Wikipedia talk:The Heymann Standard

Untitled
I have just seen this. The degree of an expansion of the article was a particularly high one. It represents a true expansion, not a mere improvement, and, and many articles have been kept after substantial, but much small improvements. I do not think the term should be "standard" and I propose to replace it with "level" and adjust the text to incorporate what I am saying here. I'm going to look for an example ofthe modest improvements which are typically needed to provide the necessary N V and RSs.
 * It's an essay, I drafted it with the Heymann article in mind, and anyone who chooses to refer to this is probably looking for a real sign of improvement and expansion.. !Voters at afd are free to make up their own minds so I don't think rewording is really necessary, it would change the spirit of the piece and in terms of articles being deleted or expanded would be unlikely to have much impact. Your attention might be better focussed at WP:N or WP:BIO.  Dei zio  talk 09:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * As someone who frequently tries to do improvements on articles up for deletion --though to a somewhat less impressive degree-- I reworded slightly, but I think in the spirit DGG (talk) 20:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Relevance and coherence
I don't want to sound too harsh, but this doesn't really make sense. "Heymann Standard" suggests a unit, an amount. And indeed it's described in such terms. But it's not used that way, at least in the example and the usage I've seen. If you're just saying, "This needs a Heymann Standard," that's practically a non sequitur. It would make more sense to say "such and such needs to happen, that's my Heymann Standard here." The bullet points at the end are practically peacock terms praising editors who quote this essay. It reads like someone was trying to hard to make a "thing." Last year, the essay was cited a total of four times in deletion debates. Not that that's a reason to delete or anything. My essay only had three. But I strongly suspect the fact that this essay doesn't make much sense and the fact that it's infrequently quoted are related. I'd like to see it improved. Hey, I just desire to see quality content on Wikipedia. (I'm also baffled by the redirect KERRRZAPPP, which may be worth a trip to RFD.) --BDD (talk) 16:30, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thinking about it some more, is a Heymann Standard the amount that the Heymann article itself was improved? --BDD (talk) 06:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. It may well sound cool to randomly say "Heymann Standard" in AfDs without really knowing what it means, but the essay here is pretty poor and confused.--Anders Feder (talk) 15:01, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

This essay fails to describe the most common use of WP:HEY
I think this article fails to define the most common use of the link WP:HEY. I often see it invoked at AfD, usually in the form of a !vote "Keep per WP:HEY." In that context it is used to mean "keep because the article has been significantly improved since it was nominated".  In other words the editor is invoking a Heymann Precedent - of an article which is kept because it was significantly improved - rather than a Heymann Standard that they would like to see the article brought up to. I have frankly never seen anyone say "I would !vote to keep if somebody improved it per WP:HEY." (However, with some searching just now I find that it WAS commonly used that way in 2006-7.   ) Anyone who clicks on a "Keep per WP:HEY" !vote to see what it means ought to be able to find that explanation here, but right now they won't. This essay describes the Heymann Standard being used as a hypothetical - "I would !vote keep if the article were improved per the Heymann Standard" - along with some justified hand-wringing about people who ask for improvements rather than actually improving the article themselves. At least that's my understanding of what the essay says; I am open to correction. But I think this essay is now much more commonly invoked to mean "since the article HAS BEEN improved to meet the Heymann Standard, it should be kept."

Let's work out a wording to add something explaining this use. How about adding a sentence to the lead saying something like this: The Heymann Standard may be also invoked to point out that an article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion, as the original David Heymann article was; in such cases an editor may say "Keep per WP:HEY." --MelanieN (talk) 16:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Adding that now. Should have been done eons ago, since this is the most common use of WP:HEY.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:08, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Flaws
One of the fundamental flaws in this essay is that the second sentence reads: "If a !voting editor deems a nominated page to be non-notable". This passage basically undermines the whole essay - a page can't be "non-notable". Only subjects which pages are about, can be notable or non-notable.--Anders Feder (talk) 15:07, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Deletion to Quality Award
I've created the WP:Deletion to Quality Award.

This recognizes editors who've taken a page previously considered for deletion &mdash; to Featured Article or Good Article quality.

The award is inspired by the Million Award, the Article Rescue Squadron, and the WikiProject Quality Article Improvement.

Please see Deletion to Quality Award.

Thank you,

&mdash; Cirt (talk) 00:43, 21 October 2015 (UTC)