Wikipedia talk:Twinkle/Archive Friendly 1

I'm on board
I've added Friendly to my monobook, and so we'll see how it works... SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Let me know if you have any problems and what other features you'd like to see!  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 18:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Features/tweaks
Right offhand, I've noticed that the "welcome" tab only shows up on nonexistent pages in the user talk namespace. Can this be changed to show up all the time in the user talk namespace? I've had the case before when welcoming anons that an IP previously used for vandalism later fell into the hands of a legitimate editor. There were already warnings on the page from previous users, but that new user on the IP deserved to be welcomed.

Also right offhand, could you make sure you add Nofootnotes, unreferenced, npov, disputed, Totally-disputed, Original research, and inuse to the script? SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The "welcome" tab should show up on any page in the User Talk namespace, and in my browser, it does. Could you reply with what browser and version you are using so I can do some testing?  I'll go ahead and begin working on implementing the templates you recommended.  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * If you do a full refresh (Ctrl+F5 in Firefox, other details on project page), you should see those templates in the article space under the "tag" tab now! --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, now I can't even see the "tag" tab at all in the article namespace, on my Windows PC at home. I was able to see it on my office Mac before your most recent update, though.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:14, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The "welcome" issue still exists for me, where it only shows up on nonexistent pages. I use Firefox 2.0.0.7 for Windows at home, and I use Firefox 2.0.0.6 for Mac OS X at work.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:14, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I took a look at your monobook.js and it looks like you have multiple imports for AzaToth's morebits.js script. Try removing the duplicates and leave a single import for morebits before all of the Twinkle and Friendly scripts.  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:41, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It could also be that your browser window isn't wide enough to show the tab. I took a copy of your monobook.js file and used it as mine, and the "welcome" and "tag" tabs show up, but waaaay to the right.  Could it be that you're just not seeing them?  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Another user for you
Hi, I've just added the Friendly script and am quite happy with it so far. I have only one gripe: it seems to be using my username as the page link for Welcomevandal. Does it support the GET parameter  to replace this? I haven't been able to do any conclusive tests, and I don't want to go around randomly welcoming people. Other than that, I'm quite impressed. Keep it up, and this script will take up a venerable place in the Wikipedia editors' toolbox. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 11:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and added support for the vanarticle URL parameter for the templates, , , and . If the vanarticle parameter is present, these templates will automatically pick it up from now on.  Are there any other templates that this or a URL parameter would be helpful for that you know of?  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:13, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That's great to hear! I suggested it because it would integrate better with Twinkle's existing talk page-opening functionality, and I can't wait to test it on my next round of vandalism patrol. As for other template ideas, I'll watch for them while I'm editing and make suggestions back here when I come up with them. Cheers for making yet another useful Wikipedia tool! Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 16:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Enhancement - custom tags
Is it possible to extend your scripts to allow user defined templates to be used? For example, if the user defined: friendlywelcome.customList = [ {		label: ': description of template', value: 'custom_template' } ] before calling the script in monobook.js, would it be possible to integrate the tags into WP:FRIENDLY? → AA (talk) — 15:15, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's perfectly possible, and shouldn't be too hard to implement. I'll work on the functionality and documentation today and reply here when it's complete and uploaded.  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:34, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Brilliant! To be more flexible, there'd need to be a way of passing a parameter (e.g. article name). It would be preferable if TWINKLE would adopt this "customisation" layer and then we could have a single warning/tagging interface, but I know AzaToth has mentioned that TW will only support uw-* templates. → AA (talk) — 16:12, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Friendly already accepts the vandarticle URL parameter that is automatically populated by twinkle when reverting a vandalistic page. With custom welcome templates, though, it's hard to keep track of which ones allow parameters and what they are.  Is there a particular welcome template that you would like to see added?  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:21, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of templates such as nn-warn-deletion, sdd etc. → AA (talk) — 16:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've suggested a possible solution for TW here. Please add your views. Cheers. → AA (talk) — 17:19, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've looked at it, and this would actually be very difficult to implement. The Friendly welcome script has hashtables of booleans to keep track of which articles already have headings, signatures, and van support the vandarticle url parameter.  Even if I were to do the enhancement, I can think of no good way to keep track of this for custom tags other than have the user write their own hashtables too, which doesn't seem very user friendly (forgive the pun).  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the investigation. I guess as you're very open to adding new templates, there's less of a need for users to customise themselves. → AA (talk) — 13:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Very true. And if you do decide that you want to customize the templates more than I will, you can copy the script to your userspace and use it.  Adding templates to that would really be no more difficult than if I were to add the feature into the base script  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ioeth (talk • contribs) 14:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

WelcomeSimple header bug
Friendly is adding both  and   when using the WelcomeSimple template option. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 05:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This bug is squashed. There was a mismatch in case in the section that keeps track of templates that have headings already.  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Great! I'll keep a lookout for any other problems. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 14:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Adding and
Would it be possible to add sections and subsections to the tab options? Thanks! Gonzo fan2007 talk ♦ contribs


 * I most definitely second the addition of sections. Adding subsections, however, requires a little more work, since it appears to be designed to be placed at the top of a long section, not the page. If the programming logic can be worked out somehow to let the user easily specify what section to add the tag to, I'd support that one, as well. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 07:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * has been added. I will begin investigating how to accomplish section-specific tagging for tags like .  I'm hoping that I can use regex to parse the headings to be able to target specific sections in the article.  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Best wishes to you. I have no idea how the script really works, but if it's loading wikitext, could you perhaps parse out the headings and populate a dropdown list if a section-specific tag is selected? After the submit, of course. Just an implementation idea. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 14:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That's exactly what I was thinking! The code to do it is definitely not simple, and I'm no regex wizard (for parsing), that's for sure.  I should be able to hack it together eventually, though.  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:10, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the work, it looks great! Gonzo fan2007  talk ♦ contribs 00:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps one of the users in Category:User regex-4 can be persuaded to help? ;-) Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 00:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Date the tags
For the tag tab on articles, we Friendly users are generating more work for SmackBot by placing undated maintenance tags. I suggest making Friendly date the tags, so instead of, for example, it would place. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 10:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Added! Let me know if you notice any bugs with it!  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:47, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Shift-reloading right now... Thanks! Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 14:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Working well so far...no bugs yet. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 15:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion
How about an easy sock-puppet tagging tab? --əˈnongahy ♫Look What I've Done!♫ 14:24, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Twinkle already has that feature under the "arv" tab. Just change the selection box to "Sockpuppet" and enter the suspected sockpuppets along with evidence. --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Minor bug
I found a minor bug. On a nonexistent article page, the "tag" tab still appears. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Notice_the_tag_tab_still_showing_up? (example)] If it's used, I think it just creates an article with no content except for the tags. Could you limit this tag to appear only on existing pages? Pyrospirit ( talk  ·  contribs ) 15:41, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I do see it, and I'll see what I can do about it! Thanks!  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed! Ctrl+F5 to make sure you have the latest version  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep, definitely fixed. Nice job making this script! Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 22:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Stubs
Could I suggest the facility to add stub to articles be disabled? Category:Stubs (which should, ideally, never be used) is bloated enough as it is due to Alaibot's automatic tagging of short uncategorised articles, but at least Alaibot has the excuse of being a bot and unable to make decisions; I can't see any legitimate reason why human editors can't take the extra five seconds to add at least a basic stub category (even something as basic as US-stub); whatever editor time is being saved by automating the stub-tagging is more than cancelled out by the manual sort by WP:WSS that cleaning up afterwards entails. —  iride  scent  21:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Or perhaps you could add in the basic stub categories? It would work pretty well as a pulldown list of options available only when "stub" is checked. There's plenty of room to put it there. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 22:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Good idea - in an ideal world I'd have two menus - one of countries and one of topics (so it could automatically add UK-hist-stub, US-geo-stub etc - but that might be making things too complicated. —  iride  scent  22:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) After looking at the list of all stub types, I noticed that you could probably just take the 20 or so main ones from this list and make those the options in the pulldown menu. Just make it required to choose one if the stub box is checked, and you'll avoid the use of stub completely. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 22:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Iridescent, nice idea. Could be time-consuming to program, though. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 22:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree; both of you have good ideas regarding the stub tagging. I especially like requiring categorized stub tags instead of the uncategorized generic template. Perhaps the list could include just a basic selection and then have an option to type one in manually, with an AJAX request to check if the template exists. Am I suggesting too much? Wish I had more experience with JavaScript; I'd program my own suggestions. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 05:03, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Iridescent, in the meantime I will disable the stub template functionality...your argument for removing it makes perfect sense. I'll begin working on implementing a system that will give access to a wider array of stub templates.  Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * While I'm here just want to say congratulations on all the work everyone's done here - it does make random article/new page patrol a lot easier! (Although I'm not sure "Friendly" is really an appropriate name for a tool used to fill up newly created articles with warning tags...) —  iride  scent  16:01, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I named it Friendly because I originally developed it as a welcoming tool. After I had an understanding of what I could use the script to do, I figured why not put maintenance tags in it? --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and further to the original point - as long as the expand can still be added, the loss of stub shouldn't be a problem, since they effectively have the same meaning. —  iride  scent  16:03, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * has not been removed. Do you have any other suggestions for tags that should/should not be in there?  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * (outdent) Well, it would be great if you could put in context. That's the only tag I regularly use that isn't on the list. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 00:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * has been added! Ctrl+F5 everyone! --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

How About Including Another Template?
How about adding silly to "potential problem user templates?" --əˈnongahy ♫Look What I've Done!♫ 01:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd support that. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 04:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the idea, but would it fit better in with the welcome templates in Friendly or with the warning templates in Twinkle? I ask because one thing that Friendly does is always place templates in the welcome script at the top of the user's talk page, even if there are other messages already there. --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That's what it does, eh? I was wondering. Personally, I don't think that's the best way to handle welcomes; despite the fact that they are welcomes, adding messages from top to bottom is the accepted custom for talk pages, and putting a welcome message at the top that is a week newer than a vandalism message at the bottom of the page could be weird. People not looking at timestamps (which admittedly they probably should) might think the user vandalized after being welcomed. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 14:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If the general consensus is that it should be changed to put welcomes at the end I'll be happy to do it! Ctrl+F5! Welcomes at the bottom of talk pages for everyone! --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:34, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this discussion is best had at WP:WELCOME. Personally, I think welcomes should be at the top of the page. This isn't a warning to the user and therefore should not have any impact on the timing. If the user has vandalised then they need to be given an appropriate uw-* warning. → AA (talk) — 14:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Since it looks like different people want different functionality (personally I like putting welcomes at the top), I've added a new configuration parameter! It's called topWelcomes and it's a boolean.  You can find the new documentation for it here. A status message is even thrown to tell you where it's going! --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Coolness! Sounds like Friendly is shaping up quite fast. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 17:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I aim to please! --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Friendly now checks for preexisting tags
I've implemented basic template checking in Friendly's tag feature! At the moment it only checks for the same tag that it's adding (case insensitive) and excludes it if it finds its already on the page. For instance, if pov is already on a page, Friendly won't see it because npov is what it's checking for. I could implement checking for synonyms by simply programming a list of them in the script, but I don't know of a good way to find, for instance, all of the synonyms of pov. Do any of you? --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Um, I'd love to say yes, but I'd be lying. Perhaps there's a way to check what page a template redirects to? Npov and Pov both redirect to POV, so perhaps there's a way to check that... Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 20:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Special:Listredirects seems like it would help, if it had more features. It's not working right, though, first of all; as reported first on 17 May 2007, it only shows you the first 1000 redirects in alphabetical order.  If that problem were fixed and a feature were added so you could show all pages redirecting to " [input] ", I would be able to do it.  Maybe since I mentioned it here it'll get some admin attention. :-) --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 20:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Tag and welcome requests
Could you add internallinks to the list of tags and welcomeip to the list of welcomes? These are both fairly commonly used templates. Pyrospirit ( talk  ·  contribs ) 20:46, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * welcomeip is a redirect to welcome-anon, which is already under the "Anonymous user templates" section. As for internallinks, I'll surely add it...is it meant to go at the bottom of an article, like a stub tag?  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 20:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope, internallinks should be placed at the top. It's a more specific version of wikify, to be used for articles with proper layout/formatting but insufficient internal links. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 23:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There, I messed with it so it uses ambox. It adds the page to the same categories as wikify, so the only difference is the text of the box. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 23:40, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I changed Friendly to put it at the top, and did some more cleanup on the internallinks template. Should be good to go now.  --Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Friendly and Watching Pages
Until now, Friendly had a bit of a bug in the page watch section of the code. It didn't take into account if you had an article or user talk page watched already, and simply based its decision on the watchWelcomes and watchTaggedPages parameters. I had added some code yesterday that I thought would take into account whether you were already watching the page or not, but it didn't work right. If you've tagged any articles with this code, they were accidentally added to your watchlist, so you may want to clear it out. I've fixed the bug, so now Friendly will keep pages that you have watched already watched and if its not watched, base its decision on the watch parameters. Ctrl+F5 everyone! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Another Suggestion!
How about easy tagging of shared IPs? You click on the tab, you specify which template you want to use, then a prompt pops up, prompting you to enter the name? EoL talk 00:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and how about adding Orphan to the list of tags? EoL talk 00:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I like it! Wiki-style software! :D Really, though, I like both of these ideas. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 00:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Can nn go on the list of tags, too? It's the frequently one used (particularly for new pages) that seems most obviously missing. (Although it's not particularly friendly...) —  iride  scent
 * orphan and notability have been added to the list. I'd been meaning to add notability this week, since I've been using it quite a bit too, Iridescent. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 18:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Another Suggestion
How about adding In-universe to the collection of tags? --EoL talk 19:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's in there now. Ctrl+F5 to get the latest changes.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 20:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that's a useful one. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 21:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Update and
Can you add future and ? Thanks Thedjatclubrock :) (T/C) 23:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC).
 * Added, and since the list of tags was growing, I decided to group the tags into 3 different sections. Check it out!  Ctrl+F5.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Welcome template.
Can you please add Welcome-personal to the welcome list. Thanks Thedjatclubrock :) (T/C) 13:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's in there now. Sorry I missed it! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 21:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

New tag
I've added the advert tag to the list. Ctrl+F5 to get the latest changes! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Formatting suggestion
Could you put the "submit query" button for tagging and welcomes on both the top and the bottom of the interface instead of just the top? It'd reduce how much we need to scroll now that there's a vertical scroll bar. Pyrospirit ( talk  ·  contribs ) 16:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not...no, No, NO! Although if you wanted to see what it would be like if I obliged, you can hit Ctrl + F5 to get the latest version.  Beware of new welcome features too.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Another suggestion....is it possible to arrange the checkboxes in 3 (or 4) columns to reduce the length of the form? It would be sufficient to list the name of the template next to the checkbox and have a tooltip that displays the description on a mouseover event. → AA (talk) — 17:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Great suggestion...I'll have to ask AzaToth about that. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

New Welcome features
If you haven't refreshed yet, Ctrl+F5...there are new features in the "welcome" tab. For a while, the welcome function paid attention to the "vanarticle" URL parameter that is passed when you revert a page using Twinkle, but it did it behind the scenes, and it only applied it to four templates if it were present (Welcomevandal, Welcomenpov, Welcomeunsourced, and Welcome-anon-vandal if you must know).

Now there is a text input box that you can type an article name into which will be populated with the "vanarticle" URL parameter if present. Additional templates will also pay attention to this new input, such as Welcome, Wel, Welcome-anon, and Welcomeanon2. These four templates give the user you're welcoming a pat-on-the-back for contributing to the article that you enter. The previous four templates, of course, note the article that the user vandalized or otherwise made improper edits to. So, you probably shouldn't input an article that the user vandalized and then select Welcome...it wouldn't make sense, and would seem to be encouraging vandalism.

As a quick reference, I've marked all templates that support this input with an asterisk. This input is ignored for all other templates, which are not marked with asterisks. If you leave this input empty, it will simply be ignored. Remember, Ctrl+F5 to get the new changes and report all bugs that you find here. Thanks! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

One more??
How about ?? Thanks for the great tool! Toddst1 23:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Man, this is not Burger King; you can not "have it your way". But that is a good suggestion, so I've added it under the "Problem templates" section!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 13:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again for a great tool and active maintenance. Toddst1 (talk) 23:18, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Problem with Welcome templates
Maybe it is something in my settings, but for some of the welcome templates, it adds my username twice. For example, at the end of the message it will say "Rjd0060 Good luck, and have fun. --Rjd0060 (talk) 05:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)". See this welcome. - Rjd0060 (talk) 05:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's not a problem with Friendly so much as it is with W-screen, I believe, as there's a variable in that spot that sets it there. Let's see if people who know more about Friendly's code agree with me, but I think it's a template thing, not a Friendly thing.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 06:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've used the template without Friendly, and didn't have the problem. - Rjd0060 (talk) 06:42, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * SchuminWeb is right, that's just how W-screen is. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 18:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Really? I thought I never had that problem before Friendly, but I guess I was wrong.  Okay.  Thanks - Rjd0060 (talk) 19:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

As far as you know, does it do it with any other templates? Like W-basic? See here. - Rjd0060 (talk) 02:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Marking new pages as patrolled when tagging them
Could you add a feature to friendlytag that automatically marks a new page as patrolled when it's tagged using Friendly? It could be a checkbox similar to the "notify if possible" option in Twinkle's speedy deletion script. The checkbox should only be visible when tagging unpatrolled pages. It'd really help the new patrolling feature catch on if both you and AzaToth incorporated it into your scripts. (I've already filed a request for AzaToth to do this.) Thanks, Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 22:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, I'll implement the feature on Monday. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 22:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * At the moment it looks like the page patrol feature is kind-of up in the air (see Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/patrolled pages). At any rate, the way that the feature is implemented now would require changes in the library used by Friendly, monobook.js, which is under the control of the author of Twinkle.  I think for the time being that it is best to wait and let everything settle down first.  On a sidenote, when I tagged a new article with Friendly today, the "mark as patrolled" link went away after the page was reloaded.  In the logs it was not marked as patrolled, though, so I don't really know what's going on there.  This is one of the other reasons I think it's just best to wait a bit and see.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason the link doesn't appear after reloading is that the link only appears when the url has  in it. Special:Newpages links to unpatrolled pages with this parameter added, but when Twinkle or Friendly refreshes it, it doesn't have the rcid parameter.  Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 16:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing that up. That behavior seems a little hokey to me, because anytime you make any edit to a page, whether manually or with a JavaScript tool, the link disappears.  That doesn't seem very useful, because you'd have to mark the page as patrolled before you edited it in any way, like tagging or CSDing.  Stuff like that really makes me thing that we're going to be seeing some changes to this new patrolling feature, because at the moment it seems rather poorly implemented, to me anyway.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

More new Welcome features
Friendly now gives you the power to welcome new users directly from the user creation log page. When viewing the user creation log with Friendly installed, you should now see [ welcome ] links next to new user accounts. The link will only appear next to new accounts that do not yet have talk pages, since there would probably be quite a few duplicate welcomes otherwise. Friendly will also check the user's talk page to see if it is empty before posting your welcome, just in case someone was a bit quicker with the mouse than you. The best way to use this feature is to Ctrl+Click the [ welcome ] link so that your browser loads it into a new background tab. This way, you can just go right down the list and Friendly will take care of the rest. "What template will be used?", you might ask. Well, by default Welcome will be used, but there is a new configuration parameter that allows you to change this to your liking; just see the configuration section on Friendly's project page. As always, let me know if you find any bugs or have any ideas for improving the feature.  Ctrl+F5 everyone! Enjoy! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 20:49, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think this feature is a good idea. From what I've seen, it's standard practice to welcome a user only once they've made a constructive edit to an article; the welcome template itself says, "Thank you for your contributions," and it doesn't make sense to say this if they haven't even edited yet. Also, users are more likely to mistake it for an automated welcome message rather than an actual greeting from a real user if they receive it so quickly. The whole point of the welcome message is to notice their contribution(s) and give them a connection to a user who can help them in the future, and to make things feel more personalized. Just going down a list of new usernames and clicking all the links goes totally against the purpose of the template. Could you please remove this feature, or at least have it be disabled by default? Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 20:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to mention that an earlier proposal (can't remember the link) to have a bot that welcomed all new users was turned down for the same reason. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 21:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This feature has been disabled pending discussion. Welcome bots are indeed on the frequently denied bots page, but the reasoning behind it is that a bot welcoming new users is much less personal than being welcomed by a real user.  When using Friendly, the welcome is still coming from a real user.  As for whether or not the user has made contributions, some of the welcome templates don't even address it; for instance Welcom, W-short, W-screen, W-shout, and W-graphical, to name a few.  These welcome templates can provide a wealth of useful information for the Wikipedia newbie, whether or not they've made their first edit.  While I am convinced that having a bot perform this function is a bad thing, I can't say that I think it's bad for a distributed user base to do the same thing.  The feature will remain disabled until we can reach consensus one way or another, though.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 21:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I still have concerns about welcoming becoming too impersonal, but it is true that new users really should be getting this information whether they've started editing yet or not. Let's see what other people say about it. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 15:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If this is going to be kept, would it make more sense if someone who actually understands the Mediawiki software (there must be someone) set it up to welcome users on account-creation automatically? Personally I'm against it, but it it's to be kept may as well make it automatic if it's possible. —  iride  scent  15:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That won't happen for the reasons that are listed on the frequently denied bots page under the "Welcome bot" section. I do agree with those reasons, but this feature of Friendly, to me, seems different somehow.  I'm going to creating an AFD style discussion thread below and we'll see what the consensus about whether or not Friendly should have the quick welcome feature.  Everyone is welcome to put their two cents in, but please keep it short and leave longer messages here.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion
I think it would be usefull if we added this plot to friendly. Ridernyc (talk) 14:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * plot has been added, along with some new features that I'll discuss in a few minutes. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:43, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion :p
Ok, this is a tough one. Here's my idea. When a user picks something like 4 or more tags for a article, Friendly automatically uses articleissues instead. Of course, the user can change this number to their liking or turn this feature off completely with a check box. Friendly would also take note of the templates already in use. These would be included in the number also. If say the default is 4 and there's three temps. already on the page, then when the user adds one (or more), Friendly converts the original three plus the new one(s) to articleissues (while retaining/adding the dates.) I know this sounds like a ton of work, so I'll understand if you don't want to do it :) I just thought I'd share my idea with you. And thanks again for this awesome tool. Cheers, Rocket000 (talk) 21:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Great idea; I'll look into it on Monday. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 22:07, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I started the development for this feature earlier today. Hopefully it should be done tomorrow.  If AzaToth decides to implement a column feature for the QuickForm (the menu that comes up when you click on the tabs), this will prove to be an extremely valuable feature.  Thanks for the great idea, Rocket000!  Keep 'em coming!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 02:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This feature is now fully implemented along with a new configuration parameter. By default, Friendly will group all tags supported by articleissues into a single articleissues tag, rather than the individual tags.  Tags that are not supported by articleissues are added as normal.  Ctrl+F5 everyone!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow! Thanks very much! It works beautifully. I'll be sure to let you know if I get any more ideas, but based on the speed you implement these things, I can barely keep up! Rocket000 (talk) 09:19, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Friendly "Quick Welcome" Feature Discussion/Poll
This section is to determine if Friendly should have a "Quick Welcome" feature. "Quick Welcome" is the ability to welcome new users who have blank talk pages directly from the user creation log page with a Twinkle-style [ welcome ] link next to the new user account. Some users have expressed concern that this functionality is too similar to the frequently denied "Welcome Bot", meaning the welcomes are too impersonal. Please insert your comments below, in an AFD style list. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Support : Welcomes can give new users a lot of information, and as long as a template that doesn't thank the user for their (likely nonexistent) contributions, I think it's a good idea. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Neutral: I have no idea why I put support originally, because I'm really neutral about it, even though it took me like an hour to write the XPath statements to insert the links. While welcoming is a good idea, I have no opinion about whether this is a good way to do it or not.    Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 22:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I originally brought up the concerns about this feature because it makes welcoming too impersonal and because it was similar to the welcome bot idea. The thing about scripts such as Twinkle and Friendly is that they automate processes to such a degree that editing with them is almost "botlike". This is not usually a bad thing; being able to revert, warn, report, and tag with human discretion but near-bot speed is a great help to Wikipedia. I fully support the welcoming feature in Friendly, because it encourages editors to make new editors feel welcome, while avoiding the inconvenience of manually placing the template. However, adding a feature that allows editors to welcome new users in mass numbers as soon as they create their account makes a welcome message only marginally more personal than a bot welcome, thus going against the entire purpose of a welcome message: to give new users not only information, which the introduction already gives, but to provide them with a connection to an experienced editor who they can later communicate with. If we automate welcoming, as this feature would do, a welcome is no more personal than a standard warning or Twinkle-generated CSD message. Welcoming needs to stay more personalized. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 16:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose for reasons outlined above. Many (perhaps most) new accounts are never used, or used for vandalism. Welcoming after the first few edits allows you to use appropriate welcome templates (welcomevandal for example). As I say above, I think if we are going to welcome accounts with no history than it should be automated. The anti arguments in the discussion mentioned above - which I didn't know existed - seem to apply just as well to botlike as to bot edits in this case, since (aside from obvious vandal usernames) there's no criteria to judge an account's validity/purpose. —  iride  scent  17:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I might find this useful on the very, very rare occasions when I convince someone to sign up for an account and I go to the new user log immediately. It's just as easy to get the account name from them after they create it and welcome using the usual tab. Sorry about the XPath time, Ioeth, but I agree with all the points made above, as well. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 21:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, it's no biggie. Most of that time was spent learning XPath, since I've never used it before, which I probably should have done by now anyway, so it's not like it's wasted!  Besides, who knows, maybe I'll use my new knowledge to create a blind article tagging feature from Special:Newpages, mwahahahaha!  Anyway, these arguments are starting to convince me too, so unless someone has a brilliant support comment posted here soon, I'm probably going to go ahead and fully remove the feature.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 21:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Who knows? Perhaps you can augment the links on diff pages to include a welcome link after the editor info on the current diff, like Twinkle does for rollbacks! So an edit by me (if I were new) would show up as: Voyagerfan5761 (Talk) (Contribs) [ Welcome ] Ha! :) As for the Newpages idea, it could be useful, at least in conjunction with Popups, but the implementation would require some thought. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 21:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC) PS: Hope you don't mind my formatting your comment to be more AFD-ish. Who thought of using bullets? Multi-paragraph comments are all but impossible...
 * No problem about the reformatting...I do it all the time. As for the blind tagging feature, there is no way I'd implement that; tagging an article before you've seen it is just silly.  But I was just kidding about it anyway.  The idea about putting a welcome link in history pages or the like but only on users with a blank talk page sounds pretty good.  Now that I'm an XPath master it shouldn't be too bad to implement either.  I'm going to start a thread about it to separate it from this one.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 21:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Multi-paragraph comments aren't that hard; just use
 * Well, I do sometimes, but it looks odd, and the generated markup is definitely not semantic. Oh well, appearances are everything in this case. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 23:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Result: This feature has been removed from Friendly in favor of the "Welcome from Diff" feature. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Additional config suggestion for diff-page welcome
Since I seem to be on a roll here ( :D ), I was wondering if you could add a config option to either quick-welcome with the configured template or call  and allow the template to be chosen from the usual dialog. It should be as easy as a Boolean config value and an if-else statement (like ).

I'd find this feature quite useful. If anyone disagrees, please, "talk" below. This is just my latest idea. It's actually what I was thinking when I made the suggestion. Maybe I can take a look at Friendly's code and come up with a patch myself; who knows? Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 03:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I think I figured out where to put it. Now to copy the Friendly code to my own userspace, mess with it, and conduct tests. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 03:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Shows how much I know about JavaScript. I just couldn't figure out how to make it work. That code, to me, is a jungle, a mess. I'll leave this to the expert, I think. Sorry, Ioeth; I was hoping I could pull this one off myself. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 03:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well go ahead and Ctrl+F5, because I just finished it. There's a new config parameter called "quickWelcomeMode" that you can set to "semiauto" to get this functionality.  Setting it to "auto" will do the original style using the quickWelcomeTemplate.  I'm about to post the details of the new config parameter on the doc page.  Let me know if you come up with anything else! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 03:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * At the risk of having my hands cut off for using an outdated term, "Coolio!" :P Thanks! Off to Ctrl+F5 and configure right now! Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 05:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Friendly "Welcome from History" Feature Discussion
This thread is to discuss an enhancement suggested by Tuvok in the previous thread. The suggestion is that [ welcome ] links could be placed in history pages and diff views for users that have a blank talk page (i.e., a red Talk link). What does everyone think...is this something that Friendly should allow? Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 21:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I hadn't actually thought of history pages, but users with redlinked talk pages could have the links after their user info on the diff page (if their edit is the one on the right). As an example:

[ rollback (AGF) ] || [ rollback ] || [ rollback (VANDAL) ]

 Current revision (15:44, November 20, 2007) ( edit ) ( undo )

Ioeth ( Talk | contribs ) [ Welcome ]


 * I included the Twinkle links to very clearly illustrate which side I'm talking about. The link would of course open a new window/tab (browser configuration-dependent).


 * On a side note, I don't think using the color SteelBlue would be the best idea; Twinkle links already use it. I chose Goldenrod for the demo mockup, but it isn't necessarily my first choice; I just came up with it on the fly because it was different from everything else. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 22:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I like it. Let's see what some other folks think, and maybe I can implement it over the holiday.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 22:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Very nice. This would encourage users to welcome people who have demonstrated interest by contributing, which is what I was talking about when I opposed the other welcome feature. This welcome feature is an excellent idea. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 22:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you both like the idea. You are right, Pyrospirit, that welcoming users who haven't made any contributions, or have made edits that are vandalism, doesn't make any sense with an automated quick-welcome link.


 * Just in case it isn't clear, this Welcome link should call friendlywelcome.callback with the username of the editor (so in the example above, ). Unfortunately, the username doesn't appear to have an ID in and of itself, but   should reference it. Provided the markup for the diff page doesn't change, that is. I'm sure you have a wizardly skill for getting this info that's much simpler, but I thought I'd just mention this anyway. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 03:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I should just be able to modify the code I wrote for the new user log page to work for diff pages! Good thing I learned XPath the other day after all!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Allllrightay, this feature is implemented. All I had to do was change the XPath and the condition to detect a diff page.  Everyone who CTRL + F5s will be able to welcome users with a blank talk page directly from a diff.  The "quickWelcomeTemplate" parameter now applies to this feature and is set to "Welcome" by default.  Let me know if you find any bugs or have any ideas for improvement!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice work, I like it. I wounder weather it would be better if users could either specify which template to use, or opens the page from which you chose the welcome from? Just an idea!  Tiddly - Tom  19:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a configuration variable called "quickWelcomeTemplate" that you can use to specify the template you want to use for this type of welcome. I don't think opening the page and letting the user choose a template is worth doing though, since the user could just click "Talk" and then click the "Welcome" tab.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 20:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Then again, Tuvok requested it too, and it wound up being really easy to implement. See the thread below for details.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 05:54, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ioeth :)  Tiddly - Tom  18:21, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Live Clock?
You've been toying with other new features, I see. I like the clock idea! Now if only I could change:

to

Hint: I moved a parenthesis, near the end. :) This code is simple enough for me to handle... Now all I have to do is figure out why it just showed up in my  bar. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 06:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Heh, that's actually a script I found in AzaToth's monobook.js. I liked the idea since I can never seem to remember the correct UTC time, but I wanted to put UTC after the clock, so I copied it into my userspace.  Turns out that the parenthesis issue that you noticed there causes a bug I've been experiencing since I added the little snippet.  Thanks for the fix!  I'm not planning on integrating this into Friendly, though, especially since I don't even know who the original author is.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 06:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I'll probably add this to my monobook. It looks useful, especially since it's a link to action=purge. I had a script that added a purge tab for a while, but had to get rid of it because it took up too much room. This is a nice, dual-purpose alternative. I'm actually thankful for your little goof. :) Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 06:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * User:Voice of All/UTCclock.js anyone? I'm pretty sure this is where it comes from; I've had this script installed for a while. Since a number of people have it installed separately, I wouldn't recommend putting it into Friendly, though. It really doesn't fit with the whole welcoming/tagging theme anyway. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 02:04, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Add User-hosted welcome templates?
I've been using friendly for a while, but I think what would be best if it had a database that updates itself with User-created and user-hosted welcome templates. - Go od  sh oped 05:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, since Friendly is just a JavaScript tool there's no "database" that it can connect to. The best I can do is to store a list of templates in the script.  I've thought about adding support for a user-defined list, but Friendly also has to keep track of whether the template has a heading, signature, other parameters, etc.  I can't really think of a good way to implement it because the user would have to specify all of those settings as well.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Un-tag as well as tag?
I just got the craziest idea for a feature in Friendly. What if the checkboxes in the tagging dialog could be automatically checked if the article is already tagged with those templates? That would make it easier to not select duplicates (though Friendly already does detect them). Given that capability, what if removing the check from an already-present template removed it from the article? We have this wonderful capability to apply tags, but removing tags is also a necessary feature, since a lot of editors improve articles to the point of no longer needing tags without actually taking them off. What's the feasibility of implementing this? It should be reasonably simple to pull off with regex matching. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 22:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Very good idea, one that I've often thought about attacking before. The biggest barrier to accomplishing this is the fact that a template, for instance pov, can have redirects that point to it, such as npov; essentially, template synonyms.  It's difficult to isolate and identify all of the synonyms of a particular template (since Special:Listredirects is worthless), and without knowing them, there is no way to guarantee the effectiveness of a regex check for the template.  Given this, it seems to be better at the moment to leave checking/removal of templates up to the user.  I may try to implement it in the future, but it will certainly have caveats related to template redirects.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That did come to mind, actually. I'm not sure how to go about filtering for those, besides creating another property on each template within the script's lists to keep track of template synonyms. Perhaps a  property to go along with   and  ? It could be a comma-separated list, split into an array when the script is run, and added to the regex checking list. Hmm... Sound doable? Or am I way off? Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 15:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's definitely how I would accomplish synonym tracking technically. Actually, I just realized that populating these lists wouldn't be that hard either.  I was thinking I would need to use Special:Listredirects, but the page doesn't have the features I would need to limit it to a particular page.  Instead, I can use "What links here" and limit it to the template namespace to identify the valid redirects (like this, for instace).  This feature will take some time to implement, and I'll probably do it in steps, but I'll add it to the worklist.  Thanks!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You were seriously thinking of using Listredirects? Ooh... I shudder at that thought. Whatlinkshere is much more practical. There's always the question of keeping the synonyms updated, of course, but perhaps once I make admin (maybe next year?) I can help with it. Glad to hear you'll be working on it. No rush. :) Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 18:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

future variants
The default future template addresses future events quite well, but there are other versions (like future album, future software, etc.) that sound a lot better on those kinds of articles. Would it be possible to implement a collapsed section of the tagging interface that allows selection of which future tag to use? The current checkbox would just be changed so it pops open the section onclick, with a radio button list in the section itself, an entry for each variant. Sound good? Hope I'm not bugging you too much, Ioeth; I just keep getting ideas. :) Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 14:51, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I should be able to insert a selection box into the list that will allow you to select different types of templates like this. I'll work on the feature this week.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Neat; thanks! Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 15:46, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Another template suggestion!
Can you add Verylong to the list of templates? I would appreciate it if you would. --EoL talk 01:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we should start by adding it to the top of the template list... rendered. :P Just kidding; the constant additions are nice, and it reduces my need to type. I just couldn't resist the joke. Another good idea! Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 02:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Would it be possible to get Non-free added to the list of templates? With the new movie to better comply with fair use, I suspect I'm not the only one who would find it useful :) AnmaFinotera 00:01, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * These two tags have now been added to the list. Ctrl+F5, everyone!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:05, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Confusing
No, not the tool. The template, confusing. I think it would be a good addition to the tagging feature. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 07:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You're confusing! I'm sorry, that was petty of me.  What's not petty, though, is that confusing is now in Friendly!  Ctrl+F5 to get the latest version!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

article tagging suggestions
I'm so excited to find out about Friendly, especially its article tagging options. May I suggest some additional common tags that might be useful to include in the list?


 * tone
 * notability subcategories
 * autobiography
 * essay-like


 * currentevent


 * hoax
 * COI

Thanks for creating a great and much-needed extension! ~ Eliz 81 (C)  21:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * expert
 * unencyclopedic
 * I'll work on adding these templates into Friendly this week. Thanks for the suggestion!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * These tags have now all been added. Ctrl+F5 to get the new ones!  Let me know if you spot any problems.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * notability, not to mention future subcategories have now been added! Simply tick the same checkbox that you used to and the respective label will turn into a drop-box for easy selection of subcategories.  Ctrl+F5  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 22:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Redirect templates
It would be cool if the templates in the category Redirect templates could be included in this (perhaps as an optional feature, as I doubt everyone would want all those templates clogging up the list). It would be very handy, as doing it manually is a very slow process. --Closedmouth (talk) 03:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This should be pretty easy to do, actually. To view a redirect page, there has to be a URL parameter called "redirect" that's set to "no".  I can check for this parameter in Friendly and display a different list if that parameter is present and set to no.  I'll work on this functionality later in the week.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Excellent, sounds good. No rush, mind you; it's not exactly urgent :P --Closedmouth (talk) 13:25, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This feature is now implemented! If you're on a redirect page (any redirect page, not just in the article space), the "tag" tab will show up and allow you to apply common redirect templates.  I should note that at the moment I am not sure if I will eve be able to automatically reload back to the redirect page, as I can't seem to get the "redirect=no" URL parameter in there correctly.  So, don't be surprised when you tag a redirect and it reloads you to follow the redirect.  Just the way it is right now!  Anyway, Ctrl+F5 everyone!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 22:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. I wouldn't worry about the reload thing, it was just a nit-pick for my own convenience, it's not like you need to go back and check whether the tagging worked, heh. (And even if you did for some reason, it's just a click away). Anyway, I applaud your efforts! --Closedmouth (talk) 04:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Stubs
It could be as bigger or smaller task as you liked, in for you don't have to add them all, but perhaps start just with stub, then build up with some sort of drop down list system. Just an idea :)  Tiddly - Tom  19:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I'm hoping to do once I get the drop-down system for notability templates worked out! Great idea!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that I've got the drop-down functionality working for notability and future, I'll begin working on the stub tagging feature. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 22:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Just tagged a page for notability and noticed the drop down system - nice :)  Tiddly - Tom  11:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

notability and future subcategories!
I have added the drop-down box functionality for notability and future subcategories into Friendly! You won't see it on the surface when you press "tag", but there's more than meets the eye. Tick the checkbox next to notability and the label turns into a drop-down box that allows you to select the main tag or any of the subcategories. The same is now true for the future as well! I think this is exactly the sort of functionality I needed to develop so I can re-develop stub tagging functionality. Ctrl+F5 everyone, and enjoy! Report any bugs, please! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 22:15, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know how you find the time to develop all these features, but this sounds great! I'll get started using them immediately, soon's I find an article that needs one of them. ;) Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 22:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Now that I think about it, Friendly would be remiss if it didn't incorporate subtemplates for currentevent, don't you think? :) It'll give you another means to exercise the skills developed for these two tags, at least. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 22:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Good idea, what are the currentevent subtemplates, though? Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 23:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I probably haven't found all of them, but I found these in Category:Temporal templates:


 * Current bill
 * Current court case
 * Current PW
 * Current antics
 * Current product
 * Current fiction
 * Current game
 * Current person
 * Current spaceflight
 * Current sport
 * Current sport delay
 * Current sport-related
 * Current sport-related2
 * Current-related
 * CurrentSingles


 * I've done my best to exclude section-only templates. I don't think any slipped through (I was checking with Popups, after all). It may or may not be necessary for all of these templates to be included. Current antics strikes me as one. I figured I'd include it anyway, though. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 04:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The above current subcategories and more have been added, along with a reorganization of the future subcategories for easier finding. Ctrl + F5 everyone!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ioeth (talk • contribs) 16:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

How about another template?
Could you add refimprove, please? --EoL talk 03:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * refimprove is already available :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Easy tagging of Shared IP addresses
Thanks to EoL's suggestion, Friendly now has a new tab! When you're on a user talk page of an IP address, a new "shared ip" tab will be visible next to "welcome". The functions available from clicking this tab will allow you to easily insert a template from Category:Shared IP header templates onto the talk page. Enjoy, and report any bugs here! As always, Ctrl+F5 to get the newest features. Cheers! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:13, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Take a bow! :) --EoL talk 02:34, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good!  Marlith  T / C  05:15, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Great feature, but is there a way to disable it? I never tag pages like this, and it creates a lot of screen-stretch on IP talk pages for me, which I visit a lot. --Closedmouth (talk) 07:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You can install the Friendly components individually. It's very easy to do and details are available at WP:FRIENDLY. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Tab text downsizing
On a sidenote, I've been considering downsizing the text in the "welcome" and "shared ip" tabs. I was thinking of replacing them with "wel" and "sip", respectively. What is the consensus on a change like this? Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 18:22, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally, I have no problem with the current bar width. I can almost always see all of my tabs, though I admit I have a couple style customizations (see User:Voyagerfan5761/monobook.css). If you want to reduce the text length, though, what about "say hi" and "tag ip"? They're not quite as short as your ideas, but I think they're more easily identified to new users. &lt;promotion type="shameless"&gt;Users who want to rename their tabs can always use my object-based tab- link-renaming script. Since Friendly gives every tab a unique ID, it's easy to mess with the tab text without modifying the original script.&lt;/promotion&gt; Perhaps I'll list each tab's ID on the content page under the respective tab sections... Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 19:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * True dat. I think I'll just leave them the way they are, then.  Thanks for fixing the category!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem! I was wondering if you actually meant to add this page to the shared IP templates list...


 * Actually, this has been good for me. I've renamed my tab- link-fixer, and added to its documentation comments. Of course, I forgot to add the one thing I was planning to — an explanation of each line's syntax — but as it says, they're pretty self-explanatory. I will disclose, though, that I do no renaming of Friendly's tabs, or Twinkle's for that matter. In fact, I have yet to expand my script to rename anything that's not present already when MediaWiki serves the page (except the "format" tab on edit pages, which is another script I have, and which might soon be dumped). I just might spend a few minutes improving my script... Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 19:51, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Images
I just added some screenshots. Anyone care to take a look at the licensing to make sure its right? --EoL talk 15:17, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Seems to look okay. SchuminWeb (Talk) 16:51, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for doing those, EoL...they're great! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 01:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Organization request
I have a very minor request regarding the organization of Friendly. Could you replace User:Ioeth/friendly.js with and create a page at User:Ioeth/friendlyscripts.js with

Then, you would place all future Friendly modules in friendlyscripts.js. This would allow people with Twinkle already installed to install all of Friendly without installing morebits.js twice. Currently, I've just had each part of Friendly installed individually, but this means I have to manually add new modules. Thanks, Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 20:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Great idea, Pyrospirit! Wish I'd thought of that... :D Seconded. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 23:08, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Have you checked out my monobook.js file? I have friendly.js and twinkle.js installed, so there's a morebits.js duplication, but it doesn't affect anything.  I've looked into it and Wikipedia's function to import scripts, (importScript), has a check to make sure that a script isn't imported twice accidentally.  So, there's no real technical reason to change the organization since it's impossible for morebits.js to get imported twice! Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 01:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh ok. Wasn't aware of that. Thanks, I'll adjust my monobook.js accordingly. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 01:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion
I'm not quite sure about this one, but maybe you could add Hoax to the list of tags? --EoL talk 21:24, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hoax is already in there under "Problem templates". :-) Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 01:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Barnstars
Can we have an award/Barnstar function? Thanks, Thedjatclubrock :) (T/C) 00:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC).


 * I'm not sure this is needed. If you're going to give someone a barnstar, you should take the time to think it out, find the right one, and post it manually, rather than just giving them out trivially using some JavaScript. I'm all for giving out barnstars, but not to the point of making it semi-automated with Friendly. Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 01:17, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * A list would be easier than the long info page. How about Smile(s) smile? Thedjatclubrock :) (T/C) 04:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC).
 * I would agree that Friendly is not the place for barnstars, for the reasons that Pyrospirit pointed out. Barnstars are very special things, and should not be handed out lightly, and a javascript function would make it a little too easy to cover the hills with a million barnstars.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Imagine if people suddenly could give out barnstars at a single click. We'd all be buried in them. Awards subpages would have to have archives. As others have pointed out, barnstars should not be made into a "one-click" thing, simply because they require a little more thought than tagging a page with wikify or future. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 06:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Not working for me
I've tried both the individual installation and just importing the script. Either way, the tabs aren't appearing for me. I do use Firefox, so I can't figure out what's wrong. Any suggestions on things to try? Corvus coronoides talk 00:37, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you cleared your cache? --Closedmouth (talk) 02:37, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I took a look at your monobook.js file and it looks good. What browser are you using?  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 14:22, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm using firefox, and yes, I have cleared my cache, rebooted my computer, etc. I don't understand why it's not working.  Any ideas to try? Corvus coronoides talk  22:44, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I did a little debugging on your monobook.js this morning and here's what I found. The scripts do appear to be working properly.  However, since you are importing friendly.js after twinkle.js, the Friendly tabs show up waaaay on the right of the tab bar, so it may be that you just can't see them.  If you want to clear a little bit of space, you can import my fixtabs.js script, which makes some of the text on Wikipedia's default tabs shorter.  That might clear some room for you.  Alternatively, you can import friendly.js before twinkle.js and the Friendly tabs will show up closer to the middle of the tab bar.  In that case, without fixtabs.js, it's likely that some of Twinkle's tabs will be off of the screen to the right, though.  Let me know if you take a look at it what you see.  If you want me to put fixtabs.js in your monobook, drop a message on my talk page and I'll set it up for you.  Cheers!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't know what you did, but it's working now, so thank you! Corvus coronoides talk 23:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Large, yet very useful expansion
Have you ever thought of adding an WikiProject assessment capabiity to this? Sure, it'd be very hard. Users would need to be able to select which templates they want to use, and then there'd be the small problem of parameters &mdash; a sort've sub menu that opens when you select a template might be good. If it's too hard, well, it is and if you can do it, great!--Phoenix-wiki talk · contribs 20:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * In theory, there's an implementation of this, standalone, at User:Outriggr/metadatatest.js (discussion). It's no longer maintained, but perhaps it could be a building block for you, Ioeth. Tuvok[T@lk/Improve me] 20:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've been using that for a while, but that's hard to work with and figure out for those new to js. This would be better--Phoenix-wiki talk · contribs 12:57, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hm, I don't know a whole lot (or really anything at all) about article assessment. I took a look at WikiProject Council/Guide/WikiProject, but I still don't think I have a tight enough grasp on the mechanisms that I could write a script for it.  If anybody has the understanding and time, hop on an IM client and chat at me about it.  Thanks!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 15:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Wel basically WikiProjects rate on the quality of an article with stub, start, B, GA, A and FA classes, so you'd have  on a good article etc. Many wikiprojects also rate on importance with low, mid, high and top importance, so you'd have   on some unimportant stub of an article. That's about the limit of what you can do, though some large wikiprojects also have work groups to work on specific areas within their scope, eg. WikiProject Video games has a Grand theft auto and a Command & Conquer task force. I doubt the task forces could be included, so we'll just forget about those.--Phoenix-wiki talk · contribs 13:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, that's interesting. I'll start looking into what I could set up for WikiProjects now.  Thanks for the info!  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:01, 24 December 2007 (UTC)