Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/List of songs that have been considered among the worst ever

List of songs that have been considered among the worst ever
''I moved the following conversation here from my talk page because it's directly relevant to this VfD. -Silence 20:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)''

What is the point of all your verbose lobbying on the Afd for this? Are you trying to get the percentage above the 89% you cited from the film vote? - its placement at the head of the discussion of course being a faux pas. The few who have voted Delete are entitled to their opinions, which in my view are certainly as valid as voting Keep because "It helps make the internet not suck" (something you neglected to comment on). --JJay 02:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * The point of my "verbose lobbying" is to get the facts out. The outcome of this VfD will have a large impact on a number of other high-quality articles if it is deleted, and it is vitally important for those articles to be kept in mind throughout the vote, because I fail to see the slightest difference between an article about songs that have been called the "worst ever" and an article about movies that have been called the "worst ever". Until anyone can show me a difference between the two, effectively, we're voting on whether or not to delete both articles, not just one or the other.
 * "Are you trying to get the percentage above the 89% you cited from the film vote?" - Of course not. It would take a ridiculous number of votes for that to even be possible, and 89% is much higher than is typically needed for consensus anyway (and consensus isn't needed for an article to be kept, just lack of consensus to delete). The only reason I linked to the previous vote was because it's almost a direct copy of this vote, and thus should certainly be a major part of this discussion. If you don't like my mentioning the outcome of the last vote, then feel free to remove the "89%" part and just have the link be there for anyone to visit if they want to make as informed a decision as possible.
 * "its placement at the head of the discussion of course being a faux pas." - Not at all. It's as important to the discussion as if this was the second time "List of songs that have been considered the worst ever" was under deletion, in which case the previous debate would certainly need to be linked to prominently, this being the second attempt at that debate. Again, I see no difference between this just being a previous vote on the same article that we need to keep in mind, since every reason for deleting the Songs article has applied equally well to the Movies article.
 * "The few who have voted Delete are entitled to their opinions," - When did I say that they weren't, Mr. Strawman? You're the only one who seems to be against people expressing their opinions right now; I didn't object to anyone voting or commenting on the page with what they thought, I merely pointed out flaws in their reasoning (like failing to take into account that all Wikipedia articles are assumed to only include the most noteworthy information for those articles unless mentioned otherwise, rendering defunct any criticism that the article would need to list every song that anyone's ever called the "worst ever" to be complete; the examples I gave show this to be simply untrue) and disputed their findings. In other words, I began a discussion with them; that's half the reason for these VfDs, ne? You're the one who seems to object to my having a discussion on a page specifically made for votes and debate.
 * "certainly as valid as voting Keep because "It helps make the internet not suck"" - Voting "keep" and giving a silly or joke reason for it is no better or worse than voting for something and not commenting at all, which is allowed. It's completely unlike voting for something and giving a reason that's a falsehood or that fails to recognize a major aspect of all Wikipedia lists. If someone had voted "keep" and based his reason on "it's against Wikipedia policy to delete lists" or some other blatantly untrue statement, I'd have probably commented on that too. Though I can't comment on every silly mistake anyone mistakes; I only focused on the major ones, so future debate could be enhanced by a nice, healthy dose of the truth, along with a sprinkling of perspective.
 * "(something you neglected to comment on)."" - I "neglected to comment on" most of the votes. Why would you ask me to comment on that one, when others didn't comment on it, when there's very little (if anything) to actually respond to that would be of any use whatsoever, and when the person hasn't stated enough about their reason for voting for any sort of information to be provided that would likely better inform the person? I don't dispute anyone's right to vote how they choose, merely the reasoning they use; since "It helps make the Internet not suck" is lack of reasoning more than bad reasoning, and since there's no way to counter that ridiculous argument ("no, it makes the Internet suck!" would just be sinking to his level; is that what you had in mind?), I fail to see how responding to that comment could in any way be constructive or useful. And if someone had voted "Delete. It makes the internet suck.", guess what? I wouldn't have commented on it! Because it would have been a waste of my time no matter what the person was voting for.
 * Also, since this discussion is directly relevant to the VfD, I think I'll copy this exchange to that vote's talk page. -Silence 10:20, 16 November 2005 (UTC)