Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Paralympiakos

Response to outside view by Dachknanddarice

 * In the interest of impartiality, it would probably help his case if you posted the diffs of your interactions with him so we can have a better perspective. My experiences with him are limited to his postings on the MMA wiki project and edit summaries on some of the articles I looked at. ZephyrFox (talk) 05:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Unsure if I should provide those in my official outside view, or here. For now, I will put them here and watch this page just in case someone says I should add them to the official outside view I added.  Again, these are only diffs which prove that Paralympiakos has always been cordial and helpful to me and has never taken the tone with me that he has adopted for this issue.


 * Diffs: ,


 * Hope this helps.  Dachknanddarice  ( T ‖ C ) 18:38, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Response to response by Paraolympiakos
It's unfortunate that you might leave due to this dispute. I am sure everyone appreciates your contributions to the project.

Guidelines are not rules, but going against them still should have a reason other than "I don't like it". The Method capitalization and event flag icons that are well defined in the guidelines for good reasons and you need quite solid reasons to ignore those.

As for the event names. That can still be discussed, but no one has brought that up at WT:MMA. I don't see any guidelines linked regarding that, so are no limits in that regard. Either way works for me. The discussion probably should be done at the WT:MMA page though. Other details like that can be discussed too.

Also I don't think we are forcing anything here. We are simply trying to make the MMA record tables conform to existing wikipedia guidelines. But again, everything is for discussion and wikipedia works on consensus. The consensus currently is for the change, but if you know someone who doesn't agree with them direct them to the discussion at WT:MMA, their input would be appreciated. --Tuoppi gm (talk) 16:51, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


 * As a new editor to Wikipedia, I have to be honest and say that I'm very confused about how we achieve "concensus" for things like MoS and such. I know what concensus means, but how do we know when we've reached a "concensus"?  It seems to me that there are maybe 10 or so people who are actively contributing to the MMA Wikiproject at the moment and I haven't seen them all weigh in on the MoS issue that Parakympiakos is having a problem with.  Do we have a MoS that deals specifically with MMA-related articles within the scope of this Wikiproject?  Or are we going by a generic MoS defined for general article creation, tables, and lists?  If it's the latter, I'd propose we need to create one that is specific to the MMA wikiproject (if such a thing is even possible) so we can actually address specific MoS issues in regards to this project.


 * I realize that we have some of this written on the WP:MMA page itself, but it doesn't address the issue Paralympiakos has at the present regarding the MMA record table. My question then, to everyone, is how many people have to agree on one style vs. another in order for it to be considered a "concensus"?  I admit, I'm following the MoS as it is currently because I keep hearing it's what the concensus has agreed with.  But if the concensus is on a general MoS and not one specific to our wikiproject, I'd say maybe we should come up with our own and let everyone discuss it in detail so we can actually come to a concensus among MMA fans on MMA specifics.


 * Sorry for writing a novel about this and maybe this should have been written on the WT:MMA page, but it confuses me and probably other new editors to Wikipedia. Thanks for your time.   Dachknanddarice  ( T ‖ C ) 23:14, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Have you read WP:CON? There's no hard and fast definition, but at WT:MMA it's quite clear what's favoured by the consensus when eight editors have participated and the best argument on one side is "it looks hideous".  Not everybody needs to be happy with a decision, or we'll be at a standstill indefinitely.  The talk page section has been up for two months, so the active contributors to WikiProject MMA who haven't commented yet probably don't feel strongly enough for either side.  Any style guideline specific to a wikiproject should still try to follow Wikipedia's MoS. — LOL T/C 01:00, 17 March 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, fair enough. I wasn't trying to start an e-fight or anything about all of this.  I will definitely go read WP:CON.  Like I said, my main concern is making sure the Wikiproject stays focused and we are able to clearly eliminate any "guess work" when it comes to things such as the MoS.  I promise, I'm here to work under all guidelines and rules set forth by this wikiproject and due to my own confusion about such things, I thought it would be nice if we had things clearly defined.  Apparently I didn't read well enough (which I am prone to doing, I admit) and didn't realize that this was already done in addition to me just being ignorant about where to find such information.  My apologies.  I think I'm just bummed that we might lose a major contributor like Paralympiakos and am hoping for a reconciliation to this problem.  But it doesn't look like Paralympiakos even wants to discuss any sort of compromise.  Maybe I just care about MMA way too much.   Dachknanddarice  ( T ‖ C ) 01:33, 17 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Did I imply that you were trying to start a fight? I was only trying to provide a succinct, straightforward response.  Anyway, as the policy I linked above states, consensus is Wikipedia's fundamental model for editorial decision-making.  If Paralympiakos is incapable of following that model, even over a matter of style, then it may be time for him to leave.  MMA articles may suffer in the short term, but since MMA is the fastest-growing sport, new members who are more open-minded should join. — LOL T/C 02:03, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Closed
RFC closed due to manifest lack of interest. I also note that as of today the subject has semi-retired from Wikipedia. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:42, 11 April 2011 (UTC)