Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship/Melsaran

Melsaran's edit stats using "wannabe Kate" tool as of 10:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC):

run at Fri Aug 17 10:23:49 2007 GMT

Category:	74 Help:	7 Image talk:	1 Image:	17 Mainspace	3564 MediaWiki talk:	6 Portal:	4 Talk:	331 Template talk:	70 Template:	485 User talk:	1834 User:	418 Wikipedia talk:	140 Wikipedia:	1743 avg edits per page	1.64 earliest	09:47, 28 January 2007 number of unique pages	5296 total	8694 2007/1 	2 	2007/2 	143 	2007/3 	262 	2007/4 	314 	2007/5 	846 	2007/6 	2086 	2007/7 	2279 	2007/8 	2762

Mainspace 52	Live Earth 39	List of Internet slang phrases 28	Tokio Hotel 26	Pseudo-anglicism 17	Dutch alphabet 15	Sober (Kelly Clarkson song) 14	Bill and Tom Kaulitz 14	Classes in World of Warcraft 14	Marco Borsato 13	The Beatles 12	Wikimedia Commons 12	TROS 11	Westlife 11	Durch den Monsun 11	Netherlands Public Broadcasting

Talk: 10	September 11, 2001 attacks 8	Democratic Party (United States) 8	Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki 7	Bill and Tom Kaulitz 7	Last of the Time Lords 7	Dutch language 7	Dutch alphabet 7	FTR (bus) 6	LOL 5	Tokio Hotel 5	Infidel 5	People's Party for Freedom and Democracy 5	Disappearance of Madeleine McCann 5	Cologne 4	Parody of Wikipedia

Category: 3	All articles with broken or outdated citations 3	Tokio Hotel songs 3	DS games 3	NDS games 2	Articles with broken citations 2	Orphaned fairuse images 2	Articles with broken or outdated citations 2	Musician 2	Nintendo DS games with different names 2	User la-N 2	Nintendo DS games 2	DS diff 2	Ds diff 2	NDS diff 2	Nds diff

Help: 2	Magic words 2	Block and unblock Image: 2	Dopamine cover rect.jpg 2	Smilin Jack.jpg MediaWiki talk: 2	Tagline 2	Monobook.css

Template: 8	Wel 6	Collapse 5	PRODWarning 5	CSD Redirects 5	Db-policy 4	Uw-biog4im 4	Holiday2 4	User apostrophe 4	CSD Images-media 4	Wrongtitle 4	NEXTWEEKYEAR 4	User philosophy 3	User theretheirthey're 3	Citations broken 3	Wel/doc

Template talk: 9	Welcome 5	Banned user 4	Cite web 3	Infobox CVG/Syntax Guide 2	Cleanup 2	Editor review sticker 2	Unreferenced 2	User theretheirthey're 2	Request quotation 2	Welcomeip 2	User warning-mentalhealth

User: 77	Melsaran 57	Melsaran/test 25	Melsaran/monobook.js 15	R/EFD 13	Melsaran/UBX/main 9	Melsaran/Bored 6	Melsaran/sandbox 6	Melsaran/UBX/nintendo fanboy 6	Melsaran/nextweek 5	Melsaran/spoiler 5	Melsaran/english 5	Melsaran/wel 4	Sergii-rachmonov/Soviet anthem parody 4	Melsaran/UBX/com 3	Minutes to Rise

User talk: 264	Melsaran 11	JackLumber 11	Minutes to Rise 10	Dmcdevit 7	Joblf 6	Can't sleep, clown will eat me 6	BigNate37 5	Gilabrand 5	Tony Sidaway 5	AzaToth 5	Fan1318 5	Tobias Conradi 5	Melsaran/test 5	WJBscribe 4	ILike2BeAnonymous

Wikipedia: 98	Requests for arbitration/CharlotteWebb/Workshop 49	Help desk 40	Administrator intervention against vandalism 36	Requests for page protection 33	Usernames for administrator attention 32	Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 August 4 32	Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents 32	Sandbox 31	Editor review/Melsaran 29	Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 August 7 29	Requested moves 24	Articles for deletion/Etienne Kuypers 20	Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Workshop 19	Village pump (policy) 18	Village pump (proposals)

Wikipedia talk: 18	WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Twinkle/to do 12	Criteria for speedy deletion 9	Flagged revisions 7	Deletion process 6	Administrators 5	Changing usernames guidelines 4	List of non-admins with high edit counts 3	Articles for creation 3	WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Twinkle 2	Double redirects 2	Requests for comment/Rhode Island Red 2	Username policy 2	Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions 2	WikiProject Wikipedians against censorship 2	Template messages/User talk namespace

User:Walton One support discussion
The following discussion appeared following User:Walton One's support statement, which can be seen in its original formatting at this diff.


 * 1) Support - I disagree with the opposers. Although admins should have a substantial number of mainspace contributions, extensive article-writing is not a pre-requisite for adminship. Adminship is mainly about maintenance, and those with extensive experience in maintenance tasks (as this candidate has) are ideally qualified for adminship. Incidentally, he also has 2000 more mainspace edits than I did when I passed RfA. WaltonOne 13:20, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The whole thing about adminship being about maintenance is such a lie, and I'm sick of it being repeated all over the place. Admins have the power to close AfDs and in the process discount opinions they feel carry less weight and are invalid; they have access to deleted pages which contain sensitive information; they are able to decline block requests.. etc etc. This is not the role of a 'janitor' or similar, it is more akin to the role of a judge or a police officer. And that requires evidence of thought and judgement.. which a few thousand gnomey edits do not show. Kamryn · Talk 13:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * So says the non admin... I've been an admin for nearly 10 months, and it is a janitor not a judge as Kamryn falsely indicates. Let me repeat something I've said many times: article writing has nothing to do with being an admin. I've never, ever had to use admin tools to write an article, and I never will. It's sad that non admins like Kamryn have such a warped view of adminship, and they feel it's necessary to impose this view on others, without having experienced being one first.  Majorly  (talk) 14:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm merely expressing the position of amdinship that has been explained to me, by admins, in places like this. If you seriously consider closing things like, for example, the Daniel Brandt AfD to be 'janitor work' that doesn't require any kind of thought or judgement then you are probably a very awful admin. Kamryn · Talk 14:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But I get what you're saying. Only admins should be able to pick other admins. Perfect. Kamryn · Talk 14:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I don't see anywhere where the candidate has indicated they'll close Deletion reviews. Or even AfDs. The things that have been mentioned don't require judgement - they require common sense and a pair of eyes to read our policies and guidelines, and a brain to remember them with.
 * I'm sorry? I wasn't aware that we were granting limited adminship here. Didn't you hear the news? Being an admin gives you access to all areas of adminship. I didn't see anywhere where the candidate said he wouldn't close AfDs either. Kamryn · Talk 14:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Admins tend to stick to certain areas (of course, you wouldn't know that, and none of those areas are article writing). If the candidate hasn't said they'll do something, they probably won't. And even if they did, they'd start on the more easier closes. The example you picked is one most admins wouldn't have dreamed of going near.
 * Don't put words in my mouth. I said that you can only know what being an admin is like if you are one or if you have been one before. To say the things you have said makes it very clear to me that you have no idea what it is like being one.  Majorly  (talk) 14:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh come on. You clearly implied that my view as a non-admin is clearly irrelevant, as I don't know what it's like. Kamryn · Talk 14:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I admire your view, very much. However, it is completely wrong :) And to say the view you don't agree with is a lie indeed makes your comment less relevant. I'm also interested to know how you worked out how article writing = judgement.  Majorly  (talk) 14:31, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This is very much the wrong place for this. Kamryn · Talk 14:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * My comments weren't intended to spark this argument again (which, incidentally, has been discussed many times on WT:RFA). To clarify, I do have some sympathy with Kamryn's viewpoint that admins need to have a sufficient level of good judgment to be able to close AfDs and DRVs tactfully. However, I tend to agree with Majorly that article-writing is not the only way to demonstrate good judgment. A strong candidate whose mainspace contribs tend towards wiki-gnomishness should not be penalised, especially if they have extensive contributions to XfDs and other community discussions. WaltonOne 14:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The preceding discussion appeared following User:Walton One's support statement, which can be seen in its original formatting at this diff.