Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Torrent Project/Archive 3

New file, new torrent success
Being curious, confused and consternated by the tracker situation, but fairly ignorant as to how this torrent business works, I conducted the following exercise I selected Seedleech.com from The Beehive Tracker List, starting at the top and working my way down. #46 of 50, Seedleech.com, was the first tracker on that list that would accomodate the torrent, and it certainly seems to be working. After 3 hours, the torrent has 8 peers, of which 2 are seeders. Also, the .torrent info has been picked up from Seedleech.com by TorrentPortal. I learned a fair amount in the process - for instance, encyclopedic/educational themed torrents don't have many places that want to track them. Hopefully this exercise will help to get wpcd.zip back into more active play. -- Paleorthid 21:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Took wpcd.zip and recompressed the contents to 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection.rar
 * 2) Created 2006 Wikipedia CD selection.rar.torrent using μTorrent
 * 3) Uploaded the torrent to http://seedleech.com/ (see it here)
 * Many thanks Paleorthid, the torrent is running, and tracker is working great, we just have to throw on some more seeders. Of course we need just one torrent, but the original took some time to work, and then it stopped working...then we added a tracker, that stopped...there is another torrent (up there). Eventually we will need to make just one torrent and throw on every tracker we have. There is absolutley nothing wrong with this except that the file is in .rar. Of course .rar is a growing format, but since most people might not have any knowledge of what .rar is we should either switch to zip (xp has the ability to unzip that without winzip) or include a help file. But for now, we should wait 1-2 weeks to see if all goes well with everything else (trackers and other torrents), then we should make one final tracker.Nominaladversary 13:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Um link is broken, the one for the direct torrent, I was just sent the torrent and I shall host, thanks Philip Small for the email. right here is a link.

Wikimania
Hi, I'm describing the status of Wikipedia 1.0 at the Wikimania conference on Friday: I would like to let people know how this Torrent project stands. Can you give me a fairly basic description of where things are right now, and where things are going? Please forgive me that I'm not familiar with all the technical terms - seeds, trackers etc.! If you're going to be there, please let me know so I can meet you. Thanks, Walkerma 04:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia 1.0: Offline releases of the English language Wikipedia
 * One seeder's view - The torrent project hinges on three fundamentals:
 * Demand for torrent-channel wikipedia content,
 * Availability of the content in that form, and
 * Technical capability to make it happen.
 * Demand is high. Initial skepticism as to whether there is demand for a .torrent distribution channel for Wikipedia has been answered. Both of the torrents created (wpcd.zip and the equivalent, very recent, .rar file) experienced immediate and persistent demand when posted. A falloff in apparent demand for wpcd.zip.torrent occurred 4 weeks after uploading due to the initial tracker going offline (a valuable lesson). Demand for the German Wikipedia is very healthy after 9 months.
 * Availability is critical and is achieveable. Availability of torrent content is measured in the number of complete and unique copies of the content that are accessable at a point in time. The .torrent distribution channel depends on seeders willing to allocate file storage, maintain content and connection.  It is normal for seeders to lose interest in maintaing content over time and availability erodes as a result. I see that the 7.5 Gig German Wikipedia iso (an iso file is like a photograph of the file taken from the perspective of the DVD or harddrive) has an availability on August 2, 2006 ranging from 4 to 12. After 9 months, this demonstrates the persistence of seeder interest in maintaining this content.
 * Technical capability. The project participants enthusiastically look forward to attracting new members with a higher level of technical understanding. I hope your presentation goes well! -- Paleorthid 19:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That's perfect! Thank you so much for making the situation very clear, and it sounds very positive too!  I hope we can have a new collection (Version 0.5) ready to release by Torrent by late autumn. Thanks, Walkerma 23:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia DVD 3.3
Today I came across two high-availability (6.5 and 2.5: >1 availability is good) torrents of Wikipedia iso files, one with images (7.5 Gig), one without (2.48 Gig). They are dated December 9, 2005. The torrents are available from BlogLoads.de, and linked to byisoHunt. TorrentBox is also tracking the torrent for the larger iso, but the BlogLoads.de tracker has the availability. I assume these are the German language versions of Wikipedia mentioned in Wikipedia 1.0: Offline releases of the English language Wikipedia. -- Paleorthid 18:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For an English language description see German_Wikipedia, and the main German page is de:Wikipedia:WP_1.0. Their approach is different - they in effect started with all of Wikipedia and removed bad stuff, we at en are starting from nothing and adding the good stuff. Walkerma 18:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This will also debut on the project page, and I will place an announcement if this gets bigger. Nominaladversary 19:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia TomeRaider Database Torrent
See TomeRaider database: "Several Wikipedias are available in TomeRaider format for offline browsing on a handheld (Pocket PC, Palm OS or EPOC) or a Microsoft Windows PC." Someone has created a torrent based on this. -- Paleorthid 22:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: The 2005 German Wikipedia DVD includes redundant TomeRaider format version of the content. -- Paleorthid 22:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This torrent is coming along well, I will make a post on the front page (and seperate section) in a couple of days. It is healthy! Nominaladversary 19:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Palm
Also, is there a Palm version of Wikipedia? Palm users should be able to have wikipedia as well. Let's torrent-it-up. Nominaladversary 19:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Emule Link for the CD
ed2k://|file|wpcd.zip|183653401|8C028629BF8D98E02DFAF944214B8D48|h=RW7AF4SXOVMOAYR5DLGX4DQQKQECKCCG|/

Please share this too if you want! --Mattwj2002 10:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * ooh, sweet ed2k link. Thanks Mattwj2002, great Idea to make one of these. Except...haha, this is a torrent meathod to distribute the CD, but well, we can expand to edonkey (or emule) style of distribution, in face I think we should. Well, see how this goes with everyone else for a week or 2, and then we'll post it on the main page as another meathod. we'll need a rar version too. So I'm thinking if this works out, we'll need an entire seperate section just for ed2k distribution. I'm actually familiar with this style...too bad d/ls dont go continously though. Time will tell. Its everyone's choice to join in with this or not. Time will tell! Nominaladversary 03:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Certainly support listing ed2k links. If need to reseed, ed2k is handy. -- Paleorthid 16:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There are four large (0.6 to 2.8 GB) wikipedia-content files available through eMule that would benefit from .torrent distribution. Three are concatenated .rar parts of the German "big iso". The fourth is wpcdiso.iso which I expect to be the same content as wpcd.zip. Will check if it is torrent-worthy after it finishes downloading. Slow. Could be a few days before it finishes. -- Paleorthid 16:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I wonder why d/ls on eMule just don't keep on going. It also depends on how many uploaders, I think we should take every torrent we have now and remake it the same exact way, so nothing will change, however we should ad file hashes and e2dk links. We are also going to need every torrent in one place, if anyone wants make a list that would be nice :D. The main advantage a e2dk link would have to a .torrent distribution is that you do not have to worry about using up bandwith or configuring your router. I will make the announcement (to the wiki community and on the project page of the e2dk link that prevails to have the most uploaders (.rar format or .zip). Hopefully this will attract more users to come check out the project and spread the word. I'll see if there are any places where you just post of e2dk links. Paleorthid, if you could give us the links for the other big files, that would be great. I'm going to leave eMule open and help uploading the .zip version of wpcd once it downloads. And yes, thanks for your help Paleorthid.

Nominaladversary 19:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Right now I am in the process of downloading the rar version of the CD. Once I have that file, I'll add the emule link for the file.  I would also enjoy a link to those four big files. Does anyone by chance have a regular link to the rar version of the CD?  It would allow me to the file to emule faster. --Mattwj2002 20:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, there is no link to .rar version, just the torrent. Nominaladversary 01:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Here are some additional emule links for some of the other files:

ed2k://|file|WP_EN_(P)PC_TXT_1GB.tr3|950952036|18669793443AA96DBEFFD1CA5B3A3E4B|h=PQ6BS6S2XVW4ROGQDRA7WKFBOF7EN4XW|/
 * Any idea what this tr3 file is? -- Paleorthid 13:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

ed2k://|file|2006.Wikipedia.CD.Selection.rar|181678692|CA88E5B94068CCC0010FEC8477D5E720|h=Z36DBTFSCC5B7KY3R5ALPDAKOSLTBK32|/
 * From the first look at the file name "WP_EN_(P)PC" it seems that it is a Pocket PC file with "TXT" just meaning its all text, and then finally its 1 GB. Upon further research "tr3" stands for "TomeRaider 3", which is a format for Pocket PCs. Nominaladversary 14:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

List of WPCD/DVD torrents, trackers, and ed2k
I got organized here, making a list of torrents, trackers, and ed2k info. Also I made an iso from the wpcd.zip, got an ed2k for the iso, made a torrent and uploaded it. I am seeding it and will mail the torrent to NominalAdversary. I have laid out some observations about a favored approach as to what announce urls to include in created torrents. It is in line with what NominalAdversary aka Seth has figured out already: stuff the torrent with diverse announce urls to make up for the fact that individually, announce urls seem prone to getting stale or going offline. Enjoy. -- Paleorthid 07:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Paleorthid delivers! Thanks, and many thanks for your organized list of what we have. I think we might have to do a remake of the wpcd.zip.torrent. Thanks again, this cleared things up! Nominaladversary 14:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Keeping Wikipedia out of hot water
The following private trackers prohibit uploading their torrents to other trackers:
 * BitThailand Says here Do not upload our torrents to other trackers!
 * btCyberstorm Says here We are a closed, limited-membership community. Only registered users can use the TB tracker. Posting our torrents on other trackers is useless, since most people who attempt to download them will be unable to connect with us. This generates a lot of frustration and bad-will against us at Cyberstorm, and will therefore not be tolerated. Complaints from other sites' administrative staff about our torrents being posted on their sites will result in the banning of the users responsible.

Do not upload our torrents to other trackers! and this generates a lot of frustration and bad-will means we have been in error to include bitThailand and Cyberstorm announce urls in the initial two wpcd.zip.torrents that WP torrent project prepared. This requires a change in behavior on our part. -- Paleorthid 07:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Project Changes
The Project Page is going to need a change, we're going to have to divide it up between anything thats German and then the WPCD release. Ontop of that we will have to subdivide each of them into their appropriate files. I think, we should create a subpage for WPCD release and German releases, because the Project Page is getting long and will continue to grow. The PocketPC release will also have its own page, but if there is a PDA version--that will be on the same page as the PocketPC. The talk pages of each seperate release will hold "questions/comments/problems" this way the Project Talk Page will not get cluttered and we won't have that incident where we really don't know which ed2k and torrent files we have or dont have. Continuing, on each individual release page the divisions will occur for each seperate file, and the possible means to get them (torrent or e2dk link) undeneath. Finally, since we're not just covering the torrent distribution anymore I think we need to change our name from Torrent Project to something else. Distribution Project perhaps, but then it would seem as if we covered handing out cds and an actual encyclopedia. Open for suggestions, lots of suggestions.... Nominaladversary 14:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, another thing, Paleorthid's list helps a lot with this.

Paleorthid's suggestions
-- 22:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Use the WikiProject or WikiProject (short) template to restructure the content.
 * See WikiProject/Best_practices to prompt ideas on writing content and attracting participants. for example a notice to attract participants on Talk:BitTorrent came to me when looking here.
 * Attracting and organizing full time seeders is a high priority of the project.
 * Treat German products as a related collaboration. However, we do need to track German (and other) torrents/ed2k material to avoid confusion.  Case-in-point is the 0.67 GB wpcdiso.iso available through ed2k - it looks to be a German deal, but I won't know until it finishes downloading. The file name means it could be confused as the same conten t as wpcd.zip.
 * Separate treatment of Version 1.0 and SOS' WPCD.
 * I prefer to keep the Torrent focus (regardless of how we name the project) - the huge file sizes involved with DVD content puts ed2k distribution into a supportive, secondary role.
 * I also see the need to break into separate project pages for SOS-WPCD, 0.5, and 1.0 (and themed collections that are bound to pop up). My preference would be to keep the current project page as a rallying point for full-time seeders, and have subpages for each product with tracker and announce urls:
 * Move Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Torrent_Project to a location independent of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team like WikiProject Torrent Distribution.
 * Create subpages for each product and more detailed info. If we didn't move the project, they would link like so:
 * 1) Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Torrent_Project/Torrent posters and trackers using content from from here.
 * 2) Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Torrent_Project/2006 Wikipedia CD selection
 * 3) Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Torrent_Project/Version 0.5
 * 4) Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Torrent_Project/Version 1.0
 * 5) Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Torrent_Project/TomeRaider


 * Yes, this works out better, I won't move the project, but I'll figure out how to change the name of it, also I'll make the subpages right away and will use the mini template on the project page. Nominaladversary 14:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm done. The Version 1.0 release is the 2006 release, so i left it at that. I put the 0.5 release as inactive, because we don't have anything on it. German DVD is set as a collaboration,Tome raider is 'will update', i will. I extended the help. I think we'll need to make somethings a bit clearer though. Nominaladversary 15:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

3 versions of version one?
Help me out here. There are 3 sub versions of Version 1.0, maybe? The impact on this project is that, because these are not identical content, each will have different file names, torrents, ed2ks. -- Paleorthid 17:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) 2006 Wikipedia CD selection (has SOS Children's content) - external to Wikipedia, complete.
 * 2) Version 1.0/Test Version - in the works. Articles tagged WPCD. Also a CD-sized collection. (note: this is different than Version_0.5, which is similarly referred to as a test release).
 * 3) Version 1.0 - Proceeds from test version. Potential to be substantially different. Nominations yet to be opened but articles would be tagged V1.0 nom. Size undetermined but potentially larger than a CD-sized collection.

Lulu
I just saw this Lulu website and it says it is self publishing. I just registered there, its free, and im hoping this can be the start of a Paper (encyclopedia) distribution (our new name can say it all!) and/or a cd one too. Lulu Website Nominaladversary 19:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If we can spend money, or if people want to, its $5.50 for a cd. This is great! They can even order a dvd, or we can also make a book, and they'll find the cost for it and whoever wants it can buy it.

Nominaladversary 19:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm back again, this is actually, pretty cool, and i think we can make it happen. We can make a data CD...you guys should really look into this. Nominaladversary 19:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nvm...kill the idea. Nominaladversary 23:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)