Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics/Archive 30

A number of articles which could use a look
Hello,

As I've posted on this talk page before, I spend some time helping out with the dead-end pages project, and it appears that there are a number of pages on India-related topics listed there which could use the attention of some editors more familiar with that country/culture/etc. Some of these may need cleanup and improvement, others may merit deletion. I'll start with the C's, and continue later with other letters of the alphabet:


 * Chakravakam
 * Chalunka
 * Chanakya (TV series)
 * Chandi Mandir done xC | ☎  08:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Chandrakant S. Pandav initial cleanup. on my worklist now. xC |  ☎  08:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Chandralekha Perera
 * Chauke
 * Chembakur
 * Chennai Business School
 * Chennithala
 * Choora
 * Chouhan
 * Cuisine of Pune

As a preview of the D's, Devrukhe and all of its linked articles (Devrukhe Brahmins - Kuladaiwatas, Devrukhe Brahmins - Original 98 Villages, Devrukhe Brahmins - List of Surnames and Gotras, and Devrukhe Brahmins - List of Institutions founded by Devrukhes) could really use a look as well.

Thanks, JavaTenor 19:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Central Travancore
Please have a look at Articles for deletion/Central Travancore. I nominated it, considering past history of the creator in creating hoax or self-promotion article. However, I would encourage advice whether this article could be reformed into something useful. --Soman (talk) 10:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Kugur
I found this page while on WP:CLEANUP duty. I thought I'd send it over here to see if anyone in this Wikiproject has a better idea of how to clean it up. Manning (talk) 15:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have cleaned up Kugur a bit. Regards, Ganeshk  ( talk ) 01:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Update - I can add this page - Leva Patil to this list. Manning (talk) 01:20, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Help on two pages
I could use a bit of help with the pages Ramakkalmade and Ramakkalmedu, which I came across while working on the Dead end pages project.

Except for the name, the articles are identical. Are these two different places and an editor saved a bit of time by copying the text? Or are these two different spellings / transcriptions of the same place, meaning one article should become a redirect.

Thanks for any help! --Fabrictramp (talk) 21:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Ganeshk, for straightening out the articles.--Fabrictramp (talk) 23:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem. Thanks for posting here. Regards, Ganeshk  ( talk ) 01:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ganeshbot article merge is complete
I have some good news to report. All of the articles on the Ganeshbot/Not created page have been merged to the article namespace. Thanks to all who volunteered with the project. Regards, Ganeshk  ( talk ) 05:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Congrats to everyone who worked to get this done...!! The Silent Contributor (talk) 10:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Redirect
The pages L Aravind, L. Aravind and User:Jivarahasya all seem to redirect to each other. I am not an Indian expert so I don't know what but what L. Aravind is but there seems to be something strange going on here! Can anyone help? Harland1 t/c 17:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Chennai workgroup
I started a Chennai workgroup to focus on improving Chennai-related articles, suburbs, landmarks, transport etc. If interested, please join in and help out. Thanks, Ganeshk  ( talk ) 06:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Sachin Tendulkar
I just decided Sachin Tendulkar should be an FA. I've done quite a bit of work on the article recently, but I was hoping someone with experience in writing an FA could help me because the article's loaded with unnecessary information and personal views and referring to people by first names etc. Thnaks. Darrowen (talk) 05:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Kamboja
Please see here for an outline of "Wikipedia's Kamboja problem". Anyone wishing to tackle this is most welcome to it... dab (𒁳) 17:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

British Indians, pre-1947 Pakistanis, ancient Bangladesh...
Debate reemerges at Categories for discussion/Log/2007 December 13. Please contribute to the discussion. As noted on this talk page before, I oppose driving an iron wedge between pre-1947 and post-1947 India. --Soman (talk) 17:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Anuradha Sriram
Friends, there have repeatedly been attempts to delete Indian playback singer Anuradha Sriram. I dont understand this bias amongst the editors towards India-specific articles. I've alread provided the references and this article is quite good. I want your help in contesting the delete.Thanks -- Rustam  07:27, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

fork?
Deletion_review/Log/2007_December_15. Please help the discussion as to whether this kind of religious forking should be present. Baka man  23:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Important missing articles

 * Great Eastern Hotel -
 * Manesar


 * Billiards players
 * Ashok Shandilya -
 * Michael Ferreira -
 * T. A. Selvaraj
 * Subhash Aggarwal

Noticed some important sports people without an article. If anyone has the time, please could this be populated? Regards, =Nichalp   «Talk»=  03:55, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

portal link in template?
Template_talk:WP_India. —Random832 17:42, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

New list articles
The following new articles have been created:


 * List of Indian states ranked by population density
 * List of Indian states ranked by fertility rate
 * List of Indian states ranked by literacy rate
 * List of Indian states ranked by households having electricity
 * List of Indian states ranked by household size
 * List of Indian states ranked by vaccination coverage
 * List of Indian states ranked in order of television ownership
 * List of Indian states ranked by media exposure

These pages seem to stray into the "NOT a collection of indiscriminate lists" category. Perhaps the more notable ones could be placed on one page, but even then I think it would be a stretch. I have not AFD these pages as yet, tho I am seriously considering it. - BillCJ (talk) 19:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure that I understand your language. Could you please explain more??? What do you mean by "straying into NOT a collection of indescriminate lists"?? What is AFD???? I would like to present why I thinkl these lists are suitable here?? Fair and Honest_India —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vcpkumar (talk • contribs) 20:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Naresh Sonee
Could someone please look at the article on Naresh Sonee? When I searched for references to him in English, I found self-published articles and poems on the web, but nothing else to suggest notability. His article and the one on his book, which I have put an AfD on, both make claims to notability, butthere are either no refrences or the references are not from reliable secondary sources. I am particularly concerned about this because the (English) items of his work that I have read have seemed both poorly reasoned and written. However, I really need help form someone with knowledge of India and things Indian, because of my own ignorance about such things. Anarchia (talk) 04:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty, pretty please could someone check out Naresh Sonee's article and the article on his book Brhmaand Pujan, and write something on the talk pages or the article for deletion pages. I am unacceptably POV about this (everything I have read that has been written by the author of the article makes me feel ill, and I find Naresh Sonee's work similarly repugnant - atrociously argued with very poor English langauge skills), and, as I said above, almost as ignorant of India and its people as one can be. I am going to stay out of the debate now, but a glance at the above articvles will show you that something needs to be done, whether tidy up or deletion. Anarchia (talk) 20:27, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I second Anarchia's request. We really need some people who are more knowledgeable about India and with Hindi sources to evaluate these articles. They need help, definitely. Aleta (talk) 17:13, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

re South Indian names and initials
please have a say at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_%28people%29. --Soman (talk) 11:42, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Indian wine
Hello! By special request of User:The Fat Man Who Never Came Back and User:BorgQueen, I've started the Indian wine article. It is in a very rough, early state and I would greatly appreciate any help from the India project in developing it further. Anything from fact checking to images to expansion would be wonderful, especially from a project with such a great track record in producing FAs. Thanks! AgneCheese/Wine 19:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

VP PCS praises Wikipedia
"The Internet is all set to become the preferred platform for service delivery. Ever since Wikipedia democratised the process of knowledge sharing, collaboration has become the buzzword."Dilip Dhanuka, senior vice-president and head of product and technology initiatives, Patni Computer Systems.

Mahitgar (talk) 12:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Religion of the people who have raised a celebrity
I would like to draw attention to a particular line in Shahrukh Khan. It reads, "Khan's family is Muslim, and he was raised by Hindus for most of his life.[3]" The reference given is this, which is an interview and indeed SRK says that he was raised by Hindus for most of his life.

My question is this - why do we need to know the religion of the people who raised him? Khan was a Hindu, but was raised by Hindus for most of his life. How is that information necessary in a biography? Its like stating "Eminem is a white rapper, and most of his colleagues are black." in an article about Eminem. Or like stating "Rakesh Roshan is bald, and most of his colleagues have hair." How is it relevant? Why do we need to have the religion of the people who have raised him in the article?

I propose dropping that part and leaving it to the relevant portion,"Khan was born into a Muslim family."

xC | ☎  07:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Religion is a major identifying characteristic of groups of people, unlike baldness. There are no "bald samaj"'s running around in the country. The false analogies provided do nothing do answer the fact that religion is a defining factor of a person, in fact possibly the defining factor. Baka man  23:50, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Bakasuprman has a point here. It is like this: Bhadani is a Hindu but he was educated in schools run by Roman Catholics. Is this statement unusual? It may be unusual though I am not sure. --Bhadani (talk) 04:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If "Bhadani" passed WP:NN, it probably would merit a mention in an "early life" section. As I stated above, religion is extremely relevant and notable in India. Baka man  04:47, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Indian highways project
A vast information about Indian highways lie unorganized and is not properly shown by using infoboxes, templates and images. We shall start a project titled, Indian Highways to improve quality of articles relating to Indian highways. - Manik (talk) 10:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Anjarle - Anjarla
I sure hope this is the right project. Would someone be willing to look at Anjarle - Anjarla and see what can be done with it? It was on my watchlist, because the author originally created a near-empty page, but later added content. It's still very confusing to me, but the author removed the cleanup/confusing tags. I'm grossly ignorant on this topic, and would not even know where to begin. Thanks Yng  varr  10:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I cleaned it up a bit. The history section needs work though. Regards, Ganeshk  ( talk ) 04:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That's great, thank you. Gives a much clearer context. Yng  varr  11:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Spoken Wikipedia
Is there a way to pull out the list of audio recordings for wikipedia pages related to India? Any suggestions admins can provide? Thanks Arunram (talk) 20:20, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * A bot could probably do that. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  09:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Music of Karnataka
There is a proposal to merge a new article, Karnataka/Carnatic music, into Music of Karnataka. There is no consensus at this point and input from people knowledgeable in the subject area and Wikipedia policy would be helpful. See the discussion at Talk:Music of Karnataka. ✤ JonHarder talk 13:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * My comments. --Bhadani (talk) 15:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Bhadani has misunderstood the issue, which does not really involve either Carnatic music or music of Karnataka - nobody is arguing that they should be merged. The issue is the incomprehensible mess at Karnataka/Carnatic music; at this point, I don't think I really support any merge, as there is no coherent content to use at Karnataka/Carnatic music, no matter what it's purported subject is. There's one user who very much doesn't seem to understand what's happening (there's a language barrier), and isn't able to explain what that article is supposed to be about. If anyone could help communicate, it would be most appreciated. Tuf-Kat (talk) 06:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Indians who make pro-Jewish edits will get blocked indefinitely
I was User:Librorum Prohibitorum. I had disputes mainly with two editors (Administrator Dbachmann, and Hornplease). Now the admin has blocked me indefinitely, claiming I was a Hkelkar sock without any evidence at all. He has done this witout even leaving a message or explanation somewhere. If you look at, I don't edit the same articles. In my last edit I was writing something positive about Jews. This is the only reason that I can think of that someone would think that I am Hkelkar. Picaroon (or the editor who asked him to do this) thinks that every Hindu editor who says something positive about Jews must be a Hkelkar sock (Hkelkar was a Hindu-Jewish editor). This is a grave Adminstrator abuse. Librorum Prohibitorum2 (talk) 15:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year to everybody
A warm, fun-filled, informative Happy New Year to you all!!! May this year give you the best and bring out the best in you. The Silent Contributor (talk) 08:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year to all and hope for a better Year. Amartyabag   TALK2ME  09:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Newsletter
Why there is no newsletter of WikiProject India since March 2007?? Can any one revive its old glory and make this newsletter a regular monthly issue. Amartyabag  TALK2ME  09:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi there ONE, or every body of YOU
I need help of YOU ONE or few Happy New year Pls help me to circulate this appeal- if any body/ or few of You brillaiants who reside in North India can tell me about newspapers in India like Punjab Kesari, Dainik Bhaskar, Rajasthan Patrika ? Their circulation or popularity. & if any body of you know Hindi. or interested to explore different/ all or specific religion, philosophy , poetry etc. I want your help to translate some few 50 line of Hindi to English. Pls. Gift your name to me on my talk page please  Regards - --Dralansun (talk) 15:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Hyderabadi Urdu
There is an article on Hyderabadi Urdu with apparently no references and yet no sign-board. There is another article on Dakhni. Can these articles be merged? Also, I would like to know if we can start a Wikiproject on Hindustani(Hindi and Urdu) and the associated languages("Hindi" group: Bhojpuri, Marwari, etc. and "Urdu" group: Rekhta, Dakhni). The logic being that the subject matter is so huge and related to each other in such a complex manner that a separate treatment of these aforementioned articles would make the task difficult. Also, which language is Hindawi? Maquahuitl (talk) 18:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I have created a template for Hindustani. All links are working except one. Please have a look. Courtesy: bengali template. Maquahuitl (talk) 13:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * SOMEONE PLEASE REPLY.
 * First of all can someone tell me why we have Khariboli and Hindustani as two separate articles? These are not two separate entities, are they? Hindi and Urdu can be accepted as two separate entities at least, if not languages, and therefore two different articles for them is justified. Furthermore, you can say that Hindi and Urdu are two standards or registers of Hindustani. Then what is Khariboli? The problem is that Khariboli is a medieval name which the Braj bhashis and Awadhiyas used for language of Western UP and Delhi, and the name is used in modern contexts even though it makes little sense.
 * How do we organise the set of languages related to Hindi? We have basically four sets of languages:
 * 1. Naturally evolved languages of those states of India who have Hindi as their main official language. These are- Braj bhasha, Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Marwari, Pahari languages of Uttaranchal and HP, etc. I think we should deal with them under two headings: "Hindi languages" and "Indo-Aryan languages". Someone has written a "Hindi languages" article- I think that was a wonderful idea.
 * 2. Languages of foreign countries who have migrants from UP-Bihar region. These are Fijian Hindustani, Tajiki, Mauritian and Carribean Hindustani. The issue is complex here. For example, it will be difficult to decide whether to put Fijian Hindustani as a dialect of Hindustani or as a dialect of Bhojpuri or Awadhi, which is likely to have been their mother tongues of the people when they migrated(however India's effects of modern Hindi standard cannot be ignored). I have absolutely no suggestions for this. It could be possible that we deal them case-by-case, eg. Mauritius' language might be called a dialect of Bhojpuri, but Fijian a dialect of Hindustani. Or perhaps we can treat them as different languages altogether, I am not sure.
 * 3. Dakhni and Rekhta. These are special cases. It will make no sense to call them dialects of Urdu, because Urdu itself is a standard of Hindustani. Similarly there is no sense in saying that Dakhni and Rekhta are dialects of Urdu, but other languages like Awadhi, etc. are dialects of Hindi. I am clueless here too. No suggestions.
 * 4. Pidgin and Creole Hindi-based languages of non-natively Hindi(and allied) speaking areas in India and Pakistan. These include Arunachali Hindi and Haflong Hindi and Bambaiyya, Lahori Urdu, Karachi Urdu etc. Simple to deal with them per se, but again, how do you put them- call them pidgin dialects of Hindi or Urdu or Hindustani? It is silly to call some as dialects of Urdu while some as dialects of Hindi. If at all we do this then we'll have to use better terminology. Maquahuitl (talk) 15:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello Maquahuitl. Yes I agree with the merger of Hyderabadi Urdu into Dakhni since the articles deal with the same topic. I would go ahead and contact an administrator to do this. As for merging, Khariboli and Hindustani, I would also agree. However, you might want to get more input on this issue by posting on the talk pages of those articles. If no input is given after some amount of time, I would contact an administrator explaining the reasons for a merger. I hope this helps, AnupamTalk 17:34, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Karadiya Rajputs
Hi everyone, hope you are all enjoying the cricket today. I have removed a speedy tag from the above article but I have no idea on its notability, importance or otherwise. If someone from this WikiProject could take a look and see if a decent article could be made from it, it would be much appreciated. -- Mattinbgn\talk 00:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Uttar Pradesh
Greetings. A new project, WikiProject Uttar Pradesh has been created. If you are interested in contributing, please add you name to the list located here. With regards, AnupamTalk 08:52, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hindustani and allied languages
Another new project, WikiProject Hindustani and allied languages has been created. If you are interested in contributing, please add you name to the list located here. Maquahuitl (talk) 20:00, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Mumbai Police
Hi, I have Deep knowledge about Mumbai Police and I want Add some picture in Mumbai Police article can any boby help me?

Maratha Empire
I want someone to help me with this template on the Maratha Empire: Template:MarathaEmpire. I started creating this template and completely messed it up. -- Rustam  14:54, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * There are two templates - Template:MarathaEmpire and Template:Maratha Empire. I hope it does not create a confusion. - P.K.Niyogi (talk) 11:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Red terror in India!?
Is it accurate to have a redirect from 'Red Terror (India)' to Nandigram violence? Discussion going on at Redirects for discussion/Log/2008 January 9‎. --Soman (talk) 14:19, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Schools in INDIA
I came across List of schools by country and found India page was missing. So I created List of schools in India. Now I need content neatly catagorized by states. I am not sure but 'Category: Education in India' can help a lot in this matter. This is the place I kind of slow down. I can collect lot of content by I don't really know how to create categories. Most cities I monitor had a long list of schools so I had broken the sections into seperate pages. Please suggest how to go forward in the correct way since Im new to wikipedia. Thanks. thevikas (talk) 16:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hindustani navigation box and some attitude
I've created a navigation box on Hindustani(Hindi/Urdu):Hindustani topics. One user Tuncrypt was saying that it is "unwarranted" and "he will get it deleted". I would like to say that I am not a new user but have contributed something for the first time. Before this I used to post on the talk pages of articles but nobody replied ever. Now when I have created something very petty, one guy comes up and says that it is nonsensical and he will have it deleted. This kind of attitude is going to detract new users like myself and discourage us from ever contributing again. You can have a look at his comments on my talk page and my replies on his talk page. Please comment either on this issue or give any views related to the box and how it can be made betterMaquahuitl (talk) 19:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I had a look at the discussion on both pages and I agree that Tuncrypt seems to be going rather hot-headed about it. I personally don't have a problem with the template so long as it is appended only to appropriate articles. I'm afraid I'm ill-equipped to delve into the details of this matter. You may wish to bring this to the attention of an experienced editor/administrator (such as Ganeshk, Bhadani, Dwaipayanc, etc), or alternately at WP:VPP or WP:VPM. Ekantik talk 22:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * As far as I can see, Tuncrypt's arguments are based on original research. There is even a wiki-article on Hindustani, so if the article exists, the concept certain exists. If there are several articles dealing with the same subject, there is no reason why a template cannot be created to connect all of them. Your template appears to do that pretty well so there is no reason why it should be deleted as per Wikipedia policies. This template helps Wikipedia and should not be deleted. However, I would suggest that the template be renamed to something more appropriate. See Category:Language navigational boxes to get an idea of conventions. Ekantik talk 22:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Original research? That's a pretty grave accusation, possibly requiring explanation. But anyway, your saying "There is even a wiki-article on Hindustani, so if the article exists, the concept certain exists" doesn't really mean anything as I did not object to the concept of Hindustani at all, but rather to its use as template header for all topics Hindi and Urdu, and the definitional implications that flow from such a usage. Read my two posts here and here. I mean, I really don't know what more to say. My points seem to me clear and entirely conclusive on this matter. But restating those points, with some further explanation as well:
 * Popular currency of the term. While used throughout the British administration, the term lost ground and become defunct in matters of self-identification basically after the administration's departure, in the wake of the divergent and developmental forces behind Urdu and Hindi. People now identify themselves as speakers of one or the other on census documents, not Hindustani. Wikipedia should not artificially propound a term beyond that of its ground realities.
 * Scholastic currency of the term. Books, reviews, articles, papers, etc. are written about the "Hindi" and "Urdu" languages, not the "Hindustani language". As I've said, the term Hindustani will garner a sentence or two in these articles about Hindi and Urdu, noting it as a colloquial go-between, spoken lingua franca, etc. between the two. In the rare cases of books, etc. being written under the direct topic of Hindustani, they are of older times; again, cf. my first point.
 * The definitional instability of the term. There is a problem of confusion regarding the term's use, with two different senses being accorded to it. The first sense has it as another name of "Khari Boli", which itself is clear in its definition. It is a dialect, a grammatical framework and basis, and Modern Standard Hindi and Urdu are standardized registers of it. If anything, it'd make for a better template than "Hindustani" because of the accuracy/clarity surrounding it (unlike Hindustani, which is what I'm discussing currently in this point #3). But either way, it's still unwarranted because like Hindustani it lacks appropriate popular currency (point #1), lacks scholastic naming currency (#2), and encounters the complications surrounding the term Hindi (to be covered later on in this point #3) which'd be subsumed under it. Anyway, getting back to Hindustani, the second and more contemporary sense accorded to it is that of a shared/colloquial/neutral/spoken vocabulary/go-between/lingua franca/segment between the entities of Hindi and Urdu. The final, previously mentioned irreconcilable obstacle, which I will include under this bullet, is that of the definitional complications relating to the term "Hindi", which of course is subordinated under Hindustani in this template. It has the senses of 1) Modern Standard Hindi (Khari Boli) and 2) broad-based, all-encompassing Hindi (Modern Standard Hindi, Urdu, and non-Khari Boli dialects; Hariyanvi, Kannauji, etc.). That Urdu and (MS) Hindi have classificational primacy over Hindustani is what I've been arguing all along; as for the all-compassing sense of Hindi in tow, it becomes obviously the case.


 * So finally it should be made clear that it's just this template that I'm against, and not at all templates and their organizational qualities in general. I think that templates'd be useful and suitable for this general topic. My proposition is to have separate templates for Hindi and Urdu. They'd correctly, as per definition, converge on links to pages for grammar, phonology, Hindustani, and Khari Boli, and diverge on links to pages for script, literature, and history. Further individual expansions would be Dakkhini for Urdu, and Awadhi, Braj, etc. for Hindi (allowing a unfettered and accurate explication of its aforementioned broader sense). Thus I've already outlined the bases of two prospective templates, presenting their differences, nuances, characteristics.


 * If desired and hopefully quickly understood and agreed upon, this change or compromise could be implemented immediately. It could also wait, considering the poor state of much of what falls under the Hindi and Urdu domain or pages, but whatever. The improvement and development of these pages is certainly within my interest and desire. To my point out my commitment to the general cause of Indo-Aryan language pages, I present my contributions: Gujarati language, Gujarati grammar, Gujarati script, Gujarati phonology, and Hindi-Urdu grammar, on all of which I have created 99-100% of what you see there. I'm especially proud of the latter, Hindi-Urdu, as it was a complete and utter rewrite, vastly improving and completing the page, and raising the number of direct sourcings from 0 to 53 (actually 70, if you count instances). Also, I've initiated a rewrite of Hindi-Urdu phonology, where I've written 90% of what's there, with others helping me with formatting. Lastly, I've opened up a new section on the long inactive Indo-Aryan languages page. So I care, very much so. Tuncrypt (talk) 08:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, this literally took me three hours to write. lolz Tuncrypt (talk) 08:57, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * On a related note, before I hit the sack, could such a template please be made for the Gujarati language? Thanks. Tuncrypt (talk) 09:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You know, when I think about the concluding proposal I eventually reached, it's too bad I didn't just go and edit the Hindustani template into Hindi and Urdu ones in the first place, and saved myself all this back-and-forth. Tuncrypt (talk) 19:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

So just now I just went and made the changes to the template, making it a Hindi one: Template:Hindi_topics (another Urdu one'll have to be created). If you look at it, you'll see that it's quite different from any possible Urdu template that'd be made, as I've noted previously. Hopefully everything I've said is understood and this issue can be concluded, and we can enjoy our templates. Tuncrypt (talk) 19:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I recently made a reply to user:Anupam's post here. Just linking it. Tuncrypt (talk) 20:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

There, three new templates I have fashioned —

Tuncrypt (talk) 20:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have some issues with these three boxes- will post more tomorrow. Good night everyone. Maquahuitl (talk) 21:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

As opposed to what? The Hindustani box you made, which was totally wrong? And why in the world do you say three boxes? The Gujarati box is a Gujarati box, another thing altogether, which I felt like making just now, being a completely different language from Hindi-Urdu-Hindustani. Honestly, do you even know that? Tuncrypt (talk) 21:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Slightly off topic: MediaWiki localisation for languages from India
I am writing to you to promote a special wiki called Betawiki. This wiki facilitates the localisation (l10n) of the MediaWiki interface. You may have sometimes changed messages to use your language in the interface, but if you would log in to for example the Japanese language Wiktionary, or Wikimedia Commons, you would not be able benifit from those efforts. Betawiki also supports the translation of messages for 126 extensions, with 2,174 messages. Translators for over 90 languages contribute their work to MediaWiki this way every month.

If you wish to contribute to better support of your language in MediaWiki, as well as for many MediaWiki extensions, please visit Betawiki, create an account and request translator privileges. You can see the current status of localisation of your language on MediaWiki.org and do not forget to get in touch with others that may already be working on your language on Betawiki.

We currently have a language project that gives incentives up to EUR 200 (~$293) for localising particular languages. 13 languages spoken in India are eligible for the bounties. If you have any further questions, please let me know on my talk page on Betawiki. We will try and assist you as much as possible, for example by importing all messages from a local wiki for you to start with, if you so desire.

You can also find us on the Freenode IRC network in the channel #mediawiki-i18n where we would be happy to help you get started.

Thank you very much for your attention, and I do hope to see some of you on Betawiki soon! Cheers! Siebrand (talk) 23:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC) (Siebrand@Betawiki)

Are these two new articles keepers?
Two new articles reference Hindi sources:
 * Brhmaand Pujan
 * Naresh Sonee Sohum Sutra

They were recently deleted:
 * Articles for deletion/Brhmaand Pujan
 * Articles for deletion/Naresh Sonee

Should they be kept?

The article's author seems new and may need some coaching. Unfortunately, I am totally unfamiliar with Hindi, philosophy or spiritualism. -- A. B. (talk) 00:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Ignore the issue for a while.As such it was both poorly prepared article and case of over-policing by en wikipedians as usual.
 * India has got ageold traditions of people claiming themselves to be godmans and they do get followers out of such followers some follower may turn to wikipedia.If we deside to take note of all Gurus and and Godmans and their individual scriptures we do need indipendant wiki some thing like WikiGuru.And frankly WikiGuru will do better to Wikipedia in popularity.

Mahitgar (talk) 10:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Subhas Chandra Bose
Hi there,

Somebody inserted British Flag next to his birth country, India. I don't agree with this and I am sure everybody will do the same.

There are number of pages on the Wikipedia for number of prominent people, which do not have any such flags, particularly the flags of the countries which occupied/ruled at that time.

Manay Thanks Jagan kommareddy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.213.138 (talk) 14:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have removed the links to flags: Taking a cue from this page. --Bhadani (talk) 19:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If Wikipedia follows this tradition of displaying the flags of country of birth depending on the the-then rulers than probably most of the current Prime Ministers and Presidents of European countries will have the Nazi flags decorating their pages on Wikipedia! --Bhadani (talk) 19:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure that war time occupation of European countries by Nazi Germany falls in the same category as a country and its administration during the colonial era. Aside from the fact that India today is historically and politically different from British India. I dont have a problem with the flag not being shown, but do have a problem with the pages on Bose and INA becoming a battleground for PoV pushing Colonialists and nationalists. Facts are facts and that's the way it should be on an encyclopaedia. I have nearly single handedly build the entire Content on the Indian National Army (see Azad Hind Fauj), and am bored and tired of colonial as well as nationalist half-truths and pseudo-intellectuals pushing to have their long-disproved and now-downright-ridiculed theories in these pages. Do pardon me if I seem a bit overactive in these pages. I assure you it is in the best intentions and interests. rueben_lys (talk · contribs) 21:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * My reply. --Bhadani (talk) 18:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And, by the way, no one should experiment with displaying British Flag at the same place in George Washington's's page as the discussion will last for long, and most probably the British Flag may not be acceptable for which some sort of consensus shall emerge which may not be based on facts! --Bhadani (talk) 18:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The matter is over as far as I am concerned - I got a new friend wiki-way in the process. --Bhadani (talk) 18:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

For future reference, FLAGS gives just a couple of the many good reasons why little flag icons aren't appropriate for birth and death locations in infoboxes. They are confusing, create nationalistic (flag-waving) disputes, and can be inappropriate because they imply nationalistic support, when the birth place is merely a geographical location. I've taken to adding the following hidden comment in infoboxes, just above birth and death location:

You can see how I've added it at Subhas Chandra Bose by clicking on the edit tab and looking at the infobox. These have been effective at preventing the same dispute from happening all over again. ~ priyanath talk 22:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree with Priyanath. Flags should not be used for birth/date years. --Ragib (talk) 07:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

An earlier discussion on this topic also suggests a clear consensus against using flags to indicate places of birth and death (i.e. in addition to Don't overuse flags). Abecedare (talk) 05:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

request for input
I would encourage all readers of this page to join in the discussion at Talk:Caste system among Indian Christians, where there is a heated debate over inclusions of material. Baka man  21:34, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Castes
I've been looking over some of the caste articles (particularly beginning with Nadar (caste)) and there seem to be a huge amount of them - and they are all largely unsourced and POV. Has this project formed any plans for a sweep of these articles at some point? Avruch talk 19:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That’s why I am peeling off Sri Lanka related caste articles separately see Vellalar (Sri Lankan Tamil), Vanniar (Sri Lanka). This is just the beginning, when I have the time I will have a separate set for SL because Indian castes articles are never stable because of the huge amount of interest in projecting a positive and very high credentials. Taprobanus (talk) 18:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is extremely difficult to prune those articles back or delete them. I think a coordinated effort might actually work. Relata refero (talk) 10:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

"Good article" candidate: Economic development in India
I am reviewing Economic development in India as a "Good article" candidate. Can the folk of your Wikiproject clarify a few issues here please? Axl (talk) 09:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Vice-President Bhairo Singh Shekhawat
Some people are asserting that a speech by (then) Vice-President of India Bhairon Singh Shekhawat is not notable to be mentioned in an article about a living person, who was the subject of the speech, on the basis that "Bhairo Singh Shekhawat doesn't have a reputation, because he attends meetings for large numbers of spiritual leaders" Comments? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Really? Is that a direct quote? Or a blatant mischaracterisation of the sort you would do well to avoid in this climate?Relata refero (talk) 20:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the direct quote for those who are interested:

"Either you think this is a notable enough act/endorsement that it goes in the article; in which case I think we owe it to the reader to tell them exactly what else the source of the endorsement supports. The truth is, of course, that it is not notable. As Rumiton says 'he put his reputation on the line...'. Exactly. He doesn't have one, because he attends meetings for large numbers of spiritual leaders and releases their books and opens their offices and praises their foreign exchange earnings and inner peace. So, as I said, if you make the decision to put him in the article, then you are making the decision that his words on Rawat are notable or in any way exceptional."
 * This is in the context of whether, in a large and complex article, adding the fact that Shekhawat attended a meeting and made a speech is relevant. I invite people to consider the fact that Mr. Shekhawat has made speeches at meetings for Chandraswami, Baba Ramdev, Satya Sai Baba, the leader of the Swaminarayan movement, and several dozen others. I therefore said that if it was implied in any way that his attending a meeting for Rawat was an exceptional event, it had better be worded in a way that indicated that it was not. Relata refero (talk) 20:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The question remains. You said what you said, and I am asking editors if a in WP we need to make a distinction between the VP of India, and the VP of the USA as it relates to them attending a public event and making a speech at that event. Please let others comment. Thanks. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see this diff for an examination of the  no doubt unintentionally deceptive falsity of your analogy. Please let others edit these articles. Thank you. Relata refero (talk) 20:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not editing these articles. I am asking for uninvolved editors to assist with disputes and engaging in discussions at talk. Read WP:DR. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sigh*, yes. Perhaps I should have said "avoiding" them. Which you should seriously do. We aren't all examining those articles because we want to catch you out or because we have something against this gentleman, you know. Perhaps you should just step aside for a little while and see how consensus evolves without you. Helping shape consensus is also how we edit. Read WP:CONSENSUS. Relata refero (talk) 20:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What an Indian politician said about a spiritual personage? This could hardly get any more commonplace.  I'm having a hard time believing that this is being discussed, unless we're trying to formulate a guideline blanket-banning such effluvia from BLPs. rudra (talk) 20:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. That is why I am asking here, as I am not familiar with Indian politics. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Could the details of the speech be made more clear. What is the speech about? =Nichalp   «Talk»=  07:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)