Wikipedia talk:Boot Camp/Archive 2006-01-28

I'll empty you! Please leave feedback here.

BOOT CAMP RULES!! They teached me stuff, a-hyuck. =P I know how to use jedit now woohooo! *is editing this page with jedit* [[User:Consequencefree| Ardent &dagger; &isin; ]] 09:17, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hey sj, this is a great idea. Put a note about it on the Welcoming committee page when you get a chance. Isomorphic 23:11, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

More on naming, where to put drafts, how to label a work in progress --Margias

I'm new to Wikipedia, and have been learning as much as I can on how to edit/create articles. I'd really like to join your bootcamp, but I'm absolutely IRC illiterate at the moment,  having installed it just now for the sake of joining your classes. When midnight finally rolled around, I was heavily disappointed about my inability to connect to the bootcamp channel. Could you, or anyone else reading this,  help me out and tell me what I did wrong? I followed the instructions you gave as closely as I could, but I think I was a minute late (IRC trouble). Was that why I couldn't connect? I'd appreciate any help. Pasta Salad 05:11, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, woukld you give a look on IRC channels? There are closer information on IRC, I suppose. Your retry is very welcome ;-) -- Aphaea *  06:46, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Topics expected
Hi, your bootcamp is a neat idea. The tonight talk on Template is very suggestive. I think this camp is helpful not only for newbies but also for us old-bies (if I can be counted as such).

My suggestions are:
 * How to do adventure a maze of Wikipedia documents: VP, VfD and other request pages, Special pages ...
 * How do I tune my preferences? (fansy signature, RC expansion and so on)
 * Other projects speicially Wikisource, Commons and meta.
 * Wikipedia related contents: Signpost, Wikimedia Quarto ...
 * What is a stub and substub ; how can I avoid creating wiktionary candidates ;-)

I expect much smarter input you''ll get ;) -- Aphaea *  06:46, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Name
I think this is a nifty idea, but I'd prefer a different name. For one thing, boot camps are not known for being friendly places. Maybe "Wikipedia 101" would be better. Maurreen 16:57, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Why 101? An emergency call? I suggest a strongly depending on a local culture and society isn't understandable.-- Aphaea *  11:19, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * "101" is often used in the USA to indicate an introductory course. If that doesn't work for you, would you consider something else, such as "orientation"? Maurreen 19:44, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * "Wikipedia: orientation"? Sounds nice. And it is more understandable for me than Bootcamp. -- Aphaea *  08:35, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Encyclopedic content is of value when it is objective. In many ways, the average wikipedian is in need of discipline to maintain sight of the objective. I know I am. Imposing rules upon myself is easier if i keep them strict. I expect my peers to honor that and hold me to it. The para-military style appeals to my personality type. CQ 11:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Boot Camp times
I think this is a good idea, especially since the whole Wiki creating and editing isn't a user-friendly at first as it seems. I strongly support the orientation or however you want to call it, and I very much would like to attend one of them. However, midnight EST is 5:00am GMT, which is my time zone, and as much as I enjoy Wiki, I am not really keen on waking up/staying up at 5 o'clock in the morning! Any chance there could be an alternate time frame for this? If night are what works for you, what about mornings? 7:00am EST is noon GMT! Well, just hope something can be done. Thanks!

Diego440 14:44, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm. noon GMT is 9:00pm JST. It seems better for me but I'm afraid many Wikipedians in EST zone are sleeping in this hour.
 * Or we can an orientation twice a day? At least on weekend? -- Aphaea *  08:38, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

How about two different bootcamp times, hosted by different people? Midnight EST is easy for me since I'm always at a computer then, and on IRC. +sj +
 * And in the habit of checking in around noon EDT/EST as tractor.  Quinobi 28 June 2005 16:53 (UTC)

Still happening?
Is this still going on? All my welcome messages since February have contained the notice, as was requested by Sj, but I would prefer not to leave misleading notices of things that no longer occur. If the bootcamp does stop being regular, it would be good if the template were to be killed so that people don't see out-of-date references. &mdash; Asbestos | Talk 11:03, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Asbestos. It is still going on sporadically, although the web-IRC interface isn't working as smoothly as it used to.  Right now bootcamps only happen when one is specifically encouraged on other IRC chans; maybe we need to find a better way to focus them.  +sj +  17:57, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's a great idea too. but needs to be more ongoing and frequent. I have this suggestion:
 * For those who maintain an IRC connection on Freenode just stay in #wpbootcamp continually. Have daily Plenary sessions at noon and midnight and use a bot on #wikipedia' to announce the regular meeting. Freenode does allow "blessed" bots in circumstances like this. I've added #wpbootcamp to my autojoin list on my X-chat IRC client, and if I'm online I'm there right now. If there is activity there, I'll commit to this practice. Otherwise I'll see you in #wikipedia or WikiProject_Community, which you're all invited to join. HopeToSeeYa there soon:) Quinobi 16:19, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I like this idea of daily sessions. I was thinking yesterday about long-term goals of bootcamp.  I'd like for it to turn into a set of voluntary self-assessment tests for new users.  If you want to pick up external validation that you've mastered some aspect of Wiki, you go to the right bootcamp subpage, carry out the relevant tasks, and show up at a bootcamp session for comment/verification.

Who's on first?
For the next few weeks, we can treat bootcamp as office hours for newbies; both on-wiki and on IRC. Actively checking talk pages, and responding to people on IRC, for fast-turnaround help. I can cover midnight-to-1am EST; can someone else cover noon-to-1pm? We can even set up a little calendar. During office hours, we can hash out how to develop bootcamps over time; what newbies need to know; ways to reach people other than greeting them. We can ask the people who show up what the want to learn about, and design from there... +sj + 18:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * OK I crashed the first prototype of the tractor into the barn. Since I'm only human, I can only be a man of my word if I severely limit my word. I have no idea when I'll get back to anything 'regular'. As a homeless person again, I'm too much in flux to maintain a routine or a block of dippy code. I could be anywhere: A library, a friends house, in jail... The tractor server (which sh/c/would be a 24/7 super bot) is currently inaccessable to me, but I can work on the docs with ya'll (see below). I guess for now we'll have to rely on the archane notions of honor and committment from real people. But yeah... STILL HAPPENING! CQ 09:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Who's next?
Soldiers?

Bootcamp metrics

 * Template use. Stub-sorting, template technicalities, what makes for good and bad (unscalable) templates.
 * Style. Usage and style guide applications : to FAs, to stubs and new articles, to policies and templates; and everything in-between.  How to archive cleanly, how to wikify, how to leverage spelling-bots, how to be concise.  Not to be confused with Design.
 * Design. Laying out a good page.  Elements of usability, color and contrast, bold and italics.   Use of borders, divs, tables, thumbnails, html special effects, and more.
 * Policy use. What core policies are; distinguishing core policies from newer ones.  How to follow all rules and be bound by none.  Parallel channels for getting review and feedback, dispute resolution, content clarification, and having fun.  Modifying policies; avoiding votes and how to do it if you must.  Historical experiments.
 * Handling conflict. What to do about content disagreements; personal disagreements; how to handle vandals and trolls as a new user.  Where to announce things; how to do so with minimal effort.
 * Talking. Polite ways to leave messages, add to talk pages, use watchlists, use "email this user" links and mailing-lists.  How to archive your own talk page; those of articles.

IRC
Does anyone know where I can get IRC? Job E  6   01:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure. Wikipedia has a nice article - Internet Relay Chat that details how IRC works and how to use it. There is also the List of IRC clients, one of which you will need to chat. The Wikipedia Bootcamp channel is on the Freenode network:
 * #wpbootcamp. Hope to see ya there! CQ 14:46, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Alternate Real-Time Resources
I don't know if this would be feasible for Wikipedia or not, but would this work better as a Teamspeak server?
 * Probably not in my opinion. When we're on IRC, one instructor can easily follow up on several recruits, and there's also a lower threshold for actually connecting, as it's only text (and not voice to voice with a complete stranger). If we'd go over to Teamspeak, it would require a soundcard/microphone/speakers or headset, and would also make it harder to help someone. If you ask a question on IRC, I can see the question several hours after, and if you're still on, I could respond; whereas in Teamspeak I'd have to hear the question there and then, meaning that I'd actually have to listen all the time, instead of just checking every now and then on IRC. Bjelleklang -  talk 23:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Teamspeak and other sonic user interface technology is no doubt on its way. As exciting as that may sound, Wikipedia should remain a textual experience at least for another decade. IRC is an old protocol and freenode is an institution the old guard understands and respects. Let's keep our traditions up and over our technologies and maintain a rugged substrate for our boots. Then we can take that hill. We're here for the duration. WATCH - CQ 09:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Multi-Linguals
For Wikipedians who are fluent in several languages or even only one, it is helpful to note the facts on your Userpage. For this there are some templates.   for instance would indicate a native speaker of Swedish with an advanced knowledge of English, an intermediate knowledge of French, and a basic knowledge of Spanish.

Go to Babel for more info on Wikipedia and Languages.

tractor
I am tractor, an IRC bot. I'm here to train and be trained. 11:17, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * All Bootcamp participants are invited to help design and build the tractorBot. I am refactoring tractor's user page into some sections that I hope will make the aims and functions of the bot a bit more consice. These will become the User:Tractor and User:Tractor and I'm hoping to get some important help from the folks in #perl, #poe and of course the very busy MediaWiki developers. I'm fairly certain that the tractor will be written in Perl using the  Perl_Object_Environment as an engine. Coders are certainly welcome, but it's important to know how the bootcamp realtime help system works, and ya kind of have to be there to get the picture.
 * One of the main functions, the way I see it (as the human 'driver' of the tractor) is to maintain a steady and consistant follow-up on Bootcamp recruits ('victims') to extract and report on their activities and progress. It's best of course, to do this with the Human touch. The bot is simply here to help us Humans function better as a Unit, dedicated to helping new Users with common problems. I think we're here for the long haul, and the sevice is proving useful to new users. Your comments and questions here would be most valuable.
 * I realize that there have been some concerns and questions about the military metaphors we've used in the past, but every effort is being made to keep Wikipedia policies and guidelines at the core of the design. I'm commited to designing and building one of the most useful and sensitive bots on the Internet, and there is no place like the Bootcamp (that I've found) for fully utilizing this implement. But I must hear from you to get it right. Grab the steering wheel! Crank up the throttle! Thanks in advance for your feedback. -- CQ 08:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Clean up project page
Somebody put some really dumb stuff on the project page about friends and enemies and other disappointing comments. I'm going to try to revert it back to what the Bootcamp's original purpose is. Any help will be appreciated. Thanx in Advants. -- CQ 14:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Questions
Anonymous User asks: "Hello, this page says: "It is important to maintain a democracy" but "What Wikipedia is Not" (2.3) "Wikipedia is not a democracy" What gives?"
 * CQ points to Administrators: Wikipedia is a free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Please read the five pillars document for the official scoop on all of that sort of stuff. Your question is as old as Wikipedia itself and will continue to be asked.

Comments and suggestions
Comments and suggestions are required to keep the Wikipedia Bootcamp vital.

Bootcamp is...
It's written: Eternal vigilence is the price of liberty.


 * As for The Wikipedia Bootcamp, it is an independant organized para-military unit led by a Wikipedia steward and joined by a few administrators and many regulars. It's purpose is to help train regulars to be good stewards and administrators of the Wikipedia. If the Bootcamp's rank and file want to be democratic, the Wikimedia Foundation has no problem with it. We try to maintain a democracy, within a burocracy that controls a server farm funded by a corporate entity within a part of the world that is partial to democrocy upon a global free internet. CQ 10:48, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Perfection
The four corners:
 * our style is traditional
 * our methods are conventional
 * our goals are simple
 * our language is pure

accurate?
Hmmm... some thoughts about this GREAT!! site (I really think it's great!)


 * "poor children in African villages" - if they don't have a printed encyclopedia then they most likely (MORE likely) have no Internet access either. If that is the mission then everyone please contribute to the French Wikipedia, not the English one - they will be more likely to read French than English in the majority of African countries. Also, using the stereotype of the poor African village is by my very personal opinion not very nice... there are plenty of poor illiterate children in the First World (e.g., in the U.S.) as well that crave knowledge. I think "underpriviliged children around the world" could be a more neutral term.


 * "It is also important to maintain democracy that people be able to state unpopular opinions without necessarily attaching them to their real name" - is democracy the correct term here? This sounds to me more like a subset of Western values of liberalism. I don't find it in any (printed) definition of democracy yet... Maybe it's better to invoke the freedom of speech or human rights here because I think that's more accurate but may sound to grand.

Comments (here) more than welcome!

--Carboxen 21:06, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Clueless newbies
Should we advertise somewhat more there (if nothing more, at least a link)? Bjelleklang -  talk 23:20, 8 January 2006 (UTC)