Wikipedia talk:Romanian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 5

Part 1
It appears that User:Node_ue is back with a self-initiated vote to become sysadmin on the much contested Moldovan wikipedia. This, to me, goes against the conclusions of the discussion that took place some time ago, and which was that we should leave mo.wiki closed until some moldovan comes to use it. Not meaning to be alarmist, but it's better to stop this maniac until he re-opens the mo.wiki (half-closing it was really difficult). Dpotop 07:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * So, do we just vote there or what? Dahn 08:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't answer. I just noticed that I'm not qualified. Anyway: what's the deal with that crap version? Does it still exist? Dahn 08:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, it does exist. Node_ue managed to spread enough FUD for the admins on wikipedia-l to be unable to take a clear decision. The conclusion was that mo.wiki should remain freezed until a real Moldovan wants it. But, of course, today mo.wiki is a playground where Node_ue and Bonaparte (and their clones) are building and destroying sand castles. Dpotop 09:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the word you're looking for is trolling, not FUD. :-) bogdan 22:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, I have nominated it (heh, again) for closure: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia bogdan 22:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I really hope this will be the end of it. TSO1D 23:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow, suddenly there are many Russians there, voting to keep the mo.wiki, seems Node has done some recruiting... Anclation 12:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course. Node_ue brought them. To use an old Romanian saying "this guy is like scabies, it's difficult to get rid of." Dpotop 13:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * He sure did:

"Hi, sorry to write in English, but I don't know Russian. I am writing here to alert all Russian Wikipedians to the attempt by a group of Romanian nationalists to close the Moldovan Wikipedia, an active Wikipedia with over 300 articles which is growing rapidly, simply because they don't like the Cyrillic script. They have resorted to lies and slander, including saying that the Wikipedia has no community, and that it is inactive. Please vote here on the future of the Moldovan Wikipedia. ALso, I will appreciate it greatly if someone trnaslates this post to Russian. Thank you. --Node ue" on their forum. TSO1D 19:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Isn't there some wikipedia rule against this? Because he's basically telling lies there, in order to make us fight each other. Dpotop 20:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a policy called Survey notification, but it's only proposed and IMO it will probably fail. &mdash; Khoikhoi 20:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * In any case, he doesn't have an account on Ru where the possible transgression took place. And Meta would not punish him for those actions. I only hope that his conduct will be taken into consideration in considering the validity of the vote. TSO1D 21:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I put a notice under his post. I hope Russians are going to understand that this guy is dangerous. He is willing to exploit the difficulty of communication to start an edit war. Dpotop 21:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm. Not yet translated... Dahn 21:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

On a *completely different issue*, I was thinking that wikipedia would be improved a lot if we begin work on a Russian in Latin characters version. Countless of people will benefit from not having to read it in Cyrillic, and all contributors would have to be familiar with is Cyrillic - we'll call it "the Node_ue method". Then, perhaps, we could move on to Tifinagh for Ukrainian. Dahn 03:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you serious, or it's just a symptom of the frustration Node_ue can produce on Moldovan-related pages?


 * If you are serious about doing it, I suggest we contact Bogdan Giusca. We could then convert his script to do what you want, and then we request the creation of the la-ru wikipedia (latin russian) on the same grounds. Something like "if you refuse deleting this one, you cannot deny us this". Note that a Siberian language already existed, and was deleted by User:Alex Bakharev. But we could revive it and say we are supporting an endagered ethnic minority in imperialist Russia. :):):) Dpotop 09:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if I could handle Siberian, but I was dead serious about Russian in Latin script. But I have an even more pressing one - since they could always argue that Siberian and Latin Russian were never official, it is very much time that we began, for the sake of all users, a "Russian in pre-reform Cyrillic alphabet" (before 1918). Let us not deny people born 150 years ago the chance to access the Internet. Dahn 09:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sweet! I apologize, because I thought you would never, ever, even envision that. So, do we contact Bogdan? Dpotop 09:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure. Let's do that. Dahn 09:39, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I left a message on his talk page. We're going to need more supporters, though. All those who want to contribute to the growth of this vibrant community, please sign up here. Dahn 09:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I am fluent in cyrillic, but know close to nothing in Russian. I presume I could say I'm ru-1. :) But I presume we could always rely on babelfish.altavista.com. :) Dpotop 09:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Fluent in Cyrillic is enough. Copy-paste and be mindful of grouped letters and minor details. If you replace the letters in all sections of words, you'll have 100% fluency in pre-1918 Russian Cyrillic; sure, you may miss a spot or two once in a while, but who doesn't make mistakes? In whatever scenario, our contributions will be much more comprehensive than Node's - especially since we wouldn't have to replace all, but just some of the letters. Dahn 09:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Part 2
I posted another message on wikipedia-l (lists). If you feel concerned, please react in the discussion that will ensue. Bonaparte and Anittas: please do not intervene, because your posts may jeopardize our initiatives (you tend to use language that is not suited/politically correct/correct). If you choose to post, anyway, only post if you feel your position is rational, and only rational text. Otherwise, you help Node_ue. Wikipedia-l is here. You may need an account to post. Dpotop 12:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I see Node wants to Bring his Russians into this again: "Hi again. Since there is now a majority voting to keep this Wikipedia, the Romanians have decided they don't like democracy anymore, and have taken it to the Wikipedia-l mailing list: here. Hopefully, the people in charge will not fall for this, but I think it would be good if some voices of reason and logic could be heard on the mailing list too. Thanks! --Node" TSO1D 15:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem, wikipedia-l is not about voting, it's about explaining rational things to the decision-makers. It's essential that we remain calm and rational. Note the number of messages Node_ue is sending. Dpotop 16:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, as his messages lack qualities, he thinks he can compensate through sheer quantity. TSO1D 17:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Until now, quantity was enough. :( Dpotop 17:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Part 3
Ok, my push on wikipedia-l for the closure of the Moldovan wikipedia failed. I have even provided evidence of Node_ue harassing me over e-mail, and all these guys had to say is a plain "we don't care about your problems". Right now I am not sure I wish to be a part of such an organization where self-organization and self-governance is just a facade. Looks very much like justice in Romania. Dpotop 14:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I forgot: My failure does not influence the status quo. The vote organized by Node_ue, or our complete closure request are just as useless from a practical point. The people on wikipedia-l simply seem stuffed with this Moldovan business. Dpotop 16:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * After another e-mail request, I realized I did not give you the link to some anti-romanian prose by Node_ue. Try it here (his message is attached at the end). Dpotop 11:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I will copy here an e-mail I missed on wikipedia-l more than 3 months ago, and which is what I wanted to obtain. That wikipedia is freezed indeed. You can all find the message here. This is the current "constitution" of the moldovan wikipedia, which is freezed. :) Dpotop 17:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

National theatres
(I don't really know where to post this, I hope this is the right place for it :) An user at HuWiki mentioned that Romania has (at least) 4 national theatres, I added their names to the article National Theatre, please check if these are the correct names (and add the missing ones if there are more of them). greetings, – Alensha 寫 词 19:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * On the equivalent disambig at ro.wiki, there are listed seven of them. I added them to the page. bogdan 19:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I just translated a large chunk of the Romanian-language article ro:Teatrul Naţional "Ion Luca Caragiale" Bucureşti to the English one. - Jmabel | Talk 00:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Standard naming scheme
Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Regional notice boards. Zocky | picture popups 00:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Polish-Romanian Alliance
I have created a new article on this interesting subject, perhaps you would like to expand it?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 18:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Piotrus, I dropped a note at Portal:Romania/New article announcements, which is probably the best place to notify about this sort of thing. - Jmabel | Talk 05:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Byzantium after Byzantium
Some contention at Talk:Byzantium after Byzantium. It looks to me like an article with some good material, but possibly a bit of a POV polemic. Others on this board may want to weigh in. - Jmabel | Talk 06:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Romania
I'm going to be in Romania from the 16th - 23rd August. Bucharest for a day, and then Constanta (probably going to Vama Veche at some point too). If anyone wants photos taking or fancies meeting up for a pint, let me know. - FrancisTyers · 18:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We could definitely use better pictures of Vama Veche.
 * The only specific Bucharest photo I know we need (but it's not worth going way out of your way to take it unless you find yourself in that part of town) is we should get some pictures of what is now the Filaret bus station (autogară) which was originally Bucharest's first passenger rail station - Jmabel | Talk 16:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'll see if I'm around that way. Any specific pictures of Vama Veche or should I just go into tourist mode? :) - FrancisTyers · 16:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * If it's out of your way, I took some photos of Filaret Bus Station today. I have uploaded this one and this one on commons, in commons:Category:Buildings in Bucharest.--Andrei 11:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no particular agenda, but at least a couple of the pictures currently on the article are poorly focused. - Jmabel | Talk 19:15, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * This is probably too late, but if anyone is in Bucharest near Valter Mărăcineanu Square, then a photo of the headquarters of the National Council for Combating Discrimination would be highly appreciated. I'm currently working on that article and would like to expand on it. [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|20px]][[Image:Flag of Romania.svg|20px]] Ronline ✉ 10:57, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Help with translations
I'm currently working on a script intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you know any of the languages listed at User:Soman/Lang-Help, then please help by filling in the blanks. For example I need help with Romanian. Thanks, --Soman 12:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Paul Lambrino
I'm really inclined to revert this recent edit to Paul Lambrino. Referring to Mircea Grigore Carol Lambrino as "illegitimate" strikes me as rather bogus (yes, Carol II's marriage to Zizi Lambrino was annulled, but that was basically just politics). Calling him "Mircea Grigore" instead of "Carol Lambrino" just seems snide. "King Michael is a recognized protector of the Jews during WWII" seems dubious ("recognized by whom")? And removing House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen and Euro-royal-stub seems just polemical.

Out of curiosity, I checked the contributions of the person who made the edits. All of his other edits are to Radu, Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen, and all of them appear to be sympathetic to Radu. Now, I happen to agree that Prince Radu seems like a nice guy and "Prince" Paul like a self-aggrandizing twit, but it's not Wikipedia's job to be mean to self-aggrandizing twits.

Since I imagine not a lot of people are watching the Paul Lambrino article, I thought I'd bring the matter here. - Jmabel | Talk 23:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Photos still needing identification:

Once again, I'm trying to ID some photos I took in Bucharest. I'll start out with two of them. These are in the Lipscani district. - Jmabel | Talk 06:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC) Making progress, so let's try a couple more. - Jmabel | Talk 04:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

And since this one (posted about 10-12 weeks ago) still hasn't been properly identified:

While I'm at it, can anyone identify this object from the Museum of the Romanian Peasant? I've tentatively identified it as an amphora, but I don't see how liquids would get in or out.

Possible alternate image(s) for Romanians infobox
Anittas (who is currently banned, for reasons that do not bear on his trustworthiness) sent me the image I have now uploaded as Image:Four Romanians.JPG, and suggests that it might make a better choice for the Infobox for the [Romanians]] article. From left to right, Stephen III of Moldavia (Ştefan Cel Mare); composer George Enescu; scientist Victor Babeş; and jet aircraft pioneer Henri Coandă. All images should be public domain. And of course we could mix and match. Just passing it along.

Any discussion should probably be at Talk:Romanians. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Again, no "Romanians list" can exist without Eminescu. And I presume Michael the Brave cannot be forgotten, either. Dpotop 09:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Transnistria
În 17 septembrie va fi referendum în Transnistria legat de independenţa regiunii. Cu această ocazie probabil multă lume va căuta pe Wikipedia informaţii despre Transnistria. Am încercat să adaug în articol nişte informaţii legate de acest referendum, anume:

- faptul că mai multe organizaţii antiseparatiste au lansat un apel la boicotare, considerînd referendumul "farsă"

- faptul că din 46 de ţări membre ale Consiliului Europei, 45 sînt împotriva recunoaşterii referendumului, numai RUsia are altă părere

- faptul că datele Comisiei Electorale Centrale din Tiraspol au fost schimbate în mod ciudat, anume numărul total de alegători s-a micşorat cu 7% faţă de 2005, ceea ce ridică suspiciuni asupra unei încercări de creştere artificială a prezenţei la vot prin raportarea unui număr mai mic de alegători înregistraţi.

Totdeauna am dat lincurile care dovedesc cele scrise de mine, n-am născocit nimic din burtă.


 * For the benefit of those who don't read Romanian: I don't have time right now to translate all that, but it starts with…


 * On 17 September there will be a referendum in Transnistria about regional independence. With this occasion, probably much of the world will look to Wikipedia for information about Transnistria. I've tried to add in the articel some information about this referendum, in particular:


 * The fact that many anti-separatist organizations have launched an apeal for a boycott, considering the referendum a "farse"


 * The fact that of 46 member countries of the Council of Europe, 45 are against recognizing the referendum, only Russia has a different opinion

…

Hope that helps. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's a start. But I wouldn't bother, Jmabel, because the above is an extremely one-sided and biased rewrite of the actual events. Instead, I would recommend anyone who is interested to read the ENTIRE Talk-page of the Transnistria article, where all sides are presented and the various arguments are given in their entirety. It would be good to get some experienced editors to look at this and help out so we can get some NPOV influence, if time permits. - Mauco 17:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Votaţi împotriva cenzurii
Împreună cu EvilAlex (un tip din Tighina - Transnistria) am creat un articolul Heaven of Transnistria despre propaganda regimului de la Tiraspol. I s-a cerut ştergerea. Vă rog ajutaţi-ne să păstrăm articolul, votînd contra ştergerii. Destul a fost şters din articolul principal Transnistria, Wikipedia e plină de propagandă a Tiraspolului, să avem măcar un articol care explică această propagandă--MariusM 18:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Translating the above (please feel free to edit in place and correct any mistakes; my Romanian is by no means perfect) - Jmabel | Talk 04:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Vote against censorship


 * Together with EvilAlex (a guy from Tighina - Transnistria) I've created the article Heaven of Transnistria about the propaganda of the Tiraspol regime. It faces deletion. Please help us preserve the article, voting against . Enough has been  removed from the main article  Transnistria, Wikipedia is full of Tiraspol's propaganda, there ought to be at least one article that explains thie propaganda--MariusM 18:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Palatul Telefoanelor
There was a recent edit at Palatul Telefoanelor that made some perfectly plausible changes, but without citation (and without changing the citations, so now info is cited to sources that don't bear it out). Pretty much everything I know on the topic comes from the sources I cited, so I don't have much to add; all I can find on the web to bear out the changes is forums and the like. But I'm figuring someone from Bucharest may be able to determine if my sources are wrong. See Talk:Palatul Telefoanelor. I'm inclined to revert and maybe just add footnotes about the possible discrepancies; does anyone have anything more solid. - Jmabel | Talk 06:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Vote for links that should be included in Transnistria article
Please come at Transnistria talk page and vote for what links you believe are good for the article Transnistria. We want to have a good quality article, according Wikipedia's best standards. --MariusM 23:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Other people are also asking for votes William Mauco asking Node ue vote on Transnistria's links


 * There was actually a bit of a difference. It is considered inappropriate to publicly solicit votes from a subset of Wikipedians with an anticipated special set of preferences. That is called vote shopping. On the other hand, it is considered very appropropiate to go to the page and find the top 10 or so previous contributors, regardless of POV and based strictly on their number of edits, and ask them to be part of the process since they have been very active in shaping the particular page in the past. That is merely a nod to those who know most about the subject, on either side of the aisle. - Mauco 23:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Request for Opinion
Some ten days ago I restored some relevant information in the article Islam in Romania, mentioning Transylvania in the history section. User Dahn didn't agree to this and repeatedly deleted my edit. 

We started a debate on the Talk:Islam in Romania, where I plead for mentioning Transylvania in the article, my counterpart uncompromisingly refusing it. Subsidiarily, I called for caution when linking an article. 

User Dahn started then personal attacks, slandering, accusing and denouncing me. 

I consider this behaviour to be injustified and inacceptable.

Though I am not aware of having done whatever to deserve such a treatment, I would like to have your opinions on this case. I know that this request doesn't fullfill the requirements for a formal Request for Comment, but I am very interested in your opinion on this case, here on the Romanian Portal.

If I'm not asking too much, please take your time, read carefully the documents and give your comment. Thank you. --Timor Stultorum 14:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Just in case someone is actually going to answer this informal request, I urge him or her to take a look over all the sections of that talk page, not just the fragments indicated by a man who has repeatedly posted inflammatory and misleading spam. Dahn 14:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia românească
Salut! Sunt Radufan, administrator la Wikipedia în limba română. Cred că a-ţi avut ocazia să constataţi cum stau lucrurile pe acolo. Ne apropiem de 40.000 de articole însă la capitolul calitate nu stăm foarte bine. Avem nevoie de mai multe contribuţii mai experte şi ştiu că aici este o mică comunitate care se pricepe bine la Wikipedia. Poate ceea ce nu ştiţi este faptul că aici sunt mai mulţi contributori români decât suntem la Wikipedia românească. Nu e o glumă, suntem doar o mână de oameni care ne ocupăm de tot, deşi statisticile arată că avem 20.000 de utilizatori. În realitate nici 10% nu fac măcar o contribuţie iar cei stabili care contribuie săptămânal sunt nu mai mult de 30-40. Aşa că 40.000 de articole sunt exagerat de mult de gestionat pentru atâţi de puţini. Dacă aveţi timp mai treceţi şi pe WikiRo şi contribuiţi un rând, două. Aici chiar sunt enorm de mulţi şi nu-mi fac griji că nu se descurcă fără userii ro. E o sfidă nu un apel de disperare. Dacă o mână de oameni am făcut Wikiro, aşa cum e ea, ce am putea face cu mai mulţi wikipedişti experimentaţi? Ministerul Educaţiei începe un proiect de cooperare cu noi prin care popularizează Wikipedia în şcoli. . În tandem, presa deja a început să vorbească despre noi şi Asociaţia Wiki Ro e pe cale să ia fiinţă. Impactul a ce facem noi poate fi enorm de mare. Gândiţi-vă numai puţin. Vă aşteptăm!--Radufan 02:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Mujdei
Could someone take a look on this, improve it or let it delete if NN? TIA Pavel Vozenilek 01:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The article is factually-correct, and I think it's notable in that mujdei is a rather popular sauce in Romania. I think it should be improved, however. [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|20px]][[Image:Flag of Romania.svg|20px]] Ronline ✉ 04:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

DYK
The DYK section featured on the main page is always looking for interesting new and recently expanded stubs from different parts of the world. Please make a suggestion.--Peta 02:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Deşteaptă-te, române!
(Not that I'm trying to interrupt anyone's nap, but…)

Recently, the more literal translation was deleted from Deşteaptă-te, române!. I think it is a bad decision, but would like to see a consensus develop one way or another; discussion at Talk:Deşteaptă-te, române! - Jmabel | Talk 05:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorin Cerin, again
For those of you who don't remember the Sorin Cerin saga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sorin_Cerin. I see that substantially the same article (with exactly the same poorly placed punctuation marks) has now appeared on the Romanian Wikipedia. I wouldn't have noticed this except that someone with exactly the same bad punctuation chose to leave me a notice on my user talk page about how mean the English-language Wikipedia was to poor D-ul Cerin.

I would appreciate if those who are active on the Romanian Wikipedia work out whether (unlike what appeared to be the case in the go-round this summer) the article presents adequate evidence of notability (in which case it should probably be translated for the English-language Wikipedia) or not (in which case it should probably be deleted from the Romanian-language Wikipedia). Since he apparently writes in English, it is hard to see how it could merit inclusion in the Romanian-language Wikipedia and not in the English. - Jmabel | Talk 16:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Romas
(Or romi.) I know that a few people have been active on topics related to Romas in Romania. I see that is the theme of the current issue of Dilema Veche:. I bet there is material there worth mining. - Jmabel | Talk


 * Thanks for the link :) Dilema Veche is a great resource for commentary on social issues, particularly relating to equality and civil rights. [[Image:Flag of Europe.svg|20px]][[Image:Flag of Romania.svg|20px]] Ronline ✉ 02:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Romania during World War II
May I request that a few more people watch Romania during World War II? I just removed blatant Holocaust denial that had been there for five days. - Jmabel | Talk 06:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Level of activity
Hey, I just wanted to say how genuinely cool it is that there is enough work going on on en-wiki about Romania that I can't keep up with it all, and that far more of it is good than not. I'm really impressed. - Jmabel | Talk 06:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Movileşti
A question if I may. As many know, a descendant of this family is one of the most prominent people and an iconic figure in the Ukrainian culture known as Peter Mogila or, in Ukrainian, Petro Mohyla, a Kiev Metropolitan in the 17th century.

My question is about redirects. Currently Mogila redirects to the metropolitan but Mohyla redirects to the family. This of course makes no sense. They both should redirect to one and the same place. The question is where, family or metropolitan.

I would like to change the redirect of the Ukrainian-based Mohyla to the metropolitan article and would like to check here first. It seems to me that anyone enetering Mohyla in the search field is likely to be looking to the metropolitan rather than the Moldavian family. We could add to the top of the article a note that would say something like:


 * Mogila and Mohyla redirect here. For the noble Moldavian family see Movileşti

The main reason is that this particular member of the family is very prominent in the Slavic culture and whoever enters the Slavic spelling in the search filed is likely to be looking for the metropolitan rather than the family. Thoughts? --Irpen 15:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I believe I am responsible for that. The thing is that the Polish Mohyła was the most used name for the family after the Romanian variants, since the family was eventually integrated into Polish nobility (Mohyła currently redirects to the family); I don't know what that says about the non-diacritic version - which, written as such, coincides with the Ukrainian version -, but, whatever solution you adopt in the end, consider this aspect in your evaluation. Personally, I think both of the two solutions possible are as acceptable. Dahn 16:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)