Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Wes Welcher

Hey hey hey wait a minute. I just read through that notability rubbish and noticed this: "Played one or more games in an amateur league considered, through lack of a professional league, the highest level of competition extant"

Is the CHL not an amateur league (or perhaps higher?) which is the highest level of competition extant? I think so. I don't know what you guys are trying to achieve by limiting the number of players that are "real". Maybe you have team biases or regional biases... but QMJHL players ARE notable, even according to those guidelines. And if you still want to twist it around so they're not... I want to propose a change of these guidelines. This is a democracy, afterall... is it not?Bradn87 11:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Read the entire sentence, particularly "through lack of a professional league". Hockey doesn't lack professional leagues. ccwaters 12:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Why have "through alck of a professional league" there at all if you're going to use the NHL as a worldwide, universal example of a professional league in hockey? Many of the players in the CHL are under 18 and in their cases, they DO lack a professiona league because they're not elligible for the draft until that age. So yes, I believe that my argument still stands. There IS a lack of a professional league for many QMJHL, OHL and WHL players.Bradn87 12:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There also if you look at WP:BIO an higher requirement that they play at the highest level of amateur competition if they are not playing professionally. Which would be the Olympics or the World Junior Championships. Which none of these players have done either. The WHL, QMJHL and OHL are not the highest level of amateur competition. And players under the age of 18 are elligable to play in some of the lower minor leagues so again there are professional options open to them as well. The NHL is not the only professional league. --Djsasso 13:55, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "There IS a lack of a professional league for many QMJHL, OHL and WHL players.". Wow. I'm not sure what exactly that means. Wow. ccwaters 14:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It means exactly what it says. For many CHL players, there is no professional league that they are elligible for. The CHL is the most competitive league available to them.Bradn87 14:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * But that is not what the requirement means. It means that there is no professional league at all. We are talking the 1800's. There are professional leagues they can play in like the ECHL, CHL, UHL, all of which do not have age requirements. Also WP:BIO overrides those requirements in that they must play in a fully professional league or the highest level of amateur competition. The CHL is not the highest level, the World Junior Championships, the World Championships, and the Olympics are the highest level of amateur competition. --Djsasso 14:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Who said anything about eligibility? That's the most amazing attempt at lawyering I've seen. ccwaters 14:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Bite me water. Stop with these vague references to rules. Obviously, if somebody is not eligible for a league, as far as they're convinced, no league exists. It'd be like, before the WNBA, you could say women had no professional basketball league. Yes, professional basketball leagues existed, but none that they were allowed to partake in. Same applies here. These players can NOT play in the NHL due to age requirements... ergo, no professional league exists.Bradn87 17:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And yet again there are professional leagues which they can participate in. And major junior hockey is not the highest level of amateur competition. The World Junior Championships, The Olympics and the World Championships are so dispite there being no professional league as you claim for them to compete in, they are still not competing in the highest level of amateur competition. --Djsasso 17:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * well Kempe played for Sweeden at the worlds. He's up for deletions. AND he was NHL drafted.Bradn87 17:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately that's not quite true. He played at the U-18 World's. The best players of his age play at the World Junior Championships which are a higher ranking. --Djsasso 17:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What about him being voted "fastest skater in the eastern division" by the QMJHL? That's noteworthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradn87 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's a list of trophies awarded by the QMJHL: http://www.lhjmq.qc.ca/lang_en/index.php?page=6784563 ccwaters 19:16, 31 August 2007 (UTC)