most is sources. Personal essays are not allowed, we must simply summarize verifiable sources. Rather than debating issues here, interested editors might better spend their time improving the article. Even if it's merged elsewhere, the information can accrete. However without some sources it isn't verifiable information. -Willmcw 10:35, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

ALERT !! SITE MALFUNCTION !! ALERT !!
This debate will be affected by a catastophic malfunction on the Wikipedia site. A critical program on this site has fatally malfunctioned. Repairs are underway. Time on this debate will have to be extended due to this fatal malfunction. Contact your Admin.s for more info.Martial Law 23:53, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Fortunately, since this page hasn't already been affected by the HTML Tidy problem it won't be. An extension of the debate will not be necessary . Canderson7 23:59, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Valiant effort, though. Points for the attempt.  RasputinAXP  T    C  00:11, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Article page appears to be fouled by a fatal malfunction. Can someone look @ this page ?Martial Law 00:13, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The HTML Tidy problem has appeared to have fouled the article:Contact Consequences. Can someone look @ thisMartial Law 00:16, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Good call. Although this page was fine, the article was messed up. It's fixed now. Canderson7 00:19, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

AFD and other templates appearantly fouled by HTML Tidy protocol malfunctionMartial Law 05:02, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

How far has the damage spread, and should Wikipedia have a Damage Control protocol in the future ?Martial Law 00:32, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

OK lets get back on topic. I am sayng that this article should be NOT deleted.Martial Law 00:36, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * All you need to do now is come up with some credible reasons. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 09:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)