Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/St. Clements University


 * Comment The website does not claim to be accredited by the International Council for Open and Distance Education. It claims to be a member of that organization, whatever that means. The University does claim to be accredited by the Institute of Financial Accountants (UK). If this can be verified, this article is a keep if not, the article is a delete. Also, there are two articles with the same name. There is another article called St Clements University with no period after the St.Bagginator 06:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The Institute of Financial Accountants is NOT an accreditor. It's members are a group of businesses, mainly department stores, and Clements does not appear on the list. Arbusto 16:22, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Here's another page on their website that says they gave accreditation to Keystone Keytime, and Keystone Keytime isn't on that list you provided. I think the jury is still out on this one. Bagginator 22:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment 1)The Oregon State Office of Degree Authorization lists St. Clements University as unaccredited. 2) Does IFA's website claim they accredit Clements University? Having an article on a unverified subject is not acceptable. Arbusto 01:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment The Oregon State Office of Degree Authorization does not list St. Clements University as unaccredited. Instead, it says The use of degrees issued outside the United States is governed by ORS 348.609(1)(a), which requires that such degrees come from schools with the foreign equivalent of U.S. accreditation. Suppliers that appear to be based outside the U.S., though possibly also operating in the U.S., have a code of "F" in the "Type" column below. which doesn't necessarily mean that St. Clements University is unaccredited, it means that they are not accredited in an equivalent manner of U.S. accreditation. As of right now it looks like St. Clements University is not a verifiably accredited university and should thus be deleted. If evidence later can be found, then the article should be recreated. I hope the creators of this page see this discussion and do their homework. Does the IFA's website list Keytime as accredited other than in that news bulletin? I can't find on their website their list of accredited business schools with that one exception. Bagginator 02:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment You quoted the wrong section. Above the list where Clements is it clearly states: "The following list of unaccredited degree suppliers is maintained by ODA for the protection of the citizens of Oregon and their post-secondary schools by identifying those degree suppliers that do not meet the requirements of ORS 348.609(1)." Thus, it is a list of unaccredited institutions and Clements appears on it. Arbusto 02:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: Clements also appears on List of non-accredited colleges/universities by State of Michigan. Arbusto 02:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment St. Clements is called a "degree mill" by List of non-accredited colleges/ universities by State of Maine (see listing 564). Arbusto 02:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I quoted the appropriate section. If you missed my comment after the quote, i'll repeat it here in bold. means that they are not accredited in an equivalent manner of U.S. accreditation hence the quotting of that section. So, while it appears that St. Clements University is considered to be by United States standards to be an unaccredited school, it may be accredited appropriately for the United Kingdom. I guess the easy way here is to simply announce it is unaccredited and ask to have it deleted. It is more appropriate to first get the answers to our questions. You wrote Having an article on a unverified subject is not acceptable. but you really should have written that it is not verified to your satisfaction. The article provides a link to their website where they show a scanned copy of their accredited certificate by the IFA. It seems pretty simple to verify, simply write to the IFA and ask them. Is that harder than proposing them for AfD?Bagginator 05:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * United Kingdom accreditation is considered "equivalent manner of U.S. accreditation". 2) WP:OR (contacting someone) is not acceptable sourcing for wikipedia articles. 3) Please provide WP:RS it is accredited. 4) St. Clements of Turks and Caicos Islands is called a "degree mill" by List of non-accredited colleges/ universities by State of Maine (see listing 564)Arbusto 05:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * United Kingdom accreditation is considered "equivalent manner of U.S. accreditation".Am I supposed to take your word for it?
 * My point isn't so abstract that it is difficult to understand. If you took a moment to contact IFA and discover from them if they did accredit St. Clements University, you could have properly sourced the article and not bothered with a deletion attempt. Unless of course IFA could not provide with verifiable evidence of accreditation, then you could have moved forward with your deletion attempt. I'm not sure if this school is accredited or not but my default position is to assume good faith. Why not contact IFA before deleting the article? You have already gotten your facts wrong, twice. Isn't it possible you are wrong in thinking this article is a delete?Bagginator 06:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)