Wikipedia talk:Twinkle/Archive 8

Deletion notifications and sorting
Two ideas;


 * 1) I just noticed this conversation and wanted to mention it here. I noticed that Twinkle notifies the creator of an article if I AfD it. Could you adjust twinkle to also drop a note to the top 3-5 contributors to a given article as well, plus the creator? It would be very fair and useful. Especially since many people also watch each others' talk pages, I'd assume, giving even more visibility to notifications.
 * 2) Would it be possible to have Twinkle AfDs automatically do a deletion sorting? I.e., to something like WikiProject Deletion sorting/Software? •  Lawrence Cohen  20:28, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Request
Would it be possible to add this template as a Single issue notice,, to be left on a questionable username's talk page? Ariel ♥ Gold 22:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Adding it to the requests here might bring it to attention Wikipedia talk:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Twinkle/to do. Phgao 09:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops it's already here . Phgao 09:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't like Twinkle
I got directed to this page twice. Once when a guy tried to speedy-delete a new article I had just opened (now in AfD heading toward a strong Keep) and the second time when another guy insta-reverted my edit to another article (without saying a peep on the talk page). Is it Twinkle's purpose to make being a nuisance easier? Perturbedly, Bacchiad 03:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Twinkle is just a tool. The people that use it are responsible for using it correctly. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Speedy tagging
The "Tag article only, don't delete" checkbox on CSD isn't working; even if I just want to tag a borderline case so another admin can give a second opinion, it's deleting the article altogether. This has only started happening in the last couple of days. —  iride scent   (talk to me!)  18:50, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Happened to me today. Firefox 2.0.0.7.  W ODU P  10:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Was a phailure from my side, my limited expertise in Js coding. → Aza Toth 15:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Documentation
Where is the user manual for Twinkle? --Mperry 20:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Somewhere deep in my brain I'm afraid. → Aza Toth 22:19, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be much appreciated if you could write something to help users get started, even if it was a quick-start guide. I have added the appropriate line of javascript to my monobook.js file but I have no idea how I start and access Twinkle. --Mperry 23:46, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you cleared your cache? --Closedmouth 07:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Stupid question, but are you using a compatible browser? Twinkle doesn't work in IE. —  iride scent   (talk to me!)  15:57, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Cleared the cache. I'm using Firefox 2.  What exactly am I supposed to be looking for? --Mperry 17:24, 4 October 2007 (UTC) Update: I've noticed that I have some new links on the page when looking at diffs. One link says "rollback (AGF)" but I have no idea what AGF means. I'm going to start a documentation section on the Twinkle page and add what I have found. --Mperry 19:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * AGF stands for assume good faith, basically its for reverts where the users have done something that is wrong but not because they intentionally want to harm it. -- Hdt 83     Chat 00:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a wiki, and lots of people here know how to use the various aspects of Twinkle, so, I've started a documentation page that people can add to as they have time. &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 14:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Er. . . Warn tab on the lam?
My "warn" tab, normally showing its face when I look at user talk pages, seems to have inexplicably disappeared. I'm not sure if I should file an official bug report on this. Has anyone else seen this? Into The Fray T /C  23:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have experienced the same problem. I'm using firefox Y4kk 23:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've got the same problem on Firefox. It was working less than 2 hours ago, but now it isn't.-MBK004 23:57, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have now filed a bug report Y4kk 00:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * yep same hereRidernyc 00:37, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * AzaToth made an edit today to the twinklewarn.js file, which discombobulated it or something like that. If you depend on the warn tab then I suggest, until it's fixed, that you put the twinkle.js and twinklewarn.js files in your userspace and make sure you use the previous version of twinklewarn. And make sure to reword the code so it looks to your space and not AzaToth's. F-402 00:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Same. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WARN PEOPLE WITHOUT HAVING TO DO HARD WORK?! haha. —  j acĸrм  ( talk ) 02:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * vandals are going to have fun until this gets fixed, guess I'll go back to working on The Residents Ridernyc 03:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I am seeing the same problem. Just noticed the warn tab is gone. BeanoJosh 03:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

(reset indent)Well, it's not like we can't just type out the warnings and talk headings... we just have to remember the ones we usually use. :-)--SarekOfVulcan 03:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've noticed just how much easier twinkle has made our lives after this has happened. Hopefully the vandals won't figure out why the reverts still say "with TW" but that the warnings on their talk pages don't. Now, let's hope this gets fixed very quickly.-MBK004 03:57, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup. Does anyone know of a old userfied version of twinkle that we can use as a replacement? (Like the last time TW went on hiatus?) Cheers, -- B figura (talk) 04:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at my comment a few comments up from this one. You can use the old edit to function as your Twinkle. F-402 04:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

(undent) Thanks. For some reason I misread it, and thought some alteration of code was necessary. (Instead of just copy/pasting a few .js files, then renaming the calls to them in my monobook.) -- B figura (talk) 04:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've got it userfied if you need it until an explanation or correction is given..  importScript('User:Allstarecho/twinkle.js');  to your monobook.js --   ALLSTAR    ECHO  08:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I forgot to test it when I synced it against WP:UTM yesterday, dunno why, was tired perhaps, should work now. → Aza Toth 13:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Warn tab still not showing up for me (and yes, I bypassed the cache) &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 14:10, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It isn't working for me either.-MBK004 14:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * → Aza Toth 14:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Now it works, just as I needed to use it also. Thanks,MBK004 14:59, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Firefox 2.0.0.7, Win XP / SP2, stopped working for me last night. I loaded User:Wikidudeman's script for the warning tab, and it works, but without it, there is no warn tab in the UI. I'll check now without WDM's line and report back. Ariel ♥  Gold 15:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's now working for me too. I could have sworn I bypassed the cache. weird :) &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 15:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Works now, thanks Aza! (And thank you for adding all the new notices! Those are extremely helpful!) Ariel ♥ Gold 15:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Works for me too. Thanks! —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 01:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Signature does note appear on blocked users' talk pages
When leaving block notices on user talk pages, the signature code is left in the edit window but does not appear on the page itself. Examples:, ,.  W ODU P  05:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Second report. Firefox, v2.0.0.7.  - Philippe &#124; Talk 04:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Third report, if it helps any... Firefox, v2.0.0.7 as well. SQL(Query Me!) 08:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Happens on Firefox 2.0.0.6 and 2.0.0.7 for me.  W ODU P  04:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Works now.  W ODU P  01:03, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Thanks! SQL(Query Me!) 19:42, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

since mine
the 'since mine' function using firefox has been inoperable for the past couple days. i've done the requisite cache flush, and it's still a no-go. is it just me? --emerson7 19:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It works for me using Firefox.-MBK004 19:12, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

TW removing half an article
After reverting some vandalism on Cuba, TW deleted half the page (A full 67,314 bytes). Revision History of Cuba, revision date 19:16, October 13, 2007 Neobros 18:26, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just noticed another person with the same problem, clearly a bug. Neobros 18:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Both my reversion, and the other reverion I noticed on Revision history of Intelligent design did not occur as TW-b-0013 specifies; in reply to my bug report Neobros 19:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They are both the same bug, TW-B-0013 did only specify that particular problem, but it is basically the same, I am investigating the problem, but as it happens so sporadic, I really dont know where the problem lies. To be able to solve the problem I need the full POST and GET data sent to and from the server at the action. → Aza Toth 19:14, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see; Fair enough. Neobros 19:26, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm having problems in Opera. Serious problems.
When I'm viewing a page in Firefox, everything works fine. However, when I use portable opera 9.5 alpha, the last/rpp/prod/xfd tabs don't show up. Also, when I use the csd tab, the window pops up, but nothing happens when I select an option. I'm going to test it in portable Opera 9.23 to see if it works. I'm not quite sure whether I should file a bug report on this, it could just be my browser for some unexplicable reason.⁮şœśэїŝәқιￆṱᾅἻқￂ 02:33, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm. When I use version 9.23, only the rpp tab shows up. ⁮şœśэїŝәқιￆṱᾅἻқￂ 02:38, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Tested it in normal Opera v9.23, only the rpp tab shows up as well. ⁮şœśэїŝәқιￆṱᾅἻқￂ 02:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting. The problem's fixed.. for now. ⁮şœśэїŝәқιￆṱᾅἻқￂ 04:36, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Appears to affect Safari 2.x as well
Same issue as before. Works just fine under Firefox, but no tabs at all under Safari. :: Colin Keigher ( Talk ) 04:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

TfD noincludes
When a template is nominated for deletion using Twinkle, it is wrapping tfd in noincludes. Please can these be removed as the TfD notice should be visible on template tranclusions. Thanks, mattbr 08:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What would happen with template that are subst'ed? &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 04:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for spotting that! In those cases, it should (as far as I can think) be noincluded. Perhaps it can be a question or an option in the nomination process as to whether it should be noincluded. In the majority of cases though the notice should be visible on transclusions. mattbr 19:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I know it should definitely wrap speedy deletions in noincludes. I experienced the chaos this causes where the db shows up on every page where the template is transcluded. Not a pretty sight and it causes all the pages to be listed as candidates for speedy deletion. And yes, it should also use noincludes for temps. that should be subst'd. Rocket000 22:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

TW popup windows
Can someone outline the thinking in popping up a "crippled" window for editing user talk pages, for vandalism warnings? Surely it would be much better to perform the default open-new action, thereby following the user's preference as regards new window vs. new tab, not making the whole procedure useless if the user first checks the history of the page, and then can't go back to the original edit page, etc. Alai 17:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Without addressing your original question, since I didn't write the script, I'll just mention that you can go back to the initial edit page in the popup window by right-clicking and selecting "Back" from the context menu, or you can press Backspace or Alt-LeftArrow. In FF 2.0.0.7, if you subsequently use the "Warn" script popup once you've gone back, the vandalized article will still populate properly in the warn script. --Darkwind (talk) 21:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I did the second, though I must admit I had to go check what the shortcut was in another window before doing so. I must admit I dislike this behaviour in large part because of the redolence of spamvertising popups using bar-suppression.  To which add, anything that piles on FF space leakage, until someone buys me yet more RAM...  Alai 03:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Please help with documentation
I've started a page on user documentation. Please feel free to flesh it out - I suspect that some of us may even find bits of Twinkle we didn't know about that others use frequently, when the documentation is done! Thanks &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 15:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm sorry I have never wrote any documentation, most of the time, I have known what TW does :) → Aza Toth 15:26, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm working on some of this as I write this. I'll see what I can do do be concise about it, I could ramble all day. -- tennis man  16:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

How do you configure the script for Mozilla-only operation?
Hi there. I use my WP account in multiple places, and depending on where I am, I may either be using IE7 or Firefox 2.x. Is there a convenient way to set up Twinkle so it's available in Mozilla, while at the same time it does not attempt to run in IE? &mdash; KieferSkunk (talk) &mdash; 20:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Put the call as following:

→ Aza Toth 20:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you! That did it. :)  And this script is amazing!  Thanks so much for your work on it. :) &mdash; KieferSkunk (talk) &mdash; 21:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I have to ask - where did you put that call on the page? Precisely - I have tried adding it at the end, and the beginning of the .js page, but IE still shows Twinkle merrily twinkling. docboat 01:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The call actually needs to be:


 * and don't forget to force-reload or clear your cache in IE for it to take effect. --Darkwind (talk) 23:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, that did it! Many thanks :) docboat 06:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Automatic section header = Month and Year on user talk pages -- why?
Hello, I have just recently started using TW, and have a question about leaving warnings on user talk pages when I rollback vandalism. See for example. My question is: why does TW create a section with a "October 2007" as the header, instead of the name of page I am rolling back as the header? Regards&mdash; G716  &lt;T·C&gt; 03:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Per recommendation from the User warning project. → Aza Toth 13:31, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See WikiProject user warnings.  нмŵוτн τ  14:03, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for your answers. Is there anyway to tell TW to add the suggested ==Warnings== heading, or is that not needed. Regards&mdash; G716  &lt;T·C&gt; 02:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * From my experience, most vandals only have warning messages, besides perhaps a welcome message.  нмŵוτн τ  22:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Protecting User Page
My user page has been vandalized, and I would like for it to be protected from being edited by any unregistered users. Can I do this? How do I do this? Tigersfan1992 21:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See WP:PROTECT --  ALLSTAR    ECHO  22:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[Image:Streptococcus oralis on Wilkins-Chalgren Agar.JPG]
Why delete the image. It was taken by uploader (my wife) and she had put a license on it. It only was not placed in a tag because she did not how to do it.

It seems inappropriate to me to auto-delete images without looking at the text. Woefully discouraging.

Note on: WP:CSD

" Lack of licensing information. Images in category "Images with unknown source", "Images with unknown copyright status", or "Images with no copyright tag" that have been in the category for more than seven days, and which still lack the necessary information, regardless of when uploaded. Note, users sometimes specify their source in the upload summary, so be sure to check the circumstances of the image. "

--Djihed 14:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * you should address your concerns to the editor who made the change. TW is merely a tool that editors employ to simplify the management and experience of editing. Anastrophe 17:05, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

What does this mean
When i added twinkle it has helped alot with the rollbacks, but what does "rollback(AFG)" mean. Ive been relucentent to use it becuase i dont no what it means ForeverDEAD 21:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The type of rollback determines the edit summary. Rollback (AGF) assumes good faith in the edit summary, rollback (vandal) assumes bad faith, and the normal rollback does not assume anything, but simply states that there was a rollback. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 00:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

max lag
have implemented maxlag into twinkle now, the standard max lag has been sat to 5 seconds, and can be changed using the wpMaxLag variable. it might spit out some errors in the JS error console when maxlag is reported. That's harmeless and is because that the page returned isn't parseable xml. → Aza Toth 23:45, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it normal that I've been getting the lag notice almost every time I use TW for warnings, tagging, etc.? - Rjd0060 15:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been getting it a lot too. What is the reason for adding this? Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 15:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It was a request from the bag. I have set the default to 5 seconds, but if too many is getting the lag too often, I could increase it to 10 seconds, then it would probably never arise. → Aza Toth 16:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Same. I'm getting this far, far, far too often. It's slowing me down. A lot. It seems to be correlated with wiki's own "database server lag," which means that we can't use the tool when the server is lagging, which is often when we need it the most. I don't think this is working as you expect it to... Gscshoyru 16:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it would be a good idea to increase it because I am getting it on 99+% of my TW edits. - Rjd0060 16:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm... how do we set this variable? Gscshoyru 16:22, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Have bumped the default to 10 seconds now. you can set it my defining the variable wpMaxLag in your monobook.js to another value. → Aza Toth 16:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Since you've changed the default value, we probably don't need to change the individual values. - Rjd0060 16:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Gscshoyru - it's supposed to slow you down. That's the point of it, to lower load on the database when database lag (which results from heavy load) is high, but allow the script to run quickly when database lag is low. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 16:35, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't it still have to query every re-try anyway? It was slowing me down now, even with only minor lag. And its pretty amazing that there's that many of us that we exacerbate the lag problems. Gscshoyru 16:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The lag right now is about 2 seconds; what's the maxlag value in Twinkle? They say lag is always higher on Mondays. The point of maxlag is that, instead of just waiting a fixed amount of time between queries and thus being slow all the time, it detects when the database is under pressure and only waits then, when it actually does help the database. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 16:53, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

The actual code is: → Aza Toth 17:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

May I suggest making this opt-in? In my opinion, vandalism reversion is not something one should check maxlag for. If you wait 5 seconds to try again, it's likely that someone else will revert it in the mean time, possibly doubling the amount of data the server sends and receives. Vandalism needs to get reverted regardless of database lag, and if a coordinated vandalism spree is that immense, the developers should lock the database. For something like deletion of images, though, maxlag is a great idea. Grace notes T § 17:07, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there a way, as an individual user, to not use this feature? I see no improvement since you've changed the variable to 10 (still getting the lag notice on nearly every edit). - Rjd0060 22:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd agree that maxlag shouldn't apply to vandalism reversions. For everything else though, it's a great feature. – Mike.lifeguard  &#124; talk 23:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have made a change to exempt the first edit in a session from maxlag. This should make revert and warning unaffected. → Aza Toth 23:44, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Much better! Thanks,  Rjd0060 19:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Maxlag... again!
Tagging article with deletion tag: completed (Earthoid) Creating article deletion discussion page: current lag of 138 seconds is more than our defined maximum lag of 10 seconds, will retry in 10 seconds Adding discussion to todays list: current lag of 136 seconds is more than our defined maximum lag of 10 seconds, will retry in 10 seconds Notifying of initial contributor (Lonestar23): current lag of 132 seconds is more than our defined maximum lag of 10 seconds, will retry in 10 seconds

This leaves me with a tag on the page, and sadly waiting 10-20 minutes for the edit to complete! Any ideas? Chase me ladies, I&#39;m the Cavalry 18:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This has also happened to me today. It takes so long that in one instance, by the time the notice was placed on the talk page of the contributor, the article has been speedily deleted.-MBK004 18:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I have been unable to nominate a page for AFD for almost an hour now. Not sure this is working correctly. If we can only use during off peek hours then it makes twinkle kind of obsolete. Ridernyc 20:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is not because of Twinkle being broken, but because the current lag is enormous - 500 seconds. I will investigate why it's so high. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 20:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The lag is because of some server difficulties; hopefully it will be resolved soon. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 21:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I have changed it so that the ten first edits are exempted from maxlag instead. → Aza Toth 20:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Currently, (for edits subject to the limitation) it waits until maxlag is lower than the limit before performing the edit, right? Why not just have it wait an extra 5 or 10 seconds then do the edit anyway even if the lag is still high? That way the script is still being nicer to the servers than it *was*, but it's not unusable. --Darkwind (talk) 21:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm using the "Retry-After" value returned by the server. → Aza Toth 23:15, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Right, but what I mean is instead of enforcing maxlag again after the Retry-After value elapses, just put the edit through on the second try. That way there is still some delay as requested by the server, but it's not totally unusable. --Darkwind (talk) 23:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)