Wikipedia talk:School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012

Further thoughts about the plan
Please feel free to interject comments on these points:


 * Keep the students on a "need-to-know" basis when it comes to wiki markup. i.e. no diffs and history, etc. Always be mindful of their experience. That experience should be a simple page, containing their writing, with references. They should be familiar with "edit" and "save". That's pretty much it. Then they can focus on content and sources.


 * We can post a link to their article at their talk page.


 * Josh: feel free to share the list of instructions for students with us, if you want to.


 * Maybe, if students want to add an image, we can provide a link where they can, in simple text, tell us the article and an url, etc. of the image they wish to add to the article.


 * The main help IRC channel may be better than a dedicated channel. Also, consider no IRC at all. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I never talked to a student on IRC only Josh. Perhaps IRC is as difficult as talk pages for students. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I think we will need more than 40 topics, are we assuming that 3*40=120 students and that another 20 will not participate? It would be nice to actually let them have a choice by picking say 80 topics.
 * There were varying capabilities in the writers last time, some were very good, most needed help with punctuation and English syntax. Some produced text that was almost incomprehensible and others did nothing whatsoever.  With groups I hope that a joint effort will give better articles.
 * Choosing topics seems like a good idea, as we did have problems with unsuitable topics before. Some of the better topics included high schools and clothing. The food articles before sounded a good idea, but not all of them survived.
 * Should we be marking up the students work? If they can take their own pictures it is great, but as Anna said that is tough to do, you can expect several months experience before people figure out pictures.
 * We still need to head towards making articles or content for articles, because that is the purpose of this wiki. This means that the topics have to be encyclopedic, and not a waste of time by duplicating something already here or something in the WP:NOT essay. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Good points. May I interject my comments between the points? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Topics: The students may prefer non-Chinese topics. In fact, I think they would. There are plenty of those topics, and the sources are better. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:08, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

A concern
Are we still putting a lot of emphasis on writing new articles? Although it's a tempting target, I think it's counterproductive, as the learning curve for new editors trying to write new articles is fairly steep, and the OR problems (because school/university papers are generally written differently to encyclopædia articles) are bigger, and students' work is much more likely to be deleted en masse - this doesn't benefit either side. Would it be possible to shift some of the emphasis over to improving existing content? We have such huge backlogs of existing articles which need attention, and reducing that backlog (rather than adding to it) could be positive for both sides. bobrayner (talk) 13:28, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * From what i'm getting off the front page, the 40 pages are going to be subpages of this page, so they won't be in mainspace. So there really isn't any concern about deletion. Silver  seren C 20:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Good points and suggestions. I will talk with the course instructor about that. Maybe they could be assigned sections of existing articles to expand. The downside of that is that they would be working in the mainspace, where their writing would be ripped to shreds, breaking their hearts.


 * As for the learning curve, they would be focused only on sourced fact, period. No formatting, etc.


 * As Silver seren says, these will be cobbled together in subpages. They will be made from pre-approved topics, and made suitable for the mainspace before they are moved there. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:14, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * A section of an article could be copied into the sandbox here and then worked on. Then wen ready it is copied back to the article.  The attribution for copyright purposes is more tricky but we can add a list of the editors who worked on a section when it is pasted back. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Subpages talk pages
It may be best to only use this one for now. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Preparation of student accounts
Per IRC discussion, we would like to prepare accounts, for lots of reasons. Last term there were lost passwords, students with two accounts, convention issues, confusion with Wikipedia interface, reliance on the students to add the account names to a list, etc.

It seems that best would be:

Plan A: Request Wikimedia Foundation to automatically create the accounts from an emailed Excel list provided by Josh, the course instructor. Josh would then cut the list into strips, and physically provide each student with an account and password. Please help write this letter: User:Anna Frodesiak/Black sandbox. If it gets refused, it's on to Plan B:

Plan B: Josh splits the list into smaller Excel files, and emails to helpers. Each helper creates 10 or 20 accounts. Josh gets the "ok". He then prints out the list and physically provide each student with an account and password.

Plan C: The students are provided an account name. They register their own accounts. All hell breaks loose.

I suggest removing every variable that we can, and keeping a lid on potential problems. This means taking the students out of the driver's seat whenever possible. Wikipedia is overwhelming enough. Let's keep life simple for them. If you think, "Well, how hard can it be to register an account", we all know that 25 issues that will come up related to it, such as lost passwords, didn't add name to list afterward, added it twice, etc. Thoughts? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, I made a slight tweak to the letter. Now, some thoughts:
 * If students are not creating their own passwords, then presumably another person will know the password for each account. I would very strongly recommend telling students to change their passwords ASAP.
 * It would be desirable to have email addresses for students upfront, in order to allow password recovery when the inevitable happens and somebody gets locked out.
 * If I remember correctly, account creation by a single person is throttled (or is that from a single IP?). What's the daily limit?
 * bobrayner (talk) 04:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Slight tweak: Thanks.
 * Change passwords ASAP: Good point.
 * Email/pass recovery: Could get messy rounding them up. But Chinese students are excellent at protecting "valuable paperwork" (the slip of paper) from experience with their National ID Cards. Josh can ask them to write it in two or three places. That should result in 2 or less lost password incidents.
 * Throttling: We were worried about that. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Just remembered: Throttling is six per day unless you're in the accountcreator group.
 * I'd be happy to set up a Google spreadsheet and share it with Josh, and then create accounts for each row, and then create a table somewhere on-wiki which copies a couple of nonprivate columns from the spreadsheet. Could request accountcreator membership (perhaps for some limited period) - it's probably easier to achieve than persuading somebody else to juggle the data and create the accounts. bobrayner (talk) 05:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I can set the accountcreator permission for a person that wants to do this, but there is a policy on who should be able to do it. (It says make 50 accounts) I could probably make the accounts myself, what I need is the account names and email addresses.  A random password is made up and sent to the email address. We use this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup&uselang=en-acc. Or for a Chinese language signup page for English Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup&uselang=zh Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * If email in Plan A is unavoidable, it defeats the point.


 * If students register themselves at zh.wikipedia, can they do so without email, and will the account automatically be global? If so, Plan C looks best. Josh can issue account names to students. Then he can just paste the list into Student list. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:11, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Technically, students should be able to register themselves, but doesn't this bring us back to the original problems of chaotic enrolment?
 * Graeme has very kindly given me the accountcreator bit, so I could do the account creation itself plus the associated data wrangling... bobrayner (talk) 13:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Plan C does indeed bring us back to the problems of chaotic enrollment. If they can register themselves without email, and be able to automatically use the account at en.wikipedia without fiddling with preferences/global, then it is a good second choice. But, ideal would be Plan A: to create the accounts for them, without rounding all their email addresses. Can this be done without them providing emails? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it can be done. If it's possible to round up emails for some, then that would reduce the risk of lockouts, and it also eases the enrolment process (I could also send people their account details by email), but email addresses are not mandatory. bobrayner (talk) 14:06, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds wonderful! I will post at Josh's (the instructor) talk page asking him to read this. I'm not sure emailing students will be needed (by the students), but you can if you want. I am very grateful for your help with this. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, first of all, thanks as always for the help. After several readings, I'm not sure I understand the state of affairs entirely. Getting all e-mail addresses would be very messy--it's not used often to communicate with students, and most of them will have QQ emails, i.e. numbers, which some will copy wrong or illegibly on whatever sheet I give them. I won't have a student list (or any contact info) until class begins, so I can't prep the accounts until term starts. Plan C was last term, and chaotic. I could no doubt round up emails for some, as you suggest, if that eases the process. If I have, say, 140 students, how many emails do we need? Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 06:56, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * We don't need any fixed number of emails. Having email addresses would be helpful (and would reduce the hassle of lost passwords, further down the line) but not mandatory. Having 1 address would be better than having none. Having 100 would be better than having 99.
 * Without emails we will still need some other way to uniquely identify students (name, student ID number, or whatever).
 * I will create a spreadsheet offline and will try to make things as manageable as possible for you. If we have plans to allocate different tasks to different students, it would be a good idea to record that on the same spreadsheet, and so on. I'll then create a table on-wiki which includes most of the spreadsheet (but not the passwords column &c).
 * Do we want to put a welcome message or some kind of template on each user's talkpage? bobrayner (talk) 09:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Point 1 - If it's only for lost passwords, it might not be worth the hassle. If it's to input during account creation to prevent software issues, I'm sure josh can dig up a few, if absolutely necessary.
 * Point 2 - Chinese names may need English equivalents, which is tricky. Josh may have student numbers on his computer already. An easy solution might be to generate usernames from account numbers: User:NNU-2012-W-001 = Student name: Student-001.
 * Point 3 - Splendid idea.
 * Point 4 - We will indeed. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Topic list
The items I added at the Topic list are just suggestions. Frankly, although notable, I don't think there are enough facts to make a decent waterfall article. Then again, a student may finish it so quickly and easily, she may feel quite satisfied and ask for another to do. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Students in a translation course will join
An additional 30-35 students in a translation course will join. They will translate articles from zh --> en. I added an extra table in Article management. The articles are already established here at en Wikipedia, so, same plan, with many columns in the table just needing ticks after a quick check of the articles. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:46, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Updating
1) I will have class with 3 groups tomorrow and the other 2 on Wednesday, which will get me student names & numbers. I will pass those on, and Bob will e-mail me their passwords for me to pass out in class the following week. Have I got that straight? 2) That week's classes--Feb 19 and Feb 21, will be the simple all-class Wikipedia lesson. Students should all be registering and signing up for topics before the next classes (Feb 26 and Feb 28). 3) I want to make the topic list student-ready, which would involve clearing out excess bridges and the non-Chinese topics--I will keep three of them. May I do that? Then, I will make a table of the selected subjects, with a place for the students to sign up. Will try to copy the SFSU model, but may need a little help. All for now. Working on the basic instructions. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 07:53, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds reasonable to me. If you need a hand with anything, just ask. bobrayner (talk) 13:20, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me too. Sure, you can really create any topic list that you like. Let us know when you are happy with it, and we can check it for duplicates or other issues.


 * If you have trouble making tables, feel free to dump lists into any of my sandboxes with instructions like "Hey Anna! Make this into a table!". Or you can email me an Excel sheet.


 * You wrote "...with a place for the students to sign up...". If you want, in class, you can sort out who will be working on what topic, and give me the list, and I can make it into a table for you. This would ensure the table being complete instantly, and avoid the need for them to sign up on-wikipedia. Your call.


 * I'm here when you need me. PM me on IRC or drop me line at my talk anytime. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Saw the translation class, and two writing classes. I have numbers for the others. Presently, best guess is:

Translation 27 students, 9 groups, 1 class Writing 119 students, 38 groups, 4 classes For now, I will be selecting 45 Writing topics and 12 Translation topics. More when I have seen the other classes. Thanks! Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 08:13, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Progress so far
Any other suggestions? bobrayner (talk) 13:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * 138 accounts created.
 * Userpages templated with this. If you can think of any improvements to make to the template, please do...
 * Google Spreadsheet populated with accountnames, passwords, useful links &c. I've tweaked the spreadsheet layout so it's easer to print a copy, and cut it into pieces and give a piece (username & password) to each student, just in case the old-fashioned method of password distribution is more convenient.
 * Just waiting for Josh to make any improvements to the spreadsheet (assign articles to students, add any extra students), then I can create a table on the project page which is based on the spreadsheet (plus wikimarkup, minus the passwords column, of course).


 * Are we still going to use a dedicated IRC channel this time around? (As opposed to using #wikipedia-en-help or a centralised talk page) wctaiwan (talk) 13:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. I don't think a dedicated IRC channel is a good idea; we can hardly guarantee that it will be "staffed" 24/7. Something asynchronous, like a talkpage, is probably better. My76Strat's template should be updated to reflect this. bobrayner (talk) 13:08, 19 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The new accounts have been templated with content that leads them to the last group's page, and the last group's IRC channel. Example: User:NNUR06DavidWang5090603. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:21, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. I just copied the link to the template from School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Welcome letter and template. Will fix...


 * We haven't really discussed what to paste on their userpage or talk. We can hash it out at helpers or #en-nnu-help. I will stay on that channel, and I see wctaiwan is there. I will sleep soon, so feel free to decide without me. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:28, 19 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Just spoke to wctaiwan: will abandon nnu channel and discuss at #wikipedia-en-helpers. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:30, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Upate
Per IRC with wctaiwan and bobrayner:

See: School and_university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012 for new centralized student draft discussion link


 * Students have registered. See project page subpage student list for raw list. Table is coming.
 * Will abandon the NNU IRC channel and stick to help for students and helpers/help for helpers.
 * Will add banners to student userpages IDing student as NNU.
 * Will add banners to student talk pages giving link to centralized help page.
 * Will add banners to draft talk pages IDing it is NNU project, and providing link to centralized help page.
 * Need help toning down, simplifying, and updating links at all banners.
 * Need to move all banners to project subpage/banners/banner x, banner y, etc
 * Please help work on these banners
 * As Josh says: "Feb 19 and Feb 21, will be the simple all-class Wikipedia lesson. Students should all be registering and signing up for topics before the next classes (Feb 26 and Feb 28)", which means we have some time to prepare.
 * Bobrayner and wctaiwan will be not so active for the next few days due to off-wiki.

Thanks folks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:32, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll be online intermittently. You guys can get on with writing cool templates and text; I'll do whatever boring chores are left over each day. bobrayner (talk) 15:31, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Translation students coming in starting tomorrow
Thanks to bobrayner, we now have all necessary accounts. Bringing in the Translation students tomorrow; first Writing students Wednesday; CSL and French-English writing students next Monday. Thanks to all! Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 15:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Universal banner
Bobrayner suggested a single banner, and per discussion with Josh at IRC, I have put together a universal draft banner here. Josh and I agree that it may be best to design the wording so that it can be placed at userpage, usertalk, and draft article talk. Please comment. Please modify it.

Currently, the 138 students all have this banner User:My76Strat/NNU at their userpages. Their talk pages are still redlinks. I suggest that, if/when agreed upon, the banner at User:My76Strat/NNU can be replaced with this one, and then User:My76Strat/NNU can be moved to somewhere like: Wikipedia:School and: university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Universal banner, or something, to centralize it within the project. Comments? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Then, of course, this universal banner can be added to the usertalk pages, and to all draft article talk pages. This will prevent students from getting lost. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)


 * It looks good. May be there should be a link to the Cheatsheet? The instructor can make print handouts of this sheetsheet in English and Chinese. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 18:30, 19 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with it. Good suggestion. I will point the teacher to this link to get his opinion. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:36, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Update
OK, NNUJ and NNUR students have their passwords, have been instructed to sign in & change their passwords over the next week. NNUTrans students are looking at their topics and picking. I will see NNUF and NNUCSL students tmr. I have been working on the Topics list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects/NNU_Class_Project/Winter_2012/Topic_list Please take a look & let me know of any you may think inappropriate. Then the topics can be tabulated on the student list page for students to make their selection. Plan: groups assigned to topics by 27 & 29 (it's a leap year, right?) round of classes. Writing beginning for the following week. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 06:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Topic list - duplicate checking
We need to ensure that the items (names in particular) do not already exist an English Wikipedia. The geography-related items are probably okay. I checked them quite well. With names of people, there can be variations/misspellings:


 * Wang Shusheng can be: Wangshusheng or Wang Shu Sheng.

So, we need to punch those into the search box and see. Searching Chinese characters works too, but sometimes seems to miss. We have a deadline of 36 hours from now to complete this. Many thanks if you can pick a few and add some ticks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:47, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The ones I checked I did so by Googling their Chinese names and checking for interlanguage links on zh (if an article exists for the subject over there). I'm not sure if that's good enough, so it might help if someone could do a more thorough check after going through the list (if we still have time). wctaiwan (talk) 15:56, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have checked the rest now, no dups found. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:02, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Triple awesomeness with cherries, and many thanks to the you-know-who-you-ares who added the ticks. A couple are marked with [verification needed] caused by placing check instead of tick. The teacher did this, and I gather it's an error and meant to be a check because Netheravon Dovecote googles just fine. I just posted at his talk to find out. I would say the list is good now. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Boldly taking the initiative
Not getting a ton of input on the article template and welcome universal banner, so I will go ahead and act. I'm not trying to impose my way, but I'm not hearing any other voices on it. Please feel free to point me in another direction. I won't be offended. It's just that time is running out. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:04, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I did the following:


 * Simplified School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Article template
 * Moved the banner to School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Universal banner
 * Pasted the universal banner to all student talks. (Now it exists at all userpages and usertalks).

Feel free to improve the article template or universal banner.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:36, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks as though the 2011 students have got the same banner, is this intentional? Have we got the same students as last year? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * It's a revised version. The links to to 2012 stuff, except for the first one, which goes to the, sort of, main page. I did that because we wanted to keep the students away from our confusing backroom pages. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Update
Students have been asked to make their selection from the table. Translation students have already done so. Thanks for the help checking. Best, Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 13:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Helper sign-up?
What do you think of having each article assigned to a particular helper? That would decrease confusion about who do I go to...Last time it was disproportionately Anna. But this time, I feel like students should have one address where they go and say, "Hey, XYZ! What do you think of our new draft?" Just an idea. Comments welcome. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 13:30, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd rather they just get directed to the help desk we set up. Personally I'm reluctant to commit to a task because I don't know how busy I'll be, and I'd hate to leave them hanging, waiting for me to respond. But that's just me, and you're right that a dedicated helper may work better for general advice. wctaiwan (talk) 13:40, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Very difficult to manage workload if specific articles are allocated to specific helpers, especially if helper availability is unpredictable. It's much easier to manage workload if requests are pooled. (That's why it's much cheaper for your bank to run a 24/7 national callcentre instead of having somebody sitting by the phone 24/7 in every local branch). bobrayner (talk) 14:05, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Point taken. But we need to make clear where the one-stop shopping I need help/come look at my article etc. place is.

Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 14:53, 22 February 2012 (UTC) Pardon me. I now see the very clear one-stop shopping on the banner. Great! Thanks! Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 23:59, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Update

 * Student list now has bluelinks to drafts containing article template.


 * Article management table for regular articles now populated with same links to drafts.


 * Universal banner now present at all draft talks.


 * Raw list of draft articles created for easy watchlist update.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:57, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 00:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * This is great, especially the raw list. Question: is it ended only for helper use, or for student reference also?


 * It's really just for internal use. Students aren't given links to it. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Centralized help page
Helpers: Please watchlist: School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Help. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:46, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice work. Duly watchlisted. bobrayner (talk) 13:05, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Update - all done!
Everything on the helpers' end is done. All articles are bluelinked with templates. Now students can add content. Our role now is:


 * to be here if they need help;
 * to keep an eye on their progress in case we need to jump in for some reason (eg. copyvios);
 * to come back when Josh says they are all done, and check the articles.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:20, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * What are we doing for the translation students? Will we let them translate the title too? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Wctaiwan and Josh hashed out the English names at IRC. I've already started the pages: example. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:12, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Wooo What a Jazzy
The users may need to be advised not to create articles in the mainspace. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 12:04, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * For this one the topic was a CD, but it was not written in English. Also the students need to know not to copy other web sites. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:03, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't figure out how to see who the original creator was. What class? Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 03:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The original creator was NNUJ05VanYao05090516. The content was, "Jazzin’ for Ghibli」を筆頭にシーンのパイオニア的存在として傑作を輩出してきた天才トラックメーカーS.A.L.muramasaの新プロジェクト「ROMANTIC PRODUCTION」遂に始動. ... — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 11:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

When the helpers should help
Should we be working on the articles while the students are still building them? Then the students could see how it all comes together, but we would have to come back to the same article a couple of times for, say, adding extra categories, copyvio checks, etc. Thoughts? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:49, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have made some updates (image, infobox, categories and minor changes) on this page. I think changes like these will motivate the students to expand the page. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 03:06, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I like it! Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:14, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Me too! Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 03:44, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Drafts - new lists
I added a bunch of lists for quick opening in tabs to get an overview of what's going on. I use chrome, and am not sure if columns render in other browsers. Let me know if it's all one column, and I will change the format. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:37, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Recent changes
Josh said during an IRC that he found the "recent changes" links useful during the Autumn 2011 project. So, Josh and others, if you want to discuss which and how et cetera, the page containing various recent changes links is here:. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:50, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Here are two links. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 12:04, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Recent changes linked to course sub-page
 * Contributions of student participants only

A few issues

 * I'm seeing content added with no references.
 * Josh, I forgot to say, please tell the students about spaces after commas.
 * Should we avoid running reflinks until the end. It adds clutter to articles which may confuse students.
 * Should interwiki links be added while still in draftspace?
 * Perhaps more fields are needed in the management table, eg. see also section, run reflinks, navboxes, interwiki, stubtag, etc. What am I missing?

Thoughts?

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:47, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Interwiki linkss should not normally be added to drafts. Rather, they can either be added by a bot when they are moved to article space, or the link can be prefixed with : which can be removed upon becoming articles. → Σ  τ  c . 04:08, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I think not running reflinks at this stage is a good idea, so long as the references have working links. As you said, it might add to the confusion, and it's quick and easy enough for helpers to do it, anyway. wctaiwan (talk) 04:23, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * For the interwikilinks I like the idea of the : prefix, this can be changed when the page goes live. This brings up another question, when should we be helping wikify or adding infoboxes?  Near the end or as the text is added? Should we be editing and fixing spelling and grammar, or let others in the student team do that? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * See "When the helpers should help" section above. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Your input is very welcome and needed on this matter. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:39, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * This class cycle will focus on references (again) and will mention spaces after punctuation (again). I personally like small "learning-points-type" corrections about vocabulary and grammar, where an identifiable issue is being addressed, and where students ought to be able to see what the improvement consisted of. I think interwikis are constructive, since they lead students to (hopefully) well-written and formatted articles--but by no means essential.

Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 16:54, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Considering pink box bombing
Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:20, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why not，if you would like. I like that it's a single issue message. They've all heard it from me, but it lingers. It's a correctible error that immediately and unfortunately marks their English writing as inadequate, which is a shame. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 16:58, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * No need to bomb those that get it correct, and I would like to see a more serious example of the text as these are not young children! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:11, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, rats! Now I have to dig up the culprits. :) As for the example, do you have suggestions, (apart from nixing the stupid smiley)? :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:25, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You could use an example from student work (with attribution of course) eg Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:26, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * These users have got it correct and do not need to be bombed: NNUR06RachelLi5090613

NNUCSL10MayChen24110122 NNUFCécileShen5090815 NNUFLisaWu22100313 NNUCSL10HelenZhu24110111 NNUCSL10KimLiu24110113 NNUCSL10CathyWang24110103 Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry to waste your efforts, but I am considering just correcting the mistakes and hoping the students notice. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:13, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I will be more active
The fog has finally lifted after 2 months, and I can't bear to be indoors. I will be more active soon. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Back to the fog. :( I am more active again, but I seem to be retarded now, and will likely soon be banned per WP:COMPETENCY. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:13, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

FYI hard copy mark-up
Hello, just thought I would mention that this week have been getting printed mark-ups of their articles, with mistakes or problematic passages underlined, questioned or otherwise flagged. Their instructions for this coming week are to try to address these issues, and to post on the Help page if they have questions. Potentially, help page questions will include grammar and text issues. I hope that's alright. Just FYI. The other option would be to somehow mark-up the drafts online. I don't know how to do that technically, and am worried it would also complicate things for students. All in all, I think the project is puffing along well enough right now, but am as always eager and thankful for feedback. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 06:41, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

New user
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rugratschan is a legitimate student, despite the irregular name. Tried to post Mystrat's rectangle on his Userpage but of course got the page about the User editing his userpage. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 02:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I have added the banners. — Ganeshk  ( talk ) 02:45, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Gan Fu
Hi, The article Gan Fu seems to be a work in progress. I see you are working on other article in your project space so I have moved the article into a project page -- presumably it was misplaced? Pol430 talk to me 15:45, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you kindly. I will notify the instructor to see if this should be included in the list. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:16, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Discussion about the status of the project and our roles
Please see: User talk:Anna Frodesiak

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:10, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Archiving the help page
I'm thinking about manually archiving the older questions that have been answered, as it's getting quite long and drowning out new questions. We shouldn't just use the standard archive boxes though--I'm concerned they're not intuitive enough for students unfamiliar with Wikipedia. I think large-ish links to the archive(s) near the top of the help page, clearly labelled as "Older questions" or some such would work best. Thoughts? wctaiwan (talk) 01:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 16:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I have archived the oldest threads. Hopefully students would not have too much trouble finding them. wctaiwan (talk) 15:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Meeting at IRC
Come if you like. All are welcome.


 * Time: 17:00 China time. (about 40 mins from now)
 * Channel: /join ##NNU_meeting

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:21, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Main points from April 6 IRC meeting

 * Starting now, we can move any article that is adequately sourced, and has reasonable content, to the mainspace. (Pls add cats and talk banners if you do to improve visibilty.)


 * Starting now, we are encouraged to suggest improvements to articles by placing a temporary "Suggestions" section within the actual article just above the "See also" or "References" section.


 * After April 30, we can continue to make suggestions, but can start to clean up the articles, i.e. chop dubious claims, add where borderline, remove weasel/peacock/POV content, format, etc.


 * Josh will bug the students about ensuring adequate amount of decent refs to the proper urls (not website homepages). He will also instruct them to place these refs in multiple/correct places within article body.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:24, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * A suggestions section is inappropriate for an article, so perhaps only use it for the ones in project space. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:31, 9 April 2012 (UTC)


 * While in the Wikipedia talk:School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012 space, I don't see a problem. But obviously, when moved to the mainspace, the section will have to be removed or moved elsewhere. But where? We didn't consider that in the meeting. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:10, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I had assumed, simply removed. If the suggestions haven't been dealt with (and deleted), the article isn't mainspace-ready.

Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 14:16, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm definitely getting dumber. :) Of course. That being said, there are many articles that could get bumped to the mainspace with just a bit of a snip and tweak here and there. I know we said would would only suggest for the next little while, but that isn't carved in stone, is it? I would love to see articles start to hit the mainspace right away and get the students' blood flowing. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:25, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Mainspacing first article?
This article is beginning to look ready: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects/NNU_Class_Project/Winter_2012/Drafts/Tomb_of_the_King_of_Boni]]. When it goes up, it seems to me "did you know" material... Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 22:46, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The standards for Did You Know have dramatically increased in the last year, and I do not think that the article, as it stands, would easily pass without more inline citations and possibly some changes to the tone. I do think that it would be a fairly good article, though. → Σ  τ  c . 05:26, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. The group is pretty gung-ho, so I feel like they would probably be willing to do the necessary work. It would probably take some close guidance from someone more knowledgeable about Wikipedia than me. Any takers? That said, it's not a big priority, given that there are some articles in primitive shape. So if no one takes this on, it's not a problem.

Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 14:03, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Tone should not rule out DYK. It has to be big enough, cited in each paragraph, and have a one sentence "hook", a fact from the article that is referenced. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:10, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Candidates for move to mainspace
I thought I'd try this section. Not sure if it's a good idea, and not looking for a zillion supports. Instead, an Oppose will put the brakes on a potential move. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:57, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Anything 24 hours old with no objections can go, in my opinion. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Chinese People's Anti-Japanese Memorial Hall
With 7 refs, this one looks good enough. I am reluctant to add a feedback section only to ask students to locate and snip minor peacock words. Unless someone objects, I will move this to the mainspace very soon. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:57, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * looks good enough, also should get two refs translated too, and some ( do not have a space before them leading to blue link across the (Chinese. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:06, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Should not 中国人民抗日战争纪念馆 be translated as "Chinese People's Anti-Japanese War Memorial Hall"? -- Vmenkov (talk) 02:57, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The official name is "Museum of the War of Chinese People's Resistance Against Japanese Aggression", judging from the tiny text on their site and Google. Do we have a preference for shorter names, though? It is really quite ridiculously long. wctaiwan (talk) 06:46, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I prefer the "Museum of the War of Chinese People's Resistance Against Japanese Aggression" from their site, with redirects for Vmenkov's translation. (Vmenkov: I see your edits appear in every corner of this project. Very impressive. It is wonderful to see you here. Thank you. :) ) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:44, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, one of the contributors invited me to look over the article about the Tomb of the King of Brunei, and so I learned about the project... I think it is a wonderful initiative on the part of the NNU instructors. I hope some of the NNU student editors will become regular contributors, and maybe even will start uploading photos to Wiki Commons... -- Vmenkov (talk) 05:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I hope so too. There are only a dozen or so images of their uni. We need more! Always more! Maybe one day it will catch on in China, like it did in India. The number of English speakers is certainly skyrocketing here. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:39, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Tomb of the King of Boni
You have my blessings on this one. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:57, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * What do we do with the feedback section? Just clip it out? The article content looks good enough.  You do realise that articles moving to mainspace will be eligible for WP:Did you know, how about we use that when they move? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:09, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the plan is to cut and paste feedback section to article talk with done or resolved. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:29, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I somehow repeated this below. Anyway....
 * ✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:27, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Fruit pit carving
Minor cleanup not worth the feedback section, and links to be added (not within course scope). Good enough for mainspace. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:01, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It still has incomplete sentences ending in ..., and the contruction clues need removing too. But enough here for mainspace.Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:13, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I am also concerned with references; the german (?) one "mehr von" ref is not working; there is baidu... This will run into trouble in mainspace if not corrected... Anyway, I made an evaluation in a "review section".... L.tak (talk) 20:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Tang Xiaowei
Deleting 3 or 4 peacock words and this is ready for the mainspace. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:08, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * We are left wondering what is “One Star” research? Otherwise this could go to mainspace and get a grammar cleanup. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:16, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Mei Baojiu
Deleting a small number of peacock words and minor cleanup, then ready. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:14, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * yeah space and spelling and small amount of grammer needs fixing, some MOS, but would certainly survive in article space. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:20, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:46, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

China Disabled Persons' Federation
Needs cleanup and organization, and that's our area. Very "just the facts, ma'am", which is good. Good enough for the mainspace. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:27, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:50, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Nanjing International Expo Center
Minor cleanup and ready to go. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks OK too. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:53, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed..., + 1 Main point: 1/2 sources unrelated to the expo itself. Using the english title I couldn't find any.... L.tak (talk) 17:39, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:59, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Tomb of the King of Boni
Move feedback section to talk, minor cleanup, and ready for mainspace. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:35, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Repeat of above! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:37, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Certainly good to go (in fact: I do think the refs are good enough to survive a DYK application now). Can someone capable of understanding Chinese remove the links left in the external links section and remove/improve ref 6 (it is now useless at "《皇明文衡∙卷十一》(in Chinese)")? L.tak (talk) 17:14, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll move it now... as the 24 hours have passed. As there are no outstanding issues anymore in the "comments from josh-section" I'll plainly remove it... L.tak (talk) 22:17, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Suzhou Confucian Temple
Minor formatting and removal of baike ref, then seems easily passable. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:04, 13 April 2012 (UTC) ✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Baiju (folk art)
Needs some cleanup, formatting, and has some grammar issues. I think we could handle this and move to mainspace. My reasoning: Suggestions may not work because the grammar errors are varied and probably undetectable to them due to their English level. I can fix it and send them the diff. This may help them most, and be the path of least resistance for the project. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:14, 13 April 2012 (UTC) ✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Yucheng Postal Stop
This group self-nominated. It's a short, translated article (one of several for this group) that seems to me now adequately sourced. I have no further comments for them, so it should either go up or be critiqued on the Help page. I suppose the potential issue is still references, though I expect the information is all contained in the sources they cite. More footnotes? Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 02:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC) ✅ Haha! Record time! Thanks, Anna.

'''Our judgement appears similar. This section seems to have served its purpose in terms of that. I intend on moving further articles to the mainspace without notice here. As long as they're not in terrible shape, and have several decent refs, fine. I suggest we all follow this course. Objections?''' Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:50, 13 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Great. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 17:07, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Comments about moving to mainspace
Be sure to change "Wikipedia" to "(article)". I'm the second helper to do this. If there's a third, we form a club. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:37, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not running reflinks. You can if you like, but we do it to prevent deadlinks, which should survive for a month. It makes real clutter for the students, and in my view, is worth avoiding until the end.

In moving Nanjing International Expo Center, I didn't add lots of links in the article. I thought I'd wait to see if mainspacers will pick us some of that work. If not, I will later on. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

wctaiwan and I agree that at the end of this whole thing, we should swap NNU project article talk banners with something else. In the mean time, leaving them as is can help mainspacers understand, and perhaps participate. Objections? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:53, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * none! great plans as always.... L.tak (talk) 16:59, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Waiting for references
Many articles are ready for the mainspace, but just need a few good references. Pass it on Josh. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:33, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * will do, in Monday and Wednesday classes. However, this is midterm season, so student pick-up will vary. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 16:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Pingtan (artform) duplicate of existing Shuochang
A possible solution: We could copy paste the content into the existing mainspace article with attribution, then move it over redirect to Pingtan (art form) if necessary. First, what is the correct name of the topic? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Google hits for Chinese term:
 * 2.5 million hits for Pingtan
 * 18.5 million for Shuochang

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:39, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

I will probably just boldly paste the contents into the existing with attribution. Hope that's okay with all. Then the students can sort out the new product. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

No. I won't. I will wait for others to advise because they seem different. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:42, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The Pingtan article by students says that it's a regional variety of Shuochang. If that is the case, I would be inclined not to merge the two articles. What prompted your concern that it would be a duplicate? wctaiwan (talk) 04:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see that Pingtan is currently a redirect. I think if that's the main concern, it'd be easiest to ask an admin to delete the redirect to make way for the move (or to just move over the redirect). That way we'd also retain proper revision history. wctaiwan (talk) 04:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * What prompted my concern? Stupidity, haste, and lack of attention to the obvious. :)


 * Best plan: move the draft to Pingtan (art form) and change the redirect to go to Pingtan (art form).


 * What do you think? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:49, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay. I thought about it myself. It seems that if I boldly move it to Pingtan (art form), not much bad can happen, and that might be the end of the problem. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

✅ Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:44, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperor
Redirects to Terracotta Army where the infobox is entitled Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperor. Nobody's working on the draft, so I gather you all know about this already. Just a heads-up in case. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:22, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Did you know
I am nominating some articles for WP:DYK. Some I am not doing as there are large sections that are unreferenced, that would cause rejection.
 * Updated DYK query.svgate:Did you know nominations/China Disabled Persons' Federation
 * Updated DYK query.svgate:Did you know nominations/Wu Mi
 * Updated DYK query.svgate:Did you know nominations/Mei Baojiu
 * Template:Did you know nominations/Wang Zigan‎ (rejected)
 * If they get through the process, the articles will have thousands of page views. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:37, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Updated DYK query.svgate:Did you know nominations/Tomb of the King of Boni‎ is now nominated as well... L.tak (talk) 21:37, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I have suggested a different hook, as the hook fact has to be present in the article, if you approve it can continue. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:10, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Well the standards at DYK are getting higher and higher quality of English is expected also with less point of view (what we see here is promotion of the topic), and thorough referencing on every paragraph. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:34, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

fr.wikipedia.org?
Preliminary interest from an NNU French instructor in adapting the project for fr.wikipedia.org, presumably for fall implementation. Thought I would mention it here, it case anybody had any brilliant ideas about who/what/where/how to go about it. Caveat: no commitment to such a project, but I thought it might not be a bad idea to float it early. Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 14:37, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * He could use this model, go through the Ambassador program, or wing it himself. All three could work out fine. A starting point could be to post at fr. wikipedia's village pump, or ask online at French IRC. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:51, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It would be good to get French speaking volunteers to assist. (I studied French for 5 years but a very long time ago, so I would not be able to help checking, but perhaps with wikification). Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Speedy nom for Guoshan Stele
I don't get it. What happened to the content? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Okay. It looks like the talk page got move to article. The article remains. Let's just wait till Guoshan Stele gets speedied and then move the right one to that spot. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:58, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Request
Hi! We're into May now, and the suggestion/comment phase is over. Helpers can make whatever changes they see fit to articles. Help page questions are getting backed up, and many students feel like they are getting only hard-copy feedback, with the result that some articles are stagnant. I would appreciate more helper input in this homestretch period, given that the project ends May 31. I appreciate all the help so far, and hope we can get more assistance in getting all the articles up! Best, Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 16:39, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Josh. Everything in the mainspace is cleaned up and quite fit. There are 25 still in project space. I see only around 3 or 4 with serious reference issues. The rest can get a good cleanup, a read, and then hit the mainspace. I will be active in the next several days doing this. The ones with bad refs are in the hands of others, and I am scared to source them. Everything is looking pretty good. Comments from you and others is welcome. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:27, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Too late
Such juicy topics. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:58, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I will get on with the final push after the weekend. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:58, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Wrap up
A small handful of articles were either never started or have no hope of entering the mainspace. All the others are in the mainspace now. In the next few days, unless there are objections, I will tick off all for Factcheck, 	Proof, Cleanup, and Final okay. Many are far from perfect, but what the heck, they've all had a lot of eyes on them, and are in reasonable shape. Factchecking is unrealistic, and I think we just need to assume good faith.

So, I will go ahead and green tick everything I can in the next few days, and then, and only then, run reflinks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good. Thanks! Njnu-ban-xueshenghao (talk) 16:50, 2 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Will complete wrap up shortly, which has been delayed by off-wiki matters. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 17:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Universal banner
I guess it's time to modify it. Thoughts?

School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Universal banner

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:39, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * IMO, not much needs to be changed. What about "This page was created as part to the 2012 NNU Class Project, an article creation project involving students from Nanjing Normal University, China" ?

L.tak (talk) 17:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)