Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/SYS Linux

Discussion with primary article editor
The arguments above are no justification for any deletion. SYS is a Linux distro what's good progressing, just with a new release being currently updated to mirror servers. My wiki article is short and characterizing the distro and its differences to other distros. So, deleting the contribution cannot be understand other than that it's not neutral but controlled by any interests. As said, in wiki are pages for comercial Linux distros, or such which just copy their programs, while SYS is no-comercial and I adapt, compile, pack all essential progs; its also running on my own server, see www.copaya.yi.org/info.php thus since long time and good tested in server use. There is also a short report about the distro and an mirror under www.distromania.com. The mirrors normally verify the function of Linux distros before put them for download.

OK, wiki is a site of any firma, what can do what they want, however, this and also the objectivity and imparciality on my own sites (and that of other friends) under this circumstances would justify a politics to forbid/delete links inclusive exhibit the reasons for that —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 12:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The LAST version is of 3 days ago, there had already earlier ones. On the 1st reference, www.copaya.yi.org/tgz, you can see the whole history: own adaptions/compilations/packages since '6/07, and renaming to SYS and install CDs since '11/07. With basical knowledge about informatics, one also can see from this site that the distro has good quality inclusive that all basical programs were adapted/compiled/packed by myself (kernel, last 2.6.25-rc5, glibc 2.7 compiled to the last's kernel's headers, gcc 4.2.3 and 4.3 -- however 4.3 [not my package, the program itself] during my extensive tests has showed still problems with a few programs, so that I stayed with 4.2.3. In contrary to other Linux distros which copy the kernel and basical packages from Debian etc, Iself adapted/compiled/packed them for SYS. And its working good, cf www.copaya.yi.org/tgz.     It's more that I was TOO detailed and careful - version 0.20 could have been released 1 month earlier, but I always wanted to wait one next slightly better/newer version of the Linux kernel ...   Thus, this release is very careful prepared and tested, on my own 2 computers and computers and laptops of friends and neighbours.

Here is a discusion and test report by one person in a forum (the small 'tecnical' 'problems' - merely unsignificant error messages - during the instalation on v. 0.20-rc2 were corrected in the new version 0.20, alias such small problems occur on all distros) : http://www.winfuture-forum.de/index.php?showtopic=134404 Alias, that person what made the test there, inclusive screenshots, seems to be satisfied because he just now is doing the painstaking work do download from my very-slow-conection server the new 0.20 version of the install CD (1st reference) so that later all other mirrors can download it from him. (this is ready now)

The quoted download mirrors are on one university and one Max-Planck-Institut and the mirrors check at least roughly that the .iso 's work. That (at the beginning exclusively) the install DVDs are distributed by hand is absolutely no contra-indication -- but exactly in contrary, Iself saw / the users imediately came back to me during still occured problems, and I corrected them quickly. Just this interaction between programmers and users is something what's missing in Linux and why Linux progreeds so slowly

unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 13:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Im sorry, I dont see the need and Im not willingly to defend here my distro more than that I did above. On reliability and good function of SYS is no doubt, as I see from my own computer, that of neighbours/friends, and the quoted discusion forum; all known problems I corrected already. It's the logical structure of our world that it works in the 'parallel connection' mode - when one way is blocked, one passes just a little at the side. We have the freedom of the speach and of taking our own initiative to do something, independently if the mob is against, other people perhaps like and use it. wiki dont warrant the basical rights, trying to control anything -- but itself certainly dont want to be blocked or hindered but what want to control others. OK, wiki its appearently just a privat firma/site with doubtful reliability, and they may can do inside them site almost what they want. However just this have to be sublined, that they dont can usurpate the general impression of being something reliable in the sense that the omission of anything in wiki could mean that it would not be good or relevant.

And I use my right, to distribute my distro, independently what (perhaps unqualified or parcial) people think, and to defend it against direct or indirect discrimination. When wiki opt to delete my contribution, it's a condenation against themselves and against their reliability and objectivity. Then I will on my side forbid any link to wiki in my forums, and explain that this is necessary because of the lack of reliability, desrespect of fundamental rights (under them own justification that wiki is just something privat),  entering of interests, and attempt to control the opinion and limit the progress (suggesting everybody to try to write any article in that wiki and make his own bad experiences),  practics alias who are directly opposite to the open-source idea.

Nothing more to add here, by my side. wl —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 17:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you feel that way Mr. Landgraf. I can't speak for anyone else, but let me explain where I stand. 1. Wikipedia is a research tool and as such we need to have the good practice of providing reliable third-party references for a good amount of our information. Without such "roadblocks" we would be unable to fact check and that would result in a poorer resource. 2. As for the notability of your project, that's debatable. Wikipedia's guideline on notability can be read here WP:N and it explains the need for notability and the types of resources that are commonly used to establish a subject's notability. It's a popular misconception that Wikipedia is an open zone for any information that anyone desires to publish. In fact it is quite the opposite, wikipedians (by consensus) frown upon original research unverified claims and promotional materials. 3. I don't believe anyone on wikipedia is attempting to stop you from distributing your software or debating the merits of your operating system, some of us simply feel that it hasn't reached a level of social impact that would warrant and article at this time. I hope that explains the situation better. Best of luck with your distribution.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 19:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Do what you want, I dont take care more of this discusion, whilst people try to delay my distro (probably Debian people which dont get forwards their own distro), I just prepared the next version 0.21 of my SYS distro. -- So long things are going, forwards, not backwards. Bye, bye, I anyway bring forwards my distro, but now I throw out anything what has to do with wiki and its use, and I inform everybody about the strange politics and practics. Im sorry that I spent my time and your time with your wiki wl   addenda: I hope nobody have any objection against that I put a copy of my article and this discusion include into the SYS install dvd beginning with V. 0.22, for the (hopefully satisfied) users which use my (hopefully) good working distro a good joke, and descrediting wiki proporcionally the opinions here are wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.175.174.41 (talk) 21:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know what the policy is on distributing this discussion. Please check the wikipedia licensing agreement. Also, no one is debating whether your software is any good. There is plenty of good software that just doesn't meet out guidelines for inclusion. If reliable sources become available I urge you to attempt writing the article with the new references if the result of this AfD is delete. You may need to go to Deletion review, I'm not sure though.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 22:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * All contributions to Wikipedia are GFDL so he's perfectly within his rights. However, I don't think he will be doing himself any favours by doing so to be honest: it will look a bit petulant if you ask me. Besides, I don't see a Linux distro with a home page that looks like this taking the world by storm any time soon... —Snthdiueoa (talk|contribs) 23:07, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The distro has its page in the softpedia forum since january, where it appr. 350 people downloaded (only just now the link to the .iso's was removed because it's currently updated). Nobody wrote any bad comment, some people voted it and seems to find it good. An independent site is that of distromania, which also wrote a nice text and put screenshots of the distro. Finally, I gave a reference to a discusion forum were the distro also was tried out and someone put screenshots. So its simply wrong that SYS has no external references. My own site, because of the poor connection to Guiana-Caiena (only one undersea-cable, and often only connection via satelite) is more often down than working, and my biggest handicap is to get always the .iso to the first mirror (i have 4 mirrors for SYS). However that connection proplem don't mean that the quality of the distro would be bad. My site copaya.yi.org is a comunitary site for the neighbourship with plenty general tools; the SYS comments and download space via ftp or http is only a part inside. In fact, as explained, the distro birth from the observation of problems what have simple people with other Linux distros and the intention to make that more easy, together with the fact that I already compile/pack/actualize programs for maintain the server. Addition: i made just an own site for sys:   sys-linux.yi.org/phpBB3  explanations   and sys-linux.yi.org/sys  for downloads.

Thus, the politics of SYS is what I wrote short in one phrase in this wiki article. And SYS fullfills this goal very good. The installation runs automatically without any question, after it sets up automatically an ADSL connection (a next thing missed on ALL other distros except Kurumin -- what sense has it that many distros have plenty internet tools, but beginners dump it and reinstall Windows because there is no simple tool for get working quickly a connection ???). However, the 0.20-rc2 revealed it so good and friends lieve it with them to Macapa and Manaus in Brazil where they installed it, that I put it to download. Some small, boring problems (i.e. irrelevant warning messages) were removed meanwhile. I try out all new distros and I feel / I made SYS so that Im sure that is a big progress for beginners come to Linux (here friends which before never used Linux, uses the install DVDs for give/install it for next friends). At the same time, as I use it on my server, I keep it working also for all more qualified work, inclusive server and development. You can see via copaya.yi.org/info.php (or in the repository copaya.yi.org/tgz) that I just used it for compile the new kernel 2.6.24-rc6 and glibc-2.7 against its headers, and thats running immediately on my server. I install it besides of my own computer on that of friends, so Im in direct contact with users and when something dont work I correct it immediately.

I think the fact that a distro is until now 'unformal', without big propaganda or comercialization, dont make it useless for wiki, when wiki want to relect relevant and new tendencies. At least here in Guyana-Cayenne, SYS is the most extended Linux distro. And it's not only a children-play-thing, but as I explained, already good mature, even if an install DVD has only since 4 months.

Yes, its correct that wiki can have its arbitrary politics, but then anyway one cannot give to wiki any authority or reliability, inclusive one cannot see / permit references to wiki than something reliable. I see that in wiki are registred plenty 'distros' which are simple remasterings of SLAX or of Ubuntu etc, compiling / adapting no programs but just copy them from others. I dont know the exact politics of wiki, but I think that, when such things are registered, then SYS should be it too, because in many points its much inferior. Only f.ex. in comparison with Sabayon Linux (which dont compile themselv essential programs): that is compacted 4,4 G, uncompacted 9,5 GB the half of which documents, the installation needs about 1 hour, the instalation is complicated and often one fall in a loop (f.ex. for the 3d-or-not-video-adaption). SYS has 4,4 G too, but better compacted what's uncompacted 16,7 GB, the instalation needs on my server 17 min, automatically, no problem. But Sabayon has a wiki page ...

The right to exclude wiki-citations from contributions to my sites I have anyway, and also to advice that when persons repeatedly use such references or when this is iminent. For this is irrelevant, alias, the current problem, any contribution of me to wiki, them status or licences by wiki, but only my subjective opinion / impression about the reliability of wiki. The right for explain more detailed the attempt to include an article about SYS in wiki, is depending if - by intention by wiki, or factually - the most relevant distros are registered and the discrimination could make a bad impression about the distro. Generally I condemn any kind of pseudo-autorities, -registers, -fiscalization on open-source what could result in a positive (inclusion of only selected) or negative (rejection) discrimination and see that as justification for an explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 23:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I again assure you that no one has singled you out. If there are other articles about distros which are in the same class as yours they will eventually make it to AfD.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 00:29, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Again with the current problem, arise more and more the question of the legimity of the open things and a government of the mob compared to privat firma politics. We are generally subject of avaliations -- but these have to be made by the USERS, not by any other people with different interests. Latest when someone would want to hinder or forbid wiki, its owners would cry and fall in contradiction to them own politics to control others. Collective things potentially violates the freedom and basical rights, so that perhaps its better, after the '30-years-war' of open things, come back to private/property institutions and firmas, with the repression of the alternative things and an ordered situation inclusive the protection of people which create anything against others which only know to critize. The situation animate me to write in my forum an article about open source and the P¨obel.

W.r.t. my article, do what you want, because now in my eyes wiki is completely disqualified. Insofar people dont know that situation and thus could get a bad opinion about my distro, I also tell them that. Now I spend my time for more senseful things; i'm just updating some progs, making even faster the installer beside of substitute the new kernel, and soon with a 0.22-rc1 CD going in direction to the next release.


 * Did you say it's had independent reviews? If so, can you give us some links to them -- that's what decides these matters, and it's all that we're asking for. —Snthdiueoa (talk|contribs) 09:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I looked at the Softpedia and a few other links mentions and the reviews are just people commenting or summaries of the what the download is, not really reliable sources. But if some exist I'm more than willing to change my mind. --Torchwood Who? (talk) 13:53, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that there have not many independent reports, but at least 2 have. 1) One in the winfuture forum, see above. In that forum sometimes I write contributions, and I also opened a thread informing about my distro, begging it be tested. One person wrote about it, tested it with two virtual machines, reported, and brought screenshots.  That version 0.20-rc2 is working good, with exception of some cosmetic problems like warning/error messagens during the instalation what one have to ignore strictly (this is normal on -rc or beta versions). Thats anyway an independent report.  (And the same person is just now doing the suffering work to download  from my slow server the 0.20 iso, he would not do it when he would think that the distro isnt good)  2) Another independent report is that by distromania, they dont wrote many but they wrote and made screenshots, also they made a download mirror. 3) In softpedia, Iself wrote the report, but the redaction of that site alterated it. I dont know exactly if the redaction of softpedia tried out the installation, but normally they testing all new distros, and from their changes of the text I think so.   According to their counter, appr. 350 persons downloaded it from the mirrors, and I think some 15 voted it as good.  A detailed report nobody wrote, but on the other side, when a program would have bad malfunction, normally some of the users advice and softpedia would retract the program or write an advice under 'known problems', this didnt happen.     On the 0.20 version, all these cosmetic problems were cleared, some software I throwed out and other put in, and the installation speed was still improved.  Since 4 days one mirror is downloading the new version and one DVD yesterday I sent by post to another mirror.  On the other side, since yesterday evening I´m testing the last -rc kernel, recompiled glibc, and some other new progs and new versions and when this is ok (the -rc kernels never give problems) then perhaps next night I make a maintenance version (essentially only updating these progs). Thus, there are at least TWO indepdent reports, that in the winfuture forum, and that by distromania. —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 15:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but those are not reliable sources. Forums and even sometimes Blogs are not considered generally reliable to wikipedia's standards. Also, the distromania article looks suspiciously self-written. You do have a rather unique english writing style.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 16:11, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

To distromania I sent the same informations like to softpedia, they wroted the report, even if they take one or other part from my information. They were whom first downloaded SYS 0.20-rc2 from me what needed about 1 week and they spent the little time to install/test it, inclusive for make screenshots.

OK what wiki keeps for reliable, they decide, and what I keep for reliable, I decide, and obviously I cannot keep as reliable what keep as unreliable something I know thats reliable. I include a copy of my proposed article into the next dvds and of this dicusion -- then the users of SYS will immediately see what's unreliable, SYS or wiki ...  :)  When wiki is not only a playground for trolls and mongoloids, then wiki must assume such a responsibility for its politics and decisions and support such a flagrante verification of its [un]reliability.

A big part of exchange of informations or even publications occures today in the internet - inclusively by forums and blogs. I agree that a part of that is fictious. But this depends on the matter, if you are in a players forum or f.ex. in a software forum. The whole open-source software development and its discusion occurs today in internet, what inclusive warrants its quickness, flexibility , and formlessness f.ex. for correct quickly errors. Also the wiki circus is nothing else than an initiative by a private firma 'what almost can write/do what they want' (at least that's quoted as justification when useful for them). wiki isn't better than any blog, probably even less reliable because censured. But generally, when you internet sources keep as unreliable, then it's correct to keep as unreliable wiki too

All this attempts cannot hinder SYS progress. Meanwhile is ready version 0.21 -- small corrections/additions like that discussion in next install DVDs can be included in the post-install or first-run correction folder ... :) The Debian or SuSE people dont get stopping my distro

—Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 18:04, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Please stop accusing wikipedians of working for your competitors. "The Debian or SuSE people dont get stopping my distro" is a bold statement and unless you can back it up please don't use it as an argument.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 18:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, calling wikipedians "mongoloids" is very offensive and if you are referring to anyone in this discussion it's also a personal attack. Please be careful when using such harsh language.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 19:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Just now the person who tested SYS 0.20-rc2 by 2 installations on virtual systems in the winfuture forum cited above and who's making a mirror and downloading 0.20, mailed me that he received today my 0.20-rc4 DVD via post. Meanwhile, v. 0.21 is ready. Thus, against all problems SYS continues, and when someone here want to test it, even a little obsolete version, I hope later today I know the link where to download it from that mirror.

Anyway, for conserve better the history of SYS, I'll compile a list of all sources where was wroten about/against it, and put it on the future install DVDs. Then the users themselves come to them conclusions.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 19:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what this statement has to do with this AfD. Please stay on topic, this is not a forum to discuss the finer points of your software or its distribution. This is only a discussion to determine if your article should be included in wikipedia.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 19:36, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Language If French is your native language please read the French version of the notability guideline here http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:N It might help you understand why your article is up for deletion.--Torchwood Who? (talk) 19:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I dont speak french, but found and readed that in German. The relevance is subjectiv; I dont understand nothing about flowers, and would be against such articles in a dtctionary, but other people understand and want get more informations.

Probably the best solution is, to see that the lenght of an article is not in desproportion to the relevance. Look for example Slackware Linux. This is currently at the 15. place in use, from the criterion of use thus not so relevant, however it has a long history. Here, about it, its founder, and other aspects, its OK to write many details.

My distro SYS is only at the beginning. Thus, I write very few, in my article is resumed really only the most important, I dont explain over 5 pages plenty details. I think a basical, short explanation is OK.

At least my Linux seems to be a new branche inside the Linux distros and filosofy about that system. Nor in a more complicated way. In opposite, in a most simple way, JUST FOR BEGINNERS CAN DOMINATE IT. Whom searchs something complicated on SYS, will be desapointed. But it works excellent.

Steady-steady they ask when finaly comes the 'Linux-Desktop-Year'. Having on one side good knowledge of Linux, living on the other side in the middle of simple people, which generally have Windows -Computer with all its problems (steady-steady Virus, missing *.dll or such problems), I see very well whats wrong with other Linux distros, and why average people dump them quickly. With SYS, I want to make a distro where everything is easy, neverthless usable also for advanced users. The distro is just at the beginning, there is still plenty to do for make it 'perfect'. But everything what I did, before everything the 2 most often reasons why average people dump Linux, I did consequently and compromissless in that direction.

The classical instalation is that by packages. In addition, one makes the configuration during or after the pkg installation. This is middle-complicated, anyway too complicated for the average people. Ex: Debian, Slackware.

A next branche is live CDs. There the people try out Linux and when they want it, they can install it. The configuration is more easy than from packages.

In SYS, I make it more 'stupid'/easy. Since long time, when I wanted to 'install' someone Linux, I dont do that from install CDs. I just take my harddisk, copy my system whats big and good working, put an auto-adaption/configuration script - and ready. Most easy, and when there is something to adapt by hand, it's very few -- much better than the other kinds of instalation. On 99% of the computers it works immediately. So, that is how is working the SYS instalation. I set up the sistem, good working, and that will be essentially copied. I pack it as a big .lzma file on a DVD, that will be unpacked on the person's computer. Autoconfig scripts running on the 1st use of the sistem itself can then make remaining adaptions with the system's tools, much better than a little install system / initrd could do that. Others did this before too, however more complicated - and much slower; indirectly did this Peanut Linux (died) and the live CDs copies a mixture of a ready system and own configurations. *** SYS is the 1st and only distro where simply, fast, strightforward, definitively a packed sistem is copied, without questions during installation, and any configuration will be done by autoscripts on the 1st use -- in future even things like name ... taking from any preexisting system. ***

The main purpose of SYS is to make it most easy for beginners. SYS is the only distro what I know what installs without questions to respond or actions during the installation (only at the beginning one can select to install or rescue system). The installation is fast and strightforward. Currently a few things remains to be done at the 1st run (such as, select the language), but in the now-beginning 3rd phase of its development, the first thing I'm completing is a script what plunders out all informations of a perhaps existing Windows instalation (language, name, password, weight, hair color, birth day, ... of the user) and write these infos into corresponding files of SYS so that really nothing more have to configurate.

Also in another point SYS is more direct. Exactly in opposite to the philosophy of live CDs, where the people 20 x use it and then continue with Windows installed, SYS pretends to make most fast and definitively a good working Linux installation. Until Version 0.20-rc1 the person nor was asked if he want it and it deleted Windows (except 'My Documents'). To children here around I gave the install CD and told them that it has many video, internet, game programs: before father/mother perceived whats going on, Windows was substituted by Linux, but they liked it and stayed with it. However, perhaps that was a little too rigorous, so since 0.20-rc2 SYS dont delete Windows but only don't mention its partition as bootable in lilo, it will be however mounted and is good visible so that the person can use his documents, picturs, videos within SYS.

And this works. In the quarter where Im living, within shortest time 40% of the Windows computer were cured. Important is that everything in SYS works good, people can use them files/docs, and principally the easy installation. People who I gave the install CD, install / give it to them neighbours. Because of this is the highest priority: no question / no configuration during the install process; an imediately working ADSL connection; everything working whats normally in Windows works.

Thus, although some itens are subject of improvements just in the 3rd fase (after the 1st making working the installation, and the 2nd to select/test/increase the soiftware what comes), in this item SYS is unique and much better than other distros: easyness of installation, without any compromiss = full-automatical;  instalation tecnically most simple (copy of a working system, autoconfig, soon: everything else taken over from any W$ instalation);  the person get without problems/questions imediately a working system with internet working. And the rescue system what starts in less than 20 sec with tools so that one can see/copy/recover files of a broken Windows system already considered as lost.

Also the name SYS is part of this. No name whats complicated or what has any privat imagination / idea of the founder, such like: Mandrake, Slackware, Kurumin ...   The people ask, where is the sys cd, the sys crashed etc. Thus, to substitute more easy any existing system, i call my system simply SYS. This accelerates the acceptance.

SYS is in everything the most easy distro.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 06:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

OK i found just the two following criterion lists. Tomorrow I check if my proposed article agrees with them, and perhaps I change the article correspondingly. On the other hand, my article is short and i dont want to make it bigger, it needs to have only the most basical infos and everything else people can read in the references. To one of the criterions I can say, already: SYS is not inactive/abandoned, this night just I released version 0.21: www.copaya.yi.org/tgz/X, with the kernel from before-yesterday, glibc updated, cdrkit 1.1.7.1 , bzip2 1.0.5 , skype 2.0.93 and about 30 other programs updated since the last version 0.20 4 days ago http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Artikel_über_Software http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Freie_Software/Qualitätssicherung —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 07:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: The following entry was made in response to my notifying the user that his article has been modified and included in an external project. It is grossly out of context here on it's own.Miserablyeverafter (talk) 16:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Im glad about this, because I prefere to spent my time for improve steadily the distro than for war. I just also abreviated some frases of the article to make it smaller. Alias, download in a few days when its on the mirrors the new version of SYS and try it out !! Just 2 hrs ago when I tested the burned 0.21 DVDs (cf. ftp://copaya.yi.org/tgz/X ) which I'll send today by post to the mirrors, Iself was astonished and very satisfied with my system and how fast and easy it installs and good works. To my opinion, ** THIS ** is the way to get Linux desktop-usable -- not with elefanteous install programs like SuSE has —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 07:48, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

... and I see that the release 0.20-rc3 (by my mistake designed as 0.20), adviced on the page of softmania, finally reached the mirror server of the Max-Planck-Institut and Uni in G¨ottingen:  ftp://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/linux/install/sys/. But development continues, and of the version 0.21 what I released on 18/3. Meanwhile it's on the mirrors and it may download who want and make himself an own impression about SYS (or, better even, to write a report about it ...)  :)  (see above) —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 15:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I modifyed the article slightly, for include some itens requested on the wiki instructions for software articles (quoted above), such like GPL, where to obtain, etc.  A next unique feature of SYS is,  that, tecnically, its core for administration and forthdevelopment, is a backup-reinstall package: ftp://ftp.copaya.yi.org/tgz/SYS_Linux-0.21-r1-i486-1sys.tgz This, in principle, can be used to dump any existing (f.ex. personalized) system onto a DVD in a form that it's re-installable somewhere else. This system is also tecnically used for make a release/new version/new install DVD: then the actual system is dumped onto a DVD. After it's reinstalled, and forwardsdeveloped until the next dump/version etc. On this dumps, the system is cleaned up for certain garbage etc, too. For beginners it's good to can leave them personalized system on travels on a RW-dvd, reinstall it anywhere else, continue them work/documents/letters etc, at the end dump it again on the DVD, leave all them work and changes with them without to lose something, reinstall it at them home, etc. On one 4,4 GB DVD fits 16,6 GB i.e. a huge system. The SYS distro is just an aplication of this ; i.e. a good instalation whats developed forwards by successive dumps/cleanings/reinstalations. I use that as very flexible.

I at the moment am waiting that (i hope, monday noon) the new version .. -0.21.iso of the distro's install DVD is finished to upload at the mirrors (http://sys.bb83.de others see under references), and that then someone writes an report about his experiences with it. I changed slightly the article and the discusion page of it, deleting some less relevant frases and put in italic some more important aspects. wl —Preceding unsigned comment added by W.landgraf (talk • contribs) 20:17, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Im glad to see that meanwhile the .iso is at the mirrors. I hope that people use it, like it, report about problems that i can make it better. I hope also that someone write a test report about it, inclusively what may be useful for my current wiki article -- however that's secondary, irrelevant compared with the usefulness of SYS for the people.

On the same time, I can only shake my head about the stupid arguments at the deletion justification page. Someone wrote to 'delete SYS because it is a hobby of one person'. ^^  This shows that the deletion arguments on wiki occurs without a minimum of qualification, really by the mob who dont produce nothing but only knows to critize others, or trolls. ALL OPEN SOFTWARE IS MADE AS A 'ΗΟΒΒΥ' BECAUSE ITS MADE GRATIS. Also, 80% OF THE OPEN PROGS AND DISTROS ARE AN INICIATIVE BY ONE PERSON - on distros f.ex. Slackware, Mandrake, Kurumin. Later they create a number of users which help. So, what shows this about the quality of wiki ? Good that wiki has problems to get money -- the people arent so stupid to not perceive whats happening and dont sponsor this longer. Beginning with install DVD 0.22 I include a copy of that discusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.175.173.32 (talk) 01:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)