Wikipedia talk:Good article reassessment/Cham Albanians/1


 * Comment. This article has suffered too much from theoretical criticism with abstract ideas and uncertain solutions from every side. Since there is no concrete question there is neither concrete answer. Suppose we have to sit down and see whats wrong word-by-word.Alexikoua (talk) 14:33, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * POV is not a theoretical idea at all. I have started rewriting the Chameria article, but I anticipate that the Greek nationalist version of history will be insisted upon there as well. Xenos2008 (talk) 18:34, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Today's contribution of User:Xenos in related article Chameria: [], [], [], [] is far from being considered constructive. Seems the so-called 'academic' arguments are nothing more than promoting an unsourced pro-Albanian approach, which can be simply called vandalism (extensive descriptions that consider Albanians as victims, Greeks as criminals even from the lead, and almost nothing about collaborationist activity & no additional sources at all).

Characteristically, he deleted (twice) a sentence sourced from a work of V. Roudomentof [] (p. 157: "there was little evidence of state persecution ...[during the internment]), with the explanation that this book is not about Chameria (on the contrary it's one of the most significant works on Greek-Albanian issues) []. Replacing it with the unsourced pov expression "There is evidence of systematic state persecution..".

Since the same user has also a record [] promoting annoying behavior, it seems that his arguments can not been taken seriously into account.Alexikoua (talk) 20:24, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 *  Needless to say, there is very little good quality work done on this area, because of the greek and albanian nationalist mentality.
 * Incidentally, I tried to put in some scholarly references, but they failed to work. I agree that references are needed for some of the alterations. Xenos2008 (talk) 20:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for retaining an academic level in your discussion.Alexikoua (talk) 20:58, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I apologise for my rash language, above. Look, you Greeks have got to get to grips with the historical reality here: Greek military forces conquered what is now northern Greece, and tried to make it Greek. They were an invading army with a reputation for brutality. The Cham at that time were victims, and you have just got to face that. Everything that follows is a logical progression of an ethnic group that refused to become orthodox Greek, and was brutalised partly by terrorist irregular forces and partly by Greek state "tricks". All of this reality is missing from both the Chams and Chameria article, and is sufficiently well documented to be included. Xenos2008 (talk) 21:52, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

As I expected, attempts to remove the Greek POV are resisted with a battle to the death. Greek nationalism is alive and well: the truth, of course, is lying dead in the corner. Xenos2008 (talk) 23:37, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Speaking for "academic arguments": The academic argument "There is some sort of cultural problem in Greece, and it seems to exist also in Serbia, Romania and Russia [all Orthodox countries, you will note], which is that the entire population is paranoid" is there any possibility to be yours? Is there any possibility to blame entire populations in being paranoid and to feel well? And NPOV? --Factuarius (talk) 04:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me? where is this written? You seem to be very confused about what I have placed on WP. Xenos2008 (talk) 12:10, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it so difficult for you to tone down a bit your language? Believe me: swearing and targeting a whole nation ("you Greeks bla bla bla") is no help for your case. I removed your offending comments above, and I hope that I'll see nothing similar again.--Yannismarou (talk) 16:05, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added a note to make it clear that the comment has been refactored (so that the subsequent discussion makes sense). Geometry guy 16:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * To Xenos: I maybe confused but you are not: What you are saying here and what you are saying in other places proves the same ethnic hating: "That's characteristic of Balkan peasants, which is what most Greeks are, and there is no possibility to have a polite rational discourse. You will influence Greek policy only by humiliating and abusing the people who support it, in my experience." Is this your agenda here? or I am again confused? --Factuarius (talk) 18:16, 31 August 2009 (UTC)