Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/StartCom

Startcom references in other articles
The Startcom reference in the Red Hat Enterprise Linux clones article was added in 2005 by a Dutch cable modem user, 62.238.255.224, who was compiling lists of Linux clones.

The following articles refer to Startcom; these references were initially added by User:Startcom: --A. B. (talk) 13:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Red Hat Enterprise Linux
 * Certificate authority
 * Web of trust
 * CAcert.org
 * Transport Layer Security
 * Robot certificate authority
 * Comparison of Linux distributions


 * Two more references on en.wikipedia:
 * Metalink -- added by Antini, an established editor
 * List of computer technology code names -- 3 Startcom code names were included when the article was started by Slambo in 2004. He added still a later code name later.
 * --A. B. (talk) 15:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Startcom references in other Wikipedias
Some may have been added by someone with Startcom, others were added either by established editors or IPs outside Israel: --A. B. (talk) 14:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * de.wikipedia:
 * Web of Trust -- added by 212.150.1.40 which traceroutes to startcom.org
 * Zertifizierungsstelle -- also added by 212.150.1.40
 * StartCom Certification Authority -- article deleted
 * vi.wikipedia:
 * Nhà cung cấp chứng thực số-- added by Lhboi, an established, mult-article editor
 * ja.wikipedia:
 * StartCom Linux -- started by Kanon zuki, a possible (but not for sure) special purpose account (contributions)
 * fr.wikipedia:
 * Metalink -- included in article from the article's creation by 86.219.112.241, a French IP


 * Two more data points:
 * ja.wikipedia:
 * 認証局 (Certificate authority) -- added by Iida-yosiaki, an established, multi-article editor (contributions)
 * he.wikipedia.org:
 * The Hebrew version of Comparison of Linux distributions has multiple red-linked references to Startcom and Startcom products. I was unable to tell who added them.
 * On the one hand, there are multiple references in other Wikipedias not added by Startcom editors but on the other, there appear to be no Startcom articles I could find, even on he.wikipedia. I found the references above mostly by hitting the "In other languages" interwiki links in the left columns of the articles that have or have had Startcom references on en.wikipedia.
 * --A. B. (talk) 15:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting research A. B. ! Actually I wrote the articles because there were "red-links" and stubs. I decided not to do the same on the Hebrew pages after the experience here (and a failed attempt at the German wiki). Startcom 19:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Notability
Google search for "Startcom": 341 unique Google hits (1 to 100, 301 to 341)

I have left notices of this AfD at these WikiProjects inquiring about notability: --A. B. (talk) 13:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linux
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cryptography


 * What is striking to see on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linux, that at the todo list Pie Box Enterprise Linux needs expanding and at the bottom the question about StartCom. Maybe you should tell them not to bother, because when I expanded and edited the StartCom Enterprise Linux, this was the state the page was about. Perhaps you should establish guidelines about how to setup and write articles about Linux distributions, which would make everything a lot easier. On the other hand, there are templates for OS Infobox and listings at distrowatch, obviously which should be used at such articles. Startcom 17:23, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Other comments:
 * Google lists 37 pages on DistroWatch containing "Startcom". DistroWatch is notable but does it meet the requirements of the Reliable Sources Guideline -- is there editorial supervision of some of these pages? If so, I'd say this company is likely notable.
 * Startcom is closely tied to the XMPP Federation, apparently an entity of the notable XMPP Standards Foundation (formerly the "Jabber Software Foundation").
 * "Beware of free SSL certificates" 25 February, 2005, Heise Online -- originally appeared in c't magazine ("the most-subscribed computer magazine in Europe")
 * --A. B. (talk) 16:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the response of StartCom concerning the heise article: http://forum.startcom.org/viewtopic.php?t=430 In 2006 there was this article in heise as well: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/73850
 * Concerning StartCom Linux you might look also at other links at Notability. Additionally StartCom Linux has an extensive repository of RPM packages (see pbone.net Startcom 19:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * An "extensive repository of RPM packages" has nothing to do with notability. Why did you even mention that? Also, DistroWatch is not a reliable source any more than Freshmeat.net is since both are self-editted. The big problem with Linux distributions is that anyone can create one. They are a dime a dozen. Heck, I've even got my own Linux distribution but you don't see me spamming Wikipedia with its links! (Requestion 21:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC))
 * Of course does a extensive repository of RPM packages has something to do with it. StartCom isn't just a "me too" distro, but was one of the first producing RHEL clones and has additionally its own product (MultiMedia Edition) which isn't a clone. StartCom does that already for 3 years successfully and has a repository of over 23,000 packages. Also you are completely wrong in the second case you mentioned, because Distrowatch is edited by Ladislav Bodnar (the owner of the site). The same is true for pbone.net which is under full control of its owner. In both cases StartCom doesn't have any influence about what gets reported and listed. I don't know about Freshmeat, since we never submitted anything to them. Having said that, there are enough other references besides them in the talk pages of StartCom Linux. Startcom 22:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * StartCom should have its own page, they are large enough in the Linux world to include them. They are also unieque that they have there own CA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.111.24 (talk • contribs) 29 April, 2007

Images
Closely related to these articles are the following images: --A. B. (talk) 13:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Image:Screenshot-98.png
 * links appear on talk pages but the image itself is not used
 * Image:Screenshot-51.jpg
 * orphan
 * Image:Screenshot-96.jpg
 * orphan
 * Image:Screenshot-92.png
 * orphan
 * Image:Screenshot-91.png
 * orphan
 * Image:Screenshot-18.jpg
 * orphan
 * Image:Screenshot-19.jpg
 * orphan
 * Image:Startcom-logo.jpg
 * links appear on talk pages but the image itself is not used
 * Image:Screenshot-93.png
 * orphan


 * I just nominated all for deletion as orphans except for Image talk:Screenshot-51.jpg, which is overdue for automatic deletion due to copyright issues. See Images and media for deletion/2007 April 17. --A. B. (talk) 23:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

coi spa clutter on afd

 * has seriously cluttered the Afd page. Can most of this coi spa's obfuscation be moved to the discussion page here so that the primary policies and guidelines issues will not be obscured there?    — Athænara   ✉  23:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with this.--Hu12 00:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Response
Can we have this discussion on my user page? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Startcom It would be in continuation of most previous entries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Startcom (talk • contribs)
 * No, as we have a zero tolerance approach to corporate vanity and hence these articles need to disappear. Also, this discussion is centralised, as opposed to some far off corner of the wiki. MER-C 10:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Objection
I don't understand! Lets go here one by one...

1.) The StartCom articles exist for quite some time now. They were build and guided by members of Wikipedia. The first entry was a stub which I took on to improve. Notability of StartCom Linux and CA were discussed previously (See discussion pages of each article) and have been found to satisfy the Wikipedia criteria and guidelines.

2.) For example StartCom Linux is mentioned at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux#Clones among other similar distributions, all of which have their own entry in Wikipedia. I quote: "include StartCom Enterprise Linux, CentOS, Pie Box Enterprise Linux, Scientific Linux, White Box Enterprise Linux and Lineox. Oracle Corporation has also recently come out with its own repackaging of Red Hat Enterprise Linux called Oracle Enterprise Linux as part of its Unbreakable Linux program but don't provide a free mechanism of applying updates without paying a service fee as with Red Hat." So what is the difference here? The same is true for this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions Additionally you can find most Linux distributions here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions Most of them have their own entry in Wikipedia.

3.) The same goes for the StartCom Certification Authority. The StartCom CA is very unique in being the first and only CA providing free digital certification (for both server and client certs) and being included in some major browsers and other software. Also here, there are various CAs listed in Wikipedia.

4.) If you remove the StartCom articles you must remove almost any other Linux distribution listed here, the same goes for the CA.

I suspect, that you are related and/or sympathize with a competing Linux vendor which happens to support also a competing CA (and I can name names if you want)! StartCom is not Spam, how dare you say this! Additionally there is interest in these articles. Additionally StartCom Linux is 100 % open source and works with a community surrounding both the distribution and the certification authority. — Startcom (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 17:22, April 4 2007 (UTC) (UTC).

Originally the StartCom Enterprise Linux was a stub. I didn't created it. I improved it. Somebody else can improve it further. Nothing more to say here. Startcom 09:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Notability
Concerning notability, this is from the guidelines at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability

''"Notability is generally permanent

If a topic has multiple independent reliable published sources, this is not changed by the frequency of coverage decreasing. Thus, if a topic once satisfied the primary notability criterion, it continues to satisfy it over time."''

This is exactly what happened in the past and I'm very surprised to see this issue coming up again!

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:StartCom_Linux and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:StartCom_Certification_Authority — Startcom (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 17:55, April 4 2007 (UTC) (UTC).

Differences
Can anybody tell me, what is the difference between http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentOS and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StartCom_Linux ? — Startcom (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Corporate Vanity
Contributed with respect to the legitimacy of the encyclopedia by — Athænara   ✉  01:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)