Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive 13

Formation of Wikimedia Philippines without needing P1M
To Sky Harbor, seav, Lenticel, titopao and Nino Gonzales. Just in case you don't regularly check you emails, I emailed you guys regarding some tips on how to register Wikimedia Philippines without needing P 1M. To the other participants, I wasn't able to email you guys because your email addresses are not readily available to me. If you are interested in these tips, please feel free to email by using the "Email this user" feature so that I can forward it to you. Thanks. --Jojit fb 11:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Oooh...I'm a head honcho :D. At least this is good news.  The SEC was very unclear about incorporation.  -- Sky Harbor  13:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The "honcho" comment was made by Gerry Kaimo, brother of Mari Kaimo and famous for the pldt.com vs. PLDT case, the very first domain dispute ever filed in the Philippines. He has the wrong impression that Wikimedia Philippines is being organized by high school students because one of the main proponents is you. For those who didn't get my email, our 2nd meet-up talk page was posted in PH-Cyberview yahoogroup about a month ago and then Wikimedia Philippines became a threaded discussion. Some of the regular posters there, including Winthrop Yu and Jim Ayson (the one who posted the link), are pioneers of the Philippine internet industry. Winthrop, the one who gave the tips, is involved of the Philippine Internet Commerce Society, a non-stock and non-profit organization. --Jojit fb 11:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool. The 1M was a really big hurdle. --seav 13:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I also read your email, but I haven't had the time (at the time) to digest its contents. But, yes, it does look like a good heads up. Regarding email addresses, I'll try responding to your email and I'll CC the others so that you'll know their email addresses as well. --- Tito Pao 20:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Read the e-mail then breathed a sigh of relief. Well I was thinking of joining Wowowee for the 1M... but at least we could now rest easy. By the way, maybe we could ask a Senator or a Congressman to champion (fund) our cause. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just read the email. Perhaps we could invite the guy for Manila 4. Hehe. I'm in my meet-up mode right now.--Nino Gonzales 06:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you mean Winthrop? I guess we should also prepare a formal letter to invite him for Manila 4. --Jojit fb 07:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Agenda for Manila 3?
Moved to appropriate forum: Wikipedia talk:Meetup/Manila 3 --Jojit fb 04:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Philippine census link on city/municipality articles
I'm questioning whether we really need the link (www.t-macs.com/kiso/local/) that's on practically every city and municipality article. First of all, the site is Japanese. And second, the 2000 census reference (as a footnote in the leading paragraph, or demographics section if the article is more than a stub) should ideally be under the references section and should link to the official NSO census report like this one for Zambales.

I guess we need a mini-task force for this? (Well, aren't we a WikiProject, too?) So I guess we need a Tambayan subpage to keep track of which provinces have been fixed already for this task. --seav 19:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

2000 Philippine census data
Speaking of census data. Has anyone here downloaded all the 2000 census data text files from NSO? The NSO has just conducted the 2007 census and we don't know if they would replace the 2000 data or retain it for archival purposes. While we of course would need to update the population figures when the results come out, the 2000 data is still useful in the demographics section of articles (e.g. to show growth). --seav 02:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Series television ratings
Do we really need to include the daily ratings of TV programs in their articles? I noticed that the MariMar and Kokey articles have daily rating in their respective articles and I think that they should be removed per WP:NOT. -Danngarcia 16:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree 100%. harlock_jds 16:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not outright removal, what's better is to have a summary of the ratings, like what it's ratings at the premiere, did it sustain it, was it overtook, etc. We should have a place for this, though. I suggest to emulate what List of Australian television ratings for 2007 does. -- Howard  the   Duck  17:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I can see a short summery but a table with the rating of every ep (for a daily show even) is really excessive and should be removed outright. harlock_jds 17:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You can remove it but the other anons will add it back, so it's futile, to say the least. That's why having a summary, like this:
 * Program A debuted as the top-rating show for the day, and sustained it for a month. However, with a debut of new Program B from Network B resulting in a dogfight in the ratings war, which resulted to lower ratings with Program A. Further decline necessitated Network A to end Program A's run, with still respectable numbers in the Mega Manila demographic.
 * That way, anons will not add daily numbers and will rather have constructive edits, in which they'll even analyze PEP.ph's numbers before editing. -- Howard  the   Duck  17:34, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * the only problem with your suggestion is that analyzing the numbers and presenting a summery like you presented would be considered original research and also should not be a part of the article. As for the edit being futile... if their was a discussion on the talk page about the edit and then it was removed but it kept on being added despite the clarifying of what wikipedia is not then it would be considered vandalism and eventually it would be protected so anon IP's couldn't edit it.


 * Personally i'm not going to edit those pages because i don't have the time to keep up with them. However if a table like that was added to a page i did have an active role in editing (like say wowowwee) it would be gone very quickly (unless someone showed me that my understanding of WP:NOT was wrong) harlock_jds 18:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * PEP.ph usually has some sort of analysis (their headlines are an example), while the tabloids are just bare information. -- Howard  the   Duck  02:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Try emulating Lost or Heroes or Gossip Girl ratings article style. Both summary (in main article) and rating-per-episode tables (in separate article). Berserkerz Crit 19:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Perna viridis picture request
This is just tahong. Yup, the green mussel found in the marketplace that kills during red tide season. I think it needs a picture (I have no digicam) before it gets DYK'ed (I can't nom my own creation right?). Thanks in advance. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Will try, but my phone is low-res so I can't really upload any good ones. Yup, you can self-nom your own article in WP:DYK. :p Shrumster 20:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

mined the commons but all I got was a black and white picture which is not a good image for the mussel-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: already a DYK nom-- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:00, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Added B&W image but will still wait for a colored one -- Lenticel ( talk ) 04:31, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

La Salle vs. Ateneo. In The New York Times.
Read this NYT article. Written by an Atenean. POV? Hehehe. :-) --seav 17:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Sad Thing
I know this is not the venue for this but i was just struck. Some prominent universities here in Philippines don't believe the reliability, credibility and veracity of Wikipedia as a source for it has many contributors and the likelihood that it is not reliable anymore. BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 12:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ouch. Can you name some of these universities?  This is becoming sort of a growing trend worldwide.  -- Sky Harbor  12:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * As well it should... At best Wikipedia is a portal to find more information about a subject (by looking at the Cites in a article and other related links) but NOT a stand alone reference for anything. Using wikipedia as a reference is just silly.harlock_jds 11:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Would it be "OK" if I name it? BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 12:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Whoa. Let's clarify first. Reliable and credible for what? As a former UP professor specializing in social science research, I rarely if ever allowed a Wikipedia entry to be used as a reference in a manuscript or paper. But that's not saying I think Wikipedia is not a reliable and credible source of information. (I would think since I'm a Wikipedian, it should be taken for granted that I believe Wikipedia is credible!) That's because I have come to insist that researchers ALWAYS look for primary or secondary literature in whatever field they're covering. Which is to say I did not allow students to cite Wikipedia, which is tertiary literature. But at the same time, I also refused to accept citations from other encyclopedias - which are also tertiary literature. The same goes for dictionaries, almanacs, and other Gen. Ref. materiel. I used to tell my students that they can use encyclopedias, dictionaries, almanacs, etc, as starting points for research, but not as citations. What they're supposed to do is look for the sources cited by the article, and examine those sources, making sure that they are using those sources in the correct context. (There are rare exceptions, of course, but by the time I allow the student to use an encyclopedia, they're usually begging me to allow them to because they can't find or afford the sources cited by the article concerned.) I understand your concern, though. Before I really looked into how Wikipedia did things, I was quizzical myself. But eventually people who are exposed to Wikipedia will be convinced of what a good thing it is. It just takes time. :-) Alternativity 15:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Brit'! You may also want to take a look at this page where, among other things, it mentions that major universities discourage citing not just Wikipedia as a research material but all enyclopedias in general. Actually, IMO, an encyclopedia is just that: a compendium of general knowledge. For me, it is still the student's responsibility to look for more definitive resources. Personally, I use Wikipedia as a starting point in doing my personal researches, something like a roadmap or a guide.


 * You may also want to note that Wikipedia has its own disclaimer, and many teachers who often prefer that their students choose a real, multi-volume hardbound encyclopedia are not aware that even these encyclopedias also have their disclaimers.


 * With regard to naming these educational institutions, go ahead and name them, there's nothing to lose ;-) --- Tito Pao 18:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW, by universities, do you mean official decrees or just the personal preferences of teachers? As a life sciences instructor, I don't accept citations of WP as well (somehow, the question of other encyclopedias never came up). However, my students are free to mine WP for all the references and external links they can find, which are good sources of reliable information especially for well-cited articles. However, I wasn't aware of any university-wide rule at the time I was teaching. Shrumster 20:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Heck, I agree. Citing Wikipedia as a source in a college paper is just sloppy. TheCoffee 22:06, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Not a sad thing but actually a good thing. I don't want students getting too lazy to go to the library-- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually it's clear who disclaims Wiki as a source. Actually the notion as not to be a credible source is not the issue now. I still believe the credibility of this site. It's clear to me that some teachers wanted to find some primary or secondary source. If that so, some Wikipedians would lose the dedication to improve wikipedia because some Wikipedians pressume that most students refer to this site.BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 03:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedians would lose the dedication to improve wikipedia because some Wikipedians pressume that most students refer to this site.[citation needed]
 * hehehe... †B lo o d p ac k† 03:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Heheheh...bloodpack, you beat me into that ;-) Who said that only students are using Wikipedia? If you read the links I provided, one of those mentions that even scientific journals also cite Wikipedia. The Wikipedia Signpost (somewhat Wikipedia's unofficial newspaper/newsletter) now reports that even judges cite Wikipedia articles on official court rulings. One of my original articles, in fact, was even paraphrased (or maybe plagiarized? =P by the Philippine Daily Inquirer. And yet, these people are very much aware of the issues surrounding Wikipedia. Despite perceptions of credibility weaknesses, they still use WP articles. And yet, shouldn't these people---these professionals---be in a better position to maximize primary and secondary sources? Come to think of it, can you give me a notable website that doesn't have its fair share of credibility problems as Wikipedia does? =P --- Tito Pao 04:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd say, the hell with it. Let's just all enjoy this wiki wiki world while it lasts ;] †B lo o d p ac k†  05:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hahai. This "citation" again. Poor, cannot cite. With regards to Titopao's comment, I know. I just set students as an example. Anyway, I would agree to Bloodpack. Let's enjoy this Wiki world. BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 09:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the universities get it yet. Wikipedia has forever been saying that it is sloppy scholarship to use Wikipedia, or any encyclopedia for that matter, as your main resource (it is of course a great starting point). The teachers and educational institutions that get it, however, use the World of Wikipedia (meaning what goes behind it) to teach students how to do research, write collaboratively, edit, make neutral assertions, etc. by participating in the creation and development of Wikipedia articles. See WP:SUP. IMO, this can be one thrust of WMPH--to help local teachers get it.--Nino Gonzales 01:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * bottom line, they don't recognize it as reliable =/ †B lo o d p ac k†  23:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Bottom line, any encyclopedia should not be used as basis for making scholarly assertions. But it is a great starting point, and it is a place to learn a lot of skills you need to be a good scholar.--Nino Gonzales 01:44, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Philippines article
The "Philippines" article is really in need of a complete overhaul. Even the Introduction part of the article is sloppy enough. I'm sure you guys are aware of the recent vandalisms (as well as some innocent misinformed newbies) about the Philippines article. I suggest that you closely monitor it and place it under "Editing for Members" only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.175.228.108 (talk • contribs)


 * Only a few of us here are administrators, so I guess you can best try visiting this page if you really want an admin to intervene. Having said that, there are still other things that you can do to remedy this. If you spot vandalism on an article, go ahead and revert it, you are more than welcome to take the initiative, no one's stopping you from doing this. But if you really want the article to be protected from vandals, try making a protection request. Be aware, though, that not all requests are granted, it would depend on how heavy and how frequent recent vandalisms are. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 22:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * By the way, I took a look at the article again to see what you mean by the "sloppy" introduction. Are you referring to why the lead section looks like a hodge-podge of information? A Wikipedia lead section is (ideally) a summary of what the article is all about---meaning, if you take everything else away, the article should still stand on its own. Be that it may, I would rather keep it that way for now. Also, I suggest that you make your comments heard on the Philippines talk page so that that article's active editors will hear out your suggestions. Thanks again. --- Tito Pao 22:20, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

1st class highly urbanized cities
Greetings. I know little about the Philippines. I came to the article Baguio City (linked from World Chess Championship) and read the opening sentence:
 * The City of Baguio (Ilokano: Ciudad ti Baguio; Filipino: Lungsod ng Baguio) is a 1st class highly urbanized city in northern Luzon in the Philippines. 

I had absolutely no idea what "1st class highly urbanized" meant, and I hit "Edit" in order to delete these words as I assumed they were just nonsense. I discovered that the wikilink under "city" went to Cities of the Philippines and that 1st class highly urbanized means something very specific. So I've changed the wikilink to:
 * The City of Baguio (Ilokano: Ciudad ti Baguio; Filipino: Lungsod ng Baguio) is a 1st class highly urbanized city in northern Luzon in the Philippines. 

which gives the non-Filipino reader a clue that this is actually something that is meaningful. I suggest that a similar change should be made to any similar wording in other Philippines city articles: Zamboanga City is one; I'm sure there are many others. jnestorius(talk) 00:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback. I personally think that this classification info about cities and municipalities should not be in the lead section. They're better in the infobox and the Economy section. --seav 02:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you may have a point. Wherever the information is given, it should in any case have a very obvious link to Cities of the Philippines, so that readers are not as confused as I was. jnestorius(talk) 12:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This is rather widespread. It also occurs in municipalities. Maybe a bot to "cure" this? Perhaps we can create a new all-Pinoy bot... -- Howard  the   Duck  12:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The Commission on Audit has recently published in major dailies, the income of all cities and municipalities in the Philippines, there were at least a number which weren't able to submit their financial reports as of July 15, 2007, which was the cut-off date, they may provide additional item in our infoboxes. --Scorpion prinz (Talk 14:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

2007 Philippine National Broadband Network controversy
I can't believe we still don't have an article on this. This is almost as important as the Hello Garci scandal because this also affects the Philippines' foreign relations with PRC. The Manila Times also has a feature today on Benjamin Abalos which we can use to beef up his biography. --seav 01:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Go seav! --Scorpion prinz (Talk 02:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Some info are at ZTE. -- Howard  the   Duck  02:44, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I think its just The Philippine National Broadband Network controversy, and without a year †B lo o d p ac k†  03:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Change controversy to scandal too. -- Howard  the   Duck  03:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, use 'controversy' per Wikipedia:Words to avoid. Also, let's leave out the article 'the'. --seav 04:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * here it is, Philippine National Broadband Network controversy, for the meantime †B lo o d p ac k†  04:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * When time comes, controversy can be changed into a scandal as per political scandal and Hello Garci scandal. -- Howard  the   Duck  04:51, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Assuming that 'scandal' is indeed the most popular term used. --seav 05:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello Garci is now a scandal. NBN is on it's way... especially since Abalos resigned. -- Howard  the   Duck  05:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

i think for now its "controversy" because the issue is still under investigation/ongoing, but as soon as we have a verdict, then we can call it a "scandal(?)" †B lo o d p ac k†  05:59, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I want an article about 2007 Philippine National Broadband Network controversy with accurate information and with images.--Joseph Solis in Australia 09:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The article about the Philippine National Broadband Network controversy is incomplete and no sources.--Joseph Solis in Australia 09:23, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

. The affidavits, the contract and other stuff. Good for references. Check them out.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:48, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Request move:

 * DWLS -> 97.1 Barangay LS
 * DWBR -> 104.3 Business Radio
 * DZFE -> Master's Touch 98.7

These pages were moved to their respective callsigns without discussing it first to their respective talk pages and most FM stations here in the Philippines are more known by their brand names and not their callsigns. Thanks! -Danngarcia 13:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Same for HiT FM. -- Howard  the   Duck  15:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Looking at the template at the bottom of KIIS-FM, I've noticed that all FM stations are named via their callsigns. Now, heading to WikiProject Radio Stations, the naming convention for stations that have callsigns is: "the official call sign should be used. However, in places with a mix of call signs and station names, such as most of Central and South America, the station name should normally be used, except when the call sign is well-known." Seeing they've excluded Latin America, what should be done is to include the Philippines in the excluded territories. -- Howard  the   Duck  16:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposal
Despite the presence of various WikiProjects, Philippine related articles really needs attention: and so much more. Why don't we post targets in the page for Filipino Wikipedians know what to do? BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 10:36, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Philippines stubs
 * Unassessed articles

I've kinda gotten lost. What happened again to our rotating "wiki sub-project of the month" idea fom Manila 2? Sorry guys I had a lot of real-life concerns to take care of after Manila 2 and havent quite recovered yet. Alternativity 15:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There's no rotating subproject yet. But there's the Assessment department for a start. This is not yet on the main Tambayan page, but just linked from this talk page. If there's anyone wanting to do some tasks, tagging and assessing are the immediate concerns. According to the stats, there are 75 tagged but unassessed articles and 117 tagged but unknown-importance articles. Then there are also an estimated 4,000 Philippine-related articles yet untagged. --seav 02:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Next actions
So what's our action regarding the WikiProject? --seav 15:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we could start with the rotating sub-project thingy (I think I already left when this was discussed, my family was too impatient). Let's do just one to test the waters or a mini-Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive for one specific Phil. article.

Hey, did you formulate a plan to get females involved in the Wikiproject? I can't seem to do it on my own-- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Shrumster seems to be female. As a fellow academic, try to woo her. :-) --seav 00:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at his userpage or ask Titopao. I think they're friends-- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Noelledeg seems to be an active wikipedian on wikibreak :-D I met her through her work on the Bangungot page.Alternativity 10:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I can invite my wife but unfortunately she's a Wikipedia critic and reluctant to create an account here. But she said if we are going to have a meet-up in Cebu, she might join us. :) --Jojit (talk) 02:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hm, wait, talking about recruiting members, what precisely are the terms of reference for being part of this wikiproject? What would it entail? Or at least, what's the mission statement? Or the vision statement?  Those would be great guides for where we wanna go with all this.Alternativity 10:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Kidding aside, can we already have a target article or rotating project for improvement?-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please refer to this archived discussion for ideas. --seav 09:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, what about the name? Regarding the Emir214 affair, it was argued that the Tambayan is a WikiProject in all but name only (though an inactive one at that). Do we still stick with "Tambayan" or do we formally adopt the "WikiProject" title. Consider also that the Tambayan effectively functions as a regional noticeboard right now. I personally don't think we need separate main pages for a WikiProject Philippines and a Philippine Regional Notice-board. --seav 05:26, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we should change the name to WikiProject, but somewhere we could use "Tambayan" as a kind of subtitle or something. --Chris S. 05:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I second the motion. Alternativity 10:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we could discuss this by hijacking the Rfd for the Wikiproject name-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Stats as of October 3, 2007

Yay! We finally broke the 1,000 tagged articles count, but there are still tons of untagged Philippine-related articles. Do you share! --seav 14:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

a question...
User:TTN is starting to annoy me. Obviously, this person has some issues based on the messages hes been receiving in his talkpage from other fellow editors. Now, I placed a warning (template) on his talkpage regarding an image that he uploaded, but instead of adhering to the message, he just deleted it. I know its his talkpage, but disregarding a policy is another thing. Is there any warning (templates) to warn him of his actions? †B lo o d p ac k† 23:01, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No worries, I'll take care of the warning for his/her deleting the warning ;-) Let me first review his recent edits to his Talk page for this. I think I now know why he removed it (although he could have responded to it first). The warning that was recently removed identified him as the editor who uploaded an image...but that particular image's history shows that he was not the one who uploaded the image. His only participation on the image page, so far, is to correct/revise the caption. --- Tito Pao 23:24, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand, but instead of correcting the user who initially uploaded the image, he uploaded another image. He didnt warn the initial uploader. Oh well, at least I tagged the image. I'll just wait for it to be deleted til Oct. 10. Thanks Tito! Btw, the image in question is this †B lo o d p ac k†  01:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else going to the Tech Boot Camp '07?
Perhaps we could present what we, the Philippine community, are doing. Maybe some VC would be interested in helping out in setting up the local community. I'm sure some of them are interested in a non-profit.--Nino Gonzales 05:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I could argue the same for the SEMCON Philippines 2007 (Search Engine Marketing Conference) next week. Wikipedia is often on the first page of the majority of search results and I'm quite sure that Wikipedia would be discussed at one point or another in the conference. It'd be interesting to see how the local SEO industry views Wikipedia and other local wiki websites.


 * But regarding the Tech Boot Camp, I think their overwhelming target is for new businesses (i.e., for-profit organizations), so Wikipedia might just be an intrusion of sorts. Unless I mischaracterized the boot camp. --seav 06:25, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I will be there on Oct 16. However, I will not be able to help you since I will be there only for my job. per seav, promoting Wikipedia there would be bad as they target startup companies and these entities need money more than we do. I suggest that we do our promotions in the academe. Yes, I know they brand as an unreliable source but they are the closest allies wecould have aside from other non-profit orgs-- Lenticel ( talk ) 08:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hehe, looking forward to see you there, Lenticel. Seav, it’s great that you are attending the conference. There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about WP. The presence of a Wikipedian should help lessen these. Even the WPinas folks seem to misunderstand very fundamental things about WP.


 * Yes, the majority of the participants would probably be folks who are involved in tech start-ups. But I’m sure they wouldn’t mind hearing about a non-profit tech-related thing. These guys, I’m sure, are very much influenced by the culture of tech entrepreneurship, where, it seems, philanthropy is a given... The old generation... and the new all have their own non-profits... and I don’t think we need to worry about taking away money from local tech start-ups… first of all, I think the help we need is not really monetary but the guidance and wisdom of people who have done this before... second, it is not a zero-sum game. Guys, if none of you would mind, I’ll try to evangelize about the Philippine Wikipedia Community in the bootcamp... at the very least, it could get a few more folks involved in the community...--Nino Gonzales 13:30, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not actually going to SEMCON. First, I got work on that day and second, the reg fee is kinda steep. --seav 05:51, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Tagging Question -- Languages
Hi. I just tagged a number of Language and Tribe related articles and would like to ask a question for consistency's sake.

What I'd been doing all night long was to and then
 * tag major languages (by number of speakers) such as Tagalog, Ilocano, Hiligaynon, Cebuano, Bicol etc as Top
 * tag somewhat smaller languages (by number of speakers) such as Tausug, Igorot, Ivatan, etc as High
 * tag the small languages such as the Botolan language, and the Hanuno'o language as mid

I'm not sure of my categorizations as I was just breezing through the articles. Finding Chabacano labelled Top made me think twice about some of my categorizations. I just realized I'd probably underestimated the number of Chabacano speakers.

Could someone maybe go through my evaluations and perhaps correct me? Or is there a list that sorts these languages according to number of speakers? I'd hate to be told I'm undermining the value of our indigenous languages - they are very important to me. So I'd appreciate categorization help, please? Thanks.

On the other hand, next week, I'll have more time to sort languages more carefully according to number of speakers. Hehe. I'm really asking because I suddenly realized I might have commited a number of embarrasing faux pases. Alternativity 17:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Eep. 607,000 Chabacano speakers. And 1.1 Million Kinaray-a speakers. I can actually FEEL the tomatoes pelting me. (Moving Kinaray-a to Top now.) Or should I just avoid this altogether and sort all the languages as top priority? Alternativity 17:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

It would be better if you left them unassessed for now and wait for a language expert to do the job. I think you could request User:Christopher Sundita to do this.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 20:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I'd label them all as top no matter the number of speakers. --Chris S. 04:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Biased? Hehehe. Personally, I'd also label all the provinces as top, but we can't because there was an agreement at Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Assessment that there should be only be around 500 articles having Top importance. Obviously, 200+ articles on languages, language families, orthography (Baybayin), grammar, etc., would be too much. I think that the all 13 languages (and families) having more than 1 million native speakers should be Top, those having more than 100,000 speakers as High, > 10,000 as Mid, and the rest as Low. Supplementary articles (like Tagalog grammar) will be at one notch lower (so High for Tagalog grammar). Yes, it is all arbitrary, but the importance criterion is only for our purposes as a WikiProject, and not for the general population. --seav 04:37, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Golden Tara of Butuan
I saw the Golden Tara at a UCLA art exhibition in 1981; I even have a picture of it in the exhibition catalog: p.74 of The People and Art of the Philippines, by Father Gabriel Casal & Regalado Trota Jose, Jr., Eric S. Casino, George R. Ellis, Wilhelm G. Solheim II. The catalog is copyrighted by the Regents of the University of California. Now that I know its copyright status, the next time I get to the Field Museum (The link below claims the Golden Tara is in a Gold Room; the museum has exhibits for jewels, Indians, Dinosaurs, Birds, etc) I will look more carefully for it, and attempt to snap a color picture of the statue for the encyclopedia. The statue is about the height of a computer screen, 1.8 kg of pure gold. It was once in the possession of a coconut export company and was purchased by the Field Museum. In all my visits to the museum, I have never seen the statue there, although I have looked for it. A history of the statue can be found here. --Ancheta Wis 18:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm.... is it the same Golden Tara that I know is in the Butuan City branch of the National Museum? See my blog post about the museum. --seav 23:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if it is now resting back in the Philippines, Welcome Home to it. I have an inquiry about it to the Field Museum. The Field Museum tends to be very respectful of its holdings. For example, if an artifact must be handled only by women according to its originating culture, then only women handle it, in the Museum. It would fit that the statue is back in the Phillipines; it is worth far more than the gold of which it is composed. By the way, the same exhibit which showed the Golden Tara also had the Manunggul Jar, which is far more precious, in my view. --Ancheta Wis 23:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And to encourage an article on the Manunggul Jar I have uploaded an image of the jar lid from the publicity brochure here. Maybe we can get a better picture to supersede it. --Ancheta Wis 00:11, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

According to Dr. Bennet Bronson of the Field Museum, what I saw at UCLA is referred to as the Agusan Image and that it was scheduled to be part of an exhibit in the Philippines until some complications occurred there. According to Dr Bronson, the Museum still hopes to exhibit it in the Philippines. I now believe the Golden Tara of Butuan is not the same as the Agusan Image. The Agusan Image has been the subject of extensive writing, so I hope to follow up on this. --Ancheta Wis 11:01, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Myanmar vs. Burma
This has very little to do with the Philippines, and even less with Philippine-related Wikipedia content, but I found the recent extremely lengthy discussion about the move from Myanmar to Burma at Talk:Burma, very enlightening. I personally would've preferred the status quo (Myanmar) but the discussion reveals quite a lot about the behind-the-scenese working of Wikipedia, including the notion of systemic bias. --seav 06:16, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's like Cote d'Ivoire as against Ivory Coast. Ü --Scorpion prinz (Talk 05:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If it is about articles related to the Philippines; I would use Myanmar for articles and if direct quotes use Burma, then use Burma. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * FYI: it's also featured on the Wikipedia Signpost. Here is a link to the article. --- Tito Pao 22:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Askal
Hehe. I found this article while assessing stuff. Can you help expand or at least give a picture?-- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:05, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * di ba ito din yun? ---> Mixed-breed dog aka mongrel or Pariah dog †B lo o d p ac k†  22:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe, but I think we do have our own dog breed. Kasi lahat naman ng aso na mukhang hindi imported eh tinatawag na askal diba?-- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Uhm...you mean to say ung german sheperd sa US askal sa kanila un kasi local sa kanila, pero ung askal naman natin imported sa kanila, vice versa? =D †B lo o d p ac k†  23:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. I think it is a Filipino thing as we suffer a bad case of colonial mentality. I'm not a dog breeder but I saw native dogs with similar tan and black stripe patterns in different parts of the country. Sorry, but I have no proof.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:44, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

so mongrel or pariah dog doesnt fall under aspin dog? they are a different thing? sorry makulit ako hehehe †B lo o d p ac k†  23:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think they do since we don't have another word for it. For example, libre and gratis are simply "free" in English. -- Lenticel  ( talk ) 00:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * made some few editions †B lo o d p ac k†  23:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You might be interested to know that (though this would be OR) in Cebu the Askal is called Irong Bisaya, literally Native Dog.--Nino Gonzales 13:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That info deserves inclusion in the said article. We need to expand it further, pls feel free to add it †B lo o d p ac k†  21:59, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I added the info about Irong Bisaya. Not OR; found a reference.--Nino Gonzales 03:36, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe we could DYK this thing... Let's contact PAWS or Philippine Veterinary Medical Association!
 * Check this out guys, I don't think this is from the Philippines. Might be Afd material-- Lenticel ( talk ) 05:24, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand, in the ORIGIN section, it states In 1924 Philippine Philippine mastiffs to be registered as purebreds. If this species has been registered in the Philippines, does it mean it has been adopted as a Philippine breed? Meaning, it's ours? †B lo o d p ac k† 14:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sadly no. We do have a Philippine Mastiff, but that is a bat:). Checked the Kennel clubs and Google and it leads back into bullmastiff. If they wouldn't recognize the breed, probably it doesn't even exists. Besides, our native dogs look more like ridgebacks, the askal of Thailand (I think we need to delete those kennel classifications in the Askal page). -- Lenticel  ( talk ) 15:14, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks! I understand now. Someone just came up with this †B lo o d p ac k†  15:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

TV Stations
Is a TV station's callsign the standard naming convention for the Philippine TV station's article? I have observed that the standard Television station naming convention (see WikiProject Television Stations) is applied to the U.S. stations (and maybe adopted by other North and Central American TV station articles). -Frj1947 21:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean by callsign but over here, the stations are known by their popular "common names". If they do have callsigns other than their "common names", I'd say that 95% of the people in the country are aware of them. Shrumster 07:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Trivia: GMA-7 Manila's callsign is DZBB-TV. :D Most of the callsigns correspond to the AM/FM stations. -- Howard  the   Duck  08:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I personally don't know what the call signs of the local TV stations are. --seav 08:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * So, it seems there is no agreed standards yet for name convention for a Philippine TV station (not TV Network). I observed that most of the TV stations do not use or call their callsign even in Sign-on or Sign-off. so may I suggest that instead of callsigns as their article name, the network with the location or TV market (i.e. ABS-CBN Cebu instead of DYCB-TV) may be the naming convention of TV stations in the Philippines? -Frj1947 11:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the channel number should also be added, especially if it's well known. Something like ABS-CBN 2 (Manila). --seav 13:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Unlike say, in the US where people refer to the networks via their 3-letter code, a lot of people here (at least central luzon & ncr) refer to the "big" networks by their numbers (sometimes even without the station code thingy). "dos", "siyete", etc. Shrumster 09:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The Barangay notability question
I just came across this AfD for a Bulacan barangay and I think we need to decide in a sort of final manner the Tambayan's consensus stand on barangay articles.

Here are some references:


 * An archived Tambayan discussion from 2005
 * Barangays of Barugo, Leyte
 * Barangays in Cebu City - this used to be an article about Barangay Tisa, Cebu City before consolidation
 * Category:Barangays of the Philippines
 * Deletion discussion for the Barugo barangays template - I explained here in detail why I personally wouldn't like any individual barangay articles.

My personal conviction is that no articles on individual barangays should exist at all. If ever there will be articles on barangays then they should be consolidated articles like List of Pokémon (21-40), which used to be separate individual Pokemon articles. But I will admit that I grew up in Metro Manila and I have no home province (unless you consider Rizal and Bulacan, pre-Metro Manila), so my concept of barangays are kinda limited. There are actually barangays in the provinces that are larger than municipalities both in area and population, so I may revise my position that the existence of barangay articles may be decided on a case-to-case basis, just like the way Pikachu has his own article.

--seav 20:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I did create Barangays of Davao City, grouped into congressional and administrative districts with each district's population. --Scorpion prinz (Talk 22:53, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I created that AfD and my conviction stays the same: there should be no individual article for each individual barangay: not only are they too many, but only a few of them would pass the notability guidelines that the WP community has set. Some few examples of barangays that may pass these notability guidelines would be the now-defunct barangays of old (such as the barangay of Manila during Legaspi's arrival), and Greenhills in San Juan City and Bagumbayan/Libis in Quezon City (site of a well-known cyberpark in Metro Manila). Pulong Buhangin in Sta. Maria doesn't clearly fit the notability guidelines---except, maybe, for its original author who, as it seems, is a resident of Pulong Buhangin and grew up there (his edits and even his own user page reflect this).  --- Tito Pao 00:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This should be our stand: Baranggays are not inherently notable like cities. They could be notable if they were a subject of an important historical event. Just because notable person x lives here or it belongs to a notable x place doesn't mean that brgy is notable as well as notability isn't inherited.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hm. How about Damortis, Sto Tomas, La Union which is much more well known than the town, having once been the end of the railway, and being well known for its daing products? Sto. Tomas, La Union on the other hand is hardly well known at all.  I cite that because I'm familiar with the case. Hehe. If you look at Sto Tomas' town center and look at Damortis, you'd really think that Damortis was a different, and economically more well-to-do town.  Also, isn't Alabang just a barangay of some other city?  Surely Alabang is notable?  Perhaps cases like Damortis would be okay as redirects to Sto Tomas (I mean, most people would be looking for info on Damortis, not Sto Tomas, LU, so I think it's important to have that).  As for Alabang...?  I dunno.   But as a Provinciano, I can tell you that I would not be able to tell you whether Alabang is in Mandaluyong, Muntinlupa, or Paranaque.  So if I'm told I have to meet someone at Alabang Town Center, for example, and I search Wikipedia for Alabang... well, I'd find the search page, I suppose.  But you do see my point, right?  Oh. How about a redirect to a specific section within a town?  Hehe. Just thinking aloud, folks.  But  I suppose what I'm saying is that certain Barangays, by virtue of some economic, cultural, or geographical characteristic, are notable places. Alternativity 04:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, let's test our discussion in the field I just started an Afd for a Baranggay. see the project page. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the Tambayan Philippines Collaboration Department
Welcome to the Tambayan Philippines Collaboration Department! This is part of the proposed dual nature of the Tambayan Philippines: first and foremost, it is a regional noticeboard for Philippine-related articles, and it is now a WikiProject for the Philippine-related articles. The nomination phase for Collaboration #1 is ongoing. Please nominate other articles!

Anyway, we do plan on doing some sort of collaboration-type activites, right? Well, I started the department page to get the ball rolling and hopefully we can avoid the ningas cogon mentality this time around. Anyway, can some enterprising soul modify the Tambayan main page to add the two departments (Assessment and Collaboration) to gain visibility? :D --seav 07:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Comments and suggestions? Please place it in the department talk page. --seav 09:06, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Voting for collaboration #1 is now ongoing, please add your votes, even if it is abstain. Thanks! --seav 11:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Announcement
Please update the announcement. Thanks --Filipinayzd —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.1.25.82 (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

List of Active Wiki Users and Contributors
Here are the partial list of users. We could invite some of them in our meetings. --Exec8 01:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Seav
 * Titopao
 * Nino Gonzales
 * Sky Harbor
 * Jojit fb
 * Scorpion prinz
 * Exec8
 * Lenticel
 * Alternativity is La Union-based, so if Manila meetings coincide with days I'm in Manila (as was the case in Manila 2), I will try to go. Online meetings are fine. :-D  (Please don't equate La Union-based with Ilocano. Hehe. I don't even know the language well enough to hold a long conversation. Hehe.  But if North Luzon Wikipedians wanna meet in Baguio or San Fernando, La Union, I'm game for it, just tell me when where and what kind of food we'll be enjoying. Hehehe.)
 * Berserkerz Crit
 * Jondel
 * TheCoffee
 * Bloodpack
 * Howard the Duck
 * Chris S.
 * Joseph Solis in Australia
 * Princereyn
 * Adkranz
 * Kgargar
 * Shrumster
 * Rizalninoynapoleon
 * Eternal dragon
 * NeGaTiVe ZeRo
 * Fddfred
 * Kurt Guirnela
 * Pikdig
 * Rebskii
 * Noypi380
 * SunKing
 * pinay06
 * Per my note in the main Meet-up page, Ate P is currently out of the country (per her request, I'm not at liberty to disclose where), so we can't invite her. But if you want her to participate on our online discussions, I can let her know about it. Tito Pao 21:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Rodsan18
 * BritandBeyonce
 * Sandtiger
 * Danngarcia
 * Mithril Cloud
 * Weekeejames
 * Glenncando
 * Emperork

Tagalog

 * Emir214
 * Bluemask
 * Mananaliksik
 * Život
 * Felipe Aira
 * Squalluto
 * Filipinayzd
 * Tomas De Aquino
 * Cloudhand
 * Ataman

Cebuano

 * Bentong Isles
 * Edgar S. Godin
 * Jordz
 * Harvzs

Pangasinan

 * Arikasikis
 * Karis

Ilocano

 * Saluyot
 * Tarong

Waray-Waray

 * Bornok 20
 * Juan bahag
 * Harvzs —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harvzsf (talk • contribs) 03:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Kapampangan

 * Val2397

Bikol

 * Filipinayzd - We need editors, not necessarilly native Bikol speakers, who are wiling to create infobox templates, tables etc. for our Wiki. Mabalos.
 * Steven*fung —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sky Harbor (talk • contribs) 06:08, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Book or journal reference for manananggal
Hi all, a few of us are working up vampire for a crack at FAC sometime soon. There is a mention of a philipino vampire-like creature called a manananggal. Was wondering whether anyone had a folklore book which could be cited as a reference with it in. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, will add books in the article soon.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Fantastic! thanks very much! cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I added what I could from my collection. I haven't integrated the references into the body yet, though, so i placed them under "see also". I'm sure Lenticel has a few more. :-D Alternativity 14:55, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Cool! We need to do inline refs for an FAC so knowing what refers to what would be great. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, I'm spoilt for choice. please let me know which one is best suited for the vampire page too. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:55, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I should also point out that if it's a vampire equivalent you're looking for, the Aswang also fits the bill - perhaps even more so because there are some sources that identify the Manananggal only as a subcategory of Aswang, made distinct only by their ability to split their body. Both creatures are known for eating people's innards. Let me point out here, since I cant add it to the main article, that I suspect the counterindications for Aswang and Mananangal (and a bunch of other Filipino mythical creatures) have been significantly influenced by Spanish religious practice. (Which is why I think many of the counterindications match those for European creatures... but that's just me for now I haven't found a sound reference for the evolution of these myths) Casliber, I'm afraid I cant be much help right now with the references as I have a rather bad flu and I can only spend so much time sitting down. hehe. --Alternativity 03:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

LGUs
I commented here because the Wikiproject for Philippine LGUs is inactive. Really, i dont like how the list municipalities for particular provinces are edited. BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 01:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Another image for Deletion

 * I am sick and tired of these tags. I dont know if our IP laws needs to be amended or something needs to be brought to the court. I am not even the one who upload the image in commons. The structure was built by the Quezon City government in remembrance of the 25 brave scouts who died in a plane crash. --Exec8 01:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Can't see the link. Shrumster 08:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed link. -- bluemask (talk) 08:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I move that we bring up intellectual property issues at the meet-up :). We need a common stand on this.  -- Sky Harbor  12:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Tagalog Wikipedia is now more than 10,000 articles
A milestone has been set in the Tagalog Wikipedia, it has now more than 10,000 articles but most of them are stubs about artistas and various geographic places. The credit goes to Wikiboost (suspected to be a bot) for the sudden increase of articles. Personally, I prefer quality over quantity. So far, there are only 13 featured articles, which were identified by the community. I had also been promoting balance of articles in the wiki by completing this list - tl:Wikipedia:Listahan ng mga artikulo na kailangan ng lahat ng wika, the equivalent of Vital articles. By the way the 10,000th article is Bantayan, Cebu‎ by Mananaliksik --Jojit (talk) 00:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I was surpised with this development. Well do we need go forward to 10,000+ or backward and delete those stubs? --Exec8 01:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The articles created by Wikiboost are tagged as stubs, but they're not reflected in the count (as in they're still counted as regular articles). -- Sky Harbor  03:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Glorietta explosion
You guys think it deserves an article? Here's a Y! source so far. Shrumster 08:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It was initially thought that the cause was an LPG explosion, which if true, would deserve only a mention in Glorietta. Now the suspicion is leaning on terrorism because the smell according to bystanders is that of gunpowder (a la new year's eve) instead of LPG, which if true might deserve an article like Rizal Day bombings. Then again, the bus bombing on February 14, 2005 outside Ayala MRT Station does not have an article and is only mentioned in Manila Metro Rail Transit System. --seav 08:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I was at the mall (but not on glorietta 2) when the explosion happened. I was supposed to work on my shopping malls picture gallery project (finished with TriNoma, SM City North EDSA, SM Megamall, SM Mall of Asia). --Exec8 08:24, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You were there in Glorietta? Where exactly did the explosion occur? From the reports and some pictures, it seemed to occur at the second floor of Glorietta two just above Starbucks. --seav 08:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we better wait for further developments (~1 week). I don't want other editors stating WP:NOT in the Afd. If this news article is kept on air for that long maybe we have a promising article. Otherwise it would be better off as an addition to Glorietta.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 08:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I bet that someone will indeed create an article. I have a couple of Wikipedians in mind. :p --seav 08:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I read your mind clearly :)-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In any case, I've been kinda adding stuff to Glorietta's #recent incidents subsection until it's sure that this is a notable terrorist attack or something along those lines. One question...how exactly do we cite a "breaking news" broadcast? Shrumster 09:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Post your headline support here. --Exec8 19:19, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I was eating at Burger King between 1 to 2 in the afternoon, when I hear people shouting outside and I saw people running from the glorietta 2 side. I haven't started taking pictures then. When I was informed on what happened, I was advised by mall personnel to evacuate the mall immediately. Although I am tempted to take pictures of the damaged portion of the mall, I had a deep fear that there may be an aftermath explosion so I decide to evacuate instead. --Exec8 19:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The Glorietta and Ayala Center article needs to be improved. TriNoma and SM Mall of Asia articles are fine for now. --Exec8 19:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * True true. They lack so much info, yet there are still so many broken links.  What can we talk about? There is little to say about Glorietta that it might as well be merged into Ayala Center. æt 'ə' rnal  ðrAعon  05:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's merge Glorietta into Ayala Center as well as other malls/stores there (The Landmark, the Greenbelts, SM Makati [this is a dept store, not a mall, o probably doesn't deserve its own article], Park Squares, etc.) Such merging can make Ayala Center a FA-class worthy article is sufficiently improved. I don't know if the hotels in Ayala Center (Intercon, Shangri-la, Ascott, Dusit, and the planned Marriot) deserve their own articles: they just happen to be in Ayala Center and are not strictly tenats of Ayala Land Inc. --seav 05:49, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia pages on which this incident is placed so far

 * Glorietta - under the recent incidents section
 * Ayala Center - under the controversies (huh?) section
 * Makati City - under the history timeline section
 * Portal:Current events/2007 October 19

The Ayala Center coverage is actually pretty much a copyvio of the Inquirer.net article and needs to be cleaned up. :( --seav 10:07, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Since Shrumster is working on Glorietta, I'll fix the Ayala one instead.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoops. Someone already split off the info into 2007 Glorietta bombing. Shrumster 14:52, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Rizal National Science HS again
This was recently added to the site:

"'Risci, up to now, is still not Department of Science and Technology (DOST) accredited and recognized as a science high school.'"

and it has no citation.

I see that this is something the school admin would have problems with, as its likely an embarrassing situation to them.

Still, I'm not sure what the correct action is here. Is this information irrelevant? I'm not sure. Is this information non-factual? I'm not sure either. Is it NPOV... I don't think so, but I think its on the border. But, no, it has no citation. That at least is obvious.

I've looked at the history of the site and, yes, this is one of those lines that keep getting added and getting removed and added and getting removed. I haven't been a wikipedian that long and I'm wondering what everybody thinks.Alternativity 23:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I added a tag on it. Let him/her who placed this prove it first. --- Tito Pao 00:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I had to add another tag.  It was given a rationalization/explanation, not a citation. Alternativity 15:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I added a warning to the concerned editor's talk page, just so that he/she would know why we had to revert his/her edit. --- Tito Pao 17:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know what agency of the DOST accredits science high schools? And we should have an article for science high schools so others may know what's the big deal about these. -- Howard  the   Duck  15:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * After reading ESEP High Schools, RiSci isn't one of the DOST-recognized science high schools, but it is recognized by the DepEd - I suspect ESEP is a step lower than PSHS and RSHS; with that said, the sentence has to be edited as neutrally as possible, as well as to explain the circumstances. It also seems that RiSci is currently applying to be an RSHS/PSHS school, too. -- Howard  the   Duck  16:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Broken links
Everybody who is creating Philippine-related articles seems to be assuming that there is a page on every building or mall in there. It's a pain looking at all those red links and reading so much irrelevant information about malls and stuff, and in the end, many of them still don't make it past stub class. Take a look at the file histories of Ortigas Center, Ayala Center and others if you don't know what I mean. æt 'ə' rnal ðrAعon  05:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Reflections on the Last Meetup
Sorry for being lethargic during the entire Meetup. I just came from a family get-together in Laguna. I have learned the hard way that indefinite rounds of table tennis and billiards and hours of swimming coupled with three hours of sleep greatly increases fatigue and the chance of waking up aching all over and reduces your the effectiveness of your mental faculties for the rest of the day. Anyways I'll try to comment on what I can remember on the meeting. Add anything that I missed. Comments are welcome.


 * Cohesion- I think this is the weakest part of the Wikiproject and the Foundation. As of now the only way that we actually get more people to work together is when there is something that threatens our existence or our article scope (IMSCF AfD, WikiPilipinas, EDSA pictures IfD and the Presidential trivia AfD to name a few). However, I think we are improving since we already have the assessment thingy and an article improvement collaboration drive.


 * The Hook- We need to work on this if we want to recruit more willing souls for our cause. WikiPilipinas has the hook that if we don't create the articles about us, somebody (foreigner) else will. My opinion our hook should revolve around free content awareness (we could include Open Software once the foundation grows) and that as a responsible contributor, we could show the world that we have the same intellectual capacity to actually contribute good content rather than just use Wikipedia as a reference.


 * Learning curve- we should have at least two dedicated mentors to assist the Filipino newbies. A customized welcome message for Filipinos or a link at the Tambay's might do the trick for advertising the mentorship.


 * Kapal muks and Guts- If I can help in this matter we already have girls here, nuff said.


 * Make do with what we have- So far most of us are either IT professionals or students. I'm okay with Ms. Mandigma's advice that we should have people for various positions that they feel like doing. I think we should have a SWOT analysis for every member and decide which part of the Foundation that member would be most effective. However, this would be most effective once we obtained more active members.


 * Big decision- we should ask ourselves this question. Will we stay as a gentlemen's circle which meet every two months for lunch or are we readyto start and maintain an informal non-profit?


 * Small steps- I agree with Ms. Mandigma's assessment that we should go for small events first rather than big one like a convention or something.


 * Our worst enemy is our best ally- I'm talking about universities and WikiPilipinas. Ms. Mandigma told us that we should have sponsors or other organizations to promote us. For universities (enemy because they don't like their students citing Wikipedia), we should talk with student orgs and hold small events. UP is the best candidate IMO because:


 * RoD has a footing in UP and we can harness their network


 * We have at least two users associated with the university: Shrumster and Alternativity


 * IMO no university loves freedom (libre) more than UP

WikiPilipinas is an enemy simply because the public might get confused why there are two wikis for the Philippines. They are a good partner because we can piggyback on their events thus benefiting both parties. We get promoted and WikiPilipinas will have a more distinct identity away from Wikipedia.


 * Regarding the bylaws- sorry but I really don't remember much of the discussion here and I left early anyway. Maybe we could enlist the help of User:Florentino_floro since he has the most experience when it comes to legal matters-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Southern Leyte Image
Pls do help me with this image. Thanks. --BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 03:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Philippines poverty, wealth charts
I came across the following three related images:

TheCoffee's image shows the source, but I don't know where LordAntagonist got his. What do we make of these? --seav 01:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It's better to add that in Philippines' main page. --BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 02:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The latest figures from the NSCB website are still the 2003 figures used in my map. Those other two should probably be deleted if there's no source. TheCoffee 03:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You may consider this as a great find to update our resources . It has lots of statistics. --Scorpion prinz (Talk 10:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It includes per capita income in USD of the provinces in 2003, as well as their HDI --Scorpion prinz (Talk 11:47, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Articles with long lists
See how Bohol is being edited. Isn't it bad? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a list of stuffs like that. Yah, it factual but it needs a thorough overhaul. PS, consider the images associated. --BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 11:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Important matters
I think there are two important matters we need to address:


 * First, the language subcommittee is having difficulty looking for contacts to verify whether or not the contents of the Bikol Wikipedia test are really in Bikol. We should mobilize for this.


 * I took a look at a handful of articles.  I can verify that they are indeed in Bikol.  What language subcommittee are you talking about? --Chris S. 01:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The Wikimedia Foundation special projects subcommittee on languages. See this.  -- Sky Harbor  22:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Second, I would like to finalize the roll call for the third Manila Wikipedia meetup. So far, six people are going tomorrow.

Anyway, for the first one, if you know any Bikol contacts (preferably university professors or linguists), do refer them to me and I'll refer them to the languages subcommittee.

Tarlac City is a HUC
Well, what do you know. Tarlac City has been a highly-urbanized city since October 27, 2005, according to President Proclamation No. 940. Our related articles are outdated. I was alerted to this fact by an edit summary to Tarlac. I wonder how many other cities are actually highly-urbanized now. Anyway, I'm modifying the various articles now: Cities of the Philippines, Tarlac, Tarlac City, Philippine_cities. Any others I'm forgetting? --seav 08:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The border of the Cities of the Philippines navbox was not fixed, i think. --BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 08:50, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Er, I haven't started modifying articles yet. I'm reading up on things and the implementing rules and regulations state that there has to be a plebiscite for approval and it seemed to have occurred last Feb 2006. I'll have to research some more. --seav 09:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. --BritandBeyonce (talk•contribs) 09:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Whoops. According to this Manila Times article, Tarlac City failed in its bid to become a highly-urbanized city. Furthermore it states taht Puerto Princesa City was the only component city that became highly-urbanized probably since the Local Goverment Code of 1991 was created. So I guess no change to the articles are needed. :-) --seav 09:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Lapu-Lapu City ratified its conversion into an HUC. --Scorpion prinz (Talk 12:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Can't believe it
Pardon news article-- Lenticel ( talk ) 10:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Quezon de Sur
Quezon will be split into two after Republic Act 9495 lapsed into law last September 7. When will the plebiscite be conducted? --Exec8 22:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Another map factoid....
ABS-CBN has done it again. They have posted a black-and-white picture of seav's map ofRodriguez, Rizal for the news "Rodriguez dump reopened for Rizal trash only" without proper consent. Something must be done about this. - 203.87.129.111 11:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I sent their feedback department an e-mail. Since it is my IP, it's my prerogative on what to do. I'll inform you guys of any replies or actions. --seav 13:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If they would recognize images from Wikipedia, we might have a medium to promote the Tambayan. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No reply yet. Either their e-mail address is wrong, or their anti-spam ate my e-mail, or they're ignoring me, or nobody's checking their e-mail. --seav 16:52, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * On second thought, they probably did read my e-mail since the map is now gone and replaced with a screenshot of their reporter doing the TV report. Hooray for C&D! --seav 16:56, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I got a nice e-mail reply from Joel Sarancho, head of Online News for ABS-CBN. Since I do not have permission to reproduce the whole e-mail reply yet, let me quote the relevant part:

We apologize for the unauthorized use. Please note it is NOT a policy of ABS-CBN, much less abs-cbnnews.com to disregard ownership of intellectual property. The use of your licensed image is an isolated case of acting in haste.

Cool! I guess we just need to send polite e-mails to those concerned. Hopefully other media organizations can heed this example as well. --seav 14:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * If you are a kapuso who watch 24 Oras, then you are unaware about this. But if you watch TV Patrol during the barangay elections (October 29), then you will notice that more than 10 local maps from seav had been used. I think the station had abused the GFDL resources available in this website --Exec8 01:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems their web division and their TV division doesn't exchange emails. Net 25 is another TV network that uses Wiki maps. Maybe because they look great, if they're the gray-and-white maps I've created from the blank map from Coffee it won't be used since it looks too basic. -- Howard  the   Duck  02:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Official websites of the 2005 SEA Games are gone.
WTF?! Practically all of the domains related to the 2005 SEA Games are gone. Aaarrghh!!! If I known that the PSC or POC would let the website rot, I would've stored a copy of all the pages, copyright be damned! --seav 16:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * You can check the Internet Archives if they stored a copy. -- bluemask  (talk) 02:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is, I don't expect that the archive has the very last version of each and every page, specifically the results tally. --seav 16:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It turned out that the domain expired last January 2007. It was not renewed. Fortunately IA archived a copy of the website before it expired. http://web.archive.org/web/20070111054323/http://www.2005seagames.com.ph/ It still contains the results pages! -- bluemask (talk) 00:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * In fairness to POC, it takes money to maintain the website, and by the way, PHILSOC, the games' organizing committee, has been dissolved after all the paperworks were turned over to the SEA Games Fed, so there's little way that the website will be maintained. anyway, if you need help with the SEA Games 2005 edition, i can help. --RebSkii 09:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm just worried that we'll lose the primary sources that we can cite for the 2005 SEA Games-related articles. --seav 14:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Manila
Currently, there's a slow-motion edit war at the Manila article; two anons are reverting each other for the lead picture. Either an admin semi-protects it or we revert the infobox to the one that's used for all LGU articles so that there won't be a lead pic. -- Howard  the   Duck  13:22, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Tagalog Uncyclopedia
I'm thinking about this. Anyone else think it is a good idea? -- Howard  the   Duck  07:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Hehehe. --seav 08:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If it would only be me I'd rather blog it :p :D -- Howard  the   Duck  08:44, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

User:MiszaBot III
dont you all think its time that we use a bot to archive this talkpage? †B lo o d p ac k† 03:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * yes, it is time --Nino Gonzales 06:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree. Manual archiving is not that effective -- Lenticel ( talk ) 10:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The only person that ever archives this page is me, and I only do it when the page size starts to bug me. :p TheCoffee 14:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we should remove some of burden off TheCoffee's back-- Lenticel ( talk ) 10:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

i would love to do it, but im having a hard time understanding the method =/ sorry guys †B lo o d p ac k†  23:25, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Contact the bot's owner. Maybe s/he can help.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 07:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

BTW, we could also start with the automatic archiving of the Tambayan with User:MiszaBot_III Like Bloodpack, I'm not good with coding. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

We have automatic archiving now! Courtesy of the bot's owner. Thank him when you got the chance ok?-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:15, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * goodie! =) †B lo o d p ac k†  15:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Zaido: Pulis Pangkalawakan
There is an edit war going on to the Zaido: Pulis Pangkalawakan, where an editor is persistent in adding a "controversy" section to the article. All of his provided sources are just blogs and discussion boards. Kindly help us so that the article will be neutral enough. Thanks! -Danngarcia 17:12, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This has been heavily vandalized for the past month. -- Howard  the   Duck  05:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Oplan 15,000
You are invited to join Oplan 15,000 on the Tagalog Wikipedia which aims to have 15,000 articles on or before December 25, 2007. See you there! - Auto007 14:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Prize for the 25,000+ Tagalog Wikipedia article
Whoever creates the first article to break the 24,999 mark will get a PhP 1000 Sodexho gift certificate from me. It doesn't necessary be the 25,000th article. The criterias are:
 * 1) Written in standard Tagalog language
 * 2) Not a stub
 * 3) Readable and easy to comprehend
 * 4) No mixture of spam o vandalism
 * 5) Created by a registered wikipedia user, with an email address registered to the account, preferably in the Philippines at the time the article is created.
 * 6) Acceptable to the Tagalog Wikipedia and PhilWiki community.

Administrators of english and Philippine language wikipedia are not qualified to participate. The winner will be notified by email with a confirmation code. The user will personally claim the prize at the scheduled PhilWiki meetup. --Exec8 04:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes I can join! Weeeeeeeeeeee.... -- Howard  the   Duck  09:18, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What's Sodexho? (Well, I'm a bureaucrat at tl... so it doesn't matter anyway. Hehehe.) --seav 09:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, Wikipedia has an article about Sodexho. Anyway, it works like a gift certificate that is honored in various establishments like Jollibee and SM. --Jojit (talk) 10:01, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you should read this before offering the prize. - 203.87.129.111 12:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I am serious about this to reward our dear editors and contributors in a little way. Yes, Sodexho is accepted by many establishments. I prefer to give something that can used right away. :) --Exec8 14:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a bad idea and it may fail. As I quote in WikiMoney's talk page.:

Users edit what they want to edit; not what they are told to edit so they can get someone else to edit other stuff for them in return...--h i s s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 03:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I hope you would reconsider. - 203.87.129.111 13:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * IMHO as long as this is not regular (just a one-off event) it'll be OK. -- Howard  the   Duck  14:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I saw a rising number of contributors with no username and just using IP address. They are also not qualified. --Exec8 14:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Southeast Asia
I've been aware of this regional project for quite a while now. What do you guys think of it? I don't quite see how they manage (if they even do), the very large overlap between that WikiProject and the various country subprojects. (For instance, Narra, Palawan, is tagged by their assessment department, which I find pretty weird.) We're being quite insular with our activities here in the Tambayan and I think we can better coordinate with the larger project on regional topics. Examples of wide-ranging articles that would benefit from regional cooperation are ASEAN, the various SEA Games articles, Spratly Islands, Kulintang, Wallace Line, and Durian. I guess we also need an ambassador of sorts, or at least one who keeps up with any important developments on that project. --seav 02:05, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject_Encantadia
I got to this inactive Wikiproject due to assessing Alena. I think the scope of the project, is mostly cruft aside from the main articles. If these articles are nominated in Afd, they will definitely get deleted. As an Afd watcher I have seen characters of even more notable shows get deleted. Nakakahiya naman kung iba pang tao ang mag-nominate. Anyways a massive merge/redirect/delete action is due. I don't watch GMA shows aside from documentaries and news programs so I won't be of help.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 09:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

When I was starting to do my Mythology research project, I was shocked to find that searches for Mythological figures led me to more Encantadia articles than it led me to actual Philippine Mythology facts. (Often the Encantadia articles had more detail.) I never did watch the show, so I can't help much either. But I was always hopeful that this was our country's first step towards having a show like Star Trek, with all its inherent cultural significance nullifying the fact that its articles are pretty much all crufty, too. (That's 800 plus hours of viewing, most of which is covered by individual Wikis!) Whether it has actually achieved a similar status is, of course, highly doubtful, but part of me is screaming that the series is probably more important than we now think, with history revealing its full significance. A part of me is screaming that I don't want to see those entries deleted, but, as Spock would say, there is no way to quantify "part of oneself screaming." (Hehe. Did I just earn myself a Trekkie label? Hahahaha.) Alternativity 18:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

QUESTION REGARDING WP:BIO
Hi guys, I have a little question. An article about Jonas Diego was created by User_talk:Jonasdiego himself. Most of the edits came from him himself. I know it violates WP:COI and WP:BIO since he made an article about himself even others (even I) made some few editions. Although the article may be notable, the fact that its created and mostly edited by himself makes the article questionable with regard to WP:COI. I just want to know if this article is qualified for AfD? †B lo o d p ac k† 14:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Use WP:VANITY as a reason. Also, Filipino cartoonists are generally unknown. -- Howard  the   Duck  14:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply! So it's qualified for AfD? †B lo o d p ac k†  15:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * FWIW, I personally know Jonas Diego but I would only say that he's borderline notable in the local webcomic scene. I would even assert that he's the most well-known webcomic creator in the Philippines, but I have no third-party information for that. There is actually an issue right now between Wikipedian deletionists and the webcomic industry as signified by this Slashdot article. You might find the comments there interesting. --seav 02:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's goodie! Then perhaps, you can do the honor of informing him about WIKI's policies about self-made articles? †B lo o d p ac k†  04:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't personally know him, but he's relatively well known within that community. (And I'm not much of a comics person). Maybe not at the same level as, say, Gerry Alanguilan, but pretty close. It bothers me that the page is self-made, but if it's a question of notability, I certainly think Jonas Diego is notable. (Hehe. Funny, I just woke up, and for about two minutes there, I was thinking of Jonas BURGOS). I'm curious to see what user:Bluemask thinks.Alternativity 02:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it qualifies for Afd. However, if he will not touch on that article anymore and someone will improve that, much better. --βritand&βeyonce (talk•contribs) 09:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikidashboard and Wikitrust
Interesting tools. Check them out:
 * http://wikidashboard.parc.com/ - interesting to see who are dominating the edits in particular articles...
 * http://trust.cse.ucsc.edu/ - not yet available for all articles...

And the winner for most talkative in WT:TAMBAY is... Howard the Duck! --Nino Gonzales 08:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Should we give him a barnstar or something? :)-- Lenticel ( talk ) 08:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * A new computer set. haha. Just kidding. A barnstar is fine. Ooops, this is not anymore a surprise. Well... --βritand&βeyonce (talk•contribs)  09:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL! What he needs is to go out once in a while =D JK! hehehe... †B lo o d p ac k†  05:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ssshhhhh don't tell my boss I'm wasting the company's bandwidth >:D -- Howard  the   Duck  09:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Your really a duck. Goodjob!!! [[Image:Smile.png]] --βritand&βeyonce (talk•contribs)  09:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Bikol Wikipedia and the proposed version of the Ortograpiyang Filipino
Just a few announcements:


 * The Bikol Wikipedia was approved. Expect to be on http://bcl.wikipedia.org anytime soon.
 * Recognizing the value of Wikipedia in its (supposed) potential in shaping Filipino as a language, I invite everyone (especially linguists) to review a new version of the Ortograpiyang Filipino proposed by the KWF supposedly for release by end-2007. If you would like to comment, follow the instructions in the yellow box at the top of the KWF website (http://wika.pbwiki.com).

Let's do some good! -- Sky Harbor 17:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the bcl link a dead link. --Exec8 03:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It hasn't been made yet. I'd give it some time.  -- Sky Harbor  11:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Saguisag wife killed in road mishap
Former Senator Rene Saguisag was in a “critical” stage but was responding well to simple instructions, the report said. Article --Exec8 23:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * heard it this morning in the radio †B lo o d p ac k†  23:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Me too in a tv station. Ouch, I missed "the Beyonce experience".hehe.=) --βritand&βeyonce (talk•contribs) 02:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Number Coding Scheme
Heck, if there's an article on London congestion charge, I think we should have an article for the traffic program we all love to hate. :-) --seav 15:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a stupid law, according to this site.--222.126.46.2 08:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedya proposal
I invite all of you to participate in this discussion concerning the proposed renaming of the Tagalog Wikipedia from "Wikipedia" to "Wikipedya" just like the french, volapuk and other European wikis did in order to agree with their own local pronounciations and spellings. Here is the discussion: tl:WP:Wikipedya. -- Felipe Aira 11:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

"Branding" Kibungan, Benguet
Hi. The Kibungan, Benguet article may require some looking into in light of recent changes in the town's "branding," as reported in the Inquirer recently. However, I honestly don't have the energy to do this myself. Hehe. Any volunteers? Alternativity 18:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Done!-- Lenticel ( talk ) 22:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Manila 4: Let's get together
I propose Manila 4 to be in December. This fourth informal meet will have a get together or EB theme, some sort of a party-like theme. Since the past three meetings became more of a talking shop atmosphere. Before our 4th meeting, we have to iron out some things online.
 * Invitation (via email, mail or phone) of resource persons to verify authenticity of Philippine-related articles, correct format and structure of articles in local languages, suggestion to create an account and contribute;
 * Integrated Bar
 * Commission on the Filipino Language
 * Commission on Information and Communication Technology
 * Intellectual Property Office
 * National Library and the National Achieves
 * Department of Education
 * Philanthropists and Non-profit organizations/ foundations
 * Privately-owned corporations
 * Completion and ratification of the By-laws should be done by November 19;
 * Completion of requirements for informal organization by November 29;
 * Presentation of ideas to the online community from November 16-26
 * Logistical requirements of the informal organization
 * Invitation of resource persons
 * Manila 4 setup
 * Plan for Manila 4 from November 22-December 1.
 * Final date, time and venue of the meetup on December 1.

Finally, I propose the creation of the fully organized Wikipedia Philippines foundation by April 2008. --Exec8 05:34, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to commence the review of the WMPH bylaws (since hopefully we get them done by this meetup). They're available here.  -- Sky Harbor  02:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Lets put the by-laws into vote. --Exec8 03:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry. But I think we need to discuss the Articles of Incorporation again, in light of the 1,000,000-peso working capital statement. Haven't we agreed that we won't need the million pesos at first? --seav 03:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone check with the SEC for clarification. -- Sky Harbor  11:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

WMPH bylaws
I finally got to read it. Here's my take. I suggest we agree on a mission-vision statement first. The by-laws should flow from this mission-vision statement. Sorry to be the annoying devil's advocate again, but based on the way I see our situation, my understanding of our mission-vision and my gut feel on our progress in the next few years, the by-laws seem to be overkill. I highly doubt we can implement the bureaucracy proposed by the by-laws... do we even have the people to do accounting (treasurer), make meeting minutes (secretary), creating resolutions and approving them (the board)... and a more fundamental question is do we need this bureaucracy to reach our goals? Perhaps this is just a formality for the SEC approval. If that is so, you get my vote for the version of the document as of my signing of this comment (but if it could be simplified, that would be more preferable). I also think that we should make most decisions in the wiki and just use meetings for activities which really need it. --Nino Gonzales 03:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Assessment department worklist
I made a script to collect a whole bunch of potentially unassessed Philippine-related articles. I did this by checking out which articles categorized under categories within 10 levels of Category:Philippines (ignoring the obviously non-Philippine-related categories like Category:World War II) are still unassessed. I got a total of about 6,800 still unassessed articles. Interestingly, I found out that there are about 9,100 possibly Philippine-related articles currently existing. (My estimate was about 5,000. Hehehe.) The worklist is transcluded below. Hopefully we can finish this worklist by November end. Enjoy tagging and assessing! --seav 06:12, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Assessment conflict
I don't think Zebra Dove be tagged/assessed because the bird almost belong to six countries. --βritand&βeyonce (talk•contribs) 07:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's ok if you don't tag it. Not all articles in the worklists are supposed to be tagged. --seav 05:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Tagging statistics
Here's a graph of the history of the Assessment tagging as on November 9. There is currently a backlog of about 6,500 possibly Philippine-related articles. I know it's kinda tedious, but please do your share. There's an excellent user script that you can use to make tagging much, much easier; please see the first section in the assessment talk page Thanks! --seav 05:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Sep-08: 440 Sep-13: 573 Sep-15: 650 Sep-18: 650 Sep-21: 891 Sep-24: 933 Sep-27: 959 Sep-30: 988 Oct-03: 1071 Oct-06: 1274 Oct-11: 1512 Oct-14: 1712 Oct-22: 2027 Oct-24: 2133 Oct-28: 2246 Oct-31: 2400 Nov-02: 2688 Nov-07: 2703 Nov-09: 2708

This graph is officially located on the assessment department page.

Merge needed: Juan De la Cruz Band and Juan Dela Cruz Band
Additionally, I think that they are the rock music icon in the Philippines. So I guess, the article should be of High-importance? --seav 05:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Some quick correction...
The word tambayan does not mean a place for hanging out, instead it should mean a place for idling. Tambay means to idle. J2 - a messy profile ilyk2learn 13:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the word is ambiguous and could be referred to as hanging out. If it's not, why it stayed in the page for a long time? Why did Filipino Wikipedians didn't make actions on that? --&#946;ritand&&#946;eyonce (talk•contribs) 00:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No biggie, regardless †B lo o d p ac k†  01:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Bomb rips southern entrance of the Batasang Pambansa

 * Main article: 2007 Batasang Pambansa bombing

Basilan representative Wahab Akbar died as well as two others and several are injured, including two other congressmen. --seav 17:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Cleaning up the Television Show Pages
Although I am not actually a Pinoy, I noticed that many of the pages for Pinoy TV shows are in a need for a major maglinis. We need references, more sensible writing, removing the stuff that we don't need, adding stuff that we "do" need, and related stuff. For this reason, I'm joining the force, and I'll see if I can get the League of Extraordinary Copyeditors on this case as well.

p.s. I think Wowowee would be a perfect show for a North American broadcaster to have from what I've read. Just amp up the prizes a bit (maybe make the final half have a million dollar grand prize) and it could be perfect for Fox maybe? ViperSnake151 16:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That's okay. I've been monitoring some articles about TV shows myself as my schedule permits. I've even had some anons complaining that I was "ruining" "their" hard work, even after explaining why I made such changes. There are a lot of new shows as well, so maybe I could also take a look at them one of these days. --- Tito Pao 01:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem with some articles about Pinoy TV shows is that it reeks of fanboyism, forgetting that Wikipedia is NOT a way to PROMOTE their beloved shows. Starczamora 08:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Wowowee Progress
Just so you can see what I've done so far on my "project", here's the result of my *ahem* adjustments so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wowowee&diff=171048402&oldid=169305996

So, like what I did? ViperSnake151 22:18, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Just saw your copy/edits and I would like to thank you for taking the time. Now, there are things I'd like to address. First is the use of past tense. MoS indicates the use of present tense in articles (i.e. "The show is aired live weekdays...") Should we use, "The show airs on weekdays" instead? Second, I dont think its necessary to enumerate and/or elaborate the show's games. Notable things like the show's controversy, stampede, those are good. I also noticed you used "The show is filmed at Studio 3 of the ABS-CBN Broadcast Center in Quezon City, Philippines."(?). I think it should be "currently being broadcast". It is a game show right?, not a movie. Those are just a few, Ill take a look again...  †B lo o d p ac k†  22:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I did do some of the adjustments you mentioned to the opening, and I also made the descriptions a bit less elaborate than how they were before, while still mentioning the fact that there "are" musical performances, and I do have a verifiable source showing that they have been known to roll around the ball on Pasalog instead of passing it around the audience at times (a video on YouTube showing such a event I believe).


 * I am going to be looking at the format sections on other major game show articles and continuing to tweak the ones on Wowowee until I feel that they are good. For a game show, and I mean a LIVE daily game show, this show is quite elaborate on its own compared to let's just say the US version of Deal or No Deal for instance (which is only 1-hour long in most cases, and is pre-taped). Still, you may just get where I'm going here. ViperSnake151 14:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * As someone who has been doing some work on the wowowee page (mainly vandal protection and some addition of cites plus a little cleanup) i love what you've done with it and thank you. I've been wanting to do more work on the page but I'm pretty limited by my lack of knowledge of Tagalog and until recently unsteady access to the show itself. Thank you again.harlock_jds 12:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

And cause I have tweaked it so much (still don't know if the offer to switch boxes on Merrygalo is actually offered only on the last one or on the 2nd and 3rd, or just the 2nd), but because it's been such a good transformation for the article ever since I came along, I have nominated it to be reviewed to be possibly considered for Good Article status. ViperSnake151 22:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Request for peer review of Philippine Idol
I am determined of putting a Philippine TV show as a Featured article like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I am currently editing Philippine Idol and I would like to request for a peer review. Thanks! Starczamora 11:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Try Peer review, the "official" place to request formal reviews. --seav 11:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I am trying to get a specific Philippine TV show article up to good article status, I personally think from what I've heard, it's a pretty interesting game show format that needs to have some recognition from the community, who knows: there may be American producers reading Wikipedia looking for the next best format to import to America, this may be it. Just amp up the prizes alot (like maybe a $1,000,000 top prize) and reformat it to fit in an hour, cut some of the unneeded stuff, and you got an excellent gameshow! If we do get it, Featured will be our next step. ViperSnake151 12:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Does this include humiliating and killing the contestants? Hahaha -- Howard  the   Duck  12:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If we can find an RS to that, maybe we can put that aspect of Wowowee as well. Starczamora 14:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure, if they kill contestants, wouldn't they get suspended by that stupid media board that thinks all sports REQUIRE a PG rating? Well, yeah, basketball is a pretty mature sport, viewer discretion should be advised. Maybe they should add sports to the "unrated" category? XD ViperSnake151 14:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Apparently, Willie greets the chairperson of that stupid media board everyday that's why he's scot-free :D -- Howard  the   Duck  14:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * lawl, think we're gonna make it to good maybe on both articles? ViperSnake151 16:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Some sections needs refs though... also, I'm surprised that the whole article was trimmed down, were the fanboys angry? -- Howard  the   Duck  16:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

sitsiritsit vs. the musical fruit
Does anyone have any information about the origin of the American children's song Beans, Beans, the Musical Fruit? It's melody is the same as the Filipino folk song "Sitsiritsit alibangbang". I am doubtful that the Beans version is the original. Any information you can find might be useful to flesh out the article. Thanks. --Polaron | Talk 23:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sitsiritsit Alibangbang was being sung in Manila even during the Spanish colonization, and was first rearranged by Narding Cruz for the Malabon Brass Band in 1979 as stated in the following:
 * http://www.ncca.gov.ph/about_cultarts/articles.php?artcl_Id=101
 * http://www.philmusicregistry.net/song_profile.php?song_id=10792 Starczamora (talk) 00:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Sheesh. For a while there I thought someone had come up with a Batibot parody. Hahaha. Alternativity (talk) 14:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Taglish and Englog
I think you should divert some of the energy off your lively debate on languages on these articles.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 03:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Kinds of Code-Switching

 * Intersentential switching, switching outside the sentence or clause level, for example at sentence or clause boundaries
 * May sasabihin ako sayo. You remind me of my ex-girlfriend. Mabait din sya tulad mo. She loves chocolates.
 * May pusa on the table.


 * Intra-sentential switching, switching within a sentence or clause
 * Maghahanap kaagad ako ng trabaho after our graduation.
 * Matalino sana but she's so boring.
 * He is cute katulad ng kapatid nya.
 * You are so makulit [(kasi)/kaya].
 * Sumakay na kami ng tricycle sa kanto when it started raining.


 * Tag-switching, switching a tag phrase or word from language B into language A (this is a common intra-sentential switch - see example no. 5)
 * Parang shell ang teeth.
 * Kunin mo ang battery sa cabinet.


 * Intra-word switching, switching within a word itself, such as at morpheme boundary
 * K(c)inoach (-in- + coach) ni Norman Black ang Team Pilipinas.
 * S(c)inentralize (-in- + centralize) ang gobyerno.
 * Hindi jinajudge (-in- + (ju)2dge) sa panlabas na kaanyuan ang isang tao.


 * Combanation of Tag-switching and Intra-word switching
 * Minemelt (-in- + (me)2lt) nito ang phlegm papalabas.
 * Napaint mo na ba yung gitna ng door?
 * Xinerox (-in- + Xerox) ang documents.

Tag-switching and Intra-word switching are features of Filipino.-- Filipinayzd  hehe (talk) 05:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This is not useful here. Add those at the appropriate languages. -- Howard  the   Duck  06:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Convert the Philippine LGUs WikiProject into a Tambayan Philippines/WikiProject Philippines Department
I created this WikiProject back in 2003 and I think that it would function better as a Geography department alongside the Assessment and Collaboration departments. The drive to improve the geography-related Philippine articles is part of the "WikiProject Philippines" scope and all the proposed department needs to do is to promulgate Manual of Style guidelines. All of the other normal functions expected of a WikiProject (assessment, collaboration, outreach, etc.) can be taken up by the Tambayan itself. What do you guys think? --seav (talk) 05:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Since that project has been inactive, better to do something to restore its "dying" life. :) --&#946;ritand&#946;eyonce (talk•contribs) 05:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Philippine peso/piso debate again
Please check out Philippine peso and User talk:Dove1950. See also WikiProject Numismatics/Style where it says "Use the local name for the denomination even if there is an English translation (e.g., Czech koruna, not Czech crown)." I am getting tired of this debate. --seav (talk) 22:54, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Marikina City Government
I don't know if this template is necessary. --Scorpion prinz (Talk 12:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * TFD it. -- Howard  the   Duck  12:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

A Wiki WYSIWYG editor
Does anyone know of any wysiwyg browser plugin (for firefox perhaps) editor or software I can use to edit pages and create tables and stuff? This page is driving me nuts. I'm not really into hard coded editing and my knowledge of html is only a little above basic. --Weekeejames (talk) 16:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

My next major overhaul
Pilipinas, Game KNB?

that is all. got any more messy articles that have enough "actual info" but is malformed beyond belief? ViperSnake151 16:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The awards received should really have citations. Intro has "Piony" spelled wrong for Pinoy. "See also" links for edu and kris should be removed as both have already been mentioned/linked in the initial paragraph. Some re-wordings and tweaks would do good †B lo o d p ac k†  09:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Heads up guys, you may want to look at these:
 * The Sharon Cuneta Show
 * Sa Linggo nAPO Sila
 * 'Sang Linggo nAPO Sila
 * GMA Supershow
 * Mara Clara
 * Boy & Kris
 * Ang Munting Paraiso
 * Super Laff-In
 * Palibhasa Lalake
 * a lot more actually; big list here:
 * List of shows previously aired by ABS-CBN
 * List of shows previously aired by GMA Network
 * Apparently User:Pepeton likes to start articles on local TV shows but writes them with an un-encyclopedic tone and very little real-world info.— Sandtiger  02:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There are several more of people like Pepeton, they write in an overly fanboyish way and don't like their "work" to be changed. I'd recommend blocking these people after the four warnings are used up. -- Howard  the   Duck  06:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I finally noticed my new barnstar! Thanks ViperSnake151 22:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * errr...I also noticed you awarded yourself with a Technology Barnstar. Lol =) †B lo o d p ac k†  06:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I didn't, don't know why it got messed up like that when I moved it around to a different place. ViperSnake151 14:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

To tambayan philippines
Hey everyone... I propose we do a certain "Trip" in different schools in the Met to inform them more about wikipedia to help them become more conscientious users of this tool. Many students think that this encyclopedia is written by nerds and other people with excruciatingly long appendages to their name... By the way, i am back... i have afew pics to upload, hopefully research about my place in mindoro... but school hinders me... to each according to his ability... I suggest SM Manila... if that is convenient... Justox dizaola (talk) 11:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Are we already drafting the constitution? I express interest in joining, under the chaperoneship of my mom... She's kinda suspicious... She doesn't know about wikipedia... It would be good to inform her that this is not a fraternity (negative connotation) like thing Justox dizaola (talk) 03:03, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats really good! Everything is being discussed (although Im not present) in our previous meet-ups , and perhaps you can share your thoughts with the fourth meetup!  †B lo o d p ac k†  06:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration department update: 1986 EDSA Revolution is selected for Collaboration #1
After gaining 5 votes, 1986 EDSA Revolution became the community's selected article for collaboration. The goal is to make this article featured. Thanks to those who voted (even if abstain): Alternativity, seav, TheCoffee, Magalhães, Lenticel, Bloodpack, eternal dragon, BritandBeyonce, Kurt Guirnela, Howard the Duck, Nino Gonzales, Jojit fb, and Sky Harbor. Please help in the collaboration. Lenticel, the selected article's nominator, is now this article's collaboration coordinator. --seav 07:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to coordinate any raw referenced info that you could contribute since I can't go to the library and provide info myself. I might not be able to improve the article quickly since I have an upcoming entrance exam on the third week of Nov.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 08:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There's no deadline for this. :-) We just have to keep on improving it until it becomed featured. :-) --seav 08:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, nabunutan ako ng tinik. I thought I'll let the Tambayan down.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 08:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Good. It would really be a pressure if there will be a deadline. By the way, what happened to the page? A new user added his/her name in the Tambayan Roster but slightly distorted the structure. --Britand&Beyonce (talk•contribs) 08:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Lenticel, unlike other article collaboration projects that are weekly or fortnightly or monthly, I specifically did not add any time element (in the guidelines) because I know that we're all quite busy. The problem is, we can't collaborate on another article until we finish this one so that there's an element of pressure. :-) --seav 08:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Seav, seav! I nominate Laguna de Bay! hahahahahaha. I don't have that many on-hand sources for EDSA, but I'll do my best to contribute, as well. (I'm limited by the fact that I can't sic my research assistant on this. hehe. Outside of her purview.)Alternativity 17:35, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Please direct any other comments/discussion to either Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Collaboration or Talk:1986 EDSA Revolution as appropriate. --seav 08:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Bay Boulevard in Pasay City will be renamed to J.W. Diokno Boulevard. Bay Boulevard is in the south end of EDSA, in front of Mall of Asia. --Exec8 23:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

1986 EDSA Revolution is now renamed to People Power Revolution
Let's get cracking at making this FA! Proceed to the talk page to see a list of issues and things to do. --seav 10:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok I'm back, let's start improving this article.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 08:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Open requests for new languages
I just noticed that the following languages have open requests:


 * Tagalog Wikinews
 * Rinconada Bikol Wikipedia
 * Bikol Wiktionary

Please take the time to express your support or opposition for these proposals. Likewise, I think we need to refile approved requests that were never made, like the Cebuano, Ilocano and Pangasinan Wiktionaries. -- Sky Harbor 00:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Good news (despite the great Tagalog/Filipino debate)
Let us welcome the arrival of the Bikol Wikipedia. Note to ponder, though: users should NOT manually move the Incubator contents to the Bikol Wikipedia as this would cause the loss of the page history. Wait for the pages to be imported from Incubator first. -- Sky Harbor 00:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Congratulations! A link to the Bicol Wikipedia on the first page of the Chavacano Wikipedia is provided. May the Bicol Wikipedia prosper! --Weekeejames (talk) 01:56, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If only I could speak Kinaray-A or Hiligaynon. According to SPQRobin, we have to move the articles manually. --Filipinayzd (talk) 09:08, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Please note moving pages after the import from wp/bcl/pagename to pagename causes lots of work. Ooswesthoesbes 15:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * @Sky Harbor: Who imports the pages from Incubator? SPQRobin (talk) 15:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You mean exports from incubator and imports at bcl.wikipedia. --Ooswesthoesbes 16:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes (that's the same, just with other words) SPQRobin (talk) 16:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * to import from (=importeren vanaf) is impossible. So not the same. Ja ik praat nu een beetje mfwarburgerig (to behave yourself)... --Ooswesthoesbes 16:15, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Was me. --Ooswesthoesbes (talk) 16:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't expect to generate so much controversy (!) But then again, I read it in Incubator:Policy about page importation.  If by import it means copy-paste (not Special:Import as I originally thought), then it should have been clear from the beginning.  -- Sky Harbor  20:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Cut and paste? Seriously? Isn't that a violation of the GFDL? The history should be importable. -202.57.89.34 (talk) 13:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It is so. I always tell people this, but nobody cares ;-) It is also possible, see here. Someone should ask Pathoschild to do it for bcl.wikipedia. --MF-Warburg 21:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! Or may I say my greeting in Tagalog / (slash) Filipino: "Binabati ko kayo sa pagbuo ng bagong bahagi ng Wikipedia: ang Bikol Wikipedia! " Better start the page with the latest news! --Exec8 (talk) 16:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

be forewarned
Some of the Anons who use improper tone on their edits to Wowowee and reverting some of my changes are back. ViperSnake151 23:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * remember to assume good faith :D harlock_jds (talk) 02:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * see it told you the fanboys will get angry... -- Howard  the   Duck  03:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * angry fanboys on the internet??? who could have predicted that????? harlock_jds 13:39, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * sssshhh they appear in real life too... and they're not only boys... -- Howard  the   Duck  13:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

2007 Manila Peninsula Standoff
So, have we decided how to name this, yet? Does anyone mind if I start one yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alternativity (talk • contribs) 07:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Couldn't this be a subsection of the oakwood mutiny article? :D --seav (talk) 07:27, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Why do we always start events articles with a year? †B lo o d p ac k† 07:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's see how the events unfold then create a better article tomorrow (if we live through this or not denied of Internet connection in the worst case scenario or marching on some street shouting stuff). Besides this still borders Wikipedia is not news. I'm getting excited, I hope something "interesting" will happen.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 07:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ayan ka na naman with your 'excited' aspirations. Hehehe. I think this will be another protracted incident, less in scope compared to the Oakwood incident. --seav (talk) 07:51, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehe. I have to give in to my inner red-shirted guy sometimes. Anyways, do you think we should put this on the "in the news" section of the Main Page?-- Lenticel ( talk ) 08:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Red-shirted guy? Redshirt (character)? Alternativity (talk) 10:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehehe I mean the other red shirted guy-- Lenticel ( talk ) 13:45, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Guys, you were preempted by Manila Peninsula Mutiny by User:Vivafilipinas. --seav (talk) 08:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hehe. I knew I was going too slow. Hehehe. Sad. Naexcite pa naman ako maunang gumawa. hehehe. Alternativity (talk) 08:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't worry alt, that's fine. Though it's an honor to first make an article which is very much notable but just think of quality rather than quantity. --&#946;ritand&#946;eyonce (talk•contribs) 11:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a better name would the Manila Peninsula siege but I think the current title is fine. -- Howard  the   Duck  08:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I suggest that we should use the term standoff as per usage by the media. (Inquirer) (GMA) Jojit (talk) 08:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes but "standoff" is not that "encyclopediable" word. Either mutiny or siege is more proper. -- Howard  the   Duck  08:35, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * FWIW, the correct name of the hotel is "The Peninsula Manila" --seav (talk) 08:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Which is the name I'm using on my edits but it seems "Manila Peninsula" has stuck. -- Howard  the   Duck  08:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we can use "Manila Peninsula" for the event and "The Peninsula" or "The Peninsula Manila" for the hotel. "Manila Peninsula" for the hotel is colloquial. --seav (talk) 08:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "Yes but "standoff" is not that "encyclopediable" word. Either mutiny or siege is more proper." -- I was toying earlier with mutiny but I wasn't sure it qualified as such, and I was thinking of siege but I wasn't sure the incident would be limited to just being a siege. Thus I went for standoff. However, it seems mutiny had a considerable headstart on me, so I guess I defer to mutiny until the group decides on the proper nomenclature. Alternativity (talk) 10:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How can it be a mutiny if they were already dishonorably discharged? --seav (talk) 11:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There were some mutineers in active service. -- Howard  the   Duck  11:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

how about "adventurism?" †B lo o d p ac k† 11:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The word seige is different from mutiny although both has military connotation. A better alternative for the title would be uprising. Although synonymous, an uprising is limited as far as the time that occured, scope, number and involvement of members is concerned than the general term of mutiny. It's context is even more limited than revolt [as in revolution]. It would also be better to start the article as: "The Manila Peninsula Uprising is a rebellion that occurred..." than "The Manila Peninsula Mutiny is a mutiny that occurred..." I use rebellion because it's a more general term than mutiny. --Weekeejames (talk) 15:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * We are not the only ones confused. (See this) --Jojit (talk) 00:45, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * lol --Weekeejames (talk) 09:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Attempts at regime change timeline
The PCIJ (through their blog) has released a timeline. --seav 20:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)