Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Gundagai editors

Statement of concern by User:Rednblu
So often we forget that we all descended from the same group of fewer people than would fill the average professional football stadium. The "aborigines" got to Australia first, and their European cousins came in later. The aborigines remember over the many years a painful event that happened generations ago in a vague area of land. It is the nature of humans to let their traumatic places of memory free again into the wild: Machu Pichu, Troy, the Garden of Eden, Olduvai Gorge, Coolac,. . . .  Some of them were found again; some were not. An Australian environmental impact report characterized the Gundagai site this way: "The exact location of the possible Aboriginal massacre site could not [be] determined." (at 36). And I thank User:NuclearUmpf's Update for starting me on this train of thought. So as technology reunites us on more and more projects, can we find a place for aboriginal citations? --which surely are the most ancient citation WP:V and WP:RS methods that we have in common. Perhaps Wikibooks would do. And of course, we may find some Wikipedia variety of WP:V and WP:RS along the way if we are patient. What do you think? --Rednblu 05:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not exactly clear what it is you are trying to cite. See Requests for arbitration/Gundagai editors/Evidence.  Two people, a Johneen Jones of Gundagai and Neville Williams, an Aboriginal elder whose grandfather came from the district, have asserted there was a massacre.  Hence it is described (as quoted above) by the RTA as a "possible masssacre".  No archeological evidence has been found to date to support the massacre.  There appears to be no contemporary records by Europeans of the massacre, despite the fact that other massacres at the time (1830s) were documented by Europeans, eg the Myall Creek massacre, the Gippsland massacres and others listed at List of massacres of indigenous Australians.  The representatives of the local Indigenous population do not seem to be fully aligned with Neville Williams assertions  and  - the latter including the comment "There were issues of cultural practices where it's courtesy of people coming into other areas ... we're a land council, we have a boundary and what we expect of other people, the courtesies towards us we actually practice and we will not be entering into other people's areas or other land council boundaries,"  ... .  The Gundagai Mayor asserts that the only person claiming there is a massacre in Gundagai is Ms Jones.  What would the entry in Wikibooks look like?  What ancient (? 1830s is not ancient in my view?) citation are you representing at Wikibooks?  If there is an archaeological finding, it will be written up and we can cite it.  If there were assertions by the local Land Council (that were published) likewise.  The otherwise unsupported claims by two people do not make a massacre in my mind; the RTA are following up to further investigate their calims because it would be of significance if there had been a massacre and the site would need to be managed appropriately.  I do not understand how you can promote unverified assertions on Wikipedia or associated projects; to my understanding it is out of the scope of the project.--Golden Wattle  talk 20:36, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Everyone involved in this arbitration has expressed sufficient sensitivity to the history and heritage of Australia's indigenous people. If anything, concern for the subject and the desire to correct systemic bias have led the involved editors to err on the side of lenience and forgiveness toward one user who holds both Wikipedia and its contributors in unmitigated contempt.  Durova  01:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

ABC website post
Note ABC Online guestbook post from somebody claiming to be Johneen Jones. It uses exactly the same text as has been recently posted to talk pages recently. Johneen Jones was mentioned in an ABC news story in September 2005 where the Mayor of Gundagai specifically failed to endorse her version of events --Golden Wattle  talk 20:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Another One
Not sure if this is the best place to list this, but we now have 144.138.156.26 as seen here on the VP. Chris857 (talk) 03:15, 22 April 2012 (UTC)