Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Historical persecution by Muslims

Copy of old archive page (only arguments apply) --Germen (Talk | Contribs ) 10:08, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I see there has not been a discussion as yet about keeping or deleting this page. I will summarize the reasons given for keeping and deleting. --Germen 13:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Reasons for keeping: (more reasons for keepuing sollicited)
 * there exist a page "persecution of Muslims" as well, there is no valid reason why persecution by Muslims is a less legitimate subject than persecution of Muslims (cited by user:Germen)--Germen 13:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * there exists religious persecution by Muslims, making this a legitimate subject (cited by user:Germen, User:Duncharris)--Germen 13:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * the title of this page has been suggested by a non-disputed user, user:Mustafaa (which not necessarily agrees upon keeping this page, though) (cited by user:Germen) --Germen 15:53, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * there are no standing complaints about POV and factual inaccuracies in this article (problems in the past have been addressed and there is agreement between the authors of this page about the method to solve inaccuracies and POV issues) (cited by user:Germen)--Germen 13:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * the page is a project of multiple users, including several undisputed users --(cited by: user:Germen) Germen 13:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * the page has potential for improvement, but should be thoroughly rewritten --(cited by user:Ems57fcva) Germen 16:04, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * the page is (non specified) encyclopedic (cited by user:Klonimus) --Germen 10:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * the page subject is (not specified) notable (cited by user:Klonimus) --Germen 10:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * the page is historically relevant (cited by user:Malathion) --Germen 17:34, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Reasons for deleting:
 * user:Germen is a supposed problem user (cited by user:Axon, user:Dcarrano) --Germen 16:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The article is a (non-further specified) POV fork (cited by user:Viriditas, user:Dcarrano, user:Jayjg) --Germen 16:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The article is non-encyclopaedic (not specified why) (cited by User:Jayjg) --Germen 16:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The article is a source for controversy (cited by Tomer) --Germen 17:03, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

(more reasons for deleting sollicited)

Reasons for deleting or keeping Reasons for alternative action
 * Dependant of outcome of delete vote on Religious persecution by Jews (cited by user:Irishpunktom) (note however that Germen did not create this article as stated by Irishpunktom, he created the article himself) --Germen 16:04, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This article, the one currently debated, was created by you --Irishpunktom\talk 17:11, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, I thought you referred to the Persecution by Jews article, which you did create yourself. I am the author of this Persecution by Muslims article indeed. Apologies offered. --Germen 09:16, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Meh, it's not really that important, apologies not needed but appreciated --Irishpunktom\talk 09:28, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * This article should be merged with Persecution of Muslims (cited by user:Hamster_sandwich) --Germen 16:09, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

My solution
As I stated on Wikipedia talk:Votes for deletion/Religious persecution by Christians I think this type of article has inherent problems. There is nothing that links all Muslims to the same persecutions. Also, it should not become a whitewash because it is obvious that Muslims have been involved in persecutions. Most of the Qur'an quotes that are there now are horrible. They are talking about being Muslim is the path to heaven, that's not persecution... that's called thinking your religion is correct. Different Muslim groups have had different reasons for persecuting... this page could be a link to various Muslim groups but should not contain content that will necessarily generalize about a whole religion. gren 16:36, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * We try to make the page as NPOV as possible, by emphasizing that substantial portions of the Muslim population and clergy differ on things like religious sanctions or prohibitions of persecution. For instance, in Saudi Arabia Muslims believe the building of churches is not allowed while Muslims allow this with several severe restrictions in Egypt and the United Arab Emirates. Mentioning this differences will I think reduce prejudice and therefore be helpful in a better understanding of islam.--Germen (Talk | Contribs Netherlands flag small.svg) 16:53, 26 July 2005 (UTC)