Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Torrent Project/Archive 4

random ed2k stuff
I think its possible to actually make the ed2k link a link that will open up in eDonkey2000 or eMule when clicked, im gonna try. Nominaladversary 18:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Not doing too well
The wpcd.zip and .rar aren't doing too well...but the .iso is great. Anyone have an idea. Nominaladversary 12:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Difficult to compare, but the iso was the cleanest, and most recent implementation. The rar was clean but far fewer trackers than the iso. I am aware of only one tracker (seedleach) for the rar.  The iso has that, plus phogotorrents, torrentbox, and the pirate bay.  The zip seems weaker than the rar, could could be a combination of age, turbulent implementation of torrent.  The zip and rar seem weaker than iso possibly because the iso format is considered by some to be more trustworthy than zip or rar. On eMule, the opposite relationship shows up, with demand being zip>rar>iso. Here the larger iso file size/download time appears to have more effect on P2P demand than in a torrent environment.  My US$0.02 worth. -- Paleorthid 20:30, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wooh, back from vacation. Anyway, there isn't much news or anything new going on. If anyone feels like it throw the files on limewire. We can't do anything about the status about any of the torrents, if people want to seed, they'll seed. All the torrents work, however in order for our goal to be reached (basically have users download the file this way...it should be faster), we'll need a lot more seeders. If you just look at OpenOffice, their releases are torrent based and have 50 seeders on standby to upload. I should be able to help out with the torrent uploading and edonkey uploading in the near future. Nominaladversary 22:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The aim of the project...
...if I am correct, is to distribute wikipedia over bittorrent? Is that individual articles, or everything on wikipedia? Whatever it is, it sounds like a good idea. Where do I sign up? Ultra Loser 02:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It is either specific collections of articles or, in the case of the TomeWriter file type - potentially the whole of wikipedia without the illus. Obviously, our original focus is to distribute Version 1.0. This Torrent project is aimed at distribution versus preparation. We need to build a core group of seeders in anticipation of the release of versions 0.5, 1.0, test versions and other versions yet-to-be-designated. (Version 0.7 anyone?) Sign up here: we can definitely use your help. -- Paleorthid 16:52, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I second that. Our number 1 focus is bittorrent distribution, but we need more demand, only then can we increase our supply. I'm going to try to provide two sources for each file on bittorrent, and I wil eventually have to drop one source, but be able ot go full time 24/7 ed2k distribution. We need help!! 72.68.63.9 03:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry that was me up there ^ Nominaladversary 21:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
Folks, I am putting together some tools at User:Wikiwizzy/CDTools for assembling a CD. I have a problem with pictures - my connection here in South Africa is not even close to what is required to get the picture dump. Does anyone here have the full dump on a Linux/Unix machine ? At Wikipedia Talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team I am asking for help on another 18529 images - or rather, thumbnailed versions of them, that will probably run to about 400Meg - manageable for me. If I were to send you a simple shell script, could someone run it, and send me the resulting tarball ? Wizzy&hellip; &#9742;   09:56, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, well I have some sort of idea what you're talking. I know this guy, I'll get back to you in a day or two. Nominaladversary 01:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I have no idea how to run a script on my Linux machine. Um there are a lot of things I still can't do on linux. However, I must say a picture dump compressed in tarball of all the images will be more than 400mb, it just seems like it would be over. I'm sure there is someone who can help you. But if you want, I could try, somehow using the script, so email me at nominaladversary_AT_gmail.com . Besides that, just post at forums. Nominaladversary 21:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It is not all the pictures I want - just those from User:BozMo/wpcd2, and they will all be thumbnailed. Wizzy&hellip; &#9742;   07:32, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Running a script on linux is easy. You run chmod a+x name_of_script then ./name_of_script. I just don't have the picture dump, so I can't do it.  Ultra-Loser  Talk / Contributions 00:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikiwizzy, i never got the script? Um...I'm confused. Nominaladversary 23:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a linux server (running ubuntu) that I could perhaps get you an SSH acocount for, and you could use it to get the dump if you wish. Let me know if this is worth it and I'll get an account set up for you. 48v 23:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a linux server that is being used to run scripts on WP dumps, where you could run your own scripts as well (and find others to work with); see also WikiProject Wikidemia/Quant. Let me know -- +sj + 02:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Quick notice
I'm sure you guys have seen, but if you haven't. Download links for torrents are down, except for the googlepages one. Um, some of the torrent sites like to move the page and...therefore the torrents appear to be "Non existant". Or some places change the direct d/l link to the info page. This won't be a problem for most people, but it still will be one. Nominaladversary 01:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As said here: "Trackers are the primary reason for a damaged BitTorrent swarm". I didn't put any effort to maintaining the tracker links, re-loading dropped torrents, etc. after August 9 2006. That was not good, and it had more of an impact than I anticipated. -- Paleorthid 17:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

GUYS! The aim of this project was to make an alternate download of the wikipedia cd. Technically, yeah we did, but torrents make downloads go faster. Yeah yeah, i know we have about 5 uploaders, so a little bit of more word spreading. We can't really say "download the cd using a torrent" until we have a definte amount of people uploading to make the file d/l faster than....say 120 kbps? Nominaladversary 01:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * We can ask for seeders from within WP - I think the Editorial Team-ers are candidates for this and should be approached.
 * We can ask for seeders from outside WP in various ways -
 * Noting the need for seeders in the various torrent upload posts.
 * Packaging the torrent with a text file with a request for seeders to join WikiPedia and this project. Private trackers often require a similar approach to warn folks of private tracker requirements for participation, and post methods for doing this. We would piggy-back onto these requirements, assuming this is acceptable to the private tracker.
 * The CD/DVD could include a similar message, perhaps in a readme file, but the Editorial Team would need to approached and process a request. -- Paleorthid 17:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Approaching the rest of the Editorial Team would work, and another news update on the community when Version 0.5 and WPCD2 releases. Nominaladversary 21:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I know i know, everyone has been doing a lot of work on this already, so i guess we just need more people? I have a question, if someoen had a server, or rented one, or whatever---i dont know, they bought hosting and stuff, is it possible to have that server be multiple seeders? thanks. Nominaladversary 01:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know if this will help, but there will be two new offline releases coming ready in the next month or so - WPCD2 (about 5000 articles) and Version 0.5 (about 1700 articles). Hopefully these releases will heighten interest in this project as well. Walkerma 02:45, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * About the 1-server-to-many-seeder thought: the BitTorrent protocol makes that a low reward option. But about the dedicated server - any ideas on how to approach Wikipedia for a bit of server space? Maybe we could use an admin, even a bureaucrat, on the project to help us flesh out this idea. -- Paleorthid 17:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * In response to Walkerma, well, the only thing we can do, is pretty much what you want us to do with all the files. We can start uploading both of the new releases as soon as they come out. Nominaladversary 20:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Project impact assessment
I went through my personal seeder/leacher stats from μTorrent and see that I passed along the equivalent of 70 copies of the 2006 Wikipedia CD selection in its various forms (zip:7-rar:13-iso:50). I probably contributed another 20 copies using eMule (ed2k and Kad Network). I figure another 2 participants did a similar volume. Multiply that by another 2 to 20, my gut feeling based on the swarm size I was looking at through my knothole, and I estimate between 540 and 5,400 uploads sparked by this project in a period of weeks. If we knew then what we know now, we could have multiplied that spread by another 5-10X. This compares to 27,000 downloads times xx copies (!) of the wpcd.zip file directly from the originating site over a period of months. Admittedly that is a pretty loose and simplistic metric to apply to what we did, but it is clearly encouraging at many levels. -- revised Paleorthid 14:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If anyone wanted to know, the avg speed on emule is 120 kbps for the wpcd.zip. However, there is no .rar or .iso support of the file on the network. Its alright, zip is more common. Good job you guys. Nominaladversary 02:46, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Palm version of 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection
Wikiwizzy has an ftp link to a Palm version of 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection. WikiWizzy is the creator (is that the right term?) and is OK with the project distributing it. I'll note my progress on an active project page. - Paleorthid 16:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment
Um, I think .rar version of the wpcd has died, or is close to death. I can repack the zip version using winrar and put it up on emule. I can't use azureus right now, so yeah. I'm gonna try to put the wpcd.rar somewhere on the web to download and then seed (not leech then download), so you can use your browser to download, you get the idea. Nominaladversary 03:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I take half of that back, its dead on the torrent network, not emule. Nominaladversary 03:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Version confusion
I hope we can be more attuned to accurate version naming the next go-around. I get previously had heartburn over our project continuing to imply here that the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection (wpcd.zip) is equivalent to the far in the future DVD-sized Version 1.0 Release. Now that WPCD2 is about to come out, let's be sure not to similarly equate it inaccurately it with version 0.5. -- Paleorthid 18:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Clarifying information:
 * WPCD is synonymous with 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection and the wpcd.zip file available from here. Like WPCD2, it is associated with Category:Wikipedia_CD_Selection.
 * 1) Wikipedia_talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Archive_7 (April 2006): WPCD was referred to as "2006 Wikipedia CD Selection".
 * 2) Release Version Nominations: Refers to WPCD as a "previous offline release"..."Test Version, 2000 articles, released in January 2006."
 * Category:Wikipedia CD Selection confirms WPCD referred to as "2006 Wikipedia CD Selection".
 * 1) Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Test Version: about WPCD: BozMo's group has already released a version with 2000 articles and some level of organized quality control and standards, see browsable CD edition & Download Wikipedia CD
 * WPCD2 is associated with WPCD, and Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Test Version. Like WPCD, it is associated with Category:Wikipedia_CD_Selection.
 * 1) Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Test Version: about WPCD2: The current aim is to extend the list of 2000 articles to around 5000 articles for a second release toward the end of the year. Help selecting articles which are suitable would be appreciated. This may merge with Version 0.5 (discussion underway). ... Pages which are included or candidates for the next version can be added by anyone by adding the talk page to Category:Wikipedia_CD_Selection or tagging.

Revised -- Paleorthid 23:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Revised -- 00:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Category:Wikipedia CD Selection: refers to WPCD2 as the next version of 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection.
 * 1) Version 1.0 Editorial Team: Refers twice to WPCD2 as the test version and a subproject of Version 1.0.
 * 2) Version 0.5 Nominations: WPCD2 is being referred to as "the Test Version sponsored by BozMo and an external organization".
 * The Version 0.5 Release of Wikipedia is termed a test release. The term "release" distinguishes it consistently, albeit weakly, from the test version above. It is associated with 0.5 nom.
 * 1) Version 1.0 Editorial Team: Version 0.5 is a test release that will operate in tandem with Version 1.0, and help pave the way.
 * 2) Version 0.5 and Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Criteria: Version 0.5 is a test release.
 * 3) Release Version Nominations: Refers to Ver 0.5 as one of two "previous offline releases"...Version 0.5 (CD not yet released, but general nominations now closed).

For more information, see ver 0.5 subpages, listed here. -- Paleorthid 20:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, people use all sorts of different names for the same thing, the names were often picked without reference to other projects! Also, things have grown organically as usual.  In summary we have four versions being talked about, only the first of which has been released as yet.
 * Jan 2006: WPCD aka "2006 Wikipedia CD Selection" aka BozMo's CD aka First SOS Children's CD. 2011 articles.
 * Nov/Dec 2006 Version 0.5. 1960 articles.
 * ~ Dec 2006 WPCD2 aka BozMo's second CD aka Second SOS Children's CD. ~5000 articles.
 * Ongoing: "Release Version" will be a rolling set of pages, covering whatever version comes next.
 * WPCD and WPCD2 are part of the "Test versions" project coordinated by BozMo, whereas the other releases are in effect organized as part of the entire project. Once Version 0.5 is completed (very soon!), we will be rewriting the template (see top right of this page). The only source of confusion is that we may have to release one version of 0.5 without the offline reader and another with the offline reader - I'll keep you posted on that.  I also plan to spend my Christmas/New Year break archiving organising the Wikipedia 1.0 pages & projects and writing a site map - I hope that will make everything very clear.  Funny to think we only had two pages 15 months ago!


 * That helps. Especially the rolling release bit. Understandable once you get into it, and wonderfully dynamic getting there. -- Paleorthid 00:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you think it would be a good idea to ask BozMo to rename his project "Children's CD project" or something like that? Or would that just confuse you even more? Thanks for your patience! Walkerma 21:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That works well. "Childrens" is an excellent distinction. -- Paleorthid 00:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

More informative file names
A consistent naming approach would group project content together in search results. This wasn't an issue in 2005. Wikipedia content files have proliferated on P2P content forums and .torrent index sites. Often the file name is the only clue as to content.

The right file name has legs in the wild. Each release version file (including BozMo's releases) would proliferate more efficiently with a uniform naming convention. Here is one approach:
 * Wikipedia as a complete word, followed by
 * (en) for english, followed by
 * Project and/or release version: Childrens CD or Ver 2.0 DVD, followed by
 * the release date (year/month) as in JAN06 or 2006-01.
 * More distinction if necessary as in plus reader or no images
 * File format, obviously. So far we have zip, rar, iso, pdb, and tr3.

Perhaps BozMo must stick to 8+3 limits considering his target audience (I don't know) but we should take (and have taken) the opportunity to rename files for the benefit of our audience. The wpcd.zip file was renamed 2006_Wikipedia_CD_Selection.zip to good effect. Best would be for the files to come to the torrent subproject with little need for renaming. -- Paleorthid 00:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, thanks for your excellent analysis! Don't blame BozMo for all the names, a lot of these names were informal names invented and thrown around by the 1.0 team (including myself), and sometimes these informal names turned into page names.  A bit like my field, organic chemistry, where students go nuts trying to understand all the proliferation of strange & illogical names for organic compounds! I'll try and get wider comments on your proposal. Walkerma 04:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks and zero blame intended. Hats off to BozMo for proof of concept. with heart. -- Paleorthid 06:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll take a bit of blame anyway: I went off and did it in frustration at zero progress in the first year of the other project. I am relaxed either way. I was intending to call the next one the 2007 wikipedia CD selection but I don't mind. There is another children's wikipedia project at meta though. I think perhaps our wpcd2 and version 0.7 should merge soon anyway, perhaps after the next edition. I am wondering about moving Wikipedia-CD/Download to 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection since we have now got over 30,000 downloads and it probably should be in main space.--BozMo talk 07:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * To be clear if you want me to rename everything 2006 Wikipedia Children's CD and 2007 Wikipedia Children's CD I am happy especially if someone will help me go through all the pages and file names. Perhaps I better wait on moving it to namespace until its clear. --BozMo talk 12:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As for BozMo's release, this is clear, he will stick with "The date" Wikipedia CD Selection.
 * As for the 1.0 releases by the 1.0 team, they should be entitled, Wikipedia release Version 0.5, Wikipedia release Version 0.7 and so on as to keep from having overlapping for the time being (especially with the word Release Version which could mean any release WP makes whether it be BozMo's, the 1.0 teams or anybody else). Lincher 14:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

New Seed/Tracker
I've put the wpcd.zip file up on bittorrent.com - http://www.bittorrent.com/users/jpettitt/torrents/779c3b64448f0b438a80cad8d202cec84f4e0bf5/ the .torrent has the bittorrent http extension s othat it will fallback to the sosmedia eb site if there are no seeds (if your client supports http seeds). I also seeded it on seeder03.bittorrent.com which has a gigabit connection so there should be n o problem downloading it. Trapper 07:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I added your bittorrent link to the list of sources for wpcd.zip torrents. Could you explain a little bit about the "fallback to the SOS media site if no seeds" - that is a new feature to me. -- Paleorthid 20:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Found my answer in Wikipedia: BitTorrent -- Paleorthid 20:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This TorrentFreak post highlights the above torrent. Much appreciated, and has resulted in a big jump in the swarm size. But note that the blog post states "The CD is currently at release 1.0". This is similar to what JPettitt/Trapper has posted at BitTorrent.com. This is due to the ambiguous information we had posted on this Project site. My apologies for not dealing with it sooner. I have posted a comment to the TorrentFreak post. -- 20:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, sweet, we got in the press! The story was also dugg.  Ultra-Loser [ T  ] [  C  ]  02:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Dugg story
The story on dugg is generating feedback. There is much support for a DVD-sized product and one person comments on the torrent dl speed:
 * "a dvd iso of the english version would be very nice...."
 * Daveydweeb replies that a DVD-sized volume is a much larger task than a CD-sized volume, invites folks: "If you want a DVD, why not help them out?"
 * "that would be nice to have at my school. My frustration would no longer be with the slow internet connection, but with the shitty processors. Woohoo!"
 * "wow on the download speed, 1.1MB/s from one seed behind University firewall!"
 * Trapper said it was going to be fast. -- Paleorthid 21:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

-- Paleorthid 21:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "They have it (DVD) for the german wikipedia already (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download) and the one for english wikipedia is supposedly in the pipeline."
 * Well, when I checked back here today, I actually said Holy ****, in a very good, surprised manner. Everything thats been going on is amazing. All of the news is just great; the entire thing is amazing. Thanks. It's all very very awesome. 'Good job' I suppose but it doesn't quite cover it. Amazing job.Nominaladversary 00:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * you're welcome - We've turned on the public interface to publishing on the bittorrent.com site so anybody can sign up for an account, feed it a url and the site will generate a torrent from the file at that url - feel free to add future revisions of the project. Trapper 17:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

wpcd.rar problems
I'm not sure if this is happening to other people, but, when I try to seed wpcd.rar, it allocates and then...doesn't seed. It gets to a certain percentage and then leeches itself. Its as if the .rar version i have is different than the one the torrent wants. Of course I checked if the .rar file was corrupt--it wasn't. We don't have any seeders for the .rar file, just around 6 leechers. Is anyone else having the same problem(s)? Another note: After the failure of seeding, I repacked the zip version of wpcd. I tried seeding-- same error --. I repacked it using winzip and winrar, on normal compression. The file size is the same as the torrent suggests. If anyone can seed it, please post. If it indeed doesn't work anymore, we can just repack and release the torrent, unless anyone else has a better idea? Nominaladversary 01:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Problem Fixed. I updated my winzip and winrar. Repacked, and renamed. Now I am uploading full time. I will try to post the actual file on the web somewhere. Nominaladversary 01:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * One last update--now super seeding. And will go to normal seeding once there is one more seeder. Also, those who are using the ED2K network to help, change your wpcd.rar file to '2006 Wikipedia CD Selection', you can leave off the '.rar' extension. Same goes for anyone else having the torrent problems for this file. Nominaladversary 01:49, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I lied, another update. The tracker hates me: 'http://seedleech.com/announce.php'. I guess I could use the internal tracker, but that would require the leecher(s) to add the url: 'http://72.68.33.82:6969/announce'. I have the same person as before swarmed, but...not connecting. I'm leaving Azureus on as well as super-seeding. Will report back with a file d/l link...it may be split. Nominaladversary 03:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a different (works!) rar.torrent from here from playing around last August. I've been seeding it and it's been increasingly active. I'll update our listing accordingly. -- Paleorthid 03:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'll seed using this. Nominaladversary 21:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No one wants to download. Cry[ing]. Nominaladversary 00:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)