Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 6

Members of Parliament
Some of the MPs who were elected to the House of Commons for the first time in the 2006 election have not yet been added to the alphabetical lists of MPs (List of Members of the Canadian House of Commons - A, List of Members of the Canadian House of Commons - B, etc.) Some have, but they appear to have been one-shot additions as absences were noticed; nobody as of yet has gone through to verify that all of the new MPs were properly listed. Because it can be a bit of a time-consuming process crossreferencing lists against lists, I'd like to propose an ad hoc mini-project in which several people take responsibility for updating two or three or four letters each, rather than leaving the whole job to one person.

I'm willing to do part of this work, but I don't want to take on responsibility for the whole thing by myself. Bearcat 08:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've completed A and B. E, I, J, Y and Z also verified. Bearcat 09:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

what are you guys talking about????? i am so confuddled that isn't even funny...LOL...yes it is...LOL :P:D:P:D:P:D- Soku Kitty 15:05, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Hoping to feature Canadian postal code
I've worked on this article for quite a bit, but I need to cite as much of this article's information as I can before it can be featured. I tried contacting User:SimonP because I believe he knows where the information in the article's history section can be precisely verified, but so far, he hasn't responded. He told me the info is in the online archives of The Globe and Mail, but I don't have access to that resource. Can anyone else help? --  Denelson83  04:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I do have access to the Globe and Mail as well as the Toronto Star archives. I'll work on getting some references over the next few days. Canadiana 07:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Introducing Template:CBC Series Dir
For articles on older CBC Television Series, there is now a template to add reference links to the relevant program descriptions on the Queen's University Directory of CBC Television Series. It is available at CBC Series Dir, and includes usage notes. Dl2000 03:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Canadian TV shows
The Wikiproject Canadian TV Shows has recently started up and is looking for people to help out. The projects current goal is to get articles on Canadian TV Shows properly organized. Any help would be appreciated. JQF • Talk • Contribs 22:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Please help settle a stalemate on Canadian science fiction
Hi. Could someone please help settle a debate on Canadian science fiction. We are talking about what shows should be listed under the title of "Canadian". User:Avt tor feels that anything filmed in Canada counts as Canadian, whereas I feel that something should have some Canadian creative input to get the title. I have tried to propose a middle ground of splitting the list so that we can both get our way, but he will not allow any compromise. --Arctic Gnome 08:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

New Template
I've been working on a new template for the Histories of the Provinces. See here:

Do you think we need it? And is this the right format for it? Thanks. Kevlar67 02:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the Navbox generic template (rather with the default width of 100% though, for consistent alignament on pages with multiple navboxes). Tom on the other hand reported accessibility problems with ths particular template. Navigation would be an aternative. Nice work. --Qyd 15:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Provinicial/territorial topic coverage
I saw the template above, and being shocked at the number of provinces lacking dedicated history articles. So, I decided to try and quickly work out how patchy/complete coverage of various provincial topics were, which resulted in the table below. (Each topic is done by a template, not by hand). Anyway, the table below shouldn't need any further explanation.

Any thoughts/comments? Tom pw (talk) 12:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Great worklist (for Articles needed). I guess contributors were focused on cities and other pages, and the province articles fell behind. Not one of them is FA or even GA. Maybe it's time to return and revamp them. --Qyd 15:01, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a big problem is that many of them are tagged as being part of a provincial wikiproject, but not the federal one (which has many more members). I'll start adding WPCANADA tags to them.  --Arctic Gnome 18:12, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * All Western Canada articles sorted into Wikiprojects. --Arctic Gnome 19:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * All Central Canada articles sorted into Wikiprojects. --Arctic Gnome 19:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * All Eastern Canada articles sorted into Wikiprojects. --Arctic Gnome 23:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * All Northern Canada articles sorted into Wikiprojects. --Arctic Gnome 23:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll now start making stub articles so we have somewhere to link to and start with. --Arctic Gnome 23:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a good worklist, although I would suggest that in a couple of cases it may be misleading. Specifically, in the cases where you have separate sections for provincial vs. territorial topics (e.g. Lists of provincial highways vs. Lists of territorial highways, or Lieutenant Governors vs. Commissioners), the redlinks are almost entirely topics that genuinely shouldn't exist. Is there a way you could combine those pairs into single templates so that we can avoid the appearance of non-viable redlinks? I'm just a bit concerned that somebody less knowledgeable about Canada might see this and think that "List of Ontario territorial highways" or "List of Yukon provincial highways" are missing article topics, rather than nonsensical ones as they actually are. Also, the Yukon doesn't actually have census divisions per se — the whole territory is a single census division, so "List of Yukon census divisions" should maybe just be a redirect to Yukon, if anything at all. Bearcat 23:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Fair point... I dealt with Highways and lieutenant-governor/commissioners by subst'ing the templates and editing. (Yes, the NWT did have lieutenant-governors at one point, which I didn't know before I did all this). I did assume some intelligence on the part of the editor though. Anyway, the redlinks that are there are proper potential articles (plus/minus some use of the word "the" for YU and NWT). Tom pw (talk) 00:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * After a quick fiddle with your sandbox by putting "the" in front of Yukon and NWT I found List of airports in the Yukon and List of airports in the Northwest Territories. There is also Category:Census divisions of the Canadian territories. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll add some redirects. I've had the same problem with "in PEI" verses "on PEI".  --Arctic Gnome 17:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I did some tweaks so the "the" can be included. [Edit: more tweaks needed, methinks]. The "in PEI" vs. "on PEI" hadn't occurred to me... (though I would argue that the topics relate to stuff in the province, not on the island)... anyway, re-directs are good :-) Tom pw (talk) 23:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, someone subst'ed the template... (but Parser functions don't subst, for some reason). I went through and added "the" where needed. Tom pw (talk) 18:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I updated some of the table to keep up with the new/found articles. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 20:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * If we find anything that is titled "on PEI", we should probably move it to "in". Bearcat 00:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Should this table be added to Provinces and territories of Canada in the see also section (I find this indexed-by-province list very useful). --Qyd 16:50, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's actually a good idea, I think; it provides a helpful catalogue of sorts to the various "topic by province" links. Bearcat 06:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. --Qyd 22:50, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I ended up turning the table into a template: Canadian provinces summary table. --Qyd 23:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Huge Issue Not Adressed
There was recently some unpleasantness over the issue of the terms White Canadian and European Canadian. I'm not here to re-hash the arguments over the pages that were set up for those terms. But I am concerned about their use in other Canadian-history articles. I belive when talking about "caucasian" settlers moving from Ontario and Quebec to Alberta, to differenciate them from First Nations, we should call them White settlers, not European. European should be reserved for people who came directly from Ireland or Ukraine or Germany. Can we and should we have a common standard on this issue for Cnd History articles? Kevlar67 08:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * When contrasting them with natives, maybe the term "colonists" would be better. The term "European" implies a first generation immigrant, which many were not; and the term "white" excludes other immigrants, such as blacks and Chinese (and maybe even eastern Europeans), which were all present in fairly high numbers by the 1800s.  --Arctic Gnome 09:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * While that's true, it's also the case that black and Asian Canadians weren't exactly moving in large numbers to the Prairies at that point in Canadian history; the Asian immigrants were concentrated primarily in British Columbia, and the blacks were mostly in Southwestern Ontario and Nova Scotia. To determine appropriate terminologies, we need to be clear on what was actually happening demographically at any given time — early Prairie settlement did primarily involve people of European heritage, and who were often — although certainly not always — brand new immigrants. Black and Asian settlement on the Prairies mostly occurred later on. Bearcat 23:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My problem with "colonists" is confusion with the legal / political meaning of that term, someone who lives in a British colony. I think that experiences of a Ontarian moving to Fort Gary in 1870 is quite different from a Ukrainian arriving in Dauphin in 1900, and using "European" for both obscures this.  The discussion first came up over Westlock, Alberta, which the local history describes as being founded by Irish-Americans.  I don't think they are "Europeans", but are certainly "White".  Kevlar67 02:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Ann Coulter
There is a debate at Talk:Ann_Coulter regarding Canada's role in the Vietnam War and Ann Coulter's claim that Canada sent troops. Sixth Estate 14:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Standardizing lists of premiers
Now that the election timelines are all standardized and featured, political lists buffs may want to help out with the lists of premiers. Check out WikiProject Government of Canada/first ministers. --Arctic Gnome 19:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Got images for all the Saskatchewan Premiers. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * All provinces now have intros. --Arctic Gnome 20:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe that Arctic Gnome's gone and finished Saskatchewan then. I think it just needs the refs for the ridings and assembly numbers. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 04:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It also needs the ridings for about half of the premiers. Once we find references for them I'll fill them out and it will be ready for a FL nomination.  --Arctic Gnome 04:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. --Arctic Gnome 16:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Got all the images for Quebec. --Arctic Gnome 18:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Did all the elections for Quebec. Now nominating it at WP:FLC.  --Arctic Gnome 20:17, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Quebec is now featured, but Saskatchewan lost an image. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:59, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It unfortunate that nobody (including myself) didn't scan the pictures first to make sure that copyrights were in place. That first fair use criteria is deadly. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 21:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It is indeed. Ontario has gone from having a full set of photos to missing 9. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 07:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Category:Canadian Forces
Category:Canadian Forces is up for merging with Category:Military of Canada, which is odd, since Category:Royal Canadian Air Force and Category:Royal Canaadian Navy are not being considered, even though CF is a force structure just like the RCAF, RCN, and CA it replaced. see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_January_18

70.51.8.140 07:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Robert Pickton
As many of you know, Robert (Willie) Pickton is currently on trial in Vancouver for 6 counts of first-degree murder. His Wikipedia page is undoubtedly going to sustain elevated levels of vandalism and unhelpful edits, in particular his addition to the 'Canadian serial killers' category to which, per WP:BLP he must not be added until there is a reliable source supporting the inclusion. I ask that readers add this page to your watchlists so we can keep on top of it. Thanks in advance. Anchoress 02:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

PEI Tenant League
I just created this page today, but now realized that the name might not be terribly well thought out. Most people I know who call it anything call it the PEI Tenant's League or PEI Tenants' League. What about P.E.I.? Maybe those should be reidirects? Thoughts?--Markdsgraham 00:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * According to google, many places seem to call it The Tenant League of Prince Edward Island, although These guys call it just the The Tenant League. Since there's no article on The Tenant League, I guess you're free to move it there. No reason to disambiguate if we don't have to. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Joe Volpe
Is it appropriate for a user to repeatedly remove an NPOV notice during a content dispute? (, . CJCurrie 02:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal
Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal are up for renaming at WP:RM, discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Current Local City Time. They want them renamed to Ottawa, Ontario, Toronto, Ontario, Montreal, Quebec, even though these cities are obviously the primary meaning of Ottawa, Toronto, and Montreal. 70.51.9.156 06:16, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * FYI, the discussion at that page has been closed. It might be worth it to monitor Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements) for a few days to see if anything comes up there. There has already been talk about the ownership of conventions that Bearcat brought up (I endorse it, and gave my opinion there). Unless there's something Canadian-centric to discuss, then we should do it there (unless we want to discuss Bearcat's changes). Maybe the best convention for Canadian cities is if Name of City is available, take it. If not, disambiguate (ie, City, Provence). Very KISS-like. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 04:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Vancouver BC, and cities in general
At Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements), there are two discussions going on: 70.51.9.114 06:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) to make city names match the way Associated Press names them (thus introducing a significant US bias)
 * 2) to make Vancouver a dab page (wasn't this handled already?)

Missing images
Something seriously needs to be done about so many missing images, in particular, those of Canadian politicians. NorthernThunder 00:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration
I know that the CCOTW doesn't officially exist anymore, but I'd like to make a suggestion nonetheless: what say we try to improve Steven Truscott a bit now, in advance of the tidal wave that's inevitably going to hit it when the Court of Appeal makes its ruling later this year? Bearcat 02:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Cats by province
you I was looking at Category:Categories by geographical location, adn I didn't like what I saw. You go in and look at that, and look at the excellent coverage we have in Category:Categories by country, Category:Categories by city, and even Category:Categories by state of the United States. Then compare that to the poor coverage we have on Category:Categories by province of Canada, this needs to be fixed. Kevlar67 22:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Sports in Canada
I think the Sports in Canada section is missing some important sports. There is no mention of speed skating or figure skating. Don't we dominate speed skating? If bowling is there, these should be too. Perhaps even diving and synchro swimming. Does anyone else think these are important? CrayonsTasteLikePurple 19:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a heads up. Template:Infobox_City_Canada up for deletion.
Templates_for_deletion —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CaribDigita (talk • contribs) 01:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

How old before removal?
Hi. I've just joined and deleted a couple of old things from different parts of the notice board. How long should things be kept before deletion? semper fictilis 18:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter when, but things should be archived, not deleted. Kevlar67 02:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

2007 Canada Games
2007 Canada Winter Games have just started. Can people do updates for it? Ccccccccccc 06:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Possible featured topic in the near future
I'm hoping that one day there would be a featured topic on Canadian rapid transit. I am hoping for some help with the articles:


 * Toronto subway and RT - many problems, bloated TOC, too listy, no citations, trivia section
 * Montreal Metro - no inline citations
 * Vancouver SkyTrain - in good shape, currently at FAC
 * O-Train - needs expansion
 * C-Train - needs expansion
 * Edmonton Light Rail Transit - needs expansion
 * Rapid transit in Canada - stub

Ideally, these should all be FAs, although GAs aren't bad. If anyone is interesting in helping out, let me know, Thanks, &mdash; Selmo  (talk) 01:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

List of Canadian musicians
List of Canadian musicians is in desperate need of an update; at a guess I'd say it currently includes less than a quarter of the Canadian musicians who actually have articles on Wikipedia. I've done a bit of updating myself, but it's far too big a job for one person to complete all by themselves, so I'd like to ask for a few people to help out. The simplest way to do it is to crossreference the list against the various subcategories of Category:Canadian musicians. I would also note that the list should not include bands, only individual musicians — bands should be listed at List of bands from Canada (which, come to think of it, could probably also use a once-over.) Bearcat 04:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Quebec or Québec?
The issue has come up in revert wars over Quebec recently, with one annon changing all the Quebec's to Québec (none of them were linked). At Naming_conventions_%28city_names%29 it does say that For communities whose names derive from the French language...Such a name should normally include the proper French accenting where appropriate, although a redirect should always be created at an unaccented title since many Wikipedians do not know how to type accented characters. Although the English Name is Quebec, the official and legal name in Québec is Québec. Any comments, ideas? -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 18:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Although Québec is the official name, that name is in the official language, French. For national and sub-national entity, the convention is to use the English name - hence why we have Germany rather than Deutschland, with the latter redirecting to the former. Also, we have New Brunswick rather than Nouveau-Brunswick (and NB is bilingual). So, as this is this the English wikipedia, we shoudl use the English name, with a redirect from the official (French) name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tompw (talk • contribs)


 * Quebec and Québec are two different words which fortuitously look close enough to one another that English-speakers can read and understand the French word. But that doesn't change the fact that a specific English-language term exists for the province which is quite phonetically different than the French version.  It doesn't change the fact that using the French name verbatim in English language contexts is incredibly rare relative to the English form.  The Canadian government is quite emphatic as treating Quebec and Québec as differently from each another as British Columbia is from Colombie-Brittanique, including in legal texts.   Style guides for media useage are quite emphatic about the innapropriateness of Québec in English language contexts except where there's a clear need to articulate the French pronounciation or some sort of uniquely-Francophone understanding of the word.
 * So, to me it's open and shut. Article at "Quebec."  English-language body text throughout the encyclopedia should be "Quebec" The Tom 21:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll add a note to that section to clarify, but it's standard in English to spell Quebec (and Montreal) without accents; to spell them with the accents, in English, is at the very least non-standard and quirky, though not explicitly incorrect as such. English usage is less clear-cut in the cases of smaller communities — for example, it would be very much incorrect to write "Trois Rivieres" instead of Trois-Rivières or "Riviere du Loup" instead of Rivière-du-Loup. But the policy is meant to be that we use the original French in cases where English usage does not show an unequivocal preference for an alternate spelling or name; when such a preference is quite clear and unmistakable, however, we use the English. Bearcat 23:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, looks like everyones on the same page there then. At least now we can say to the annon "look, we've discussed it and came to this decision" (I'm not sure if there's other discussion other places or buried in archives). Thanks for the feedback. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Review Me!) 03:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Just to add my two cents, a little bit late -- when there is a well-established English version of a place name, that is the name we use in the English-language Wikipedia. Therefore, we use Quebec, not Québec, for the same reason we refer to Warsaw (not Warszawa), Munich (not München), Prague (not Praha) and Beijing (not 北京), to name a few.  This issue has come up many times before, especially in respect of Montreal vs. Montréal.  I would suggest that the relevant guideline is Naming conventions (geographic names), which states that we should be using the widely-accepted English-language name where one exists.  Skeezix1000 17:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Translation of French Lyrics
The translation is not as good as it could be, but it get's the point across. However, this section is done improperly and does not convey the real meaning.

"Though your arm knows how to bear the sword, It knows how to bear the cross!"

I understand the difficulty of translating this, as the french must be used in context. But the real meaning is closer to this.

"For your arm knows bearing (or has borne) the sword, It has known bearing the cross"

I know it cannot be said like this, I understand this. But rather then it meaning "Knows how to", it means "Has known", as in "Canada has borne the sword, Canada has borne the cross".

Perhaps someone can correct it.

Sorry I couldn't do it myself. I don't really know how.

Thanks folks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Schme (talk • contribs) 14:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Canadian Calendar
I've started on a Canadian Calendar through the Portal:Current events/Canada. We already have 1997 in Canada to 2007 in Canada. I'm also working on the 2007 months since I have almost daily written a news story in the 2007 year. See February 2007 in Canada for an example. Please help me find use for all these articles in other articles. Specifically Canadian current event articles where 2007 may be linked, we can now use 2007 in Canada, etc. etc. Thanks Mkdw talk 07:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

MP lists
About three months ago, I proposed a potential reformatting of the alphabetical MP lists into tables, but to date my proposal has had no response either way. Could I get some feedback on whether the proposal is worthwhile or not? See Talk:List of Members of the Canadian House of Commons - A. Thanks. Bearcat 21:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it would certainly improve those lists. - SimonP 13:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Statistics Canada population counts
I just wanted to remind everyone that StatsCan will be releasing population and dwelling data tomorrow. The census data will include the usual CMA, CD and CSD information; I'm not sure if the Dissemination area data will also be released; it may require payment.

We should expect some activity on articles about Canadian cities and towns, so let's be a bit more vigilant and ensure the changes are accurate. You should be able to get the data from this page (or the Community profiles 2006 page) on StatsCan's website. If not, start your search for the data here. Mind matrix  01:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * A discussion has been taking place over at Talk:Ottawa surrounding the most appropriate figures to cite for population. Given that Statistics Canada believes there is approximately 3% of Canadians who have not been counted, one user suggested that the population estimate (not yet released by StatsCan) is the more accurate measure. Alternatives discussed have included: using the raw count number released this week, only using the population estimates, or finding a way to include both figures (since neither will be an exact population count). - Cafemusique 18:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll post the link on Statistics Canada's page dealing with this matter. As far as they are concerned, the population estimate is the official population figure, but I'll leave it up to the rest of you to decide either way.
 * [Differences between Statistics Canada’s census counts and population estimates] Jamincan 02:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * We should probably include the census data, but note the issue in the citation attached to each population number. Moreover, the footnote for the citation could include a link to Canada 2006 Census, which clearly needs to be updated to include a discussion about this issue (and other info, such as release dates, data series provided, etc.). I'm not certain whether we should include post-censal data; articles for cities like Toronto or Montreal would have three figures (city, greater region, CMA) for census and post-censal stats in the infoboxes, which would make them messy. The biggest problem with post-censal stats is that the preliminary figures will be released in March 2008, and the final figures in September 2008. Mind  matrix  15:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Music
I've started a new WikiProject to work on articles relating to Canadian music. It's located at WikiProject Canadian music. This is meant to cover all aspects of Canadian music as thoroughly as possible, not just mainstream pop and rock music, so if you have expertise and knowledge in any genre of music — especially if you can contribute in a genre or a time period that isn't adequately covered right now! — please do come help out.

One of the first projects I've identified is that we really need to start cleaning up the dog's breakfast that Music of Canada itself has turned into, so I've started a discussion on that article's talk page to get some ideas going for how we can improve it. This need has been identified more than once in the past, but it's a daunting task that can't be easily accomplished by just one person, and thus it's always fallen by the wayside. So let's get some discussion going and really get that article cleaned up this time. Bearcat 22:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Position of census data in the article
I noticed this edit. Do others think that this is the correct place for the population? I could not find communities in other countries that had the population like that, though no doubt there are some. My concern is what information will be added next, area, density, founding date? We have infoboxes and sections on demographics that the information could be used. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the population should not come before the most essential geographical information. If it should stay, the format should become proper, like (2006 population: 381). Maybe the first sentence of any article can end with "...with a population of 1,234." But not if there's an infobox directly to the right. In Avonlea, Saskatchewan, it is unnecessary because the table is just 2 lines below. In Baker Lake, Nunavut, the population increase is mentioned 2 sentences later, so the actual population can be merged with that sentence to end the first paragraph. –Pomte 04:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we should put all population data right after the city's name, and make it more uniform like (2006 Population 267,500; UA population 305,800; CMA population 698,200) like this, to give an idea to readers how big is the city in terms of urban size. Regarding to Pomte's issue about there is an infobox directly underneath the introductory line, I was setting up a policy, about cities with population higher than 1,000, and with at least 2 sections, will get a template like, and cities with population higher than 10,000, cities will get an Infobox City. Howver, I have only setted this up after I had finish updated Avonlea, Saskatchewan, and note that I am going in an alphabetical order of cities. Now regarding to CambridgeBayWeather's issue, I think that it is no point of putting population information hidden in a sentence, it is very difficult to find. And actually, when you look at other encyclopedia sets, they have population come first, then other information. I suggest we should unify all the formats.  Smcafirst | Chit-Chat  posted at 20:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I just had time before I left the house to look at the "E" section of the paper encyclopedia. It showed Edmunston, New Brunswick in the format "Edmunston (pop, 1234) (c1981)" then for Edmonton it didn't show a population after the name but instead in a similar format to an infobox. While I could live with one population figure after the name I would be against having two or three. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 21:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * CambridgeBayWeather, but why not though, the metropolitan area and the urban area of a city is important, too! I saw you working on articles, mostly in the northern territories, and as I understood, there are not much CMA and CAs there. Or another solution I would suggest is that, we could start a CMA article, you know, say Barrie, Ontario, it has a CMA. But instead of listing the population on the actual article, we can make a subarticle of the CMA area, about its population, the municipalities it included, notable roads, and econmomy?? Smcafirst | Chit-Chat  posted at 20:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's a good idea, but what about those communities that provide their own, more frequent censuses? Which should we use? --Kmsiever 20:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the population, be it city, CMA, urban or metro, is important. If you look at some of the communities like Barrie, Ontario, Belleville, Ontario or Toronto they do have demographic, transportation or Greater Toronto sections and in some cases seperate articles, see Demographics of Toronto. In the case of Barrie the demographics section could do with explaining what communities make up the CMA. I think they are needed and should be included in the article otherwise what you end up with is Allahabad where all the information is gone. Look at Montreal. Now look at User:CambridgeBayWeather/Sandbox where I rewrote the first paragraph with the population data included. I admit that Montreal is an extreme case though. My concern is not so much the population but what happens if in a few months someone else thinks that it's good to add the area in there as well? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I saw your first paragraph of Montreal, and I think that someone adding the area's chance would be minimal. And even so, all other (paper/web) don't put area right after the title, it's the population that they put after it. Unless it is a special case, like disputed boundary, or so on... Then, they may add the area in front. But population should be the most priority. My much younger cousin, she got a Junior Encyclopedia or some sort, and they have the population listed first (I looked up Barrie, Ontario last night), but not the area. Area could be put somewhere later. But, when I looked up Canada, for instance, because Canada is a large landmass (2nd largest in the world), the population is mentioned, then the area. So I think the chance of people wanting to add the area info right after the title is pretty minimal. Smcafirst | Chit-Chat  posted at 21:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Point taken, now I have no problem with it. Technicality: What about making the p in Population lowercase, or abbreviating to pop.? –Pomte 13:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, lower case would work. I have a tendency to capitalize everything. Sorry about that. However, I am not sure abbreviate population into pop is a good idea, since pop could stand for other things, such as "Probablity of Precipiation"? Smcafirst | Chit-Chat | SIGN  posted at 23:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that we ought to seriously consider starting a Wikiproject for all Canadian census communities. We also need to decide if each article will contain the data nicely laid out on a page, an infobox or both. NorthernThunder 07:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I suggest continuing the discussion here, or creating a subpage of WikiProject Canada. It isn't necessary to fork this into another WikiProject, which may become a deletion candidate if it goes inactive. –Pomte 14:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Canadian of English descent vs English-Canadian
Someone renamed English-Canadian as Canadian of English descent, when the English Canadian article talks about english speakers. There's now a Requested Move discussion as well, to make the move official. 70.55.88.134 03:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Juno Awards of 2007
This is Juno weekend in Saskatoon - this is a good time to update the Juno article(s), and to watch out for vandalism. Dl2000 02:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move of Canadian French
Hello! A move of the article Canadian French has been requested. Since this may have implications on other articles, additional editorial input is appreciated. There's been a lot of discussion, and apologise in advance for prolixity. :) Merci!  Corticopia 12:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Kevin Potvin
This lad was recently knocked off the federal Green Party slate after his published comments following 9/11 were revealed to the party's top brass. Since then, there's been major biography of living people concerns on his article from anonymous Potvin-haters. I'm posting this here in the hopes people will put it on their watchlist and revert potentially libelous edits (once the article is unprotected). Thanks, bobanny 00:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Category:Geographic regions of British Columbia et al.
Please see Template talk:Subdivisions of British Columbia where I just replied to someone about why RDs are not suitable as navigation/subdivision parameters for most BC articles; last night I subcatted the RDs from Category:Geographic regions of British Columbia to Category:Regional Districts of British Columbia, an in the Geographic regions cat created most of the "traditional" regions of BC, which are permanent and fixed (unlike RDs) even though they do overlap in various ways; but they're usable. Basic point is RDs are not like counties in ON or QC or the Maritimes or the US; the equivalent to counties here is the "Country" designations, which go back to the colonial period and don't move around at the whim of the government of the day; I won't re-explain what I laid out on the template talk page, but there's a host of reasons "why not" to use RDs. The "Countries" do happen to coincide, on many occasions, with the old original "Mining Districts" but not with the Land Districts; as articles on those get written, as with the RDs, they'll get more than one "parallel" cat (Lillooet, British Columbia is necessarily in the Fraser Canyon, Lillooet Country, and Cariboo Country regions, for instance; but they're recognizable to BCers, and also occur in writings on the place more than RD names ever will; nobody talks in terms of RD names except for official purposes; similar objections/corrections needed on the "People from" cats for BC; nobody says "Hi, I'm from the Regional District of Mount Waddington" and somebody who was from there but has been away for years wouldn't even know the name of the RD....Skookum1 14:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, Regional districts of British Columbia are equivalent to Census divisions, and their boundaries are fixed and well defined. In the case of BC, they coincide with a form of administrative division (they have some sort of municipal government, a "board of directors", and each has a website, and they are incorprated). Additionally, information regarding demographics (area, population, even income) is easy to find from Statistis Canada. So I would say that RD are more "formal" than traditional geographic or historic regions. --Qyd 17:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Maurice Ruddick
If you are Canadian, you undoubtedly have seen the Heritage Moments tv commercials and you have probably seen the one about the Springhill mining disaster. The commercial has a black man who is said to be Maurice Ruddick, yet, I found this article of the real Maurice Ruddick who appears to be white. Am I confused or did someone else make a mistake? NorthernThunder 17:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * From Last Man Out: The Story of the Springhill Mining Disaster: "Light-eyed, olive-skinned Ruddick represented the third generation of a Negro Nova Scotia coal-mining family. "Both Mother and Father had colored blood in them," is how Ruddick put it." Apparently not quite as black and white as the heritage minutes would have us believe. bobanny 18:31, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * So he was biracial? NorthernThunder 02:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently mixed; from the quote I'd guess that both parents were mulatto. Though he looks pretty white in the photo (compared with the actor in the heritage minute at least), the impression I get is that he identified/was identified as black rather than white. Mind you, I didn't delve too deep. I just became curious by your question whether the heritage minutes people screwed up. bobanny 03:40, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've known two guys who were mulatto on both sides, one on Saltspring, one in East Van, and they both referred to themselves as being "a zebra"; not that that's a common or established usage but I found it interesting/cute. One was also a Kanaka.....Skookum1 06:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Styleguide for British Columbia standard usages
Posting a link to this item on the BC project talkpage here rather than on this noticeboard's BC subpage because often enough articles written by/about other provinces/regions and people/events in them also refer to British Columbia; the styleguide issues in question should not only be reflected in BC articles, but in any Canadian article (or any article) that uses them.Skookum1 06:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Prime Ministers by height
I would like to suggest, if we can find the correct information, adding the heights of the Prime Ministers of Canada. NorthernThunder 19:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * To their articles, sure. The fact that people actually think a separate list of US presidents by height is remotely encyclopedic is one of the big mysteries of Wikipedia, however. Bearcat 22:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Please watchlist Terry Fox
I think this could use some more eyes. Vandalism sometimes stays up there for hours. Kla'quot 04:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Heads Up for Images
We just got a from a bot about fair use rational. So everyone make sure the things like logos (especially of political parties) have the Non-free media rationale template to back up the fair use boilerplate. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Review Me!) 22:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Montreal night life
Montreal night life is being considered for deletion at Articles for deletion/Montreal night life 132.205.44.134 00:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Category:Quebecers of French descent and Category:Francophone Quebecers up for deletion
User:Steam5 wants to collapse Category:Francophone Quebecers and Category:Quebecers of French descent into Category:French Quebecers. To me, this seems to show a profound lack of understanding of the Canadian reality... 70.55.90.138 04:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Category:Historical Quebec MNAs, Category:Historical Ontario MPPs, Category:Historical New Brunswick MLAs
Category:Historical Quebec MNAs, Category:Historical Ontario MPPs, Category:Historical New Brunswick MLAs are up for merging into their parents at WP:CFD. 132.205.44.134 21:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * For the record, we're actually not supposed to be using the category system to split "historical" from "current" legislators. We convey a legislator's time period by linking to them from the appropriate articles on the assemblies they sat in, not by having separate categories to distinguish historical legislators from current ones. Bearcat 22:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Media
A few reminders for everybody, since those of us who frequently do Canadian media-related edits are still running into problems around these:
 * 1) When making an edit that relates to the CBC, link to the specific service being referred to (CBC Television, CBC Radio One, CBC Radio 2, CBC Radio 3, Télévision de Radio-Canada, Première Chaîne, Espace musique, Bande à part, CBC Newsworld, Réseau de l'information, Radio Canada International, etc.), and not just to Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. The general link should only be used for edits which pertain to the whole thing as a single entity (e.g. "Pierre Juneau was a former president of..."), not for edits pertaining to particular stations or programs. Those must link to a specific CBC service — Little Mosque on the Prairie airs on CBC Television, not on the whole Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
 * 2) For individual radio and television stations, the correct link is "CXXX-TV", "CXXX-FM" or "CXXX (AM)", not just "CXXX". It is possible for stations on different broadcast bands to have the same call sign, so CXXX alone may very well be a disambiguation page rather than the radio or television station you mean to link to.
 * 3) Link to Citytv only when referring to the whole system — if your intention is to refer to a specific station within the system, link either to that particular station's call sign, or to "Citytv Toronto"/"Citytv Vancouver"/"Citytv Wherever". And do not under any circumstances give "CHUM Television" as an alternative to Citytv or A-Channel when referring to the specific television network that a program or personality is associated with, especially now that an ownership separation between the two is imminent.

For points #1 and #3, here's a quick litmus test that might help clarify what you should be linking to: momentarily pretend that the article you're writing involves CTV or Global instead (your choice, doesn't matter), and ask yourself: if that were the case, would you be linking to Global Television Network/CTV television network, or to Canwest Global/CTVglobemedia? If you'd be linking to the companies, then Canadian Broadcasting Corporation or CHUM Television are correct. If you'd be linking to the networks, however, then link to CBC Television, Citytv, etc., not to the companies that own them.

Hope that helps a bit... Bearcat 09:45, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Canadian Internal Waters
Based on the comment at Talk:Northwest Passage and a quick look at this I've change the above from a redirect to a stub. However, it would appear from the TC definition that all bodies of water other than the Arctic, Pacific and Atlantic ocean should be included. Can someone have a look and see about expanding. THanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:10, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

2006 Census data infobox
Do we have a specific infobox that has been declared appropriate for entering the 2006 Canada Census data for recognized communities? I would like to get started in adding such boxes to Canadian community articles, but, I want a consensus on which infobox to use before I go ahead. NorthernThunder 04:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Aboriginal Day of Protest
I've started a basic stub article on yesterday's aboriginal protests. However, as the most visible media sources tended to focus only on the Mohawk blockade at Deseronto, and missed a lot of the other stuff that happened elsewhere in Canada (Bala, Northern Ontario, Mercier Bridge, etc.), a lot of additional sources will be needed to get the article right. Consequently, I'm asking for some help in improving the article. Bearcat 22:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)