Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics/Archive 57

Buddhakahika is back?
This time as User:Lord Senapati. See. Anyone bother right now to look up the diffs? Otherwise, I'll try later today. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  10:40, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is the same person. Revert on sight. I can report to WP:SPI but will need to be careful, per WP:BEANS. A checkuser will be needed because they tend to have several accounts on the go. - Sitush (talk) 10:50, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Historical Vedic religion: Rockin It Loud Lord Senapati .  Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  10:52, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * See Sockpuppet investigations/Buddhakahika. Best not to provide too much evidence. I'm fairly sure the patrolling clerks and admins can spot it but if not then they can email me. - Sitush (talk) 10:57, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, I just created a new SPI too Sockpuppet investigations/Buddhakahika. Sorry if I'm messing up. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  11:02, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Um, I did to. The bot isn't moving them right now it seems. It's crystal clear and I'll delete the new articles shortly as creations by a sock, may wait for CU. I've deleted another one as a recreation. Dougweller (talk) 12:02, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Muslim resistance to Sikh conquests
I noticed this article today. I guess this is a topic forcefully created by bundling together a bunch of skirmishes/wars etc. I am not sure if this is a mainstream history term. But of course I may be wrong. Any opinion?--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:45, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * There is some stuff there that seems just anti-Sikh, not about the subject. I've just warned the editor who created that article for adding material not backed by the source at another, unrelated article. Dougweller (talk) 05:08, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * See Articles for deletion/Muslim resistance to Sikh conquests. Dougweller (talk) 15:26, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Donkeshwer
Dear India experts: This article seems to be about the same place as Donkeshwar, but it has some interesting information that isn't in the mainspace article. There are no references, though. I am reporting this here in case anyone is interested in sourcing this and adding it to the main article. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 13:55, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is the same place. However, I do not see any interesting stuffs present there, other than the story, how government warned citizens for an expected flood incident, and provided compensation following devastation caused by the flood, and the village called, "Doodhkeshwer" three decades ago, now known as, Donkeshwar. I'm not sure, if the story suggests a shift in the location of the village, as such the village was earlier located on the banks of river Godawari, following the flood incident, it is now somewhere else. Anupmehra  - Let's talk!  21:37, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not really clear from the text of the article, and since it isn't sourced, it would be difficult to be sure of adding correct information unless someone can find a news article about it. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 12:51, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I have moved this to Donkeshwer, turned it into a redirect to Donkeshwar, and put appropriate notes on both talk pages. If a reliable source to back up the original content of the former AFC submission can be found, the content should be merged.  A history merge is not practical due to overlapping edit histories.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  19:17, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Anant Mane
Dear India experts: If this person really did direct 60 films, there should be sources available to show this. Should the article be kept and improved, or deleted as a stale draft? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 17:30, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne Delong, There are 3 sources in National Film Award for Best Feature Film in Marathi saying that he directed 3 films which won the award, which makes him notable. Here are some more references:, , .-- Redtigerxyz Talk 18:04, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Redtigerxyz. I have added those to the article and postponed its deletion for six months to give time to work on it.  Feel free to  improve it if you care to.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 18:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Harishchandra or Harischandra Range?
Hi! While trying to de-orphan Harischandra Range, I found out that there are two (stub) articles on the same subject. (Harishchandra Range is the other.) Obviously, a merge is needed. But which is the right spelling? Googling either or both names does not provide any satisfactory answers, and I am otherwise clueless. Help? Thanks! - Gorthian (talk) 05:23, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Bharath Gyan
Please evaluate this submission at Articles for creation, I don't know if it is notable or if the sources are acceptable. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:56, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Bhoj Raj or Bhojraj Singh?
The article is under the former title but only uses Bhojraj Singh in the actual article. Dougweller (talk) 12:05, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Ratan Tata
On the Ratan Tata page, some Wikipedians are attempting to add GBE, a British post nominal, in Tata's case an honorific awarded to an Indian citizen, to his name. There is also another page, a facebook-like page of a lesser known guy, Chandrika Prasad Srivastava, which has a fruit salad trailing him, including IAS, and ICS (which he was not); see here. The Indian Home Ministry has interpreted Article 18.1 of the Constitution of India (which says, "18. (1) No title, not being a military or academic distinction, shall be conferred by the State.") to imply that Indian awards cannot be used as pre- or post nominals. (See here, where the Home Ministry says, "In terms of Article 18 (1) of the Constitution, the (Bharat Ratna) award cannot be used as a prefix or suffix to the recipient's name."). However, Article 18.2 of the Constitution of India says, "(2) No citizen of India shall accept any title from any foreign State." (See here page 8). We have already seen the bogus Maharaja and Nawab titles being used on Indian biography pages, which too are unconstitutional. These however are new ones as far as I am aware. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  23:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Tata was recently awarded the honorary GBE by Queen Elizabeth II. In 2009, he was awarded an honorary KBE (a lesser award), but which British nationals (for whom it is not "honorary") can use as a post-nominal.  There is no precedent of using this for Tata in other encyclopedias.  His Encyclopaedia Britannica page, last updated 2013, says simply, "Ratan Tata, in full Ratan Naval Tata   (born December 28, 1937, Bombay [now Mumbai], India), Indian businessman who became chairman (1991–2012) of the Tata Group, a Mumbai-based conglomerate."  Had there been a precedent, they would have said, "Ratan Tata KBE etc."  Note: it is very different for knighthoods and other titles awarded before 1947, when India was a part of the British Empire.  See, for example, CV Raman.  Britannica too has him listed as, Sir Chandrasekhara Venkata Raman.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  23:49, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * PPS For the Padma awards (Padma Vibhushan, Padma Bhushan, Padma Shree), the Indian Home ministry says, "The award does not amount to a title and cannot be used as a suffix or prefix to the award winner’s name on letterheads, invitation cards, posters, books etc. In the case of any misuse, the defaulter will forfeit the award." (See here.) As a matter of common sense, if the Government of India doesn't allow Indian awards, even the highest, to be used as post nominals, it is hardly likely they would allow postnominals, from, of all places, Britain, this, after a 60-plus year long anti-colonial struggle and after having constituted itself a republic with egalitarian ideals.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  00:14, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing you just forgot to do the polite thing what with neglecting to inform the other editors you opened this discussion or just simply adding a link to this discussion to the article's talk page? Anyways, I'm reminded of the "is Edward Snowden a whistleblower?" discussions. People opposed to calling him a whistleblower cited the definition specified by the U.S. Senate which Snowden didn't meet. It seems a similar response is merited here: Why should Wikipedia care about what governments do and do not allow? In the case of Srivastava, other sources use the title and he himself recognizes the title . -- Neil N   talk to me  00:41, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Many, many, more sources call Saif Ali Khan, the "Nawab of Pataudi" or "the titular Nawab of Pataudi," but he is neither, because all titles and privileges of royalty were abolished by an amendment to the Constitution of India in 1971. Wikipedia, consequently, can't call him Nawab.  Same for Jyotiraditya Madhavrao Scindia, his wife, where too people have attempted to add the bogus titles.  The Constitution of India is paramount in what applies to Indian citizens.  We can't make up garbage.  As for the International Maritime Organization link you provided, they also call Srivastava, a "Dr."  All he had was a few honorary doctorates (never studied after his LLB in the 1940s.)  Are we going to change Wikipedia rules about that too?  As for your other link, where does it say he used the post-nominal himself?  I don't have any issues with mentioning that he received an honorary knighthood from the queen, only to the use of the post-nominal, KCMG, after his name (or in the case of Tata, GBE after his name). Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  00:51, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * As for your remark about the polite thing, you left a retort on the Talk:Ratan Tata page, "Take it where you must." The verb "must" in that expression has the meaning, "are compelled to" (See Webster's Unabridged)  When I do just that, you turn around an accuse me of impoliteness.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  01:29, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * "...neglecting to inform the other editors you opened this discussion..." By all means, go to another forum, but common courtesy suggests when you actually open a discussion somewhere else, you should add a note in the original discussion. -- Neil N  talk to me  01:36, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * True, I did make a booboo. Apologies.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  07:10, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * A related link . -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 08:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I've removed the post-nominals from the Ratan Tata article. The lack of recognition for foreign honours should apply to the article supporting the Indian view of a page on an Indian citizen resident in India. So long as the subject remains resident in India the post-noms are inappropiate in view of S(18) of the Indian Consitution. Outside of India the subject remains entitled to style himself as.

--Karl Stephens ( talk &#124; contribs ) 13:46, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Macaulayism
Could somebody confirm the notability of the Macaulayism article? The sourcing is very iffy (such as Rajiv Malhotra) and it was created by a sockpuppet of a banned user.—indopug (talk) 06:24, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Just noticed that it's been kept after an AfD.—indopug (talk) 06:29, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Edit war at Arjuna
I haven't looked closely at what's going on here (I'll try to, shortly), but it looks as though the page needs protecting. Imc (talk) 17:52, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Informal request for WT:INDIA feedback on the lead sentence of notable India-born people living abroad.
I recently watched a debate between Amartya Sen and Jagdish Bhagwati, two notable Indian economists working in the US. The debate was about Narendra Modi, the BJP candidate for prime minister in India.

The lives and career trajectories of the two economists are very similar. Both are around 80 years of age, both did their undergraduate work in India, went to the UK for a second BA, subsequently received their PhDs (one in the UK, the other in the US). Both then taught at the Delhi School of Economics during the 60s and attained early notability while there. They then left India, and have taught and worked abroad since, i.e. in the last 40 plus years, and achieved their major notability while abroad. The only difference is that Sen has retained his Indian nationality, working abroad on an immigrant visa (a green card in the US), whereas Bhagwati has become a naturalized American. In the debate, Sen was heard saying, "Do I want a Prime Minister, as an Indian citizen, who has that kind of record (i.e. Modi's)? No, I wouldn't." (See here (10:15)) And Bhagwati was heard saying, "I wouldn't vote for Narendra Modi" (2:05). Both economists, now past their academic prime, are being less than transparent. In the case of Sen, he is using his nominal Indian citizenship (he has not lived in India in over 40 years) to somehow legitimize his view. In the case of Bhagwati, the use of "wouldn't," strictly speaking, absolves him of an outright lie, but the plain fact is that he can't vote in India; he's not an Indian citizen any more.

I have since looked at pages of other notable Indians living abroad. There are various degrees vagueness or subterfuge being employed in the lead sentences about their nationality. Some, such as Indra Nooyi, were being described as "Indian-American." But that term is usually used for the so-called "ethnic group" of Americans (i.e. born and raised) but of Indian origin, and most often applied to people such as Sanjay Gupta, Kal Penn, Bobby Jindal, or Nikki Haley.

Others were being described "American." Thus Satya Nadella, who is 46 years old, and became a naturalized American in his late 30s, was being described as an "American business executive, etc." I started a discussion on Talk:Satya Nadella, but soon realized that there is a more general lack of clarity about the nationality or nationalities which are relevant to a person's notability for a host of international people, but especially for India-born people, since a large number of them were born and raised in India and left after they finished college or even after receiving a masters, i.e. after the age of consent (21). This is a matter that ultimately needs to be taken up at MOS:Biography, but if you examine the underlying discussion at Talk:MOS Biography, there is no real consensus there either, the discussion mainly an argument between two people of opposite views. So, before reopening the issue at MOS, I thought I might bounce it off people here first. I am myself toying with two alternatives:


 * 1) For people such as Jagdish Bhagwati (or [ Satya Nadella], Meghnad Desai, Baron Desai, Indra Nooyi], CR Rao, etc.), who have changed their citizenship, to say, "X is an India(n)-born, naturalized American/British/etc ...."
 * 2) For people such as Sen (see also Pranab Bardhan, T. N. Srinivasan), who have retained their (nominal) Indian citizenship, but lived in a foreign country: "X is an Indian economist/etc who has taught and worked in the US/UK since 1972/1979/etc."

I believe "naturalized" is important in 1., as it distinguished these people (off the bat) from people such as Kipling, Thackeray, Jim Corbett (hunter), etc who were British/etc. but born in India. I would like to hear what others think. I believe such clarity makes Wikipedia lead sentences—which appear in Google searches—immune from being used or abused for political- and other non-encyclopedic purposes. Best regards, Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  06:55, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Uhh... please take a look at this; Actually I have only read the first para :\    J i m Carter  ( talk ) 06:49, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Book covers
Someone has added a bunch of book covers here Nrisingha_Prasad_Bhaduri, (license is not clear, that's a different thing), I am asking for second opinion, does it look like, book showcase advert? Tito ☸ Dutta 14:16, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 *  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 14:57, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Ramanagaram / Ramanagara / Ramanagar
Views sought please on the most appropriate name for this town near Bangalore, at Talk:Ramanagar,_Karnataka. Thank you. Imc (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ramanagar looks appropriate as per Wikipedia Common Name policy. Pdheg Talk 15:12, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * A quick google search shows that Ramanagara is the most commonly used name on English speaking sites. Links are posted below:


 * https://www.google.com/#q=Ramanagar+-ramanagara+-Ramanagaram+-wikipedia (202,000)
 * https://www.google.com/#q=Ramanagara+-Ramanagar+-Ramanagaram+-wikipedia (2,920,000)
 * https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=DvdbU-CBMaGC8QfppIHIDg#q=Ramanagaram+-ramanagar+-ramanagara+-wikipedia (2,600,000) Gsingh (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I wonder how users Imc, Gsingh and Mayasandra are always able to get on discussion boards supporting the same view. Pdheg Talk 22:10, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it's because we're following WP policy. Read up on WP:COMMONNAME, it will solve a lot of your problems. Gsingh (talk) 03:32, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 'Ramanagara' is the most commonly used name. Perhaps we can write 'also called Ramanagaram' in the lead.Jugaari cross (talk) 15:38, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The town is in a Kannada speaking region, and so Ramanagara is the most common form. Towns with the same name in North India would be Ramnagar. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:25, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Kannada speaking region does not use this naming pattern uniformly. Karnataka state has diversity. Districts that were part of old Mysore/Madras Presidency area (including Bangalore) use "nagara" and "pura" in place of "nagar" and "pur" respectively. The Kannada speaking regions of Bombay Presidency and Hyderabad state, which were later merged to form Karnataka, use the pattern followed by the rest of India. We will be mistaken if we try to enforce the old Mysore pattern on the other parts of Karnataka saying that our pattern is the standard for Karnataka state. |*| Anand.Hegde |*|Talk to me 18:14, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Anand, you are correct in pointing out an overgeneralization that I was making; however, the town in question is in the Mysore region, it is approximately 100 km away from Mysore along the highway to Bangalore. Therefore, the convention I mentioned will apply. Also, it is worth pointing out that my claim still broadly holds; it is incorrect in North Karnataka, simply because there is a very significant non-Kannada presence there. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:05, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Ramanagaram / Ramanagara / Ramanagar
Views sought please on the most appropriate name for this town near Bangalore, at Talk:Ramanagar,_Karnataka. Thank you. Imc (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ramanagar looks appropriate as per Wikipedia Common Name policy. Pdheg Talk 15:12, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * A quick google search shows that Ramanagara is the most commonly used name on English speaking sites. Links are posted below:


 * https://www.google.com/#q=Ramanagar+-ramanagara+-Ramanagaram+-wikipedia (202,000)
 * https://www.google.com/#q=Ramanagara+-Ramanagar+-Ramanagaram+-wikipedia (2,920,000)
 * https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=DvdbU-CBMaGC8QfppIHIDg#q=Ramanagaram+-ramanagar+-ramanagara+-wikipedia (2,600,000) Gsingh (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I wonder how users Imc, Gsingh and Mayasandra are always able to get on discussion boards supporting the same view. Pdheg Talk 22:10, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it's because we're following WP policy. Read up on WP:COMMONNAME, it will solve a lot of your problems. Gsingh (talk) 03:32, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 'Ramanagara' is the most commonly used name. Perhaps we can write 'also called Ramanagaram' in the lead.Jugaari cross (talk) 15:38, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The town is in a Kannada speaking region, and so Ramanagara is the most common form. Towns with the same name in North India would be Ramnagar. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:25, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Kannada speaking region does not use this naming pattern uniformly. Karnataka state has diversity. Districts that were part of old Mysore/Madras Presidency area (including Bangalore) use "nagara" and "pura" in place of "nagar" and "pur" respectively. The Kannada speaking regions of Bombay Presidency and Hyderabad state, which were later merged to form Karnataka, use the pattern followed by the rest of India. We will be mistaken if we try to enforce the old Mysore pattern on the other parts of Karnataka saying that our pattern is the standard for Karnataka state. |*| Anand.Hegde |*|Talk to me 18:14, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Anand, you are correct in pointing out an overgeneralization that I was making; however, the town in question is in the Mysore region, it is approximately 100 km away from Mysore along the highway to Bangalore. Therefore, the convention I mentioned will apply. Also, it is worth pointing out that my claim still broadly holds; it is incorrect in North Karnataka, simply because there is a very significant non-Kannada presence there. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:05, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

RM: List of Indian federal legislation
There is a discussion going on at Talk:List_of_Indian_federal_legislation to split and move the page to a different name. All comments will be appreciated. Amartyabag  TALK2ME  16:47, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Clarification on WP:INDICSCRIPT
There has been an editing spree by one editor removing Kannada names from a number of mainly geographic articles on the basis of this consensus. So I thought I’d check out this RfC again. In this case, the editor has a history of trying to replace place name spellings in Karnataka with their Hindi equivalents, so other motives than sticking to consensus / general practice are possible.

The summary of WP:INDICSCRIPT is quite clear, don’t use indic scripts in the lead sentence only. But the discussion starts off suggesting no Indic scripts for biographic articles, then develops to discussing to including all India related articles. It then has votes on multiple subjects and the vote on place names has a consensus that the state language should be retained for these; but this may have been overridden by another consensus that the general discussion has agreed that there should be no indic scripts in all articles. Or has it? It doesn’t help that the original discussion was started here on this page and concluded in this discussion (possibly). Due to archiving many of the links no longer work.

Other India or Indic language specific policies, such as WP:MOSIN, WP:NCIN imply or suggest that these names should be included for various topics including places, historic and religious subjects, and gives a style guide on including them.

I would like to suggest some further clarification of this subject. The previous discussion started with biographic articles, then widened, which is not a satisfactory way of conducting a wide ranging discussion (I looked at it at the start and decided I could ignore it because of the subject, something I regret now). So does it need revisiting? Clarify the scope – what about place names (include the state language), religious subjects, et.c. And clarify that if the name is already in the lead in an uncontroversial situation, it should not be removed – move it elsewhere, replace it with IPA, but do not remove what normally is useful information. Imc (talk) 08:17, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe that local names with their respective languages should be included on geographical page info boxes, as is done for all other cities of countries whose first language is not English, (Beijing, Lahore, Kabul, Cairo, Islamabad). The user in question in systematically removing valuable information by removing all transliterations completely, as can be seen in the edit history. I believe if it should be removed from the lead it at least should be transferred to the info boxes before doing so. Is there anyway to revert the changes so we can at least copy them in? Gsingh (talk) 20:22, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I think all this user's edits need to be reverted individually. Let him move the stuff to later in the article or replace with IPA, et.c. Imc (talk) 07:13, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I see he has been going on with his activities, despite the messages on his talk page. Imc (talk) 07:17, 12 May 2014 (UTC)


 * You are mixing two separate activities here. Removing INDICSCRIPT is one activity and mentioning IPA is the other. Both these activities need not happen in tandem. You and other editors can join hands in completing the second part. i.e. mentioning IPA for these places. |*| Anand.Hegde |*|Talk to me 18:45, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Removing indic scripts is not sanctioned for geographic articles, not in any reading of the discussion I see, and your reply evades that issue. Imc (talk) 19:21, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

I believe that the consensus was to avoid indic scripts in the lead but that it was ok to use them in infoboxes. I see that Imc has dropped a note on the user's talk page, hopefully that should settle things. --regentspark (comment) 20:40, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes he seems to have stopped doing it, but will he correct his previous destruction? Imc (talk) 20:01, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Imc, I will put back INDICSCRIPTS in the Infobox. My understanding is that we are still going to remove these scripts from the lead. Start feeling better and do not call it destruction anymore. |*| Anand.Hegde |*|Talk to me 20:27, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 14/05
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Matsya Narayana Temple, Bangalore. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 00:22, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For India At Wikimania 2014
Are you looking to recruit more contributors to your project? We are offering to design and print physical paper leaflets to be distributed at Wikimania 2014 for all projects that apply. For more information, click the link below. Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 14:38, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Purushottam vs Purosottum
Hi, I have a query about an Indian scientists name at Talk:Shankar Purushottam Agharkar. Thanks, John Vandenberg (chat) 10:24, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * John Vandenberg, Purushottam has been used in all the 3 sources in the article and hence it should be considered the correct one.--Skr15081997 (talk) 10:47, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * , is there any chance there is another person with similar name, year of birth and death? John Vandenberg (chat) 12:55, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * , if the date of birth and death matches then he should be considered the same person.--Skr15081997 (talk) 12:59, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ptwp only has years, not dates, so I was hoping someone might be able to say the name difference was a common transliteration issue, and not a different word in the original language. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:09, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * , I am sure it's a transliteration issue; the person is the same.--Skr15081997 (talk) 13:16, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * There are no absolute right and wrong ways to transliterate from Indic scripts. For me this is more a difference between English and Portuguese spelling, just as Aisha in English becomes Aïcha in French. Purushottam works fine when writing in English. --Soman (talk) 13:17, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have moved the pt.wp page and sent a correction to Harvard University Herbaria, the source of the name: John Vandenberg (chat) 13:27, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * HUH has reviewed this and updated their record also. Well done folks. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:50, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

want to write an article on VIN RANA known as NAKULA in star plus's mahabharat
sir/mam can i write an article on VIN RANA ,though he is just one show old.but have done lots of TV commercials and modelling assignments.be it in renownd magazines or print advertisement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rashmi11 08 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 17 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Depends on his notability, which is determined to some extent by how many reliable references there are to him. As a rule, appearing in TV commercials and routine modelling would not indicate notability. Imc (talk) 17:31, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Circular shortcut
Per wp:Manual of Style, I removed a circular shortcut to Shortcut: Wikipedia:INDICSCRIPT from the Indic scripts in lead subsection of the page., which comes right back (through redirect) to the origin point (page and section) from the Indic scripts in lead subsection of the page. Please do not add that back, as there is absolutely no reason to do so. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 15:52, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Am I missing something here? WP:Shortcut says this is exactly allowed, isn't this the usual way we do it? If not, then how else do we display a shortcut like "INDICSCRIPTS" here? How is a new user supposed to be aware of this particular shortcut (redirect)....if it's removed? For example, can we also remove the mention of the shortcut WP:DGF from the main page Assume good faith?
 * Sorry, but I couldn't find anything besides Circular redirect, which I think you're referring to. This concerns only regular links within articles and not shortcuts like this. Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 16:23, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It can be used elsewhere, but not here. In this particular instance, the referenced shortcut appears at WikiProject India in the subsection entitled Indic scripts in lead.  The shortcut points to INDICSCRIPT.  "Wikipedia:INDICSCRIPT" is not an article with additional content, but a redirect page—which points to Wikipedia:WikiProject India, subsection Indic scripts in lead.  In other words, it points right back to where the user originally clicked on it (circular).  These types of links often appear after a redirect has been made and not properly followed-up on.  Circular links are not only not needed, they are actively removed as confusing to the average reader (who generally thinks it's not working after they click on it, as the page reloads the same page and section they are already at).  Hope that offers some clarity.  Regards,  GenQuest  "Talk to Me" 16:45, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, ok, I get why we need to be against circular redirects but I still don't see how it applies here. I could say exactly the same for WP:DGF on the main page Assume good faith: "is not an article with additional content, but a redirect page—which points to Wikipedia:Assume Good Faith, subsection 'Demonstrate good faith'...". So tell me, why here and not there? Can we say that on the AGF page, an invalid circular redirect exists for DGF? Shortcuts can be made for specific Wikiproject topics like this as well--not only for policy or guideline pages. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Further research show these are now endemic on many project pages, so I have self-reverted—who am I to go against a community developed convention? They appear to exist for the sole purpose of being copied from the page onto other talk pages or sub-pages of Project pages.  I apologize for the original removals.  I will make the necessary adjustment(s) to the Manual of Style guidelines so misunderstandings of this sort will not cause future confusion.  Thanks and my regards,  GenQuest  "Talk to Me" 18:27, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright, you too. Good day, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The bit you want is wp:SHORTCUT. Ironic, isn't it? I just added R from shortcut as required. LeadSongDog come howl!  21:11, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Arjuna - how many socks do you think? SPI?
See - do you think an SPI is warranted? I'm tempted to roll it back to - not sure what, and protect. Dougweller (talk) 14:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)


 * It seems to have settled down at the moment so perhaps leave it to see if it flares up again? The warring parties have both quoted valid references, which may take much reading through to make a judgement on, and probably don't contradict each other significantly. There's too much trivia in the article and it badly needs a cleanup. I'd do it but would rather do it with some confidence it wasn't trashed again shortly after. Imc (talk) 17:35, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I can probably help with that. Dougweller (talk) 13:38, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 19/05
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/MEMU Shed, Kollam. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:47, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Request: map of Indian states that includes Telangana


Does anybody know of a map of Indian states that includes Telangana? I'll need something similar to the one on the right for List of current Indian chief ministers.—indopug (talk) 06:20, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Does this work out? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 06:38, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks but sadly no. It's a little too complicated, having latitudes/longitudes and the Telangana districts. These will get in the way when the map is recoloured every few months.—indopug (talk) 07:31, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I never understood svgs and maps and how they all work and how they have latitudes and longitudes in them and whatnots. Also, these two maps are on different projection planes and hence can't be copied directly from one to another. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 09:17, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I've just added an outline of Telengana (see Commons), in SVG format, if you are able to work with that. Creating a map of all states will take more time. Imc (talk) 18:25, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Vishnu/Shiva articles
Quite a bit of argument over these articles, and I blocked one editor for legal threats. Can anyone advise? Dougweller (talk) 13:40, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Where are the arguments? There is nothing happening on the talk page of either of those articles.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  15:20, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the problem, no discussion, just edit wars. Dougweller (talk) 19:08, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The philosophy is that blocking is not a punishment, but a remedy. I feel that your actions are appropriate in this case. A user made multiple legal threats and you blocked them, and if they themselves said that they would quit with the legal threats then I expect that you would unblock them.
 * The users are not talking on article talk pages, which is again a problem. Blocking is not a punishment, but a remedy to have them slow down and talk things through.
 * The block seems right. My only further advice would be to be quick to unblock anyone who wants a second chance and who agrees to talk on the talk page.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  19:17, 19 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. The block was actually required. But I was really thinking as much of the edit warring that didn't involved the blocked editor. Dougweller (talk) 19:47, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Rishi
Could someone take a look there? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  18:35, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Hasdeo Area
Dear India experts: Here's another of those abandoned Afc submissions. Is this about an actual place name? Should this be kept instead of being deleted as a stale draft? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 20:32, 16 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Indeed, Hasdeo is a place in Chhattisgarh. Also an an administrative area for South Eastern Coalfields and houses its Chief General Manager's (CGM) office. Except the first 4-5 lines (including subheading), rest of the texts may be cut-and-pasted at South Eastern Coalfields. The place is prominent only due to the presence of coalfields in and around. --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support ) 18:48, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jacob School of Biotechnology and Bioengineering
Dear India experts: This old AfC submission is about a school which is part of a college. The college itself is notable, but perhaps someone who is familiar with educational institutions in India will be able to tell if this section of the college is independently notable. If not, the page will be deleted as a stale draft. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 22:41, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Almost every major universities, be it state- or private-funded, has a level-2 administration of such schools. For example, School of Life Sciences will have departments or courses of Plant Science, Animal Science, Biotechnology, Biochemistry, etc.,School of Chemical Sciences will Chemistry and its allied departments/courses. Its like clubbing of similar courses and departments. Some more: Faculties, Schools & Departments of Bharathidasan University; Schools and Departments of Bharathiar University; Anna University departments and many such Indian Universities and higher institutions like this. Hence it is not notable to have stand alone article. Either the concerned AfC may be deleted or redirected to its parent institution, SHIATS. --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support ) 19:08, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, βα£α. I've deleted the draft. I found that there is already a redirect, and it in fact has a previous article attempt in its revision history. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 19:33, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Temple in need of cleanup
Padutirupathi has no independent sources and a vast amount of unreferenced text - someone might like to have a look at it. Pam D  22:10, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

21st May Traffic Report
Please have a look at how the profile of Narendra Modi has been described at the Traffic Report. Amartyabag  TALK2ME  06:01, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Fiza Ibn-e-Faizi
There is a new article for Urdu poet and writer Fiza Ibn-e-Faizi, and there is quite a bit of confusion about the spelling of his name. If you have a chance to provide input, the question about the name is posted at Talk:Fiza Ibn-e-Faizi. The more I research the more confused I'm getting. Your insight would be very helpful! Thanks!-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 19:05, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

GA article being reassessed: Ahmedabad
Ahmedabad was reviewed and listed as a Good Article in June 2012. It has been tagged with sourcing concerns since Dec 2013. I have done a GAR, and I feel that the article doesn't meet current GA criteria. The main contributors have been notified, though are unavailable or not able to do the work at the moment so there has been no progress. Following the guidelines at Good article reassessment, interested WikiProjects are being contacted as editing assistance may be needed to prevent the article being delisted. See Talk:Ahmedabad/GA2 for more details. If no progress is made, and nobody expresses an interest in working on the article, it is likely to be delisted after seven days have passed.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  16:15, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/KNN - Knowledge and News Network
Dear India experts: This old draft was never submitted to be added to the encyclopedia. Is this a notable news organization, and should the page be kept? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 02:58, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Dear, article about " Knowledge & News Network " was created at AfC and at mainspace simultaneously by an IP 122.160.73.98 and by respectively on same day, the 16th October 2013. Later , made considerable contributions to the article at mainspace, which i supposed to believe the user may have conflict of interest because of this website. The IP and these two users contributed only to " Knowledge & News Network ". Hence the draft at AfC may be deleted. --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support ) 12:52, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking into this. It's gone now. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 13:10, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Smiley.svg Muchas gracias --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support ) 20:53, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Indian women in war category
Hi. I've been trying to improve the articles of the women in war category, and I've been focusing primarily on increasing visibility for women of color. I've noticed that Category:Indian women in war contains a lot of poorly-written articles that are in serious need of improvement, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to offer help or at least point me in the direction of English-language sources I could use to work on them. Also, I'd really like to add pictures but I'm having a hard time finding portraits of these women. I'm presuming that public domain portraits exist as most of the individuals in the category lived prior to the 20th century and were royalty, but I cannot locate them. Does anyone know of a website that contains public domain artwork of these women? Thank you very much. Asarelah (talk) 15:22, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The article Ram Pyari Gurjar really needs improvement. The only source I can find about her life, is the book The royal Gurjars: their contribution to India, and I can't access it from the Internet. If anyone has that book or other reliable sources about her life and could improve the article (at least to the point of including dates, a better sense of historical context, and inline citations) it would really be great. Asarelah (talk) 15:57, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Which Prime Minister
Is the 15th PM designation for Modi correct? Looking at List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_India, he could be either the 16th or the 14th. If we go by terms (Elections column), then he is the 16th PM. If we go by people, he is actually the 14th (Vajpayee is counted twice in that list). I've fixed both but figure this is important enough to need review. --regentspark (comment) 15:41, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * News have goofed up on this point too. Am reading and listening them call Modi as both 14th and 15th PM; but never 16th. How did you come up with 16? Am of the opinion that Modi is the 14th PM of India. Each person is counted only once. So even if ABV has been PM more than once, he can't be described as the nth and mth PM of India. That would be stupid. Also, ABV was three times PM and not twice; just like how Nehru was four times and not just once. Also, acting PM Gulzarilal Nanda is not to be counted. The article List of Prime Ministers of India until few days called MMS as the 13th PM. Suddenly people have started messing up the numbers counting in Nanda and making Modi the 15th. It would be interesting to see what the official sources have used. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 17:29, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Business Standard, Daily Bhaskar calls him 14th, HT and Times, DD News (official broadcaster; as good as Govt source) so does the Time, Indian Express, CNN-IBN, Yahoo, NDTV call him 15th. Counting Vajpayee twice brings the count to 15; whenever a PM has continuous terms he is counted only once so ABV is counted twice (example; http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/621705/Atal-Bihari-Vajpayee); not thrice. PMO site does not number the PMs. We need to correct List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_India. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 18:38, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I got 16th from the column titled "Election" which, on closer scrutiny, is really just the Lok Sabha number so that's not correct anyway. If we count the people who have become PM, then he is the 14th if Nanda is excluded and 15th if Nanda is included. It is unclear whether Nanda should be included in the list or not. My recollection is that, on the incapacitation of the PM, the President can invite someone from the ruling party to become an acting PM until such time as the party elects a new one. Whether this person is an "Acting PM" or a "PM" is unclear. This definitely needs more research.--regentspark (comment) 18:45, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * 14th Prime Minister, 16th Prime Minister tenure. Tito ☸ Dutta 18:53, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * PMO site: Manmohan is 14th.  Gujral is 12th. So ABV is counted twice.  Redtigerxyz  Talk 19:02, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, then we should go by that and make Narendra Modi the 15th. It does make sense because an acting PM is still a PM with all the responsibilities that go with the office. --regentspark (comment) 21:02, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Redtigerxyz If ABV should be counted twice then Indira Gandhi should also be counted twice, she was not a PM from 1977 to 1980so she would be 3rd and 6th PM (If we exclude Nanda) and that would make Modi 16th PM. May be they started to count from zero  -sarvajna (talk) 02:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should count Congress PMs twice but exclude non-Congress PM. That's more logical than starting from zero. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:23, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

I've done quite a bit of work on the PMs list (as well as nearly all the CMs' lists), and I oppose counting Nanda as the second PM and Modi as the 15th. The fact is there is a lot of disagreement and contradiction among sources. Yes you can find Manmohan being called the 14th and now Modi the 15th PMs, but all the sources routinely refer to Shastri as the second. (Even among government sources, ) Given this inconsistency I believe we can exercise our discretion. And not counting an Acting PM makes more sense than counting him; apart from giving undue importance to placeholders, it's also the logic that is used to number the Presidents of India. As for prime ministers who served discontinuous terms (Indira and Vajpayee), they're rarely counted twice.

TL;DR: List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_India is spot on, and other articles must be made consistent with it.—indopug (talk) 03:05, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Here is a succinct Outlook blog on the matter.—indopug (talk) 03:36, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

'''List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_India did not mention Nanda as a prime minister (corrected now) but in reality he was sworn in as the prime minister twice. 1 former prime ministers PMO 2 personal profile PMOPMO official citations. Please don't make a mockery of this. Counting Nanda we have 15 prime ministers( all counted once ). Admins should take note of this.''' jthomas91 05:33, 27 May 2014 (UTC) aze0098 (talk)

We must count Nanda as a PM in the list List of Prime Ministers of India. Even current PM's website has mentioned NANDA as a prime minister. So if we include Nanda the list will be like this. 1.Nehru 2.Nanda 3.Sasthri 4.I Gandhi 5.Desai 6.C.Singh 7.R.Gandhi 8.VP Singh 9.Chandrasekhar 10.Rao 11.Vajpayee 12.Gouda 13.Gujral 14.Manmohan 15.Modi. check out http://pmindia.nic.in/pastpm.php for further details. what i conclude is Modi is 15th PM. -user talk:kappatD 08:40 AM, 28 MAY 2014 — Preceding undated comment added 03:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Support Narendra Modi as 15th PM of India. The PMO has confirmed Narendra Modi as the 15th Prime Minister-Modi is 15th PM-PMO. Manmohan Singh is also given as the 14th Prime Minister-PMO- Manmohan Singh, the rest is history. Based on the number of people who were sworn in as Prime Ministers we have 15 in all including Nanda. What's the point of mentioning Nanda in List of Prime Ministers of India but not numbering him. Be practical people and fix this.—jthomas91 (talk) 11:43, 28 May 2014 (UTC)


 * jthomas91 and user:kappatD, even the PMO is inconsistent on the matter. I. K. Gujral is given as the 12th PM of India, which is possibly only if they didn't count Nanda as a full-time PM.
 * Further, making Nanda the 2nd PM, would mean that Lal Bahadur Shastri, the great man who succeeded Nehru, would be the "third Prime Minister of India". Have you ever seen him described in this way? Is it, as you say, "practical" to describe a man who succeeded the first PM as the third PM?!
 * Lastly, you say "What's the point of mentioning Nanda ... but not numbering him"; I would like to point you to List of Presidents of India, where several acting Presidents are not numbered and there is no confusion over the matter.—indopug (talk) 12:06, 28 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Modi is the 14th person who served as PM, and Nanda can't be counted as a regular PM because he just acted in that capacity on two different occasions. There're countless lists of officeholders on WP, and there's not a single list where acting officeholders are counted as regular ones. Nanda can't be the 2nd PM, it was Shastri. As for the numbering of Nanda, I can support Indopug's idea to use example from List of Presidents of India - there were several acting Presidents, and they are not numbered in any way. In the end, I can support any compromise on numbering, etc, but not the removal of Nanda from the list and the removal of numbering altogether. --Sundostund (talk) 12:47, 28 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Confusion is only because some of us seem to be counting Gulzari Lal Nanda as the second PM as he was officially the Acting PM before and after Lal Bahadur Shastri. He was interim Prime Minister on two occasions - after the sudden demise of Pt. Nehru (from may 27, 1964 to June 9, 1964), for 14 days, and again after the sudden demise of Lal Bahadur Shastri (from January 11 to 24, 1966), again for a period of 14 days. Lal bahadur shastri is regarded as 2nd PM of india. Not counting Mr Nanda, who was after all only the acting prime minister, there have been 13 other PMs, and thus Mr Modi is the 14th.

Dr meetsingh Talk  15:24, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Jawaharlal Nehru: 15 August 1947 to 27 May 1964---> (Gulzarilal Nanda: 27 May 1964 to 9 June 1964)
 * 2) Lal Bahadur Shastri: 9 June 1964 to 11 January 1966---> (Gulzarilal Nanda 11 January 1966 to 24 January 1966)
 * 3) Indira Gandhi: 24 January 1966 to 24 March 1977
 * 4) Morarji Desai: 24 March 1977 to 28 July 1979
 * 5) Charan Singh: 28 July 1979 to 14 January 1980--->(Indira Gandhi: 14 January 1980 to 31 October 1984)
 * 6) Rajiv Gandhi: 31 October 1984 to 2 December 1989
 * 7) V.P. Singh: 2 December 1989
 * 8) Chandra Shekhar: 10 November 1990 to 21 June 1991
 * 9) P.V. Narasimha Rao: 21 June 1991 to 16 May 1996
 * 10) Atal Bihari Vajpayee: 16 May 1996 to 1 June 1996
 * 11) H.D. Deve Gowda: 1 June 1996 to 21 April 1997
 * 12) I.K. Gujral 21 April: 1997 to 19 March 1998--->(Atal Bihari Vajpayee: 19 March 1998 to 22 May 2004)
 * 13) Manmohan Singh: 22 May 2004 to 26 May 2014
 * 14) Narendra Modi: 26 May 2014 to


 * When official PMO site as well as the largest media organizations are calling him as 15th; applying "Wikipedia logic" of counting is pure WP:OR, which violates the principles of Wikipedia. Redtigerxyz Talk 17:42, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * We aren't yet doing OR here. LBS has always been historically described as the 2nd PM of India. Thereby NaMo becomes 14th. And i trust older publications more than these sabse tez, sabse pehle (fastest and first) news channels. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 18:20, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Exactly. --Sundostund (talk) 18:43, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I think we should either go with 15th or just drop the whole numbering thing. First, as redtigerxyz says, we shouldn't be doing any calculations ourselves. Any math at all, even 2+12=14, is borderline OR. Second, assuming we can do some math, many of you are confusing Presidents and Heads of State with Prime Ministers. A Prime Minister is a head of government and the office doesn't come with the same pomp and circumstance trappings as does a head of state. Numbering of heads of governments, mere functionaries in titular terms, is in and of itself an exercise of elevation that is quite unwarranted. But, if we do have to go with numbering, then any person who has held the office should automatically be included in the list. He or she is just another head of government. My suggestion, do what the Brits do and drop the numbers. If you want to stick with numbers, count every person who has been a Prime Minister. --regentspark (comment) 19:27, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with redtigerxyz, we just cannot use our own logic here. Modi has become a PM now and the latest sources suggest that he is the 15th PM so we will have to call him 15th. Most of the sources call him 15th. Either we call him 15th or drop the idea of numbering like RP said. -sarvajna (talk) 03:01, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't mind dropping the number. But that should not be restricted to just the lists but also all biographies except Nehru's where there is no doubt on him being the 1st PM. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 03:49, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Dharmadhyaksha I agree, Nehru was our first PM for sure -sarvajna (talk) 03:58, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Fingers crossed for that. BTW, do we have any RTI activist here who can file a question on whether NaMo is 14th or 15th? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I can try to file one, have done it before but for a different purpose. I will do it if time permits. -sarvajna (talk) 04:25, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Has anyone seen the list as it is currently numbered? Nanda not numbered and Shastri as 2nd, so the numbers leading sequentially to Gujral as 12th following Dr Meetsingh's numbering; NO 13th PM, Manmohan Singh 14th, and Modi 15th. NO 13th PM. This is ridiculous. Whichever way we resolve this, any numbering should at least be sequential.

Most news sources seem to number Manmohan 14th, and Modi 15th. This numbering is consistent if Nanda is numbered as a full PM. The list from the PM's office (although not numbered) seems to regard Nanda as a full PM, listed without mention of any "acting" status. As for Shastri as 3rd PM, there are some sources supporting this. LookLook36 (talk) 10:58, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the point. There is no such thing as an "acting PM" because he/she is a head of government appointed by the President. For this reason, there is no such thing as a "line of succession" when a PM dies in office (unlike when a President - or a King/Queen dies in office). The President merely appoints a new head of government on the advice of the cabinet. That choice could change in 13 days as it did with Nanda if there is a stable party in power or could go on for months if the parties are factionalized and no one is able to form a government (in which case the country would have to go to the polls). --regentspark (comment) 14:13, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Just FYI, I have filed a RTI awaiting for reply. Procedure says that I will have to wait for 30 days. So will inform everyone when I get the reply. -sarvajna (talk) 15:22, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Good Sarvajna. Tito ☸ Dutta 15:41, 29 May 2014 (UTC)


 * If Modi is 15th PM then we must change Shastri to 3rd PM of india and make Nanda as 2nd PM! Dr meetsingh  Talk  16:51, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Eyes needed
Please consider watchlisting these two pages for sometime: Heropanti, Tiger Shroff Tito ☸ Dutta 17:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC) Watchlisting for 10-14 days will be fine. Tito ☸ Dutta 17:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Attention required on an article about a living person
I recently added some controversial information (properly sourced) about Francois Gautier. Gautier wrote a spoof about Nostradamus predicting the results of the general elections of the Lok Sabha in 1999 and the spoof was repeated, with different predictions, before almost every elections since. My edits were removed and was stated that it was non-notable information. But it is important because those articles do not state that they are spoof (the author admitted that the original article was a spoof in a later book) and so they are misleading. The latest article, published in the author's blog in March 2014 is cited in some news articles and news channels (oneindia.in, fijitimes, TV9) already. It is also a topic of discussion in many blogs, forums, discussion groups and other websites. I think the truth about the articles must be in Wikipedia. I request someone to take a look at the issue. A comparison between my last edit and the current version can be found here. Thank you. -Inphynite (talk) 06:53, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The actual link showing the Nostradmus thing is here
 * I advised Inphynite to ask here for a second opinion. I just cannot see how a satirical blog post is encyclopedic, even when it was reposted or discussed in some other places. It was also overlong. We also don't cover satirical tweets in the Rushdie article. --Calypsomusic (talk) 09:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)


 * @Calypsomusic, Regarding the edit being disproportionately overlong compared to the conciseness of the rest of the article, I was planning to expand on the article with some newspaper articles I collected. And the first article and some of the subsequent ones were published in the Indian dailies, The Indian Express and The New Indian Express and also in some books written by Gautier (so it's not just some satirical blog post or tweets). My point about the importance of the issue is only that the author is a well known person and his words might be considered authentic and therefore mislead people. It is not even defaming to just tell that all those articles were spoofs which he admitted it himself. But I would like to know what others say, as I am still very new here. -Inphynite (talk) 09:43, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you summarize it in one sentence, which also makes it clear that is meant as a satire? --Calypsomusic (talk) 10:04, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Something like, "Gautier has written spoof articles before every general elections of the Lok Sabha since 1999, about Nostradamus having predicted the results of the elections, in which the Bharatiya Janata Party invariably defeats the Indian National Congress party and leads the development of the nation, although some aspects of the predictions change with every article"? Diluting it further has no point. If this is alright, I think we might leave it at this. -Inphynite (talk) 11:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm ok with this. --Calypsomusic (talk) 12:22, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Alok Nath
The article Alok Nath could do with a few eyes that know something about the subject. The article has been under a longterm vandalism attack. I just reverted to a version that looked ok and semi-protected it for another 3 month. Maybe something slipped through, so more eyes welcome. Agathoclea (talk) 14:49, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Namaste and welcome to WikiProject India noticebaord.I have watchlisted the page. Tito ☸ Dutta 15:53, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Indian Flickr
Is there a similar site where images may have creative commons licenses? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:20, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Namaste and welcome back to WikiProject India noticebaord. There are some links at WP:INDFREE Tito ☸ Dutta 04:09, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly. :) Oh, by the way, there are a couple of cc license links at that page that are red. Should that be addressed? Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:50, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Those are Wikimedia Commons licenses and will work there. Tito ☸ Dutta 20:10, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Foreign players
Hello Indian Task force I'm trying to create new indian foreign players.

Are these players notable?:
 * Alfred Jaryan
 * Bekay Bewar
 * Loveday Okechukwu

Thanks and cheers--Lglukgl (talk) 02:12, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

RfCs
Hi Dear All, You are cordially invited to the ongoing discussion at Talk:Rajput. Sincerely, ← Abstruce  07:05, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Koenraad Elst (serious BLP violations in a BLP article)
Please lend your expertise to a discussion at Koenraad Elst on the serious, long-term BLP/NPOV violations in the BLP article Koenraad Elst at Talk:Koenraad Elst.

The NPOV violations were explained in great detail by the subject of the lemma here, already in 2012 and 2013:
 * The wikipedia lemma on "Koenraad Elst": a textbook example of defamation
 * Meera Nanda against Hinduism

These links say among other things:
 * Well, there you have it. The lemma on me has ended up taking this form because some militant among your contributors purposely wanted to “warn readers” against me. Please cite me an instruction for encyclopedists that names “warning” among the legitimate goals of an encyclopedia.
 * Either you remove the lemma altogether, or you straighten it out and apply the rules of encyclopedia-writing to it. At any rate, in a encyclopedia, I count on being judged for what I myself have said or done, and not for the gossip my declared enemies have come up with.
 * If Wikipedia wants to live up to its promise of being a reliable encyclopedic source, it will strike this and all sentences resembling it from its article on me. At most, it can use me as an example of how it was fooled by some of its all-too-partisan collaborators. Speaking of whom: the history page accompanying my page proves forever that some Wikipedia collaborators wanted to inflict on me the maximum harm possible, an attitude incompatible with work for an encyclopedia.

The blog post was from 2013, and the previous wikipedia article version was chock full of BLP attacks. Currently the article is more neutral (still contains OR in the "Islam" section) and protected.

Because of the very serious NPOV violations in a BLP article, this requires the attention of neutral editors (and also of reasonable editors, both pro and contra Elst). I hope some of you will have a look and weigh in on the talk page. Thank you very much in advance. --Calypsomusic (talk) 17:24, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * This is probably a very dumb thing to ask, but what does lemma mean here? None of the meanings I've looked up really fit the context.—indopug (talk) 18:55, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This word "Lemma" comes from the author's own blog, which is extremely fringe as a reference for a wikipedia article. There is a discussion on the talk page curently going on. This article must rely on reliable external sources and not Koenraad Elst's own blog. To my opinion, there is no BLP violation since all that was written in the previous version was acknowledged by external secondary sources. May be some phrasing can be changed, but I don't see any real issue. Well, that's my opinion only. The two links given above are Koenraad Elts's own blog quotations. On top of that, Koenraad Eslt in his response above is referring sometimes to the talk page, not the article itself. - TwoHorned User_talk:TwoHorned 21:07, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Could we please restrict the discussion to the talk page of KE? It has already spread to three talk pages now. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  04:57, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I think "Lemma" is more used in the Dutch language for an encyclopedia entry (Elst speaks Dutch), see https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemma_%28naslagwerk%29. --Calypsomusic (talk) 10:22, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Need 3rd opinion on use of an image in Aurangabad, Maharashtra
There is an ongoing editing dispute regarding the use of File:Massive crowd at Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar Marathwada University gate during Namvistar Din celebrations.png in Aurangabad, Maharashtra. Please continue the conversation at Talk:Aurangabad, Maharashtra. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  16:12, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Recommending an editnotice for List of companies in Gurgaon
Notice: This discussion has been open for 7 days. If discussion has wound down, consider closing it. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)

Due to repeated attempts to add companies that do not have articles to this list which require cleanup by other editors, this page should have an edit notice to discourage such behavior.

I recommend one of following:

Choice #1:

Choice #2:

It's implied that non-notable companies should not be listed on pages like this, but I'm not sure if there is a consensus for limiting this page to only companies with actual articles. For that reason, I'm favoring option 1 unless someone convinces me that #2 is already the consensus practice.

Please reply with your support, opposition, or recommendations for changes. Unless there is a consensus against this or there are unresolved recommendations or other, I am going to go propose that the edit notice be created in about a week. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  19:40, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: The "look" of the edit notice will be different:  The beige color is specific to talk-pages, it will be a different color, probably off-white.  "Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics" will show up as a non-bold Wiki-link.  It shows up as bold and non-click-able because it's linking to the page you are currently viewing.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  19:46, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

B. R. Ambedkar
Admin-intervention needed there; some editor who thinks he can bypass (a lack of) concensus. I've already warned him. Thanks. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  19:37, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

First Law minister of India - Dr.Ambedkar. (Is Indian Lawyer a better name?) It should be Jurist. Father of Indian Constitution (Largest Indian Democracy) - Dr. Ambedkar. (Is this line to be removed?) Philosopher - He wrote several books on Buddhism such as Buddha or Karl Marx, Buddha and his Dhamma etc., Riddles in Hinduism etc. (Words were removed)

Barack Obama praised him when he came to India. Noble Prize Winner Amartya Sen calls him his father in Economics. (Economist) The Table concering his writings and speeches were removed without any proper justification. Please dont revert those changes. Why am I in trouble as you mentioned? Your's sincerely. Sid Siddheart (talk) 19:55, 2 June 2014 (UTC)Siddheart (talk) 19:45, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand that why Joshua Jonathan wants to remove the Table of Books and about his credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siddheart (talk • contribs) 19:45, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Afd Discussion - K. Prasad Babu.
There is a discussion going on at Articles for deletion/K. Prasad Babu regarding the article of K. Prasad Babu, an Ashok Chakra awardee. Thanks,  ƬheStrike  Σagle  sorties  11:33, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

List of state protected Monuments in Telangana/Andhra Pradesh

 * List of state protected Monuments in Telangana
 * List of state protected Monuments in Andhra Pradesh

Dear members of this project, please take a look of these above mentioned articles and their history. The Telangana article seems to have been copied from the Andhra Pradesh article alongwith from ASI website as noted and tagged by in this edit. User:Vin09, who created the Telangana one had possibly ripped off info from Andhra Pradesh for the Telangana one. Editors could please check if the Telangana one or the concerned user has flouted any guideline. --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support ) 23:16, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Thergaon, Chinchwad
Well there are at least six places in Mahārāshtra named Thergaon, the only one at present with an article, Thergaon, Chinchwad, is currently up for a deletion discussion at Articles for deletion/Thergaon. --Bejnar (talk) 21:48, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Aadhaar and Unique Identification Authority of India
An editor keeps adding material to these two articles that are very promotional. Despite explaining to him, there seems to be no understanding. All this material was removed on UIAI by SpacemanSpiff and the editor keeps re-instating them citing vandalism. In the case of Aadhaar, I had to dig down and revert back to the time before this editor first edited the article, which happens to be a redirect to UIAI. I am not trying to debate whether Aadhaar deserves to be a stand-alone article, but I simply removed all the promotional stuff and if it does deserve to be stand-alone, we can develop the article. Please weigh in. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 16:40, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments India Wesbite hijacked?
The Wiki Loves Monuments India-its website seems to have been replaced by a car rental page!Guru-45 (talk) 03:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * -- Tito ☸ Dutta 19:59, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Created On:18-Apr-2014 20:24:09 UTC Last Updated On:18-Apr-2014 20:24:09 UTC
 * Agathoclea (talk) 10:13, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Moksh Juneja 20:27, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Checked immediate steps that website will be available for renewal on 2015. One suggestion is that we can buy the domain http://www.wikilovesmonuments.co.in/ which is still available.

Wiki Loves Pride 2014
You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride 2014, a campaign to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and its sister projects. The campaign will take place throughout the month of June, culminating with a multinational edit-a-thon on June 21. Meetups are being held in some cities, or you can participate remotely. All constructive edits are welcome in order to contribute to Wikipedia's mission of providing quality, accurate information. Articles within Category:LGBT in Asia may be of particular interest. You can also upload LGBT-related images by participating in Wikimedia Commons' LGBT-related photo challenge. You are encouraged to share the results of your work here. Happy editing! -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:16, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Highway Cup
Anyone interested in Highway editing ? Join HWY Cup -- naveenpf (talk) 15:08, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Sarkara Chakrajmal
Dear experts, please look at this article. Hope someone could fix the issue and facts. --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support ) 18:22, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Bharat Ratna: Article or List?
Should Bharat Ratna be classified as an article or a list? Currently, its a start-class article but it also consists of a list of recipients which cannot be forked into another article of a list class. I have expanded the article in last couple of days and would like to take it up to GA/FA if its an article or to FL, if its a list. Please comment. -  Vivvt  ( Talk ) 21:06, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * , A separate List of Légion d'honneur recipients by name exists for the Legion of Honour award. By this example, we should have a separate List of Bharat Ratna recipients.--Skr15081997 (talk) 02:20, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Bharat Ratna and its receipients should be separate article and list respectively. --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support ) 11:53, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * No forking as I see no reason to do that. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 13:48, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd classify this as an article (as the list is not dominant), but then again I'd split the two if possible, and just provide an overview of the recipients in the main article and an overview of the award in the list. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:32, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree with Crisco, he's said everything that comes to my mind on this question. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:40, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Split. Even for the Nobels, the award does not define the person or their contribution: that content belongs in an individual's bio. The list should include the same sorts of navigation aids used in other list articles on awards. See wp:CLT for guidance. The article on the award should avoid comparison of the recipients: other than the first and the most recent, others belong at the list. LeadSongDog come howl!  16:31, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Some FLs give a little overview of why the person received an award. National Hero of Indonesia (this one wasn't split because I couldn't find enough to do a proper article and list; the Bharat Ratna does not have this issue) gives a very general overview as most readers aren't familiar with the subject. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:34, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Support branching off the list as a separate article.—indopug (talk) 02:12, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm against forking this. The page could be reorganized to look cleaner, but the size of the list is not enough to warrant a new page and we would merely obligate the reader to make another click to find what he/she is looking for. Hekerui (talk) 06:49, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * 43 is certainly enough to be split off. We could have something like

, there have been 43 recipients of the Bharat Ratna x men and y women, an average of z awards every year. The Baharat Ratna was first given in 1954 to the independence activist C. Rajagopalachari, physicist C. V. Raman, and philosopher Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan. The first posthumous award followed ten years later, when former prime minister Lal Bahadur Shastri received the Bharat Ratna. The Bharat Ratna has been given to non-citizens twice, namely to Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan in 1987 and to Nelson Mandela in 1990, as well to a naturalised citizen once - Mother Theresa in 1980. ...
 * Offers an overview of the subject without taking up that much space. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:11, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Would you support FL of such a list with only this much of prose in lead? And would you support FA of the article without the list when only 43 names had to be presented. We should take into consideration the fact that the list does not grow drastically and there is no point in repeating similar prose on both articles. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:14, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Dharmadhyaksha, you missed the ellipses there. That wasn't supposed to be a full lead, just an indication of how one could phrase an overview of the recipients for the main article. How I would write a lead for this award can be see in the Indonesia article linked above. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:46, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I understood how it was just a trailer. But I still don't see much a point in repeating similar stuff on two pages. Some prominent names will have to be included in prose-format in the article when a list-format is separated out. Now the "prominence" is a different and big issue best solved by mentioning all recipients. Check the article history and you would find various IPs and newcomers coming in and adding their state names, or the languages they spoke or their place of birth and such other associations. With keeping that in mind, it would be a tough thing to mention only few names in prose and redirect to a different page to read the whole list. Also, when list will be separated out, the controversies related to them will have to be included there too. While the list can be modeled in a way to ultimately be at par with FL, i think that would hamper the article and make it tough to qualify FA. (Am just bringing in FL/FAs in here as that should be the aim of all entries on WP.) §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:15, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a challenge, yes, but it's a challenge that will have to be faced at one time or another. Right now the number of recipients is 43, with what looks like an average of 1 person granted the Bharat Ratna a year. So, in 2020, there would be 49 or 50... is that still few enough for inclusion in the main article? What if there are 100? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:20, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Well...It’s a challenge for the editors of next generation and not us. Call it OR or whatever; but if you observe, 14 awards were given till 1970s, in two decades of 1970-80s there were only 7, in 1990s it rose to 17 and since 2000s it’s been only 5. Majority of the winners have been independence activists which trend probably stopped in 2000s thereby shrinking the eligible pool. While the criteria can anytime get lenient and be open to encompass more personalities, I see that as a rare chance. So reaching a high number in lesser time is against extrapolation as of now. I suppose we need not worry of it getting much bigger. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:40, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

My intention was not to have information and references duplicated. With the amount of information collected so far, it would not be very difficult to split and make it as an article and a list. But then readers would need to jump back and forth to read detailed info and list of recipients. -  Vivvt  ( Talk ) 00:39, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah! And at only 56kb+ size we don't technically need to split it. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 05:37, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * With no clear consensus on article/list, I have nominated it for GAN just like Nobel Prize. If the number of recipients goes beyond 50 in coming years, I would split it into another list as suggested above. Thanks all for your suggestions and comments. - <span style="font:italic bold 11px Georgia, serif"> Vivvt  <small style="font-size:85%;">( Talk ) 03:14, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Nagpur orange
An article that you have been involved in editing, Nagpur orange, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Cnilep (talk) 02:38, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Need suggestion
There are two BLP pages, Amrinder Singh (a football player) and Amarinder Singh (ex-CM Punjab). These Punjabi names are obviously same but romanization is done differently. In such cases, what is the precedent ? Should they be both moved to new title by attaching (player) and (politician) respectively and a disambiguation page be created or both article be left in present state? -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 05:45, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * For now you can add to both or just the footballer (as the politician appears to be the more notable person currently. Ideally, since it's just two people, the primary topic (politician) should have the non-disambiguated title with a redirect from the poss spelling error and the footballer should be located at the disambiguated title -- Amrinder Singh (footballer) (or whatever is the WP:Footy guideline for disambiguation. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  09:39, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Dadasaheb Phalke Award at the ITNR
Its pleasure to announce that Dadasaheb Phalke Award is now added in the In the news/Recurring items. The news can thus be promoted to ITN. But the passing is on condition that the recipient's article should meet the high standards of grammar and NPOV which usually are observed to be lacking. Cheers! §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 11:47, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Good job! - <span style="font:italic bold 11px Georgia, serif"> Vivvt  <small style="font-size:85%;">( Talk ) 13:39, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Film help on Parvathi Pura
I need help figuring out the film Parvathi Pura. I'm helping a user on Parvathy Nair and his understanding of Wikipedia is very low. He kept getting reverted because he couldn't express why he was removing text. He thinks the film should not be mentioned on the Nair page as Nair was never in it. I've deleted other films from the page as they were never filmed, but Parvathi Pura has me stumped. I find refs that it was filmed, it wasn't filmed, Nair was in it, Nair wasn't or Nair only did a cameo. Bgwhite (talk) 22:35, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Indian Monarchs
Is there any inherent notability policy/guidelines regarding present day sons and daughters of Indian monarchs or in other words "titular Maharajas" ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vigyani (talk • contribs) 07:01, 9 June 2014
 * No there isn't. They have to fit in something else or GNG. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 08:50, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 08:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually I don't think there is an inherent notability to past day's monarchs also. They need to pass GNG. Redirects are fine to their kingdom or ancestry articles. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 11:25, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Dharmadhyaksha is spot-on regarding the initial query but, as much as I don't care for incredibly stubby and otherwise flawed articles about obscure rulers of obscure estates, I wonder whether all "genuine" monarchs are in fact notable by dint of WP:NPOL. Specifically, #1 in the criteria. - Sitush (talk) 06:13, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * hmm. Anyhow, I have nominated one Shahu II for deletion. You guys could help in deciding if to keep or to delete. -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 06:38, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

I see strange numbers.
Hello. In various India related articles a strange numbering format appears (from Crime in India): "as the number of incidents per 1,00,000 of the population", "an increase of 1.5% over 2005 (50,26,337)" It appears quite a lot in the particular article and I've noticed it in several other India related articles and lists, so I figured it would be a good idea to bring it to everyone's attention, rather than just edit those I happen upon from time to time. I don't know if it's just someone being sloppy, a numerical keyboard having a mind of its own or numbers just working differently in India, but it undermines the credibility of the articles when the facts presented in them appear to be nonsense. It is of course entirely possible that the problem extends beyond India related articles on English Wikipedia, but I don't recall having seen such numbers elsewhere. Dix d&#39;Épées (talk) 14:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * See Indian Numbering System. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:15, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * That explains the numbering system, but this has bothered me for some time. We do metre/yard conversions showing both, shouldn't we be doing conversions for such numbers so that non-Indian-English readers understand them - and don't try to correct them? Ditto for lakh and crore. Dougweller (talk) 14:18, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I've just checked. The Manual of Style/India-related articles says "Use the Indian numbering system of lakhs and crores. Give their equivalents in millions/billions in parentheses." Which is a little ambiguous. Does it refer just to usage of the words crore and lakh, or does it include using the two-digit grouping as well? As I see it, the problem is that to someone unfamiliar with the system, "ten lakh (one million)" makes sense (it introduces an unfamiliar word, and explains it), but 10,00,000 (1,000,000) would just seem strange. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:35, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Should we be using Manual of Style/India-related articles? Though I don't disagree with most of what it says, it does seem to have been put into place largely undiscussed.--regentspark (comment) 18:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems to be a project style-guide, based on outcomes in discussions here. Since projects cannot over-ride the consensus of the wider community, it is fairly toothless even by guideline standards. That said, I do regularly refer people to WP:NCIN, WP:INDICSCRIPT etc and also to some notes of my own at User:Sitush/Common. - Sitush (talk) 06:25, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

The numbering issue has been discussed time and again. I remain of the opinion that using lakh/crore and the associated formatting is inappropriate on the English-language Wikipedia. While the Western system is apparently comprehensible to literate Indians, the Indian system is more often than not incomprehensible to literate non-Indians. In the interests of cosmospolitan inclusionism, yes, I guess we should show both and I think that I did once ask whether the convert could be modified to do the job ... but it still irks me. The fly in the ointment of omitting the Indian variant is WP:MOSQUOTE - we are not supposed to link terms inside quotations and that can life awkward for lakh etc. I would imagine that, for example, a nationalist politician might be very unhappy to see their use of Indian format converted by us into a Western style. Then again, I quite regularly see people moving the commas around because they think it is a typo, and that can then make a nonsense of what is said anyway. - Sitush (talk) 06:25, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Convert doesn't necessarily have to be modified, someone with an understanding of template code can create a or some such thing to fix this issue for a while (I think South Asian would be more appropriate as this type of numbering is common across the subcontinent, not just India). &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  14:26, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 12/06
Draft:Bhavani Island, Vijayawada. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 14:39, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Living people on EN wiki who are dead on other wikis
The following individuals who are in the scope of this project are showing to be alive on the English wiki, but deceased on another language wiki:


 * Arbaaz Khan (Indian actor): bn:১৯৬৭-এ মৃত্যু
 * Dada Vaswani: fa:درگذشتگان ۱۹۶۶ (میلادی)
 * K. Kunchunniraja: ml:2005-ൽ മരിച്ചവർ
 * Safiur Rahman Mubarakpuri: ar:وفيات 2006
 * Sarla Thakral: ta:2009 இறப்புகள்

Please help to find reliable sources to confirm if these individuals are alive or dead, or correct any mis-categorization on the relevant foreign-language article(s). Please see WP:LIVINGDEAD for more info and raise any issues on the talkpage. Thanks.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 08:43, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Funny stuff keeps happening nowadays on Wikipedia. How are we to prove they are not dead now? We can prove they weren't dead in recent past.
 * Arbaaz Khan was at Indian Property Show on 12th June.
 * This was a easy one. Reat will hunt down and bring later on. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 09:06, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I suspect a few of these are vandalism on the other language projects. Any help in fixing/updating any of these is most welcomed.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 09:20, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Dada Vaswani is also alive. Others couldn't find anything conclusive. -- Redtigerxyz  Talk 11:50, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Andhra Pradesh or Telangana
List of schools in Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh was just moved to List of schools in Hyderabad, Telangana. Is this uncontroversial? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * After the formation of Telangana, Hyderabad in now in the state of Telangana.
 * Fair enough. Thank you kindly. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:02, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

More Indic language Wikimedians to curate @WeAreWikipedia on Twitter
Hi all, fellow Wikimedian User:Titodutta suggested me to write to you all about the @WeAreWikipedia on Twitter. It is a rotation curation on Twitter where one Wikimedian curates the handle for a week, shares interesting community and project stories and also be the face of Wikipedia for the world. So far, 18 curators including 6 Indic language curators have already curated. I would love to hear from more Indic Wikimedians if they would like to curate it. Thanks --SubhaUtter2me! 12:21, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

cut and paste move
has cut and paste moved "Jammu (city)" to "Jammu" and "Jammu" (original) to "Jammu division". I thought to bring the attention of WP:IN, if anyone is interested in contesting it. Otherwise I was going to request some admin to do the move properly, because history and talk pages are left behind.-- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 13:29, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Sigh, it's a bad mess. I don't have an opinion on the titles, but if consensus is that it's ok currently then I can do a histmerge. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  14:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Current names of Jammu and Jammu Division seem suitable for their respective contents. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 15:39, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I think I've fixed this and all the history pre and post cut and paste should now be at the correct locations. If anything looks odd, let me know. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  07:30, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, a lot of links are being targeted incorrectly now because of the c&p moves as well as this fixing of it. Can folks please check the links to Jammu and retarget to Jammu Division as and when necessary. Jammu (city) shouldn't be a problem as that redirects to the correct article. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  07:52, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I think at least 3 edits of Shivansh.ganjoo has been lost. is that okay ? -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 08:14, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I noticed that too, but I can't seem to find any of those edits in this history or deleted history (I noticed two -- where the actual copy paste occurred, which is the third?). &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  14:32, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
 * 2 edits of Jammu city to Jammu cut paste, and 1 paste into Jammu division. But its okay, I guess. -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 16:09, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Pinging and  to see if either of them can figure out the issue. The articles in question are Jammu Division (moved from Jammu) and Jammu (moved from Jammu (city)). &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  16:30, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Honestly I don't think it's worth it if they are edits by the person who did the cut and paste move. Just tell him what happened, let him worry about it. It would probably require crosschecking his contribution history with the article. Dougweller (talk) 16:37, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Yashovarman & Gaudavaho
I've just created Yashovarman. Does anyone know of a link to a public domain edition of the Gaudavaho by Vakpati? There are plenty of commercial editions of it but if there is a PD one then I'll shove the thing into External Links. There are, as is so often the case, numerous spellings in English of both the author and the work. - Sitush (talk) 21:16, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


 * . Found one. - Sitush (talk) 16:46, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet for Wikiproject India at Wikimania 2014 - updated version
Please note: This is an updated version of a previous post that I made.

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 14:59, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Shall we
Shall we use non english in article's talk page? Eshwar .om Talk tome 16:49, 18 June 2014 (UTC)


 * No. Please see WP:TPG. - Sitush (talk) 17:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * oh !thank you.can you go through the page of Talk:Andhra_Pradesh. Eshwar .om Talk tome 17:22, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Journal of Indian History
Has anyone got access to The Journal of Indian History from 1963 (volume 41)? I'm after the full text of an article that appeared around p. 765? I think we're misquoting it due to people using Google Books snippet view. I'll try WP:RX if no-one here can help - it is awkward because we don't have the author, precise page range etc but it looks like the JIH is published once a year,. - Sitush (talk) 06:29, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I do have access to it. Not sure if I can get to the library over the next couple of days though and am traveling after that but will try. The cited text would be helpful. --regentspark (comment) 13:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm working on Gurjara-Pratihara. The source is cited, with a quote from it. The quote appears to be incomplete &, more generally, I am concerned about the entire overview & representation of the various cited sources + others that might possibly be relevant but are not cited. We seem to be relying on 50-year old research and we know that the Gurjar caste warriors have been in and out of the article, so my antennae have been twitching. - Sitush (talk) 17:37, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Ishita Malaviya
An IP repeatedly adds CSD tag to Ishita Malaviya claiming its not notable despite being supported by quite a lot of RS. They have started a discussion in talk and insists I let the vague CSD tag remain till 24 hours....Comments requested. Thanks,  ƬheStrike  Σagle   06:58, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * As you are not the creator of the article, you can very well contest the CSD by tag's removal. As the discussion is on-going at the talk page there is no need to let the tag stay there; especially when the article is live on Main Page through DYK. I have removed the tag now. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 07:28, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course but I already made 3RR and didn't want to cross it...I knew the vague tag won't stay for long...  ƬheStrike  Σagle   07:31, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If you have made 3RR, it would also maybe mean they have made it to. So report them to WP:AVI. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 08:31, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

on spaces in South Indian names
see Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(people) --Soman (talk) 15:40, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Advertisement or Endorsement
Advertisement or Endorsement???In India article ,see under Society section  the File and  the image content //''A Christian wedding in Madurai, Tamil Nadu. Christianity is believed to have been introduced to India by the late 2nd century''//.What non sense it is? .Internet,television,radio,are all old fashion, Now India article on Wikipedia is new fashion for them might be? what doing  India-related admins .thank you Eshwar .om Talk tome 15:22, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what your complaint is. Could you be more specific please? There are several images there. They switch from time to time, so now I see a Sikh pilgrim in the Society section. Dougweller (talk) 16:10, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

'They switch from time to time'.yes Your correct.No words to say.Thank you. Eshwar .om Talk tome 18:13, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * In what sense was that picture advertising? Please be clear with policies. See WP:SPAM. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 02:26, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Defsort for South Indian names?
see Template_talk:DEFAULTSORT -Soman (talk) 07:10, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Akshay Kumar filmography
The above list is now a featured list candidate. This is my first FLC, please help me. I feel that it meets the featured list criteria.--Skr15081997 (talk) 15:02, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll help. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 23:17, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, brother.--Skr15081997 (talk) 03:30, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Indo-European migrations
A new IP is looking for trouble:. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  19:02, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Edit-warring at M. S. Golwalkar
An editor is repeatedly inserting poorly sourced and POV material into the M. S. Golwalkar article, and refusing to discuss his edits on the talkpage. Could somebody take a look at this? Thanks—indopug (talk) 14:00, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Chautala, Haryana
Hello, India experts. Here's another of those old abandoned AfC submissions about a village. It includes a census record to show its existence. Should this be kept and improved? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 18:05, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It is home to the political dynasty of Devi Lal. See the single entry history of Chautala where the village has been redirected to a clan. As home to two Chief Ministers I'm sure there should be sources about the place, but you're going to have difficulty digging them up because the name is used by multiple active politicians from the dynasty and finding the village sources would be painful. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  18:14, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I have done some expansion and added few references.-- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 01:55, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne Delong, as per WP:GEOLAND, "Populated, legally-recognized places" are notable; with the added references, we should move it to mainspace. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 07:09, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Done, and thanks for the help. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 10:54, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Rai brahmin
New article by new editor, needs attention - just a tiny stub. Dougweller (talk) 12:18, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Railway-related pages
Some Wikipedians have been using Wikipedia as a complaint box. I am not sure whether this is okay or not but the pages seem to be losing their relevance. I request other editors, particularly an administrator, to kindly see some of the pages - Visakhapatnam railway station, Cuttack railway station, Sambalpur railway station and Jharsuguda railway station. Also please see Rourkela Railway Division - there is no such railway division, this article is canvassing support for one. Is Wikipedia meant for this? - Chandan Guha (talk) 04:12, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Also please see East Coast Railway zone - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:29, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Why are there such articles anyway? I don't recall such articles for, say, Dutch railway stations. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  06:00, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, there are... Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  06:02, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Here you go Joshua, . If I'm not mistaken, there's some policy or guideline or standard outcome that states that all rail stations are notable or something to that effect. That's why the tree exists. This isn't to take away anything from the original post -- ever since the Railways task force turned inactive here the number of problems has gone up. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  06:08, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The NS ("Nederlandse Spoorwegen") has an interactive schedule at its website. That's all I want to know about railway stations: what time does my train leave? Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  07:33, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

which prime minister
Hello, my apologies for the delay. I got the reply to my RTI query but looks like it is not going to be very helpful. This is what I received.
 * Is it possible to ask, "Who is 13th PM?" in RTI? -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 13:29, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * yes, it is possible however I feel that the response would be on a similar line. They might just tell that the information is present on the website. -sarvajna (talk) 15:26, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Basireddy Palem
Dear India experts: Here's another abandoned AfC submission about an Indian village. Would anyone like to improve it? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Banned editor's India-related contributions need reviewing
This account's contributions need to be gone over and either reverted or endorsed. He was recently uncovered as a sockpuppet of Nitishkumartn (SPI), who has been banned since Feb. 2014. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  18:40, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Input request
We could use some views here: User talk:Vin09. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Please don't be swayed by the section title. I may very well be completely wrong. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:37, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Help with an article?
Hi everyone! I was wondering if anyone could help out with the article Arjun (2011 film)? It could use some definite TLC, as there aren't many sources on there to back up the movie's information. User:NinjaRobotPirate (who alerted me to the article) is also concerned that there is a language barrier and a COI as far as the original editor is concerned. I'm going to try to find sources, but I'm running into the typical issues with Google searches in that they don't really bring up all of the Indian sources that could potentially be out there. I'd greatly appreciate whatever help you guys can provide. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   03:33, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Marathi sources need to be checked. Here are some good sources:

-- Redtigerxyz Talk 04:49, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * http://navshakti.co.in/editorial/visheshtatparya/15197/
 * http://article.wn.com/view/WNATf452047a06166f42f1d1e16af5e5baaf/

Four edits, two warnings
Admin-involvement needed for this new user: four edits, three warnings. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  02:19, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Joshua Jonathan, no action is needed against an user with 4 edits. You just revert and discuss if needed. If the user is persistent, then admin action can be contemplated. For that, please approach appropriate forum under Administrators' noticeboard, not here. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 04:41, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  05:37, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

New AfD on a journal, COI & possible pov editing by groujp
See Articles for deletion/Journal of Bengali Studies where I wrote "On a side issue, I note that the organisation that publishes the journal is going to create more and that its founder is the creator of the article. That might be all fine and dandy, except that they actually have an agenda. "We are trying to promote Bengali history on wikipedia by authoring articles." Great. "We are working on the Jayadeva birth controversy, in order to dispel doubts about the birthplace of Jayadeva, the poet of Gitgobindo." Terrible and takes us back to this AfD. The birthplace of Jayadeva is heavily disputed, see [Jayadeva birth controversy]]. But here we have an 'academic journal' run by people who are dedicated to dispel doubts - that is to argue that he was born in Bengali and I would guess to use their journals as sources to push this position. Please read all of as it appears this organisation hopes to have an impact on a number of our articles." This is basically an alert - anyone can edit Wikipedia, but if people with an agenda create a journal and write articles for it, then using them to edit.... Dougweller (talk) 15:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The creator of the article has been blocked for legal threats, his edit summaries are worth reading.. Dougweller (talk) 15:29, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Blank and redirect sourced Indian actress
Hi. An editor keeps blanking this http://cityairnews.com/content/jalandhar%E2%80%99s-surbhi-jyoti-makes-her-hindi-television-debut-zee-tv%E2%80%99s-qabool-hai actress see Talk:Surbhi Jyoti, refuses to use a normal delete tag or go via AFD. Can someone else check and see if this is appropriate for this actress, thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * TheRedPenofDoom is pretty hot on BLPs. And he's write, with only one reliable source so far fails GNG, but redirect is better than deleting, at least people searching for her will go somewhere relevant. If you can find a similar source you should be ok. Dougweller (talk) 06:22, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Census data for sub-division
Can someone tell me where I can find sub-division level/block level data of 2011 Census? Most of the Wikipedia articles have 2001 data, but 2011 information is missing. Amartyabag  TALK2ME  05:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * A lot of the 2011 figures are provisional rather than finalised, so the info may not yet even be published. The official website is here. - Sitush (talk) 10:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

4 user-space drafts are now at WP:MFD

 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Niyoginayeebramhana
 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:NAYEE BRAHMINS
 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Brahmin nayee
 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Vishwagna

as you particpated in Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Cskumaar/Maruthuvar community you may have an interest in these discussions as well. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  21:22, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

And then there is Hiseminency as well as Dayemi Complex Bangladesh
See User:Hiseminency/sandbox which is I think a copy of - so maybe copyvio. But we also have Dayemi Complex Bangladesh which is a real article in desperate need of work (and is part bio which it shouldn't be). And User:Wmaiirfb which is even worse. Who actually is Hazrat Sheikh Shah Sufi Mohammad Nurul Alam? Dougweller (talk) 14:25, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I've stubbed the DCB article, which was based on what amounts to a WP:SPS. It probably should go to AFD - I've done a quick search and there really doesn't seem to be anything of note out that other than the EOSOC affiliation (which doesn't mean much, really) and some prizes that it awarded in the 1980s. However, I'm only searching English-language sources. - Sitush (talk) 15:13, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Boraj Tanwaran
Interested editors may wish to peruse Boraj Tanwaran (3 deletions) aka Boraj Tawaran (one deletion). The creator has recreated despite an AfD (Articles for deletion/Boraj Tanwaran) that resulted in deletion. Editor doesn't seem malicious, just misguided and very eager to having a page about their village on WP. I have tried to advise them but editor doesn't listen, or doesn't understand. -220  of  Borg 20:44, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Moot now as deleted again. Look out for re-creation. - 220  of  Borg 16:04, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 07/07
Draft:Dr. Arawind (Arvind) Thatte. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 21:16, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I deleted this as a copyright violation. Dougweller (talk) 16:36, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Rama
There is a dispute about the depth of content at Rama. Please help by giving your opinions on the same. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 16:47, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Deccan Wars
Seems to be edit warring over who won here, spilling over to at Maratha Empire. Dougweller (talk) 10:59, 12 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I had a look, unfortunately the Encyclopaedia Britannica source is behind a 'paywall' so I can't check what it says re whether "the Marathas were able (or failed) to consolidate their territory during the Deccan Wars". --220  of  Borg 16:44, 12 July 2014 (UTC)


 * You can find it on Google Books. The ref doesn't mention "Deccan Wars" at all. utcursch | talk 17:51, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Merger discussion
There is currently a discussion at Talk:Guntur district to merge Guntur Coast with Guntur district. Input would be appreciated.  ミーラー強斗武  (StG88ぬ会話) 18:45, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Narendra Modi (2002 Gujarat riots)
Please provide your expertise on the issue "Narendra Modi (2002 Gujarat riots)" in the Biography of Living Persons Noticeboard. In my opinion, the article on 2002 Gujarat riots seriously misrepresents the views a couple of US Congressmen as the views of National Human Rights Commission and the US State Department. If you need more details please ask. Uday Reddy (talk) 16:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The subject discussion is at BLP_Noticeboard. Uday, please provide such direct links from next time. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 07:26, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

requesting help for 'help video clip'
Hi, I came across one video clip for ULS help for Telugu language wikipedia as shown below. The clip is usefull but it does not show how to access help page. We will apreciate if some one helps us with simmiller clip for Marathi language.

Thanks & Regards Mahitgar (talk) 15:16, 21 July 2014 (UTC)



Category rename
The category Category:Leaders of All India Muslim League is being considered for renaming to Category:All India Muslim League members. The discussion is ongoing here. An editor expressed concern that regular participants of related topics might not be aware of it and hence this note here. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:30, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

The Indian Biographical Dictionary (1915)
This is a huge list of Indian biographies that possibly should have their own article on Wikipedia. The text is in public domain.--Skr15081997 (talk) 09:01, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't suppose they all are notable by default. Are they? Also, there might be mistaken identities and caution needs to be exercised. For example, their Bhagat Singh is different from what we have at Bhagat Singh or Bhagat Singh Thind. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 09:31, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
 * This is a very old work so it needs to be examined carefully. I agree that all of the entries are not notable. But we can use this biographical dictionary to fill the voids on Wikipedia.--Skr15081997 (talk) 09:55, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Have copied the list at WikiProject India/Requested articles/The Indian Biographical Dictionary (1915) and written instructions at the top. Feel free to modify them for more ease. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:53, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot.--Skr15081997 (talk) 11:04, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The selection criteria is bizarre - no H. H. Risley or James Tod, for example - and I'd be really concerned about incorrect information in the original etc. I also have the horrible feeling we could end up with an awful lot of articles about really rather non-notable minor civil servants, local heroes etc. Don't forget that GNG requires multiple reliable sources and more than just passing mentions. This dictionary seems to me to be more of a directory of officeholders and I suspect that a lot of it was plagiarised from the East India Company's India Lists. With care, it might be useful to substantiate career progression but not much more than that.


 * And, please, don't copy/paste even though it is public domain: the problems caused by doing that are immense if/when articles are expanded, as is apparent in many of our older articles that used the (crap) 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica. When WP was attempting rapidly to expand, copy/pasting was viewed as an acceptable means of forging ahead but it is now deprecated and we should not be encouraging it. - Sitush (talk) 05:44, 22 July 2014 (UTC)


 * By all means inclusion in this book is not a qualifier. It also has many Maharajas, listed with their father's name, how much pension they get and where they stayed then. I have only recreated the list on en.wiki so we can mess it with our comments. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 07:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Sachin Tendulkar (4th) GA nom
Please note that Sachin Tendulkar had been nominated for GA (fourth time) and is currently under review. Due to the unavailability of the nominator, requesting anybody interested in getting it passed as a good article to respond in the review here. Otherwise, the reviewer will have to fail it within a week. Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 13:03, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Katariya
Hi. I was wondering if a Wikiproject India team member could have a look at Katariya. An editor has repeated a change to the location of this town. Thanks. -- Whpq (talk) 17:12, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It looks fine. I have just reviewed and categorized the article as well as fixed the coordinates of the location. C ute st Penguin '''  {talk • contribs} 18:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The thing that is odd is that the provided reference (see ) from the 2011 Indian census indicates that it is located in Ambedkar Nagar district and not Gazipur (actually should that be Gazipur District?). Is it an error in the Indian census info?-- Whpq (talk) 18:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There is more than one place named Katariya, possibly also Kataria, so this needs to be disambiguated. This article should return to the original Ambedkar Nagar location, and be renamed to Katariya, Ambedkar Nagar. The current link to the district takes you to a town in Bangladesh. Imc (talk) 18:33, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Wow. Missed that it was in Bangladesh. I'll revert back,a nd tehn try to communicate with the editor although it appears that he/she has a very poor command of English. I've started a discussion at Talk:Katariya -- Whpq (talk) 18:38, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Article on Khariboli, Hindustani, Hindi and Urdu languages
Hi, All these articles mentioned a wrong information that Khariboli originated out of Hindustani, while in reality Hindustani evolved from Khariboli(a dialect of Western Hindi). Can anyone help to get that information changed.

Ashok4himself (talk) 19:01, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you provide reliable source to whatever you say? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 05:42, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Pundarikakshan Perumal Temple article temple coordinates seen to be wrong
The coordinates to the above temple seems to be wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kishorehere (talk • contribs) 18:24, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Request to remove/delete Category:Kosala and its sub-categories.
Kosala is actually an ancient land somewhere in Northern India. But the pages attached to those categories are not related to that ancient kingdom. Few people claims that there region was in Kosala and they keep adding categories like Category:People from Kosala, Category:Geography of Kosala, Category:Economy of Kosala etc. But all these articles, categorized under above mentioned Categories, are actually related to Present Day Odisha. So delete those categories and add respective Odisha related Categories to the articles. After all Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not Separatists' Documentation.-- Shiti (talk) 06:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Haven't looked in depth but probably the category only needs to be renamed to Category:Dakshina Kosala which would be about the colony of the Kosala kingdom which is discussed in Dakshina Kosala Kingdom. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 08:35, 23 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Agreed with you. But the People who born in 90s should not to be added in "Category:People from Kosala" nor "Category:People from Dakshina Kosala". Similarly modern architectures, industries etc, should be added in Odisha related categories. Well History-related articles can have "dakshina kosala" category.-- Shiti (talk) 18:13, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree with Shiti . The name "Kosala" itself does not have any official documentation from the government of Odisha where the region is geographically based now. Plus, Wikipedia cannot have articles/categories just based on personal and political propaganda that are not notable. --Psubhashish (talk) 19:00, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree with Shiti. Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_23 created. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 20:09, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Telangana
I recently requested an edit for WikiProject India to include the telangana parameters shown on WP:WikiProject Telangana. I posted at Template talk:WikiProject India and WT:WikiProject Telangana, but apparently lost the note I wrote for this page. Sorry to leave you guys out. Your thoughts are appreciated. <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">—PC-XT+ 08:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Support. Articles (Places) from Telangana under Andhra Pradesh WP need to be re-categorized under Telangana WP.-- Redtigerxyz Talk 18:32, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's done! We can start recategorizing, now. <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">—PC-XT+ 21:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

HDVSL
I would like to draw attention of Indian editors and admins towards the article HDVSL, I believe this article is truly useful but need to do a lot of work in order to expend and improve it. C ute st Penguin ''' {talk • contribs} 14:57, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Languages in censuses and Race and ethnicity in censuses
Pleas add information about this country to this articles--Kaiyr (talk) 13:20, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit-warring at Kayastha
Admin-intervention would be welcome. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  09:50, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * They've already had a caste sanctions warning. Take it to WP:AN3 and mention that - they need to be topic banned. I'm off out, so cannot do it.


 * And since I'm typing, does any regular here read Gujarati? If so, would they be willing to discuss something with me via email? - Sitush (talk) 09:58, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Afd
Hello friends, here again after quite sometime. Need some help here. I'm not sure if the subject meets GNG. And on the other hand the author has some serious WP:COI issues. Thanks,  Jim Carter (from public cyber)  10:57, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Bhagat Singh
Can someone familiar with the language have a look at this? The article follows the source but another editor (who I assume is fluent in the language) says it means something else. I suppose the source could be wrong or contains a sloppy translation. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:56, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The source clearly says that the translation is "long live the revolution" (page 94). On page 102, it says that they raised slogans of "inqalab zindabad" and "down with imperialism" (note the 'and') and that's probably where the confusion stems from. I'll correct it. --regentspark (comment) 17:01, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Does it say "and"? It doesn't in my version, p. 101. - Sitush (talk) 17:10, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The link actually goes to page 101 where there's no "and", just a comma. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:12, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * p.94 clearly translates it as long live the revolution. On page 101, the sentence says they shouted revolutionary slogans (note the plural) "inqalab zindabad", "down with imperialism".--regentspark (comment) 17:20, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Sheesh, my eyesight is failing! - Sitush (talk) 17:21, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Inqalab means revolution and Zinda in Zindabad means alive .-- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 02:05, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * As Vigyani says. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 03:50, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Same as Vigyani, Dharmadhyaksha. -- AmritasyaPutra ✍ 11:38, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Aripalam
Dear India experts: Is this old AfC submission about a real village? Should it be kept and improved instead of being deleted as a stale draft? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 13:46, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne Delong, It is a real village with a pincode and a bank  IMO, needs to be retained as per WP:GEOLAND. Census of India, 1961: Kerala  mentions about a church there. The village is mentioned in other ref, as well known weaving centers.-- Redtigerxyz  Talk 14:20, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, . I added the references and have moved the article to mainspace. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 14:44, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Swami Isa
Dear India experts: Here is another of those old abandoned AfC submissions that will soon be deleted as a stale draft unless someone decides to work on it. I have a poor understanding of this topic, so I am reporting it here. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 01:46, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems to be having details, can we not make it to article space yet? Editors can continue there, no? (I honestly don't know the procedure/expectation here). -- AmritasyaPutra ✍ 11:46, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne Delong, the notability of the subject godman is questionable. Most references are primary/official site. The third party refs are news reports where he is mentioning in passing as founder of Isa Viswa Prajnana Trust.-- Redtigerxyz  Talk 18:03, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Details are good,, but before being moved to mainspace the article needs three things: (1) It must strictly factual, with no praise or words suggesting that Wikipedia endorses him. (2) It must be supported by some newspaper, magazine, book, etc. writings that are not created by him or from within his organization, to show that he is generally well known enough for an article. (3) Any controversial or extraordinary facts must be cited inline (other more ordinary facts should be too, but that can wait until after it's moved).  Right now the article is far from following these guidelines; if it were moved to mainspace it would be deleted pretty quickly.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 18:28, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Dates of festivals
Hi All! I posted this at Village pump (miscellaneous) few days back but have no reply. I guess people over there aren't much into non-sense stuff like this. Hence reposting it here.... Various festivals, like the Category:Hindu festivals, Category:Islamic festivals and many others follow the calendars of their respective religions. Most calendars being lunar, there is no fixed date of Gregorian calendar to observe a given festival. Hence, the infobox of these articles includes few recent dates; e.g. see Eid al-Fitr where 2013-16 dates are seen. These dates would vanish after a few years and would be replaced with the then recent ones. Now my question is; is this historic data worth keeping somewhere or is it trivial enough to let go? If not in Wikipedia, is there any other project which would store this database; maybe Wikidata? Basically if and when expanded it would be a comparison of various calendars. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 06:37, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Good question DD. How about a List of Eid al-Fitr Dates? --regentspark (comment) 11:45, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Is that notable to stay? We do have List of dates for Easter. But that seems to be a notable topic since ages. Also, Eid was just an example. Would List of dates of Diwali, and other many festivals, be equally able to stay? Someone keen in Horology (is that the right subject?) would be able to state it. Will wait for some time and then drop a message at WikiProject Time. User:Titodutta and User:Viswaprabha, as you are listed members of WP:TIMEPRO, can you help? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:19, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it is notable enough to stay. Since the dates of these festivals vary, a list tracking historical (and future) dates is encyclopedic - imo anyway. Let's see what other opinions show up. --regentspark (comment) 13:33, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I too am of the opinion that we must keep all such dates recorded, if possible, even from an earlier timebase. The advantages of keeping such dates are many. For eg: many a times, the date of birth of historic personalities are mentioned with reference to a local calendar or a special ('festival') day. Such biographies can be enriched with better time data with strong citations if there is a mechanism to cross-check the calendars. Even some other notable old events (eg. a disaster at Kumbh Mela) may be directly connected to a festival day. <font size="4" color="red" face="Brush Script MT">Viswa Prabha <font color="black" size="2">വിശ്വപ്രഭ <font color="black" size="1">talk 13:42, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * No idea :( Wat's aboput someone who knows both Wikipedia and Islam? Omer123Hussain? -- Tito ☸ Dutta 21:01, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Tito, umm isn't this about keeping date list in Wikipedia in general? -- AmritasyaPutra ✍ 04:45, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I meant in general. Actually, for Islamic festivals the notability is still better. Because the gulf countries, which house the majority of the population and have the major religious sites, happen to see the moon on a different day than other countries. And then there is always an issue of when to celebrate the Eid. With Hindu festivals that doesn't happen; except for maybe few festivals like the Datta Jayanti. I had written about it on User:Redtigerxyz's talk page which is archived now at User_talk:Redtigerxyz/Archive_19. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 05:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Hindu Festivals like Islamic festivals depend on location and might differ for two cities and difference is quite noticeable for cities in different time zones. See . Because India has the largest Hindu population, Indian dates are recorded in wikipedia. Then we have different conventions of Indian calendar in the North and the South . I remember there is at least 1 festival Maharashtra and the South celebrated on a different Georgian calendar day than the North, however I don't remember the festival or the year.  Redtigerxyz  Talk 06:24, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

FYI. Methinks you can go ahead with this.--regentspark (comment) 15:53, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Former good article vandalised: Kishore Kumar
This subject has been frequently vandalised lately. After ClueBot had rung the bell ten times over the last 24 hrs or so, I went in and semi-protected Kishore Kumar and List of songs recorded by Kishore Kumar. I'm not qualified to say what's a good and bad contribution from among the recent activity - I trust that you guys can and will take care of this much more efficiently. Thanks. Samsara (FA • FP) 12:58, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Online journalism in India
There is a discussion in talk:Online journalism in India about an article you may have interest in. The topic is Removal of mention of Amit Agarwal I.e. should this material be restored? Thank you Jim1138 (talk) 19:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Redirect up for discussion - Dhanada Kanta Mishra
See Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_August_5. An AfD for a non-notable unsuccessful election candidate ended up with the article being redirected to the constituency, despite WP:NPOL. - Sitush (talk) 18:33, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Himayatnagar (DAB page)
Himayatnagar, Telangana is similar to Himayatnagar, Hyderabad. Are these the same place? Is one supposed to be about the Vidhan Sabha constituency, as linked from Narayanguda? Should these be merged, as proposed by a template in 2011? If not, any advice in disambiguating the link on Asif Nagar or Narayanguda? <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">—PC-XT+ 22:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

NFA move request
Hi all! Am not getting any satisfactory answers in this move request and hence thought of pointing it here. Could you please opine at the Talk:National_Film_Awards_(India)? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:18, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Discussion of Rupesh Paul (Productions Limited)
Contributors to this WikiProject are invited to comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film. Cnilep (talk) 01:45, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Any one read Tamil?
File:ParthasarathyTemple EasternThoranaEntrance BeachRoad.jpg Can you please read the captions in the central part below each of those figures.-- Redtigerxyz Talk 06:04, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Pinging editors I suppose who can help  . §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 06:54, 7 August 2014 (UTC)


 * LINE 1: Sri Parthasarathy swami Thirukkoyil; LINE 2: Kizhakku thorana vaayil. Kailash29792 (talk) 08:23, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you need a translation or just a transliteration? The latter is what Kailash29792 has provided. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 09:51, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I would like a translation and I guess Redtiger wants that too. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:13, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems to translate to: "Sri Parthasarathy Swami Temple. Eastern Entrance Gate." Kailash29792 (talk) 12:30, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Uhhh! Khoda pahaad aur nikla chuha?!?! §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 15:15, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

That's what the board outside most temples say. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 20:40, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh! Wait! You have probably given the translation of the last line; red fonts yellow background. By "captions in the central part below each of those figures", I suppose Redtiger meant the white fonts ones with blue background. Those are the names of those figures and that's what he is after I guess. (Even if he is not, I am after it now.) §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:30, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Dharmadhyaksha, you read my mind. :) Thanks everyone for reading the other part, nevertheless. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 10:43, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Left to right. Balaram, Rukmini, Venkat Krishan, Satyaki, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha. Feel free to correct. - <span style="font:italic bold 11px Georgia, serif"> Vivvt  <small style="font-size:85%;">( Talk ) 18:58, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

P C Banerj*
This recent and remarkable AfD drew my attention again to this userpage/contributor and his contribution list. The bulkiest single augmentation I noticed was this one, to the article Sir Pramada Charan Banerjee. I was not so surprised to find that this was a copy-and-paste job, and dutifully reverted it. The result, with several numbered "footprints" (really), looked odd, so I did some tidying.

The "Sir" in Sir PCB seems to the institutionalized British honorific, and for that reason (as well perhaps as others) the article is mistitled. The man was often simply "P C" but often not; and, it seems, often "Pramada" often "Pramoda", often "Banerjee" often "Banerji". I'm ignorant of Indian nomenclature; which do you more knowledgable people think is the best option among the possible titles for the article? (Of course redirects can take care of the rest.) -- Hoary (talk) 08:09, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Moved to Pramada Charan Banerjee and a redirect created for P. C. Banerjee. If you want to create more redirects then that's up to you but the permutations, as you noticed, are very numerous. - Sitush (talk) 09:37, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the certainty here. Yes, I've also added redirects aplenty, because why not. -- Hoary (talk) 10:16, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Tejomay Bharat
Editors might want to add this to their watchlist, maybe even expand it, eg. Ditto Dinanath Batra who is trying to get rid of the teaching of foreign languages and the use of Urdu and English words in Hindi textbooks. Dougweller (talk) 16:08, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Nayee Braham drafts - socks or meat?
Earlier this month User:Davidwr mentioned several draft articles. Today I found a discussion at User talk:Sitush initiated by Anna Frodesiak which I followed up. Deleted that page as it was a copy of http://nayeebrahmins.hpage.com/ which I also found in other drafts and I suspecth might have something to do with these drafts. Earlier we had Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Brahmin nayee a page which was created as an article in March by User:Brahmin nayee. Still existing is User:NAYEE BRAHMINS/sandbox created in April by User:NAYEE BRAHMINS whose Draft:NAYEE BRAHMINS I've deleted today as also copyvio from the same site. We have User:Niyoginayeebramhana with Draft:Niyoginayeebrahmins. That was created last December. User:Nayar, Nayer caste created a page on the 21st this month which is now deleted as copyvio from the same site. We also have User:Vaidyanayeebrahmin which is another draft which I think has a bit of copyvio from still. I hope some of this makes sense. This could be one editor but it is just as likely to be multiple editors who think they are creating articles. Dougweller (talk) 14:06, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No comment? Dougweller (talk) 15:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I got a bit confused when I read your post but soon after I thought the users had been blocked, sorry. Someone certainly was. The drafts don't particularly matter if they're not indexed and provided that they're free of copyvio. If they do contain a bit, as you suspect, then can you not delete the things using your amazing superpowers? Are you involved?


 * That they might be people thinking that they're creating articles but in fact doing so in the wrong place strikes me as pretty unlikely but, hey, nothing should surprise me by now and you'll probably tell me that someone has done that thing before. - Sitush (talk) 16:14, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Rajasthan Patrika
Is the above newspaper a reliable one?--Skr15081997 (talk) 13:46, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes! it is reliable national daily newspaper in India. ''' C ute st Penguin (Talk) 13:49, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Is it? I have blocked an employee of the newspaper who was spamming links. Not only was he spamming them, including adding them when there were already links, he was adding copyvio from English language sources and then adding a patrika.com link that didn't even have the material in the copyvio. In any case there are usually good English language sources that we can use (Indian sources in English I mean). Dougweller (talk) 14:10, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * As per NEWSORG Rajasthan Patrika is very much acceptable as reliable source. Copyvio or spamming links can be a different thing but here we are talking about if it is a reliable reference or not. ''' C ute st Penguin (Talk) 14:19, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed. But wherever possible we should use English language sources, right? Dougweller (talk) 14:22, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I am expecting at least you understand me. Recently I nominated some articles for AfD about movies which was referenced from wordpress (self-published) unreliable source but got argued from another admin stating that the references are available in another language. I am amazed to see, if the references are available then why not the contributer or the support have supported the article. Personally I used Google translator and found truly different contents from those titles. ''' C ute st Penguin (Talk) 14:32, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Non-English language sources are an absolute last resort. See WP:NOENG. - Sitush (talk) 14:37, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Here's what's actually written on WP:NOENG, the page to which you point us: Citations to non-English sources are allowed. However, because this is the English-language Wikipedia, English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones, whenever English sources of equal quality and relevance are available. Quite aside from what follows it, "X is preferred over Y" is very different from "Y is/are an absolute last resort". Moreover, there's an implication here that a source that's in a language other than English is preferable to a lower-quality alternative that's in English. The main reasons why I make so little use of non-English sources are (i) my ignorance of most of these languages (including every Indian language, I regret to say) and (ii) my laziness as regards a minuscule minority of them. But I've happily cited sources in foreign languages in the past and I'll happily do so again. &para; I have no opinion about this particular newspaper. -- Hoary (talk) 07:52, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not getting into an argument about the semantics. Using non-English is a last resort, period. We do not use unless there is no suitable alternative. - Sitush (talk) 07:54, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * If you point people to a section of Verifiability (a policy page), misread it, and when politely corrected announce that your misreading is what "we" shall follow, you're heading for trouble. I suggest you turn off your computer for an hour or so, while you calmly reconsider the matter. -- Hoary (talk) 08:16, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Please don't suggest what I should do - it is patronising twaddle. If I see you add a non-English source when there is an English language source that is equivalent or better, I'm going to remove it. - Sitush (talk) 09:27, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Please point to any suggestion of mine that I would, or that others should, add a non-English source where an English alternative would be equivalent or better. -- Hoary (talk) 10:00, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that you had. Let me summarise the policy again: don't use non-English sources if there are equivalent or better English ones available. That is, use non-English sources only when there is no suitable alternative, ie: as a last resort. I really don't understand what your problem is but you're obviously not understanding me. - Sitush (talk) 16:07, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * [D]on't use non-English sources if there are equivalent or better English ones available: Yes, exactly. &para; Perhaps we differ on the meaning of "last resort". -- Hoary (talk) 22:22, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It would seem that we must differ on that meaning ... but I haven't got a clue why when there seems only to be one interpretation. Anyway, we're agreed. Neither of us has misinterpreted the policy and we're both in the same area as Dougweller. All I did was provide a link to support what Dougweller was saying. - Sitush (talk) 23:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Help requested with referencing
New user has requested help with two articles, Bidhu Bhusan Das and Prabhat Nalini Das. It seems that these are indeed notable people, but on-line coverage is limited. Print sources such as newspapers would of course be acceptable. Any assistance with locating sources would be welcome. JohnCD (talk) 21:56, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * For Bidhu Bhusan Das read "Bidhubhusan Das" and there are quite a lot of hits online. The problem is, most of them are snippet views here in the UK. Still, he was vice-chancellor of some (seemingly relatively minor) university for a couple of months and I think that alone probably makes him notable. - Sitush (talk) 00:31, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Dhanada Kanta Mishra redirect up for discussion
See Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_August_5. - Sitush (talk) 09:57, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * See Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:05, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, bloody hell! Thanks, Dharmadhyaksha. My brain is frying. - Sitush (talk) 10:08, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Indian Railways
Hello to all,

I have been creating several articles almost all of which are related to indian railways. I have come across two main problems.

Part One of which is WP:OR which has been the result of me simply photographing the train & noting down the details such as coach composition, although the newly launched trains have some sort of coach data available on the internet.

Part Two - There is no way to get any details of the locomotives used with it going to WP:OR.

Can any one come up with a solution??

Superfast1111 (talk) 17:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Varna as inherited etc
I know that there are some gurus who have said that varna is not inherited and that people have for centuries been misreading the shlokas etc. Does anyone know of a source that actually discusses this contention? Does anyone know the extent to which it is or is not a mainstream view? - Sitush (talk) 15:07, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have found on Google Books, you can verify here. ''' C ute st Penguin (Talk) 15:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The only varna that ever mattered was Brahmin. And, I never heard of someone who became a Brahmin by virtue rather than by birth (either in Shastras or in real life).  So, that shows pretty clearly what the 'mainstream view' is! Uday Reddy (talk) 20:40, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Cutest Penguin (great name), I'm afraid that I can't see that source here - all I get is the "about" page. Google Books doesn't always allow access to the same content from different places in the world. Uday, I understand what you mean but we're getting into problems at Talk:Varna (Hinduism) and really do need sources. I was hoping that there might be some out there that actually discuss the nature of inherited versus non-inherited varna in two different ways: one being as it appears on the ground, in sociological terms, and one as a theological abstract. I might be asking too much. - Sitush (talk) 00:34, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * If the question is whether Bhagavadgita 4:13 says that varna is determined by guna and karma (as oppose to birth), it clearly does. User:Devagyarishi238 is right about this point, even though he is not well-versed in the ways of Wikipedia.  I also think that this kind of thing would be said in tons of places in Upanishads (of which Bhagavadgita is considered a summary).  But Upanishadic scholars were renouncers who made up their own liberal haven, and didn't have much impact on the society and the practice.  Still, the fact that this liberal viewpoint existed in Hinduism should be documented in Wikipedia.  I will keep it in mind to look for sources. But, for the time being, I think User:Devagyarishi238's point should be allowed, suitably reworded.  Uday Reddy (talk) 09:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no-one is saying that it shouldn't be mentioned. The questions being asked really relate to weight and decent sourcing. An added complication is that, as with other texts in other religions, my understanding is that many Hindu texts are of uncertain origin and sometimes contradictory (either within themselves or, more usually, between each other). That's why we need to find a decent commentary that compares/contrasts. There must be one out there somewhere. I wonder if is around? - Sitush (talk) 10:01, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan's Indian Philosophy, Vol. 1 discusses the issue of caste through the ages. I jotted down some page numbers: -- Uday Reddy (talk) 10:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * pp 111-113 - caste in the Rig-vedic period (arya-dasyu division)
 * pp 132-133 - caste in the Brahmana period (varna)
 * pp 222-223 - caste in the Upanishads (the "liberal" viewpoint)
 * p 266, 498, 506 - caste in the Puranic period
 * p. 517    - caste in Manusmriti
 * p. 526, 570-571 - caste in Bhagavadgita
 * p. 581    - caste contrasted between Sankara and Ramanuja
 * "Varna is not inherited" is the view of Yudhisthira in the Mahabharata, when he distinguishes jati (by birth) and varna (by guna) in a sermon to someone I don't remember. Redtigerxyz Talk 13:37, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * On p. 222, Radhakrishnan states "Brahminhood does not depend on birth, but on character" and narrates the story of Satyakama Jabala. This is from Chandogya-Upanishad, and seems representative of Upanishadic thinking.  Thus, Satyakama was treated as a brahmin and given knowledge.  However, I didn't see any mention of Satyakama being sent back into the society and performing brahmanic functions. Uday Reddy (talk) 15:13, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, both. I'll have a read and see what comes out of it. Is it safe to assume that Upanishadic thinking is fairly commonly accepted? I'm a bit lost here and it really doesn't help that I've been struggling to find sources. - Sitush (talk) 23:09, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * "Commonly accepted" is not an easy characterization to agree with. If I tell any knowledgeable Hindu that this is what the Upanishads say and, therefore, right, they will have no choice but to agree.  Upanishads represent the ultimate knowledge.  On the other hand, the writ of Upanishads does not run in day-to-day life.  Upanishads are considered idealistic, not practical.  They are supposedly meant for vaanaprasthas, not grihasthas.  Buddha and Mahavira, being charismatic preachers, brought a lot of Upanishadic knowledge into daily lives, but they were branded heterodox.  Valmiki and Vyasa then put Upanishadic knowledge into the epics so that they could bring in liberalism while remaining orthodox.  Valmiki did not address the varna issue.  After his death, somebody added an uttar-kanda to Ramayana that said that Rama killed (assassinated?) a shudra doing tapsya, against his varnashram dharma.  Thus, Valmiki was defeated.  Vyasa seems to have addressed the varna issue, but only in the character of Yudhishthira who is regarded as an impracticably idealistic man.  So, well, you are facing the historic double think of Hinduism here.  It is not possible to make simplified statements. Uday Reddy (talk) 06:26, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You might also know that Upanishads are called Vedanta in modern times. To understand what I mean by Upanishads were not practical, you might read this story of Sankaracharya and Chandala.  Sankaracharya, the great Vedantic preacher himself, didn't see the need for putting that knowledge into practice until some brave chandala hit him on his head! Uday Reddy (talk) 06:40, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Here is another great example of Upanishads at work, Brahman is One, from Annamacharya, and an animation of the song . Uday Reddy (talk) 07:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * accepted most commonly but practiced not so commonly. Jabala is a famous instance, there are several others. Shankaracharya episode referenced above is probably the best example where it was accepted but he had to be reminded to practice it. -- AmritasyaPutra ✍ 08:53, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The arguments above including the story of Jabala are philosophical/mythological/religious arguments. I am not for a minute saying those arguments don't have a place on Wikipedia, but Varna like many other related concepts needs a multidisciplinary approach. For instance the article should be answering questions like what are the historical roots of Varna? Did shudra in Maurya and shudra in Gupta period mean the same thing. Mauryas, per Hindu sources, were shudras. Did this at all change their approach to Varna? And where exactly did untouchables fit in this framework? The article is crap as it is, but what is even more worrying is that all this effort is being wasted on discussing even more irrelevant stuff. 122.177.232.88 (talk) 21:17, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, I agree that the article is crap. The same applies to Kshatriya etc. But I can't really do much about it without sources and the religious aspect (as opposed to the social and political aspect) is something about which I am wary. I'm arguably pretty good on the British era, which had an obviously warped interpretation, but I really do not have a great grasp of the underlying religious principles and I'm afraid that when I read sources that do discuss those then either my brain gets screwed up with the constant assumptions that I actually already know something about it or the sources are pretty obviously not great. What I need is a sort of Hinduism for Dummies, just to give me a bit of a foothold ... but what would be better is if people could create a Hinduism for Dummies here on Wikipedia. I don't think I've seen it, partly because those articles that I do look at seem to make the same sort of assumptions. I'm not criticising anyone for their efforts but I'm a reasonably intelligent person and quite often I find myself lost when going through our articles about Hinduism. And, for the record, I can say the same regarding some other religions. - Sitush (talk) 00:44, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree it's difficult if you are looking at it through the prism of Hinduism. As you have already noted somewhere, Hindu texts end up contradicting themselves. However, a historical perspective makes things easier to grasp. Historians use Hindu texts too but they arrange it in a chronological order and then analyze religion as means of legitimizing political power or stabilizing existing socioeconomic order. For instance, Puranas written in post-Gupta refer to agriculture as an occupation common to all Varnas whereas Dharmaśāstra, written probably in Mauryan times, refers to agriculture as an occupation of Vaishyas. This difference, is attributed by historians, to the differing socioeconomic structures that existed in the two periods. Likewise, early Upanishads were written much before Varna became a rigid system of stratification and therefore appear to be more liberal. I am obviously not against the Varna article containing opinion of notable spiritual, semi-spiritual leaders like Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Gandhi, Ambedkar etc., who are quoted extensively in scholarly sources anyway, but I don't see the point in dissecting Upanishads, Mahabharata etc. to answer questions pertaining to Varna. 122.177.232.88 (talk) 01:26, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Mujuana - how many places? And Samastipur - district or town?
While stub-sorting I've found Mujauna, Samastipur (totally unsourced), a village in Bihar. I then found that there are articles Mujauna and Mujauna, Bihar, which have identical coordinates but different population statistics. In both cases the only reference is a generic link to the Indian census.

But while looking into this I also find that Samastipur seems to be largely about Samastipur district (both have the same population), rather than about the town which is the hq of the district.

I'm sure someone more familiar with Bihar can sort this all out. Good luck. Pam D  17:06, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The confusion over Samastipur seems to start with two edits by an editor who made no further edits, in September 2013, where the lead changes from "S.. is a town and a municipality in S... district" to "The District of S... was carved out of ...". But there have been many edits since then. Pam  D  17:13, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * ✅ Created a disambig page. utcursch | talk 22:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Samastipur?
Thanks for sorting out the many Mujuanas, but Samastipur remains a muddle. Pam D  23:24, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


 * . The article Samastipur was always about the town, but someone copy-pasted content from Samastipur district, and this was overlooked by other editors. utcursch | talk 00:37, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Japji Sahib
There is lot of text on this page in sections after the lead, which is reproduced from the source text. Shouldn't these kind of text belong to wikibooks etc ? -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 12:43, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah! Either there or at wikisource. I can't figure out the difference in two. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 05:01, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

en:wikt:Appendix:Indo-Iranian Swadesh lists (extended)
Please add variant word of you languages in this list.--Kaiyr (talk) 08:43, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * How can we add the variant words in the list? Isn't the list meant to be of words which and how Morris Swadesh wrote. For example if he has written a wrong Hindi language word for say "stomach", won't we writing the right word make his list wrong? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 05:11, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Bharat Ratna
There are speculations in the Indian media that on the occasion of independence day, the award should be declared. I request fellow editors to keep watch on the article for any vandalism. - <span style="font:italic bold 11px Georgia, serif"> Vivvt  <small style="font-size:85%;">( Talk ) 02:22, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ I am watching that .  C ute st Penguin  • Talk 05:18, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Though the award was not declared, thanks much for your time. - <span style="font:italic bold 11px Georgia, serif"> Vivvt  <small style="font-size:85%;">( Talk ) 09:57, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Aitiana (ਐਤੀਆਣਾ)
Dear India experts: Here's one more abandoned AfC submission about a village. Would anyone like to improve it? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 21:59, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne Delong, Aitiana is a census village ("Main village") with a pin code and bank. Definitely notable. I would at least retain it as a stub with the info we have. Not sure if the info in Afc is trustworthy.  -- Redtigerxyz  Talk 12:25, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

SPS as reliable for RSS affiliated orgs
There is currently a superficially symmetrical debate going on at Akhil Bharatiya Itihas Sankalan Yojana between myself and three other editors, namely AmritasyaPutra/Jyoti.mickey, Uday Reddy, and sarvajna. The debate concerns whether the organisation's mission statement, as on its website, can be used in Wikipedia's voice sans attribution. More eyes would be welcome. Vanamonde93 (talk) 10:33, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The section to which Vanamonde93 is referring is Objective of the organization in the opening sentence of the lead. Thanks. -- AmritasyaPutra ✍ 12:05, 19 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Subject debate is at Talk:Akhil Bharatiya Itihas Sankalan Yojana. (Vanamonde93, please try to give direct links of subject discussions in posts.) §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:16, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

ABISY article content at WP:ORN
All involved editors have been pinged: ORN link -- AmritasyaPutra ✍ 16:01, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

User:Prateekmalviya20/Democratic Alliance of Nagaland
Dear Indian Wikipedians, If anybody know further about this Indian State of Nagaland's related draft, please contribute!<font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="FF990">Prateek Malviya • ✉ • ✎ 03:12, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Biryani
Need a mediator at Biryani. has been removing books published by HarperCollins, Oxford University Press, University of California Press etc. calling them "cult books with no Authentic research", and replacing them with spicingyourlife.blogspot.de while adding content that is not supported even by that blog. . utcursch | talk 17:08, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing to worry about you can rollback. User is nothing more than a sockpuppets. You can ask any admin to block that account.  C ute st Penguin  ( Talk ) 17:19, 25 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah, didn't notice that. Thanks for the heads up. The user was blocked for one month; will block the user if s/he persists in such edits. utcursch | talk 17:24, 25 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Welcome Welcome.  C ute st Penguin ( Talk ) 17:26, 25 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "cult books with no Authentic research" :-O I'm so glad I found out! I'll rush off to clear out my bookshelves and have a good old fashioned book burning. ;-) --220  of  Borg 04:14, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Dhupguri subdivision
I have proposed Dhupguri subdivision in West Bengal for deletion. Comments are welcome on the talk page. - Chandan Guha (talk) 23:07, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The deletion tag has been removed by an anonymous editor (possibly the creator of the bogus article). It may be noted that the note for deletion on the article's talk page is as follows:
 * "This article appears to be a bogus one. In a Google search for "Dhupguri subdivision" it finds mention only in Wikipedia. This subdivision does not exist. There may be a political promise - even that does not find a mention on the internet. Those who wish to retain this article may particularly place their point-of-view."


 * An Administrator may please see and do the needful. If the processing needs to be altered please help. - Chandan Guha (talk) 14:50, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * You should follow the instructions at WP:AFD to nominate a deletion, this is not the place for it. Imc (talk) 17:04, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I find this a bit complicated. I should rather leave it as it is. - Chandan Guha (talk) 11:43, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It's not that complicated, it is long because there are alternatives offered for different situations. (Also when commenting here, bullets made with a "*" are for lists, they are unnecessary with indenting, and they confuse the sequential pattern of reading as with this comment.) Imc (talk) 09:09, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


 * V jazz, the creator of Dhupguri sub-division, has now marked the page as proposed. I believe that makes it eligible for a place in Wikipedia. (see Proposed Rourkela railway division). Thanks. - Chandan Guha (talk) 10:12, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Shyamsunder has initiated steps for deletion of the bogus article. Thanks. - Chandan Guha (talk) 16:07, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The page Dhupguri subdivision has been deleted. See - Articles for deletion/Dhupguri subdivision. - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:07, 25 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Those clicking on Dhupguri subdivision are sent by a redirect page to Dhupguri (community development block). All links to Dhupguri subdivision page have been reestablished. - Chandan Guha (talk) 04:58, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Uppara
Just found an IP editing this and reverted him as he'd removed Brahmins from the 4 castes mentioned in the article. However, some of it is copy and paste from Andhra Pradesh (India). Backward Classes Commission, K. N. Anantaraman - I don't know if that is copyright free or not. Dougweller (talk) 16:26, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Please take a look at this also - racing wooden elephants on wheels? I can't source that. Dougweller (talk) 16:29, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Indian government websites assert copyright, so I would assume that Indian government publications are also copyrighted. The BCC is a government body. - Sitush (talk) 16:30, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision: Final report?
Does anyone know where one may obtain the final accident report of the Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision in 1996? It was the third deadliest plane crash incident in the history of the world.

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 19:01, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

North Bengal
FYI information and comment. Some funny editing going on at North Bengal(NB). 'New' editor twice deleted most content from NB. This was done without any explanation and repeated after reversion by other editors, including me. See.

The NB page was left with only 2 links, to North Bengal, India, and to North Bengal, Bangladesh, both of which Bose also created, and appear to be simply cut and pasted from Nth Bengal.

I don't know if there is any reasonable rationale for this, as the editor has used no edit summaries, and ignored all talkpage messages.

Currently all three pages exist, so if there is no need for the two new 'daughter' pages, perhaps they should simply be deleted, leaving Nth. Bengal. If the new pages are kept, then a cut and paste repair of the edit histories needs to be done, to maintain attribution.

The editor also made unexplained/unsourced edits to Jalpaiguri, which has a history of sockpuppetry. AGF, I have only a suspicion at the moment but WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Sayan Basu/Archive may be related.--220  of  Borg 04:12, 28 August 2014 (UTC)


 * is obviously related to the WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Sayan Basu/Archive. He is also editing anonymously. He is distorting several North Bengal related pages and navboxes. With his edits many North Bengal pages are sources of misinformation. Any attempt to restore them is proving to be futile. - Chandan Guha (talk) 08:41, 28 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for you view. If you are familiar with the sockpuppeteer could you take out a wp:Sockpuppet investigation on 'Mohan Bose'? Bose and IP socks are currently active (within last 30 minutes anyway) at Jalpaiguri.--220  of  Borg 09:40, 28 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I am not well up with rules and regulations. - Chandan Guha (talk) 09:50, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No problem, but the only 'hard' evidence I have so far is edits to the same pages, over linking, plus totally ignoring talkpage messages. was involved in that SPI so they may be interested.--220  of  Borg 09:57, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
 * - If you carefully look at the edit pattern of Sayan Basu and its socks and Mohan Bose, there are many similarities, like insisting on mentioning Jalpaiguri as city, addition of factual errors, etc. This looks like a duck to me. I am bit busy now a days to initiate a SPI, by presenting evidences. Can you initiate SPI? Moreover, I have requested for full protection of Jalpaiguri (it was full protected for 2 months in past). Amartyabag   TALK2ME  10:06, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * thanks for your reply. I also did an RFPP for Jaipalguri, but I think Admin Ground Zero protected it independently. (twice now for short periods). Ground Zero has also started a disussion at Talk:Jalpaiguri with a very good analysis of the issues to be resolved. But I am the only other editor who has taken part, so far. :-/
 * I see that you also smell 'socks' so it's not just my imagination. I think it may be wise to wait for more evidence. I would be surprised if an actual mayor, as user Mohan Bose claims to be, was silly enought to behave in this manner. I did point out to them that they were showing themslves and their town in a poor light. Madhurima Nandy who has few edits and all seemingly Jalpaiguri related, and who even reverted Ground Zero(!), seems more like a meat puppet, as they actually talk back!, and have used a few summaries. Then there were the IPs, all in the 117.2##.### range, which seems to geolocate all in Kolkata. --220  of  Borg 12:46, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Sources in other languages?
I was wondering if anyone could look to see if there are any foreign language sources for the group Sabri brothers India, as their article is currently up for deletion. I didn't find anything that'd be usable as far as English language sources go, so I'm kind of doubtful about there being enough coverage in other languages to merit a keep. (Usually there'd be *something* out there.) I'd also like to ask if anyone can help either of the editors involved with the article out as far as notability and whatnot goes. They appear to be new users and I can't entirely tell if they're COI editors or just very excited about whatever they're writing about, but either way some help would be appreciated from people who are experienced with India-related subjects and are fluent in Hindi. (I say fluent as there is the possibility for FLS and they'd need someone who could help them weed through them effectively, as opposed to me running them through Google Translate or Google in general.) Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   11:57, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * the article has been already deleted by admin Bbb23.  C ute st Penguin discuss 15:57, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jagdish Batra
Dear India experts: Is this old AfC submission about a notable person? Should the article be kept and improved? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 22:45, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Jagdish Batra is not much notable as per my knowledge even I took the help of Google and didn't find significant coverage in public domain.  C ute st Penguin discuss 16:31, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you,, for taking the time to check this out. If no one edits it, it should be deleted soon as a stale draft.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 18:51, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Template:Welcome-India
Namaskar! members at WikiProject India. I am thinking to improve the Welcome-India template with Indian style or you can say Indian touch. Interested editors can give their feedback below. Thank you!  C ute st Penguin discuss 13:38, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Namaskar Cutest Penguin! You are free to Indianize the template. But is this template ever used? I can't find a single transclusion of it although its a 3 year old template. Check its usability and then put in your efforts. I use the welcome templates which are supported by WP:Twinkle. You might want to convince them to include this one too in it to start getting it used. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:11, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * My mistake! Twinkle has it incorporated. So disregard that. But is it ever used? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:14, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * It came about during the campaign that involved Zuggernaut, Yogesh etc. There were concerns about canvassing, POV-pushing and precisely how it could be deployed without making assumptions about people. - Sitush (talk) 10:15, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * So are country-specific welcome notes not to be used? Asking cause there are templates of other countries too, but I don't know about their usability. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:22, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Even I use TW to welcome users but now I started using Welcome-India template. Well, I will try to enhance the template without violating any wiki policy or promoting any language. Thanks!  C ute st Penguin Hangout 11:05, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Professor Gautam Chatterjee
Dear India experts: The page Gautam Chatterjee redirects to Gautam Chattopadhyay. However, the word "Chatterjee" doesn't appear in that article. Are these really the same person? The draft appears to have different information. If these are two different men, then the redirect will need to be deleted before the draft can be accepted. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 23:28, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "Chatterjee" is indeed the short form of "Chattopadhyay". Some people use a single form for their name and some use both.  I can't say much about this gentleman, however.  Don't know him. Kautilya3 (talk) 21:51, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Chattopadhyay & Chatterjee are same or you can say alternative of Chatterjee. It is alright to keep if the reference talk of any one of these.  C ute st Penguin Hangout 11:15, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Kautilya3 and Cutest Penguin. Looking at these two articles, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Professor Gautam Chatterjee and Gautam Chattopadhyay, would you agree that these are two different men who happen to have similar names?  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 11:29, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


 * It looks different to me, some general differences you can see is the DOB, birthplace and other details.  C ute st Penguin Hangout 11:33, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Good. I thought so, but I wanted to make sure, because if the draft is accepted the redirect would have to be replaced. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 11:37, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Lok Sabha constituency
The Lok Sabha constituencies are considered article or list? A majority of them are list in format but assessed as articles.--Skr15081997 (talk) 11:16, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


 * There is huge difference between List of constituencies of the Lok Sabha and Lok Sabha. Can you link that article to me?  C ute st Penguin Hangout 11:20, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * There are several pages. Take Araku (Lok Sabha constituency) for example. It has been assessed as stub. I am talking about the articles under Category:Constituencies of the Lok Sabha. BTW has the font changed or so?--Skr15081997 (talk) 11:39, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it consist of both .  C ute st Penguin Hangout 11:43, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is a good practice.--Skr15081997 (talk) 11:46, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the same but there is noway to inform (new) editors. Currently I cannot cite but still there are lots of categories exist as this one.  C ute st Penguin Hangout 11:48, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * It should be considered an article. They are in list format, because it is very easy to obtain the list of MP's on web. Getting the material for a prose is not so easy. I will compare with this situation with an article on say a movie star, which will contain some prose and a list of their movies. -- Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 12:38, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Google plus one.svg on Vigyani. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:02, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Kheri Ram Nagar
Dear India experts: Here's another village submission. It appears to be a real place. Shall it be accepted? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 01:52, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne Delong, IMO any real place named in a government site is notable as per Populated, legally-recognized places clause of WP:GEOLAND. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 05:57, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello, . I agree that Wikipedia should have an article about this place,  but none of the information in the article was supported by the references.  However, by spelling the name "Kheri Ramnagar" I found the village on a government census report, so I have fixed it up a little and accepted it.  It's not a very balanced look at this village, though.  Perhaps someone who is familiar with the area could check it over and make sure that I haven't added anything incorrect. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 12:14, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Number formatting
I have become aware that in India it is normal practice to format numbers as shown here:
 * "... a margin of 1,59,128 votes, getting a total of 4,06,931 ..."

Is there a MOS section on this, or is also acceptable? --220  of  Borg 07:37, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "... a margin of 159,128 votes, getting a total of 406,931 ..." (excess, to me at least, commas removed)
 * I prefer the uniform "powers of thousands" notation, like you have done. Kautilya3 (talk) 08:57, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


 * While there is a fixed convention to use lakh and crore in WP:MOSIN when using words, there is no fixed convention on where to put the commas when using numbers. But if lakhs and crores are used, the commas should also be used likewise to form "4 lakh 63 thousand 7 hundred 28" of the number 463728 i.e. 4,63,728 and not 463,728. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:05, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


 * We've had this discussion time and again. I thought that the consensus was to try to avoid using the Indic style because it just confuses people, that most Indians understand the Western style but few non-Indians understand the native style. IIRC, there was some support also for parenthetical "translations" when lakh and crore were used. MOSTIES is only guidance and is a damn nuisance in this particular instance, as is evidenced by the number of times this question keeps arising - people just do not get it. - Sitush (talk) 10:13, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Well Sitush, its right that when the word "lakh" is used it should be followed by "(one hundred thousand)" and wikilink it as lakh on first occurrence. But I don't recall the comma issue being discussed. What do the European pages follow in the countries where, and . are interchanged in currency format? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:18, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Well at least now I can see why it's used that way, thanks for the explanation. Somewhat reminiscent of Pounds, shillings and pence, but I didn't want to cause a controversy!
 * I dont think I've come across any page other than India related ones where anything other than 1,000,000.00 (for one million) style formatting is used.--220  of  Borg 13:55, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Dharmadhyaksha, it is only recently that I checked out the European "." vs "," situation at WP:MOSNUM or similar and it seemed to be quite specific that the former is not to be used. That query of mine came about because of a newbie editor who was creating articles relating to Bosnian places but it does rather scupper those who still insist on using the Indic style of numbering. - Sitush (talk) 06:54, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

, I've checked and we should not use the Indian comma delimitation despite MOS:TIES. See Group digits in Western thousands-based style (e.g., 30,000,000; not 3,00,00,000) at WP:NUMERAL, which also gives advice regarding the use of crore etc. If there is some India-specific style guide that says otherwise, I think we need to fix it. - Sitush (talk) 10:43, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I've just amended the guideline wording here. - Sitush (talk) 10:51, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, good that we have both guidelines say same things now. Thanks for that Sitush. But i can't see a reason for using western thousand based style in numericals. Is that discussed somewhere in past or did you mention it here and i overlooked it? While we are using lakh, crore system, i think the same style of commas should be used. It doesn't make sense to have commas after every three digits when in prose the words change after every two digits. (It goes, thousand, ten thousand, lakh, ten lakh, crore, ten crore, so on...) §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 15:10, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm just quoting the MOS. We have had discussions in the past here but the MOS, which applies across the entire English Wikipedia and specifically refers to the South Asian situation, is clear. I think you'd need to raise any issue at the relevant MOS talk page. I can sort of see why you might think mixing comma styles with crore etc might be confusing and inconsistent but, frankly, I think that given our target audience it is less confusing than the alternative. I'd actually favour abandoning the use of crore and lakh entirely for that reason but I know it will never happen. - Sitush (talk) 15:21, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Sitush. That change makes things a lot clearer. I'm on the side of keeping crores and lakhs because Indian sources usually exclusively use those. If, for example, our article says !50,000 but a source says 1.5 lakhs - without explanation - that may confuse a reader who happens to be looking for verification. If we say 1.5 lakhs (150,000), that's a lot clearer. --regentspark (comment) 16:32, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Women in Law and Litigation
Members at Wikiproject India are requested and welcome to improve the article Women in Law and Litigation. Thank you!  C ute st Penguin Hangout 16:37, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Deva Soye
While working on the unreferenced articles backlog (it's really long!) I stumbled across the article Deva Soye, which is about a purported tradition where starting "auspicious works" are prohibited from August to November. I cannot find any references on this tradition, and the original author has not edited for a year. My question to all the India experts out there is, have any of you heard of Deva Soye? Altamel (talk) 04:12, 6 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Altamel, this source mentions a little bit about the practice. I think the above article should be merged to Chaturmas which has more coverage regarding this topic.--Skr15081997 (talk) 15:57, 6 September 2014 (UTC)


 * The article lacks significant coverage in the reliable sources, I am going to tag Afd.  C ute st Penguin Hangout 04:42, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Akhil Bharatiya Itihas Sankalan Yojana
Once again, more scrutiny would be welcome here. I posted here previously, and the input was useful, but apparently insufficient to end the debate. If this fails, DRN would seem to be the only option. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:39, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The discussion was on this edit. It got derailed. I have separated the newly appended discussion into a separate section. Vanamonde93, you may want to check that. -- AmritasyaPutra ✍ 06:57, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * That was the old discussion, yes, but there are a host of issues that remain unresolved all over the talk. Vanamonde93 (talk) 13:44, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Naming convention
I moved Ibrahimpatnam, Krishna to Ibrahimpatnam, Krishna district, as I thought Krishna is a river name and also confuses it with the district Krishna district. Can you guide me on naming convention of Indian villages/towns with same name and different villages in different districts. I moved some more pages in the same way because like <village name, Guntur> -> <village, Guntur district> as Guntur is a disambiguate page and it may refer to city. But the village is in district. Any help?--Vin09 (talk) 09:50, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The article you moved, lacks references and fails WP:V. My suggestion, avoid moving article if in case you are not sure.  C ute st Penguin Hangout 13:49, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * That's ok but my question is if it is verifiable, then how to name it?
 * You did the right thing. Ibrahimpatnam, Krishna district is the standard form that WP uses for disambs. The term 'district' is often added on even when not necessary (e.g. the unnecessarily long North 24 Parganas district) but it is of course needed here; as is the disamb river for the river after which it is named. Imc (talk) 16:51, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks.--Vin09 (talk) 17:30, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Jalpaiguri disruption
The disruptive editing at Jalpaiguri mentioned above at 'North Bengal' has started again. See 220  of  Borg 14:09, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You can either remove or revert it since the entire newly added content is unreferenced.  C ute st Penguin discuss 15:28, 1 September 2014 (UTC)


 * :-) Well, naturally, but the more editors involed the better! I'll know I've done the right thing when Bose, a sock or a related IP vandalises my userspace pages. --220  of  Borg 18:38, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The editor in question has been temporarily blocked for a week and the page fully protected. 

This is the 7th time this page has been protected this year, but never before. Any ideas what has triggered this? Political turmoil perhaps? --220  of  Borg 01:26, 2 September 2014 (UTC)


 * It is good to see that some progress has taken place in bringing about normalcy in the Jalpaiguri page. Now that Admin Ground Zero is taking interest progress should be fast. Jalpaiguri is at the core of Sayan Basu/ Mohan Bose / their anonymous edits, but the other pages / navboxes being distorted also need attention – Template:Jalpaiguri district, Template:Jalpaiguri topics, Template:Municipalities of West Bengal and so on. Ground Zero has also taken up the page Jalpaiguri district. The page Dhupguri subdivision was deleted. See - Articles for deletion/Dhupguri subdivision. Now, those clicking on Dhupguri subdivision are sent by a redirect page to Dhupguri (community development block). All links to Dhupguri subdivision page have been re-established. Dhupguri subdivision redirect page needs to be deleted. - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:45, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Admin User:RegentsPark has also taken an interest and commented at Talk:Jalpaiguri.--220  of  Borg 01:37, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

I have begun a discussion on the article's talk page about edits. Edits should be discussed there and consensus established before being made. The editor or editors who are making edits that violate WP:V and WP:MOS are: Ground Zero | t 10:04, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Madhurima Nandy
 * User:Mohan Bose
 * User:V jazz
 * User:Anjali mj

Daying Ering
Hi. Just had a request via #en-wikipedia-help for a biography of Daying Ering, of the "Ering Commission', the North East Frontier Agency, and the Daying Ering Wildlife Sanctuary (there are also a number of schools named after him). He seems to be quite notable, but also looks like a biography to do him justice would need access to offline book sources. I'm trying to get the helpee to request the article at WP:RA, but he's rather confused about Wikipedia so I don't know if it will happen. Either way, I just though I'd mention the request here as well. Revent <b style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#006400">talk</b> 10:19, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * How about starting one-liner stub and then letting even the requester edit it? That way they can add all the necessary stuff and we can of course wikify it. Refs §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:41, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Centralised naming discussion - Firozpur/Ferozpur
We have various articles that currently use the spelling Firozpur in their titles. Examples are Firozpur, Firozpur district and Firozpur Road. Those articles seem to say that the official spelling is Ferozpur and there has recently been a query regarding which of these spellings best meets the requirements of WP:COMMONNAME.

Since they are a few articles involved, I think it better to have a centralised discussion here. I'm going to leave notes on the talk pages of the three linked articles above, directing people to this discussion. If anyone knows of any other affected articles then please could they do the same. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 10:53, 10 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I've notified Talk:Firozpur Cantonment also. It is worth bearing in mind that this issue first raised its head again as a consequence of people messing about with the Indic scripts on some of those pages. I ended up removing them entirely, pending some sort of agreement about which were the correct spellings etc. - Sitush (talk) 11:18, 10 September 2014 (UTC)


 * "Ferozepur" . The reasons people are messing with the scripts is a) the Indo-Pak problem b) the Punjab-Rajasthan problem, c) The division of the district. Lindashiers (talk) 17:34, 10 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily. See WP:COMMONNAME. - Sitush (talk) 17:37, 10 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Ferozepur is also the more common spelling - a Google search (including books) indicates that. utcursch | talk 17:42, 10 September 2014 (UTC)


 * "If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change." Lindashiers (talk) 17:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Indian Railways uses Firozpur.--regentspark (comment) 18:09, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Aadhaar Problem
There has been long term disruption on Aadhaar, as well as many other related articles like Voter ID (India), and more. Some of them like List of Indian states by Aadhaar generation were turned into redirect.(to Unique Identification Authority of India) I just made Aadhaar-enabled payment system a redirect too.

On these articles as well as some other related articles, has added massive amount of seditious, POV and promo content.

Although I have cleaned up a lot compared to 179,000 bytes of unnecessary expansion, but Aadhaar also remained a redirect until the user has returned.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 15:50, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * has just restored the redirect, but we will have to see if the user is going to revert or not. My guess is that he will surely give a try!  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log)
 * I have just reported the user at WP:AIV as reports at WP:ANI have been futile. The user has gone beyond control. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 16:05, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah I had seen that. Got that NB on my watchlist, knew that they are going to decline the report because user has been editing for months. Lets just wait now.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 16:24, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed, have reviewed the edits. RaviShyam Bangalore is a menace to the stability of Wikipedia and should be site-banned. Lindashiers (talk) 17:39, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Additionally, UIDAI was being edited by 2 IPs "120.57.224.3" and "59.177.200.223" which are anons for 's promotional edits. Lindashiers (talk) 17:46, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe he was practicing block evasion for future, I had seen 59./223. on some of these Aadhar pages that has been turned into redirect. If he had made those edits with his account, they would've remained for a longer period.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 17:58, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Page fully protected for now.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 03:19, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Suspected Tamil Nationalist sockpuppet
This user Abinkose has been pushing Tamil Nationalist POV to articles like Malayalam. The user's activity so much resembles that of the notorious sockpuppet Kalarimaster. Pls see Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Kalarimaster. Can any admin around here please check and do the needful. Snowcream (talk) 14:46, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Jaganmohan Reddy
Anybody interested in Telugu politics may wish to take a look at this. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:14, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * what I can see in the revision that the contents added by you is not referenced which is more luckily to be removed or revised as it is already done by other editor. It is requested that please avoid adding unreferenced materials. &#8212;  C ute st Penguin Hangout 14:22, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * come again? I reverted to the consensus version, because a new editor added approximately 12kb of content mostly without sources. I "added" nothing, and reverted per BRD. My removal was later repeated by Sitush. So what are you talking about? Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:17, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I think CP has just misread the diff, seeing it in reverse. I've done the same thing in the past. It was very embarrassing ;) - Sitush (talk) 20:36, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I seem to remember one of those. Ended with the pair of us swearing at each other? Anyhow, if that's the case, then no worries, CP. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * CP has become a member of a very exclusive club. Nearly as exclusive as the list of admins who have accidentally blocked themselves ... but a lot less exclusive than the number of people with whom I have exchanged "naughty" words. - Sitush (talk) 21:00, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * haha! thanks for understanding. &#8212;  C ute st Penguin Hangout 15:15, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Placename query
Are Kuruvattor (tor) (created 25 August 2014) and Kuruvattoor (toor) (also 25 August) possibly the same place?--220  of  Borg 00:20, 10 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh dear, what about Kuruvattur (created 11:26, 12 December 2008) possibly the earliest page created about this 'place'? The two pages above from 25 Aug. were both created by new editor.
 * Silly if this is some disagreement about how an 'Indian language' placename is transliterated into English. :-\ --220  of  Borg 04:12, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

As there haven't been any comments about this, and it appears that all 3 pages are about the same place, I have redirected the two 'forks' back to the parent Kuruvattur article, incorporating some useful additions from Kuruvattoor. --220  of  Borg 21:11, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Creation of many "List of village in xxx block xxx district" pages
has created a slew of pages (≈16) with the above title format. The most recent is likely to be List of village in Sahdei Buzurg block vaishali district. I can't see if these have any real use, just bringing it to the attention of editors more knowledgeable about Indian issues than me.--220  of  Borg 04:39, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * If you can see even I have also created 2 pages namely List of mandals and villages in Krishna district and List of mandals and villages in Guntur district. They are of use only if arranged properly, but the above page which you stated List_of_village_in_Sahdei_Buzurg_block_vaishali_district I don;t this they are of use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vin09 (talk • contribs) 04:49, 13 September 2014‎

Requested move for Operation Polo
I hope this is the right place. If not, apologies. Publicising request to move: Operation Polo to Indian integration of Hyderabad. See Talk:Operation_Polo. Any suggestions for other places to publicize this are also welcome. Kingsindian (talk) 21:25, 13 September 2014 (UTC)