Wikipedia talk:Trading card game/Action plan/Phase 2:Cards/Individual card proposals

cut-pasted from the rollbacker proposal (we got way off-topic and formed a new discussion)

 * At this point, I think I'll begin focusing more on designing cards and commenting on proposals and let y'all throw out new proposals and quotes. If y'all'd like to help find images (colorful photos or paintings work best), go for it. Images should be located somewhere in the Commons. We also need a list of a good 20 or so articles that could be featured in the starter decks, preferably articles that are protected (though the actual protection state doesn't have to be reflected in the card version). I also named the trolls for you, Hi.... Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 08:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * That seems reasonable. Thank you for naming the trolls. :) With regards to article cards, I'm going to worry about those later, although I do think that there should be moe than 20, maybe about 50. However, do you think that doing something fun like letting each major contributor to this (meaning you, me, and Canvas, at the moment) just pick one article that gets put into a card?  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 18:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Just one?!?! Heh, at this rate, the three of us may be picking most of them! Of course that seems fair. :) Actually, I just remembered while cleaning up my flash drive directory structure last night that several months ago I made a list of cards that might make good articles. I don't remember what procedure I used, but I think I was going for featured articles at the time (which actually makes more sense than using protected ones, that way we can reflect actual protection). I'll post the list here shortly; not all of them have to be included, and the list is certainly not exhaustive-- we can always use more. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * What I meant was just having one that would be accepted without question (unless it is inappropriate for some reason...). For instance, I would pick Robert Abbott (game designer), but that probably wouldn't be chosen otherwise. Also, maybe on our special cards (or whatever you want to call them), it could say something like "Thanks to [Insert name here] for their help with this game."  Obviously, it would be better worded than that, but you get the idea. Anyhoo, fire away with whatever lists you can come up with.   Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:51, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see. Yup, see my change I made earlier today in the section with links to create a new proposal-- there's a special bit of instructions now for good articles, and your requested bonus Actually, I'll go ahead and set up an area for those special requests while I'm thinking about it. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 06:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, I'M a major contributer?  Canvas  Hat  01:30, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


 * And would we put something like "thanks for help from xx" on them? Also, I think that we should specify exactly what would be put as the text on article cards, whether we use a quote, etc. Hi878 isn't home.   (Can I take a message?) 01:43, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Canvas-- if you're not a major contributor, I'd like an explanation as to why your edits make up such a large percentage of this page, rofl.
 * I think it would make sense to use a message like that in place of the special text ability for the card. I don't think it should be a problem if the tribute cards have no special abilities. As for categories, my original idea is that we'd maintain a list of the article cards and which special-text-imposed categories they belong to, i.e. "articles related to cheese", "articles with subjects not native to Earth". A game I own called Redemption manages this quite well via a website with a printable comprehensive list of all such terms and exactly which cards fit the categories. However, Canvas's recent proposal of Call of Duty is making me think we may need a simple, quick category located directly on the card-- how does one not familiar with the game know it's a video game? Perhaps the "quote" area can be used to give a short definition of the term on article cards. We're not exactly full of extra space on the cards, so adding another text element would be problematic. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 03:10, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I think we should move this down...-- Canvas  Hat  16:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Bob, I think that you sould just throw a card design together for one of the tribute cards, using whatever you think would work, and then we can comment on it. As a side note, I've been e-mailing Mr. Abbott for a while now; I'm sure he would be delighted to have his own card, using that picture. By the way, before you ask silly questions such as "Also, is this guy alive?", take a look at the infobox in the article that I so kindly provided a link to. :P Would there be problems with using the picture of him in the infobox for the card? Hi878 isn't home.  (Can I take a message?) 16:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * How can we contact Treyarch?-- Canvas  Hat  19:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Sample? Can do...as for the image, it looks like that's one that will require his permission for reuse, judging by the OTRS license on it. Considering you seem to know the man, that should be pretty easy to obtain and should be a minor obstacle that'll work. And my apologies for not clicking the link to view the article-- I had intended to but was pretty busy when I responded. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 21:54, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I've uploaded a sample here using the article I'm proposing as my tribute. I would have used the Abbott one for the sample had I noticed before just now that it was licensed for redistribution. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 23:00, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Canvas-- Treyarch appears to be a trademark of Activision. I've sent Activision's corporate communcations address an email requesting permission to use a logo or screenshot of the game. I'll keep you posted as I hear more. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 03:41, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry; is there a problem with using his image, or not? I'm not entirely awake at the moment. By the way, I would suggest changing the text to something about having invented logic mazes, not just being a master. Otherwise, I like both article cards. I do have one question, though: What will go in the space that has a "thank you" for the non-tribute articles? As a (somewhat important) side-note, as soon as I finish messing around tonigh, I am going to go on a week-long (enforced) wikibreak. I will probably pop in to the Wikia occasionally and comment there, but you won't see me here for a while.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 05:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh, wake up. The image should be good to go As far as the non-tribute articles, that's where special text would go. Cards with no special text just have a larger image to fill the dead space. I'm on my way to bed shortly, but I'll make a note to myself to revise the Abbott card. Enjoy your break! Taking a WikiBreak is really tempting considering how much coursework I've got right now...but I can't take a break with a clean conscience until the automatic taxobox gets fixed... Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 06:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I've been getting no sleep lately, and I have tons of stuff to do, so I figured I should cut something out. :) As long as the Abbott card is fixed by the time I get back, I'm happy. I just sent him an e-mail letting him know about the card; If he objects, I shall let you know, probably on Wikia. Anyhoo, farewell.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 06:28, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Bob, you approved the card but you haven't fixed it yet. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 02:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * But I'm not back from my WB yet! Lol, thanks for the reminder....feel free to move it back. I'm in a hurry right now to catch up and head out the door right now. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 03:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 05:20, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Tack.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:30, 1 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, it's December finally! In two hours I can listen to my Pandora radio again! Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 04:44, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

A list of some possible bad article candidates

 * Class: Article (bad)
 * Protected: NO
 * Proposed by: 26 November 2010

Current candidates for speedy deletion

 * Physco Kitty
 * Forbidden Society

Random, vandal-ish sounding strings of words

 * Im eidting for the ferst time!!!!!!!!!!!
 * PURPLE HIPPOS
 * : ) LOL
 * Macdonalds and why you should eat ther.
 * 1000th visitor! Click here...

Comments

I am of the opinion that we should use actual vandalism pages that have been deleted, instead of making some up. For more ideas, we could use the pages at WP:DAFT. Perhaps we could link bad articles cards using the titles there to that page, like we do with other cards? Hi 8 7 8  (Come shout at me!) 21:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. Maybe we should create a subpage specifically for DAFT candidates. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 02:08, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


 * See /DAFT —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 17:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)


 * A page worthwhile of watching. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 02:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

It might be time for a WikiBreak when...
It might be time for a WikiBreak when you have a dream in which you meet up face-to-face with the trading card game design team and they suddenly realize what a stickler you can be when it comes to legalities...

...and when there is only one week left of classes and you've got a lot of things to wrap up between now and then.

I'm going to try again to take a WikiBreak (last time I got rudely interrupted by a bug in a template I help out with). Try not to have too much fun without me, and please chase me away if I pop back in here before the 10th. Need...motivation.... As always, I'm reachable via my talk page or email. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 04:47, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * No! We need you!  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 05:40, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * It's good to feel needed. My studies are needing to feel needed right now, though.  It's just that this project is moving faster than my homework-- so fast that it's occupying all my time to keep up with it. That's why I need to take a break for a the rest of the semester. I'm debating on the enforced version, but ... I don't know. Actually, when I worked at the bank, the policy was that if you felt like the job couldn't get done without you, and didn't take any vacation, they'd force a vacation on you just to make sure you weren't up to something. I'm not up to anything, but I do think I can trust you two to hold down the fort for nine days. After all, Hi, you trusted Canvas and me for a week...  When I get back, I promise I will start making the images again and redo any of them needing redone. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 05:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't really trust you two; I expected the entire thing to have fallen apart, so I was pleasantly surprised when I returned to discover that almost nothing had happened instead.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 05:59, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Lol. The world did nearly stop turning... Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 06:59, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Obviously, Wikipedia cannot run when I am not here.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 07:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Jimbo ought to put you in his will. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 03:42, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I should be his will.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 00:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Some ideas to be formally proposed
Proposed by: 2/3 December 2010

Sorry for the crude format, I'm crunched for time and there were a lot of them

To propose

 * Nothing (special, cannot be sacrificed)
 * Change user access level of opponent (edit, admin+)
 * plagiarism vandal (vandal)
 * Non-disclosure vandal
 * Patent violation vandal
 * Advertising vandal
 * Hoax vandal
 * Slow internet (instant/discord)
 * Identity theft (vandal/vandalism)
 * In-universe writing (vandalism)

Done

 * Temporary ban (discord)
 * Vandal for every other turn (vandal)
 * WikiBreak (positive discord, lose a turn)
 * Copyright violation vandal
 * SVG font problems (discord)
 * Web filter (instant/discord)
 * Protect (edit, admin+)
 * Backups lost (discord, really bad)

Comments
'Twould be good if there were descriptions for these; I don't like having to guess for most of them. I will, however, comment on the ones that I can assume. Temporary ban should not be discord; bans are not enacted to cause discord. Switch hands: No! Idiotic. Considering that people are using different decks, that could get too confusing. Change access level: We are attempting to make it seem as though we are all trying to work together; that makes it seem closer to a battle. For WikiBreak, I don't know wha you are thinking, but I would like to point out that "positive discord" is an idiotic class for the card; no such thing exists, as far as I am aware. Other than that, I will wait fordescriptions of cards to comment on them. Hi 8 7 8  (Come shout at me!) 01:13, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * When I said "instant and discord" I meant 2 cards should be created, one as discord and one as an instant to oppose a vandal. That list of cards ending in vandal were vandals, protect could be used to help or to oppose your opponent or a vandal, I'm not sure how we might lose backups, but it would be really devastating. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 21:05, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * For loss of backup...Flip a coin. If heads, discard the leftmost half of all articles and polices in play. If tails, the rightmost. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 01:51, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Formal proposal, please. Nicky, I would suggest putting a list like this on your userpage from now on; this is the place for formal proposals, not a place to store a list of ideas that you will propose eventually.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 23:36, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Putting together all those proposals would take FOREVER! Maybe we should put together a subpage for to-be-requested cards, so people can request a request... —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 13:30, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Likewise, reviewing each one scrutinously and illustrating it will take forever. Let's follow some procedure and keep this process as streamlined as possible, it's already sloppy enough Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 23:23, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

uhh...
About that...

What about semiprotection...

and wait, who wasn't here?

I didn't notice that

any of you were gone.

in fact, I had always

heard your voices

in the background,

and never noticed any of you

leave

--stop.

this sounds like a poem

ok

but anyways, cutting out me

talking to myself

what

about

semi

protection

-- Canvas  Hat  01:54, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Good point. Protection level needs to be specified if you're wanting a card to be protected. Gold locks (admin access only) and silver locks (auto-confirmed and higher) should be no problem to implement. Any others, we'll have to discuss how to handle. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 03:33, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Canvas, I think that you need to see a wikidoctor.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 01:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * And we meet here again for another Wikiholics Anonymous Meeting. Hi, everyone. I'm Bob and I haven't edited Wikipedia for 60 seconds. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 03:23, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Good lord! How did you last that long‽  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I found sometimes I can make it longer by stopping to reflect upon what other editors have done before responding. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 03:34, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Crazy.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

some

i t


 * do

i


 * things

m


 * like

e


 * that

s

oohh... distraction!!!

-- Canvas  Hat  02:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

i went 86.49 secs without pressing that button after my, uhhh...-- Canvas  Hat  02:15, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * .56secs later...must...edit... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canvashat (talk • contribs) 02:16, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 4.29secs later...all this waiting is makng me tired.-- Canvas  Hat  02:18, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 6.37secs later...must WikiDiet...-- Canvas  Hat  02:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

FA about cheese (or any food) hard to get
As was stated in the main project page, the category of "needed tribute articles" included cheese, but there are not even ten featured articles that have to do with "food and drink". VeryPunny 19:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * True...looks like Cheese works, but there are no other qualifying cheese articles. In fact, Cheese barely qualifies...it's not an FA anymore, but it once was. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:28, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

NOTICE
my brain isn't functioning...
 * Name of card: We need some edit cards...
 * Class: Edit
 * Text: K?...
 * Proposed by:  Canvas  Hat  01:42, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Comments

? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 13:12, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Talk page... But you're correct. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 00:37, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Split page?
This page is getting a bit long and unwieldy... Perhaps we should split out each section (i.e. Cards for approval, Approved cards for illustration, Illustrated cards for approval, Approved finalized cards) into its own page? I also think it would be good to organize the cards by type within each page.

Also, to help navigate all these pages, I've started making a navbox at Template:Wiki card game. Let me know what you think. Antony–22 (talk/contribs) 07:00, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds reasonable...I'll just have to keep a few extra tabs open. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:29, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I suppose we could make an extra page with all the four pages transcluded onto it, for the convenience of people who want to have a single place to look for updates. Antony–22 (talk/contribs) 06:25, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, good idea. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 20:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, a few more issues: (1) The links to create a new card only put a new section at the bottom of the article. Is there a way to have them put a new subsection inside a given section?  We'd have to do this if each card type had its own section.  (2) Is it necessary to have separate subsections for "Comments", "Quote suggestions", etc.?  They really clutter up the TOC, and it would be just as effective to have the word "Comments" in bold rather than make it an actual subsection heading.  Antony–22 (talk/contribs) 02:48, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Since editing using the "Comments" edit button is being discouraged, I'm removing the headers from the preload templates right now. Thanks for that observation and suggestion. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Also-- if you break the main page into transclusions, you'll just need to change the edit links to point the the appropriate transcluded page-- problem solved. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 23:29, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * What I mean is, say there's a section for Article cards which is in the middle of the article. Is there a way to add a new subsection to the end of the "Articles" section, rather than the end of the whole page? Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 21:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Not to my knowledge. That doesn't mean there's not, just that I haven't found any way to do it. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 18:45, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Geolocale
Y'all, when we get to the testing phase, the means by which we test may complicate the phase itself.

If we live near each other, we can hold meetings at a set locale. However, we may instead need to use webcams or the like in order to conduct a proper test.

So....below, I've designed a short little survey to help out with figuring out our testing methods.

What part of the world do you currently reside in?

 * 1) Evansville, IN Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Virgo Supercluster -- Canvas  Hat  20:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) To remain undisclosed, I'll say it's in the Northern hemisphere. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Sorry, but you all aren't special enough to know that. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 19:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Asia. 23•32 07:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

How far are you currently willing to travel to play a test game?

 * 1) 30 minutes or 10 miles. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) prefer computer-- Canvas  Hat  20:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) I'm nailed to my computer chair, I'm not going anywhere. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Nowhere.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 19:17, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Probably can't. 23•32 07:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a webcam?

 * 1)  Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) -- Canvas  Hat  20:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I'm not willing to use it to talk to strangers. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Probably.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 19:17, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Nope. 23•32 07:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a server where you would be willing host a database for an electronic prototype of the game, if someone should develop that?

 * 1)  Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) -- Canvas  Hat  20:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) I know someone who has a comcast email, which allows you to host sites on a subdomain. We could also use Google sites, or a WikiFarm. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I do not.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 19:18, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) No. 23•32 07:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Do you have the ability to code such a prototype?

 * 1)  Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) -- Canvas  Hat  20:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) No. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Heh. Funny.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 19:19, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Probably not. 23•32 07:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Do you have the time to code such a prototype?

 * 1) Maybe. Not likely.  Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) -- Canvas  Hat  20:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'm always busy doing something else online. So, yes, but I can't. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Even funnier than the last one.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 19:19, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Probably not. 23•32 07:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Comments
Heh, testing this is gonna be even more a challenge than I anticipated. :P

While I've got the skill required to design the electronic testing prototype, time to do so is another issue entirely-- right now I'm scraping up time to illustrate cards-- then again, graduation is only a semester away, thankfully. Seeing as how none of us live near each other (as best I can tell), testing with webcams may be our best option-- even if it's a lousy means to do it. But...back to card approval and design... Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 19:53, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid of webcams. Would IRC work? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Webcams would be supplemental to IRC or other method of chat. They would give us a visual-spatial representation of the cards in play. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 20:37, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Living People
You just put something on the page about articles about living people needing documentation of their approval. I have a question, as a result: Can you take my word for it that Mr. Abbott gave me permission? I can assure that he did, but if you need some sort of documentation, I can provide it. How would I get it to you, exactly? Also, is this actually necessary? I know that it would definitely be good form to get permission, but is it actually necessary? What if the person proves to be unreachable? Hi 8 7 8  (Come shout at me!) 06:55, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Well,I trust you, don't know if Bob and Nicky and Anthony trustyou.-- Canvas  Hat  23:24, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I actually just changed it from BLP's to just biographies. This was both to increase the number of cards it applies to, and because using an actual living person as a card does run into permission issues.  (I'm sure Jimbo won't mind, but we probably wouldn't be able to get permission from more than a handful of people even if we tried.  This is especially important in foreign countries which recognize personality rights, something which doesn't exist in the U.S. (edit: I spoke too soon, it varies state to state.)  Hey, maybe if this game becomes popular and established, we can do a BLP expansion pack, but for now I don't think we're going to be able to have a whole lot of them.)  Antony–22 (talk ⁄ contribs) 04:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I added that as a notice for future ones. I trust you. Antony raises some interesting points. A BLP expansion pack isn't a bad idea at all! Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 04:52, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * BTW, feel free to make a card about me (not that I'll ever tell you who I am.) —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 23:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Would it have a picture of a cute girl on it? Bob the WikipediaN  (talk • contribs) 00:51, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Illustrating Cards
Sorry, I'm a bit new to this project, but I have a few questions regarding the illustration of the cards approved for illustration:

1) A bunch of the approved cards seem to have a quote agreed upon, but is there any way to ensure that this is true beyond "yep, that sounds good!"?

2) Where do the illustrations get uploaded to?

3) How much of the card needs to be illustrated at this point (just the picture, the picture and the quote, the whole card, etc.)?

I apologize if the answers for these can be found elsewhere, but I could not find them. This looks like a great project and I'm interested in getting involved! Thanks!  EW  i kist Talk 01:59, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a fairly small panel at the moment, so if everyone who's been online for about a week or two agrees with "yup, sounds good", it's good. The panel is fairly dynamic, too...people move in and out of the project as their time allows. For the most part, Hi and I are really the only two who have been here somewhat solidly for the past several months; the rest are here and then not here and then here again.


 * Illustrations may be found at the WP:TCG Wiki. The project reserves all rights on the card design, which is why the images cannot be uploaded to Wikimedia's servers.


 * Illustrations of the entire card are (slowly, as time allows) being fulfilled via Inkscape. The card is designed as a vector and exported for upload to the wiki as a PNG (we've had issues with displaying the vectors properly online and also across systems). When the card is printed (probably several years from now, the SVG will likely be exported as a higher resolution PNG before printing to ensure no awkward line widths, etc.


 * The reason card illustration is so backed up at the moment is I have been super-busy with testing, debugging, and deploying a new template for the WP:TOL WikiProject. It's a wonderful piece of code, but it's been rather demanding on those of us working on it. Once the code is bug-free, I should be able to resume illustrating cards.


 * Hope to see more of you around! Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 05:06, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for mentioning me, my dear sir. It does wonders for my ego. :) This is probably one of the most fun things I have found on Wikipedia, and it makes the WMF money (eventually...), so how could I do anything but contribute as much as I can?  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 05:21, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification! By the way, is there a template somewhere (a blank card) to base the proposed images off of?  EW  i kist Talk 16:08, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * There's a template at the wiki. When saving, save two copies-- first, save the image as an SVG for future editing in case you need to touch it up. Second, "Export as bitmap", using PNG format and 90dpi, 210x311px. If you share the SVG version, chances are we'll all find it rather distastefully detailed, as the SVG renderer for MediaWiki is, unfortunately, rather clunky when it comes to displaying text. The Arial font is the only font being used. If you use Inkscape (which I'd recommend), keep in mind that you should never use the resize handles for text boxes-- that skews the text undesirably. Borders should be resized as needed. The image can be cropped using a vector clipping mask. Be sure to credit the person responsible for whatever image you use, and also be sure the image is from the Commons, not from Wikipedia; that way we're sure it's free to use. Also, be sure to follow the same format as other cards in that class. I'm considering putting some documentation up for editing cards to make it more streamlined. Would anyone find that helpful? Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 23:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation, and yes, I'd say documentation based around what you just said would be very beneficial. If you need any assistance with setting that up just let me know!  EW  i kist Talk 00:26, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * http://wptcg.wikia.com/wiki/WPTCG_Wiki:Designing_cards
 * Once we've got an Autoconfirmed card, I'm planning on making an Edit template. For now, let's just hold back on anything requiring an access level (as well as protected cards) until I put some sort of template together to handle those. Actually, I think I'll go ahead and add the lock to the template so it can be used for protected articles. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 05:35, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've updated the good article template such that it now has hidden layers with the gold and silver locks to make article-locking quick and painless. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 05:49, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel so inadequate! You all are designing cards, and all I'm doing is commenting! Bleh. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 05:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not true, you're helping keep us alive and doing the archival now. And keeping me laughing. Oddly, also keeping a degree of sanity here. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 07:26, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * If I'm the sane one, we've got problems. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 23:56, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You're like Squidward or Bert; you complain and nag, but you keep the project grounded and are funny when you get sarcastic. And no, I don't mean to make you sound grumpy, you're just... uh... strict. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 04:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You, my dear sir, have just made my day.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 05:10, 13 January 2011 (UTC)



Quote text for articles
Is there a specific criteria for the quote text on article cards? Also, is it something we need to agree upon (like the regular quotes)? Thanks,  EW  i kist Talk 19:17, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Once I finish documenting the automatic taxobox I'm planning on compiling some formal standards for card design, using only things that we have thus far agreed upon. As far as quotes go, there are a couple things we've agreed on:


 * Don't quote yourself.
 * When quoting, be sure that if it's something that might embarrass someone, you get their permission.
 * Always link to the quote when proposing it so we can verify it.
 * Quotes should be short if possible; keep in mind the text has to fit on the card.
 * Quotes may come from any Wikimedia site or the #wikipedia IRC channel.
 * Article cards don't get quotes, but all other cards do.
 * Quotes should be tasteful and pertain to the card's topic.
 * The quotee must be credited. If the quotee posted it in a non-talk space, scour the history to figure out who added the quote.
 * If the quotee was an unregistered IP, credit it to "Anonymous User".
 * Quotes must be agreed upon.


 * For article summaries, we haven't established any clear rules yet. So far, we've just been briefly summarizing the opening paragraphs.


 * Any other questions? Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 18:55, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


 * That answered my question! Thanks!  EW  i kist Talk 21:44, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, but exceptions are always OK. If something is really hilarious, and the bosses (Bob and Hi) both support, an exception is completely acceptable. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 04:52, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm a boss? Cool!  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 05:10, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * There's no denying it, Hi. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 21:37, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * What if you're unlike me, and someone quotes you?-- Canvas  Hat  22:13, 13 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Oddly, I think we did quote you on WP:BAG, didn't we? Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 00:53, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Tributes for anons?
If an anon helps to the level of deserving a tribute, would it be possible to give them one? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 20:47, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * That's a tough one... My immediate thought is that they should obviously get a tribute card, but there isn't really a good way to actually mark as being a tribute to them, seeing as IPs can change. Anyone have any ideas?  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 23:25, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's probably not a good idea to put a person's IP publically on a card, especially considering it could easily change. Maybe we could simply encourage them to make an account?  EW  i kist Talk 01:35, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * But what should we do if they don't create an account? We should probably come up with a plan, if that ever happens.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:12, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Should we just refuse to allow them "tribution" if they don't create one eventually? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 23:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Folks who wish to remain anonymous may be thanked with an anonymously directed thanks, I'd say. "We'd like to thank a project contributor who wishes to remain anonymous." Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 21:39, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you, name withheld! —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 00:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * And happy birthday, Wikipedia! I had a lot of fun at the party! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs) 00:28, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to hear it I spent several hours on the IRC and listened to BBC, NPR, and WNIN all simultaneously through the same lone earbud the whole time. I managed to pick up an interview with Jimbo on both BBC and NPR. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 22:41, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ad
Were we still interested in having a Wikipedia ad (as mentioned here during Phase 0)? I'd be happy to make one if it would be beneficial to the project.  EW  i kist Talk 00:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you have adequate GIF-editing software? We'll probably need a subpage to run a review process, which, after spending months doing this, is automatic. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 12:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I've done a few WP ads with GIMP, which seems to work pretty good. I'll see if the others think its a good idea before going further.  EW <sub style="color:red;"> i kist <sup style="color:black;">Talk 22:49, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I say let's go for it! Anything to attract contributors! ♠  TomasBat   23:03, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Although I don't really like the whole idea of Wikipedia Ads, I think that it would probably help.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 00:07, 20 January 2011 (UTC)


 * All of the WP ads I've seen are cheesy. I want something that looks as professional as this. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 01:55, 20 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to the fact that it's a static image or the intense classiness radiating from the image?  EW <sub style="color:red;"> i kist <sup style="color:black;">Talk 02:00, 20 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sure Nicky was referring to both.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 02:04, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

It's a slow-starting GIF, you need to give it a minute. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 04:10, 20 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see now. I thought you were talking the ad thing at the top of the page, not the cyclone-text effect. That'd be a difficult thing to imitate, but I'm sure it's possible if that's what we want.  EW <sub style="color:red;"> i kist <sup style="color:black;">Talk 00:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I was just saying that, if we're making an ad, I'd prefer one of that quality. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 01:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I concur. Anybody have any specific ideas?  EW <sub style="color:red;"> i kist <sup style="color:black;">Talk 02:28, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * "Wanna do volunteer work to help pay other people's salaries? Love delicate copyright situations? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then WP:TCG is right for you!" —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * We don't want to scare people away. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 06:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * There's no reason not to try! :) —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:57, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Working on one right now... —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 07:50, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * How's this? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 08:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I like it, but it seems like it has some room for a bit more... pizazz (Fading transition, perhaps?). The style goes will with the cards we're making, though. Also, on the third frame, do you want it to say "Wikipedia Trading Card Game", or just "Wikipedia Card Game"?  EW <sub style="color:red;"> i kist <sup style="color:black;">Talk 17:06, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I think we'd personally prefer it to say card game, but it will make no difference to the users on the receiving end. I could make it fade on my other computer, but not the one I used to make that. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 20:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that it looks far too boring, and I really wouldn't want it to be used the way that it is. I prefer "Wikipedia Trading Card Game", because "Wikipedia Card Game" sounds, in my opinion, idiotic.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 23:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Two things: 1: Is this okay? 2: WHY DOES WP KEEP LOGGING ME OUT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.155.178 (talk) 00:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * And I realize it's too fast, it's a bug in my GIF software. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.155.178 (talk) 00:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Still too boring. In addition, the text-height-differences are perhaps a bit too great.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 01:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Fine. Your turn. -NN
 * Whoa, look at this one! —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 08:06, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Is this kind of thing considered to be something of sufficient quality?  EW <sub style="color:red;"> i kist <sup style="color:black;">Talk 15:09, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Besides the annoying thing where it disappears, I think that's fine. Does anyone have photoshop? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 21:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, I was just trying to get an idea about what kind of thing you were talking about. I don't have Photoshop, by the way.  EW <sub style="color:red;"> i kist <sup style="color:black;">Talk 22:08, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

A question on tributes
"Additionally, regular contributors to this phase (we know who you are, and you do, too) are entitled to nominate one good article of their choice, regardless of its quality. The only requirement is that it is in the main article space."

By "good article", do you mean WP:GA? Because later it says "regardless of its quality". Sorry, I'm a bit confused... ♠  TomasBat   23:02, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Huh. I never actually read that, and Bob did make it rather unclear. :) He meant good as in the card class in the game, not the rating on WP. I shall tweak that sentence.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 00:08, 20 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Right, "good-class" seems to be a bit of a source for confusion. Hi's correct. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times">B OB THE W IKIPEDIA N (talk • contribs) 00:40, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Notation
For when we're testing the game on chat, or just as a shorthand in discussions, would it make sense to have a gameplay notation? For example, c=GlitBot, psychoFF+v might mean "Glitched Bot drawn, add a vandalism counter to Psychedelic frogfish." Similar to explanations in Singmaster notation. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 21:11, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think it is worth it. It wouldn't really be that hard to type out the whole thing, especially compared to needing to remember every bit of notation for each card. I would prefer to just speak like humans. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 23:49, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't mean we had to abbreviate cards. But for when we're testing the game, if it's over IRC, we should have abbreviations like brackets around what's drawn, or +v for a vandalism... whatever happens in a particular turn.71.196.155.178 (talk) 00:28, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think a lingo will naturally develop as we test it. We're jumping ahead, though-- testing won't come for awhile yet-- most likely at least a year from now. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 23:42, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I can wait that long... I'LL NEVER MAKE IT! —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 03:10, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Someone call NASA and have them prepare a canister to deep-freeze Nicky for a few years... <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 03:44, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Would that mean I would get to miss jury duty? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 07:06, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Being deep-frozen would put you into a state of unconsciousness, disqualifying you from jury duty. Please note that this is not legal advice and is being given from a resident of Indiana. Laws may differ significantly in your area. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 16:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I probably get my legal advice from less-qualified people. Anyway, you said we're waiting on the notation. Case closed. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 00:13, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Was I the only one thinking c=GlitBot, psychoFF+v? If so, does that mean I have a lower than average I.Q.?-- Canvas  Hat 

Multiple quotees
I've seen that we quote the original author of a quote, and list the original text. Wouldn't it just be easier to use the current quote, and list the first editor or two with an et al? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 06:21, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Haha, it sounds so crazy, but I like it! Btw...sorry for my inactivity here...I've been pretty busy with classes. I'll check in periodically when I can-- don't wait around for me on anything right now-- but if you need me, notify me at my talk page. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 23:40, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't like it. to be honest. I prefer just using the original; less digging, that way.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 00:09, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I like both ways, so please, null my vote. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 00:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * On second thought...I like the way we've been doing it better. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 00:17, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, whatever. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 00:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Why the major slow-down?
Where, exactly, did everybody go? When I joined the TCG project, things were bustling... Maybe we should get working again on that WP ad... —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 19:19, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not summer yet-- I'll be graduating shortly. Once summer comes, I'll probably have time to begin illustrating again. Also, for the last few months I've been heavily involved in getting the automatic taxobox template family working and rolled out. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 00:03, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I get it. I did join during the break, huh? Well, that solves one question, and I know where Hi is... I guess I'll just have to wait a month or two and then we can start things moving again. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 01:19, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What? You know where I was? Scary...  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:11, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Signpost?
Phase 0 has an ad in the Signpost on the to-do list. Just wondering if anyone has actually proposed this to them...71.196.155.178 (talk) 18:03, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, that was me, Nicky.71.196.155.178 (talk) 18:04, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure about Signpost, but this has been on the community bulletin board several times over the last year. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 05:42, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Should I add it? —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 21:40, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait until mid-May or the end of May; that way we'll get participation from high schoolers and college-bound students as well. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 00:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * A'rringht. —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talk • contribs • wikia) 11:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ready, aim, fire! <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 21:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Username change
To avoid confusion, I'd like to tell everyone that I've officially changed my username from Nicky Nouse to Airhogs777, to match my login on nearly every other site I've signed up for. —Preceding signed comment added by Airhogs777 (talk • contribs • wikia) 18:22, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, saw that on my watchlist, Nicky, but thanks for letting us know . <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 19:45, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What? I liked your other name! Urgh. You won't mind if I still call you Nicky, will you? I don't think I can switch that without making a major effort. By the way, does this mean you want the name on your tribute card changed?  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Fine if you call me Nicky. And yes, it would be nice if it was changed on my card, but User:Nicky Nouse is a redir. So unless my card becomes outrageously famous, I don't think it will be a big problem. —Preceding signed comment added by Airhogs777 (talk • contribs • wikia) 21:41, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Help!
I need you all to bug me. I am back to Wikipedia, for the most part, but I keep forgetting to come here. If I go a few days without editing here, I need someone to bug me about it! Hi 8 7 8  (Come shout at me!) 03:13, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll be the most annoying of them all! You'll be so proud of me! —Preceding signed comment added by Airhogs777 (talk • contribs • wikia) 21:43, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Time to narrow our focus?
Is it just me, or has this page gotten discouragingly gigantic? Well, I know two of our members' computers are feeling this as well...so maybe it isn't just my mind.

We've gotten to the point where the page is so large with so many things to do that it takes a LONG time to get through it and get caught up; so long that new happenings simply don't happen. Perhaps if we focus on one specific section of the page (preferably toward the top of the page), we can get things moving again.

I'm partly to blame since I haven't had the time lately to put images together, but I've noticed even quote suggestions and advancement of approved cards have come to a halt. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 17:56, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The fact that only a few of us ever contributed doesn't help the inactivity. :) I've thought of this a few times as well; working on clearing out one section at a time would probably work well.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 22:59, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you!-- Canvas  Hat  16:19, 9 January 2012 (UTC)


 * For?  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 00:13, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, It's been a while. My computer couldn't handle the activity on the site, I think. Canvas  Hat  19:36, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Inactive
Hi, people:

This page has become inactive, since it hasn't been edited in 3+ years. What can we do with this?

I suppose we could delete this page - but that will cause a riot.

Can we get more people to edit and review? Thanks!

Vinethemonkey (talk) 16:52, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Vinethemonkey