Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Studebaker Motor Company

Research on Studebaker Motor Company
I have listed this article for deletion because I have been unable to find evidence that confirms that the "entity" exists, based on what is contained on its web page. The "entity" has produced no products. The "enitity" has no listed business telephone number, or published address on its web page; I am unable to verify the state in which state the "enitity" is in business. As for its one-retail outlet, HOLBROOK STUDEBAKER, the link to such is not active through the web page, and A9.com does list any such dealership in its listings except for the mention in the Studebaker Motor Company web site. At best, and assumming Good Faith, I can only guess that this entity is at best speculative at present, and as such doesn't meet Wikipedia standards for inclusion. Stude62 20:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Discussion moved from vote page

 * NOTE: refactored discussion was returned to the main page. &rArr; BRossow T/C 20:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Not sure I support this refactor to the talk page
I think it was fine before, as long as people kept it cleaned up (which I was doing every time I commented) so it was clear what was a "vote" and what wasjust a comment. Indents and comment do fine for that. Note also that I think at least one "vote" is here only and not reflected on the non talk page. It's the first contrib vote and therefore likely to be discounted anyway but for completeness, when this gets archived, that (evidence of apparent meatpuppetry) would be lost. People never look here.

So I think I've half a mind to move the whole thing back. I can be talked out of it perhaps. + +Lar: t/c 18:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not thrilled either. AfD is supposed to be a discussion. By extension a Talk:Afd page is a discussion about a discussion.  At the very least the move to the talk page should by highlighted in giant neon letters on the main AfD page since few other Afd's get moved to the talk page like this one.Thatcher131 18:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Lar Would you please show me the steps on how to redirect the studebaker motor company page to mine so that i can move it's script there. Cuase i really feel that it's going to get deleted no matter what i say or give to help support it. And even if it get's moved over into the Studebaker page it will get deleted from there as well. Thank You for any help you give! --Settinghawk 18:32, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Editors that make other contributions are given wider latitude than those that only focus on one article, because the assumption is that one article focusers are here to promote whatever that one article talks about. So far your contributions have been focused on this one article. Broaden out, do some useful stuff elsewhere... stuff that has little or nothing to do with cars. Once you do that, this article would survive in your userspace, in my view. With that as preface, the actual move is easy. Suppose you decide to make it a subpage of yours, meaning it would have the name User:Settinghawk/Studebaker Motor Company. Go to Studebaker Motor Company and click on the tab that says "move". In the next screen, give User:Settinghawk/Studebaker Motor Company in the target box, and press move. Assuming there isn't already something there, voila. Please do NOT move it by copying and pasting the text, as that loses the article history, which is bad (read up on WP:GFDL for why). Alternatively, change your keep to userify and the closing admin can do it for you if the article loses the AfD. Most admins will be happy to do that. Hope that helps, happy editing. + +Lar: t/c 18:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Lar would you please move the page for me. I have been putting information together on the Studebkaer Electric. Also will be looking at alt engery stuff and some other topics. Does any one have a problem with me adding a link to the Studebaker Moto Company Inc logo on the Studebaker Page in the Revival section? --Settinghawk 20:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The place to discuss that is on the talk page of the article you plan to edit. Or just make the edit but it may be reverted.  Remember that all additions need to be verified and mentioning the new company on another page will not get any farther than trying to create its own page did unless you have independent verification. Thatcher131 20:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * My reasoning in moving the garbled mess of discussion was that certain contributors were near-randomly adding commentary and replies. A quick-n-dirty way to address the issue was to move the glob of text over here and keep the votes where they belong. (No votes were lost, BTW. I was exceedingly careful to ensure that.) Having said that, if someone wants to try to sort out the mess and move it back, I'd be the last to be offended. Alternatively, bolding my comment about discussion being moved here would certainly draw attention to it. I'll do that now and if someone wants to go further, I'll not interfere.  Just trying to help. :-) &rArr; BRossow T/C 18:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ahh ... I think I see the "vote" you mentioned. I don't necessarily read it as a vote, but I'll move it back for the sake of completeness. &rArr; BRossow T/C 19:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

NOTE BRossow very kindly, and at some considerable effort in cleaning things up, moved the discussion back to the main AfD page for this article. The material still here is mostly meta, except for the NHTSA stuff, below. + +Lar: t/c 15:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

NHTSA search on Studebaker returns no listings
I went to the NHTSA web site today and searched the site for STUDEBAKER and STUDEBAKER MOTOR COMPANY, each search yielded no returns. I also checked under the automotive testing section and found that from 2000 to 2006 (to date) no such vehicle had been submitted to the agency for testing. On the US DOT web site a search (via Google) was done and returned two pages of documents, none of which mention Studebaker Moto Company, the topic of this discussion. A search of the web site does show a David Coleman in the Import and Certification Department, however I could find nothing searching (Certification and Studebaker). Anyone who is part of this discussion is free to do the same look-up. Stude62 23:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * NHTSA I went here http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/manufacture/ Typed in studebaker lower case and it pulled it up? did you go to that database? --Settinghawk 03:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * (Side note: One thing that would help is if you tried to learn the indent and bullet syntax, and do NOT hit return before your sig, as it always introduces a break that others then clean up for you). I went to the URL you gave and validate there are entries in the NHTSA DB for SMC... not sure why Stude62 didn't find them. But consider THIS url as well... http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/maninfo/ That is the page for "how to be a new manufacturer". It's not that hard to get into this DB, the NHTSA WANTS people to sign up. They make no judgement about volume of sales, whether or not you are or are not making things, etc. This DB is not, in my view, a proof of notability. I could get my company in there too without too much trouble I expect. (not that I want to, my company makes custom LEGO adult collector sets and large scale display models...) Does NOT prove notability. It IS a data point that the company exists though. For WHY it doesn't convey notability, cf discussions on Whos who... What you REALLY need to provide is some external writeups.. something from a paper, a car magazine, anything that shows that you (er, I mean THEY) are known to have notability. Hope that helps.  + +Lar: t/c 03:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This is a useful data point and thank you. Also, the Texas Sec. of State's office confirms Studebaker Motor Company is a registered corporation in Texas. Another useful data point.  Although registering a corporation is also not difficult.  The question now becomes what is SMC really up to?  Is it a hand-fabrication custom motorcycle shop, or really on its way to revolutionize the automotive industry?  You can't really say mobotics "will change the way vehicles are made" in an encyclopedia unless you can describe mobotics and provide outside sources.  Right now the only thing the article can say with complete verifiability is
 * " Studebaker Motor Corporation is a Texas company founded in 2004 to manufacture motorcycles, automobiles and off-road vehicles. They are not related to the former Studebaker corporation, and as of 2006, have not sold any vehicles. "
 * Not a very inspiring article as it would stand. Perhaps you do not know the company's real plans, or perhaps you do know what mobotics but want to keep it secret until SMC is ready to reveal it. That's fine too. That just means now is not yet the time for a wikipedia article. Thatcher131 04:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think what Stude62 did was to do a general search at the entry page. Unless one knows their way around the site would be the first logical step to take.  Note to Settinhawk, the link you provided was useful and thank you.  OnceBitten 23:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)