Wikipedia talk:Don't draw misleading graphs

Name change
You might consider a shorter name, and broaden the concept to presentation rather than drawing. For example Presenting graphs

Is this pertinent to the Manual of style, where it would cary more weight than an Essay? I would likely support that if we could come to a reasonable concept. --Kevin Murray (talk) 18:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Develop and perfect it first as an essay. When it is good enough, then it can be incorporated into the MoS if appropriate.--Srleffler (talk) 20:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Follow originals?
Should we have a suggestion to follow scales in graphs used in the reliable sources used for an article? We'd still want to avoid following misleading originals, of which many exist, unless the dispute over the accuracy of the graph is textually discussed in the article. GRBerry 13:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

A bit odd
The essay makes the point that "0 K is far removed from physically obtainable values" but in the previous example, zero employment in the US is just as implausible as a 0 K day in Boston. In general I think this essay is poor because its excessive focus on the use of zero as the X intercept obscures the actual point. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Also, I think that the idea that say, "graph X is misleading since it doesn't start at the origin and seems to show a tripling when actually that didn't happen" is silly since, if the values on the axis are clear in the thumbnail, and hence the fact it doesn't start at 0 is clear, then it shouldn't need to start at 0. I mean, each article (there must be hundreds of thousands?) that contains a graph shouldn't also teach someone that a graph doesn't always start at 0. It should be assumed that the reader knows what graphs are and how to use them, same as with all other data given on Wikipedia, but that if they are confused about how to use a graph, then they should just look up graph. Deamon138 (talk) 19:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Misleading zeros or misleading essay?
In the case of the Mauna Loa CO2 graph -now tagged as misleading- it would actually be more misleading to refer the graph to zero concentration for two reasons:
 * 1) the natural background level (prior to industrialization) was not zero.
 * 2) on such a scale it would no longer be possible to see the trend relative to the yearly fluctuations of the concentration.

In a lot of technical and scientific literature, being able to see an effect with respect to the noise level is far more important than absolute scale.

I therefore have trouble with the whole essay, in that the assay is rather misleading itself on such points. Jcwf (talk) 19:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree that either of these graphs are misleading to a point where they are objectionable. See the comment on the unemployment graph. --Ben (talk) 02:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Consensus
On Wikipedia essays, it says, "Essays that are in the Wikipedia project space (prefixed by "Wikipedia:" or "WP:") should ideally represent a consensus amongst the broad community of Wikipedia editors." This essay is in the Wikipedia project space, but judging by the comments on here, I don't think it has consensus, so shouldn't this be removed from the project space? Deamon138 (talk) 20:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That doesn't really seem to be an accurate description of how essays are used in practice. Christopher Parham (talk) 22:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well maybe so, but WP:essay, where the quote came from, is used fairly regularly, so it has some authority, maybe not as much as a policy or guideline, but still some. Plus, it is linked to (as part of the main article) from WP:PG, an official policy. Where did it get decided that this essay should become part of the project space, rather than being on someone's userpage? Deamon138 (talk) 00:53, 30 June 2008 (UTC)