Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Death watch beetle (Dungeons & Dragons)

Publication and licencing history
for the sake of the closing administrator who may not be familiar with the history of the publishing organizations, can we develop a history of the the companies involved and the various licensing agreements? -- The Red Pen of Doom  22:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If the editors seeking to delete (or redirect, really) all these articles are going to keep up the efforts, then yes, it would help to have a meta-dispute page. Perhaps at WP:WikiProject Role-playing games, which can be referenced from wherever else necessary? Jclemens (talk) 22:59, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * FWIW, this doesn't cover any of the licensing, and is pretty sparse on company details, but here's a D&D family tree, currently a WIP: Dropbox D&D Family Tree. Jclemens (talk) 23:05, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's a quick effort:

Companies
(There are numerous other companies using similar arrangements to Necromancer Games.)
 * TSR, Inc. - Original publisher of the Dungeons & Dragons game. Purchased by Wizards of the Coast in 1997.
 * Wizards of the Coast - Current publisher of the Dungeons & Dragons game.
 * Games Workshop UK (and commonwealth?) licensee of TSR, Inc. Published White Dwarf starting in 1977.
 * Paizo - Former licensee of Wizards of the Coast, handling their monthly gaming magazines, Dragon and Dungeon. After their relationship with Wizards of the Coast ended, they published the Pathfinder game based on the System Reference Document.
 * Kenzer & Company - Publisher of the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting, which existed as a licensed setting for Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition through a unique license (i.e., Kenzer did not use the open game license).
 * Necromancer Games - Publisher of products (including supplementary fictional content) made for the Dungeons & Dragons game under the Open Game License and D20 System Trademark License, including the much debated Tome of Horrors and a number of adventures.

discussion

 * re Paizo "their own version of the Dungeons and Dragons rules under the Open Game License," - that should be "their own version of a fantasy role playing game under the Open Game License and D20 System Trademark License, which was heavily influenced by Dungeons and Dragons. --  The Red Pen of Doom  19:23, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * While I get what you are saying, note that I said "version of the Dungeons and Dragons rules" not "version of Dungeons and Dragons". I am specifically referring to the D&D rules released under the Open Game License under the System Reference Document. Pathfinder took those rules and modified them. Further, your statement is factually incorrect. Pathfinder is not released under the D20 System Trademark License. Pathdinder does not bear the D20 logo and the D20 STL was retired before Pathfinder was even released.-Sangrolu (talk) 13:23, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If this guide was intended for an admin not familiar with D&D, I think we should indeed state the nature of Pathfinder in a way that could be understood by general audience, a "version of D&D rules" already seems too obscure. Is the statement that Pathfinder is Paizo's "own version of a fantasy role playing game, which was heavily influenced by Dungeons and Dragons" factually incorrect ? We can work out the details on licencing later, but for the sake of clarity and objectivity, I support TRPOD's modification.Folken de Fanel (talk) 14:12, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not incorrect, but it skirts a central fact being illustrated: that Pathfinder uses the same rules at its core as D&D. Maybe that should be emphasized and the definition of SRD added. (update: Done) -Sangrolu (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * For example we could add "which was heavily influenced by Dungeons and Dragons, reusing its in-game fictional content and gaming rules under the OGL" ?Folken de Fanel (talk) 14:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, any opposition to adding, for Necromancer Games, "Publisher of products (ie supplementary fictional content) made for the Dungeons & Dragons game" ?Folken de Fanel (talk) 14:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * (update) I'd say e.g. (for example), not i.e. (in other words), as the content includes new fictional content, but also new game rules and advice. Otherwise, I don't see a problem with it. - Sangrolu (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Re Necromancer games: content " for the Dungeons & Dragons game" is that accurate or is it "for the d20 / OGL game" ? --  The Red Pen of Doom  17:33, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Publishers who used the system trademark license were allowed to specifically cite Dungeons & Dragons, so that should be unambiguous. - Sangrolu (talk) 18:10, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Licenses

 * Open Game License a Copyleft-style agreement that allowed publishers to take other material released under the OGL and use it in their own material while abiding by Copyleft restrictions. The OGL was a no-maintenance license, and no oversight was provided with published material. Though Wizards originated the license, Wizards material not need be licensed at all. Wizards released a small amount of their own material as open content, most in a document called the System Reference Document, which was a major part of the Dungeosn & Dragons 3rd edition core rules.
 * D20 System Trademark License. A license that allowed a publisher to use the "D20 logo" and a small statement regarding compatibility with the Dungeons and Dragons game. Required the publisher to register with Wizards of the Coast, but was otherwise no-maintenance. Did contain clauses allowing Wizards to end the license if you violated its terms. The license is now retired, but was used during much of the published time of Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition.
 * License with Paizo - Paizo formerly had a license to publish Wizards' magazines for D&D.
 * License with Kenzer - Kenzer had a license to publish its Kalamar setting with Dungeons & Dragons branding, with some editorial oversight.

Rules Sets

 * Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition - The first rules edition released after TSR was acquired by Wizards of the Coast. Some content was released under Open Game License.
 * System Reference Document a subset of the D&D third edition rules released under Open Game License.
 * Pathfinder Roleplaying Game - A fantasy roleplaying game published by Paizo Publishing based on the rules released by Wizards of the Coast in the System Reference Document.

Feel free to spruce up details or improve my formatting as needed. - Sangrolu (talk)

next steps
If anyone wants to join the discussion regarding next steps, please do so here. -- The Red Pen of Doom  00:07, 28 July 2012 (UTC)