Wikipedia talk:Today's featured list proposal/Proposal 4

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the proposal

 * 1) Support as nominator. The Placebo Effect 16:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Weak support – I do want to see featured lists on the main page, but I think that they would be better beside the featured picture and not below it.  And while Scorpion0422 is a good and fair editor, shouldn't an administrator run this, as he or she would need the privilege to edit protected pages?  –thedemonhog talk • edits 17:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It would only need an admin to protect the pages while waiting. And if worse comes to worse, we can nominate him for adminship. The Placebo Effect 17:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And i feel th other way is better cause it can show part of the list on the main page. The Placebo Effect 18:01, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to step in here and object. I don't really want to be an administrator. Circeus is the admin who is the most active at WP:FLC, why not him? -- Scorpion0422 18:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The person who promotes the lists does not have to be the person who selects them for the Main Page. This is how POTD works: I do the promotions, Howcheng does the selections. MER-C 02:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * (to TheDemonHog) Featured pictures can take up the whole screen, especially when it comes to promoting panoramas. MER-C 02:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Support Too bad this is not a proposal for FLs to actually appear on the main page. :) Awadewit |  talk  20:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Support as it looks; however, lists have a tendency to be lengthy and, as with contents boxes and discussions, there should be an expand/compress option, simply because of this: if they are on the Main Page, they are highly visible and also the first port of call for many new readers; a huge list can be overwhelming- apart from that, a fully expanded list suggests to me that whatever is below if, such as Other areas of Wikipedia and Wikipedia's sister projects run the risk of appearing swamped, and that would not be helpful. Perhaps one way of avoiding this problem would be to make the header text (or lead-in) visible all the time, and the remainder (or body) collapsible. As to the mechanics of choosing a list, I have no opinion either way. I don't see any reason either why it has to be an Admin; a nominated user could take proposals, make a choice, then inform whichever Admin approves stuff for Main Page of the chosen list. Even if this is thought to devolve too much responsibility to one person, a small group could work together to put together a list of FLs for the forthcoming week. This would also reduce content bias. -- Rodhullandemu  (talk - contribs) 02:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You don't have to be an admin to close feature discussions, but I believe you have to be to select stuff for the main page - both Raul and Howcheng are admins. MER-C 02:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) This is more like it. Why reinvent the wheel? My only concern is what goes beside TFL on the Main Page - so far, it looks like a blank. Time to spam WP:FSC a bit?
 * And get rid of Kevin Rudd's photo. :) MER-C 02:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Support the idea of a "List of the Day" project lead by someone (can do no harm, particularly if people are interested), object to it appearing on the main page, especially as per the current long mockup. -Halo 03:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) I ditto Halo, at the moment – and if this proposal does go ahead regardless of my comments, we should not have a "list of the month" item, as proposed in Sample2.  Spebi  04:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, my idea was to use this design. The Placebo Effect 04:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Weak Support As with what I said on the proposal to add featured lists to the main page, in theory I support it, but I'd be much more interested in getting PotD replaced with a Featured Content Of The Day. --Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 18:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Okay, maybe okay idea. Pluses outweigh the minuses--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 21:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Support Dincher 23:05, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Support Marcus Bowen 11:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Support I've supported this idea from the start. Hope that these votes/surveys are over soon.  Lara  ❤  Love  14:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Support. This proposal looks good to me. OhanaUnitedTalk page 15:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Support. Easy does it. Let's get it up and running before we start bickering over the ins and outs.  Chwe ch  17:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) I'm strongly opposed to the entire list appearing on the main page (or indeed anywhere), as many are very long, and I'm not sure that extracting the first few items is going to work for the majority of lists; however, tentative support for a trial run -- let's see how it works in practice for a few months. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:43, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) Weak support. I can't see any harm in it, and lets readers know that there is more to Wikipedia. Still there could be some display issues such as the layout of the page, and the amount of space it might take up - some featured lists may not work too well in this way.-h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 06:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) Support but I would not want to see it on the Main Page. violet/riga (t) 21:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) Support I think a good, simple system is the best way forward. Lets see how it works. Woodym555 (talk) 22:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the proposal

 * 1)  Comment Oppose - As I said on the project page I am still interested in getting a list of the day feature going. I have done lots of research on the featured lists and will be going ahead with an experiment on my user page.  It could be folded in with efforts at issue here or I could just do it on my own.  Suggestions/nominees will be welcome starting Nov 15.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 17:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Who cares whose proposal gets used? Why don't you and Placebo Effect work together? -- Scorpion0422 17:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I care not whose proposal gets used, but how the chosen proposal benefits the project. Now that my project is fully up and running, I though you might want to consider the four main benefits of my method over the one nomintate here:
 * 1. There is a set of orphaned articles for persons who do not have any featured lists of their own or persons that would like to take responsibility for more. Anyone can nominate such orphans.  This benefits WP by getting people involved in list articles that might not have active editors to update them or defend them against vandalism.  Please consider adopting one of our orphans.
 * 2. Each list will be encouraged to respond to commentary and feedback during the candidacy period, which will hopefully improve the quality of the articles.
 * 3. Articles without pictures will be encouraged to find them. E.g., List of Harry Potter films cast members had no image before its nominator added an image for this experiment.  This type of thing, of course, improves the project.
 * 4. Articles are encouraged to add relevant projects to their talk page. This alerts other project to articles that they would likely have an interest in and would be able to either improve or protect.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 17:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Neutral  (pending response) Tentative support: Featured articles have introductory sections, pictures are single objects that can be scaled. How will lists be able to be scaled to fit the main-page? How would The periodic table be displayed for example? If it is by using an introductory paragraph, then how would this differ from the way the FA of the day looks - or is that the intention? Witty Lama 10:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * See Today's featured list/Main Page mockup or even Featured content for a mockup. -- Howard  the   Duck  10:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I would think that this idea would only work with one-dimensional, or linear, lists. The article you cite doesn't even fit into one browser page because of its width but I'm sure those proposing lists for featuring on the front page would use some common sense. IMO, the example in the mock-up is a model of how it should look. -- Rodhullandemu  (talk - contribs) 12:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also heard the idea to make the blurb visable, and you clickk on a link to open the list., I'm not that good at coding so i didn't do that. -- The Placebo Effect 14:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that sounds quite sensible. Can that be done on the main page? I see no reason why not... As for the link to the mockup mainpage: yes I have seen that. The problem is that the vast majority of lists cannot be sensibly shown on the Mainpage due to length, but, only showing the first couple of lines in the list detracts from the list greatly as it makes it "neither here nor there". Witty Lama 15:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The version I saw was a list of Fender Guitar players, which showed the intro to the list and a few of the entries, with an "Expand" link. I would imagine that if readers were sufficiently interested after seeing the "taster", they'd click through to see the full list. The other example, for "Locks on the Kennet & Avon Canal" also shows a good intro, IMO. -- Rodhullandemu  (talk - contribs) 15:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems reasonable. Witty Lama 03:22, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Strong Oppose. I just took a look at the mockup, and it looks horrible. The FL module takes as much space as FA and FP combined, seeing that it includes a lead, an image and a huge table. The Main Page is becoming so long that it is no longer informative or really useful to direct new visitors to the site. In addition, for such an important proposal, there should be at least a full page of discussion before a survey could take place. Unless a good and long discussion could take place about how to best implement this feature, I can't support this proposal CG (talk) 12:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) There should be a way to summarize the first part of the table, like omitting images and the unneeded columns. For example, List of Canadian provinces and territories by population would show only the first 4 columns:
 * 3) Far too ugly – Gurch 13:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Latecomer questions
Sorry for questioning - I haven't been following all the previous proposals, so I don't know where everything stands :) Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  04:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This proposal says TFL will be run like FAOTD - I assume that's WP:TFA, right?
 * Nowhere does it actually say how lists will be chosen as today's featured list.
 * Yes
 * My vision is that their will be a Today's Featured List director. This Director will choose articles in an order that makes the topics random and not similar lists close to each other. It would also be nice to have a requests for List of the Day in the new manner that FA uses now. I hope i answered your question suffeciantly. The Placebo Effect 04:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

LOTD experiment before posting on Main Page

 * I propose that we run a trial List of the Day that is not committed to the main page and thus can begin with a modest majority and vote on whether the results of the experiment should go to the Main Page afterwards.

How long would this experiment be? iirc, it took about more than a year after it started before POTD's started appearing on the main page. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * A year would be nice, but I'm not going to be marking my calendar any time soon. I just want to get a system down for having LOTD selected and a format aggreed upon before talk of it going to the main page happens. --The Placebo Effect (talk) 07:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)