Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/People

Introduction
The purpose of this discussion page is to select 50,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles.

Any article currently on this list may be challenged. The discussion is open to the following rules:

The following link represent all current Level 5 Vital articles that are classified as people:

Add either Thomas A. Dorsey, The Dixie Hummingbirds, or Blind Willie Johnson
I think we can squeeze one more gospel act on here, but unfortunately I’m not sure which of these three I want to add.

My first option was Thomas A Dorsey. I have frequently heard of him referred to as the Father of Gospel Music. Our article claims that he’s written 3,000 songs, including “Peace in the Valley” and “Take My Hand, Precious Lord”, the latter being the favorite song of. Note however that he is rated low-importance on the WikiProject Christian music. (Although he’s also conversely rated as Top-importance on the WikiProject African diaspora.)

My next option is The Dixie Hummingbirds. Rated high-importance on the WikiProject Christian music, they are probably the most well-known jubilee quartet. They have inspired and, backed  in his song “Loves Me Like a Rock”, and their rendition of  is in the Grammy Hall of Fame.

My third option is Blind Willie Johnson. So, he’s a bit of a curveball; I know to a lot of people, Johnson is a blues musician first and foremost. I’m advocating him because unlike his fellow Texan Blind Lemon Jefferson, all of Johnson’s records had a religious bent to them. His songs include “In My Time of Dying”, “It’s Nobody’s Fault but Mine”, “John the Revelator”, and the one that went to outer space on the Voyager “Dark Was the Night, Cold Was the Ground”.


 * Support Thomas A. Dorsey
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:18, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 21:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 12:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support The Dixie Hummingbirds


 * Support Blind Willie Johnson (please indicate if you want to put him in the R&B section)
 * 1) Probably under R&B as he does seems to be more frequently described as such Iostn (talk) 21:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 05:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 12:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add The Specials
Leading drivers of second-wave ska. Their label 2 Tone Records is the namesake of the Two-tone music genre.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3)  49p (talk) 05:25, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Allen Klein
An extremely controversial manager. Associated with, , and.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) "one of the most powerful individuals in the music industry during his era" Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Norman Granz
Founder of Verve Records and manager of.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 11:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) "the most successful impresario in the history of jazz" Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Sam Gilliam
He seems somewhat important. I am not an art scholar.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) 3 interwikis suggest that he was not influential.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 11:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per aboveMakkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Add Yigal Amir
Assassinated, who had signed the in an attempt to end the Israel-Palestine conflict, and is arguably responsible for derailing the peace process and preventing a two-state solution as a result.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 00:29, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap for D. F. Malan
C.R. Swart was the first State President of South Africa after South Africa became a Republic - which was at the time, only a ceremonial position, as the actual head of government was the Prime Minister, which is highlighted by him also being the last Governor-General (represenative to the British crown), also a ceremonial position. D. F. Malan, on the other hand, is responsible for being the first prime minister to implement (under that name, as opposed to the older forms of segregation present in South Africa) and also marked the start of over 40 years of continuous National Party rule. The only caveat is that he is less well-known for his role in constructing apartheid than his successor,.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom EleniXDD  ※  Talk  05:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap Leopoldo Galtieri for Javier Milei
There's little of note in Galtieri's biography besides the Falklands War, which is already a vital article, so there would be overlap. Milei, the current president of Argentina, got international notice as part of the recent international trend of right-wing leaders. Cambalachero (talk) 16:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) As nominator Cambalachero (talk) 16:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) We now subject world leaders to the "head of lettuce" test.  Revisit this fall when he has served a year.  pbp  17:06, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Move to politicians and leaders
Briefly led a transitional military government in 1996, before returning to (electoral) politics and becoming elected president in 2018. Definitely only really seems notable as a politician.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:18, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
If he was vital, then he should be under politicians. But even so, there's very little here to assert vitality.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 5)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Presumably included for founding the South African Special Forces - which isn't a VA. There's nothing else here that indicates vitality.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 5)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move to politicians and leader
This entry was the original reason I made these proposals - the founding president of Mozambique, who served for over ten years, is listed here for his involvement in the. It seems fairly obvious he is much more well-known as a national "founding father" than a soldier or general.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 5)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move to politicians and leaders
President of Sierra Leone for six and a half years.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move to politicians and leaders
Head of state of Sierra Leone for four years.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move to politicians and leaders
De facto president of Argentina for 2.5 years, and only really known for that.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move to politicians and leaders
Emir of Afghanistan, not much else to say. He is well-known for leading Afghanistan's troops during the at the same time, but I don't think that supersedes him being Emir.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move to politicians and leaders
Has been one of Indonesia's most prominent politicians since the late 2000s, and is currently president-elect.


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
One of the most important military leaders of the


 * Support
 * 1) Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator. We should add the French Resistance as well Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 20:20, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

General comment
These proposals are testament to what I've been saying for awhile: it's silly to have politicians, military, activists and jurists in four different pots. The lines between the four are just too blurred.  pbp

Remove Sam Bockarie and Issa Sesay
Only five interwikis for Bockarie and only four for Sesay. We have five other VA5 articles to represent the coups and unrest in Sierra Leone  pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove Jan Breytenbach
Relatively minor/obscure figure in South African special forces who happened to write a book. Only six interwikis  pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove James Kabarebe
Only five interwikis
 * Support
 * 1)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove Ras Mengesha Yohannes
Only five interwikis and only 800-odd page views a month. We already have Mikael of Wollo from the Mahdist War
 * Support
 * 1)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove Benjamin Yeaten
Not one interwiki link. Not one.  pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove Samora Yunis
Just one interwiki link  pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1)  pbp  15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Add to Lv 5. activists
For awhile during the Iraq War era, seemed like you'd turn on the radio or TV and you'd always hear what "forces loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr were up to. 44 interwikis.  Could also be added under military or religion <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  21:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  21:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) I was going to say he should be under politicians, but it seems he never held any office, surprisingly. Iostn (talk) 21:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 20:20, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Move the troubadours, trouvères, and Minnesägner to musicians
I feel like these guys should be listed under musicians. Unlike the Greek lyricists like Sappho, we do have some of the original music that their poems were set to. (Admittedly, it's a small "some"—only about 12% according to the troubadours page—and I don't think the people I'm about to request to be moved are among those whose musical compositions survived.) However, I don't know where exactly they should be placed. I personally lean towards putting them under Western art music (either under Medieval and Renaissance composers, or even a new section like how ragtime or soundtrack composers have their own list) but I'm fine putting them in the songwriters section with Carl Michael Bellman and Stephen Foster.

Here are the people I want to move, plus two more that I'm just throwing in because they're either a troubadour, trouvère, or a Minnesinger:


 * 1) (troubadour)
 * 2) (trovère; personally his chivalric romances firmly keeps him in the writers page)
 * 3) (troubadour)
 * 4) (Minnesigner; he seems more important as a poet in general)
 * 5) (trovère)
 * 6) (Minnesigner)
 * 7) (troubadour)


 * Under Western art music (Medieval and Renaissance)
 * 1) Support (except for Chrétien and von Eschenbach). SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support (except for Chrétien and von Eschenbach). Makkool (talk) 11:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator, same exceptions. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Under Western art music (new section)


 * Under songwriters


 * Keep under poets


 * Discuss
 * 1) Chretien is Level 4, so moving him should be decided on the Level 4 talk page. Makkool (talk) 11:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Anton Pannekoek
Managed to be a major figure both in astronomy and Marxist theory, I think he could go in either section in terms of position,


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 21:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) --Thi (talk) 13:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Support addition to astronomy section. Going by Google Scholar results, out of 11,200 total results, he is referenced in relation to astronomy 7,740 times, while he is referenced in relation to Marxism 1,270 times. His influence on astronomy is a lot greater than his influence on Marxism, what with his ideas on council communism being a lot more niche compared to other tendencies. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:24, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove Leochares
Page's pretty bare.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:46, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 01:49, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) While I will admit that stubs are typically less vital, there are exceptions to that, and this sculptor is one. He worked on the, he created the  (should probably be vital judging by its article), and he made several other popular sculptures. He is therefore vital enough to make the list, and you make a better argument for improving his article than removing it from the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * - I'm not convinced that there is indeed enough information on him out there to make a comprehensive biography rather than a stub.  starship .paint  (RUN) 14:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There are some decent results on Google Books and Google Scholar for anyone with the time and resources needed. A bad Brittanica article should not be the deciding factor for someone's vitality. Just because we don't have much in our article or Brittanica's doesn't mean he didn't have lasting importance. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * the onus is on you to prove with links that there is detailed coverage of him, simply asserting is not good enough.  starship .paint  (RUN) 14:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss
 * Moving discussion here for ease of reading. I'll see if I can find some links in a few minutes. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:21, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Although, I will just say that I think that the person is vital even without finding extra sources for expanding the article. He makes valid claims to vitality, and that should be enough. I don't see how article size factors in to it, and there are plenty of better targets for removal. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It is my personal opinion that since the vital article project is intended to establish important articles that should be improved, if there are articles on a person/object that cannot be improved to a high quality because there is simply not enough information about the person/object out there, then we should not list them as vital. You would probably disagree.  starship .paint  (RUN) 15:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think your opinion is valid. I am willing to retract my Oppose for now, since I have other things I care more about. However, I will put this on my to-do list and will propose adding it back to the list if I am able to destub it. Does this work for you? QuicoleJR (talk) 15:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * - what I would be looking for is for someone, anyone to prove that there's enough information out there to satisfy FA requirements (it does not require that the article be updated).  starship .paint  (RUN) 16:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Add Smokey Robinson
For once, I’m going to make an addition proposal. We have on here, but this is definitely a case of a member being vital in their own right. Not only was he the main songwriter and producer for the group (who were called Smokey Robinson and the Miracles from 1965 to 1972), he was also the main songwriter and producer for, the vice president of Motown, and he received his star and  induction before the rest of the group.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:17, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Her article says that she "has been described as 'one of the most important film scholars alive today.'" and that "She was a pioneer of taking Hollywood film seriously as a subject of academic study".


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) One single interwiki usually isn't a great sign. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Move to linguists
He is more a vital to the encyclopedia as the founder of Finnish literary language, than as one of many Protestant reformators in Kingdom of Sweden. Makkool (talk) 18:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Five politicians from the Maldives?
The Maldives are a teeny-tiny country, isn't five leader a bit much? Granted, some served as Monarch, president or Prime Minister for quite awhile, but still, FIVE? <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Remove Abdul Majeed Didi
Stub article with only six interwikis <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 07:10, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * 1) Per Kevinishere15. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

"Didi is recognized a reformer and has been described as 'the father of the modern Maldives' ". Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Remove Mohamed Amin Didi
Ruled a tiny country for less than a year


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Does not seem important enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Steve Albini
Well-known producer known for producing albums from, , , , etc. He recently passed away (a couple hours from this message) but I was surprised to know he wasn't on this list yet despite his contributions. 49p (talk) 19:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC), per nom
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss
 * He is not notable enough as a musician and I am not sure where the bar is for producers. What producers do we have listed?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:52, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * We have "Music producers, songwriters and businesspeople." This list is hard to compare because most of these people are known to be executives, rather than being known as producers/engineers.
 * The ones who are close to Albini that we have are who was "assistant engineer" on Abbey Road and main engineer for The Dark Side of the Moon and known for performing as the Alan Parsons Project.  is a producer known for his work in Yes (band) and is called "the man who invented the eighties" per his page. Other producers we have are, , and  which are all much similar (known for working with well-known artists, except with the case of Tubby where he's more known for popularizing dub music)
 * So I think the bar is either producing well known albums or making a impact on a known genre. I say given Albini's work in albums like Surfer Rosa, In Utero, Pod (The Breeders album), and Rid of Me he seems to fit. A fair argument you can make to not include Albini is most of these artists worked with "extremely" well known artists (Parsons worked with The Beatles and Pink Floyd, which is probably like a tier down from bands like The Pixies or Nirvana (band).) 49p (talk) 00:28, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Nirvana's final album is pretty big, but I am on the fence.-

Swap for Jimmy Greaves
Greaves is the top scorer in the history of English top-tier football, he was apart of England's 66' FIFA World Cup triumph and he his often regarded as one of (if not the best) English domestic player during the 20th Century. Whilst Lineker's career is outstanding, it is a shoulder below that of Greaves' legacy; and if not Greaves, many more modern careers have since surpassed Lineker's. It could be argued that Harry Kane (England's top scorer), Manual Neuer (his generation's greatest keeper), Modrić /Benzema /Iniesta /Kaka or Suárez, all deserve places ahead of Lineker, and the list goes on... Idiosincrático (talk) 22:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) As nominator Idiosincrático (talk) 22:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discuss

Swap for Herbert Chapman
Chapman was one of the most revolutionary English managers during the early 20th century and I was surprised he wasn't already included. He is mostly responsible in England for floodlights at football matches, shirt numbers, physiotherapists in player management and several other traditions and practices. His tenure at both Huddersfield and Arsenal is regarded as one of the finest periods in the history of each club. Chapman's Arsenal team from the early 1930s is still revered as one of the greatest in English football history. Whereas for Allison, I really couldn't tell you much about him, mostly because I simply don't know him; but it is easy to see how Chapman's legacy as a manager dwarfs that of Allisons. Idiosincrático (talk) 07:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator Idiosincrático (talk) 07:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. Phikia (talk) 04:42, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discuss

Add Hassan al-Banna
Founder of the. His ideas shaped the modern discourse on the intersection of Islam and politics.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:34, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move Meir Kahane
Usually I would just do a bold move, but I have no idea where to put him. All I know is I don't feel like his current position (under religious figures) is the best place to put him. Yes, his Zionism was on the religious side and he was an ordained rabbi, but his beliefs at its very core was ultranationalist. Now I personally am in favor of putting him under rebels, but he was elected, and we have been moving those type of guys to politicians. I also get the rationale of placing him under terrorists.


 * To politicians
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)


 * To rebels


 * To terrorists
 * 1) Assuming we even keep terrorists as a subsection (which is inherently controversial and contested), as he is mentioned within the first paragraph alone as having been convicted on terrorism charges, and has an entire section entitled "terrorism and convictions". His term in the Knesset was a pretty small part of his overall career and during that time he arguably lacked institutional influence that others would normally have as he was boycotted by all other members. Iostn (talk) 21:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep under religious figures


 * Discuss

Add Talha ibn 'Ubayd Allah and Sa'id ibn Zayd
To make up for my recent requests, let me advocate for the addition of these guys. There are the only people who were a part of the ten to whom Paradise was promised who are not on here. In comparison (which is admittedly imperfect since the whole ten list is strictly a Sunni thing), we have all twelve Apostles on here, plus Matthais.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Move Ch'oe Ch'i-wŏn
Although we got a lot of reformers on here, their activities are at least tied to their religion. I don't think that's the cause for Ch'oe, especially since during the time he was active, he was a Confucianist, not a Buddhist. I prefer moving him to the politicians page, but since he was apparently a philosopher, I'll leave that option out as well. (We do have people in that page who were government officials.)


 * To politicians
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)


 * To philosophers


 * Keep


 * Discuss

Remove, , and
I hate to advocate against gender parity but for the case of baseball, it just doesn't make sense. Women generally don't play baseball (we list 2 women in the Softball section) and there hasn't been a professional women's baseball league since 1997 (the Ladies League Baseball league which folded after one year due to low fan turnout). The, which both Kurys and Kamenshek were a part of, makes sense at VA5 because it was probably the first professional women's sports league and it is an element of the (American) cultural zeitgeist through the movie A League of Their Own. However, I feel like this is sufficient and their best players don't need to be VA5 as well (both Kurys and Kamenshek have 1 interwiki each). Jackie Mitchell is an even more egregious inclusion. She was signed to a minor league team as a publicity stunt, played in one game where she struck out Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth, was cut from the team a few days later, and never played in the MLB system ever after that. She is effectively a novelty (albeit a very impressive one) and should not be classified as VA5.


 * Support
 * 1) as nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Add Wallace Fard Muhammad
Again, making up for my recent proposals. Considering that the Nation of Islam has its own separate subsection for their figures, we should probably have its founder.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:48, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Seems pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Definitely important as Louis Farrakhan, or Elijah Muhammad. 49p (talk) 16:35, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Baba Farid
Another person to make up for my recent proposals, although he seems to be just as important as a literature figure as he is a religious one, so I'll throw in that option as well. Seems pretty important amongst not just the Muslim population of Punjab, but for Punjabis in general.


 * Support (under Sufism)
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support (under poets)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Not every Pulitzer Prize winner is vital, and this guy does not have much else going for him. Most of his books don't have articles, and there is no indication of lasting influence.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:33, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Add
An influential proponent on Neo-paganism in the public eye. List under Religious figures.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Swap with
Meralda Warren is a local writer from a tiny British Overseas Territory. Her Wikipedia biography tells more about other things she has done than her writing career. On the other hand, Margaret Mahy was an acclaimed children's author from New Zealand with major-award-winning books. Currently we don't list any children's authors from NZ.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support addition per nom. She has won several major awards and written over 100 books. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Oppose removal Her having more importance than just being an author is a point towards keeping, not a reason to remove. Her article does a pretty good job of showing importance, and there are plenty of authors from the U.S. and UK who have nothing going for them besides writing a few somewhat popular books that we can remove first to meet the quota. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Add Donna Haraway
One of the most important feminist scholars of recent decades


 * Support
 * 1) As nom Iostn (talk) 21:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 19:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3)  J  947  ‡ edits 05:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Extremely influential yet controversial animator. He is known primarily creating the cartoon, which is extremely influential to animation. He is also known for his controversies around the show. He's often known as trying to be a "perfectionist" on producing episodes for Ren and Stimpy and pushing the limit on television animation with violence and innuendos. (His article doesn't go deep on it, but read Stimpy's Invention production section for more info) Many animators credit him as a influence so I think he's vital to be here including with the show


 * Add John K.
 * 1) 49p (talk) 22:43, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose John K.
 * 1) I'd list before him, as a more influential example. Makkool (talk) 12:13, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) The subpage where animators go is overquota (although maybe subpage quotas should be abolished too like section quotas were) and I'd rather re-add (which was removed without discussion to fit the section quota).-- Laukku  TheGreit  (Talk•Contribs) 15:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Moving entries from "rebels" to "terrorists"
"Terrorists" is always going to be controversial as a subsection, but as long as its there, it makes sense to list people there if they are described as "terrorist" by their own articles.

I think it used to suffer as a section when there was a subsection quota, which encouraged filling it in quite an arbitrary way to reach a certain number of articles, while others were listed in different places regardless of wherever it made much sense.

For this reason I will propose moving the following articles currently listed with "rebels, revolutionaries and activists":


 * - described as committing "terrorist bombings" in the first sentence alone, and then directlty afterwards described as "one of the most notorious political terrorists of his era".
 * - lede doesn't actually use the word "terrorist", but it still remains strewn throughout the rest of the article, and as he was the second leader of, it doesn't make much sense to separate him from listing-wise.
 * - "A group of his hostages nicknamed him "John" since he was part of a four-person terrorist cell"
 * - "ran a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan"


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Related proposal: Move from "murder" to "terrorism"
I would normally do myself but again, "terrorism" in inherently controversial as a label and ill-defined.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
He is only known for one book series, which had only minor cultural influences and TV/film adaptations that don't even have articles.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Swap: Remove Jamshid bin Abdullah of Zanzibar, add Ali Hassan Mwinyi and Samia Suluhu Hassan
At the present time, Zanzibar has two articles, including Jamshid, who fails the lettuce test of less than a year in office. Its successor nation, Tanzania, has sixty million people but only one article. Mwinyi served as president for 10 years and enacted a series of post-Nyerere reforms. Hassan is the country's first female president. Mwinyi and Hassan have significantly more interwikis than Jamshid. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Leung Chun-ying
As with Tu above, Hong Kong is bloated with six post-1945 leaders, including five post-1997 leaders. Of the leaders of Hong Kong, he seems the least vital. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Don't really see how he's the least vital, he seems to mark an important milestone re: the erosion of Hong Kong's autonomy.


 * Discussion

Massive shift of politicians from early modern to post-classical without consensus
It used to be the split between post-classical and early modern was somewhere between 1400 and 1453. Now it's 1500, meaning quite a few Renaissance figures are listed in post-classical when ANY historian worth his salt would have them in early modern. Dozens, perhaps over 100 figures were moved, and I'm not only concerned about the WP:RANDY aspect of this, I'm also concerned that moving that many figures should have only been done with a consensus. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 17:21, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Who did it?  The Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 20:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It was SailorGardevoir <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 10:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 *  The Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 11:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

It used to be the split between post-classical and early modern was somewhere between 1400 and 1453. - based on what? This should have been noted somewhere on the vital list page. Thing is, Post-classical history says until 1500 CE, and early modern period says it starts about 1500. So what should be the year for the split?  starship .paint  (RUN) 14:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you. If the leaders/politicians page explicitly had a different timeline structure, then by all means revert it. However, so long as we have a generic four period structure as we do for most of the other pages (Ancient, Post-classical, Early modern, and Late modern), we need to stick with what our own articles on those periods state are the years they lasted. And if anyone has an issue with this, please go to this discussion, because I do think we need a clear answer for this. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Add Hun Manet
Cambodia's current leader, I know he hasn't served a full year yet but him being the first new leader in 37 years makes him vital IMO. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) I don't really see why we are priotizing him over other new leaders especially when his accesion doesn't seem to herald any significant change in Cambodia. Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Unlikely to be seen as vital in 20 years' time.  J  947  ‡ edits 05:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove
I have been nominated some articles largely based on being stubs, so let me nominate an article that's actually decent. I'm not really a fan of using the number as a way to determine an article's vitality (I've has come across some articles with single digit interwikis that I feel should have more), but he only has two interwikis, and rateyourmusic does not have a page for him.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4)  J  947  ‡ edits 05:38, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Murderer clean-up
Before subsection quotas were abolished there was a supported proposal to reduce the number of spaces under "Murder, serial killing, mass murder" in favour of those responsible for more societally impactful crimes (such as assassination, crimes against humanity and terrorism). While this was rendered moot by the removal of quotas, I still think the murder section needs to be cleaned up as it has quite a big US bias and also many of the spree killers also have the sprees they were responsible for listed under history, which makes a better case for cleaning up spaces here.

Remove
Aside from anything else, it doesn't even seem clear, nor is there any way to conclusively determine, whether he deliberately caused deaths or not. I suppose EgyptAir Flight 990 could be listed but I'm not sure how much it stands out compared to other plane crashes.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:53, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
is already listed.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap for Virginia Tech shooting
Based on the principle of the vent itself being more important than the person who is solely notable because of it.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Not among the most well-known serial killers. The article does say that "some sources speculate her involvement in as many as 40 murders making her one of the most prolific female serial killers in history", but that is well, speculative.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
is already listed, and he is not known to have been responsible for any other murders.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove and
These two are seemingly only listed for their involvement in a murder case which inspired the writing of, which was influential on the genre. The book is already listed and their actual crime doesn't seem to stand out on a broader level.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk)  — Preceding undated comment added 12:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap for Bath School disaster
Same rationale as Seung-Hui Cho.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
is already listed.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
"considered the first known serial sex murderer of the twentieth century". Other than that doesn't really seem to stand out compared to other serial killers.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove Stephen Paddock
2017 Las Vegas shooting is already listed.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove Jane Toppan
Doesn't stand out compared to other serial killers.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Support Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Pedro López (serial killer)
One of the most prolific serial killers in history, and is second only to on List of serial killers by number of victims.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Pedro Rodrigues Filho
Per his cultural influence in Brazil, and this list needs less US bias. Also inspired the protagonist of.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Initially didn't propose this as I was under the impression it was relatively well-remembered, but the low number of interwikis and pageviews compared to many of the others here indicates otherwise.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:46, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Not that important Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Or just move it to history. I hate to remove an article based on how it fits into this project, but this one just sticks out like a sore thumb being on the people pages. Even the articles based on a group of people don't really resemble what is essentially a statistic page.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 15:03, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Seems way too specific. 49p (talk) 06:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Nehru–Gandhi family and/or remove Kennedy family
The former is clearly more vital than the latter, IMO. A removal may be in order given how both are just glorified lists at the minute, but I reckon more could be written of them.  J 947  ‡ edits 04:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support both


 * Support addition; oppose removal
 * 1) Tentatively, as nom.  J  947  ‡ edits 04:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  12:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Iostn (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support removal; oppose addition


 * Oppose both


 * Discussion

Remove
Article was moved from Woo Bum-kon and rescoped to be event-based and not a biography. It is now no longer fit for its section which is of criminal biographies. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:09, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discussion
 * 1) This just brings up the question: does it really make much difference how the article is framed, if its still focused solely through the lens of its perpertrator (and I'm not sure if that page should've been even moved to start with, if reliable sources are just naming the events strictly through that lens anyway)? For example, if we list a murder case of someone who is only known for being the victim of that particularly murder case, should that be under the victims section? Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Add
My previous removal nominations, as well as the ones still to come, should make enough room to add this woman. She has had a major impact on the genre, having a major role in popularizing the historical romance subgenre and creating a new subgenre of that. 40 of her books currently have their own articles. 24 interwikis, rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Romance and WikiProject Women writers.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Add Budai
AKA The Laughing Buddha. Favorite subject for East Asian artists and the reason why a lot of Westerners picture the founder of Buddhism as a fat Chinese man. (Nominating him here since the general consensus appears to be that he was originally an actual Chinese monk who later got deified.)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Definitely popular but I don't think he's vital enough to be included in the hip-hop section. You could say he popularized the emo rap and soundcloud rap scene but I think that's way too specific to be vital. Juice WRLD or Lil Peep are similar yet we do not include them. Mid importance on Hip-hop and alt music.


 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 05:22, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 10:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:21, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) I think mumble rap is biggish enough to warrant having someone representing the scene. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Oppose. Even though it may not have cross-generational appeal, Soundcloud rap is a significant enough global phenomenon among the younger generations that its most important artist probably deserves a spot here. It even says on his Wikipedia article that, according to a YouGov poll conducted in 2023, a majority of Americans have heard of him. He is also credited with being inspirations for other clear-cut VA5-level rappers  and  and even mainstream pop artist . He is also in the top 20 for all-time artists in digital single sales. That is very impressive for someone who only makes music in a genre that is too specific to be vital. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per Aurangzebra  Vileplume  🍋‍🟩 ( talk ) 01:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment

Remove
Known for creating T-Series (company), which isn't even vital (we don't list any record label as vital AFAIK). Not much argument is made in the article to prove he's vital compared to what we have in his section. We add record label owners like because their actions within the label helped popularize a genre or influenced music heavily. I don't see this in Kumar's article.


 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 05:39, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Founder of the largest record label in the world's most populous country. And FYI,  is vital.
 * 2) Per above. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss
 * Neutral regarding him, but I am planning on nominating some labels down the line. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:17, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Remove
Unknown individual known for movie rips. Extremely popular during the era, but I feel like there are other groups and people known for piracy that aren't included. We don't include Razor 1911 which has been software cracking since 1985 compared to aXXo whose career is from 2005 to 2009.


 * Support
 * 1) per nom. I would support a swap for Razor 1911 if that gets enough votes. 49p (talk) 05:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  13:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Popular for their cyberattacks and prescene in the 2010s. Quite literally listed as "100 most influential people" per Time magazine in 2012 according to the article. I don't think this one needs much explaining, considering we also include.


 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 06:03, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Important enough, if needed we could swap with Lulzsec. Kevinishere15 (talk) 06:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Plenty of real-world influence.-- Laukku  TheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) Iostn (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 00:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 7) Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I WILL say this, though: making the TIME 100 just once isn't a good criteria for inclusion. We don't even have all the TIME People of the Year. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 13:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discuss


 * I made this late at night haha. I was trying to say that the group itself has undoubtedly enough influence in the real world. not just because it's specifically in "time 100" 49p (talk) 14:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * We likely will never have the 2006 Time Person of the Year :) Aurangzebra (talk) 00:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Remove
Only claim to vitality is writing a somewhat famous anti-Tom novel. She did not start the short-lived anti-Tom movement and is not listed as vital. Only 6 interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 15:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:19, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove
Not actually that important as a hacker (he is currently listed under "computer crimes") and his subsequent journalism career which he is actually more notable for itself doesn't seem to be enough to make the cut (he is simply a "contributing editor", and has been involved a few major/majorish cases mentioned but that's it)


 * Support
 * 1) Nom Iostn (talk) 16:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 15:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add or swap with
Barrowman is a quite significant scottish actor and being LGBTQ he would help diversify the list. I offer a swap given that the list of entertainers is over the quota. I suggest Farrell as Barrowman has 12 more interwikis than him and Farrell only really has one significant role being MASH. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. I also vote for the swap. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support swap Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add to Persian artists
Per Brittanica, this 9th century Persian calligrapher invented naskh (script), tawqi and thuluth, and was thrice vizier of the Abbasid Caliphate.  starship .paint  (RUN) 07:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) as nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Good fighter but way too early to tell if he will be vital. He is only 32. Nothing on his article suggests any lasting vitality. He is overshadowed in almost every way by his trainer. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) as nom. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. Recentism.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 01:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Too many MMA personalities <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  07:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) In my opinion, he will become vital in a couple years. Just not now. 49p (talk) 07:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree. Aurangzebra (talk) 02:26, 8 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Discussion - standard for a V5 actor?
If I may suggest, we can establish a standard for V5 actors by naming actors that do meet this level of vitality, and comparing the rest of the entries on the list to this group. If the other entries are not on this level, they should be removed. I have listed 10 relatively modern English-speaking actors below, of various nationalities. How does everyone feel about this list? Do these 10 set a good enough standard? Is there any one of these 10 that are not on the others' level?

 starship .paint  (RUN) 01:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * - who participated in an actors' discussion above.  starship .paint  (RUN) 01:54, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I would swap Downey with someone else maybe . I I think removals should happen and a standered set. This seems to be exclusively film actors and not stage or television. For stage and maybe ?
 * I have made a list of TV actors
 * or
 * I think these 10 fit. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 05:32, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * - I am not as familiar about TV or stage actors. I listed Downey as due to him possibly being the highest-grossing lead actor of all time. Though, Clooney is fine as well. Not sure about Takei though, surely he is outshined by or ?  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh I didn't know the about Downey. I would be willing to swap Takei out for Nimoy or Shatner Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 15:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Starship.paint I generally like this list. However, I think I would remove Keanu Reeves and Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think the 'golden' standard list should include actors who are both popular in the mainstream and have won a substantial amount of acting awards over their career. Reeves and Schwarzenegger achieve the first criteria but not the second. I would possibly consider replacing them with or  (in fact, I would take both of them on this list over most of the current inclusions). Aurangzebra (talk) 02:49, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree on Reeves and Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger has more prestigious awards as an bodybuilder than as an actor. So we could list him in athletes like Jet Li for martial arts. Reeves has been in popular movies, but he might not reach the acting acclaim criteria. Makkool (talk) 11:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd say Schwarzenegger is still much more culturally influential as an actor than as a bodybuilder. A limitation of awards, no single proxy for vitality is infallible.-- Laukku  TheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:37, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * - well, as a sidestep of an acting award, Schwarzenegger won an election to become Governor of California in 2003, having never held public office before, and having retired from bodybuilding in 1980. What led him to win is left as an exercise for the reader.  starship .paint  (RUN) 12:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * But if we are looking for a gold standard to compare our actors to, wouldn't it not make sense to include him then? How would he compare him to other actors if we have to factor in his political career? Aurangzebra (talk) 16:24, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * or
 * I think these 10 fit. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 05:32, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * - I am not as familiar about TV or stage actors. I listed Downey as due to him possibly being the highest-grossing lead actor of all time. Though, Clooney is fine as well. Not sure about Takei though, surely he is outshined by or ?  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh I didn't know the about Downey. I would be willing to swap Takei out for Nimoy or Shatner Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 15:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Starship.paint I generally like this list. However, I think I would remove Keanu Reeves and Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think the 'golden' standard list should include actors who are both popular in the mainstream and have won a substantial amount of acting awards over their career. Reeves and Schwarzenegger achieve the first criteria but not the second. I would possibly consider replacing them with or  (in fact, I would take both of them on this list over most of the current inclusions). Aurangzebra (talk) 02:49, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree on Reeves and Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger has more prestigious awards as an bodybuilder than as an actor. So we could list him in athletes like Jet Li for martial arts. Reeves has been in popular movies, but he might not reach the acting acclaim criteria. Makkool (talk) 11:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd say Schwarzenegger is still much more culturally influential as an actor than as a bodybuilder. A limitation of awards, no single proxy for vitality is infallible.-- Laukku  TheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:37, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * - well, as a sidestep of an acting award, Schwarzenegger won an election to become Governor of California in 2003, having never held public office before, and having retired from bodybuilding in 1980. What led him to win is left as an exercise for the reader.  starship .paint  (RUN) 12:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * But if we are looking for a gold standard to compare our actors to, wouldn't it not make sense to include him then? How would he compare him to other actors if we have to factor in his political career? Aurangzebra (talk) 16:24, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd feel better about these lists if the WHY accompanied the WHO. (Related, since I see William Hartnell and David Tennant listed, is playing Doctor Who a mark of VA5?) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 02:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Tennant has been pretty prolific outside of Doctor Who. I wasn’t completely sure for the tenth entry that’s why I listed two. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 02:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * And another question: is the "standard" the MOST VITAL that didn't make VA4, or is it the MEDIAN vitality of VA5-not-VA4? 02:58, 31 May 2024 (UTC) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  02:58, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * , I'll explain my rational, I tried to create a diverse list.
 * Neil Patrick Harris was picked for as well as other shows, he has received serveral awards. He is openly gay and named one of times 100 Most Influential People in 2010.
 * Andy Griffith for the, he's in the Television Hall of Fame, a portion of US Highway 52 is dedicated to him.
 * Bryan Cranston, Malcolm in the Middle]] and he's receved extensive awards. In recent years he's done a lot of broadway acting,
 * Mr. T for The A-Team and his wrestling career, he had major role in Rocky 3. Possibly not as strong as the other entries.
 * William Hartnell for and his other pretty long career.
 * George Takei for . Takei is also a LGBT rights advicat being openly gay.
 * I can get too the others shortly would anyone like to propose any changes? Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)


 * - for my film actors list, my hope is that it would be the median of V5. A 'just below V4' list would not be useful.  starship .paint  (RUN) 12:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Let me consider this: the AFI list, the Kennedy Center Honors, and Academy Awards. Many of the people on the AFI list are VA4 and the ones that aren't are near the Top of VA5.  Same deal with KCH.  Academy Awards is kind of a mixed bag, because there doesn't seem to be a great correlation between winning an Academy Award in a particular year and being considered one of the greatest ever.  That being said, probably the MEDIAN or average of a VA5-not-VA4 is one Academy Award.  Daniel Day-Lewis has three lead actor awards, so I think he's ABOVE the median VA5-not-VA4 actor. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp * 16:48, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It would sound better to me to compare to lists by outside experts just as these, rather than to make a top ten yardstick ourselves. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

The right size?
I figure probably the right number of actors and actresses is somewhere between 300 and 400. So we have at least twice the actors and actresses as we should <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 19:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)


 * It should presumably be split 50/50. 488 actors and 465 actresses. Both need to be cut by around half. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 01:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Not sure if it should be 50-50. At least, when I looked at contemporary actresses, I don't see them being as vital as the contemporary actors. I think actors have more career longevity? Anyway, drastic cuts are needed, and anyone like absolutely need to go.   starship  .paint  (RUN) 15:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


 * 300 would be 5 times the amount of actors and actresses in V4, which should be just the right amount. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove, , and
All three are stubs. Abouheif's Arabic article is a little bit longer, but he only has five interwikis. In contrast, while Brusnikina and Davydova both have at least twenty interwikis, they are all pretty stubby as much as their English article, including the Russian versions. ( is also a stub, but he is a lot closer comparatively to start status, and he's considered the greatest backstroke swimmer of all time; for that, I'm not nominating him.)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Stub and only has 7 interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Stub (as in three sentences) on here and on Swedish Wikipedia.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Not every Olympic gold medalist is vital. Ping me if anything more substantial is found. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Branimir of Croatia to politicians
Father of medieval Croatia


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:09, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove
Only five interwikis and no RYM page.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Stub. Only has three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:12, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove, , and
I get the desire to be diverse, and the native versions of Hou's and especially Katsura's articles are in much better shape, but they each only have two to three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:25, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Stub. Only has seven interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:25, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Hard to convince myself he is more notable than Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, which isn't a VA. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:50, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Do we really need an oboe player?


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:36, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) I think we do to be honest, and he's not crazy obscure.  J  947  ‡ edits 05:37, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss
 * I think it seems very reasonable to have an oboe player, though I have no opinion on whether it should be this one. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:52, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Remove some ballet dancers
I'm seeing a lot of stub-level ballet dancers with single digits interwikis.

Remove
Stub. Swedish article is a bit better, but that's only one out of eight interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:02, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Stub. French article is not much better.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:10, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose

I just discovered that there is already a discussion for her removal. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:46, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Remove
Same as above. (Also only have 6 interwikis.)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Consists of only three paragraphs. Italian version is very marginally better, with one additional (single sentence) paragraph and four stanza length quote.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Same thing. Italian version is also very marginally better, this time with five additional paragraphs, although the average amount of sentences for all the paragraphs is about two to three.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Just four paragraphs. He seems more important as a writer anyway, as evidenced by the fact that his Italian article doesn't even mention his career as a dancer.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Just three paragraphs. Russian article is slightly longer, but every paragraph is pretty short.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Stub and six interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Only has 5 interwikis and dear god is this article bare.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Just three paragraphs. Russian article (which is just one out of nine interwikis) mostly consists of lists.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:10, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Four paragraphs. Three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Only seven interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
I understand the need for having the first female professional ballet dancer, but look at her article. Just two paragraphs and nine interwikis. We don't even know her first name.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Four paragraphs. Three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:34, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove and
We don't even have the Red Detachment of Women, so why do we have their stars? They only have one and two interwikis respectively.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom (support Liu, will review Xue another time) starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) support both Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss
 * @User:Starship.paint: Just updated this to include Xue Jinghua. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove
I think that note right there says it all about its quality. Also he only has three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Only has eight interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Just four paragraphs (which is one paragraph longer than the Italian version) and eight interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:27, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Just four paragraphs (which is one paragraph longer than the Italian version) and nine interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove and
I got to be honest, I'm not seeing anything that indicates that any of the Vestris are vital, including Gaétan Vestris, who has a healthy 23 interwikis. For now though, I'm just going to nominate Armand and Auguste, who only have 3 and 11 interwikis respectively.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)~
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Only four interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Sai Baba of Shirdi
This is the guy who claims to be a reincarnation of. Seems like he was a very popular religious figure in India for both Hindus and Muslims (although note that it's not clear what religion he actually belonged to), his article is B-tier, he got 35 interwikis, and he's rated high-importance in a lot of WikiProjects.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove and
I would argue the majority of internet personalities at V5 are worthy of vitality. These two are not in that majority, and I fail to see how either are worthy of V5 (outside of maybe diversity, but they're not even the most successful female content creators). Plenty of content creators have twenty million followers and billions of views at this point (and they weren't some of the first), and I don't feel like any of their achievements are particularly noteworthy. Maybe we could do a swap if there's any objection to an outright removal?


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. λ  Negative  MP1  01:32, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  14:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) Hardly ever heard of the latter nomination.  Vileplume  🍋‍🟩 ( talk ) 02:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 7) Support removing Cara Cunningham as she is only highly well-known for the "Leave Britney Alone" video Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Oppose removing Marbles since I am aware she was one of the biggest YouTubers at one point, the article does need significant work however. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Host removals
American television hosts is out of control. There are three at VA4 and 94 at VA5. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove Bob Eubanks
Look, I loved his coverage of the Rose Parade and all, but we recently removed Gene Rayburn and I don't see how Eubanks stays if Rayburn goes. Only three interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Chris Harrison
Only eight interwikis <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Chris Harrison
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Roy Clark
I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship .paint  (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion
 * Neutral when he was first proposed for removal when he was listed as a country musician, still neutral now. I will say though his vitality is much lower than Dick Clark or even Don Cornelius. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove Mike Douglas
I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts. Only 13 interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Morton Downey Jr.
I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts. Only six interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) I was going to argue against removing him since his page suggests he was a major pioneer for trash TV, but he actually only has 6 interwikis. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Joe Franklin
While he may have been one of the first talk show hosts, he only has three interwikis <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Jeff Foxworthy
Another Rayburn-level host. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support removal. I agree that he is more important as a comedian than a game show host, but I would rather list Larry the Cable Guy than him to represent blue collar comedy. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * Eh, he has 41 interwikis and he's considered high-importance on the Comedy WikiProject. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) Per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discussion

Remove Nicole Richie
Mostly notable as the sidekick to Paris Hilton <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Craig Kilborn
Only seven interwikis. Overshadowed by fellas like Conan, Letterman and John Stewart. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Julie Chen Moonves
Only six interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Richard Dawson
Another Rayburn-level host. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.starship.paint ~  starship  .paint  (RUN) 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Jinx Falkenburg
Only two interwikis. While she was one of the first talk show hosts, she's overshadowed by later but more famous hosts <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Elizabeth Hasselback
13 interwikis, which is more than some but still not a great deal. Mostly known as being part of an ensemble. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Dennis James
Maybe slightly more notable than Rayburn but in his neighborhood. Only six interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Ricki Lake
Just don't feel she's VA5


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Art Linkletter
Only eight interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Mario Lopez
Just don't feel he's VA5 <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Allen Ludden
Only eight interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom.starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Phil McGraw
Oprah spinoff. She's vital but IDK if he is <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) I do think he has a large impact on the way we view mental health (albeit a negative one). SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discussion

Remove Mehmet Oz
Oprah spinoff. She's vital but IDK if he is <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) I do think he has a large impact on the way we view health (albeit a negative one). SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discussion

Remove Ed McMahon
Johnny Carson sidekick. Johnny's vital but IDK if Ed is. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Jack Paar
Only a dozen interwikis. The Tonight Show is an influential program but we have Carson, Leno, Conan and Steve Allen already. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Drew Pinsky
Only eight interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Maury Povich
Another Rayburn-level host. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Jeff Probst
Another Rayburn-level host. Only 12 interwikis. I get that Survivor was a big deal for awhile but... <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Sally Jessy Raphael
Only six interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Cristina Saralegui
Only nine interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Buffalo Bob Smith
Only five interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Fine with removing him, but Howdy Doody only has four interwikis? SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Tom Snyder
Only four interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove David Susskind
Only four interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove John Walsh (television host)
Only seven interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Lawrence Welk
My family comes from North Dakota and as such liked his show. But apparently many people don't...only a dozen interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Montel Williams
Another Rayburn-level host. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Wendy Williams
Another Rayburn-level host. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Chuck Woolery
Only six interwikis. Another Rayburn-level host...if that. Overshadowed by his successor Pat Sajak. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) λ  Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

General discussion
I feel like an area where a mass removal proposal like this should happen next is popular musicians. We have 860 of them at V5 compared to 60 at V4. Plus the "Artists, musicians, and composers" section is nearly 100 over quota. I feel like the most we should have at V5 is around 600... λ Negative  MP1  19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove
A while back, I moved the klezmer musicians from the non-European art music section to the popular music section. (I don't know why that genre got placed there either; I have never heard anyone refer klezmer as a form of art music.) This has resulted in Gusikov here being the only person listed under popular musicians to predate recorded music. By a couple of decades actually. Since he only has nine interwikis, I suggest we just remove him.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:21, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove and
I hate to do this, because I have heard people consider the Rock Steady Crew and Crazy Legs in particular as being very important to the development of breakdancing. But the Rock Steady Crew is in piss poor shape and only has eight interwikis, while Crazy Legs (whose article is at least decent) only has four.


 * Support
 * 1) Reluctantly. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss
 * Will there be someone to represent breakdance or hip hop dance, if we remove them? Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

British, Canadian and Australian television hosts removals
Above, I made nominations to address U.S. television host bloat but British, Canadian and Australian television host bloat is also pretty bad.

Remove Rove McManus
Only six interwikis. We don't need 14 Australasian TV personalities. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Kevin O'Leary
Only seven languages. Mostly known as a businessman who appeared on an ensemble show. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove George Stroumboulopoulos
Only eight interwikis. Not even on the level of Gene Rayburn, which we removed. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Clive Anderson
The franchise Whose Line Is It Anyway? is possibly notable but I don't think Clive Anderson is. Only nine interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Melvyn Bragg
Only 10 interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Gay Byrne
Hosted a show for a long time but it's far from the most notable of shows. Only seven interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) He might be praised as being the most important television personality in Ireland, but at the end of the day he only has seven interwikis. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:50, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * 1) "In 2010, The Irish Times said Byrne was "unquestionably the most influential radio and television man in the history of the Irish State"" - if we're trying to make TV hosts less US biased, then removing some of the most important figures from other countries seems antithetical to that. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discussion

Remove Judith Chalmers
Only four interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Bill Grundy
Stub with only four interwikis. The Sex Pistols might be VA5 but he isn't. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Only really notable for the Sex Pistols connection. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Russell Harty
Just a single interwiki link and lede doesn't even mention any notable shows he hosted. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Charles Ingram
We already have John Carpenter from Who Wants to be A Millionaire <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support removal, or possibly move to criminals. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) We don't need a gameshow contestant.  J  947  ‡ edits 05:34, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Ingram has both more pageviews and interwikis than John Carpenter (game show contestant) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * But he shouldn't be listed here with game show hosts. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I am open to removing Carpenter as well. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 16:58, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discussion

Remove Pat Kenny
Only six interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Jeremy Kyle
Only eight interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove John McCririck
Only three interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove John Noakes
Only five interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Des O'Connor

 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Just nine interwikis. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Michael Parkinson

 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Why? Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) "the great British talkshow host" Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discussion

Remove Gerry Ryan
Just three interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Frank Skinner
Only five interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Alan Titchmarsh
Only four interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Ryan Tubridy
Just one interwiki. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Denise Welch
Just six interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Alan Whicker
Just seven interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Richard Whiteley
Just two interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Paula Yates

 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Don Burke
Just two interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Denise Drysdale
Just three interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Bruce Gyngell
No interwiki links. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Kerri-Anne Kennerley
Just one interwiki. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Gretel Killeen
Just one interwiki. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Don Lane
Just three interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Ray Martin (television presenter)
Just three interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Eddie McGuire
Just three interwikis. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Bert Newton
Less-notable sidekick of Graham Kennedy <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove Daryl Somers
Just a single interwiki link. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discussion

Remove some pre-modern scientists
I'm just going to make a giant block request for this one. The scientists I'm about to list either have single-digit interwikis, stubs, or both. NOTE: IW = interwikis, P=Paragraphs


 * 1) (2IW and 3P)
 * 2) (3P)
 * 3) (1P)
 * 4) (4P)
 * 5) (4IW and 4P)
 * 6) (8IW)
 * 7) (6P)
 * 8) (5P)
 * 9) (4P)
 * 10) (3IW)
 * 11) (3P)
 * 12) (6P)
 * 13) (3IW and 4P)
 * 14) (6P)
 * 15) (4P)
 * 16) (4P)
 * 17) (Throwing this in because almost all of the paragraphs consists of a single sentence.)
 * 18) (9IW and 3P)
 * 19) (4P)
 * 20) (6P)
 * 21) (6P)
 * 22) (5P)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) λ  Negative  MP1  05:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Keep Mahāvīra (mathematician) and Pingala at least.  J  947  ‡ edits 05:32, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Oppose all on principle. These kinds of block nominations completely lack nuance and end up making some wild assumptions based on very little. Take Aglaonice, for example; her article may be relatively short and underdeveloped, but she was one of the first astronomers documented to have learned the cycle of lunar eclipses, has 37 interwikis, and has had a species of moth and a crater of Venus named after her. But the nominator wants her removed because of article quality and no other assessment? --Grnrchst (talk) 14:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The more I look at it, the worse it gets. Menaechmus, who discovered conic sections and has 29 interwikis; Tapputi, who was one of the first recorded chemists and has 24 interwikis; Zhang Zhongjing, who contributed so much to his period's medical understanding that he is held to be a sage, 23 interwikis; Anthemius of Tralles, the architect of the Hagia Sophia(!!!) and has 39 interwikis. It is astounding that these are all lumped together in a block removal proposal for no other reason than their articles aren't very long... --Grnrchst (talk) 14:43, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) I agree with the above. We can't just remove biographies on the basis that they're short don't have interwikis. These articles should be based on the contribution of their respective discipline in the context of the time. The whole point of WP:VITAL isn't to document Wikipedia's best articles, but to highlight the ones which are significant in the context of history. Thus, only sound reasoning outlining specifically the contribution (or lack thereof) of each individual person should be all that is considered when removing or adding articles. I am opposed to this removal and I am opposed to this style of 'block nominations'. Idiosincrático (talk) 14:39, 25 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss
 * User:Grnrchst, User:Idiosincrático: OK, first off, you guys know you can easily just say "Keep so-and-so" right? Second, the entire purpose of this project is to find globally relevant articles and bring them to at least good article quality. So yes, I do think that article quality and the amount of interwikis are good indication to judge vitality. If an article have spent most of its existence of with only a handful of paragraphs, that indicates that it's not possible to improve it. If an article has only a handful of interwikis, that indicates that it's not globally relevant. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove
Just five paragraphs (of which only three are actually paragraph-length) and four interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Not even 100 pageviews in the past month Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Suggested for removal in the Jared Leto discussion. We have too many actors, and this one does not seem vital enough to make the list.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:11, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Glad to see this clean up happen. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 16:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 09:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 18:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove
We still have way too many authors from the U.S. and Canada, and this guy does not seem to have had any amount of influence.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:19, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 18:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove some world musicians
I hate to say this because we do need a more global array of people for this project, but I am coming across a lot of musicians with single digit interwikis. I am going to do a block request for each section and list the people I want removed along with the amount of interwikis they have.

Remove some non-Western art musicians

 * 1) (3)
 * 2) (2)
 * 3) (3)
 * 4) (5)
 * 5) (4)
 * 6) (2)
 * 7) (0; already being discussed)
 * 1) (5)
 * 2) (8)
 * 3) (8)
 * 4) (6)
 * 5) (6)
 * 6) (5)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support all Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) remove unstruck per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Support Turgun Alimatov (only 116 views in the past month) and Min Huifen (96). Iostn (talk) 23:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Oppose removing Muthiah Bhagavatar and Buhurizade Mustafa Itri. Iostn (talk) 23:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss
 * Hesitant to remove some of these, but I think the intent is to cut Artists, musicians, and composers section down to quota Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove some religious musicians

 * 1) (9)
 * 2) (8)
 * 3) (9)
 * 4) (6)
 * 5) (8)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I hereby withdraw this proposal. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * 1) Keep Shlomo Carlebach ("the foremost Jewish religious songwriter of the 20th century") and Junoon ("Pakistan's and one of South Asia's most successful bands"), remove the rest. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Luckily for the Caribbean section, Kitchener is the only one with less than ten interwikis (4).


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Regardless of interwikis he is quite clearly influential in the development of calypso, and pageviews are far higher than many of the others being proposed here. Iostn (talk) 23:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove the entire klezmer section Swap Dave Tarras with Giora Feidman
I'm already requesting the removal of, but the other two ( and ) also have single digit interwikis (9 and 3 respectively). On second thought, I am just going to nominate Tarras for removal. To keep Brandwein from being lonely, I am also going to advocate adding Giora Feidman. I think Fiedman the only klezmer musician with double-digit interwiki figures.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support swap Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose

@User:Makkool, proposal has been changed. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Remove some non-English pop musicians

 * 1) (2)
 * 2) (3)
 * 3) (3)
 * 4) (4)
 * 5) (5)
 * 6) (2)
 * 7) (3)
 * 8) (7)
 * 9) (8)
 * 10) (2)
 * 11) (4)
 * 12) (2)
 * 13) (3)
 * 1) (9)
 * 2) (7)
 * 3) (8)
 * 4) (7)
 * 5) (9)
 * 6) (6)
 * 7) (8)
 * 8) (9)
 * 9) (8)
 * 10) (8)
 * 11) (9)
 * 12) (5)
 * 13) (6)
 * 14) (8)
 * 15) (9)
 * 16) (7)
 * 17) (9)
 * 18) (8)
 * 19) (7)
 * 20) (9)
 * 21) (6)
 * 22) (5)
 * 23) (9)
 * 24) (7)
 * 25) (8)
 * 26) (6)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Keep APO Hiking Society, Vital Signs and Azam Khan - remove the rest. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Support removing Phyu Phyu Kyaw Thein (unclear if she is one of the most notable Burmese pop musicians), Muboraksho Mirzoshoyev and Sarantuya.


 * Oppose
 * 1) Oppose removing Azam Khan, Vital Signs, Lee Mi-ja (Trot is an important older form of Korean pop music), Awie, W. D. Amaradeva and APO Hiking Society.


 * Discuss
 * Azam Khan was voted in only three months ago. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove some African musicians

 * 1) (6)
 * 2) (4)
 * 3) (3)
 * 4) (4)
 * 5) (3)
 * 6) (3)
 * 7) (6)
 * 8) (3)
 * 1) (6)
 * 2) (9)
 * 3) (7)
 * 4) (5)
 * 5) (7)
 * 6) (5)
 * 7) (8)
 * 8) (9)
 * 9) (9)
 * 10) (7)
 * 11) (8)


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support all. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) remove unstruck per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Support Mahmoud Guinia, Lady Jaydee, Daniel Owino Misiani and Wazimbo. Iostn (talk) 23:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Oppose removing Ayub Ogada and Le Grand Kallé. Iostn (talk) 23:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

General comments
I really do not understand why this is being judged using interwikis as the sole metric for measuring vitality, not to mention that bloc nominations have been criticised many times before for being hard to implement on voting. Another massive problem with this is for the "African popular music" section, where you are using interwiki links to measure vitality while African languages are notorious for being underrepresented and thus automatically have a disadvantage if you are using those to measure vitality - as can be seen by the fact that the number of those nominated for removal equals half the entire articles listed in the section. As such I'm effectively opposing all of these proposals in the current state, at least until they are being looked at individually. Iostn (talk) 10:02, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I expressed concerns for this type of viewpoint on a different proposal on a different talk page. Per WP:SYSBIAS, it is proven that Wikipedia has a general bias against developing nations and leaves their articles generally less developed. This also applies to whether or not the articles exist on other language Wikipedias. Also speaking from that viewpoint, some of these proposals would leave Western musicians, an already messy session, vastly over-represented. I can get behind using interwikis for some proposals (it made sense for stuff like the television hosts), but it just doesn't make sense her per the SYSBIAS essay. λ Negative  MP1  16:48, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Where have bloc nominations been criticised? I don't take a stand on systemic bias, but if we intend to make any progress in cutting the sections over-quota by over a hundred articles, we need to think of new ideas than having just individual nominations. Makkool (talk) 17:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I can agree with you on that, as I do think massive cuts are needed, but my concern is more or less that we should be cautious, and interwikis may not be the best metric for 100% of nominations. λ Negative  MP1  18:11, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Regardless of country of origin, having 0 or 1 interwikis is a red flag. If you want to compensate for underrepresentation of Africans, maybe the rule of thumb should be 5 interwikis in the Third World and 10 in the First... <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  23:02, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

@User:Makkool, @Iostn, @User:NegativeMP1: After much thought, I decided to withdraw my nominations for mostly everyone with more than five interwikis due to the issues brought up (so just close my religious section request). I am also withdrawing my nominations for K. P. H. Notoprojo (he is probably the biggest name in gamelan), Faramarz Payvar (his Persian article kind of indicates he is a major Persian traditional musician), Koes Plus (six of their albums are on Rolling Stone Indonesia's 150 Greatest Indonesian Albums of All Time list), Menudo (one of the biggest boy bands), Jua Cali (represents genge), and Tunde King (founder of jùjú music). I'm still going to nominate those with less than five interwikis (that's still too small to be on here), along with Yatsuhashi Kengyo (stub), Awie (does not have at Rate Your Music page, although his previous band Wings does have one), Sarantuya (stub), Muboraksho Mirzoshoyev (does not have at Rate Your Music page), Christy Essien-Igbokwe (she was originally listed under the music industry figures for reasons I just can't find), and Ayub Ogada (I'm not seeing anything that makes him vital). SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've finally gone through and attempted to vote on these, but I think many of those that were withdrawn could've easily gone anyways, regardless of however many times the article has been translated. Iostn (talk) 23:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Remove
Hate to remove a featured article, but he only has six interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) No indication of vitality. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:10, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) His mentor  was much more vital than him. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Stub. He did worked with and he does have a ship named after him, but I'm not sure if his article can be improved.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:15, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Low pageviews Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Nicolas Appert
Known as the father of food science. Invented airtight food preservation, has 84 interwikis, and is the only person rated top-importance in the Food Wikiproject.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:58, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Solomon Linda
To make up for the drastic cuts I was proposing for the African music section, here's the original singer/writer for.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:43, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Yoshiko Yamaguchi
She's the only Seven Great Singing Stars we don't have on here. I understand the unusual conditions regarding her, but she has the second highest amount of interwikis amongst the seven.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:55, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap with John Kander and Fred Ebb
Other than four other Wikipedias, no one has bothered to write a page on the songwriter pairing itself. Kander and Ebb themselves at least have 18 and 15 interwikis respectively, however.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:05, 19 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap with Bob Bryan and Mike Bryan
Same thing as above, although at least the article about this pair has at least nine interwikis. (Bob and Mike themselves have 36 and 34.) Admittedly, Kander and Ebb at least makes up for that for not treating the article on their pairing as the main one.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) They are known for their doubles career and not for their individual accomplishments. Aurangzebra (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove Christian Samuel Weiss
Only three paragraphs.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
I don't even get how he got on here. Even ignoring that he only has three paragraphs and two interwikis, there's nothing that indicates any vitality whatsoever.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:04, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Would not even make a hypothetical VA6. Should not be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:23, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
He was not one of the world musicians I wanted to remove, but yeah his page is a stub. I took a look at his Lithuanian page and it's not much longer.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:22, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Doesn't seem to have any noteworthy impact. λ Negative  MP1  06:15, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
When it comes to vitality, I think a music artist like this should only be listed if they have left a truly significant long term impact to their field of work, rather than being a popularity contest. And at present, Billie, an artist with only nine years of activity, is yet to leave any long term impact, and her article doesn't even have a legacy/cultural impact section. Her accolades, popularity, and acclaim are irrelevant if they hold no weight. While she certainly has potential, this listing feels like WP:RECENTISM, and possibly Americentrism. We're also over quota in this section. I say we remove her (and many other yet-to-be-nominated artists with dubious legacies) now, and reassess at a later point.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. λ Negative  MP1  23:09, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 06:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 16:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]
 * 4) Support per nominator. I would like to see a formal rule put into place in terms of number of years active and impact though, and we can drop all the people who aren't within that span to be consistent. GeogSage  ( ⚔Chat?⚔ ) 16:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Likely not something that'd be determined during this discussion, but my personal vote for a rule like that would be twenty years, save for a few special cases like . λ Negative  MP1  23:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) This is a similar case to the Weeknd (which has had a lot of opposition to his removal), where I think a lot of voting patterns have become overtly counter-recentist which is only a hindrance in covering influential recent phenomena. Billie Eilish has been the most viewed page on a person born since 2000 continuously since August 2019, and by a large margin, which does not indicate someone who is likely to disappear any time soon. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per Iost Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per Iostn. Also it feels like anytime she releases something, she gets an award. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove Tunka Manin
I hate to say this, but I think the is just going to have to be one of those countries where we don't list any of its leaders. Only three paragraphs and three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Wrote one decently popular short story that inspired a few other works. I could maybe see including the story, although even that would be a stretch, but this guy has no reason to be on the list, especially when we have this many modern American/Canadian authors. Only 8 interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove
I do want someone to represent funk carioca, and he does look like he has a pretty big YouTube career, but he only has four interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:41, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Support swap with Brazilian funk.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 10:58, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove and
Both figures have only three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss


 * Oppose

Remove
Stub. We also have on here, who is probably the only Bhutanese figure we need for this period.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:02, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Low page views, and ruler of a country that to this day has a population of under a million Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Only four interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:13, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Appears to be a significant pre-colonial ruler who is still commemorated today in the Philippines in the present day, interwikis are not a great way of measuring vitality for something as underrepresnted as pre-colonial historical figures in the Global South Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per above Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove
For basically the exact same reasons as why I proposed Billie Eilish for removal from this list. Beyond some listings from blogs, a few awards, wax statues and an increase in rates of babies named after her (how the hell are these considered "legacy" / "impact"??), she's had no proven long term impact on the music industry yet and her career only spans a decade. This listing is blatant WP:RECENTISM in a section currently over quota. Same as with Billie, if this impact changes in the future, we can always revisit.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. λ  Negative  MP1  01:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discussion

Remove
With a career only spanning 15 years and an article with no impact or legacy section to be seen, this listing appears to be RECENTISM. The only semi-fair justification for listing him would be due to the success of "Blinding Lights", but that is only one song. One song is not enough to justify considering him as one of the few hundred most important modern era artists. Same as with other remove proposals, we can always revisit if he leaves a worthy impact or legacy on the music industry.


 * Support
 * As nom. λ Negative  MP1  01:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC) Withdrawing support vote upon reconsideration.


 * 1) Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) An obscure figure to much of the world, he is primarily known and listened to by Western audiences. Instead, we should have more representation from the Global South. He is essentially a moderately popular artist whose fame will likely fade in a few years.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 16:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you actually believe this? Or are you just saying this because Tony wants to keep the Weeknd here while pbp finds the rationale of removing him questionable? SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I think you are taking such accusations out of a magic hat. I don't follow your reasoning; what does my support have to do with Tony or pbp?!  The Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 18:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no shortage of figures already listed under "Non-English popular music". Iostn (talk)
 * 1) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * OK, some of you have some very weird definition on what qualifies as recent. Only 15 years? That's more than enough time to judge someone on whether they're vital or not. And considering he's spent most of that 15 years as being on of the biggest pop stars on Earth, yes I would say he's vital. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * OP, I'm sorry to come across as harsh regarding your recent proposals. I just don't like how people are acting like we need a full generation to judge the vitality of something. The Peter Thiel proposal got rejected (much too soon personally, since it was a 3-1 decision in favor of adding him, and was closed only a month after the last comment) because someone felt he was too recent, even though he's been a major figure since 1998. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I feel like that "generation" (which I specifically elsewhere gave room for special exceptions, if they truly proved themselves) is actually essential to determine whether or not something is vital. Especially when we're drastically overquota in this section. I guess it could be lower than 15 years, but there needs to be some sort of general cutoff or criteria if we plan on making this section reasonable. And I'm uncertain if The Weeknd or several other artists would meet whatever that criteria could be, even if it's not mine. λ Negative  MP1  16:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The Beatles' first hit was in 1962 and they broke up in 1970. Should we remove THEM because they only lasted eight years?  Career length is the wrong metric for musicians.  They should either be measured by:
 * Popularity (#1 hits, gold records, ticket sales at concerts...), or
 * Acclaim (winning a lifetime achievement award or several competitive awards)
 * <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 15:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comparing the most influential band of all time to a singer we can't assess the industry impact of yet outside of popularity is certainly an interesting approach. In no world would I ever call for the removal of bands like that, or even shorter lasting ones like . It should have been obvious that I meant fifteen years after the career started, even if the act ended. And no, legacy and maybe acclaim (if a legacy can back it up) should almost ALWAYS come over popularity, unless that popularity is long lasting. λ Negative  MP1  03:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) 'Strong Oppose Generational.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Neutral

I was going to say something similar: I'm not sure whether or not the Weeknd belongs on this list, but the OP's rationale is unconvincing. Most vital bios, musician or otherwise's, period of vitality is less than 15 years. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discussion

Remove
I don't see anything at all to indicate vitality. No Grammies, no #1 single or album, nothing.


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) I think she was just put on here to fill up the Caribbean section, which as I mentioned when I moved her to the general pop section, she did not fit beyond being born there. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove
Maybe it's because his article's poorly written, but I'm not seeing enough evidence that he's VA5. Only 11 interwikis which is underwhelming for a pop figure. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) I think he's the biggest name in British dance band? But yeah, just remove him. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove
Doesn't have the acclaim of some of the other groups on here. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

On the one hand, they recorded "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" and "Tonight's the Night". On the other hand, they were not as big as The Supremes or as critically loved as The Ronettes. Neutral overall. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * Discussion

Remove
Very little chart success in Australia and almost none outside of it. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

<sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * 1) The article demonstates their influence well. Children's music is a genre where vitality doesn't translate well to chart success. We should also list some other children's music artist besides Alvin and the Chipmunks. Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per Makkool. If we're judging solely within the context of children's music, they're the biggest act of all time. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discussion

Remove Francis II of France
Only ruled for one year. Was basically just a pawn for his mother.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

US actors removals
These were suggested above in the Casey Affleck / Jared Leto proposal, which just passed. I'll open them up for discussion, where we could also test the criteria to include an actor in V5. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove
Could he be too recent new actor where it's not clear if his career will be vital? He's an Academy Award winner though.


 * Support
 * 1) I think there should be more than one Academy Award to be automatically vital. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
An esteemed character actor, whose also an Academy Award winner. Although most of his acclaim is from a role in one specific film, The Last King of Scotland.


 * Support
 * 1) I think there should be more than one Academy Award to be automatically vital. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) He's a prominent black actor. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Remove
Star of a hit franchise, High School Musical, and now has a career doing character roles. No major awards.


 * Support
 * 1) No basis for vitality Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Is High School Musical even vital? SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  02:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Another esteemed character actor, who's an Academy Award winner.


 * Support
 * 1) I think there should be more than one Academy Award to be automatically vital. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) As the person who first brought this up Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Golden Globe winner, but his career seems to have petered out because of sexual misconduct allegations.


 * Support
 * 1) Only an Academy Award nomination. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  02:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Golden Globe nominations. Has starred in popular comedies, but it might be too early to say anything about his legacy in film comedy.


 * Support
 * 1) Support for now Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) He is way too big to be removed. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Remove Lady Jane Grey
Unlike Empress Matilda, whose claim to the throne lasted for years, Grey's claim to the throne only lasted for nine days.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:58, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove some British Prime Ministers
These PMs only had the position for about a year or so.

Remove Spencer Compton, 1st Earl of Wilmington
Only about seventeen months.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:02, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove William Cavendish, 4th Duke of Devonshire
Only seven months.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:25, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove John Stuart, 3rd Earl of Bute
Only about eleven months.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove Charles Watson-Wentworth, 2nd Marquess of Rockingham
Only has an accumulated tenure of fifteen months.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove Augustus FitzRoy, 3rd Duke of Grafton
Only about fifteen months.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove William Petty, 2nd Earl of Shelburne
Only about eight months.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Head of state of Sudan since 2019. Leads the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) against the Rapid Support Forces (RSF) in the ongoing War in Sudan. He also botched the Sudanese transition to democracy.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
First President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (from only five today), serving from 1960 to 1965. His tensions with were one of the causes of the. Also, the DRC has 105 million people and only 4 politicians.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
He is sometimes viewed as the world’s first social democratic head of state and one of the only three “real” Presidents of Germany from 1918 to 1945. His legacy is complex and controversial, particularly concerning the crises that led to Hitler's rise to power.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. To politicians. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Known as “the father of Russian Marxism”, he was undeniably an immense influence on the Bolsheviks, who gave him the rare distinction of admiring him despite his misgivings towards them.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. To revolutionaries. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Arguably a more effective activist than her mother,, her work was characterized by a commitment to what we would today call intersectionality. Focusing on class and gender, she was one of the leading European figures for decolonization and was active on three continents.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Surprised there isn't an article on the Pankhurst family Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) The pre-eminent figure of the early British communist movement and very influential in soliciting allied support for Ethiopia. 34 interwikis, averages 245 page views per day. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Russian revolutionary who played an important role in the and as an architect of the early Soviet system, particularly education and women’s rights.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Norwegian mathematician best known for his contributions to s and s, named after him.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 16:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:42, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove Honoré I, Lord of Monaco
There's been rumbling around here regarding the ratio of the population of a country and the amount of leaders that we made vital. I should note that Monaco has nine people on here despite having a population of less than 40k. I'm going to nominate this guy; I'm just not seeing anything that would make him vital.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Other than exposing, I cant really think of a reason to keep him here. He hacked a bunch of high-profile companies, but I don't think that enough to make him vital.


 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 17:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Other than maybe his naming controversy, I don't think he's vital. We have too many phreakers in this list. I don't think he's the notable levels of and I never heard of his name.
 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 17:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
Not sure why these guys arent listed? Weezer (Blue Album) and Pinkerton (album) are considered to one of the greatest album of 1990s. Not to mention, but Pinkerton (album) is extremely known to be influential in and. I even think Pinkerton is possibly enough on its own to be vital. I guess these guys are ignored because popularity ≠ vitality, but I think they have a chance here.


 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 17:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) I could also see a case for Pinkerton being vital, since it alone seems to have been decently influential, has a lot of post-release acclaim, and a perfect 100 on Metacritic. λ  Negative  MP1  02:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * Discuss

Add Bad Brains
Known for influencing, , ,  etc. Known for combining  with  and. It is also known for being a band, and one of the earliest  pioneers.


 * Support
 * 1) 49p (talk) 06:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * 1) Not a well-known band and some of the bands they've influenced are likely to also be removed <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  13:25, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by well-known? Do you mean mainstream? Sure, but there's a bunch of bands we list that aren't really "mainstream", but defining for the genre. For bands they've influenced, I guess you're right here. However, there's pretty clear bands that are definitely vital like or, so the claim isn't really lost.
 * I think Bad Brains are vital in the same reason on why we list, , or . Is there something that I'm missing to why they aren't vital? 49p (talk) 02:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Musicians and bands is very bloated right now and the bands that didn't achieve long-term success or have many chart-topping hits are either not going to be removed or not going to be added in the first place <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 13:08, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove Agüeybaná II and Cunhambebe
Both only have three interwikis. Wish I can think of another historical native Brazilian leader to replace the latter, but I can't. The Taíno still have though.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) We should probably have more Native American leaders, not fewer <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  13:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove Minor Threat
Band was only active for three years and didn't have any significant chart-toppers during that time. <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 13:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Support
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  13:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) A very minor band (no pun intended) that isn't relevant to the history/concept of modern music. λ  Negative  MP1  18:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * 1) Very influential band to hardcore punk and the larger punk subculture. Makkool (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Pretty much one the biggest faces of hardcore punk. Punk bands, especially hardcore punk bands, are rarely gonna hit chart-toppers. They're usually boom and bust bands, especially in the 80s. 49p (talk) 05:48, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) "Didn't have any significant chart-toppers?" Some musicians might be vital based on chart success, but when it comes to genres like hardcore punk that's a horrible way to judge the importance of someone. Hardcore punks don't just rarely chart, they go out their way to make sure they don't break in into the mainstream. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Add Edmund Andros
Think we can have one more colonial American administrator. Rated high-importance on a lot of WikiProjects, he was the Governor of New York for nine years, the Governor of Virginia for almost six years, and the Governor of Maryland for a couple of months. But what makes him vital in my opinion is his role as the Royal Governor of the Dominion of New England, where he pissed off everyone so much that he was immediately overthrown once word of the Glorious Revolution reach the colonies.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:03, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose

I'm 50/50 on this one. Were I listing American colonial figures close to VA5 but not there (call it VA5.5 if you will), Andros is one of the omissions; so are the Calverts, James Oglethorpe and Peter Stuyvesant (the latter an interesting one because a) New York is currently the largest of the 13 former colonies, and b) Stuyvesant would be the only non-British colonial figure on the list.) This also seems to fly somewhat in the face of when, earlier this year, we removed quite a few Usonian American politicians, some of whom have as good or better claim to this spot. Those removals would also suggest against a consensus for more Usonian <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 03:26, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Add Willie O'Ree
First black National Hockey League player. Although not the first person of color in the NHL, O'Ree is widely regarded as the "Jackie Robinson of hockey".

Would be added to Vital articles/Level/5/People/Sports figures.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 21:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Keir Starmer
New UK prime minister.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 21:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose

If he lasts into 2025... <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp 01:39, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss

Add Vito Volterra
Regarded as a founder of. Known for multiple equations, including.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 02:58, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap Leah Keshet with D'Arcy Wentworth Thompson
Thompson is far more notable under the topic of mathematical and theoretical biology. Well known for On Growth and Form, his work has influenced incredibly notable academics including, , , and.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 03:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:13, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Swap Florence La Badie with Rachel McAdams
Plenty of more notable Canadian actresses. Proposing a swap with Rachel McAdams so that a modern Canadian actress can be added, which, as far as I'm aware, we don't have yet.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 03:59, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support remove for now Makkool (talk) 11:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Elliot Page
Although Page has not won an Academy Award/BAFTA like some other actors listed, Page is unarguably one of the most notable transgender actors and beats plenty of other listed actors in terms of notability.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 04:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:34, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) I am tentatively here because I feel that he hasn't done a huge amount since publicly coming out in 2020. Most of his success was when he was not yet publicly transgender.  starship .paint  (RUN) 14:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per starship.paint. I can see him becoming VA5 at some point but not just yet. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove Gosamaru
Barely a start article. Only three interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship .paint  (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Peter Mansbridge
Broadcast journalists and commentators is pretty American/Australian-centric at the moment, with most of the 80 articles listed being from either of the two countries. There currently isn't a Canadian/Canadian-based broadcast journalist in this category and I feel that Mansbridge is probably the most notable of them. To justify the lack of interwikis, many other journalists currently listed in this category also don't have much interwikis either.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 16:50, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Long career at the head of a major network, lots of awards, and the article is rated High-Importance by WikiProject Canada. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:01, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
One interwiki.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 17:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  18:17, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) No indication of vitality. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:06, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 11:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:02, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add Johnny Sins
Zero explanation needed.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 17:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Seemingly very popular and prolific. 40 interwikis. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:59, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 22:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Western writer removal proposals
Prose writers > Modern > US and Canada
 * pen name for the author(s) of The Hardy Boys series. Few interwikis, VA should be moved to the "The Hardy Boys" article itself under 20th century fiction IMO.
 * 3 interwikis.
 * 2 interwikis.
 * 2 interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 21:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Support <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  15:41, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Swap with The Hardy Boys for "Dixon", support removal him otherwise and for everyone else. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Support all four, as well as the swap with Hardy Boys Makkool (talk) 21:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 5) Support swap between Dixon and The Hardy Boys (we list  so we should also list The Hardy Boys). Support everything else. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 6) Support removals per nom, add Hardy Boys.  starship .paint  (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 7) Support swapping Dixon for The Hardy Boys because that is basically all the pen name is known for and the book series is more vital than the pen name, support the rest because I read their articles and they do not seem popular or influential enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Only listed as the second-longest tenured moderator of Meet the Press. That claim is unsourced, the longest tenured presenter is also only VA5, and this man does not seem to have had an influence on anything.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship .paint  (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Makkool (talk) 19:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove Roger Williams (soldier)
Only one interwiki.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship .paint  (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Does not seem important enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove Noël Jourda de Vaux
Only four interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship .paint  (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
We still have way too many modern American/Canadian writers (currently over 280) and this guy is seemingly one of the least important people still listed. Not every Pulitzer Prize in Fiction winner is vital (we already do not list all of them) and this guy has little else going for him. Two obscure books, published posthumously, with minimal influence. There are plenty of topics and people that I would rather list.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 19:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Oppose. I consider  to be a classic (and it seems like other editors agree by including it on VA5). It is listed as the 227th greatest book of all time on the aggregator site Greatest Books . We include plenty of other "one-hit wonder" authors (off a quick glance, examples include  and ) so I think it's fair we include the author of one of the staples of Southern literature. If we want to remove some authors from this list, there are so many better contenders e.g.  whose work has aged incredibly poorly and  whose two novels with Wikipedia articles have 0 interwikis. Aurangzebra (talk) 05:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * With Haley and Chopin, they each have several stories with articles. Toole only has two. They also have significantly more recognition and awards than Toole, who only received one award. For this situation, especially considering the fact that the book was published posthumously and the fact that writers in general is well over the quota, I think it would be fine to list the book without also listing the author. BTW, thanks for the suggestion for Neiderman, I nominated him for removal below. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:20, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair opinion. I don't think I'll change my vote mainly because I feel like it doesn't make sense to a list a novel in VA5 and not also include its author but I do respect the reasoning behind the counterpoints. Aurangzebra (talk) 05:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Film scholar additions
There is under-representation in art historians of scholars and historians focusing on film. I feel these could be essential names to list, to have more balance between different art forms in that section.


 * It is worth noting that it may seem like film scholars are under-represented simply because film theory as an independent field is a relatively novel concept but there are many prominent film scholars we list whose primary contributions are in other domains e.g. who was foremost a director and  who was primarily a philosopher. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's correct. We also already list and  who are prominent, and the latter is represented in the art historians and critics section. I think with the space we have, we can list some more. Makkool (talk) 09:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Add
His book Film Art "is still used as a seminal text in introductory film courses". 14 interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral
 * 1) Going to reserve judgment on this one but it's worth noting that we don't include seminal textbook authors in other more noteworthy fields. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * His article also mentions that he has written "influential articles on theory, narrative, and style". He seems to be an important figure in academic film studies, at least in North America. Don't know if his scholarship is read in Europe for example. Makkool (talk) 09:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Add
Pioneering feminist film analyst. "Helped shift the orientation of film theory towards a psychoanalytic framework" and introduced the concept of "male gaze".


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 06:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Iostn (talk) 21:22, 18 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Add
Queer film theorist and author of The Celluloid Closet, "'an essential reference book' on homosexuality in the US film industry".


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Iostn (talk) 21:22, 18 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Add
African film scholar who "contributed significantly to the study of black film".


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Add
Undoubtedly the most popular 2020s internet live streamer. Has a whopping 82 interwikis, even more than other significant YouTube/internet personalities like and.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 19:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) A bit recent, but he is the most famous and prominent streamer of this decade so far. We can remove him later if he's overtaken or fades into obscurity, but at present he's an obvious addition IMO and would be one of the best picks for expanding the internet personalities section. λ  Negative  MP1  19:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) Who? This decade has 4 years, so not that impressive of a feat if that statement is even true.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 21:19, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * We list other internet personalities like, who are objectively far less notable. Just because you personally don't know this person doesn't make them any less notable. <span style="display:inline-block;background:linear-gradient(to right,#24D628,#F934EF,#9F5300);padding:2px 10px;border-top-left-radius:15px;border-bottom-right-radius:15px;">B3251 (talk) 22:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Two wrongs don't make a right, Jeffree Star should be removed. This YouTuber is a fad; plus being popular alone isn't a strong enough reason for inclusion, it needs to have some sort of impact. Also, that sentence can very well be reversed, just because you know him doesn't make him any more vital; if you go ask the average person who this YouTuber is they will look at you clueless.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 22:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) Oppose. I do know Speed and I am aware of his popularity but he has not done anything to demonstrate his longevity just yet nor has he been particularly influential to mainstream culture. I don't agree with the sentiment that we should add him now and remove him if he fades into obscurity because streamer longevity is notoriously hard to achieve. Take Adin Ross for example: at his peak, he was extremely popular and was regularly doing streams with big name celebrities; now, he barely makes a blip on the radar. We also don't follow this pattern in other categories where it would make a lot more sense e.g. we don't automatically add the soccer player who wins the Ballon d'Or even though they have more cultural and global influence and cross-generational appeal than streamers do. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * If we must include more Internet personalities, I would rather have Kai Cenat who is the most-subscribed Twitch streamer of all time, won the 2023 and 2024 Streamer of the Year awards, and popularized the terms rizz and gyat whose use has spread outside of the streamer-sphere. Fwiw, I would also support removing Jeffree Star. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I would also support adding Kai Cenat. Not many streamers have accidentally started a riot. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove
Japanese tattoo artist. Made more sense when we had internal quotas, but his recognition seems regional at most.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Russian and Israeli sports photographer. His article does not assert much vitality, and the Russian version is quite short too.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
British-born hand-knitting teacher and designer. Relatively obscure figure. Only 2 interwikis.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Another tattoo artist who probably doesn’t make the cut with the internal quotas gone.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Golf course designer. I struggle to think he is among the 120 or so most important architects.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
I appreciate the uniqueness of her discography, but she was never very successful, critically or commercially, and accusations of racism have tarnished her cult status. Falls a little short of other 1970s folk-rock artists we don’t have, like, , and , and is included within the  article.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 04:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Irish country singer. Stands out for his chart consistency, but not much else.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  19:11, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
We have excluded several musicians due to their lack of commercial success despite some critical recognition and influence. But what about the opposite? Let’s test this on someone whose lede admits he was “not a favorite artist of music critics”.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) His commercial success and popularity has been world-wide, and not limited to his country of origin. We shouldn't only list critical darlings. Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove
Similar to the above. Possible classic rock bias.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * 1) I agree that there is likely a bias towards classic rock, but I say this one crosses the bar based on the impact of, which has been inducted into the National Recording Registry for being culturally significant, and is also the best selling song digitally from the twentieth century in the United States. Similar bands from this time like , on the other hand, should be more likely candidates to be removed since they took way longer to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, have sold way less certified units than Journey,  and don't have a song that even the government considers important. λ  Negative  MP1  04:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Per above. A popular artist on several continents, Europe and Asia too and not just North America. Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Discuss

Remove
Similar to the above. Today, he is largely a one-hit wonder, and the claim that he introduced the genre to White audiences has been exaggerated, given that the Beastie Boys went platinum in the 1980s.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
We have too many recent American authors, and this article does not show any evidence of vitality other than a couple minor film adaptations. Only two of his books even have articles, and neither of those articles have any interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) Makkool (talk) 13:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 14:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove
I looked through the "art historians and critics" section and there are currently listed six film historians or theorists. Of them, three are animation historians. If you'd also think that's excessive, we could cut at least one of them. Bendazzi's recognition seems to come from one book Cartoons − 100 Years of Cinema Animation, which "has been considered the definitive work on the subject for animation students and scholars." and seem to have had a much more broad output and could be considered more vital than Bendazzi.


 * Support
 * 1) Makkool (talk) 13:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 14:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Seems also less vital than the not-listed Michael Barrier. I've heard of Barrier, Beck and Canemaker but not of Bendazzi (who also has the fewest pageviews, at ~3 a day).-- Laukku  TheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 20:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) per above.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove
Above, I nominated because all he had going for him was being moderator of Meet the Press for a long time. This guy had an even shorter tenure and similarly has no other reason to be on the list. Only 5 interwikis.


 * Support
 * 1) As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Neutral


 * Discuss

Remove
Removal was suggested above.
 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 22:55, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:02, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Obscure figure with almost zero impact on society.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 13:12, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Makkool (talk) 13:49, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Remove
Seems like a cool guy, but that doesn't make him vital, zero interwikis. I don't think being a "superfan" of something would ever be enough on its own to warrant being here.
 * Support
 * 1) As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 22:55, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  03:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per nominator.  The  Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 13:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 4) Not vital Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add System of a Down
Surprised they aren't listed, probably one of the most well known and influential metal bands of the 2000s. Their album Toxicity was a major hit, especially the lead single "Chop Suey". They've also had numerous other popular songs across their other albums. Certainly they are a lot bigger and more well known than some of the other acts listed at this level. Maykii (talk) 02:43, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Support
 * 1) as nom. Maykii (talk) 02:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Discuss
 * 1) <sub style="border:1px solid #FFCC00;"> pbp  03:43, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 2) You need a more convincing rationale to demonstrate how these guys are V5 worthy, a level that should only have the few hundred most important musicians and bands. Them being "a lot bigger and more well known than some of the other acts listed at this level" really doesn't mean anything when a lot of those acts are probably subject to removal themselves. I don't even see how these guys are more important than the recently removed . λ  Negative  MP1  04:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 3) Per NegativeMP1. There are too many popular musicians and we can only really list the really elite ones.  starship  .paint  (RUN) 09:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Add
“She became known internationally for her discoveries in Jurassic marine fossil beds in the cliffs along the English Channel at Lyme Regis in the county of Dorset, Southwest England. Anning's findings contributed to changes in scientific thinking about prehistoric life and the history of the Earth.”
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 13:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
French physicist best known for her discovery of.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 13:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
German astronomer who is regarded as one of the most prolific women scientists of the 18th century.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 13:0, 22 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss

Add
American geneticist credited with discovering sex chromosomes.
 * Support
 * 1) As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 13:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose


 * Discuss