Wikipedia talk:Swedish Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 1

I created this Archive just now. I have the impression none of this is the least active anymore. Fred-Chess 16:21, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Sweden cities and maps
I don't want to clog up your talk page about these matters that do after all concern Sweden in general, so I write it here. Working on the most recent suggested project, Sweden geo stubs, I noticed Swedish wikipedias fine maps, e.g.: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trelleborgs_kommun. Maps are something we are in the need of. I've noticed User:Mic doing some maps, but more are needed. We really have no maps of where cities are located and I think it sucks. Not even Malmö has a map of its location.

I did a check with lantbruksmäteriet and their maps are copyrighted, and they charge a lot for the use of them, and would probably not allow them on wikipedia anyways. So do you have any other suggestion?

As another examples of usefulness, I would have liked a map of Sweden where the monasteries in the medieval age are marked. --Fred chessplayer (talk) (edits) 12:19, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * There might be older (PD) publications to use for historical maps; if they are not up to date with later research, scanning them may at least provide a good departure point for editing in an image program with the aid of newer reference works. Likewise, for historic parts of cities which remain unchanged, the Nordisk familjebok maps may be used. I was thinking of using a cropped version of the NF Uppsala map for the area around the cathedral and the old university buildings, which looks more or less the same today as in 1920. The NF Stockholm map can probably be used for Gamla Stan in Stockholm, but it is obviously useless, except as a historical map, for large parts of Norrmalm. Central Lund probably looks familiar from the NF map. Uppland 10:44, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sweden geo stubs
There is currentl a page for all muncipalities. However, ther is not a page for the cities with the same name. Should we write info about the city Ystad at Ystad Muncipality? There is currently no page about the city Ystad, (nor about many other cities: Trelleborg, Kiruna, Karlskrona...) --Fred chessplayer (talk) (edits) 10:08, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The cities should get their own pages, but there is probably no reason to separate the material until it gets large enough to be more than two stubs, unless there is a good structural reason to do so. At this time, even the largest Swedish cities/municipalities have relatively small articles which need a lot of expansion.


 * BTW, a couple of historical geographical units which should be entered:
 * the historic parishes (socknar)
 * the hundreds (härader)
 * This is a lot of work and may not need to be done manually. I am wondering if there might be a few good, freely usable databases somewhere which could be tapped into Wikipedia with the help of a bot. Uppland 10:59, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

tätort
I will skip the notion of tätort from now on, until anyone provides a similar English term that is actually in use. It is too confusing to explain that Sundbyberg borders to Stockholm and is part of Stockholm tätort, especially since tätort is only used for administrative purposes. --Fred-Chess 14:58, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe that the proper translation would be: Sundbyberg is a town(ship) which is part of Stockholm's conurbation.--Wiglaf 19:24, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Translation of "Församling"
The Church of Sweden administrative unit "församling" is sometimes translated to "congregation" here in Wikipedia. This seems to be incorrect. "Parish" should be used instead, and frequently is (as in Category:Church_of_Sweden_Parishes), but after encountering a number of examples of "congregation", I'm adding a note here to alert you to the problem. Please fix it when you encounter it. (I just fixed it at Östermalm, but Spånga-Tensta borough is another example.)

If anyone wonders what the difference between the terms is, the Wikipedia articles pretty much explain it all. The parish article specifically mentions that the word is used in the Church of Sweden (and it is indeed the translation used on their own web page). Although "congregation" can also be translated into Swedish as "församling", the article congregation (worship) indicates that this mainly refers to a group of individuals attending a church, rather than an administrative unit. / Alarm 13:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Swedish popes?
Could anyone explain why List of popes appear in the Resources section? / Alarm 29 June 2005 14:05 (UTC)


 * I suspected this question would pop from you :-)
 * Well the reason is of course that all popes are Swedish! Combine the word pöbel and pappa and you will see that they both mean Pope. The Swedish King appoints all Popes in a cermony at Drottningholm and then directs their actions. So we need to include them. Also important because popes are so cool!!!!!!!!!!!
 * Ok seriously, the list was used while writing Archbishop of Uppsala and may not be needed anymore.
 * --Fred-Chess June 29, 2005 14:18 (UTC)

New sections
I've added several new sections on the project page. I hope you find them useful. Under "News", please list any ongoing debate, vote and decision concerning Sweden-related issues, such as COTW nominations, naming discussions and VfDs. / Alarm 29 June 2005 14:15 (UTC)

Swedish nobility

 * First message moved from User_talk:Radiant! to Uppland's talk page and then from there to here.

Since you are the only one to vote on my nomination of Category:Euler on the CfD page, I'll ask you for your opinion on a related issue before bringing it up on a more public discussion page. I question the value of categories such as Category:Swedish nobility as applied to biographies. This could be a useful category if it were applied to institutions associated with the Swedish nobility, but would end up too large to be meaningful if consistently applied to biographical articles, at least for some countries. There are several similar categories (Category:German nobility, Category:Italian nobility etc), and neither the "nation" part of the category nor the "nobility" part is that simple to define or delimit in a longer historical perspective. Uppland 06:12, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry, this slipped below my radar. I believe you're saying that people shouldn't be in those categories, but instead in subcategories, such as Dukes of Foo. Is that correct? If so then I'm afraid I disagree, since there doesn't exist a subcat for each particular class of nobility, and many of those are rather small to begin with. Yours, Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 10:11, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)


 * No, actually, my point is that I am skeptical about using Category:Swedish nobility for individuals at all. And if we really want to classify people this way, we have to
 * make sure we use historically meaningful categories, i.e. those based in historically existing legal and social systems (rather than on anachronistic use of nationality and generalizations about class), and
 * make sure people thus categorized actually belong to the group in question, and aren't categorized just because of a "von" or some other spurious reason. For instance, categorizing Max von Sydow as "Swedish nobility" just because he is Swedish and has a name with a "von". Someone did this, but I later removed the category - the problem is that the von Sydow family is not noble, despite the name, but actually encompasses an ennobled but now extinct branch. How is anyone to know this without detailed genealogical information?
 * It sems to me that this category is doomed to be misused. And still, compared to some other countries, the Swedish nobility is very well-documented and (in theory) easy to delimit, at least from 1626 and later. Categorizing "Italian" nobility is probably even more difficult to get right. (Venetian? Papal? Florentine? Napolitan? Italian families with nobility from the HRE or Austria or the Napoleonic empire?) I am not sure if I am making myself any clearer... --Uppland 11:02, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Revamp of Suggestions section
As you can see, I've messed around quite a bit with the Suggestions section. I basically divided it into sub-sections for "Requested articles", "Requests for improvement/expansion" and "Requests for attention/review", plus a link to the new Image requests page (thanks, Tup!). Then I added a selection of red links from the sub-articles of List of Swedes and Geography of Sweden. I think an extensive list of requested articles serves a purpose as a source of inspiration, but if it takes up too much space we could always move it to a subpage. / Alarm 30 June 2005 16:14 (UTC)

IPA
I have never been able to see the IPA as much else than boxes; however when I was a n00be here I didn't bother; I didn't think it was possible to solve. But apparently it is possible to force all browsers to render IPA characters as they should be, which I have noticed on many pages, and now lately on de:Stockholm. So I propse we should do it too. If you guys just state some support of this, I can request Peter Isotalo to do it as he has I think inserted a lot of IPA transliterations. --Fred-Chess July 5, 2005 23:20 (UTC)

One more subpage
I noticed that a few of the red links on "Suggestions and requests" had turned blue. This is of course a cause for celebration, so rather than simply removing them, I created the subpage Swedish Wikipedians' notice board/Completed requests and finished projects in order to record our achievements for posterity. I think this might be a useful list and I will personally try to keep it updated. If nobody objects, I'll move the "Finished projects" section of the project page there as well. / Alarm 12:26, 11 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I would feel honoured if you did. --Fred-Chess 13:51, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Naming discussion II: SÄPO
Excuse me if I bore you, but there's another one: In my opinion, SÄPO definitely ought to be moved to Swedish Security Service. I doubt the SÄPO acronym is much used in an English language context. It isn't even the official Swedish name/acronym. Swedish government sources seem to use the Swedish Security Service in English translation. The same here: please comment on Talk:SÄPO. / Alarm 15:07, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Since there were no objections to this, I've moved it now. / Alarm 18:22, 26 July 2005 (UTC)