Wikipedia talk:Template index/Wikipedia namespace

Templates for guidelines
'Italic text'===Guidelines in Category:Wikipedia guidelines=== Guideline - categorisation not included in template (in the mean while categorisation in Category:Wikipedia guidelines *is* included in the template --Francis Schonken 16:03, 16 April 2006 (UTC))

Guidelines in Category:Wikipedia style guidelines
Style-guideline - categorisation in Category:Wikipedia style guidelines included in template

Other guidelines in subcategories of Category:Wikipedia guidelines
has been made available for a number of guideline subcategories (categorisation in related "guideline subcategory" included in template):

Template content

 * PS: this part is "noinclude"

This template is a self-reference and so is part of the Wikipedia "project" namespace rather than of the encyclopaedic content.
 * See also
 * Template messages/Project namespace
 * Template:Policy
 * Template:Guideline
 * Template:Style-guideline
 * Template:Wikipedia subcat guideline
 * Template:Proposed
 * Template:Rejected
 * Template:Historical

Present use of the template (end of October 2005)

 * In Naming conventions guidelines (see also short manual for how to use the template included in Category:Wikipedia naming conventions):
 * Naming conventions (films)
 * Naming conventions (ancient Romans)
 * Naming conventions (identity)
 * Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name)
 * Naming conventions (people)
 * Naming conflict
 * In notability criteria guidelines:
 * Trivia
 * In how-to guidelines:
 * Proposed for footnotes, see Wikipedia talk:Footnotes

Template talk page content
 

Included in: Template messages/Project namespace

This template only works if the first parameter is as well the *exact* name of a wikipedia category and the *exact* name of a page in the "wikipedia:" namespace explaining that category, for example:


 * Notes
 * 1) deprecated


 * Case
 * Type the entirely lower case, choosing the exact format and spelling as in the first column of the table above (e.g. "how-to" and not "HowTo" or any other variation); Don't add "category:" nor "wikipedia " nor "wikipedia:" for the first parameter.
 * Start the first word of without space after the pipe and start it always with an upper case, regardless of whether the corresponding guideline and/or wikipedia category have that word with an upper case.

This template presently does not work for style guidelines: So, for style guidelines, use Style-guideline instead!
 * Guidelines on style
 * Category name: Wikipedia style guidelines
 * Guideline page: Manual of Style


 * See also :* Wikipedia talk:Template messages/Project namespace

Discussion

 * Imported TfD discussion (29 October 2005):

A somewhat confusing template used for putting Wikipedia pages in a subcat of Category:Wikipedia guidelines. It is, however, redundant since afaik most of those categories already have different templates that are better worded. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 00:23, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no, "most of those categories" have not different templates; the only guideline subcategory that has its own template are style guidelines. All other subcategories of the guidelines category are served only by this template, that can be used for these four subcategory types. See Template talk:Wikipedia subcat guideline and see Template_messages/Project_namespace --Francis Schonken 08:10, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep --Francis Schonken 08:10, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I would prefer simply to have deletion guideline, howto guideline and naming convention. This template encourages the creation of needless subcategories of Category:Wikipedia guidelines, which is needlessly complicating matters. The concept of "coherence guidelines" for instance has neither discussion nor consensus, and isn't really well-defined enough to warrant its own category. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 10:54, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete, agree with radiant. Wikipedia subcat guideline is bad in design for usability because it affords the creation of extra needless sub-categories (usability testing). new sub-categories should be manually created with its own template. miscellaneous policies and guidelines should fall into the main category. -- Zondor 11:39, 29 October 2005 (UTC) -- Zondor 11:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, guideline (sub-)(sub-)...subcats are created anyway. Saying that this template would promote that growth seems unjustified speculation to me. For instance,
 * Category:Wikipedia notability criteria
 * Category:Subject-specific notability criteria
 * etc...
 * were all created, as sub-(sub-)(sub-)categories of Category:Wikipedia guidelines, without a second thought about a template for the guidelines in those subcategories. I suppose I think Wikipedia subcat guideline could rather be used as a tool to check uncontrolled growth of guideline subcategories.
 * --Francis Schonken 08:19, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Other approach : I propose to continue the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Template_messages/Project_namespace --Francis Schonken 10:32, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Recently this template was proposed at TfD - personally I think TfD is a rather coarse instrument to discuss the pro's and con's of the "Wikipedia subcat guideline" template; so I propose to continue the discussions here. --Francis Schonken 10:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * As of 09:08, 23 November 2005 (UTC) the template is used in some 20 Naming conventions guidelines, and a few others. The listing of the template on TfD was moved to TfD/Not deleted/November 2005. If there are still problems with the template they can be mentioned here, but for the time being I see no reason to keep this any longer on Current surveys, more than three weeks after the last comment added to this page. --Francis Schonken 09:08, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

wording of guideline and style-guideline

 * Copied from Village pump (policy)/Archive, archive date 00:08, 9 February 2006

The wording of Template:guideline and Template:style-guideline have quite different tones to them--


 * style-guideline: This page is a style guide for Wikipedia. The consensus of many editors formed the conventions described here. Wikipedia articles should heed these rules. Feel free to update this page as needed, but please use the discussion page to propose major changes.


 * guideline: This page is considered a guideline on Wikipedia. It illustrates standards of conduct, which many editors agree with in principle. Although it may be advisable to follow it, it is not however policy. Feel free to update the page as needed, but please use the discussion page to propose any major changes.

The former is much more restrictively worded than the latter - cf 'is' and 'is considered', and 'should heed' and 'advisable to follow it'. Should there really be this much divergence of authority between the two guidelines? --moof 11:39, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * And then there's still the divergent wording of Wikipedia subcat guideline used for, for instance, naming conventions guidelines, for which I have to plead guilty.
 * I think I started to get used to these divergences in formulations, for instance the MoS guidelines being nearly as strict as policy - but that might be a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome kicking in. So please go ahead if you think you have good improvement proposals. Maybe Wikipedia talk:Template messages/Project namespace would be a good place to keep (or ultimately store) such discussions. --Francis Schonken 12:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Are these a good idea?
I move two templates here for further discussion:

The first of these I think useless: policies and guidelines change. That's life. Keep up to date, like any other wikipedian. This template is not going to improve anything, and it's really unsightly. If anything, this should be done by category, eg: Category:Wikipedia policies and guidelines (major changes), subcat of Category:Wikipedia policies and guidelines – then it becomes useful for navigation and keeping people up to date what the recent changes were.

The second is plainly too much inviting for WP:POINT: if you think a policy disputable, go to its talk page or to village pump (policy) or whatever, but don't start with defacing the policy/guideline page by yet another template. WP:POINT is clear that direct attacks on a guideline/policy itself are not the good way forward in such cases. One may assume that an accepted guideline/policy has to stay fully operational until consensus over an improved version has been reached. And there are other channels (like RfC/Policy) to invite other people to take part in the debates. --Francis Schonken 08:38, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * & add Wikipedia-specific help:


 * See Template talk:Wikipedia-specific help for why I think this a very questionable template. --Francis Schonken 12:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Reinserted, the page lists templates used on or designed for Wikipedia project pages, if you don't like them just don't use them, or improve them, or start a Tfd. But don't remove them from the simple list reflecting Category:Wikipedia header templates as far as that makes sense. Omniplex 13:43, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * A category for Policy-change-warning sounds like a good idea, just add it in its  part. Folks who don't like the template can then add   (name TBD) directly. Folks who want it more visible can use the template. Others like you who think it's too visible can remove the template and add the category. It's easy to forget to remove it later, when recent is irrelevant because it was more than a year ago. Omniplex 13:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've subst'ed your examples, otherwise this talk page pops up in the corresponding categories. Omniplex 17:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Header level
What's the idea of header level 3 (===) on ? Omniplex 17:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

FYI
this page is in Category:Administrative backlog Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 07:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have removed the adminbacklog until such time as you can place it on the page without it being in CAT:AB Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 16:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)