Wikipedia talk:Twinkle/Archive Friendly 4

Vector skin
I'm not sure whether the problem is with the Vector skin or Friendly itself, but I've noticed that when I have Friendly on in the Vector skin, the "Edit" tab on pages breaks (the tab disappears and "Edit" appears above the tab strip). Calvin 1998 (t·c) 07:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, the more pertinent problem is that the entire script doesn't work in Vector because of the changed div IDs. But if it breaks, it should break nicely. Calvin 1998 (t·c) 07:33, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Should work now, only issue remaining is with tabs renaming. Amalthea  11:50, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's fixed, too, so Friendly should now be compatible with Vector skin. Cheers, Amalthea  12:23, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice, thanks! Calvin 1998 (t·c) 19:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Tagging errors
These log entries depict a page that was speedied (A7). When I come across articles that make a claim of credibility without references, like this one, I generally use Twinkle to tag it for CSD then use Friendly to tag it with BLPunreferenced. I decided to reverse the order of the tags this time, but the page was deleted after I started tagging. Friendly recreated the page, which is the second deletion for today (the one without a deletion summary).

Long story short, Friendly should probably detect nonexistent pages and stop editing, much in the same way Twinkle does. &mdash; Ledgend  Gamer  05:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

New W-all
I would suggest W-all, which is a new template, to be added to the list of welcome templates under the wel tab under that heading Welcoming committe templates. The template has to be substituted. Signature included. Link to page under that parameter "page." See the doc for more info. -- Sri niv  as  06:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing against the template, but what makes the content of this template any different than the regular welcome template? Sure, the design is pretty, but what does it do above and beyond what we've already got in there?  It's mainly a rehashing of welcome with a pretty border.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 07:28, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It is a combination of 21 different templates and is not just a variation of welcome! Just see the doc and you'll come to know. -- Sri niv  as  14:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I see. Seems overly complicated for a welcome template.  I don't see it being of much use in the standard version of Friendly, though, since it doesn't really offer anything new beyond what we already have.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay! -- Sri niv  as  09:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

customWelcomeList doesn't respect template parameters?
It seems that trying to pass parameters to customWelcomeList doesn't work for some reason - see this for example, where the code inserted should have been  (before I remembered to subst the #if), and this, where the code inserted should have been   (after I remembered to subst the #if). What should be happening is a header should be getting automatically inserted if header is set to any value; obviously, though, this isn't happening (see also the configuration). Any thoughts? 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 17:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it can't work like : you need to add the template parameters to the "value" of the configuration, like


 * The template name & parameters isn't pulled from the description. Amalthea  10:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * All right, thanks. Collectonian has already fixed her configuration, and this should be noted (more clearly?) in the documentation. I'll see to it later if I can remember, I'm short on time today. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 21:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Friendly + Opera 10.00 beta
Hello. Just reporting. I use Opera 10.00 Beta and Friendly, but when I use the welcome or warning options of Friendly, I am unable to scroll down in the pop up (to select another template below of which I see.) Is this a Friendly known bug? Or should I reconfigure Opera? So far it is the only issue I've had with the browser. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RUL3R (talk • contribs) 03:37, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not that I know of, but I can reproduce it with a 9.* version. Funny that no one noticed this before. Can you still scroll down using your mouse wheel? Amalthea  10:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Saldly, I'm on a laptop, so no scroll whell for me (until I get a mouse, I hate touchpads.) As for nobody noticing before, must be a side-effect of Opera's low market share... RUL3R *flaming 16:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:Welc-anon parameters mis-numbered?
Please see the discussion regarding Welc-anon at Template_talk:Welc-anon. Thanks. --Uncia (talk) 21:34, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

idsToRename does not work when editing .js pages
I have, which works as expected. However, if I go to any page, hit edit, and then hit Preview, the tabs are renamed by Friendly, whether  is set or not! Please fix this, thanks.  Gary King ( talk ) 18:29, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, works for me. You're probably seeing a race condition since you're loading your Friendly configuration asynchronously through an importScript command: If that import finishes after the  function is run (i.e. friendlytabs is executed), then your configuration of Friendly Tabs won't have any effect. Two ways around this: Either move the friendly config into your monobook.js, which is usually enough (I don't know enough about the internals of the javascript engines of all browsers to say for sure), or load Friendly manually (not via Gadget) after the configuration has been set, i.e. by a   below your configuration in User:Gary King/config.js. The latter method is 100% certain to work.  Amalthea  14:16, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks; I thought it was a bug in Friendly, and since people don't usually edit .js pages AND have Friendly tabs disabled, no one noticed the problem. But what you explained also makes sense. This seems to have fixed the problem for me.  Gary King ( talk ) 15:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for Article issues
I have made a suggestion for changes to this template. Link to discussion. Iceblock (talk) 15:10, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The two together make "Friendly" look more like "Drive-By". I don't like your tool at all. It makes it easy for people to trash an article in vague ways instead of making real edits for improvement. ClaudeReigns (talk) 10:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Tagging articles is not "trashing" them. I tag dozens of articles every day and it leads to substantial improvements in the quality of the encyclopedia. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Your comment is a peacock, and uncited. Furthermore, you are a living person and therefore your comment should be deleted immediately :D Fortunately, your post is short enough that everyone can see exactly what peacock term and unsubstantiated claim I am referring to. With a longer post, we might not get a clear idea of how I view your post as completely unhelpful and self-serving. That's why articles have talk pages, so specific improvements can be discussed. Imagine if I had said that and someone had put a template on my user page that said "this user is a dick and self-serving braggart who doesn't back up anything he says". While probably appropriate, it wouldn't contribute to my civility nor would it inform me specifically how I'd been a wiener in the least. And of course, it'd be against policy for someone else to edit my userpage, so the example is a bit of an over-reach, but I hope you get understand how several broad criticisms can lose their impact without specificity.


 * However, if you would be so kind as to create a "user issues" template, I'd be happy to use it unsparingly on my own userpage. The current solution for the "article issues" template, however, is simply to revert if one disagrees, forcing the tagging editor to point out specific examples of the problems in the article and make a more real contribution. Of course, this can lead to edit warring. Which is why the attitude at Wikipedia:Template messages is reflected in "if an article has many problems, please consider tagging only the most important problems. A very lengthy list is often less helpful than a shorter one. Remember that tags are not intended as a badge of shame." But evidently there is now two minds within the same page and so: I need to go place a clean up template at Wikipedia:Template messages/Cleanup. Fascinating. ClaudeReigns (talk) 11:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I can't quite work out whether that entire comment was meant as an elaborate meta-commentary on the subject of tagging or whether you meant it, but from my point of view people who summarily remove tags from articles just because they dislike articles being tagged are a pain in the neck as they disrupt my workflow. In the time it takes me to adequately explain an issue I could often have fixed it. If I'm on an article's talk page to elaborate on why I tagged an article, that indicates that I'm on my second pass through that page and would ordinarily be looking to resolve the tags I'd placed on the previous pass. The discussion step simply distracts me from that. This is how I go about cleaning the thousands of articles on my watchlist and I think it benefits the project far more than a slight reduction in the gross number of tags on Wikipedia at a given time would. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem some people will have with the process is that it's not collaborative. Even a one word explanation or a timetable for engagement is preferable. Some of these guys even use their second pass to be snarky about how you set up the talk page when all you're trying to do is be welcoming and figure out what their beef is. Sometimes a solitary workflow will create friction with the flow of consensus and that is, in a way, a good thing. But it is consensus that matters most. ClaudeReigns (talk) 16:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

"Submit query"
This has bugged me for a while - any chance of renaming the "submit query" button in the tagging interface? It's a rather technical term, and doesn't really read properly. How about just "add tags"? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Too many welcome templates: turn off some, add configuration, or something?
If I understand correctly, it isn't possible to turn off welcome templates, only to add custom ones. It'd be really nice if they would all fit on a "screen", and a lot of them seem redundant or nearly so.

Thoughts? tedder (talk) 21:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Feature request
Support for stub tagging and all cleanup-tags such as cleanup-jargon. -- Mr Stalker  ( talk ) 12:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Another Feature Request
Please add some method of adding and  templates to user talk pages. --Tckma (talk) 14:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * is already part of Twinkle. Amalthea  19:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Feature request
I'd like it if the tag notenglish was added. Thanks! &eta;oian  &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  00:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Already in there. Pretty handy, too.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Really? I must have overlooked it, stupid me. &eta;oian   &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  01:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

article issues grouping doesn't set the article=yes flag
See this diff. Friendly added three new tags, and helpfully combined them into one article issues template. However, it did not set |article=yes on the template, so it reads "this article or section" rather than "this article". Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ . Amalthea  16:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Beta compatibility
Is there any way to get Friendly (specifically the article tagging feature) to work with the new Wikipedia beta and if not is it being worked on?--Marcus Brute (talk) 04:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Vector. Last time I checked Friendly was working with Vector, but you need to load it either via Gadget or via vector.js. Amalthea  06:36, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

intro-toolong and intro-tooshort tags should be mutually exclusive
Just a bit of foolproofing. Possible? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:12, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Does this happen a lot by accident? Isn't it just as likely to mistag with something else? If there isn't a specific reason why this combination is used a lot by accident, it's probably not worth the added code complexity, unless we try to verify all other tags as well. Amalthea  11:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Change defaults
According to the page about Friendly, the default is to mark edits which add tags to pages as minor. But, according to Help:Minor_edit, edits adding templates should not be marked as minor. I recommend a change of defaults to accord with the info on that page. Æk (talk) 05:56, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Either that, or the help page should be changed to reflect current practice. Amalthea  11:28, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Deprecation of "Future" templates
Per the discussion at Centralized discussion/Deprecating "Future" templates, a consensus has developed to deprecate all "Future" templates. Therefore, it would be great if the option to add these templates to articles could be removed from this tool. :) --Conti|✉ 09:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅, thanks for the notice. Amalthea  11:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Conti|✉ 12:13, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

subst-checking on welcome-anon
welcome-anon now implements subst-checking (i.e. it produces ugly red text if anyone transcludes it instead of substing it). This shouldn't be a problem for Friendly, but if Friendly suddenly breaks and stops substing properly, there will be ugly red text left behind. Just thought you might like to know. -- Thin boy  00  @262, i.e. 05:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting us know. Friendly substs them all, so it is indeed unlikely to break anything. :) Cheers, Amalthea  08:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

onesource
Could you add onesource to the "tag" list? Thanks. Logan | Talk 21:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Seconded on that. Place under "problem templates".  SchuminWeb (Talk) 03:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Amalthea  08:20, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Logan | Talk 23:13, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Feature request: TAG page - Automatic welcome
Is it possible to update the program friendly so that once you tag an article for maintenance (and I will use the e.g. of wikify,unref,uncat) to then send of an automatic welcome message to the user requesting that they wikify, add a ref and category to the page (if they have not been welcomed before that is, if they have then just send them the message to wikify, add a ref and category)? I go through hundreds of pages and this would save a lot of time (and hopefully encourage more people to patrol the pages and decrease the backlog, decreasing the backlog will lead to decreasing bad articles filtering through unnoticed). Furthermore, while it does not occur for all cases (where individuals will make an article and disappear from the face of the earth) my observations show that actually acknowledging their existence on Wikipedia with a welcome tag (and/or a suggestion of what to do with their article) actually leads them to fix their article (by wikifying, adding a ref + cat) rather than point blank adding the tags and not acknowliding them (would they even know how to watchlist the page?)
 * Furthermore, I noticed that there are a lot of pages that get patrolled but there is no interaction with the creators themselves (i.e. their talk pages remain red!) - I personally go through the trouble of welcoming them in addition to tagging their article, but if it could be possible to turn these two separate features into one, then I am sure things will improve for the better. Anyway it doesn't have to be mandatory for all users who use this program, it can be like an option to have and I for one want this badly. Sadly, I am not aware of the technical aspects of this so if anyone (the owner of friendly maybe?) can add this feature in (or specifically add the code in my monobook so I can do it and not affecting anyone else), that would be great. Cheers.
 * Ps. I have no idea if this is the correct place to request features, so if it is not then please place it to the place where it is.Calaka (talk) 12:30, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * PPS:A great analogy to this is of course how adding a CSD/PROD/AfD sends a message over to the user letting them know that is the case. I do not see why this can not be the same for the need to wikify, add a ref or a cat.Calaka (talk) 12:45, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Welcome template
Hi, I'm trying to get some input on my proposal at Template talk:Welcome to add a reference to the Article Wizard 2.0 on the Welcome template. cheers, Rd232 talk 21:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You should probably ask at WT:Welcoming committee – Friendly just uses the welcome templates, and might flip if their signature is changed, but otherwise I don't have any input on what they should say. I noticed you already added it to Firstarticle, which is placed on all empty user pages if a CSD notice is added, that's certainly the most important one. Cheers, Amalthea  11:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * OK thanks. Rd232 talk 11:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Future
Were the future templates totally removed from Friendly? 7 08:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevermind - found this Centralized discussion/Deprecating "Future" templates 7  08:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Expand from...
A feature request. There are a series of Expand from... templates (e.g. Expand French or Expand Russian that can be used to identify pages from a foreign wiki site that have more data that can be translated and added to enWiki. I was envisioning checking Expand from... and then a drop down appearing that lists the languages that are available via the template. A list of languages covered by the template can be found at Category:Expand by language Wikipedia templates. --Admrboltz (talk) 08:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That would be very useful actually! Good idea.Calaka (talk) 08:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If this is added, it should auto-select the page from interwiki links once the language has been selected (and, of course, allow the user to change the pagename if the page to be translated from is different, or if there is no iw link for the selected language). 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 21:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --εω (talk) 21:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Cat improve
I have made some substantial changes to Template:Cat improve, concerning namespaces and category handling. For all questions and comments, please use my talkpage. Debresser (talk) 13:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Simple English version
Could I make a Simple English Friendly? I'll just translate everything and all... Jeremjay 24  ''' 20:45, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. Code is released under CC-BY-SA, feel free to reuse it. To comply with the license you just have to point back here e.g. in the first edit summary. Cheers, Amalthea  20:50, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

TB tab
The TB module creates a new second-level header with the name "Talkback"- would it be possible for the module to check the page for headers with that name already, and name it "Talkback 2, 3, 4", etc? Non-unique header titles break navigation when loading pages from section-linked URLs, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Friendly#TB_tab. -- King Öomie 13:24, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This is probably a general issue with all section headers Friendly adds, in which case a new function specifically for adding the section header (which checks for identically-named sections above) might be called for. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 18:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Tags & hatnotes
This was brought up recently but nothing ever happened with it. Friendly is adding tags to the top of articles in contravention of the guidelines found at WP:HNP, WP:LAYOUT and WP:LEAD. This really isn't a complicated fix, as there is a defined set of hatnote templates, all of which can be found in the listing on (though, given how many articles I've come across that use an indent and italics manually instead of the template, it won't be even close to foolproof). &mdash; Skittleys (talk) 22:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sure that Friendly can be programmed to tag beneath defined hatnote templates, but yeah, if a hatnote is non-standard, not much one can do. SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:13, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Isn't there a bot that's supposed to be cleaning up hardcoded hatnotes? 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 19:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably, but you know how it is - every time a bot repairs one, an uninformed user adds three. SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Change to Welcome-anon
I changed a passage on welcome-anon to put a bigger push behind registering. I discussed it at Template talk:Welcome-anon, and since this is a big template with Friendly, I'd love for people to say what they think about the change. SchuminWeb (Talk) 19:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Problem with recentism and multi-tagging
See this diff. article issues supports this tag, but it wants  and not. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:50, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅, thanks. Amalthea  19:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Friendly being overextended
Twice now I have had articles I have created marked with both not having a lead section or references, both of which they have had. Not sure if this is an editor using Friendly improperly or just a bug, whichever, it would definitely be better if it was stopped. Seascapeza (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you asked the editor(s) why they placed that tag, or if it was an accident? I've never had it place that tag when tagging articles. tedder (talk) 05:09, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please provide diffs. Would be quite helpful in determining what's going on, but my gut says it's likely human error.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 06:16, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * If Seascapeza is referring to diffs like this, then I'm not seeing anything wrong with the tags. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:50, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As Chris pointed out,  that assessment was correct, and you also quite correctly removed the tags when you added that content a few minutes later. Quite generally though, Friendly doesn't verify whether a tag is placed correctly, it only provides means to place them easily, for whatever that's worth.  Amalthea  19:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Help please
Resolved. Could someone more technically inclined than me help fix either User:Floquenbeam/monobook.js, Template:Welcome-test, or both, so it works correctly with Friendly? I added it as a custom template, and it shows up fine as a custom template in the drop down menu, but no matter if I specify a linked article, or leave it blank, it says in either case "such as your edit to the page Floquenbeam". Only happens using Friendly, not when I just subst the template. Hope this page is on someone's watchlist, and thanks in advance. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that article uses non-standard parameter names, which is why it has to be pushed a bit. I've (a hack, really) to your monobook.js that will pass an empty parameter 1, which will suggest to the template that no article parameter was passed. Your user name will still be passed as a parameter (number 3), so if the template is ever changed to output additional parameters you might have to modify it again. Not quite perfect, admittedly, the custom list should provide the ability to define some more meta information, like whether the template has a built-in signature and support for article parameters.  Amalthea  18:06, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Tags & hatnotes (continued)

 * Continued from WT:Friendly/Archive 4

✅. I have only tested it on a few pages, please have an eye on this if you tag articles during the next couple of days. Amalthea 19:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Awesome. This is going to save me a ton of manual editing. Cheers! Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:37, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Welcome edit summary typo
"Added welcome template to user talk page. using Friendly". There's an unneeded period after "page". It's really small, but it should be addressed sooner or later. Airplaneman talk 18:22, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Amalthea  18:09, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

"Added tag to article. using Friendly" it's there too :(. Airplaneman  talk 08:11, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅, too. Amalthea  16:09, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Friendly oddness
This edit is, well, odd. I've never seen Friendly remove content before.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  18:26, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, this sounds like some rather old Twinkle bug I've never looked into, e.g. WP:TW/BUG, where Twinkle (and thus Friendly) gets outdated content from MediaWiki and doesn't recognize the edit conflict. With the approaching switch to HTML5 the whole editing system needs to be reworked anyway, so I don't think I'll fix it anymore. It should only ever happen if you make two consecutive edits to a page (the move apparently counts, too). Amalthea  16:06, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Friendly should not tag as a minor edit.

 * (5/0/2); scheduled to end 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I know this has been discussed before: Should a friendly tagging be marked as minor or major? According to wp:minor edit, it should be marked as major. It is currently marked as minor. Please state your opinion on the subject so we can create a community consensus. Who thinks it should be marked as major? Btilm 17:35, 15 November 2009 (UTC)


 *  Without going straight to straw polling, I'll copy an answer I posted on my talk page below. Amalthea  18:00, 15 November 2009 (UTC) 
 * Hmm. I fixed it by removing the recommendation from the help page. This was brought up twice before at WT:FRIENDLY, I don't think there was ever a consensus for that addition to Help:Minor edit: There's some sparse, ongoing discussion on its talk page since 2007, it was by a now-banned editor, and I for one don't think that such a blanket recommendation makes sense. In particular with new page patrolling, I don't consider any added Friendly tags as major edits. It certainly is a different story with older, more established articles, I would agree with you that addition of tags should not be called minor. Then again, in my opinion Friendly shouldn't be used to tag any established articles anyway: Pointing out issues on the talk page or, if possible, just fixing them makes way more sense with older article with many revisions and authors, where the categorization isn't that helpful, issues are typically not as clear-cut or undisputed, and drive-by tagging understandably angers the main editors of those articles a bit anyway. Any user can already change his Friendly configuration to not mark taggings as minor. We could also add a checkbox to display and toggle the status in the Friendly window. Feel free to discuss this or ask for more opinions at WT:FRIENDLY though. Cheers,  Amalthea  15:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) Support per wp:minor edit Btilm  17:35, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Support - per above. The checkbox that lets you switch is also a good idea. Airplaneman  talk 01:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Mostly Support I was one of the editors who brought this up on this page in the past.  I think that the default should be to not mark templates as minor.  One argument presented at Help_talk:Minor_edit seems to be that experienced editors are capable of using their judgment to tag as minor or not on a case-by-case basis.  IMHO that still suggests that the default should be not to tag.  Experienced editors can change that default, and in doing so will apply their judgment.  But anyone who just picks up the tool and rolls with it should get the most conservative behavior, which in this case is not marking as minor (see e.g. comment by Adrian J. Hunter at the above-linked thread).  That said, I don't care strongly about the default value one way or the other if a UI checkbox is implemented (and visible by default).  The presence of a checkbox is prominent enough warning that there is an issue that deserves thought, regardless of the default.  A checkbox will also make the tool all around more flexible. —  æk T C  07:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) Sounds good. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 04:14, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) Support - Most of the edits are not minor. December21st2012Freak   Happy Thanksgiving! 02:40, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 6) Support Edits should not be marked as minor unless the editor knows what they're doing. Using minor edits as the default could allow obviously major edits, possibly abuse and vandalism, to go unnoticed. The option should still be there, but minor edits should not be the default behaviour. Reach Out to the Truth 22:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Neutral

 * 1) Neutral. It's a semi-automated addition of maintenance tags to an article.  I've gone both ways when adding maintenance tags manually.  Obviously, welcome messages should not be tagged minor (and I don't think they are), but for maintenance tags, it could go either way for me.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 02:39, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Neutral. I was asked by Btilm on IRC to support this, along with the rest of #wikipedia-en, but I really don't give a toss. Gurch (talk) 03:03, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note - I'm assuming you got a friendly notice, rather than a request to support. Is that correct?  7  04:27, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * (3:01:35 AM) btilm: will you please participate at the important discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Friendly#Friendly_tagging_as_minor_edit.
 * (3:02:44 AM) btilm: Just sign your name please
 * <tt>(3:02:50 AM) btilm: that will help a lot</tt>
 * <tt>(3:03:09 AM) btilm: just put under support</tt>


 * Gurch (talk) 08:16, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Feature Request: expert-subject
I notice that the addition of the expert-subject template was discussed at this thread, though it seems not to have ever been added. If it's not too much trouble, it would make a good addition. As a minimum, it should have a text box to enter the name of the Wikiproject to get experts from. There are a lot of wikiprojects, so I don't know if a dropdown is feasible. A textbox with autocompletion (like the left-hand search box) would be really great, but probably more work to code. — <span style='background:rgb(40,40,120); padding:2px; padding-top:7px;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px #999'> æk <sup style='color:white'>Talk 09:54, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Friendly blocked by fundraising banner
Is anyone else having an issue where the Friendly and Twinkle tool bar links are blocked by the fundraising banner? I am unable to run Friendly to post a welcome banner for new Wikipedia users. When I edit the new user's red-linked Talk page (or any page for that matter), the links tool bar appears to be blocked or obscured by the Wikipedia Forever banner, no matter whether the banner is hidden or displayed. I have the same challenge with both Firefox and Chrome. -- btphelps (talk) (contribs) 18:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't had that problem, but you should be able to resolve it by going to the "Gadgets" tab of your preferences (link at the top right of any page) and checking the box to "suppress display of the fundraising banners. — <span style='background:rgb(40,40,120); padding:2px; padding-top:7px;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px #999'> æk <sup style='color:white'>Talk 22:27, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Automatic watchlisting...
I add welcome templates to many user talk pages on a daily basis. I don't need them clogging up my watchlist so please can Friendly not add such pages to watchlists by default? Thanks. – ukexpat (talk) 17:18, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have "Add pages I create to my watchlist" or "Add pages I edit to my watchlist" activated in your preferences? Amalthea  00:45, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No. – ukexpat (talk) 22:30, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to think it's a setting around there that does it. There are actually four settings related to the watchlist that I'm inclined to think might be it:


 * Add pages I edit to my watchlist
 * Add pages I move to my watchlist
 * Add pages I delete to my watchlist
 * Add pages I create to my watchlist


 * Obviously, if you're not an admin, the third one doesn't apply (and may not appear at all), but that last one, which I marked in bold, is likely the one that's doing it. Twinkle has a setting that can adjust your watchlist for pages you roll back, but I don't believe Friendly does.  Is that one checked?  SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Swap positions of "Potential problem user templates" and "Anonymous user templates"?
I find myself using the welcome templates for anonymous users way more than I find myself using the welcome templates for potential problem users. What do people think about switching their position in the welcome box, to put the anon templates above the problem-user templates? SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Me too(tm), but let me hijack. What about reducing the number of templates provided? There is probably only a need for 1-3 "friendly" welcomes, and the existing number of "problem" welcomes. tedder (talk) 00:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know... I use most of the ones that are on the list, but not the vandal one in the anon list, and the vandal, npov, or spam ones in the problem user list, as I will go straight to a warning for those cases. So if templates are also to be removed, it would be those.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds like the real issue is the order and items displayed should be configurable. tedder (talk) 04:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

MediaWiki Support
Can i use this at my own wiki? (It uses Mediawiki). The url is AliceWiki.co.cc Kind Regards, HiddenKnowledge (talk) 21:11, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think there's any reason not to, as long as you know what you're doing in installing the whole thing (its licensed under GFDL like everything else). Amalthea or someone similarly more talented than me can probably provide more details on the technical end as far as what you need to do to install TW's backend on a wiki, but as far as licensing and such, you're clear, I believe.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, this is Friendly's talk page... he he... but if you want to put Friendly in, you might as well put Twinkle in, too, since they run off the same engine. SchuminWeb (Talk) 06:32, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Image tagging
Would it be possible for Friendly's tagging capabilities to be expanded to images, or anything with the  prefix? There are plenty of cleanup templates available, and it would be great if they could be available at the click of a button. Thoughts? Seegoon (talk) 23:31, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't be hard to do. Could you compile a list of templates that would be useful there? -- Amalthea 12:46, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Glorious! I think initially the ones pertaining to image format and quality would be the handiest to have on quick access. But most of the orange-rimmed templates would be good, including Non-free reduce, bsr and imagewatermark. For ifr, would it be possible that a text entry box comes up, allowing us to enter a suggested rename and a reason? Seegoon (talk) 13:24, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, and if I had more time than for basic maintenance, I'd actually have looked into it by now. :\ Amalthea  13:44, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Have you looked into FURME? That's built on the same framework and seems to do what you're expecting.  I've said that it should be absorbed into Friendly at least once before...  SchuminWeb (Talk) 13:53, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Area code
I am guessing that this tag was a mistake. If not, I am alerting you that I have merged all the Area_code_box_# templates into one. Thanks! Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 19:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was a mistake, the original creator of the doc page must have used some other doc page as a template. Thanks anyway, Amalthea  13:37, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Welcoming issue
I've notices that Friendly does not work when I try to welcome users with quotation marks in their usernames. Why?  IShadowed  ✰  04:09, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * . Do you have a particular username in mind? Amalthea  13:35, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Typo in Welcome
When I hover my cursor over the question mark at the end of "W-shout: extroverted message with bold advice" I see a typo. Please check for any other errors. (see File:Friendly Welcome Tab.PNG) -- allen四names 15:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Fixed! If anyone else spots any errors, let us know.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 17:46, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Not fixed. I see the folowing...


 * "This template is similar to WelcomeShout but spports many different options. Includes a signature.".
 * when I hover my cursor over the question mark mentioned above. -- allen四names 19:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As always, you need to bypass your browser cache to see any effect. Amalthea  19:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I know but sometimes I forget. ✅ -- allen四names 19:47, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

new optional parameter for welcomeshort
I just added the parameter thanks to welcomeshort. It shouldn't interfere with Friendly, but I just wanted to notify you guys. &mdash; Sebastian 22:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right, Friendly won't be bothered by that additional named parameter. Thanks for the notice! Amalthea  23:01, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Added section heading on Welcome-anon-vandalism-fighter
Just converted the bold text at the top of Welcome-anon-vandalism-fighter to a proper section heading. I guess Friendly should be updated to include one of those question marks out there saying so. - Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 10:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Did that, for some reason Friendly already assumed the template placed a section header, so you've actually brought them in sync with your change. Thanks for the notice, Amalthea  18:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Trying to install at enWS, welcome is not showing
At a request from a user, I am looking to get Friendly running at WS, and I am only partially successful. I cannot get the WELCOME component to materialise, from either the full install, or the specific install of the welcome component. I can get TAB to show okay, and I have Twinkle functioning, so there is no specific issue with implementing via importScriptURI. I would rather have it directly linked rather than separately installed to keep it in line with updates. Any thoughts/suggestions? billinghurst (talk) 11:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum: I should add that Friendly and Twinkle function fine in my browser at WP. billinghurst (talk)
 * I can try to have a look at this, but not before next week I'm afraid. Cheers, Amalthea  10:26, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Naturally that is both fine and very welcome. :-) billinghurst (talk) 22:52, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Auto Remove the New unreviewed article template?
I'm seeing a few new articles with the Template:New unreviewed article from the New Article Wizard. If I tag them using Friendly, it doesn't remove the tag. Is it possible to do so? Would be a useful time saver. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 00:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you all think, is this something that should be enabled by default? Configurable? Are there circumstances when you don't want that to happen? Amalthea  13:42, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems like this should be enabled by default, according to the template itself ("should be removed once the page has been reviewed"). I don't think that there needs to be a new checkbox added to the UI to enable/disable this per-page – it seems like something that should always be done.  I suppose it wouldn't hurt to add a preference accessible through javascript (i.e. a key in FriendlyConfig) to allow people to opt out of removing the template if they really want to, but IMO it should be removed by default. — <span style='color:rgb(25,25,112)'>æk <sup style='color:rgb(210,105,30)'>Talk  20:07, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * In that case, it seems like we should tie removal of that template to the FriendlyConfig.markTaggedPagesAsPatrolled configuration parameter. That way, only if Friendly marks the page as patrolled will the template be removed.  Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 17:08, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Incorporate existing tags into article issues
Currently Friendly will ignore a tag you choose if it's already used on the article. Could it be changed that if you use article issues for the tags, it removes the tag that already exists and instead incorporates it into the article issues template, preserving the old date? Currently Friendly will add a article issues template above current tags which makes it look kind of pointless to use the combined template. Regards  So Why  13:25, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know it's not ideal behavior, and I have worked on doing this in the past. It involves some pretty complex regex, and I'm not sure that I want to spend the time doing it when it might be easier with the new framework I've been working on.  We'll see, though.  Good suggestion!  Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 17:06, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Template:Wb
Would it be possible to add wb as a talkback template or at least as an option? -- The New  Mikemoral  ♪♫ 00:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Talkback issue?
All of the sudden, I can't leave a Tb message for a Talk: page that isn't a user talk page with Friendly. I tried using the template manually as well, but to no avail. The page link comes up as a red link (because "User_talk:" is added to the beginning. Did something change, or is it just my imagination? –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ <sub style="color:#5100CC;">galaxies  04:31, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I also can't test anything on my own talk page; Friendly won't let me. So I've been testing on some poor fellow's page lol –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ <sub style="color:#5100CC;">galaxies 
 * So I'm confused—I can use Tb with a user page, or a Talk: page like "Talk:Avril Lavigne," but I can't use Tb with "Talk:The_Tonight_Show_with_Conan_O%27Brien"???? Not a biggie, I just had to write the message out in longhand through my keyboard, that's all! (I'm kidding ; D) –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ <sub style="color:#5100CC;">galaxies  04:39, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, because the MediaWiki code is one huge mess (patches upon patches). While you can link to Talk:The_Tonight_Show_with_Conan_O%27Brien (with the encoded apostrophe) just fine, the namespace detection doesn't work:
 * For that reason, the template assumes you try to leave a user talk talkback, prefixes it with "User talk:", and everything breaks down. 22553, workaround it by using the normalized page titles (don't copy from the browser address bar, but from the page title in the page). Amalthea  17:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For that reason, the template assumes you try to leave a user talk talkback, prefixes it with "User talk:", and everything breaks down. 22553, workaround it by using the normalized page titles (don't copy from the browser address bar, but from the page title in the page). Amalthea  17:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For that reason, the template assumes you try to leave a user talk talkback, prefixes it with "User talk:", and everything breaks down. 22553, workaround it by using the normalized page titles (don't copy from the browser address bar, but from the page title in the page). Amalthea  17:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, great timing, and thanks for the information! I was just swinging by to strikeout the comments and paste them on the actual talkback template page. I just realized this probably wasn't the best place to mention the issue. But sounds like it's a known problem; looks like you reported it as a bug.  Thanks again. : ) –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ <sub style="color:#5100CC;">galaxies  22:30, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wasn't known, as far as I can tell, the bug report is brand new. I've just come to expect those title verifications inconsistencies, that's why you don't find me surprised. :\ Amalthea  00:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Template:Citation style
The doc page for Template:Citation style suggests a notice here if I make "major changes" to the template. I would not really call this major, but someone might, so I figured a notice would not hurt. I added a "details" parameter for specifying additional details about the problem. An unnamed parameter was documented to do this, but not implemented. -- JPMcGrath (talk) 06:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and just as you thought, that change won't affect Friendly's usage of that template. Amalthea  17:56, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Template:Wb
I asked this earlier, but it was archived. Would it be possible to add wb as a talkback template option? -- Mike moral  ♪♫  01:33, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Why? Seems to unnecessarily complicate things to have multiple talkback templates in there.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The point is wb is not as big as tb and it looks much like a normal message rather than a template. -- Mike moral  ♪♫  05:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

In-universe drop down menu
Since there are several Template:In-universe sub-templates, I believe Friendly could benefit from an "in-universe" drop down menu similar to the one for Notability.--Marcus Brute (talk) 17:53, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Possible new feature? Give it a try!
Hey everyone. Sorry I've not been very active on the Friendly project lately. I've been busy with some off-wiki stuff related to improving Twinkle and Friendly that hopefully will go somewhere. I just recently developed a new UI script that changes the behavior of and adds functionality to the Wikipedia sidebar and was hoping some of you might like to try it out. Simply import User:Ioeth/friendlysidebar.js into your monobook.js file to give it a whirl. If you have any complaints, comments or bugs to report, please do so at my talk page. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ioeth (talk • contribs)
 * I like how it's sticky, so when you scroll, the sidebar stays where it is. A minor point: it malfunctions in my monobook. The search bar is so sticky that when I scroll sideways, it follows, which leads to a messy jumble of icons and links. Overall, great! Airplaneman  talk 19:02, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Uninstalling for the time being. The issue stated previously is rampant when I'm using User:J.delanoy/newpage.js. If I scroll down, the links are compressed and jumbled at the top. Airplaneman  talk 20:19, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Welcome template addition
After discussing it with the user, I would like to suggest the addition of as a welcome template. What do you all think of it?  N ERDY S CIENCE D UDE  (✉ msg • changes) 19:06, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's added, it should be called "WelcomeMenu2" or something. Airplaneman  talk 20:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't we have enough options already? This seems very similar to WelcomeMenu, but in garish colours and with cookies. Rd232 talk 22:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with giving a new user cookies?  N ERDY S CIENCE D UDE  (✉ msg • changes) 22:45, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I think it depends on the recipient whether it sets the right tone. Anyway, welcome-personal has cookies. Rd232 talk 23:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no welcome menu with cookies in the current version of Friendly. Afterall, don't bite the newcomers!  N ERDY S CIENCE D UDE  (✉ msg • changes) 00:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * welcome-personal Rd232 talk 18:31, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * welcome-personal is not a welcome menu with a large amount of links.  N ERDY S CIENCE D UDE  (✉ msg • changes) 18:35, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Right. Well if you're going with a cookie tone, I think collapsing the links is better. Rd232 talk 20:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

It's really just a template that I made from WelcomeMenu and added stuff to it. Do you think hiding the links for the sake of saving space is a good or bad move (will the links not be considered)? Airplaneman talk 00:11, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think collapsing the links is a good idea - then they're right there for people to see, but not immediately overwhelming. I've tweaked the text here and undid the edit; feel free to redo if you like the changes. I still prefer the colours of WelcomeMenu though, and I'm not keen on the green of the "show links" bar. Something softer and more pleasant perhaps? With some refinement, I think it's worth adding. It could be called welcomeMenu-personal. Rd232 talk 18:31, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I like it! As you have probably noticed, I am not too great when it comes to selecting colors. I'll continue to tweak; feel free to add some yourself :). Airplaneman  talk 00:20, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried tweaking some more, and I think it's better, but I can't seem to shake the grey bits. You could try asking at the WP:HELPDESK. Rd232 talk 08:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Can't see them; are you talking about the purple rectangles at the ends of the headings? I tried to match the border color a bit better with them. Airplaneman  talk 18:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Unfriendly bug
I don't know how many times this was mentioned before, but I think I noticed a bug on Friendly. I try to tag the maintenance templates whilst an administrator deletes the article. As soon as I click the "submit" button the article restores but my templates appear on a blank page. I look in the history box and the only contribution I see is mine, and it appears that my contribution restored the article. Minima c  ( talk ) 04:16, 13 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I get the same problem. Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (talk) 05:43, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Just happended to me with London Metal Company Codf1977 (talk)

Also, when Friendly is tagging a page that already has a Article issues tag on it, it does not group the parameters into the one template, instead, it places a new template, such as here. Ham tech  person  18:48, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Hide "tag" button when viewing an uneditable page
If the current page is uneditable (e.g. it is fully protected and I am not an administrator), the "tag" button should not appear as I cannot edit the page anyway. This can be easily checked by checking the value of the JS variable and comparing it with. I've got an example setup here, which I wrote for myself. <font face="Verdana"> Gary King ( talk ) 00:07, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Deletion discussion of Template:Welcom
Welcom has been nominated for deletion at Templates for discussion/Log/2010 March 22. For your information, עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 15:26, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'll keep an eye on it. Amalthea  16:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Now deleted. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 00:10, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I removed it pro-actively a couple of days ago. Amalthea  12:04, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Article issues moved
The template has been moved to multiple issues. This needs to be updated in Friendly so we don't continue to add a redirected template. --Darkwind (talk) 13:02, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅You guys have too much time. Amalthea  20:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Addition of a non-shared IP to the list?
I believe that this would be a good add-on to the "Shared IP" tab, to save time for people checking RIR's for the IP. A p 3 rson ✉   20:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC) P.S: I could make the template if need be.


 * I have no idea what you are trying to say. Amalthea  20:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Like maybe an icon (on the top of the page) or a template that is added to a user's page that basically says that "this user has been verified as having a static, un-shared IP." A p 3 rson ✉   00:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Accidentally created a page by tagging a newly-deleted page
Ummmm I was tagging a page with but apparently in between the tagging the article was deleted so it was immediately recreated with only the template. Can someone fix that? BTW the page in question is at 77Diamonds Ltd‎. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I wonder if that's something that can be fixed neatly. An edit with Friendly and Twinkle is a regular edit done with a script.  If the article is deleted out from under you, now, it's going to still place the edit, and the first edit creates the page, which brings us to this issue.  Hmmm...  SchuminWeb (Talk) 12:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh I get it I just requested it being fixed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It'd be trivial if we were using the MediaWiki API. The proper fix is to port Twinkle, but that will take some work. Amalthea  13:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Blocking talkback
Would be nice if Friendly would implement a check to see if an editor preferred not to receive talkback notes. For those people who are close followers of their watchlist and who watch other users talk pages when leaving a message the talkback function is not needed and some users may prefer to have it turned off. I personally tell users at the top of my talk page that I will watch their page and that they should not bother to leave me talkback notes - but naturally I still get a lot of them anyway.

Would it be possible to allow users to set a flag in preferences a hidden field at the top of their talk page which would prevent friendly from leaving me talkback notes?

e.g. in my user talk:

{{User:MiszaBot/config . ..
 * maxarchivesize = 200K

which would show the following in the status box when a user tried to leave talkback for me: Status: Edit token grabbed; adding talkback notification to user talk page... Talkback notification not completed; recipient has indicated that they will watch your talk page and prefer not to receive talkback notices

Or something along those lines? Thanks. 7 03:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Doable, but a less black and white handling would be preferable I think. For example, I myself don't normally want talkbacks unless it is apparent that I unwatched or otherwise missed a reply – in that case I welcome pointers on my talk page. So, how about such a marker would only make Friendly pop up a confirmation box, saying that the talkbackee normally watches discussions he participated in, and talkback notices are not normally required (could even pull that text from the user's talk page). Any such mechanism would require an additional server request to get the marker, currently Friendly doesn't ever have the page source. Amalthea  11:00, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Thanks for the quick reply.    7  11:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, quick replies are easy. The implementation will certainly take a bit (patches welcome, as always), the Twinkle bug list is frightfully long and probably takes priority. Amalthea  14:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Need help? I'm a former programmer (a decade ago - but I understand the logic).  If I were starting this myself I would grab some of the page reading logic (e.g. from UAA reporting) to read the users talk page and see if the string existed and modify the actions friendly takes from there.  Let me know.   7  23:55, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

New Page Patrol problem
Please see WT:Twinkle. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:58, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion
For Friendly, how about a WikiLove feature that adds templates such as Cookie, munch, smile,, cheeseburger, WikiPint, Troutalt, balloons, lollipop, peace dove and so on to user talk pages. What do you all think? ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ message • changes) 22:20, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, in my opinion, that would make those messages of appreciation even less personal. As far as I'm concerned, personal messages are the ones I enjoy most. Amalthea  21:55, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This would make those kinds of messages less personal if it could just be dropped via Friendly.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Welcome-personal
I added more subst: to Welcome-personal, which should allow for cleaner substitution without residual parser function logic. Revert if this is a problem. Thanks! Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 23:52, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but no problem at all, as long as the parameters work as before. Cheers, Amalthea  21:52, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Blocked subject template
I've found Template:Blocked subject, would that be a useful addition to Friendly's repertoire? SGGH ping! 12:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Is it likely to get used enough to justify the space? Also, is it a good Friendly addition, or is it a better fit with Twinkle?  I'm leaning towards saying it's a better fit with the Twinkle than the Friendly, but the initial question still stands.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 14:25, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I was going to suggest Twinkle as well, to be honest I've only found about 3 instances where I could have used it. Is there a space concern in javascript stuff? SGGH ping! 23:44, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No space concern to my knowledge, but do we need/want something so rarely used in there? SchuminWeb (Talk) 11:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Any remaining Vector issues?
Seeing that MediaWiki will switch the default skin to Vector in a couple of days, and since I don't use Vector myself: Are there any remaining issues with Friendly and Vector that any of you know of? Amalthea 21:53, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Help! What am I doing wrong? Upon the switch to vector, I lost Friendly altogether. I still have Twinkle, but ... I copied my monobook.js file to my vector.js file .... Ray  Talk 06:51, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've lost Friendly under any skin. Is there some sort of bug ongoing? Ray  Talk 06:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I was being an idiot. Sorry about that. Ray  Talk 19:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

"Tag" tab moved?
I noticed today that the "tag" tab (try saying that one ten times fast) moved all the way to the right on the tab bar, compared to where it used to be, just right of the "watch/unwatch" tab and to the left of Twinkle's tabs. Was this an intentional change or unintentional? Can it be moved back? SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably a side effect from placing the Twinkle tabs in the drop down, the tab order is largely implicitly defined by each editor's setup. Is this still an issue with Vector? :) Amalthea  19:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No - it was strictly a Monobook issue, and I have no problems with where it goes in Vector. SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

One souce template
I'm informing you as per your request that someone has nominated the "One Source" template for deletion. You can see the current discussion here. By the way, I am opposed to the article deletion, and think the person who nominated it is just mad that someone tried to use it on one of "his" articles. Mathman1550 (talk) 03:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the note. Looks like it's going to be kept, but I've watchlisted it so if it's going to be deleted anyway I'll notice. Cheers, Amalthea  19:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Template:Expand
Per this TFD discussion could template:expand be removed from friendly? Garion96 (talk) 19:18, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Huh. ✅, although I'm not sure I agree with that outcome. :) Thanks for the notice, Amalthea  19:33, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Garion96 (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel that the TfD for this template should not have been closed as delete and I have contacted the deleting admin-User:Coren, and am hoping he/she will reconsider. Immunize (talk) 13:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I have taken this to Deletion review and there seems to be at least some consensus to overturn the deletion of this template, so it may need to be added back into friendly soon. Immunize  (talk) 18:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This template will need to be added back to friendly, as the deletion review was recently closed as 'overturn to no consensus. Immunize (talk) 13:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅, thanks for the notice. Amalthea  18:12, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

intro --> lead
For constancy we've changed intro to lead in templates. The correct template names are as follows:

Marcus Aurelius (talk) 22:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Changed in Friendly accordingly. Amalthea  15:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Monobook / Vector
Hi! I just installed Friendly, but it only started functioning when I changed Appearance to Monobook. I tried downloading Friendly to Vector Custom JS but it didn't work. Does Friendly only work with Monobook skin or is it me who made a mistake? Lova  Falk  11:01, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Friendly (and Twinkle) both work on Vector. I just transferred them this morning, and they both seem to work.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 14:53, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe you just didn't see the functions, they are inside the drop down menu to the left of the search box? Amalthea  19:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * nope looking & it neither function --Natet/c 12:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You had a syntax error in User:Nate1481/vector.js. Bypass your cache and try again. If that doesn't help, have a look at WP:TW/DOC. A report of "neither function" doesn't enable me to help you. Amalthea  13:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * . Amalthea  10:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Amalthea you're probably right. There are there now, but I use Notebook anyway. Lova Falk   talk  14:54, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Tag issues
There are currently several problems with the tags used by Friendly: I'd be happy if they could be fixed to avoid the pages being filled with redirects and/or redlinks. Thanks, --The Evil IP address (talk) 14:50, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Catimprove, Copyedit, Deadend, Morefootnotes, Nofootnotes, Verylong, Primarysources, Toofewopinions, Inuse and Underconstruction have a space added for readability and thus currently use redirects when tagging
 * Notenglish has a space added and "English" capitalized
 * Pov-check and Coi, Goceinuse capitalize now
 * Tone redirects to Inappropriate tone, Close paraphrase redirects to Close paraphrasing, refimproveBLP redirects to BLP sources, Unencyclopedic redirects to NOT, UnreferencedBLP redirects to BLP unsourced
 * Current antics and Ongoing election redirect to Current, which is already there
 * Internallinks redirects to Dead end, which is already in there
 * Do-attempt has been deleted

Templates!
Could someone implement Template:UploaderHints into Friendly? I feel that it would be useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mono (talk • contribs)
 * For a welcome template, I assume. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 23:31, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Vandal tagging
I would like to see twinkle have a feature that lets you tag IP's that have been blocked 3> times from edititng as repeat vandals. Immunize (talk) 23:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Would it be of much use? Admins see the full block log on the block template page when they go to block a user.  Ron h jones (Talk) 00:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

It allows users who are not admins to see the block log easily, and lets them know that (the vandalism) has been going on for quite some time. Immunize (talk) 13:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I realise that is what it would do, I just don't think it make a lot of benefit - I suspect it must slow Twinkle down a bit as it would have to do a request for the block page, and then decide what to show. Besides which I tend to see three main types of IP repeat vandals, not all would show up in your idea...
 * Schools, Libraries, etc., often many blocks, often as soon after a block expires, some one realises the block is off and dives in vandalising, the new and longer block soon follows (although libraries tend to not get the long blocks) - so these would show, but it not actually one person.
 * Dynamic IPs - a real problem, make 4 vandal edits and switch IP address. Never get a block, I sometime have to resort to a fast page protect to stop them - sometimes work in teams to prevent rollback working.
 * Casual IP vandals - make 4 vandal edits, then wait a week or so, as they know the automated bots will start from warning #1 again when there is a gap. Gets the odd block if they miscalculate.
 * My main concern is that Twinkle will be slower, but I maybe it could be individually disabled. Anyway, it's a nice week-end and I'm off to the boat :-)  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:06, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I feel that the tag should typically be used on the first group of IP's-the schools and libraries. I feel that given that (in my opinion) it is a very useful template, it should be included in twinkle, similar to how shared IP notices can be added. Immunize (talk) 19:17, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I see. Maybe the option to add  could be added to WP:FRIENDLY - possibly as an option in the "shared ip" tab?  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:50, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * How can this be accomplished? Immunize (talk) 20:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I would suggest ask at Wikipedia talk:Friendly, I think IP tags are generated with code in User:Ioeth/friendlyshared.js  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * As you can see, I have moved the discussion from WT:TW here. I would like to get a good idea of how soon we can add this function to friendly, as I feel it would be quite useful . Immunize (talk) 15:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Why have I not recieved a reply yet? I personally have no idea of have to add a feature to friendly-I assume only administrators are capable of it. Immunize (talk) 21:18, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I have previously looked into it, but it needs some deeper changes to the script since the template you propose has a somewhat different function than the ones that are already in there, and needs different treatment. It's on my to do list, albeit not at the very top. Personally, I don't think this is a particularly important tag. Any vandal that has been blocked repeatedly will already have a list of block templates on his talk page which will inform a visiting editor much more than an additional tag, and any admin looking into blocking an IP will of course visit the block log anyway. Amalthea  19:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It can be useful for cases where old block templates have been removed. Immunize (talk) 13:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The user of the IP would remove both block templates and recurring vandal tags. Another editor cleaning the page up would, presumably, leave the latest block notifications on the page. Amalthea  18:14, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I was actually referring to cases where old blocks/warnings are removed by registered editor to tidy the page. This would be very useful in that case. Immunize  (talk) 20:39, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, how soon, if ever, can this template be added to friendly? Immunize (talk) 21:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Double Sig
I added a custom welcome to Friendly a few days ago and just noticed that it adds my signature after the template, which is not needed since I have it already (where I want it) in my welcome template. This makes it so that I have two sigs, for example, here. Is there any way to tell Friendly to not to add the signature, or do I have to remove the built-in one, which is in the place I want it to be? Thanks, Airplaneman   ✈  19:31, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, right, I think this has come up before. At the moment Friendly doesn't allow you to pass in that meta information. To do that properly will need some rewriting Patches, as always, are welcome. :)  Amalthea  21:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. For now, I'll just remove the extra from my template. If someone gets to writing the patch, please notify me :). Thanks, Airplaneman   ✈  23:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Loss of friendly tabs
I use the modern skin and import friendly manually on my modern.js page. About two weeks ago, the talkback tag disappeared and I had not changed any of my user settings recently. Just today, I noticed that the welcome tag disappeared and I am fairly sure I have used it since the talkback tag left and have not changed any of my settings. Another tab that I use from friendly, the tag tab, has remained unchanged.

I want to restore the tabs I have lost. I have not really explored fixes for this issue because I thought perhaps someone on this board already had made a note, but nothing is here. Does anyone know anything about this? Has something changed recently, or do I need to be hit with a trout?  Blue Rasberry  18:19, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You forty minutes before you posted this. Has it only disappeared since then, or is it sometimes there, and sometimes not? Is it possible that the navigation bar is just full, and the missing links are outside the visible screen, or is there still a significant amount of room (i.e. more than one word)? What browser are you using, what gadgets are you using, and do you notice any errors in your javascript console (see WP:TW/DOC)?  Amalthea  18:41, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I used the welcome tab by removing things then just activating Friendly, so that just verifies that the problem is with me. You hit on my problem - the missing links were outside the visible screen, and probably this is because I made some change and forgot that I had done so.
 * I fixed this problem and need no further help. The solution was using the friendlytabs feature, which renames various tab functions to make them shorter and take up less space.  I activated this, and my problem is gone.  Thanks for helping me troubleshoot this.  Blue Rasberry  17:04, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

A proxy warning?
Add to the shared IP listing? A p 3 rson ‽   02:08, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:Welcome-COI
I noticed this template doesn't "sign" itself for me. I mean, it talks about the importance of adding ~ to every talk page to which you add stuff, but this one... well, it's a hypocrite! :-). Someone, help me? —<font face="Rage Italic" size="4" style="color:#000000;color:black">Duncan What I Do / What I Say 00:18, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Edit: Template:Welcome-anon-vandalism-fighter. What's up with this? Are all the welcome templates like this? —<font face="Rage Italic" size="4" style="color:#000000;color:black">Duncan What I Do / What I Say 00:36, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I tried it, it seems to work fine. A p 3 rson ‽   00:57, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Perhaps there's something in my settings that's not working out. —<font face="Rage Italic" size="4" style="color:#000000;color:black">Duncan What I Do / What I Say 01:06, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

See below – you might need to bypass your browser cache to get it to sign again. Amalthea 09:09, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Help - No Sign
When i given a welcome with "Friendly", the message doesn't have my signature. Can anyone help out? Its so weird advising someone to sign without signing the advice message. (Heres an example). Thanks  Arjun  codename024 17:20, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Same thing with a talkback. See this]. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 05:11, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've actually turned it off for talkback. Talkback notices shouldn't normally be signed, so Friendly will only do so now if you enter a message to go along with it. You can use to make it always sign.  Amalthea  09:01, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

... but that was of course the cause for this problem since friendlywelcome used the same config switch. So, after you bypass your browser cache it should sign welcome templates again, and if you want to always sign talkback templates too use. Amalthea 09:05, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't work. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 03:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. Did you say you turned off auto-sign for welcome templates as well, or just talkback? When I add my welcome template, it still auto-signs. Airplaneman   ✈  03:48, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It did affect welcome templates; that has been resolved. Only talkbcks are affected, and I can't get the auto-sign talkbacks parameter in my vector.js to work. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 04:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Only affected it for some, nondeterministically. Amalthea  18:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)