Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Punctuation inside or outside

Punctuation inside or outside


Commas and periods, when following a quotation, can be placed inside or outside quotation marks depending on where they are placed in the quoted material; this is known as logical punctuation or British style. Alternatively they can be placed inside the quotation marks no matter where they appear in the quoted material; this is known as aesthetic punctuation or American style. Although known as American style and widely used in North America, the latter is also followed in British journalism and fiction writing.

Editors may use either style so long as the article is internally consistent. In case of dispute, defer to the style used by the first major contributor.

Logical punctuation
When using logical punctuation editors should maintain the original position of the punctuation marks in (or absence from) the quoted material. This punctuation system does not require placing final periods and commas outside the quotation marks all the time.


 * {|style="background:transparent"


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Arthur said, "The situation is deplorable and unacceptable."
 * (The period is known to be in the source.)
 * (The period is known to be in the source.)
 * (The period is known to be in the source.)


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Arthur said that the situation was "deplorable".
 * (The period is known not to be in the source, its presence in the source is uncertain, or its coverage within the quotation is considered unnecessary.)
 * (The period is known not to be in the source, its presence in the source is uncertain, or its coverage within the quotation is considered unnecessary.)
 * (The period is known not to be in the source, its presence in the source is uncertain, or its coverage within the quotation is considered unnecessary.)
 * (The period is known not to be in the source, its presence in the source is uncertain, or its coverage within the quotation is considered unnecessary.)


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Martha asked, "Are you coming?"
 * (The question mark belongs inside because the quoted text itself was a question.)
 * (The question mark belongs inside because the quoted text itself was a question.)
 * (The question mark belongs inside because the quoted text itself was a question.)
 * (The question mark belongs inside because the quoted text itself was a question.)


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Did Martha say, "Come with me"?
 * (The very quote is being questioned, so the question mark belongs outside; any punctuation at the end of the original quote is omitted.)
 * (The very quote is being questioned, so the question mark belongs outside; any punctuation at the end of the original quote is omitted.)
 * (The very quote is being questioned, so the question mark belongs outside; any punctuation at the end of the original quote is omitted.)
 * (The very quote is being questioned, so the question mark belongs outside; any punctuation at the end of the original quote is omitted.)


 * }
 * When a quoted sentence fragment ends in a period, some judgment is required: if the fragment communicates a complete sentence, the period can be placed inside. The period should be omitted if the quotation is in the middle of a sentence.
 * {|style="background:transparent"


 * Correct: || Martha said, "Come with me", and they did.
 * }
 * If the sequence of juxtaposed punctuation marks seems distracting or untidy, try an acceptable alternative.
 * {|style="background:transparent"


 * Correct: || Martha said, "Come with me" (and they did).
 * }

Aesthetic punctuation
When using aesthetic punctuation, commas and periods are always placed inside the quotation marks, no matter where they are found in the quoted text.


 * {|style="background:transparent"


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Jane said, "I am very happy about it."
 * (This is correct no matter where the period was placed in the quoted text.)
 * (This is correct no matter where the period was placed in the quoted text.)
 * (This is correct no matter where the period was placed in the quoted text.)


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Jane said that she was "very happy about it."
 * (Again, the closing period is placed within quotation marks, no matter where it appeared in the quoted text.)
 * (Again, the closing period is placed within quotation marks, no matter where it appeared in the quoted text.)
 * (Again, the closing period is placed within quotation marks, no matter where it appeared in the quoted text.)
 * (Again, the closing period is placed within quotation marks, no matter where it appeared in the quoted text.)


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Susan said, "Wait there," so they waited.
 * (The comma after "there" is placed within the quotation marks, no matter where or whether it appeared in the original text.)
 * (The comma after "there" is placed within the quotation marks, no matter where or whether it appeared in the original text.)
 * (The comma after "there" is placed within the quotation marks, no matter where or whether it appeared in the original text.)
 * (The comma after "there" is placed within the quotation marks, no matter where or whether it appeared in the original text.)


 * }


 * Colons, semi-colons, question marks and exclamation marks follow the closing quotation marks, unless the question or exclamation mark were part of the quoted text.


 * {|style="background:transparent"


 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || "Where is she going?"
 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Who said, "where is she from"?
 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || She asked me to say "I love you"; I could not say it.
 * }
 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || Who said, "where is she from"?
 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || She asked me to say "I love you"; I could not say it.
 * }
 * style="vertical-align:top" rowspan=2|Correct: || She asked me to say "I love you"; I could not say it.
 * }
 * }
 * }
 * }

Comments
The parenthetical remarks under "Aesthetic punctuation" are redundant.

The penultimate example seems to be in error, as the quoted text is a question which surely would require its own question mark, and also a capital letter as it forms a full sentence: Who said, "Where is she from?"? Perhaps another example would be better: Who said, "Jane will do it"? —sroc (talk) 22:12, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point. In AS, which of the question marks in Who said, "Where is she from?"? is right? Or both? The best style guides take much more time over these things. Why do we think we can cover it in less? --Stfg (talk) 23:50, 30 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Where did the term "aesthetic punctuation" come from? --Stfg (talk) 23:50, 30 June 2013 (UTC)