Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Archive 25

Custom module vs find/replace order
What runs first, a custom module or a find and replace rule? I'd like to have the custom module run first. Bgwhite (talk) 06:23, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Never mind. The user got things working. Bgwhite (talk) 06:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Simplified version of KingbotK plugin
My idea is that since class for File/Category/Template talk by the banner itself, KingbotK won't have to care to set class about these pages. Any disagreements? -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:00, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Rule clean up
I'm proposing a clean up of the rules, to avoid instruction creep and restore meaning. I know this is a sensitive topic, but after seeing Lugnuts bring Waacstats to ANI over edit speed we clearly need to address the difference between valuable and accurate edits versus 'edit countitis' people. I'm proposing a simplification of the rules. Something like this:


 * 1) You are responsible for every edit made. Do not sacrifice quality for speed.
 * 2) Abide by all Wikipedia guidelines, policies and common practices.
 * 3) Do not make controversial edits with it. Seek consensus for changes that could be controversial at the appropriate venue; village pump, WikiProject, etc. "Being bold" is not a justification for mass editing lacking demonstrable consensus.
 * 4) Do not make insignificant or inconsequential edits for the sake of your edit count. Such changes are likely to consist only of: removing whitespace, moving stub tags, removing underscores from piped links, and bypassing a redirect. With some exceptions (such as changes to the emitted metadata or categorization of the page), an edit that has no noticeable effect on the rendered page is generally considered an insignificant edit. If in doubt, or if other editors object to edits on the basis of this rule, seek consensus at an appropriate venue before making further edits.
 * Repeated abuse of these rules could result, without warning, in your software being disabled. If you wish to run a bot see Bots, bots must be approved by the bot approvals group.

I'm not going to be bold and make these changes, and while the wording isn't perfect, I think this is a step in the right direction. We do not need to have more instruction creep, and I think this more accurately reflects Wikipedia's tenets and the attitudes of most users. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't this already stated in AutoWikiBrowser? &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 15:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Many of the AWB typo rules are directly or indirectly whitespace rules i.e. life long → lifelong, none the less → nonetheless, closeby → close by, alongwith → along with, Robert DeNiro → Robert De Niro and many more. So maybe that part wants a rethink. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 15:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * True, in definition of AWB, but it is also a typo and impacts the wording. I think this whole 'inconsequential' aspect is more for people removing dummy edits or trivial extra whitespace edits at the end of lines rather then 'Robert DeNiro' or 'none the less'. And Jesse V, I'm proposing a rule clean up, meaning that we rewrite them to better define the rules of use. As Sun Creator just noted, whitespace changes with AWB are valid for many typos. While I see them as changing the meaning or form (a correction), another user may say it is optional and thus insignificant. Our AWB rules should be more on fixing issues and cautioning useless edits, but no one can describe what is a useless edit without making a paragraph for each case hence my rewording for  Do not make insignificant or inconsequential edits for the sake of your edit count. Which is still not perfect because it is subjective. I want to hammer out a better sense of the rules, and replace our poorly worded ones. And oh yes, I forgot to mention that 'interwiki link to title', and foreign language scripts are could be described useless, but I would rather see the characters instead of %@8r$89@G^2* in the edit window. So even html and unicode are not 'trivial' from an editors perspective. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:31, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I suggest you remove "for the sake of your edit count". Even editors who don't care about their edit count should not make insignificant or inconsequential edits.  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 17:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. So its Do not make insignificant or inconsequential edits... period or do we rephrase it? I feel that an example is not needed and the current examples are not absolutes. I guess it can be done on a case by case basis for reasons noted above. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I like the rest of rule 4, especially "an edit that has no noticeable effect on the rendered page is generally considered an insignificant edit" and the examples of such edits. I was only suggesting the removal of "for the sake of your edit count".  GoingBatty (talk) 02:44, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 05:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Original rules #1 and #2 were combined into one small statement, new rule #1. Needs to be some more description, such as "You are responsible for every edit made. Check every edit before hitting save.  Do not edit too quickly where you sacrifice quality for speed".
 * I'm not sure how to say this, but I see too many insistences of editors just clicking save and not doing anything else. Ran across a case the other day where person was adding persondata, but all the parameters were blank.  Response from the was "I just did what AWB said". Bgwhite (talk) 07:03, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with your suggestion. Persondata (where it can be wrong) I still feel would be better to have at least SOME info versus none, but because Persondata is its own thing and its kinda weird for some people, even the name listing is not correct when people add them. They'll put 'John Smith' in instead of 'Smith, John' thus making a mess for someone else to fix. I'd actually prefer that leave it blank if they don't know how to do it. Same like 'short description', I prefer a prominent category (if there is one) or will make up my own description if I find it lacking. Persondata is less likely to be corrected when mistakes occur. So while I understand the lazy appearance of adding the Persondata, as long as the Persondata tag is valid, I'd be fine with it. Its all the ones stuck on buildings, organizations, bands and 'multiple people' which get to me since I have to delete them or fix them so they are under the proper boxes. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 18:33, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Also here's an example of where it took me two seconds to update it, and the birth and death categories. AWB is a powerful tool and I much rather have it not be present then it be wrong. Saves me two edits with Hotcat and takes only a fraction of the time then doing it the 'hard way', or the 'fix it' way. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 18:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Persondata was just used as an example and was not specifically addressing problems with persondata. Too many times people just hit save and do nothing else.  This is somewhat addressed with my change to rule #1.  I gave an example of an empty persondata, but another one would be when AWB does something wrong. Bgwhite (talk) 08:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In two days I'll post the changed wordings; if anyone else disagrees has concerns or whatever feel free to address them now, later or after implementation. I'm against instruction or rule creep, but everyone's input is really wanted on something like this. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 03:43, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Have other noticeboards been alerted about this discussion? This page is likely to be watched only by AWB users, but the edits made by AWB affect everyone. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:43, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I mentioned this originally on WP:BAGs board, but where else shall I put it? I've consulted with more then a few people about this, we are not adding new rules or seriously changing them. Rule 2 as it stood has been deemed irrelevant on ANI and one other case, when asking explicitly about this rule the determination was that any 'issue' fell under rule 1 and rule 2 was just broken in process. For numerous reasons rule 2 is outmoded, especially since AWB's limiter functions and that AWB bot edits are restricted under bot policies. It will also fix the harassment of multiple users who are contributing (greatly I must add) to Wikipedia in various forms. I've even noted Arb Com members doing more then 20 edits per minute; the change corrected various moves, categories and redirects by hand. Without mistake. If you have a suggestion for where to bring this, without violating canvassing rules, I'd do so. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 11:50, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry for my delay in replying here. I've posted at Village pump (policy). FWIW I support the new wording, especially the removal of the ill-defined "Don't edit too quickly" clause. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:39, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Here are my comments; please respond below the entire post rather than splitting it. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 20:56, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) The "don't edit too quickly" needs to be clarified rather than removed. It is important to remind people that they should not use AWB as a substitute for getting bot approval for large-scale jobs. I would favor just coming up with an arbitrary limit - e.g. "no more than 4 edits per minute when not using the bot flag". The point of this is not about performance - it's to prevent humans from editing so fast that they become de facto bots and stop reviewing their edits carefully. If a task needs to be run at a high rate for some reason, it also needs bot approval.
 * 2) The "for the sake of edit count" is not clear to me, and should be removed. Editors should not make inconsequential edits for any reason, not just because of editcountitis. The bolded title could just say "Do not make insignificant or inconsequential edits ".
 * On #1 I thought the prevailing rule was no more than 10. I agree with #2 as well but I think we should provide clearer guideance as to what "insignificant or inconsequential edits" means. We know what it has meant in the past and the types of edits in general it refers to so we can use that list as a start. IF we need to add to it in the future we can, but too often this vague definition is used as a mallet in which to beat editors on the brain housing group (i.e. skull) when they don't agree with their edits. Kumioko (talk) 21:10, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * With that said though I am not really worried about bot requirements either. I have tried to get several bot tasks with no takers and they won't approve me for one so that means that some tasks either take forever (like my task of assessing the unassessed articles in WPUS) or they don't get done at all. That is a net loss to the advancement of the pedia. Kumioko (talk) 21:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with that. Getting a bot approval for the most trivial task by an editor of good standing should be a simply formality but in practice is a very slow tedious process that is a barrier to volunteering. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 23:40, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * On #2 the wording prohibits much typo scanning activity. Many of the rules such as changing the 1980's to the 1980s are 'inconsequential edits'; adding is an 'inconsequential edit' yet a very necessary and often very time intense task. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 00:25, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * IMHO, typo fixing is not inconsequential. Articles with typos may appear to be less reliable than those without.  If you turn on general fixes when adding not a typo, you'll hopefully make other improvements to the article at the same time.  Keep up the great typo fixing work!  GoingBatty (talk) 00:32, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Changing "the 1980's" to "the 1980s" is not an inconsequential edit. If we are going to be prevented from using AWB to maintain the style of WP, it will only go downhill. Of course, it is better to make such changes while fixing more glaring errors in an article, but it seems wrong to say that an article that has no serious shortcomings should not be boosted from good to exemplary. This is somewhat in parallel with Batty's comment.  Chris the speller   yack  03:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I cannot say the opinion of the wider community agrees or even AWB users agree. John of Reading thinks general fixes are usually inconsequential, while CBM has said the same about white spaces. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 04:26, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree that some general fixes and white space clean up have no noticeable effect on the rendered page, and therefore are generally considered insignificant edits. Typo fixes are minor edits, and I see you mark them as such when using AWB.  GoingBatty (talk) 04:50, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

The problems of this are not being resolved. This is an example of an edit that affects the rendering but other editors believe it is insignificant. The other problem is the addition of templates like that don't affect the rendering but is a significant edit, so much so that rarely do I even mark those as minor as I would encourage watchers to check. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 00:14, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Database dump extraction
Is it possible to extract a subset of a database dump using AWB (or even anything else)? Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 00:21, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you mean before or after downloading the big file? -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:52, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Both. Either before or after would be a solution. I've looked at available of such a database dump but it does not seem one exists(I've asked on WP:DUMP talk page). Any ideas? Extracting afterwards would seem a more flexible solution - if it was possible somehow. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 00:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Download the dump, then unzip. Then use Database scanner to obtain what you want from the dump. Load the file you decompressed. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:04, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * New dumps are being processed today. Wait till tomorrow to get one.  Bgwhite (talk) 00:10, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * (ce)I think you misunderstand or I didn't word the question clearly. I want a subset of the data(such as all mainspace articles) to save so I can repeatably run the database scan on it. If I run the database scanner on the original I can't save the resulting data as a database (but only a list of article names) that then can't be scanned with the database scanner, thus I want to create a subset of the original data as a database for use with the database scanner. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 00:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * With AWB, answer is no. Closest you could get is to do a scan of the full dump, save list of articles, then use Special:Export to create a small dump for the list, if the list is not more than a few thousand articles. I'm not specifically aware of other software to split out dumps, though since there are third-party torrents which are mainspace-only cuts of the enwiki-latest-pages-xml dumps there must be something out there. Rjwilmsi  14:31, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Underlinked tag
Following several discussions, including this one, the Underlinked tag has been created to mark articles that have too few links. Dead end shall be used to denote only articles with no wikilinks. Should/can this tag be added to AWB auto-tagging, to replace the old Wikify auto-tagging function? Guoguo12 (Talk)  13:00, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean Underlinked, and I've changed the heading to match. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:13, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, alas, you're right. Sorry about that. Guoguo12 (Talk)  14:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Until the AWB developers update the general fixes to use underlinked instead of wikify, we can use a simple find and replace rule to change "" to "" . GoingBatty (talk) 00:45, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If you do this, won't AWB users who run the current general fixes then be adding wikify to the underlinked tags? Chris the speller   yack  01:48, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoa! I responded before I read the following section. Sorry. Chris the speller   yack  01:51, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries - you're right that it's possible that we can use underlinked and another editor using AWB could also add wikify. So the best thing to do is add the wikilinks so no tags get added.  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 02:21, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Can anything be done to stop AWB suggesting the use of Template:Wikify? It's deprecated but is still being used, as Category:Articles that need to be wikified from October 2012 has to be emptied regularly. It is mainly being used by people using AWB. Twinkle has already removed it, and several bots have been stopped from using it.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  19:59, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. Ask people to disactivate Autotagging till we fix the problem. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:10, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We need to rename wikify with underlinked in the code but I would like to ask the opinion of the other developers before acting. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:13, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If they don't want to disactivate Autotagging, they can use the F&R rule I posted above. GoingBatty (talk) 01:01, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't think underlinked should be an auto-tagging option. I'm still firmly convinced that whether or not an article has too few wikilinks cannot be determined by a computer program. It's not as straightforward as saying that any longish article with fewer than three links is underlinked. Articles about fiction, for example, frequently prove themselves to be exceptions to this rule. They often have a single sentence lead with one or two links ("X is a book by Y, and is the sequel to Z") and then the rest of the article is a plot summary, with no links at all. Obviously, such an article could be tagged with all plot and would ideally be rewritten to include real-world context, but tagging it with underlinked accomplishes nothing; it only draws the article to the attention of gnomish editors who aren't interested in expanding or rewriting it. What tended to happen, back when these articles were auto-tagged with wikify, is that the tag languished for months or years until some well-meaning editor tried to resolve the problem by adding an abundance of inappropriate links, and then they'd remove the tag, leaving the article in a worse state than when it was added. And it's not just fiction – I've seen the same pattern in articles about schools, organisations, mathematical concepts... On the flip side, I've also come across articles that have plenty of relevant wikilinks, but it's apparent from a cursory inspection that many things which could be linked aren't, so I'd also be concerned if AWB was automatically removing the tag from pages which meet its arbitrary wikilinks:length ratio. There is no blanket rule that can be imposed here. Every article is different, and whether an article has "too few" wikilinks must be decided on a case-by-case basis. DoctorKubla (talk) 08:45, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Autotagging has a "gray area". This means we add it if there very very few links and we remove it if there are really plenty. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:34, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand that. What I'm trying to say is, not every article with very very few links should be tagged with underlinked. Take a look at Fudge Rounds, Off-Leash Area (theatre company) and Master of the Void – these were all tagged with wikify by bots using AWB. If I'm working through Category:Articles with too few wikilinks and I come across these articles, what can I do? My instinct would be to say that these articles have as many links as they need, so I'd ignore them or remove the tag. Another editor might (and as I said, I've seen this happen) try to solve the problem by putting square brackets around every other word (i.e. overlinking). So at best, adding underlinked to these articles is wasting another editor's time, and at worst, it's actually detrimental to the article's quality. And as for removing the tag, I'll say again that "plenty" doesn't always mean "enough". I can't remember any examples off-hand, but I've added underlinked to several long articles that, although they had plenty of wikilinks, only linked maybe half of the place names, organizations and notable people they mentioned. If AWB users remove these tags, which they will if autotagging of underlinked is enabled, they'll be taking articles that genuinely need attention out of the spotlight. DoctorKubla (talk) 14:05, 9 October 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) OK let's agree on something. On AWB's side we can do the first step asked: Change wikify with underlinked.
 * 2) We can also change the logic to better treat articles with short text.
 * 3) Let's discuss completely abandoning tagging on underlinked later.
 * 4) Note for Rjw: arwiki follows the established rules. We should not touch the arwiki side. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:45, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Changing wikify tag to underlinked
I would like to go through my AWB edits, and for every article where AWB automatically added wikify, change it to {[tl|underlinked}}. Here's how I think I could do it, but I need a little help: Either wikify will be removed and not readded because the article has enough wikilinks, or wikify will be removed, readded, and then changed to underlinked. If underlinked is added, then I could try to add wikilinks, remove underlinked, reparse, and repeat until underlinked is not readded. Thoughts? GoingBatty (talk) 01:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Use http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/commentsearch.html to search for my edits where the summary contains wikify
 * 2) Make a list using the results of this search (how?)
 * 3) Skip the article if it doesn't contain "wikify"
 * 4) Set up two find and replace rules to run BEFORE changes:
 * \|\s?wikify=(\w*\s\d{4})\s? → blank
 * 1) * → blank
 * 2) Set up a find and replace rule to run AFTER changes:
 * WOW. Those rules are amazing! &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 22:03, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So what's the best way to make the list of my edits where the summary contains wikify ? GoingBatty (talk) 23:02, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Does this link help? Ryan Vesey 23:15, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I'd use max pages of 500 instead of 100. So what's the best way to make a list in AWB based on that URL?  GoingBatty (talk) 23:27, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * User contributions filter with the no limits plugin and logged in as your bot will give you at least last 25k edits. Rjwilmsi  14:34, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Typos don't take effect in some articles
Running Typos on Nazi Germany, AWB should fix "signficant", but it doesn't detect it, or skips it for some reason. I saw a similar thing about a year ago, and it was found that AWB was thrown off course by a curly apostrophe, or perhaps more than one. So I cleaned up the curly apostrophes in the Nazi Germany article and tried again, but no better. This isn't a catastrophe, but it is somewhat disheartening and distracting. Can anyone dig into this? Chris the speller  yack  02:23, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * WPCleaner detects misspelling within quotations, so it detected the typo (and three others) with no problem. GoingBatty (talk) 02:46, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice, but it doesn't answer my question about AWB. Chris the speller   yack  03:54, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Can we identify more examples? Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 04:09, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Check the recent history of User:John of Reading/Sandbox. The typos were only fixed once I'd removed the sic tag from one of the references. I thought that "sic" tags weren't supposed to disable typo-fixing any more? -- John of Reading (talk) 07:09, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * According to the code above line 397 sic is excluded(ignored). Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 13:43, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So Ariane 5 is immune from typo-fixing because it carries 133 tons of liquid oxygen? And Black on Both Sides because it was produced by someone named "Ge-ology"? That's... odd. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)The 133t or -ology might have to be in a part that AWB checks, but yes, they stop all typo checking on my test page. Pretty weird I agree. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 15:15, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha. I can't recall why we have this 133t rule! -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:14, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Archive_8. 2006. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:07, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

removed 133t and -ology. In the past we had a warning tag for spell checking instead of skipping the entire page. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:11, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Note that at Nazi Germany the sic tag was in a reference, a part of the page that wasn't going to be typo-fixed anyway, so it's a pity that the sic tag had such a large effect. Could a "sic" prevent typo-fixing only in its own paragraph, for example? -- John of Reading (talk) 09:23, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Would be better to manually convert all sic's to the template that is removed(all templates are removed) and simplify the AWB code rather then load AWB with additional checking. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 13:51, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I estimate there are 4,000 articles with a simple [sic] and 10,000 with [sic] (just letting the database scanner do 2% of the job for each). -- John of Reading (talk) 14:57, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Agh, thanks for that. Nothing ever seems small in typo land. The fact that ~10,000 [sic] have been used shows that even if we converted them to templates more would quickly reappear. So perhaps the localised sic effect is required. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 15:13, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I already started replacements. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I found 1,500 pages with [sic] which I am now fixing. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I finished replacing [sic] and planning to start [sic] but there are too many to do manually. Someone could ask for it in WP:BOTREQ and then I could do it with my bot? (I have approval for simple replacements asked in WP:BOTREQ). -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:33, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * But converting [sic] to sic won't re-enable typo-fixing in the articles, so I don't see the point in doing that. The proper fix is to change  to , and that's too hard for a bot or a simple find-and-replace. (I hope you've remembered to add "nolink=y" when using sic inside an external link or the "title" parameter of a "cite"). -- John of Reading (talk) 21:17, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I only did some. I thought the best practice is to have "sic" wikilinked the same way we do with "circa" or "nee". -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * One more point: The template is easier to locate via WhatTranscludesPage than plain text. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:19, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's true. Have a look at this edit, though. I hope there aren't too many like that. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice catch. I'll have a check for more of these and fix. Anyway, I won't be replacing more of [sic] to sic more now. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:27, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice catch. I'll have a check for more of these and fix. Anyway, I won't be replacing more of [sic] to sic more now. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:27, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Multiple issues
Please see User talk:Delusion23. I was under the impression that AWB users were not permitted to blame AWB but were responsible for all of their edits made using AWB or otherwise; but apparently not. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:44, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I was aware that AWB was suggesting changes to the Multiple Issues tag. I assumed that this was the correct format. It seems I was wrong. I in no way blame AWB and claim responsability myself. All I suggested was that AWB should be updated so that it no longer makes this edit suggestion (if, as it seems, it is wrong). This would prevent people making this edit, as I did, under the assumption that it was the correct format. Cheers for assuming good faith...  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  21:51, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I see a lot of users saying "it's not my fault, AWB suggested it", which is (to my mind at least) a cop-out. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:18, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Everyone makes mistakes, and not everyone understands every change to every template in Wikipedia. Delusion23 took responsibilty in his first response by saying "I will refrain from making this change in the future."  This issue has been resolved in a recently published feature request.  I'll ask User:Reedy to publish a new SVN snapshot for us.  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 01:07, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Snapshot of SVN 8470 will not run
I fell back to SVN 8414 because SVN 8470 trips right out if the gate. Is anybody successfully running from this snapshot? I'm on Windows 6.0 Chris the speller   yack  20:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 8470 doesn't run. Problem fixed in 8471. I hope a newer version will be up soon. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:27, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick response. I have no trouble waiting for 8471. Chris the speller   yack  20:47, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There was a bug reported but then it was removed because it was fixed. I have the same problem. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 22:36, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I can send by email rev 8481 compiled with the use of .NET 4.0 -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:06, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I asked Reedy to post a new SVN on October 19, but he hasn't so far. I'd appreciate it if you could email me 8481.  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 00:49, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Could you email a copy Magioladitis. A copy with the kingbok plugin would be nice, but not necessary.
 * I noticed Rjwilmsi did performance work during last weekend's updates. Specifically:
 * "Rework TagUpdater: performance improvement to TagUpdater, saves 800 ms from tagger time on the largest articles"
 * "Performance improvement to TemplateRedirects genfix when there are no matching redirects in article e.g. on Barack Obama where no redirect match reduces time from ~900 ms to ~100 ms"
 * Something is wrong with me because when I read those numbers, I started to drool.
 * Question. I understand why it's best to compile with .Net 2, but are there any advantages to compiling it with 4.0/4.5? Bgwhite (talk) 05:02, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * AWB, as of v. 5.4.0.0, uses .NET 3.5 instead of .NET 3.0. My installations of .NET versions are fucked up so I installed .NET 4.0 and I can compile my own builds. I don't need to recompile KingbotK plugin because we didn't change anything in the code... yet (I have some ideas for the future). -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:48, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have asked to get permission to be able to upload new snapshots on the toolserver. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:50, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I sent copies to GoingBatty and Bgwhite. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the emailed copy. Would be great to have more than one person with the ability to upload new snapshots.  Thanks for all your continued work!  GoingBatty (talk) 14:33, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm looking forward to the snapshot. Aside from this one, the snapshots seem very stable, so perhaps AWB should notify the user that one is available. I've seen numerous reports in Talk pages akin to "if you run AWB, make sure you're using the latest snapshot". AWB, Y U NO AUTO-UPDATE? :) &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 15:10, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 8481 also dies a quick death. No error messages, it just dies.  Bgwhite (talk) 19:26, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Working for me. GoingBatty (talk) 19:48, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, got it working after I deleted all the files from AppData/Local/AutoWikiBrowser. I still can't kingbotk to work. I'm using kingbotk from SVN8414.  I load it from  SVN8459 or 8481 and it never loads. Bgwhite (talk) 20:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Likewise, the NoLimitPlugin doesn't load for my bot. Looking forward to a snapshot soon!  GoingBatty (talk) 20:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Revision 8506 is up. http://toolserver.org/~awb/snapshots/ Unfortunately, this version has a bug for non enwiki projects which was fixed in rev8508. Please don't use rev 8506 for non enwiki. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:14, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks much. SVN 8506 is running fine on en.wikipedia. Chris the speller   yack  01:19, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * GoingBatty (talk) 03:07, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Unicode Private Use Area
AWB won't process an article if it contains character(s) in the Unicode Private Use Area. Does anyone have any suggestions for finding these characters within the article text? It would help a little if the AWB message said how many of these characters I should be looking for. Check the recent history of Liao Dynasty for an example. I was reduced to scrolling through screens full of Chinese text looking for the little boxes of hex characters. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:10, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rjwilmsi has fixed a lot of them in the past. I keep fixing them too. If we had a list it would be great. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:21, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that's not the question I asked. I'm looking for help with finding the characters within the text of the article, so that I can remove them. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:48, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know. I think that doing what you asked it's doable. Let me think about it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Occasionally we want a PUA character, for instance when they're specifically discussed in the article. I'm thinking of articles like this one. If we add this capability, could we also integrate a PUA formatting template so that wanted PUA characters don't end up being repeatedly deleted? Perhaps we could set it up so that AWB will process the article as long as PUA characters are formatted as such? — kwami (talk) 19:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * AWB does not remove PUA characters. In fact it completely skips the page if one exists because saving such a page within AWB has serious bugs. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:40, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I understand that. I don't know if it would be possible for AWB to save a page if the PUA were embedded in a template that AWB was instructed to ignore. Perhaps they could be converted to &#x...; format? Regardless, if we do come up with a way of searching for PUA characters, there should be a way of marking those we wish to keep. — kwami (talk) 22:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good idea... in the wikicode they would then be both visible and editable. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a null template called PUA that does nothing but alert editors that the enclosed characters are intentionally PUA, and that therefore there may be a reason for keeping them. — kwami (talk) 22:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've created the template, which generates a category, and formatted some instances I was aware of. I just scanned the articles in the category w AWB, and it works fine. — kwami (talk) 23:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

"Typos fixed" summary
Would it be possible to change the automated "typos fixed:" in the edit summary to something less judgemental (e.g. "changes made")? A lot of the common changes are stylistic rather than true typo-fixing (hyphenation, standardisation of words like "Qu'ran" with multiple spellings etc). It can only antagonise people to have their writing described as a "typo" when they've actually made no mistakes at all but just happen not to comply with WP:MOSDASH - given how many people already consider AWB as a tool of the forces of darkness, there doesn't seem to be anything to be gained by keeping the summary in its current wording. Mogism (talk) 18:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Dead links
Is it ok to remove dead links found during AWB operation? ---zeeyanketu talk to me 19:09, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No, you should preferably carry out one of the suggestions described at WP:DEADLINK. At the very least, add a -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:49, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Mac and Linux users
CodeWeavers, the people behind Wine, is giving away copies of CrossOver. Crossover allows the running of Windows software without the need to buy and install Windows. CrossOver is Wine, but with added features and ALOT easier way of installing software. Crossover is supposed to be fully compatible with .Net 3.5 and below, so AWB should be able to run. I used in the day to run MS Office and other software across a couple hundred Linux boxes and loved it.

Copies will be given away on Halloween (CDT) at http://flock.codeweavers.com Bgwhite (talk) 17:20, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I tried this and could not get it to work. There is no "CrossTie" file to configure the installation automatically. I put in a product request for AWB and now it has a page in their database, but so far that's all: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=10920 – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:41, 7 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Not sure what system you are running on, but I got it to work under Linux. You have to install .Net and Internet Explorer 7.    Install IE7 via CrossTie first.  Then install .Net via the "crossover software install" program... it's under Runtime Support Components.  After you get things installed, run the AWB executable via "Run a Windows Command" in the crossover menu. Bgwhite (talk) 00:45, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Please! Stay out of reference names with AWB!
Reference names, in  ..., are there to allow one reference to be cited multiple times. They are just strings of characters, not anything that gets displayed in the article. The don't need to have quotes around them. If they have hyphens, don't change them to dashes. Please do to not change them. That breaks the references, producing red error messages in the references section. This happens often. Here is one where an AWB edit broke 11 references at one go. StarryGrandma (talk) 20:46, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Reference names which include a space - as these did - must be enclosed in quotation marks. The error here lies with whoever created the references in an invalid format, not with AWB. Mogism (talk) 20:52, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ref names cannot use spaces without having quotes. However, there were NO spaces in these ref names. The references in question looked like . The ref name is Ezer with no spaces. The |p.62 was an incorrect attempt to get a page number in. Since it was after the pipe |, it was not included in the ref name, and the references worked just fine. They all ended up with the Ezer reference. After being changed to  red error messages appeared the references section, which the editor using AWB should have noticed. This is not a problem with AWB, but with the editors using it in areas that don't need fixing. StarryGrandma (talk) 22:47, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Also AnomieBot's OrphanReferenceFixer handles problem spaces in reference names: → . StarryGrandma (talk) 23:06, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There also seems to be a misunderstanding over how to cite from different pages in the same work. Consider the three refs to Yonay; the first is given a full citation, with 4; this ref is also named, as and that is absolutely fine. However, the other two are entered as   and   respectively. As mentioned above, ref names containing spaces must be quoted; and the same is true of ref names containing the pipe character . Inside a XHTML markup tag such as, the pipe is not a parameter separator - parameters (more properly known as "attributes") are delimited with spaces. The  and  tags have no knowledge of page numbers. There are two  three main ways of showing the different pages. One is to use the  template, as in
 * another is to use plain text inside a , as in
 * a third is to use the template, as in
 * the third method does require the existing to be modified slightly - it needs to be given the harv parameter in addition. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:48, 11 November 2012 (UTC) amended  Red rose64 (talk) 14:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * a third is to use the template, as in
 * the third method does require the existing to be modified slightly - it needs to be given the harv parameter in addition. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:48, 11 November 2012 (UTC) amended  Red rose64 (talk) 14:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * the third method does require the existing to be modified slightly - it needs to be given the harv parameter in addition. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:48, 11 November 2012 (UTC) amended  Red rose64 (talk) 14:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I have never seen pipes ("|") in ref tags, and I don't see the usage described at ref or wp:ref. Where should I be looking? Mr Stephen (talk) 23:34, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's the point: they're not valid there. Inside quoted ref names, they are treated as simply another ASCII character like    or  . -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:57, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I agree with you, but the pipes seem to modify the behaviour. So, seems to behave like , but  fails. Mr Stephen (talk) 00:06, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. It appears the ref extension tag (which is not an XHTML tag) truncates the name when it hits the pipe, so renders a link identical to the one rendered for  .  generates an error indicating there are too many names. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:46, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems like improper use of the ref tag, and thus unreasonable to insist that AWB not correct it, even if this has the consequence of throwing up errors. If its purpose is to indicate a page number, this would be next to useless as the reader would have to enter edit mode to see it; he would of course have to know to look there in the first place, because it's a very fringe practice to put them there. --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 01:52, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * All very curious, especially as the pipe is a valid character in a name ( is good wiki markup). This appears to be either an undocumented (fairly useless) feature or an uncaptured error.  Either way I don't see that AWB and its users should give it a wide berth, rather we need extra functionality to clean it up.  Mr Stephen (talk) 07:52, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * This is not an AWB issue, but a functionality issue in, as the references in question were technically invalid from the start. Any unquoted ref name that contains a space should trigger  This error is not generated if the name fragment after the space contains (not just begins) any other character than A–Z, a–z, 0–9. I filed . See Help:Cite errors/Cite error ref too many keys.
 * The rule has been "Quotes are optional if the only characters used are letters A–Z, a–z, digits 0–9 and the symbols !$%&*,-.:;<@[]^_`{|}~". It looks like there has been a change, because a construct like now works, but it generates a link of . The problem is that generates the same link. I suspect that as I characterize this, I will find that any invalid character does this. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:59, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * As to the issue of including page numbers, see Help:References and page numbers which also include a link to a feature request for to handle pages. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 14:30, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I do appreciate all the work editors do using AWB and keeping things fixed up. I've been fixing broken reference names from the list at Category:Pages with broken reference names. Most are due to typos or edits that take away the complete reference entry but leave other named references "orphaned". (AnomieBOT manages to fix most of these, but some take a person to sort through the problem.) But I've also been running into reference names that get broken when AWB editors make changes to the names themselves. (The errors show up immediately if you preview a page or look at it afterward.) The pipes in the reference names, like were errors someone made long ago. But they didn't show up as a problem because the pipe somehow stops parsing the name. The references in the reference list were fine. The page numbers were just invisible. The changes using AWB resulted in 11 errors showing up in the reference list instead. So putting quotes in wasn't a fix, though it did uncover a problem rather than creating one. The point I was trying to make is that the names are just a character string. They don't need correct spelling or dashes or other revision if they are working. And if they aren't working, they need real fixes. I think AnomieBOT catches reference names that produce errors when they need quotes around the words. StarryGrandma (talk) 07:23, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Orleans/Orléans
I noticed that AWB changes "Orleans" to "Orléans" even when "New" is before "Orleans". Since "New Orleans" doesn't contain an é, it then changes "New Orléans" to "New Orleans". Since New Orleans is hardly the only use of "Orleans" without the "é", and since Orleans OR Orléans aren't that common to begin with, any chance that AWB stops changing "Orleans" to "Orléans"? p b  p  01:40, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't reproduce this (e.g. George Brunies, James Gallier, Pirates of the Caribbean (attraction), The Blind Boys of Alabama) and don't see a rule do to this at WP:AWB/T. Could you please give some examples of articles where AWB prompts you to make this change?  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 03:31, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Look in the edit history of Miami Marlins. That's where I saw it.   p  b  p  05:04, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The edit summaries read "replaced: Orleans → Orléans, New Orléans → New Orleans". This indicates that had configured these changes using "Find & Replace". I'll leave a message on his talk page. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I have a rule which fixes Orleans to Orléans, but then deals with the common exception of New Orléans by reverting it to New Orleans. (The very small number of other exceptions I deal with by hand.) A bit clumsy perhaps, but the outcome is fine. As noted, the edit summary contains a description of both replacements. If some regex expert could give me a rule which excludes New Orleans, I'll use that instead. Colonies Chris (talk) 09:04, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If you post your current Orleans regex I'm sure we can add the exception for you. Rjwilmsi  09:28, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's very basic. Just Orleans --> Orléans and New Orléans --> New Orleans. Colonies Chris (talk) 13:27, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Find  Replace   seems to work when I try it on this talk page. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Colonies Chris (talk) 23:34, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

What is going on?
I recently requested access to AWB which I had already acquired two months ago and unfortunately wasn't aware of that. So, admin informed me of the situation. I am thankful to him for that. But then he - based on a calamitous misunderstanding - revoked my access to the tool I had never even got the chance to use. The sheer misunderstanding was that I don't hold the view that I am responsible for every way I use the tool. When actual reality is quite the contrary.

Now one might ask, "how can a veteran administrator be so mistaken?" Actually it's not his fault, it's partly my own fault too. What happened is, once a novice IP-editor (213.246.88.102) had asked me to modify the "automated response" (automated warning messages that STiki leaves on user talk page, not to be confused with edit summary ) in such a way that it mentions that it's automated every time (at least, that's the Idea I got from his comments that day). Note: He wasn't complaining about the fact that I warned him through STiki. Also he, not I, was unsatisfied about the contents of the default warning. In that context I merely responded, "I have not created those messages nor did I build that software, so I am really the wrong person to complain to." I was not using that statement as an excuse; I was simply trying to inform him about the nature of STiki. Just to make it clear, I like the default warning messages, and also like notifying users that I reverted their edit. This gives them a chance to get back to me or improve their edits or re-add the deleted data with sources.

I never said that I do not take responsibility. And to dispel any vestiges of doubt there might be in one's mind, I do hereby solemnly swear to take full responsibility for the tools I use on Wikipedia. And the thing is, I never said or meant that I do not take responsibility. However, if someone asks me to change/modify the coding of the tool itself, then that I cannot do as I don't know how. The correct procedure to modify the tools (e.g. STiki, Twinkle, Huggle, etc) themselves is just not within the purview of my knowledge. Hence I wrote that I am not the guy one should be complaining to about the automated/default wording of the warning messages. Again, I didn't say "go complain to him". I repeat, he didn't complain about the fact that I warned him. He, instead, asked me to change the automated warning itself. Had that editor clearly asked me to simply change that particular message on his talk page, I would have gladly helped. Please see that thread and note that I stated that I "take full responsibility" twice, even within that very thread.

One might say that I misread/misinterpreted his comments or that I had spoken out of turn. Yes, there is a slim possibility of these things being true and I regret it. But that is not really the problem we're dealing with here. The the heart of the issue is my views on the responsibility of the tools I use here, which I think I have clarified already. I, as a matter of fact, don't have any problems whatsoever with any tool I use. OTOH, if somebody else has problems with my editing they are invited to inform me (with diffs) and if that discussion fails they can report me. Please restore the access. Thank you all for your time. Mr T (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 12:03, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Next time you need to add editor's talk page to your watchlist in case they reply. You can ask Sticky to do that automatically. I'll give you access again tomorrow by this time. I am leaving a day just in case someone else writes something on the matter. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:15, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for obliging me by considering my re-request. ″I am leaving a day just in case someone else writes something on the matter.″ - fair enough. Let's wait and see if Snowolf or anybody else has to say something. Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 13:10, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's about time now. Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 09:50, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:42, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Update required - no update available??
Hello, what is going on with AWB? I get the message that my AWB is outdated, but then a window tells me the opposite. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 12:21, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Auto-update sucks. please download the latest working version from http://toolserver.org/~awb/snapshots/ -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:43, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Should I download all three files? Regards.--Tomcat (7) 13:01, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Only the one on the top (AutoWikiBrowser5401_rev8512.zip). -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:06, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Template:Mfd should not be substituted
Why is Mfd listed on AutoWikiBrowser/User talk templates to be automatically substituted? Neither the template's documentation nor Miscellany_for_deletion indicate that it should be substituted, and substituting leaves a raw mbox on the page, so it's clearly not intended to be substituted. I think that Mfd, its redirects MfD, MFD, Mfd1, Md1, Nfd, Nfd1, and WNPD, and the closely related Mfdx (which has no redirects) should be removed from the list. jcgoble3 (talk) 18:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, and have removed them. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:01, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Quick query for someone who understands the regex
Ping - is this just because it doesn't recognise "exhibitian" as a typo, or is it an actual bug? Mogism (talk) 20:05, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No bug, it's just that no-one has written a rule to cover "exhibation". Since there are only two examples in the whole encyclopedia, it's probably not worth writing a rule. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:14, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikia
I would like to use my AWB program on Wikia. http://monsterhunterfanon.wikia.com is the site I want to use it on. I already have the userpage up and the program downloaded, now what? Ceadeus  Slayer   My slaying achievements  22:09, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Options - Preferences - Site tab - Project Wikia - monsterhunterfanon in the next box. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 22:15, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikify (again)
Since, wikify won't be added/removed anymore. We now add/remove underlinked. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:56, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * :D yay! Thanks very much. This will really help hold back the tide of new wikify tags being added to articles!  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  14:09, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yobot already uses the new version. It is a matter of time till everyone moves to this version. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:17, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Where can I find the latest version? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 19:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Snapshot with rev 8686 is up! http://toolserver.org/~awb/snapshots/ -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:10, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Is there any way to...
And, How to add persondata short description using AWB? --Tito Dutta (talk) 22:49, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Get any alert when I am editing any user page or talk page which is unwanted (everytime I load a category I have to filter out manually)?
 * 2) Stay signed in always (I mean bot Ctrl and sign in from saved account too?
 * 3) Avoid adding "Orphan" tag in articles? That's a tag I don't like to add!

For 3: Disactivate Auto-tagger. This is the only way right now. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:39, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * For 3, you could also keep auto tagger on and set up a find & replace rule to run after fixes that will replace "" with nothing. If you do this, you would have to be diligent about checking the edit summary before saving every edit.
 * Adding the Persondata short description can be done manually, or with a find & replace rule. Happy editing!  GoingBatty (talk) 04:11, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Adding orphan tag is inconsequential? Useless???
Now, adding orphan tag is disruptive too?? Am I somehow abusing the tools? What is going on? Why are some editors picking on me?

It was suggested by AWB and I thought this template was aimed at improving the article but it got reverted on Project Cloud Gap page with the edit summary saying, ″No: you did not make minor edits; the only thing you did is have your machine add a totally useless template.″

Note: Reversal was not the real issue, not for me, but the claim that it was useless and that orphan tag didn't do anything to improve the article, is what is perplexing.

The reverting administrator left a rather discouraging note on my talk page saying: "The orphan tag doesn't look very nice; I'd rather you did something to actually improve the article. FWIW, some people really frown upon the automated addition of such tags when nothing else is done to the article."

How is the "look" of the tag relevant here at all??? Isn't the addition of an orphan tag a simple issue? "Some people" frown upon addition of such tags?? Is there any such group who are beyond the reach of the policies of Wikipedia and run by-laws? Am I violating any rule here??? Am I missing something here??? The last time I checked Wikipedia didn't have a policy that allowed punitive action against editors simply because they are not doing enough. And who decides what is indeed enough? Discouraging someone from making legitimate good faith edits is enough?? I am hereby begging all the admins to stalk my page in there spare time. Mr T (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 14:25, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that adding an orphan tag is useful, because there are editors who target orphaned articles. But when AWB wants to add a tag, the edit should not be marked as a minor edit - that's one of the kinds of edit specifically mentioned at Help:Minor edit. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:35, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * John, I agree and will comply. Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 14:41, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Recent Update
 * The administrator wrote on my talk "Well, stop tagging articles I wrote. Try writing one yourself. Surely there's nothing vague about "stop using AWB to add useless orphan tags." Besides, I note, above, that I'm not the only one who finds your AWB edits problematic." .....What is this?? I thought WP:OWN was still valid here. Why am I being asked to entertain such demands? An admin should know better, am I wrong? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 14:39, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually adding the tag was not useless, as after it was added the user then found a page to link to it.Traveler100 (talk) 14:58, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Traveler, that's nonsense. BTW, I see that no one here had the courtesy to notify me of this discussion. The addition of a link is a normal part of normal article creation: that tag did nothing to prompt me, it just irritated me--don't tell me what my motivation was at which moment of the process. If at least some AWB users go through the 171,346 orphaned article, one could argue it's useful, but I don't see such effort regularly. Drmies (talk) 15:26, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * PS, John, I can take such an edit from anyone who also does something else to improve the article, or, of course, from someone with a proven track record in content writing and creation. In other words, I'll take it from you. But just a tag, and nothing else, I find that difficult to accept as helpful. Drmies (talk) 15:28, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Orphan tags are there to help improving pages by adding links around. Wikipedia works with tags. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:32, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:ORPHAN suggests that we add tags to all pages with no incoming links. Also WP:OWN applies. Tags are used so willing editors can help. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:33, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Magioladitis, I am saddened that you would likewise reach for the straw man of ownership. I was looking for something a bit less strong than "don't tag anything in that way"--but if you all think that my less strong admonishment is incorrect, then I'll ask MrT to not add any orphan tag anywhere with AWB unless they also do something productive to the article. Thanks also for linking to WP:ORPHAN which is quite clear: it urges us to link articles, not to tag them. Do you think some of you could at least make a token effort? Drmies (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Drmies, as others have come to the conclusion so did I, almost immediately after reading you comments on Mr. T.'s talk page and I commented as such on your talk page. Your comments to Mr.T blatantly reflect article ownership. As I mentioned on your talk page the Orphan tag is allowed, it is available for use and it was used correctly. If you have a problem with the Orphan tag I recommend taking it to the templates talk page or submitting it for deletion. But telling a user that they aren't allowed to use it or trying to justify your dislike for the template by saying the user is abusing AWB isn't appropriate, particularly from someone who is an admin. Personally I don't like the template either and have stated as such in the past. I would support a deletion of it, I think its ugly and lends little to the development of the article but its simply not appropriate to claim that adding it is an abuse of AWB. Kumioko (talk) 16:55, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait--you can give your personal opinion on my behavior but I can't give my assessment of what are and what are not helpful edits? Well, that is strange. And this is a huge time waste. Drmies (talk) 16:57, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Stating your beliefs and opinions is fine but you must do so in a certain way. Telling a user not to edit articles you create or trying to manifest AWB abuse from what was a simple edit are simply not acceptable. If I am brash and rude these days its because I feel strongly that these ideals and policies need to be upheld and my credibility was destroyed by an overzealous admin so now I see no need to be polite and politically correct. Several years of hard work and dedication was destroyed because one admin made a bad decision. Back to the point, more and more admins these days (not all of course), seem to think its ok to interpret the policies and rules however it best benefits them. This is becoming a major problem and it really pisses me off that more editors don't stand up to it. When they do they are frequently run down and blocked. Its wrong, its an abuse of admin powers and status in the community and needs to stop. Also, these discussions aren't a waste of time and that attitude is exactly what causes ordinary editors to not like dealing with admins or editing in WP. This is a community and discussions are not a waste. You really need to check your attitude. You made a bad decision in making your comment and you got called out on it. It happens, its time to live with it and move on. Kumioko (talk) 17:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Drmies, you should know it better than me that asking someone rather peremptorily not to add a specific template (which you dislike) to articles which you've written, reeks of an attitude that directly contradicts with WP:OWN. You should check your behaviour also. I think repeated indications that I am using fallacies, would have been considered by a less equitable editor than I, as impertinent conduct bordering on an oblique personal attack (might be a mild violation WP:AGF, WP:NPA). You might be an administrator but you're not outside the Wikipedia policies. Please keep that in mind. Mr T (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 17:10, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I would like to clarify the following: Tags are to attract editors to fix pages. I understand that Mr T could for example let you know that this page needs fixing instead of adding the tag but then it would be like it is your obligation to fix the page. Tags address to the whole community and this is better because there may be someone out there that can fix the issue. I am also not great fun of the big boxes in each page but it seems this is the community's consensus. I spent a lot of my time fixing dead-end tags but it really takes a lot of time. That's why I committed myself more on semi-automatic fixing. -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:12, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I see that no one here had the courtesy to notify me of this discussion. - Didn't I inform you about this discussion on my talk??? Please acknowledge that. Why do you behave in such a way? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 17:20, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You did that an hour later, while I was posting here. Drmies (talk) 18:48, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You two both need to drop this. This is a ridiculous overreaction. T needs to quit being so zealous with AWB, but Drmies is overreacting in a major way here. It's frankly embarrassing for an admin to be behaving like this. Shadowjams (talk) 23:57, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect Infobox ship edit
I've just been notified of something curious which I was unaware of.

With this the formatting of the infobox's caption was changed from:

to:

It seems that the bolding was gratuitous and incorrect to boot. Can any one enlighten me as to why this change occurs? --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 15:52, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you should post this at the bugs page. AWB bolds the article title when the lead paragraph has no bold text. My guess is that the complicated infobox confused the code into thinking this line was part of the lead paragraph. Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the source code. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:50, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

AWB vs. WP:NOTBROKEN
Why is AWB asking me to bypass a redirect to a template and point the link directly at the original page (end box → s-end)?? Is there a policy/guideline that allows it explicitly? I am asking this because it seems that it "contravenes WP:NOTBROKEN", many thanks in advance Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 19:38, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * As long as you're making another substantive edit (like fixing a typo), there's nothing wrong with it since you're already making an edit. What NOTBROKEN means, is that you shouldn't make an edit just to bypass a redirect. Legoktm (talk) 19:44, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, then it's not that I am being disruptive unknowingly or anything like that if I make it along with a big edit, right? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 19:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Except when editing inside navigation templates, per WP:BRINT. --Izno (talk) 22:38, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Which wasn't the case here. Please see User talk:Mrt3366 for my post that prompted this. There are five example edits there: I can provide plenty more if desired. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:06, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It was my point only to clarify an exception. --Izno (talk) 23:37, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Edits such as and  violate the AWB rules of use (shown at WP:AWB). The benefit of replacing redirects is dubious when it is done in conjunction with other edits, but there is no benefit at all to replacing them without making any other edit. The Mediawiki software has no difficulty at all dealing with the redirects.

As a matter of practice, replacing them only become disruptive when done on a large scale. If an editor makes 10 content edits to an article and then changes some redirects, nobody will blink an eye. But going though numerous articles solely to replace redirects should be avoided. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 23:11, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Just a note about the S-end and like templates. If the article is, or is going to be, in a Book (i.e. in the Book namespace) then it needs to be S-end not the other. Although the Media wiki software has no problems as you put it, the software that creates and runs the books does have problems with some of these it seems. Particularly with tables. This has come up several times before (no I am not going on an easter egg hunt for diffs) because frankly CBM fails to accept them anyway and blames it on other things because he vehemently refuses to accept that under some circumstances Template redirects cause problems. Other redirects work fine, but templates sometimes cause problems. I would also note that because templates use parameters, if AWB is used to do something with those parameters, then it becomes a real pain to compensate for what can be thousands of variations of the template. In these cases standardization is good and makes things much more efficient and easy for editors to use. Kumioko (talk) 00:30, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * [sigh] Thank you Kumioko. Much obliged. I don't know why it's being framed as a "big deal". Yes, I will be better off avoiding such edits where I am asked to only bypass template-redirects. But why is this over-emphasis on the violation? Is this why I opened the thread?? A small note on my talk is more than enough. When I didn't cause any disruption I am astonished to see these over-emphatic citations of the facts that I have crossed AWB rules of use a number of times and that there are "plenty more" where I replaced a redirect to a template with the original link (which according to some is a positive edit, far from disruption anyway)! Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 08:28, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added template redirects as an exception there, and cited this discussion in Wikipedia_talk:Redirect. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:02, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

And yes... there is one more similar discussion in Bot_requests. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That is slightly different as it is about an article redirect, where NOTBROKEN applies even more clearly. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 00:19, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you misunderstood (or I have) what the editor really wants to do. Anyway, AWB can't be used to create a page move bot anyway. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Why WP:NOTBROKEN does not and should not pertain to templates
Just to help prove how WP:NOTBROKEN does not and should not apply to Template redirects, let me explain one problem that comes about from using template redirects and how they differ from Article redirects:

When a regular article is redirected its a simple matter of directing it to the other article. Articles do not have categorization or parameters associated to them. In most cases when a template is redirected however there are parameters or categories that are affected or not affected by redirecting the template. One great example is when a WikiProject template redirect points to the main Template for a particular project. As an example I have redirected Template:WikiProject Utah/sandbox to point to Template:WikiProject United States which supports WikiProject Utah. In my sandbox I applied Template:WikiProject Utah/sandbox which then redirects it to fall under WikiProject United States.

If you look at my sandbox it shows that the template is WikiProject United States with no mention of Utah even though the template is clearly for Utah, Because yes cannot be set by a redirect. It also does not generate the appropriate categorization as done by the template. In order for this to work as a redirect you must add some code to the template redirect such as was done to Template:WikiProject Utah to generate the necessary categories and force the Utah parameter to display. Even still it does not support all of the parameters and categorization as using the main WikiProject United States template with applicable parameters set. This is just one example of why Template redirects are not the same as article redirects and why arguments that a template redirect is just as good as using the template itself is just flat wrong. Kumioko (talk) 00:45, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish, but the redirect can apply Utah=yes. Here is a permlink showing it. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:23, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You are correct you can do that to a point, but that has its limitations. What I was trying to accomplish, and I believe did, was to show that Template redirects are not just simple redirects but can and do require additional things to make them work. Where as if we don't use template redirect's, but the actual template, then we don't have that problem. Honestly, who besides a very experiences user would think to user Yes in that instance when the template clearly says Utah in it already? Not many I wager, its counter intuitive. Kumioko (talk) 01:28, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * But the WP Utah template is not a redirect. The problem seems to be that the Utah template needs to be improved to add full functionality; that has nothing to do with redirects or AWB. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:32, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


 * If what you want is for Template:WikiProject Utah to call Template:WikiProject United States, adding the Utah=yes parameter and passing through all the other parameters, then the problem is that you didn't want WikiProject Utah to be a redirect in the first place, you wanted it to be a separate template that invokes the WPUS template. The whole point of redirects is that they are complete synonyms; using any redirect is supposed to give you exactly the same results as using the original template. If something other than that is desired, the redirect should not be a redirect, it should invoke the main template as necessary. If it does not support all the parameters the the main WPUS template does, that is because the WP Utah template is broken and needs to be fixed. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:26, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


 * You are still missing the point. Many templates are not complete synonyms and that's the point I have been trying to make with you for the last several years. This is not a mathematical right and wrong, black and white situation. There is a whole lot of grey, blue and even some green and yellow mixed in. Many templates do not operate the way you indicate a redirect works. Again for an article its pretty cut and dry and I agree with that. For templates it isn't and I could name literally hundreds of templates that operate just the way I described and how you explain are not really redirects at all, but they are, and they are exactly why, the argument you are trying to sell to those of use that know better, that template redirects are just regular old run of the mill redirects just isn't true. In some cases you are right, its just a matter of redirecting but mayby templates don't work right because they have been redirected as I have described above. Kumioko (talk) 01:36, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Also in regards to the WP Utah template that is just an example. The reason that template doesn't currently contain all the functionality is as I explained in detail above. It is meant to be a redirect but redirecting that template to WPUS doesn't work so we had to use a wrapper template to trick it into allowing certain things to work so it displayed with the Utah parameter and generates a couple categories. Without that, as a regular redirect, it just doesn't work. Kumioko (talk) 01:39, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * But if the template is not a redirect (like WP Utah is not a redirect), and it cannot be made into redirect because that would not work (like WP Utah), then that template is irrelevant to the issue of whether to replace template redirects. When people are talking about redirects they really mean redirects, like Template:cn. The example you gave, WP Utah, is a template that cannot be a redirect in the first place - it is not "meant to be a redirect", because it is not a synonym of WP United States, it has a different meaning. I think you seem to be misusing the word "redirect" to mean "a template that is closely related to another template". &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:43, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Awwbut its not irrelevent because it is a redirect as far as the majority of the community is concerned. And there are many thousands more, some are WikiProjects, many are not. The Utah scenario I gave is just one. It isn't a hard redirect because I needed it and many others to display certain parameters and generate certain categories so they are instead soft redirects by means of using a wrapper template which allows those parameters and categories to display. As I just stated on your talk page though I am done arguing about this. Several users asked for a scenario and I have given one. I do not expect you to agree and in fact I expect you to continue to argue that its not the redirects fault but in the end the decision isn't mine or yours its the communities and whatever consensus comes out the rest of us has to deal with it. Kumioko (talk) 01:54, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it is a redirect in the eyes of the part of the community that does not know what a redirect is. But by the time people begin trying to work out the policy about template redirects, they need to invest the time to figure out what the words mean.


 * Let me explain how the software tells if a page is a redirect. There is a field, page_is_redirect, in the page table of the database. If that field is set to 1, the page is a redirect; otherwise it is not. The only way to set that field is to use the #redirect syntax on the page.


 * The scenario you gave is a good example where a template cannot be a redirect because of the semantics that Mediawiki puts on redirects (in particular, they cannot do different things depending on the name under which they were invoked). But it is not relevant to the issue of AWB users replacing redirects with their targets - doing that has no effect at all. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 02:00, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


 * First I want to say thanks I didn't know about that field but since I do not have any admin rights or access to the API or access to the toolserver, it doesn't really do the majority of us any good. Also your last paragraph summarazes the problem pretty well actually they cannot do different things depending on the name under which they were invoked. That is why we are forced to use wrapper templates. But the point is that we shouldn't have to use thousands of wrapper templates in place of redirects, because redirects do not work well for templates, just to prove that you are right. That in fact proves you are wrong. The act of converting a template redirect into a wrapper template in order for it to work then that by its very definition and complication proves without a shadow of a doubt that template redirects cause problems. Kumioko (talk) 02:16, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's absurd. It's like saying that if I have to put down a wrench and pick up a screwdriver in order to drive a screw, it's proof that my wrenches "cause problems", and so I should get rid of my wrenches. Redirects and transclusions in Mediawiki are meant to serve different purposes. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 02:22, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting analogy but wrong again. I understand that you don't agree template redirects cause problems and its obvious you will say just about anything to justify your position but you have already proved that there are situations where they don't work. Your right transclusions and redirects are different. But you are just trying to confuse the discussion here. Using the example above WPUtah isn't transcluded into WPUS, its redirected to it using a wrapper template because a simple Template redirect doesn't work. You said it about three times yourself. Here and on your User talk page. The fact remains that under certain circumstances including the scenario given above in this discussion, template redirects can cause problems. Kumioko (talk) 02:30, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * WP Utah does transclude WP US. WP Utah is not a redirect; that's the point of using the wrapper template. You cannot "redirect using a wrapper template"; as I pointed out above the only way to make a redirect is to use the #redirect syntax. The only "problem" with WP Utah seems to be that it needs to be edited to accept all the parameters that WP US does. There was never a need to replace it on talk pages, but even that is irrelevant to the issue of replacing template redirects. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 02:38, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * OMG this is getting really frustrating Carl. Yes WPUtah is not a template redirect, because template redirects do not work in this scenario, that is why we have to use a wrapper template as a redirect. No the WPUtah template does not need to be a full template, that would completely nullify the point of it redirecting to WPUS. Then it would just be a separate template. Replacing templates as I have stated before depends on perspective and the end result. If the template doesn't need to have parameters then there is no need to replace it. If the template does need parameters and you do not care if they work, then there is no need to replace it. If you do not care if the templates categorization logic applies to articles using template redirects. Then it doesn't need to be replaced. But otherwise, it does. Kumioko (talk) 02:46, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Now you're saying that since there are some screws that we cannot tighten with our wrenches, we should replace all the bolts with screws so that we never have to use wrenches at all. If you want the categorization logic to work in WP Utah, you do not need to replace it on talk pages, you just have to fix the template itself to have that logic. WP Utah is a separate template, not a redirect, exactly like Template:WikiProject United States is separate from Template:WikiProjectBannerMeta. Anyone who thought it should be a redirect was wrong. Redirects are for synonyms, not for special cases that add additional parameters to a more general template. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 02:57, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Carl stop trying to confuse the discussion. That's not what I am trying to say so stop trying to make this into an I'm right and your wrong thing. At this point just stop posting and I will too. Lets let the rest of the community participate on this discussion for a while without the 2 of us butting heads. Its obvious neither of us are going to change the others mind so its stupid for us to sit here and argue about it. The fact that no one else is commenting is enough to make me want to drop it. If we are the only ones who care to comment then its not that important of an issue. Kumioko (talk) 03:02, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

break 1

 * I'm not trying to confuse the discussion. I think we have agreed that Template:WikiProject Utah is not, in fact, a redirect, and that it cannot be a redirect to Template:WikiProject United States because it is not a literal synonym of that template. What I cannot see is how it is relevant in any way to the issue of bypassing template redirects like Template:Fact within articles using AWB. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:08, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No we do not agree. Not at all and I don't think we ever will. Your assessment is a gross misinterpretation of what I am saying to meet your own conclusions. I see no reason to continue to argue this with you. Kumioko (talk) 03:13, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * So do you maintain that Template:WikiProject Utah is a redirect, or that it would work to redirect it to Template:WikiProject United States? You said above, "Yes WPUtah is not a template redirect, because template redirects do not work in this scenario, that is why we have to use a wrapper template as a redirect." Which is what I thought we agreed on. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:16, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I maintain that Template:WikiProject Utah should be a redirect but that Template redirects don't work for templates requiring parameters. This is why it has to be a Wrapper template and by virtue of that it is a template and not a redirect. But if template redirects worked as you have argued so fervently in the past then we wouldn't have a problem. But they don't so here we are. Kumioko (talk) 03:23, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That clarifies the issue, which is that you misunderstood how redirects are supposed to work. They are not intended for situations like the WP Utah template. Template redirects work just fine for the purposes for which they are intended.


 * In particular, redirects do work for templates that take parameters. For example, it works perfectly well to pass any parameters we want to Template:Fact. But when we want to have a subtemplate that invokes a metatemplate while setting various parameters to fixed values and also taking other optional parameters, in the way Template:WikiProject United States invokes Template:WikiProjectBannerMeta, that is not a problem that redirects were ever intended to solve. In the language of C++, a redirect is just a typedef but WPUS is a subclass of WPBM. Mediawiki does not have a built in way to directly subclass templates, instead we have to use wrapper templates to achieve the effect. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Carl I just used that as an example, its one of many. I could give more but there's no point. You have already made this discussion so long its an endurance test most editors aren't going to waste time on. I'm sorry I even started the damn thing knowing you were going to twist this around to meet your arguments. We don't agree, I know perfectly well how these things work and you know it your just trying to discredit me by confusing the discussion with complex programming shit few are going to understand. I stopped editing WP articles because of editors like you twisting everything so you win. It doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong because you are going to do anything to block any suggestion to clean up all the crap. You would rather have a bunch of confusing redirects and other garbage lingering out there that some of us want to clean up but we can't because some jerk wants to be a cry baby and stomp their feet and get their way. I'm done with this discussion. Kumioko (talk) 03:49, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you have an example that actually involves a template redirect that should be a redirect? What about the problem you claimed with the books generator - do you have an example of that? &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:50, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi guys! I just looked at WP:AWB/TR and it appears that AWB is not set up to automatically change any WikiProject templates. Since this is the talk page for AWB, could you please bring the conversation back around to the usage of AWB? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 04:02, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * @Carl: An example of redirects that should 'not be bypassed are the redirects of Infobox officeholder. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:38, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Running in Linux through Wine
For those of you who have managed to get AWB running in Linux, I'd appreciate your help figuring out what I'm supposed to do. I'm running Linux Mint 14, and I've installed both Wine and Mono (when I tried to install gdiplus Winetricks gave me "mono does not appear to be installed" popup so I installed Mono using apt-get). I believe my installation is 32-bit, since I applied the WINEARCH command specified here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wine#Using_WINEARCH. I'm rather new to Wine, so I can't say for sure. The commands specified in AutoWikiBrowser/Mono_and_Wine don't work in the command line, so they were of little use to me. I used the Winetricks GUI to install .NET 2.0 and Gdiplus. When I right-click on AutoWikiBrowser.exe and open it with Wine Windows Program Loader, the cursor changes to the busy circle icon for a while, but nothing else happens. I can open it with Mono, but I get a popup saying that it isn't supported, and when I press OK, AWB throws an exception. Please help. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 06:03, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I did get it working on CrossOver, the "paid" version of Wine. Main differences between Wine and CrossOver is that CrossOver gets the updates to wine first and a much easier installer for adding software.  The two things I installed that were special to get AWB running were .NET 2.0 and IE7.  Mono is not needed.  IE7 is needed to login.  Bgwhite (talk) 09:39, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's worked for me under the free Wine. On opensuse steps were: install wine, winetricks. Set wine architecture flag to 32-bit (don't recall exactly how this is done). Then use winetricks to install ie6, dotnet20, gdiplus. AWB then runs, main problems in general use seem to be that diffs get appended to the existing diff rather than replaced, and timeouts on save seem more common. However, other common actions work fine. I'm not using it under Wine at the moment as incomplete mono support means I'm still tied to Windows for AWB development. Rjwilmsi  11:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll try that. Thanks for the help to you both. What do you mean about the diffs? Is this a significant problem? &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 20:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It runs! Thanks SO MUCH! :) I'll update the Wine page with this information. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 01:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Underlinked after Dead end?
AWB is asking me to add Underlinked after Dead end. Isn't it kind of redundant? What should I do? Mr T (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 13:35, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not redundant. Deadend should be added additionally to Underlinked if no wikilinks. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:37, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. I just had to make sure. Thank you. Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 13:54, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's right. Dead end is a more specific version of underlinked, there's no need to apply both tags to an article. They both effectively say the same thing: this article needs more links. DoctorKubla (talk) 16:39, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * AWB has done that to me too. I usually choose Dead End over Underlinked as it seems like a stronger call-to-action. They are very similar, one means there's no links and more should be added, and the other means there's not enough links and more should be added. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 16:43, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

It seems something changed to the documentation then. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:53, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * See . That was just a few minutes after was created to replace . Anyway, to me, the difference between  and  is the same as the difference between  and . -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:23, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed, that is a good analogy. There is a subtle difference between the two that means that only one is required in an article needing internal links.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  18:10, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Where to from here then? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 09:21, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You could send a bug report or feature request?  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  20:11, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's more of an enhancement than a bug, so a feature request seems slightly more appropriate. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 20:39, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

AWB incorrectly rearranging page
Donald A. McLean currently has its DEFAULTSORT and categories in the correct place, immediately after the Persondata. Using general fixes, AWB wants to rearrange things, so they're ahead of the Persondata. I've been doing lots of DEFAULTSORTs, and I've never seen this behavior before. I don't see any reason for this strange change. M AN d ARAX •  XAЯA b ИA M  00:33, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Badly commented out references I guess. Now it's OK. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:55, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's very odd that a syntactically correct comment would cause that to happen. But, as I said, that's the only time I've seen such behavior, so I'm not going to worry about it.... M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  01:49, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe the references is not hidden or something. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:38, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I encountered the same problem today with George McLeod (British Columbia politician). It's not unreasonable that someone would comment out a References section when there are no references. AWB should be able to handle this situation correctly. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  03:17, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No changes for me on McLeod article on SVN. On what AWB version is there a problem for you? Rjwilmsi  09:04, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * SVN 8686. It tries to rearrange this version such that the end of the page is: the DEFAULTSORT and categories, followed by one blank line, then Persondata, one blank line, then stub. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  09:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No changes for me in SVN 8748. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:08, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Reproduced on snapshot. Does not occur on SVN. Adds a unit test for this. So thanks for report, now fixed.  Rjwilmsi  10:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

How do I use this thing?
How do I use this? And what purpose does it serve? I would like to edit several things easier. There are over 100 pages I am watching and they have some sort of typo. I hope I am in the right place. Tinton5 (talk) 03:30, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you see AutoWikiBrowser? And the lead paragraph of AutoWikiBrowser explains its purpose. Sorry these answers aren't too specific, but I'm not sure what specific problems you're encountering. -- JHunterJ (talk) 03:33, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

"Server committed a protocol violation"
I hadn't used AWB for a while, and when I came to do so earlier today it informed me that the version of the software I was using had been disabled, so I downloaded the latest version, 5.4.0.0. But now I'm being told on initialisation that "The server committed a protocol violation. Section=ResponseStatusLine". I'm running Wine 1.2 under Ubuntu version 10.04 with Mono 2.8.2. Everything was working fine with the older version of AWB. Any idea what might have gone wrong? Malleus Fatuorum 23:16, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you at the "Robin Hood". You must have had one too many if you are thinking about going to the dark side.
 * I'm not aware that AWB can run under Mono. 3.0 version of Mono was released a few months back, but I haven't tried that.  See up above on getting it running under Wine or CrossOver on Linux.  Bgwhite (talk) 00:15, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The Robin Hood closed some time ago, so unless I've been locked in I'm not there. AWB doesn't run under Mono, but requires Mono. And as I said, everything was working perfectly well until I was forced to upgrade to AWB 5.4.0.0. I've tried both Wine and Crossover, but the reported server error persists. Malleus Fatuorum 00:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What makes you say AWB requires mono to run under Wine? Rjwilmsi  09:06, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My mis-reading of the documentation. But the problem is real nevertheless and remains unaddressed. If I have to, I'll download the source code and fix the problem myself, but I'd prefer if it was fixed for everyone. Malleus Fatuorum 22:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm able to run AWB release 5.4.0.0 under wine, don't see any server violation errors that you mention. Rjwilmsi  09:31, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I'll just fix the problem you don't see myself. Malleus Fatuorum 09:36, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll be happy to help if we can diagnose an underlying problem in the AWB code. From the information you've given so far, and since it doesn't occur for me, I'm not sure what I can do to help at this point. Rjwilmsi  09:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There are only two possible explanations for the server violation error, both of which are to do with the way that http requests are handled. I don't need your help to fix the problem, but perhaps you need mine. Malleus Fatuorum 10:08, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

One typo to another?
Implicted to implicited?? Both are mistakes since implicit is an adjective and not a verb. Implicate or imply might be workable replacements. Need opinions on what to do. Should I report it as a bug? Mr T (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 14:00, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Please report at Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Typos. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 14:50, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Removing CinemaoftheUK template
AWB is removing the CinemaoftheUK template from various titles with the comment "Removed generic template that the article is not listed in". There aren't any films listed in that template. It's a generic template that links to genres, years of production, studios and other things like that related to British Cinema. I don't think that "that the article is not listed in" is a valid reason for removing the template -- SteveCrook (talk) 02:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you please give some examples? It doesn't sound like AWB default functionality.  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 04:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * See here - "Removed generic template that the article is not listed in, removed: CinemaoftheUK using AWB" -- SteveCrook (talk) 15:26, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Different editors use AWB for different tasks. You should ask about these edits at User talk:jonkerz. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * But note that those edits are compliant with the guidelines for navigation templates. WP:CLN: "...every article that transcludes a given navbox should normally also be included as a link in the navbox so that the navigation is bidirectional." DoctorKubla (talk) 16:52, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well if that's the case they've got a lot more work to do. The template is linked to from thousands of articles about British films and doesn't mention any of them -- SteveCrook (talk) 19:49, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Alerts
The user manuals says, "Hint If you have "Highlight errors" activated in Options menu, alerts become clickable and clicking focuses the edit box on the first highlighted alert after the current cursor position. Clicking again (with the cursor after the alert) will focus the next highlighted alert, if there is one. Note that not all alerts are highlighted." In 5.4.0.0, I am not seeing anywhere to set "Highlight errors." kcylsnavS 00:06, 17 December 2012 (UTC) kcylsnavS 00:12, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's on the pull-down menu. Under "Options". -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:08, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Och! I was just about to erase my question, then saw you had already answered - and you are, of course, completely correct!
 * Btw, thanks for updating the manual! -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:19, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Skip talk pages
Is there a setting to skip talk pages, user pages, &c.? Or, better yet, to skip pages where the only change would be to add "==Untitled=="? kcylsnavS 00:23, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Before starting to process your list of pages, click the Filter button, uncheck the boxes next to those types of pages you don't want to process, and click Apply.
 * For your second question, what types of fixes are you trying to do? GoingBatty (talk) 00:31, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh, cool, thanks. Some talk pages the user had entered a couple of line breaks which AWB took to mean there should be a new section. (I think I skipped all of those, at least I hope so.) I would like those changes not to be offered. kcylsnavS 00:33, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Any examples of AWB's unwanted behaviour are welcome. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Article AutoWikiBrowser
Is there a reason that the page AutoWikiBrowser does not redirect to the AWB page? It looks like it used to but was deleted. Andrew (talk) 06:15, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * See Cross-namespace redirects - redirects from mainspace to non-mainspace pages aren't permitted, as they don't make sense on sites like Ask.com, BBC Music and Qwiki which are based around a scrape of the Wikipedia mainspace database. Mogism (talk) 11:07, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining. Andrew (talk) 15:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Loading (infinity)
Hello wikipedia editors. It's been a while since I was using the AWB on other wikis, then it suddently keeps glitching.

When I try to save a page, it says "Saving" then "Restarting in (number)". I do not know how to fix this, and I red all the FAQ or suggestions, but I cannot find any. Thanks, Jr Mime (talk) 22:39, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Which page? -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Any pages I can find, like ANY. Also, I run it on the RuneScape wiki. Jr Mime (talk) 23:47, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So, please find the problem! :P I'm running Windows 7 and AWB version 5400. Chrome opened at the same time. Jr Mime (talk) 00:22, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have found the error, I just deleted everything AutoWikiBrowser in my computer, restarted, and it worked! Yay! Jr Mime (talk) 23:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Awesome! -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:08, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Version 8782 or higher?
Where could I find AWB version 8782 or higher (underlinked and dead-end fix)? I have curbed my AWB-edits precisely because of that bug. Now it has been fixed and I was eagerly awaiting its arrival until I saw use 8829. Hence, I presume version 8782 or higher is already available somewhere. Can someone please tell me Where I can get a hold on either one of them (link please)? P.S. I don't want an experimental or nigh-unstable version beyond 8782. As for 8782, experimental or not, I will make do with it. Mr T (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 12:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Some people download the sources to make their own version, while some of us eagerly await the next SVN snapshot. GoingBatty (talk) 03:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * No problem. I would be happy to help. Just send me a message using Special:EmailUser so that I know your e-mail addresses and I will send you a pre-compiled copy of AWB to both of you. --Meno25 (talk) 11:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind offer - email sent! GoingBatty (talk) 17:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * A copy of AWB was sent. Happy editing. --Meno25 (talk) 17:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I/O error under Wine
I'm trying to run AWB in Linux Mint 14. I deleted my old .wine folder, I followed the guide for setting up Wine, AWB launches, I logged in, and I can load a category, but after I hit "Start", AWB indicates that it's "Processing page" but I get a popup: "Could not load file or assembly 'System.core, Version=3.5.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089' or one of its dependencies. Exception from HRESULT: 0x80070002". I suspect that this is related to .NET because I recall the term "PublicKeyToken" appeared on the screen during its installation. Any ideas on what I should do? AWB still works with .NET 2.0 (per the Wine guide) or do I need to upgrade? • Jesse V.(talk) 20:31, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've had the same problem. While on Windows features from .NET 3.5 can be used fine within the .NET 2.0 runtime, this doesn't seem to be the case under Wine, not sure why. To work around it I've got a couple of patches to do genfixes without the v 3.5 features, makes it slightly slower but then works. So I can provide you the patches if you've access to a Windows machine to build AWB from source, or I can find a fileshare site to post a zip of a Wine snapshot build for you? Rjwilmsi  21:05, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ahh thanks for the explanation! I finally proceeded through the caution and warning popups from WINE about .NET 3.5, and I'm installing it right now. I have a dual-boot setup (though I'm in Mint 95% of the time) so I can boot into Windows if need be, or you could email me the zip if really necessary. I'm hoping a regular installation of 3.5 will make AWB faster and more reliable than your patches; do you know if this is so? &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 21:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I tried  but it didn't seem to work (I forget exactly what happened or not).  Rjwilmsi  01:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I ran into this bug with 3.5's installation, but when I can finish everything else off I'll try AWB and see if it works. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 01:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It appears that installing dotnet35 fixed the problems. I also installed gdiplus, but not any of the Internet Explorers. :) I've disabled error highlighting and the like, and my saves do appear to be working. However, when AWB shows a proposed diff, it doesn't appear to overwrite the previous diff, rather it just appends it. Consequently the main window has the long list of diffs, which is confusing. Is this a problem with the latest snapshot (I haven't tested it in Windows 7), is this a setting, or have I misconfigured something? &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 01:53, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, when running in pre-parse mode through a list of articles, it doesn't automatically scroll to where AWB is working. This is annoying because I have no indication of how much progress AWB has made through the list. I'm just wondering if you saw this behavior. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 04:51, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Good news re dotnet35, on opensuse that didn't seem to install correctly, I'll try again. Re diff, yes, that's why you need to install Internet Explorer. Re scrolling, yes, have seen it, don't know any solution. Rjwilmsi  10:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have confirmed that gdiplus is not necessary for running AWB. I will try installing IE and see if that fixes the problem. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 17:27, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Installing IE fixed the problem. I chose IE8 because it's more up-to-date and more secure (well, as much as it can be by MS standards...). I wonder what it is about IE that makes it work. I noticed Winetricks lists other components as installed: I wonder which one of them actually fixed it. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 02:06, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH FILE LINKS
Sorry for shouting but AWB users sometimes break image links. The latest is here. It is hard enough clearing the backlog at Category:Articles with missing files without this sort of carry on. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Complain to me about my edits, no need to make a wider notice. Rjwilmsi  01:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Marked ad "resolved". Rjw responded in their talk page and problem fixed. Not an AWB issue really since it was not done by AWB's built-in functions. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:32, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Imagine an AWB where the two "Ignore..." checkboxes on the Find & Replace configuration dialog were replaced with something offering separate options for everything that these checkboxes currently affect.
 * For example, I don't want to change any file names, since I've never got into asking for files to be renamed; but I do want my regexps to be run on the interwiki links, since that sometimes highlights mis-named pages in other Wikipedias. I leave the "Ignore..." checkboxes unticked, and try to be careful. So far I've avoided damaging any file names, as far as I know, but it is only a matter of time before I make this mistake. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:59, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Example
Why do AWB users insert a space between a level 2 heading and an immediately following level 3 heading, as above? It does not make any difference to the onscreen version, but it spreads out the edit screen, making it less convenient to edit articles because less text is displayed. At a minimum, I would say that this should be something that the regular editors of an article decide, rather than people who are just stopping by to proofread. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:11, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * We implement the guidance at MOS:HEAD "Include one blank line above the heading". Rjwilmsi  20:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yes, that guidance is helpful in most cases, so that you can easily find headings on the edit screen, but it should not apply where there are two consecutive headings, because there already is a space above the first one, so you don't need another space between the two.  Is there any way to make an exception in the feature with respect to two or more consecutive headings?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:28, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * MOS:HEAD doesn't say that, I don't know whether everybody would agree with you. If you discuss & agree that clarification over at the MOS pages and MOS:HEAD includes the clarification I'll update AWB accordingly. Rjwilmsi  21:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, will do. Thanks, and happy holidays. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Database search
can someone give me rough idea how i can do a database search for specific terms such i can add a category to those pages i find, as there is far to many articles for me to manually do it and there is some i dnt even know about and i stumble upon every now and then Andrewcrawford ( talk  -  contrib ) 20:13, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You can set up AlexNewArtBot to get a list of any newly created articles that contain certain words. You can then process the list using AWB. I am not sure how you deal with old articles --Racklever (talk) 21:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Using AWB to update an article's importance level for its project
I would like to apply importance levels easily to a number of articles. This is an outstanding "to do" item for the project which has been open for many, many months. The magicword on each article's talk page will be something like this:

The field will show up as |importance= but so long as the field is blank (i.e. followed by by | or }}, I would like to be able to change it to |importance=high or |importance=mid or |importance=low or whatever is applicable. Can someone walk me through how to do this? I am not in any way savvy with regular expressions. Thanks to all and every. kcylsnavS 23:48, 26 December 2012 (UTC) kcylsnavS  01:15, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Load a list of all articles you want to mark as high importance and try  →
 * Then repeat for mid and low articles by changing the replace text. Good luck! GoingBatty (talk) 00:23, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, well, I have have outsmarted you, sir, by being unclear in my question. The problem, you see, is that there's no way to grab a subset of all articles I want to mark with this importance level or that. I have to load them all and then decide on a case by case basis which article has what importance level. What I'd like to know how to do is load all of the articles in the project with an unknown importance level. I can get all the articles in the project through the category but don't know how to filter for unknown importance, i.e., what to put in the "keep titles containing" field. Um, OK, I listed all the pages in the category of unknown-importance-level pages and put   in the "Keep titles containing" field of the filter, but most of the pages were skpped, because importance= isn't on the page at all (or isn't in the project for that page). What to do now?
 * You could stick with that and go once through the list to populate all the templates that already have importance. Then go through again with another F&R rule:
 * Hope this helps! GoingBatty (talk) 04:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hope this helps! GoingBatty (talk) 04:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Yet another "Restarting in..." issue
A quick skim of the archives suggests that this one keeps popping up regularly. It gets resolved by a reinstall or whatever but the root cause has never been tracked down and addressed. My version...

AWB was working fine for a while then stared giving "Restarting in..." for every file. After the restart the file has not been saved. I've deleted every AWB file I can find on this computer then downloaded a fresh copy. Same problem. One oddity, the Default Edit Summaries list still contains a line I added prior to the new download. A search for all files on all drives that contain this string turned up nothing. So where are the edit summaries kept? And what exactly, in terms an idiot could understand, causes "Restarting in..."? -Arb. (talk) 14:25, 27 December 2012 (UTC) kcylsnavS 19:09, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The edit summaries are part of your settings, which are stored in the Default.xml file. Per the FAQ above, this file is found in the folder "C:\Documents and Settings\user name\Local Settings\Application Data\AutoWikiBrowser" (Windows XP) or "C:\Users\user name\AppData\Local\AutoWikiBrowser\" (Windows 7). Hope this helps!  GoingBatty (talk) 15:01, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup. Thanks. Deleting the directory you suggest and my AWB application directory then reinstalling has fixed the problem. That suggests that some kind of "corruption" in a file under "C:\Documents and Settings\user name\Local Settings\Application Data\AutoWikiBrowser" or "C:\Users\user name\AppData\Local\AutoWikiBrowser\" is the root cause. Be good if someone could figure out how this happens and prevent it. -Arb. (talk) 17:12, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Having saved my first special settings file just the other day, I couldn't help but notice that AWB wanted to save the file to the desktop (AWB is run from a subdirectory, not the desktop). I suggest the better thing would before the AWB to use the same location as default.xml as the location for saving settings file. (For what it's worth, the name I was offered was default.xml (not Default.xml)).

Usage on an external MediaWiki site?
Hi, just wondering if this can be used on external MediaWiki sites or is it just limited to Wikipedia itself? Aqueously (talk) 19:50, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It can be used on external sites. There's a configuration tab at Options > Preferences > Site. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:05, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

AVG Identity protection
Just fired up AWB's database scanner to refresh my memory on a couple of things, and it is triggering AVG. V5.3.1.1 SN 7839( 2011-09-13 15:25:50)

Rich Farmbrough, 19:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC).

Dead link
Is there some way to set AWB not to alert for dead links, to just ignore them? RiverStyx23 01:54, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

AWB hangs while loading La Academia
Well it does. Don't know why, but I have to give XP the "three-fingered-salute" and kill the program. (If I remove the article from the list, AWB soldiers on just fine.) Thoughts? RiverStyx23 16:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's OK for me (5.4.0.1/8759 on 64-bit win7). The next question will be 'what version are you running?'.  Mr Stephen (talk) 17:23, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi RiverStyx23! From looking at your edit summaries, it appears that you are running the regular 5.4.0.0 version.  You may want to try the most recent SVN snapshot, which also has lots of bug fixes.  Good luck!  GoingBatty (talk) 17:26, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Is the stapshot stable? RiverStyx23 19:35, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's stable and better than the 5.4.0.0 version. For example, the SVN version no longer adds wikify, which has been deprecated.  GoingBatty (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Then shouldn't the snapshot be officially released? It seems odd to recommend the snapshot over the official release all the time. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 04:56, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I always compile my own snapshot version. Most heavy users do run the lastest snapshot.  But, there are occasions where a bug was introduced and I had to revert to an older version.  Developers often rewrite code that takes several snapshots to complete.  There was recently some rewrites that increased processing speed.  So, long story, not every snapshot can be an official release. I personally think they should increase the number of stable releases as the last stable release took a year. Bgwhite (talk) 06:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The snapshots uploaded on the toolserver are stable, at least most of the time. Due to various problems we can't release more often. Compiling what we commit every time isn't stable. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:18, 7 January 2013 (UTC)


 * AWB will occasionally hang on pages, irregardless of what version you are running. Talk:List of people who have been called a polymath is one that hangs on me and I'm running the very latest snapshot. I haven't seen a rhyme or reason for it. Bgwhite (talk) 06:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * AWB will occasionally hang on pages, irregardless of what version you are running. Talk:List of people who have been called a polymath is one that hangs on me and I'm running the very latest snapshot. I haven't seen a rhyme or reason for it. Bgwhite (talk) 06:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Multiple Accounts
Hi, just a quick question - If I have the required 500 constructive mainspace edits needed in order to get approval for AWB on my primary Wikipedia account, is it possible to also get that permission on an alternate account used for semi-automated editing (also operated by mysef)? Cheers, Freebirdthemonk</i> <sup style="color:orange; font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;">Howdy!  02:51, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have 10 sock accounts and they all have AWB access :)  Yes, it is possible.  However, I'd get it for your main account first and use it for a bit. That way you get your feet wet first and see if you want to do even more with it.  Bgwhite (talk) 03:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help! Cheers, <i style="color:maroon; font-weight:normal; font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;">Freebirdthemonk</i> <sup style="color:orange; font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;">Howdy!  03:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikify
I find that AWB has helped me to add wikify to a couple of articles. The editor who pointed this out said "perhaps you can find a link to a snapshot of an updated version of AWB which no longer adds this template".

Please can someone provide a simple set of instructions as to how to get and start using a version which doesn't add Wikify. I'm using 5.4.0.0 at present and if I click on "Help", "Check for Updates" it says "No update available".

Yes, I know it's my responsibility to watch what I'm doing with AWB and I should have spotted and removed those tags. But it would be nice if AWB didn't add them for me! Pam D  13:08, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm using Firefox 18.0, in case that's relevant. Pam  D  13:09, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I got as far as looking at http://toolserver.org/~awb/snapshots/ but I hadn't a clue what to do with it. Pam  D  13:11, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * On that "snapshots" page, click the upper link "AutoWikiBrowser5401_rev8853.zip". The browser will respond with an Open/Save choice; choose Save. Once the file is downloaded, right-click on it and choose "Extract all". This will create a directory named "AutoWikiBrowser5401_rev8853". Double-click AutoWikiBrowser.exe within that folder - you are now running the new snapshot. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:47, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You could also open the .zip file and copy the files into the directory you already have for AWB. GoingBatty (talk) 16:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, John, that's just the step-by-step stuff I needed. Should something like that be in the FAQs, perhaps? Pam  D  21:48, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Russian Enable RegexTypoFix on personal wiki-project
I'm Sorry, I want to my private wiki-project use Typos of Russian Wikipedia, not English Wikipedia, because my language is a russian. Can I change something in the settings AWB? Thanks.--Parisse &#34;Anima&#34; nuaddal (talk) 18:42, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Typo Typo
I think, this typo fix was incorrect! --Tito Dutta (talk) 10:19, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It didn't match any rule specific to the word, but matched the rule for the -aly ending. You could fix those when they occur in AWB before saving. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The change was correct but the word originally had two typos and the rule only corrected one. So the 'ally' rule was find in this case. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 00:15, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit summary error
I am having issues with the automatic edit summary. It is displaying " " (see ). BOVINEBOY 2008 03:48, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It has to do with the edit summary you are using.
 * The entire summary says: disambiguate link, replaced: AWB . There are no closing brackets at the end of [[Devdas (2002 film) and [[Devdas (2002 Hindi film) .  Add closing brackets to your edit summary and things should work normal again.
 * FYI... I encourage you to get the latest AWB version here. Bgwhite (talk) 04:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If the edit summary is being automatically generated by the find & replace rules, you may want to change your rule to something like:
 *  \[\[Devdas \(2002 film\)(\|Devdas)?\]\]  →  \[\[Devdas \(2002 Hindi film\)$1\]\]  Good luck! GoingBatty (talk) 04:20, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Intentional underscores in links
According to WP:AutoWikiBrowser/General fixes, this AWB software removes underscores from links, and in many cases I have seen this done with good results. But in of the “stat (system call)” article, a bot removed the underscore from a link to time_t. In this case I believe the underscore should be displayed, and the change is not for the better. I raised this at User talk:Bgwhite, and got the response that there is some style guideline or rule that disallows underscores in links, unless you use a piped link, like time_t. Can anyone point me to such a rule or guideline? It would go against my expectations, and would also seem to contradict the way other editors write these links.

Alternatively, perhaps there is another solution to this problem. The time_t page is currently a redirect, but it was previously an article. It was in Category:Articles with underscores in the title, and also used the magic word. Do any of these prevent AWB removing underscores? Would any of these techniques also work for redirects that have incoming links?

Otherwise, if the only solution is a piped link, is it valid for a bot to automatically remove underscores from all unpiped links? Since I noticed the issue I found other instances which I believe are incorrect. Would it be practical to disallow an AWB bot from making these changes, while still allowing it to make other more useful AWB edits? Vadmium (talk, contribs) 07:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC).


 * The redirect time t does not contain an underscore in the title. With no underscore in the title, it does not belong in Category:Articles with underscores in the title.  Just do time_t like every other wikilink you want displayed differently.  Problem solved.  I just gave up with round after round of your refusal of doing time_t .  Bgwhite (talk) 07:43, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with time_t . Bots/AWB cannot peek at the linked article to look at its categories or its DISPLAYTITLE; that would be horribly inefficient. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:14, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

We have a list of pages that AWB should not remove underscores. AutoWikiBrowser/Pages with underscores in title. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:45, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * What does AWB do with this page? "Time t" is listed there, with a capital "T". -- John of Reading (talk) 09:04, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's case insensitive. It is supposed when time_t is found, it won't remove the underscore. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:11, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. In case I wasn’t clear, I’m not interested in changing any of the problem links to piped links myself. Anyway, I did a little digging, and found that AWB seems to hold a list of titles in Variables.UnderscoredTitles, loaded from categories via comments in the page Project:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage, and lo and behold, Category:Articles with underscores in the title is the one and only category in that page. Is this right? If so, are redirects allowed in that category? I don’t understand why they shouldn’t be. I would only suggest adding redirects that have incoming links. Vadmium (talk, contribs) 12:20, 19 January 2013 (UTC).
 * Maybe we can check for the redirects by taking advance of AutoWikiBrowser/Pages with underscores in title again. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:38, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's moot. There is no underscore in the title of time t, therefore no reason for it to be in AutoWikiBrowser/Pages with underscores in title.  What time t redirects to is irrelevant at it could redirect to anything... time.h, C time, Unix time, etc.   No need to look for a solution when no problem exists.  If a wikilink is being named different in the article, they are always treated with a pipe.  There are only 12 articles that use time t .  Change them to time_t problem solved.  KISS principle.  Bgwhite (talk) 02:46, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Adding one redirect to a category is simpler than changing twelve or so incoming links. Also, I do not understand why you keep saying there is no underscore in the title. The name time_t is an identifier and is always written with an underscore. Anyway, I think I’ll drop this issue and move on to more interesting stuff. :) Vadmium (talk, contribs) 02:31, 23 January 2013 (UTC).

How to?
Hello, I ask help here, because I think here is somebody who can help me. On the Finnish Wikipedia we have links like "wtatennis.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781~PROFILE ID,00.html", which should be changed to " ". How do I program AWB to do this? --Stryn (talk) 12:41, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If the "PROFILE ID" can never contain a comma, then try a "Find & Replace" with:


 * find:
 * replace:
 * case-sensitive and regex both ticked
 * This assumes only the "12781" figure will vary. If the zeroes vary as well, try finding  instead. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:57, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but I don't know why I can't find anything. "12781" doesn't vary, it's always the same number. --Stryn (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I've copied an example from fi:Samantha Stosur into User:John of Reading/X1. Is that a typical example? To make that work, it needs:
 * find:
 * replace:
 * case-sensitive and regex both ticked
 * You'll also need to make sure that the two "Ignore" checkboxes at the top left of the "Find & Replace" dialog are not ticked, since the string you are looking for is inside an external link in this case. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:47, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, thanks, now it works. Then I have another question. How to change link, which uses cite web (=Verkkoviite) template, like this one:
 * It should be changed to look like this:  --Stryn (talk) 16:14, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Try this:
 * find:
 * replace:
 * This doesn't check that the match is inside a "Verkkoviite" template, so will change any parameter named "Osoite". I think AWB is able to do template-specific matching, but I've never needed to learn how to do it. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:33, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Copying infobox from en to cy
This is the module:

I use CSV loader plugin.

My column headers are:


 * 1) ArticleTitle##~##country##~##static_image##~##static_image_caption##~##latitude##~##longitude##~##official_name##~##population##~##population_ref##~##civil_parish##~##unitary_england##~##lieutenancy_england##~##region##~##constituency_westminster##~##post_town##~##postcode_district##~##dial_code##~##os_grid_reference##

HOWEVER, my output file seems bugged:

Almeley~England~[[Image:Almeley01.jpg~Almeley village sign~52.15769~-2.97674~Almeley~521~(1971)~West Midlands~Hereford~| postcode_district       = HR3 6xx~HR3 6xx~ ~SO334516 Ashperton~England~ 52.07~-02.52~Ashperton~ West Midlands~|post_town= ~|postcode_district = ~ SO6441

as you can see: there's a pipe just before "postcode_district". It also seems to suck in another field name: "post_town". Any ideas, please? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 16:12, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Section break 1

 * The \r and \n have been hoovered up by the \s*. There is a utility in wikifunctions.dll that lets you extract specific fields from a template in a very elegant way.  I regret that my memory is not up to remembering where it is, and the documentation for the dll is on the sparse side.  The developers should be able to point you at it, and it should be somewhere in the talk page archives.  Mr Stephen (talk) 22:59, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * For example Tools.GetTemplateParameterValue. If any of the infobox parameters use nested templates, piped wikilinks or the like simple regexes may fall down. Rjwilmsi  11:28, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks Rjwilmsi. I tried it but it does not pull the value for country parameter. What is wrong with it? — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 04:51, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Your example doesn't work because your passing in the name of the template not the template call as used in the article. Think about this logically for a moment, if you only pass to a function the text "infobox UK place" and "country" the function is not going to find "England"/"Wales" or whatever the value is. Rjwilmsi  09:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, Rjwilmsi. I ran across a template code at User:BG19bot/Add listas and was able to finish the coding. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 05:27, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Still getting: Please make sure the column header matches the number of columns on file error. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:56, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Did you get the extract out with no issues? If yes, let us take this discussion back to your talk page. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 11:57, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Updating checkpage
I had Legoktm run a list at Wikipedia_talk:DBR of users who have AWB access who haven't made 30 edits in the last three years (30 edits total, not 30 AWB edits) or who are blocked. Would anyone object to me removing them from the AWB Checkpage?  MBisanz  talk 04:31, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I am OK with that. We can give rights back if we are asked. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:31, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Pagemove using AWB?
Is it possible to move (rename) pages using AWB? I want to do mass pagemoves on another language wiki (it will be just replacement of one particular char for another, wherever it appears in page-title). That means, what I want is, to have find-replace facility for page titles. If not possible by AWB then is there a bot available for the same?-Hemant wikikosh (talk) 09:45, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You can move pages, but only on an individual basis, no "find/replace". On en-wiki we only allow page moving within AWB for sysops. Rjwilmsi  12:26, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed- I am a sysop on Sanskrit Wikipedia, and want to do above activity for that wiki, using AWB. Any suggestion? With thanks. -Hemant wikikosh (talk) 17:44, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Start date template
I'd like to use AWB to make changes like and  (there's already RfC approval for such changes; but no volunteers at BOTREQ). Can someone help with coding it, please? We need to account for DMY and MDY formats. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:59, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Conversions of year, month+year or full date and allowing for DMY, MDY or YYYY-MM-DD is straightforward. How are you determining: whether it should be start date or birth date (or variant), what infoboxes to include, what parameters to include? Perhaps to start if you provide a list of the most common infobox&parameter combinations I'll write the rest. If we can genericise it sufficiently, and not encounter opposition, it can be an additional AWB genfix for en-wiki. Rjwilmsi  10:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Take a look at comments here before thinking about adding to AWB functionality. Keith D (talk) 12:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There is nothing there which precludes this task; also note the above-mentioned RfC. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:58, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I envisage running on an infobox-by-infobox basis, using "what links here". I'll get back to you shortly with more. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:58, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Keith, see your point. I will want to be abstracted from the decision as to whether a particular infobox field genuinely contains a start date/year or not, or some other data that is not a start. So I'll create a function that takes as inputs the page text, and a list of infobox names and parameter names; the function then applies the start date template conversion to those parameters and returns the updated text. Then I will have provided a generic facility to apply the start date template (meeting Andy's request) and the editors using will have to provide the judgement on the suitability of each infobox/parameter, keeping me away from that decision. If this were to be added to core AWB the list of infoboxes/templates would come from a rules page, so conceptually it would be like typo fixing: an engine whose parameters are community maintained. Rjwilmsi  14:59, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I have never seen a date with a start template where a simple date won't do. The community has decisively decided to eschew date auto-formatting, and I see little use for the template. It's often misused. Please take a look at the 60-odd unnecessary and resource-hungry templates  I had to remove in this example. The bot task needs to ensure that there is only ever one such template in each info box, otherwise the metadata gathering will be confused and inaccurate (and the metadata next to useless)--  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 01:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If by " a simple date", you mean plain text, then that is never a substitute for the templated, machine-readable version, because it is not machine readable. The templates concerned are not used for "date auto-formatting". We've had an RfC on this, which showed widespread support for using the templates. The former edit in the diff you cite is not correct usage; and is not what is proposed here. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:00, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

cy-Wiki link to Wkitionary (Wiciadur)
Hi all. I'd like to created a link on all articles on the Welsh Wicipedia which have a corresponding page on our Wikitionary (called Wiciadur). I can do this by placing a template on the Wicipedia articles e.g. this one. However the pagename has an uppercase letter where as all Wiciadur entries are lower case. I could then create redirects from upper to lower pagenames, or is there a better suggestion please? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 11:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

My question was answered (below). Many thanks. BOT-Twm Crys (talk) 12:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Verbatim/Exact/Case-senstive search
Is there any way to do case sensitive search in AWB (using AWB's search option)? For example "india", "hindi", "See Also" (and not "India", "Hindi", "See also")? --Tito Dutta (talk) 01:37, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've asked this question a few days ago, with no response: see Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser. Best of luck! - Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:53, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * What I've done is to convert the document in OpenOffice Calc from one case to the other, but this might not work fod you. You then have two columns: upper and lower case. And then crfeate a redirect page from "india" to "India". Llywelyn2000 (talk) 09:20, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I've just imported a list of lower case words; AWB then turns them into upper case, even though I had ticked the Start > case sensitive button. Can someone help, please? BOT-Twm Crys (talk) 13:13, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I can import an ansi text list with lower case names and they remain lower case initial letters. If that is not your issue, it may need some more detail. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:49, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * When I import a simple text file, all with lower case names, it appears in the list window and all names are upper case. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 00:52, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Not my experience, I created a dummy file with 5 entries, all mixed upper and lower case, and imported the list through the source: "text file (Windows/ANSI)" option, no capitalisation changes. — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:40, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm importing a Unicode Text file (UTF-8). I'm also using the CSV Loader. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:40, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I think what Titodutta was originally asking is how to search for lowercase words so he can convert them to uppercase. For example, searching for the word "india" in articles, so he can convert it to "India".  Bgwhite (talk) 07:55, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That can be done by downloading a (huge) database dump and using the database scanner. I don't know any easy way to do it. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:19, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * If that is the issue, it would possibly be just better to have them added as typos to AutoWikiBrowser/Typos. — billinghurst  sDrewth  08:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * On the original question, Wikipedia does not seem to support a case sensitive search, Help:Searching seems to say as much. You could do it via scanning a database dump. On first letter casing in the AWB list box, it depends on whether the project and language code you have logged in to is first letter upper (like en-wiki) or first letter lower (like English Wiktionary). By default, or before logging in, AWB will assume you're using en-wiki so convert to first letter upper. Rjwilmsi  09:43, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Many thanks RJW! In the meantime however, I found ; the "lc" being "lower case!" I'll also bear in mind your comments and thank you for your time. Diolch. BOT-Twm Crys (talk) 12:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Making inconsequential edits
The page says: "Do not make insignificant or inconsequential edits. An edit that has no noticeable effect on the rendered page is generally considered an insignificant edit."

I'm seeing AWB users do this regularly. Typical changes are adding a space under headers, changing to , and changing the order in which other-language wikis are listed at the end of the article. These are often the only changes that are made, or they are accompanied by adding a non-breaking space. The edits affect the watchlists by obscuring more important changes, and are sometimes annoying in themselves. What is the best way to approach this? SlimVirgin (talk) 19:11, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Loaded question with all sorts of answers.
 * The edits you are describing come under GENFIXES. These are usually done when an AWB person arrives on a page for another reason.
 * Is there a reason for being there in the first place, but was corrected earlier? For example, I work with alot of database dumps.  Between when I scan the dump for a particular problem and fix it, it may have already been corrected.  Nothing can be done in this case.
 * Is there a valid reason for being there that looks insignificant to you?
 * Is the editor relatively new to AWB? They probably don't know what they are doing is wrong.
 * In the end, if you see an editor that your think is making insignificant edits, leave a message on their talk page. They edits may turn out to be valid or they may stop making the insignificant edits.  If you still think the problem continues, then leave a message here.  Bgwhite (talk) 00:25, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks, BG. I'm seeing editors who are making only those edits, so they're not on the page for another reason, and they are not new to AWB. I've already left a message for one of the editors who is doing this, but it continues. The problem is that I don't want to start reverting or making a big deal out of it, because it's so trivial. On the other hand, it's been happening a lot and it can be irritating. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:03, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * BG - Depending on what you're doing with the database dumps, you may be able to set up your bot to skip the article if the problem is no longer there, or to skip the article if the only fixes it is making are genfixes. With manual edits, anyone can skip the article manually.
 * SlimVirgin - Reverting the edits don't improve the article, so I agree with BG that the best course of action is to contact the editor directly. Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 18:16, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Several people have already approached Magioladitis, who is the editor I see doing this most often. Recent discussion here on his talk page. Some previous discussions Nov 2012, Dec 2012, and again Dec 2012. I've asked him if he could comment here. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:04, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Full disclosure, I consider Magioladitis a mentor, so I may not be impartial. Magioladitis is an AWB developer and does alot of edits with AWB.  Note, you've listed examples that were also done by his bot.  The discussion from today was a valid complaint and editing was stopped.  The Nov discussions is a valid use of AWB.  Unicode characters can cause problems and thus are not allowed per MOS.  The first Dec edit was iffy and arguments could go either way if it was valid or not.  In the second Dec edit, Magioladitis was testing AWB. Also, you started this discussion, which was the right thing to do.  Bgwhite (talk) 01:21, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was planning to have this discussion in general terms without names, and hoping Magioladitis would comment and offer assurances. But he commented here in another thread without addressing this one, then I saw that a similar discussion was taking place again on his talk page. The difficulty with these edits is they really do fill up the watchlists, so that each diff has to be checked in case the edit before it is one that needs to be dealt with. When you find that it's someone simply adding spaces under headers, it's a tad annoying. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:46, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Some of the really annoying "fixes" made by AWB really should just be removed from the AWB fix list entirely. If AWB didn't needlessly screw with the capitalization of templates and do other dumb things a lot of these noise edits would go away.  I'm not opposed to trying to clean up articles and have some uniformity, but experience has shown that AWB users can't be trusted to make these updates responsibly so I think they should just be removed from the things that AWB does automatically.  Aren't AWB users supposed to review the changes they are making to the page before saving it?  What's going on here? Quale (talk) 00:57, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree that it would make sense to remove these things from the list. Changing file to File, see to further, and adding spaces under headers makes no difference to the appearance of the article, so I can't see the benefit. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:12, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks Quale for labeling all AWB users irresponsible, please leave the vitrol out of any discussion. AWB doesn't add spaces under headers, only above. This is done according to MOS (See WP:MOSHEAD).  AWB also doesn't change file to File, this was added manually via AWB's find/replace function.  Template names are changed to the main name and not a redirected name.  This is done via consensus from the template editors. Bgwhite (talk) 01:35, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Some of the apparently inconsequential edits happen for a reason, as Bgwhite says above. For instance, line spacing doesn't affect the display, but can have a drastic effect on screen readers for the blind, and that's why AWB is set to standardize it. User:RexxS is the guy to talk to about this, as now Jack Merridew has gone RexxS and MZMcBride are the ones who best understand why some of the apparently random stuff in Wikicode exists, and IMO RexxS is better at explaining it to everyone else. – iridescent  01:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * If there's a reason for the edits, I have no problem with them. Could someone say how adding a space under a header would affect screen readers? The other edits I see a lot are reflist to Reflist (haven't seen that one for a few weeks), file to File, see to further, and changing the order of the other-language wikis. Not an issue in themselves, of course, but multiplied by thousands, then yes. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:55, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * So my reading of the above is that although some AWB changes may appear inconsequential to them, they are not inconsequential to others. However, due to the nature of AWB, and the multiplier effect of edits, it can be irritating. I personally refrain from hitting the 'save' button if there are only general fixes, including insertion of 'persondata' template, but I do confess to sometimes inserting a use dmy dates or use British English template into articles along with minor fixes only because I consider the templates important to article maintenance although they do not affect the rendered output. --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 02:11, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Only adding the persondata template with data is a perfectly valid edit. However, adding an empty template is not... I've been after some editors to stop that.  Not only is it a worthless edit, but it also adds the article to multiple tracking categories. Bgwhite (talk) 07:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't want to interfere with edits that are beneficial in some way, or with someone else's enjoyment on Wikipedia. Perhaps a compromise position could be worked out. As Magioladitis is an AWB developer, perhaps he could remove some of the GENFIXES from the list, if we could agree on the ones that seem to be cropping up the most? SlimVirgin (talk) 02:45, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * In the case of placing a blank line after a heading, I'm not aware of any problem that it causes for screen readers - they get told that either there's one or there's two newlines, so it's not a big annoyance. I would, of course, recommend trying to standardise one way or the other, because standardisation of layout in the edit box helps screen reader users find their way around the wiki-text - it's a help in 'visualising' where you are if you are editing. Nevertheless, in this case, the benefit is very likely to be much smaller than the annoyance to our most prolific editors when their watchlists get clogged up by edits such as these. It is worth mentioning that Graham87 - a very experienced JAWS user - is always very helpful to anyone who asks how a particular edit affects him, so he's an excellent touchstone for what will cause problems and what won't. Hope that helps --RexxS (talk) 02:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We have a wonderful "Skip if only cosmetic changes are made" which checks the html output and skips if it's the same before and after the fixes but (there is a always a but) it turns that many things we all agree are not that important as standalone edits modify the html output. I hope in the future MediaWiki software would override all redirects automatically so all redirects of a template would give the same html output. This is not the case yet. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:00, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We also try that every general fix is described in the Manual of Style. This is one of the reason we stopped adding new functions lately. We won't implement anything that is not in the manual of has no consensus. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:07, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a longstanding convention against making inconsequential edits, but the GENFIXES are fine as they are and do not need trimming back. Mr Stephen (talk) 10:10, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * This was apparently missed from above... AWB doesn't add spaces under headers, only above. This is done according to MOS (See WP:MOSHEAD).  If someone is adding spaces under headers, this is being done manually by the editor. Bgwhite (talk) 07:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I can't remember the defaults. If it isn't already, should skip when "Only white space is changed", "Only casing is changed" and "only minor genfixes" be turned on by default. Maybe a warning pops up when one of these is unchecked? This wouldn't stop the "power" users, but hopefully would stop any newish editors from making minor edits. Bgwhite (talk) 00:18, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No those are not checked by default. No more pop up please. There is already one annoying pop up "You've a new message", first I want to see a "cancel" button there! Anyway, better lock these two "skip if a) only white space is added/removed b) only minor genfix". I'll remove case change from the list, since if an edit changes india to India, technically it is insignificant, but, it is not! --Tito Dutta (talk) 08:20, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * AWB developers - please do not make a change to "lock" any of these skip options. These should remain open so users can choose to check or uncheck these options depending on the task on they are doing.  Responsible users will follow the AWB rules of use to only click Save if their changes are significant.  GoingBatty (talk) 15:21, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that User:Magioladitis is not responsible? It's infinitely worse now that people tell me Magioladitis is an AWB developer.  How can an AWB developer not follow the rules?  Magioladitis has updated hundreds of articles with nothing but inconsequential edits. Quale (talk) 03:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I was not commenting on any user's edits. I was only responding to Titodutta's suggestion to "lock" certain options that I enjoy using. For example, I was recently doing some typo fixing of "millenium" to "millennium".  AWB will automatically suggest typo fixes in certain parts of the article, but not within quotes or references.  I chose to have the skip options off, so I could manually review all articles that contained "millenium", and check the sources before deciding whether to making manual changes and save the article or make no changes and skip the article.  GoingBatty (talk) 03:57, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

2GB profiling.txt
I've been running AWB in pre-parse mode for a while now, under Wine in Linux Mint. I noticed that profiling.txt has ballooned to 2 GB. Really? That seems pretty ridiculous. I deleted the file and AWB created it again from scratch, which is fine, but that doesn't seem like a good solution to me. Running latest snapshot. What can I do to avoid this situation? &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 22:02, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Compile your own version of AWB selecting "release" version instead of "debug". -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:06, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Since the SVN versions create Log.txt and profiling.txt automatically, I used Notepad to create a batch file in my AWB directory called DeleteLogs.bat, which has the following lines:
 * del C:\Users\GoingBatty\Documents\AWB\Log.txt
 * del C:\Users\GoingBatty\Documents\AWB\profiling.txt
 * If you create something similar, you could delete these files quickly. Good luck!  GoingBatty (talk) 18:19, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Working with subpages, can the level be readily identified
It could be my blindness or my ignorance, however, I am finding that when working on subpages that it is difficult to readily identify the level of the subpages, and then trying to get it to undertake an action based on the level. Most of what I am doing is trying to create relative links to the root page, so it would be useful to have a test that identified the level, and then enabled me to set an action based on that level. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:35, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It usually helps to provide an example of what you're trying to do via a diff. --Izno (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Complex little issue. At English Wikisource we build works with subpages as relative links, eg. Desperate Remedies (Hardy)/Part 11/Chapter 1 and the [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Desperate_Remedies_(Hardy)/Part_11&diff=prev&oldid=4277903 diff] that I did to put in relative links.  The links may need to be
 * to root level, eg. can need to be ../ or ../../ or ../../../, and these may have piped text with which to contend. So needs to be able determine the level of subpages
 * to an equivalent subpage, eg. ../Chapter 2/ and may have piped text
 * to subsidiary page, eg. /Chapter 2/ [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Desperate_Remedies_(Hardy)/Part_11&diff=prev&oldid=4277903 diff]]


 * As you will see from the, there can be combinations of these on the same page to apply depending on how the work has been structured. So as an example I need to be able to know that if it is in   so I can test up down and sideways, eg. sideways for   as ../Part 10/Chapter 7, up to root, and down to /Chapter 1/ .  — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:50, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Deleting partition
How can I delete partition ("Muhtarlık") as the example? Can you help with regex? Thank you. (I'm sorry for bad English) --Sadrettin (talk) 20:00, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Example 1
 * Example 2
 * Example 3
 * Based on the assumption that the Muhtarlik section is always the same number of lines and that there's always another section afterwards, try this:
 * \=+\s*Muhtarlık\s*\=+\s*(?:.*\s*){7}(\=+\s?.*\s?\=+) → $1
 * Good luck!  GoingBatty (talk) 18:38, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. "Muhtarlik" section is not always the same number of lines. Example 1 2. What can be done about it? Regards. --Sadrettin (talk) 19:52, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above regex assumes there are exactly 7 lines in the Muhtarlik section. You could make a change such as the one below so it will match whether it has 4 to 12 lines.
 * \=+\s*Muhtarlık\s*\=+\s*(?:.*\s*){4,12}(\=+\s?.*\s?\=+) → $1
 * Adjust the numbers inside the braces if necessary, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 02:55, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

SSL Connection (HTTPS)
Two weeks ago, I used this tool at home and it worked well. Then, I moved to new place and it could not update any the articles. I guess this error cause of SSL Connection? I think this tool need an option to choose HTTP or HTTPS connection. Alphama (talk) 22:41, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It has one, or it used to have it and be part of the username profile; though the comment about "secure" at AutoWikiBrowser/History shows that there has been a change, so I am not sure whether it is a default behaviour or what. It will need a hacker to describe the exact change. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:16, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * One of the hackers kindly responded to my query about this matter
 * for WMF HTTPS is always used
 * select a custom project (options > preferences > site) and it'll offer you HTTP or HTTPS protocol
 * — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:39, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Auto Ed
Has anyone noticed that AWB seems to be putting spaces into text that Auto Ed takes out? Keith-264 (talk) 08:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you please provide an example? -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Schwaben Redoubt I think that there's one for this. (diff | hist) . . m Schwaben Redoubt‎; 06:56 . . (+6)‎ . . ‎Hmains (talk | contribs)‎ (copyedit, links and AWB general fixes, replaced: WW1 → World War I using AWB (8686)). I'm strictly black box with matters like this but since I started using Auto Ed I've noticed that if someone uses AWB afterwards there are spaces put in which Auto Ed took out (under headings etc).Keith-264 (talk) 11:44, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I knew about this problem but I never recorded an example. Thanks for the heads up. One of the two programs is wrong obviously. We have have to resolve this. I hate automated tools warring against each other. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:11, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks,I assumed it was my ignorance causing it. ;O)Keith-264 (talk) 13:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * (diff | hist) . . mb Battle of Broodseinde‎; 11:04 . . (+4)‎ . . ‎Yobot (talk | contribs)‎ (WP:CHECKWIKI error #10 + general fixes using AWB (8888)) here's another. Keith-264 (talk) 14:02, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

save page data to computer
Years ago, I used AWB and it always saved copies of ever page I viewed into my browser's cache. Now I'm looking and I don't see them. I actually want them, or else some automated way to save many articles' text to my computer. Any suggestions on how to do this, please? ... For every article in a list, I essentially need only name (article name and name on first line, if different), birth/death date and nationality (e.g., "American", "British", etc.). If the text of the articles is stored in a cache, I can easily write a little Python program to access the data I need... TKs in advance &bull; Serviceable&dagger;Villain 08:03, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Try using the Special:Export. It exports article pages into an XML file on your computer. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 14:21, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks, that's exactly what I needed! &bull; Serviceable&dagger;Villain 02:00, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Find-and-replace help, please
Hello. Apologies if I've missed the answer to the following in the manual (or elsewhere).

How do I set up AWB to detect some text and add some characters/text before or after it, but only if (e.g.) those characters or text isn't already there, please..? I'm guessing it'll need some Advanced settings (some Rules) in the Options > Find and replace section, but, beyond that, any advice/demonstration appreciated. CsDix (talk) 06:21, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Start by reading the article on Regular expressions. Racklever (talk) 06:26, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Depending on the complexity of the matches you are looking for, you might want to find out about lookahead and lookbehind see e.g. here. The regex tester tool is good for practice.  Mr Stephen (talk) 11:00, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for these suggestions. I'd seen the phrases "regular expression" and "regex" some time ago, but, knowing no more, didn't make the connection here. Looks like it's time to learn some more. Regards, CsDix (talk) 14:12, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposal for AWB standard installation template
It seems that consensus to change maintenance templates can happen quickly, and then the AWB developers, bot owners, and users have to play catch up. The fine folks at Twinkle created a banner called Twinkle standard installation, which they put on template documentation pages, such as Template:Dead end/doc, Template:Underlinked/doc, Template:Multiple issues/doc. I suggest we make a similar template for AWB, which would be placed on any template documentation page where AWB has general fixes to change how it is added/changed/removed. I've mocked up a template at User:GoingBatty/AWB standard installation. Thoughts? GoingBatty (talk) 16:03, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes. I like it. I can't have all tags in my watchlist. A tag on the tag's documenation might help. :) -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:27, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 17:21, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, I moved it to AWB standard installation and added it to the three documentation pages above. Let's see what happens before adding it to more places.  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 19:53, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Spaces in and after headings
It has come to my attention that AWB general fixes removes the spaces in and after headings. Btw, this feature is not mentioned in the manual. This feature is contrary to the Wikipedia default. See this example for the Wikipedia default. I therefore would like this feature immediately removed from AWB. Debresser (talk) 20:36, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * According to the manual AWB puts a single blank line between headers per WP:BODY and WP:HEAD. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:50, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The Manual of Style says nothing for spaces inside the headings and AWB does nothing with that. According to Rich the figures for March 2012 are 14 million headers have no spaces, 4 million have spaces. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:52, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Debresser, if your query is about spaces and not newlines, AWB genfixes does not alter spaces at either end of a heading, as spaced or unspaced are both fine. There may be users who have custom find & replace rules in their AWB settings to do this, or it could be that the RemoveExcessWhitespace function (not part of genfixes but available within the AWB library functions) would remove the spaces. To be clear, that function is not run as part of genfixes so would require a user to specifically configure their AWB (custom module) to use it. If this query relates to Addshore's bot I think you need to go back to that editor on this issue. Thanks Rjwilmsi  21:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Not only does AWB general fixes not alter the spaces at either end of a heading (see this edit to David Weber), manually using the "Fix all excess whitespace" option doesn't do so either. GoingBatty (talk) 21:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

MOS does say something about spaces in the header. Per WP:HEAD, "Spaces between the equal signs and the heading text are optional, and will not affect the way the heading is displayed." FYI... other tools remove the spaces. So, contrary to Debresser's statements above, no spaces in the header is the Wikipedia default and using a space is optional. Bgwhite (talk) 01:29, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

<pre style="font-size:90%;overflow:auto;">
 * If it counts for anything anywhere, I find the following layout helpful when looking for, at or near headings in article code:

Heading. Two equals-signs spaced either side.
File:...

File:...

Start of the section's text. Note the blankline between it and the last element of the Heading/ ///File complex above it.

Subheading. Three (or more) equals-signs without spaces.
(etc) Start of the subsection's text. Note no blankline between it and the last element of the complex above. Hope that makes sense. CsDix (talk) 00:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The statement that "changes the bot makes with spaces are taken from the AWB general fixes" was made at User_talk:Addshore. If this was incorrect, then I am only happy to be so informed. Debresser (talk) 10:41, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Drop header optional spacing removal from  (function within WikiFunctions but not called by AWB genfixes).  Rjwilmsi  11:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Rjwilmsi, does this mean in simple words, that AWB will not be able to automatically remove the spaces in headers (of all levels)? Debresser (talk) 21:12, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is no longer any core code to remove the optional spaces around headers of any levels, though users could still set up find&replace rules to do this (or anything else). Rjwilmsi  21:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the explanation. I think it is a good thing that this is not available as an option. Debresser (talk) 22:50, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Stumped by Talk!
Hi all. Someone yesterday left a request on my Bot: BOT-Twm Crys. Every time I now log in as my Bot and hit the Start button a window opens informing me that I have a new message on my Bot Talk page. A new Talk page then opens. I'm therefore stumped, and unable to use AWB. Any ideas why this is happening please? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 18:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Login to Wikipedia using your BOT account and click the new messages link. That will turn this alert off. This functionality allows other people to stop the bot if it is malfunctioning. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 18:37, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Back on track! Many thanks Ganesh! BOT-Twm Crys (talk) 19:17, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

AWB for Mac
I'll just start by saying I'm a complete moron about this kind of thing. I've been approved for AWB registration and I've downloaded the AWB.zip and VirtualBox.dmg. At this point I need a fellow Mac/AWB user to walk me through the set up process step-by-step (not how to use AWB, but just how to install it properly on a Mac). I've read the user manual, but I honestly need things explained to me like a five year old. I'm sure this probably sounds like anyone who is this clueless shouldn't be allowed to use AWB in the first place, but I assure you, once I have it set up, I'll be fine. Thanks in advance. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 23:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Adding Persondata
How can I add Persondata using AWB? I know that AWB is adding Persondata as part of General fix, but how can I add it as a primary task? Is there a way to set General fix as primary task or a module? Regards, --Klemen Kocjancic (talk) 10:31, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Try AutoWikiBrowser/Custom Modules. GoingBatty (talk) 17:40, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Page name
Once again, sorry if I missed anything in the manual - but is there any possibility to get the page name in the Replace field? Marcgal (talk) 18:53, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that's %%pagename%%. It's on a doc page or another. --Izno (talk) 18:55, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * In AutoWikiBrowser/User manual, the Find & replace section has a link to AutoWikiBrowser/Find and replace, which mentions %%pagename%% and other keywords. GoingBatty (talk) 01:25, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you kind. Marcgal (talk) 19:26, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Can we deal with this?
I happened to stumble upon P264 a disambiguation page (that was labeled as such) and I, due to an embarrassing lapse of judgement, tagged it with Orphan, stub it apparently wasn't supposed to be tagged that way. I take the full blame. I made that error. I was later notified about it by through a pointed comment (concluded with an exclamation mark). Hence, I am asking can we slip in a change that will keep AWB from offering orphan and stub tags to pages that are labelled as disambiguation pages? I am asking this here first to discern if it's feasible. Thank you. P.S. Please give me wb at my talk after replying. Mr T (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 17:51, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * AWB won't tag dab pages with orphan, dead end etc. You were unlucky to encounter a newly introduced redirect of Letter-Number Combination Disambiguation with only 1 transclusion. Now that I bypassed the redirect AWB won't tag the page again. -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Even worse the page was improperly moved. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:06, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I finished the move correctly and updated the template redirects page. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:09, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * finishes the task. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:51, 24 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for fixing this. Now if only Page Curation could prevent people from adding stub to articles which already have a subject-specific stub template .... I know, wrong forum! Pam  D  19:25, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * What does that mean Pam? Do elaborate. Is anybody (me included) adding stub to articles which already have a subject-specific stub template? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 08:13, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, there's a steady trickle of articles which turn up in Category:Stubs with an established stub template and a newly-added stub added through Page Curation - see  and  as examples.
 * I hope you'll be successful when you bring this up at Wikipedia talk:Page Curation - good luck! GoingBatty (talk) 13:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I did raise it there, 6 months ago, and there's a Bugzilla report awaiting attention. Pam D  13:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Automatically implementing changes
Hi! I'm an administrator at the Romanian Wiktionary project. I'm currently implementing a change to all (!) the articles in our project and can't help but wonder if there's a way which liberates me from pressing the "save" button for every individual article? Last time I used AutoWikiBrowser - when we changed orthography back in 2011 - I want to remember a button/function, which if activated, automatically implemented the changes stipulated by the user so he/she didn't have to press save every time. Can't find that button/function anywhere. Is there an easier way to implement a tedious alteration without having to monitor each individual page? And also is there a way to not flood the Recent Changes-page with these alterations? Thanks in advance! Best Regards, --Robbie SWE (talk) 13:15, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * You can create a bot account and save pages automatically. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:24, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, it might sound like a stupid question but how do I create a bot account? I'm a better administrator than programmer and don't really know what is needed. --Robbie SWE (talk) 13:38, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Can't you give an account a bot status? If you can't ask a bureaucrat to do it for you. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:51, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll give it a try. Thanks for your help! --Robbie SWE (talk) 14:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Once you get your bot account set up (and approved, if needed), you may want to review AutoWikiBrowser/User manual. Happy editing!  GoingBatty (talk) 18:13, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

default treatment of non-existence registers for regexes
I seem to be having a problem with the module I use with AWB. It can be seen from this diff that something weird has happened to the output string ' '. The offending lines of code, which I've since disabled, interprets the regex differently to my scripts so that simple translation doesn't word – I was expecting for AWB to interpret it as 'append a zero to register 2', but instead AWB read it as 'register 20 (absent)'. What would be a work-around for this type of situation? --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 02:56, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * You could use the output string ' ', and then add another regex to convert ' ' to ' ', although maybe someone else has something more elegant. Hope this helps!  GoingBatty (talk) 03:01, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * In C# if you want a number after a numbered replacement group, use ${2} for the replacement group rather than $2. Rjwilmsi  14:01, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, RJ. --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 03:39, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Suffix ES @ zhwiki
Hello! AWB's suffix edit summary of Chinese language " 由自动维基浏览器协助 " is [ too long]. At zhwiki, we also use "AWB". So I suggest shortting it as " 由AWB协助 " or simply " (AWB) " (with leading space). Thank you.--202.117.145.243 (talk) 07:03, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Multiple issues template
Why does AWB change the multiple issues template to the deprecated syntax? Like here. -- Patchy1   05:39, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Person is using an older version of AWB. I'll tell them to update to latest version. Bgwhite (talk) 05:50, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I have noticed it a couple of times, is there not something built in to AWB to prompt the user to update? Should there be? (I don't use AWB by the way). -- Patchy1   08:34, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Some-one needs to update the release version at Sourceforge as it is months out of date. There is a debug version available but it is slower --Racklever (talk) 09:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI - see User talk:Magioladitis GoingBatty (talk) 12:12, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Maxlag parameter
Hello.

I saw that on Wikidata certains bots runnig extremely fast (sometimes one hundred requests per minut to the server), and I read mw:Manual:Maxlag parameter.

So, I would like to know if, like Pywikipediabot, AWB can considers the lag on the server to adapt his speed running based on that.

Do you understand what I mean?

Thanks by advance for your answers. Automatik (talk) 13:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The general rule for bots is that they are only allowed to make one simultaneous request to the servers at a time. A bot that gets 100 edits per minute is almost certainly using multiple simultaneous requests. When run in non-bot mode, AWB edits are supposed to be reviewed manually, so anyone who gets even 50 edits per minute is not doing what they are supposed to. When run in bot mode, AWB has a "delay" parameter that allows the bot operator to control the rate - but even with no delay, you won't see 100 edits per minute. Separately, AWB does set a maxlag, according to a look at the source code, e.g.  &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 13:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you too much. Do you know what is the default maxlag? I don't understand the source code. Automatik (talk) 19:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a line in the code that says  (seconds), which, according to mw:Manual:Maxlag parameter, is the same as Pywikipediabot.  I believe the default delay is 10 seconds, per the screenshot at AutoWikiBrowser/User_manual.  GoingBatty (talk) 00:13, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. I understood that, theoretically, it's possible to set a null delay between edits (in practice, exclusively for mass edits) considering that the parameter maxlag will adjust the speed of AWB's running according to the stability of the server. Thanks so much for the answer. Automatik (talk) 02:42, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Need assistance
Hi,My user name has been changed from User:zeeyanketu to User:zeeyanwiki after request but i cant able to login AWB with new username.Plz guide me for this. ---zeeyanwiki discutez 18:21, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Should work now - Kingpin13 (talk) 19:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I have also the same issue. My username has been recently changed from Torreslfchero to Tolly4bolly. Could you also change my username so that I can use it when I need it. T4B (talk) 19:47, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Also done. I have a bot which handles this issue (renamed users in the AWB check page list) but your case just made me realise why it's not been doing it (I messed some things up when installing a new operating system), so I'll try and get to fixing that. - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:05, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Some basic helps needed.

 * In the make list column, there is an option to automatically add new pages in the list of articles or pages. My doubt is which pages are loaded? Are they already reviewed by new page patrollers or are just out of creation.
 * Just created, or just modified – completely raw. Chris the speller   yack  19:23, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the help. - Jayadevp13 (talk) 06:48, 21 March 2013 (UTC)


 * How to automatically add a template or a set of templates to pages in the list?
 * Please help.

- Jayadevp13 (talk) 16:23, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * To add templates to your list, make sure you have selected a source that contains "(all NS)" - which means all namespaces - and that you do not have the "Remove non-main space" checked in the List menu. If you would like to provide an example of a set of templates you want to add to your list, I would be happy to help further.  Happy editing!  GoingBatty (talk) 01:59, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you have misunderstood me or most probably I was not able to explain my problem well. For example, I have already prepared a list of articles or pages. Now take a template, for example Template - Indian space programme. Now I want to edit the pages in the list in such a way that the mentioned template is already added to the article and I just need to press the SAVE button to save my edit.
 * - Jayadevp13 (talk) 06:48, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Try using a combination of Append/Prepend Text box and the sort meta after check box on the More tab. See AutoWikiBrowser/User_manual. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 10:28, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It worked. - Jayadevp13 (talk) 11:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Jayadevp13 - sorry for misunderstanding. Ganeshk - thanks for giving the right answer.
 * Everyone - How should AutoWikiBrowser/Order of procedures be updated to reflect the "sort meta data after" option? Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 16:22, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

AWB and dead-end
In the past few days, two articles on my watchlist, From the Vault (Magic: The Gathering) and Magic: The Gathering duel decks, have been tagged with Template:Deadend. One small problem: they weren't dead-ends. Both link to Magic: The Gathering and Template:Magic: The Gathering, the latter of which links to a whole lotta other articles p  b  p  18:28, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Both of those contain a whole bunch of external links disguised as wikilinks. Interesting, but not really AWB business. Mr Stephen (talk) 19:41, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * So? They also contain real wikilinks, so AWB shouldn't have slapped the "dead-end" tag on them p  b  p  23:20, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * My point was that the the article contains a lot of external links that look like internal links. It's not AWB business so I have opened a discussion at Village pump (miscellaneous).  Fell free to chime in and put me right either way.  Mr Stephen (talk) 13:15, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It works OK for me. -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:53, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Looking at the history of From the Vault (Magic: The Gathering), I don't see where it was ever tagged with dead end. When Magic: The Gathering duel decks was tagged in, it had one true wikilink.  I can reproduce the issue, so I created this bug report.  GoingBatty (talk) 21:58, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Select which auto tags
I would like to run a check for orphan articles over Wikivoyage. The auto tag option is however built for Wikipedia and adds other tags such as empty sections and uncategorised pages which are not relevant for the site. Is there a way to selectively switch on and off these tags? --Traveler100 (talk) 09:10, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Not currently possible, but you could raise a feature request to specify which tags should be used for Wikivoyage. Rjwilmsi  12:14, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Help with regex through AWB
I don't know if this talk is the right one; anyway. My need is to select a certain portion of delimited paragraph that does not cointain certain words, but I can't find the right regex to use. All my testes has been performed through AWB regex tester. For example, if I use this: (start)(?!.*text.*)(.*?)(end) without Singleline flag, it matches this "start text end" but not this "start\ntext\nend". If I use the singleline flag the situation is the opposite.

If I use this: (start)(?![.]*text.*)(.*?)(end) without singleline it selects also "start text end" ignoring the "not match" condition. Apparently [.] should be equal to. but the behaviour is different.

If I use this: (start)(?![\s\w]*text.*)(.*?)(end) with singleline it matches correctly both the above cases, but it fails on "start ;text end".

Any explanation for the above cases? Can someone tell me which is the right regex that work in every case? Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 00:44, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I renew my question... If someone think that exist a better talk where to ask it, please let me know. Thanks a lot, --Andyrom75 (talk) 08:00, 30 March 2013 (UTC)


 * This ought to be a good place, even though no-one answered for a while. I suggest you create a sandbox page, perhaps User:Andyrom75/Sandbox, and post some example paragraphs there - examples that you want the regex to match, and then some examples of similar paragraphs that you don't want the regex to match. Then we'll have some test data to work with, and a clear idea of what you are aiming for. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:36, 30 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I've just created a page with the very first examples that have arisen to my mind (anyone feel free to add more examples...). Paragraph to NOT match are the ones that contains "text" while the ones to match are the other that contains "te-xt". --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:22, 30 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Try this: Find  Replace   Multiline not ticked, Singleline ticked. For me this appends "NOT FOUND" after the "end" delimiter of each group of lines that do not contain "text". I hasten to add that I didn't work this out for myself; it's adapted from the bottom post at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/406230/regular-expression-to-match-string-not-containing-a-word -- John of Reading (talk) 10:51, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent John! It's seems to work properly! ...at leat I don't have any counter example in my mind... :) Just a question to better understand the syntax. Why between start&text there's no .* or similar? That's the base of the failure of all my tests. Another thing, do you think that I can extend it with  ?--Andyrom75 (talk) 11:23, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * There's an explanation further up that stackoverflow page at the post labelled "1100". I think I understand it. You can extend it to multiple words, but you'll need round brackets not square: . -- John of Reading (talk) 11:34, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I've understood it now, altough I have to admit that I know that page (shame on me) :-) I've used it for my first try but maybe it has failed because of wrong ticked on checks and I've never tried it again.
 * I've noticed that it works not in a "greedy" way: it stops on the first match of end (and that's what I wanted), but now I have a question. Let's assume that I want to match a template that could have inside other templates. How can I target the right }} ?--Andyrom75 (talk) 11:41, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that Advanced Find and Replace can do that, but I've never tried to use that feature. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:59, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok. By now I want to really thank you. I'll play a little bit with the feature you mention and if I'll have some specific doubt I'll let you know. --Andyrom75 (talk) 12:39, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

When will SVN 8984 be available?
A fix to a problem I reported is supposed to be fixed in SVN 8984. When will that be available? I don't see it on the SVN snapshot page -- the highest number there is 8964. Thanks. --Auntof6 (talk) 10:50, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * 8984 hasn't been upload to the Sourceforge page yet, so the only copy is probably on Rjw's computer. As Rjw just worked very hard to get the latest release out, I have a feeling he is probably taking a little break at the moment.  If I was in his shoes, I'd get nauseous just thinking about AWB.  Bgwhite (talk) 22:33, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Click in diff box no longer focuses edit box on that line
In the latest official release, 5.5.0.0 (SVN 8979), clicking on a line in the diff box no longer focuses the edit box on that line. This wasn't intentional, was it? It solves WT:AWB/FR and would make it easier to deal with WT:AWB/B when that problem occurs (still happened with 8964; just switched to 8979 and haven't encountered it yet).

The initial instructions at the top of the diff box still say "single click to focus the edit box to that line". M AN d ARAX •  XAЯA b ИA M  20:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've upgraded to 5.5.0.0 8979, but I'm not seeing this - when I click on either half of the diff box, the edit box scrolls to that line and the text focus moves to the start of the line. IE version 9.0.8112.16470, .NET 2.0.50727.5466, Windows 6.1 (if it makes any difference). -- John of Reading (talk) 20:54, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It is broken for me as well. It is broken in 5.5.0.0 8979 and 8971. I want to say it was broken before 8971 as well.  One difference I have from John of Reading is that it says IE version 10.0.9200.16521.  This is not a version that I compiled myself, but download from Sourceforge. Bgwhite (talk) 21:01, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Works for me in 5.5 with IE 8.0.7601.18094, .NET version 2.0.50727.5737 and Win 6.1. GoingBatty (talk) 21:20, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It appears to be an IE vs AWB problem. I just downgraded to IE 9 and it started working. Bgwhite (talk) 21:24, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, it works for GoingBatty with IE 8, but not for me with IE 8.0.6001.19403. My other info: .NET 2.0.50727.3643, Windows 5.1. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  21:58, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Update: I just got the "no vertical scroll bar in diff window" problem in 8979, but my prediction was incorrect. Unlike previous versions in which I could click the "Diff" button then use arrow keys or the mouse wheel as a workaround to scroll, in this version I can find no way at all to scroll, other than closing and restarting AWB. I guess I'll have to downgrade my AWB or upgrade my IE a little bit, but not too much. This is something which should be fixed, because people who use IE are going to want the latest version. (And I sure wish that long-standing scroll bar problem could be resolved. It's very inconvenient to have to close and restart AWB.) M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  22:46, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Could you please try updating your .NET version, and then let us know whether or not you still have the problem? Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 01:15, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI... AWB is compiled against .Net 2.0, which is why you see everybody running .NET version 2.0.50727.x
 * Depending on what OS you are running and what version of .Net installed will determine the different x version. Geezer Mandarax is running XP (which only has 1 year 6 days of support left, then no more security updates).  Mandarax is running .NET 2.0.50727.3643, which was released as a security update for XP in November 2012.  Bgwhite (talk) 04:46, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Try this: find or download file Microsoft.mshtml.dll (I do not want to distribute it with AWB until I find out what Microsoft licence applies to it), put it in the same directory as AutoWikiBrowser.exe, restart AWB, does single click on diff now work? Rjwilmsi  06:13, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does work. Microsoft.mshtml.dll version 7.0.3300 Bgwhite (talk) 06:44, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I also built SVN8979 with the system's MSHTML.dll (aka, the workaround to build under .Net 4.0) and it also works correctly. Bgwhite (talk) 08:13, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I found about fifty of them on my computer, ranging from version 6.0.2800.1106 to 8.0.6001.23471, but no version 7 at all. I tried a few different ones in the AWB directory, and it didn't work with any of them. I'll try switching to IE 9 one of these days to see if that helps. In any case, if I'm the only one with this problem, then don't worry about it. I don't need that functionality, and I'll just enjoy the ability to copy from the diff window with Ctrl-c. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  09:47, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Those can't be the right one. Please try downloading the right version from a DLLs site e.g. here and report back if it works, since we now have a bug report on this. Rjwilmsi  20:30, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that fixed it. Plus, copying with Ctrl-c still works. Thanks! M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  21:26, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad to hear it. I'm going to try to see if we can dynamically determine if Microsoft.mshtml.dll is available and have the old behaviour (single/double click actions but no Control+C) when it's not. May or may not be possible. Rjwilmsi  21:54, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Typofix on internal wiki
I'd like to use typofix on an internal wiki, but AWB unchecks the box whenever I click it. My guess is that it's looking for the list of typos at /wiki/AutoWikiBrowser/Typos, whereas the wiki requires me to put it at /wiki/index.php/AutoWikiBrowser/Typos. Is there a way to show AWB where the typo list actually is? If this isn't the problem, is there anything else I'd have to do other than copying your list of typos onto my wiki? Thanks. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:46, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

CS1 and citation template updates
Several templates and citation have been updated. See Module talk:Citation/CS1/Updates. --  Gadget850 (Ed) talk 01:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. To start off, last1 to last99, editor1 to editor99 etc. now valid for cite web following switch to Lua.  Rjwilmsi  08:48, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Article loading
I can potentially have a lot of tea-breaks waiting for articles to load. I'm interested in seeing how I can speed up article loading and saving, as in what these might be a function of. I've not been able to determine any pattern. I always use a custom module (such as this), and I'm questioning, for example, to what extent would the code in the module weigh upon the loading speed? --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 11:23, 6 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Also, upon opening an article, the 'down arrow' scrolls the diff window and the enter key saves the changes. Sometimes 'down arrow' affects the edit summary drop-down menu and the enter key is neutral. I put the arrow back on the diff window, but the enter key stays in neutral. So I'd like to know how to defaulting to the diff window/save combination. How do I jump from one to the other. Thanks, --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 11:37, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you tried to run the pages without the module? That might be an indication of whether its the module having the effect or the new release version. Kumioko (talk) 13:46, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

It took me a hell of a long time to find out how to control the message at the foot of AWB. I finally found one way of doing it: By suitable use of code like this you can see what takes up your time. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 14:31, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

AWB not opening whatsoever
I am a Windows 7 user. I just a few minutes ago downloaded AWB and unzipped it, then tried to open it and it gives me an "AutoWikiBrowser has stopped working" pop-up without opening at all. I shouldn't need the .NET stuff because I'm on Windows 7 (I get a "not found" error when I click on that page anyway). Any suggestions? T C  N7 JM  02:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * .Net does come with Windows 7. However it may have been removed or disabled.  Goto the Control Panel -> Programs and Features -> Turn Windows Features on or off (it's at the top-left of Programs an Features).  Is the box next to .Net 3.5 filled in?  Bgwhite (talk) 02:17, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. T  C  N7 JM  02:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)