Wikipedia talk:Selected anniversaries/December 7

Two executions may be a bit too much. Surely we can replace one with something else... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 06:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Pearl Harbor
I think we may need to remove an event or two from this page anyways. The Pearl Harbor anniversary, although listed on this page, does not appear on the main page. While I understand that well-written articles take precedence over important ones, the Pearl Harbor article is written well and the event is far too important to ignore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.253.72 (talk) 09:19, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree...it had far more significance than the other five, and lends credence to the "Wikipedia is too liberal" argument. Smarkflea (talk) 00:33, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Err, have you not noticed that USS Arizona – sunk during the Pearl Harbour attack – is Today's Featured Article, to mark the 70th anniversary? It's standard procedure not to repeat in "On this day" an event marked in the Featured Article section. BencherliteTalk 00:39, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The featured article is a ship, not the actual attack...Smarkflea (talk) 00:50, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Read the blurb (above). It's largely about the attack and subsequent events.  The photograph is of the attack.  The article was chosen to mark the 70th anniversary of the attack.  Pearl Harbour is not going to be added to "On this day" this year. BencherliteTalk 00:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, how autocratic of you, "Bencherlite". Although the featured article is the USS Arizonia, nonetheless it's still not obvious enough that today is an important anniversary. The actual date (December 7, 1941) is crammed into a large body of text already filled with numbers, and will not be seen at a casual glance. Moreover, people who are not already versed in WWII history will not realize what the article is about. I can assure you most people do not know the names of the ships sunk that day. The "on this day" section is an opportunity to call to mind important events that otherwise might slip by unnoticed, especially by the younger generation, which is most of our demographic here.


 * So this is not an optimal solution. While I agree that we don't need both a featured article AND a bullet point in the anniversary section, there is overall no indication that an extremely important event in world history happened today. A short blurb in the holidays strip up top might remedy this. In any case, omitting any direct reference to the date will surely seem like a slap in the face to many users, which seems to me like pretty poor policy/approach on Wikipedia's part. GrimmC (talk) 14:38, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The box at the top of Selected anniversaries/December 7 says this: Please note that the events listed on the Main Page are chosen based more on relative article quality and to maintain a mix of topics, not based solely on how important or significant their subjects are. Only 5–6 events are posted at a time and thus not everything that is "most important and significant" can be listed. In addition, an event is not generally posted this year if it is also the subject of the scheduled December 7, 2011 featured article or the December 7, 2011 featured picture. So it's not some rule I'm making up of my own initiative.  I'm not even the one who hid Pearl Harbor from the anniversaries box; that was another editor (in fact, the one who is the most experienced custodian of the "On this day" pages on the main page).  Quite why you think that someone would miss the Pearl Harbor detail on a casual glance of the TFA but yet see it by scrolling down the page to a different section... no, I'm afraid I just don't understand your implication that someone would only start paying attention and reading properly at the bottom of the page.  The TFA blurb is less than 200 words, and 7 December 1941 is the only date there.  It's not hard to notice.  You say "There is overall no indication that an extremely important event in world history happened today".  No, that's simply not right.  The TFA blurb says "During the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941..." and I fail to see why that isn't enough. There obviously IS a direct reference to the date on the main page - in fact, you contradict yourself because you mention it in your first paragraph! Perhaps you would like bells, whistles and BIG BOLD TYPE for that, but that's not how the main page works.  No-one is slapping anyone in the face: in fact, on the contrary, a lot of people went to a lot of trouble to make sure that the most important slot on the main page could be about the USS Arizona on this day of all days and so a little thank you to them (I wasn't one of them) wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps these hypothetical users of whom you speak would be more offended by your inability to spell the name of the ship correctly. BencherliteTalk 14:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * As the primary editor on the Arizona article, I think that it suffices to commemorate the attack this year. Hopefully, the main article on the attack will be a FA in time for the 75th anniversary. There's a tremendous amount of competition for space on the front page and I don't think that Pearl Harbor was so important that it should be commemorated each and every year. It looms large in recent history, but not so much in world history. Hell, I'm not even sure that it was more important than the other major Japanese sneak attack; the one on the Russian Fleet in Port Arthur in 1904. That started the Russo-Japanese War which was the first defeat of an Western nation by an Asian one in the Industrial Age.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 15:57, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The facts remain that many people will not notice the commerative aspect of the article. I use wikipedia every day, but I generally don't give the featured article more than a cursory glance. On the other hand, I do thoroughly the "on this day..." section every time I log on. Some people are just more date-oriented; some enjoy straight history, such as myself.


 * Moreover, you may notice that only one other person in this discussion agrees with you, and that person has a vested interest in this discussion. You can be sure many other people disagreed with the situation but didn't take the time to get the talk page, or were unable to find it in the first place. Do you the think the average user/viewer of wikipedia knows how to find this page? It certainly took me awhile. I'm sure certain demographic segments of wikipedia's audience (particularly elderly) are unable to navigate to this section.


 * Finally, it is not your place to determine whether certain users are "hypocritical", nor is my typo of "Arizona" in any way relevant. It is simply a fact that many people are likely to be unhappy/offended/whatever that Pearl Harbor is not noticeably commemorated in the section that commemorates historical events. Even the guidelines you quoted allow for it to displayed. This is basic public relations. Have a good one. GrimmC (talk) 18:00, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * "Hypocritical"?! No, I said "hypothetical".  Please don't misquote me. And it's not just me + Sturmvogel (who hardly has a vested interest in the "On this day" section even today) vs you and Smarkflea: Howcheng made the edit hiding the Pearl Harbor anniversary, so that's one more, and Howcheng's edit was in accordance with the long-established consensus that we don't duplicate material in "On this day" if it's in "Today's featured article".  You plus Smarkflea plus your complete guess that "many" other people are likely to be offended does not amount to consensus to overturn the standard approach to such matters.  As for finding the venue to complain, lots of people are able to find WP:ERRORS on a daily basis - I should know, I'm one of the admins regularly keeping an eye on it.  It's even linked from the top of this page when you try to edit: "Are you here to report an error while this is on the Main Page? Not many administrators are watching this talk page, so you'd be better off telling someone at WP:ERRORS. Thanks!"  I can't say that WP:ERRORS has been exactly flooded with complaints that Wikipedia has made them unhappy or offended them by not mentioning the Pearl Harbor attack twice. Tell you what - I'll complain there for you, linking to this discussion and setting out your main points.  That way you have more chance of your complaint being seen. BencherliteTalk 19:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It is a long-established practice to omit an event from OTD when it (or a related article) appears as Today's Featured Article or Today's Featured Picture. To wit: Pearl Harbor was taken off in 2009; September 11 attacks was hidden in 2008, 2009 (it was later restored as it turned out to be not the subject of TFA), 2010 and 2011; the Hiroshima bombing was taken off in 2010; Hurricane Katrina was taken off in 2008. There are a bunch of other examples but I don't have time to hunt them down now.  howcheng  {chat} 19:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

2012 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 01:08, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Omitted: Cicero; Michel Ney; The Blue Marble; 2007 South Korea oil spill
 * Included: Delaware (2nd appearance, last in 2009; rescued from Ineligible); Attack on Pearl Harbor (6th appearance, last in 2010); 1988 Spitak earthquake (4th appearance, last in 2009; rescued from Ineligible); Ante Gotovina (first appearance)
 * Repeats: Tumult of Thorn (Toruń) (2nd consecutive appearance, 5 total)

2013 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 06:35, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Omitted: Tumult of Thorn (Toruń) (ineligible—maintenance); Delaware; Attack on Pearl Harbor (ineligible—POTD for 2013); Ante Gotovina
 * Included: Day of the Little Candles (5th appearance, last in 2011; rescued from Ineligible); Cicero (4th appearance, last in 2011); Jesse James (7th appearance, last in 2010); Jack Fingleton (2nd appearance, last in 2010); Taipei (4th appearance, last in 2010)
 * Repeats: 1988 Spitak earthquake (2nd consecutive appearance, 5 total; 25th anniversary)

2014 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 08:14, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: Delaware (ineligible—maintenance)
 * New articles (unused): Indonesian invasion of East Timor/Indonesian occupation of East Timor
 * Omitted: Jesse James; Jack Fingleton; Taipei; 1988 Spitak earthquake
 * Included: Michel Ney (7th appearance, last in 2011); The Blue Marble (4th appearance, last in 2011); Napster (first appearance); 2007 South Korea oil spill (3rd appearance, last in 2011)
 * Repeats: Cicero (2nd consecutive appearance, 5 total)

2015 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 08:00, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Omitted: Cicero (ineligible—maintenance); The Blue Marble; Napster; 2007 South Korea oil spill
 * Included: Jesse James (8th appearance, last in 2013); Attack on Pearl Harbor (7th appearance, last in 2012; rescued from Ineligible); Indonesian invasion of East Timor/Indonesian occupation of East Timor (both: first appearance; 40th anniversary); Ante Gotovina (2nd appearance, last in 2012; 10th anniversary)
 * Repeats: Michel Ney (2nd consecutive appearance, 8 total; 200th anniversary)

2016 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 22:51, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Omitted: Attack on Pearl Harbor (ineligible–Pearl Harbor item is TFA for 2016); Indonesian occupation of East Timor; Ante Gotovina
 * Included: Jack Fingleton (3rd appearance, last in 2013; 80th anniversary); Winecoff Hotel fire (first appearance; 70th anniversary); 1988 Armenian earthquake (6th appearance, last in 2013)
 * Repeats: Michel Ney (3rd consecutive appearance, 9 total); Jesse James (2nd consecutive appearance, 9 total)

2017 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 16:58, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: Taipei (maintenance)
 * New articles (unused): Akatsuki (spacecraft); Barbara Howard (artist)
 * Omitted: Michel Ney (ineligible—maintenance); Jesse James (ineligible—maintenance); Jack Fingleton (ineligible—maintenance); Winecoff Hotel fire (ineligible—maintenance); 1988 Armenian earthquake
 * Included: HMS Spiteful (1899) (first appearance); Attack on Pearl Harbor (8th appearance, last in 2015); Indonesian invasion of East Timor/Indonesian occupation of East Timor (both: 2nd appearance, last in 2015); Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 (first appearance; 30th anniversary); 2007 South Korea oil spill (4th appearance, last in 2014; 10th anniversary); Charles Saunders (Royal Navy officer) (first appearance); Willa Cather (first appearance); Martha Layne Collins (first appearance)

2018 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 17:05, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Omitted: Attack on Pearl Harbor; Indonesian invasion of East Timor/Indonesian occupation of East Timor; Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771; 2007 South Korea oil spill; Charles Saunders (Royal Navy officer); Willa Cather; Martha Layne Collins
 * Included: Cicero (6th appearance, last in 2014; rescued from Ineligible); Jack Fingleton (4th appearance, last in 2016; rescued from Ineligible); 1988 Armenian earthquake (7th appearance, last in 2016; 30th anniversary); 1993 Long Island Rail Road shooting (first appearance; 25th anniversary; finally made it in after having been added ); Richard Bellingham (first appearance); Hamilton Fish III (first appearance); Barbara Howard (artist) (first appearance)
 * Repeats: HMS Spiteful (1899) (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total)

2019 notes

 * Moved to Ineligible: Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 (maintenance)
 * New articles (unused): Upper Canada Rebellion
 * Omitted: Cicero; HMS Spiteful (1899); Jack Fingleton; 1988 Armenian earthquake; 1993 Long Island Rail Road shooting; Richard Bellingham; Hamilton Fish III; Barbara Howard (artist)
 * Included: Tiberius II Constantine (2nd appearance, last in 2017; previously appeared on August 14, his death anniversary); Jesse James (10th appearance, last in 2016; rescued from Ineligible; 150th anniversary); Operation Frankton (first appearance); Indonesian invasion of East Timor/Indonesian occupation of East Timor (both: 3rd appearance, last in 2017); Akatsuki (spacecraft) (first appearance); Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi (first appearance); Charles Garnier (missionary) (first appearance); Noam Chomsky (first appearance)

2020 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 07:13, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * New articles (unused): Ambrose
 * Moved to Ineligible: Attack on Pearl Harbor (maintenance)
 * Omitted: Tiberius II Constantine; Jesse James; Operation Frankton; Indonesian invasion of East Timor/Indonesian occupation of East Timor; Akatsuki (spacecraft); Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi; Charles Garnier (missionary); Noam Chomsky
 * Included: Cicero (7th appearance, last in 2018); Battle of Montgomery's Tavern/Upper Canada Rebellion (both: first appearance); Jack Fingleton (5th appearance, last in 2018); Ante Gotovina (3rd appearance, last in 2015); Theodor Schwann (first appearance); Joseph Cook (first appearance); Jeane Kirkpatrick (first appearance)

2021 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 08:35, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: HMS Spiteful (1899) (maintenance)
 * New articles (unused): Nicholas Hoult
 * Omitted: Cicero; Battle of Montgomery's Tavern/Upper Canada Rebellion; Ante Gotovina; Theodor Schwann; Joseph Cook; Jeane Kirkpatrick
 * Included: Tiberius II Constantine (3rd appearance, last in 2019); Battle of Prairie Grove; Indonesian invasion of East Timor/Indonesian occupation of East Timor (both: 4th appearance, last in 2019); Galileo (spacecraft); Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi (2nd appearance, last in 2019); Willa Cather (2nd appearance, last in 2017); Robert Graves (2nd appearance, last in 2021; also appeared on July 24, his birthday)
 * Repeats: Jack Fingleton (2nd consecutive appearance, 6 total)