Wikipedia talk:Requests for checkuser/Case/Kamosuke

Followup moved from main page.


 * Thank you, but I believe you're only half done. Be sure to check HSL group right above, because they are Kamosuke group's opposing meatpuppets/sockpuppets.  And they've been equally disruptive.  Thank you.--Endroit 00:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I didn't write in the same article in the same time or in extended period of time with Shougiku Wine. Please read history of Shougiku Wine and me. Why do you think Shougiku Wine and me a grops of sockpuppets ? > Mackensen Mythologia 04:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppet findings are based not just on edits but on a technical analysis of the IP addresses used by the different accounts. I suppose there is some other reason why Mythologia and Shougiku Wine have been using the same computer? Thatcher131 (talk) 05:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Using Same computer? Please retest IP's of Shougiku Win and me. I have never used my computer with others. I'm contracting with huge Internet provider and it assignes IP addresses dynamically. It will be easy to know that I am assigned IP addresses dynamically if you check my IP's. So if using same provider, it very occasionally occers that different people use same IP's in diffrent time. But it never occers different people use same IP in the same time because it assignes IP address individually. Mythologia 05:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have read some of Shougiku Win's edits, in fact I had not read his edits yet. And I think he and me are very different in style. I don't have a faculty to use 2 type of writing styles. Mythologia 07:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The confirmed sockpuppet accounts have been blocked. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjo e  15:54, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Jesus, you've already perm blocked them? This is a hideous abuse of admin authority.


 * What exactly is meant by "It seems quite possible"? The only result that could conclusively determine sockpuppetry is that they share the exact same IP address. Please state so if this is really the case. If they only share the same remorthost, then it's way too premature to perm block them as they could be simply using the same major internet service provider that assigns dynamic IPs to its members (quite possible if they live in populous areas such as Tokyo and Osaka).
 * Even if they did have multiple accounts, that still isn't a sufficient reason to block them immediately on its own since having multiple accounts itself is not violation of any policies or guidelines. Unless you provide evidences for specific abuse of multiple accounts such as evading 3rr block and multiple voting in polls, blocking is not justifiable.
 * Revert wars don't occur with only one side reverting. Yet Nihonjoe almost exclusively keep blocking and requesting CU of the group of Japanese editors while doing nothing on the opposing group of Korean editors who are at least as much guilty as them such as Appleby, Good friend100, and Dollarfifty.
 * Nihonjoe himself has been involved in the editing of many of those articles that have been the ground of edit wars between Japanese and Korean editors, and he has been consistently supporting the latter group. Also he has protected some of those pages at versions favorable to the Korean pov that he pushes, a conduct obviously against the page protection policy.


 * Somebody has got to put an end to this madness. --Saintjust 20:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

If you read Mackensen's comments carefully, he limited his report to 3 confirmed cases of sockpuppetry; that is, use of multiple accounts by the same user, confirmed by an analysis of the IP addresses used. Confirmed is a much higher standard than Likely or any of the other formulations typically used. If you feel you must press Mackensen for an explanation, go ahead, but the actual evidence (server logs revealing IP addresses) will not be revealed under any circumstances. The existence of dynamic IP addresses comes up all the time and the checkusers are experienced in considering that. I do not have the information in this specific case but I am aware of other cases where an IP address hosts user A, then user B, then user A again; dynamic addresses are not likely to flop back and forth between two users several times in the same day.

Regarding the use of multiple accounts, since these three sets of sockpuppets have edited the same articles, they have broken the rules and lost the privilege of using multiple accounts.

Regarding the edit dispute, a checkuser request has also been filed on the "other side" of the edit war on Japan. It will be dealt with by the checkusers according to their discretion. Checkuser is neither fast nor easy, and the checkusers are highly trusted and experienced wikipedians who are putting their own interests aside to offer some of their time to the community.

Regarding your other allegations against Nihonjoe, checkuser is not the place to discuss them.

Finally, I don't see that you have standing to complain in any case. Your own use of the edit summary (rvv) in a content dispute is inappropriate, and I suggest you focus on working with the other editors on the talk page of the article rather than continuing to protest this rather ordinary and typical case. Thatcher131 (talk) 20:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I only blocked the confirmed cases, which is hardly an abuse of admin authority, especially when the confirmed socks are being abusive (round-robin reverts, etc.) I'm more than willing to let them back as long as they agree to play nicely. As it is, they've done almost nothing but cause grief to those editing Japan- and Korea-related article in which they've participated. There's no place on Wikipedia for people whose only apparent goal is to push their particular brand of POV (whether on the Japanese side or the Korean side), and who refuse to make a good faith effort to "play nicely" with other editors. In my experience with these individuals (or not, as the case may be), I've seen very little in the way of productive contributions to the site. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjo e  21:41, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, it should be noted that the Checkuser for the "Korean" editors (who may or may not actually be Korean) is still pending. If it comes out that some of them are confirmed socks, too, I'll be blocking them as well. And, it should be noted that I've dealt with people on both sides of this issue, been accused of being pro- and anti-Japanese and Korean (as well as accused of being a Korean), and been shown to be fair on all sides. My ultimate goal is to have neutral, well-balanced articles that are fair to all sides. If you have any specific issues, please bring them to my talk page and I'll be happy to address them. As Thatcher13 has indicated, this isn't the best place to discuss these issues. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjo e  21:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * After looking at the blocks I do think it is incorrect to block all the accounts. Generally the socks are permanently blocked while the main account gets a short block for disruption and a strict warning not to do it again.  (If there's no clear main account then ask which one they want.)  It is very rare that both the puppet master and the puppets will be permanently blocked, it usually only happens after long abuse and such a block should definitely be reviewed at ANI. Thatcher131 (talk) 21:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I've posted a note to that effect on each talk page. Once they reply, I'll unblock the appropriate account. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjo e  22:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Super. Thatcher131 (talk) 22:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I wonder whether the blocked people can reply 日本穣 while they are blocked. If they can, please forget this comment.--Mochi 16:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Blocked users can post to their own user and talk pages and if they set their accounts up with an e-mail address, can use wikipedia e-mail as well. Thatcher131 (talk) 16:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Mythologia and Shougiku Wine
It seems Mythologia and Shougiku Wine are different person. Mythologia is interested in Manga, and Shougiku Wine is interested in music. The articles both people contributed are Liancourt Rocks(Takeshima in Japanese and Dokto in Korean) and Sea of Japan. These articles are controversal between Japan and Korea. Both are now considered too Korean POV in Japanese net community, so they may be inspired from the community. If they are not the same person, it is impossible to choose a main account.

Plus, I point out that 日本穣 is involving Liancourt Rocks and Sea of Japan at the Korean side. For fair administration, he should not commit on this request.--Mochi 11:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)