Wikipedia talk:WikiCup/Archive/2009/10

WikiCup goes Judge-less! (for a few days)
So, it seems Garden will be away from August 1st-15th. I'll be away from August 7th-15th. Thehelpfulone is still on a long Wikibreak for personal reasons. That means that you will not be getting a newsletter for the first week of Round 4, unfortunately. I think you'll all live, though. One of us should be around on Sunday, August 16th to get the second week's newsletter done. So while we're gone, I've asked User:X! to just look over the place and make sure nothing breaks (lol).  iMatthew  talk   at 01:34, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yay, we can all misbehave and do naughty things! But don't worry, I won't smash anything! [[File:Smile.png]] -- can  dle &bull; wicke  04:08, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

82?
82 points from editing in what, 3/4 days? If that is going to be how this final round ends up, then I really think that there is going to be a major problem. WikiCup is supposed to be content. It takes a lot of work putting together actual content, but not much to put forth mass edits. If Sasata is going to get what looks to be at least 615 points in one month for this, I for one refuse to acknowledge him as being a participant within the Cup, let alone anyone who makes it into the final round or places. That is the equivalent to 12 Featured articles or 20 GAs, just from mass edits. By the way, many of his edits are things like "Added Index Fungorum external link", making redirects, or other stuff that doesn't add anything to the actual content of the article. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If it makes you feel any better, Ottava, estimate what fraction of a point came from stringing each bead for this necklace. These things are about a millimeter wide; I may need to visit the ophthamologist. ;)  Durova 288 19:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, since you said that you weren't going to list it for FPC, then you get 0 points for that picture. :P Ottava Rima (talk) 19:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is that humour? To me it seems like an extreme reaction to ostracise Sasata for contributing too much to Wikipedia. But maybe it's because I am not viewing this as a personal contest... -- can  dle &bull; wicke  19:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Spamming external links to a series of pages 800 times in three days is not contributing. I'm sorry, but if you don't understand that, then I have nothing to say to you. His actions are clearly inappropriate and amount to nothing less than a cheap tactic. It would be impossible to match his -spam edits- by content contribution alone in one month. To allow him to do such is a mockery of this whole system. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually worth a question, should simply uploading a free license photo (it'd have to be confirmed free license, obv) used in an article get you some points? This picture, File:Chess board opening staunton.jpg (which I uploaded), and other similar images provide significant EV to Wiki regardless of any Featured (or Valued, as suggested for next year) status. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Let me make this clear - I will not acknowledge Sasata as a participant in the WikiCup with his "mainspace contributions". Everyone else can declare on their own if they will or will not. This is my feelings on the matter. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I am completely happy with your non-acceptance of my participation. Does that mean you'll stop talking about me now? :) (p.s. from the project page: "The purpose of the cup is to encourage mainspace editing and make editing fun here on Wikipedia." italics mine) Sasata (talk) 20:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't help but agree with Ottava that it's a cheap tactic. We're supposed to encourage mainspace editing, yes. But, it's not supposed to encourage adding a template to 300 pages and getting 30 points for it. Adding a template to 300 pages shouldn't be worth the same amount of points as a GA, IMO. It would be very nice if Sasata would mark those kind of edits as minor, but if s/he won't, I don't think I can't stop it. :-/ (Comment not intended to be a dig at Sasata, btw).  iMatthew  talk   at 21:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Repetitive edits should receive the same amount of points as minor edits. Nergaal (talk) 21:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Simple solution


 * The problem is, they aren't minor edits, and it would be incorrect to mark them as such. It's also impossible to mark a new page creation or redirect as minor. Sorry if y'all don't like my edits, but it's part of a long term plan to get several thousand fungal taxon articles to start-class or higher. I have to access several different on-line databases to extract this information, and it's most efficient for me to do one task (i.e., 1 small addition to an article), save, move to the next batch of articles, and repeat ad nauseum until finished. Sasata (talk) 21:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Do huggle edits count? Huggle is a script. If they do not count, then Sasata's script should not count. He uses this to mass edit in links in the external links section. This can be verified here. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't we go through this before? The only "script" I use is fingers, brain, and coffee. I don't even know what you're showing me with those pages. What do you think they're supposed to mean? Sasata (talk) 21:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You have a script that could easily do this, and the timing does not match doing it by hand. Furthermore, your excuse last time was very dubious. But it doesn't actually matter - your edits are not content, they are spam. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All these "spam" edits add useful and appropriate content to the pages I'm editing, and I challenge you to give me some examples of edits that don't. I know you "luv the dramah", but your constant accusations of me using a script are annoying, and your refusal to accept my explanations is something that you'll have to deal with on your own. Sasata (talk) 21:59, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't really work for this round, but for future WikiCup's couldn't the value of individual edits be further toned down? Like make all simple edits worth .01 points? Even the best of spammers couldn't do much with that, even getting away with hundreds of edits would only yield a few points. The less mainspace edits are worth the more people will have to focus on generating content, the supposed goal of this Cup. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yet Ottava is now both winning and the most upset. @Staxringold: I don't think the bot can count that or something. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  22:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I just mean count the same edits for less points. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Just my two cents, but you don't have to use a script to go fast; I've reached 15-20 edits/minute (wasn't trying for speed, just time constraints) simply using copy and paste... and a fast browser. :)  JJ (talk) 00:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By "winning" you mean I have two GAs and an FA? The FA took over 8 months to complete. The two GAs also took a long time to complete. These edits took only a few minutes at most. There is a huge difference. I am here to compete against people who are putting forth actual content and not gaming the system to show that they can produce content. The above is spamming, just as those gaming whatever processes would be inappropriate. Is it bad for me to demand people respecting what this competition is about? I will not acknowledge any ill gotten points. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

My two cents: adding a template to 300 pages probably shouldn't equal a GA. However, it does help the encyclopedia, and this is for fun, so why not? — Ed   (Talk  •  Contribs)  07:12, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I really don't see a problem with these edits, they are helping the encyclopedia and I really can't see any problems with them, I mean Durvora noms tons of FP's and no one complains (She's also in first as of now because of that). Also, Ottava remember to AGF and to try to stay civil, the amount of points you get from edits is very little anyways, also also remember that this is a friendly competition about helping the encyclopedia and it really doesn't matter who wins because the whole beneficiary is supposed to be the encyclopedia, and arguing about peoples points doesn't really help anyone and it only serves to make people angry at each other and to add drama which takes tons of time of away from editing/content building.  All the Best, Mifter (talk) 14:31, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if you think digital image restoration amounts to cheap points then you're welcome to fire up Photoshop or Gimp and duplicate it. Durova 298 15:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * How is cutting down the writing and removing yellow content building? Nergaal (talk) 17:20, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Mifter - listing one category at a time across thousands of articles is not helping the encyclopedia. This is a content competition. That means actually spending time and writing content. DYK, GAs, and FAs all take a lot of time in writing. FP and FS take a lot of time that cannot even be seen on Wiki. As you can see, he is able to get about 300 edits per day, which is the equivalent of one GA. 300 categories is -not- the same as one GA or anything close. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * And I don't think working on a picture for several hours is worth as much as (right now it is actually worth more than) a GA and working on it for a couple of days, OR working on FLs with the new requirements in place. I understand it is expensive, but restoration of pictures is not truly content building. IF it were about A NEW animation or graphics, or map or whatever sure, it is actually work, but restoring by playing a touch-up artist should not be rewarded as high as it is now. It is exactly the equivalent of whatever Satsa is doing now. Nergaal (talk) 17:19, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you actually look at the imges, you'll see the one on the left is covered in dirt and crud that makes the underlying image very hard to see. This is not the case with Durova's restoration. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 187 FCs served 00:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nergaal, this is one of the doors digital image restoration is opening for Wikipedia.Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-08-10/Tropenmuseum_partnership Durova 298 00:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A bot or a script can do what Sasata is doing right now. A bot or a script cannot examine something and change pixel by pixel to clean up damage to an image. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:22, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a faulty analogy. Image clean-up increases the EV of the image from a tattered, dirty image into a clean and pretty one that you can actually understand and identify the subject. Sticking a category or some external link into a load of articles does not increase EV in any way shape or form. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm biased because I love fungi, but I just want to defend Sasata here. His mass edits have improved Wikipedia's coverage of fungi no end- we now have articles on so many genera and species that we didn't cover at all before, and all are well referenced to respected literature, with full taxoboxes, useful external links, appropriate categories and so on. On top of that, Sasata has contributed a fantastic number of did you knows, has written a comparable number of fungal GAs/FAs to everyone else put together. He has even taken photographs of a high enough quality to be promoted to featured status. WikiCup or no WikiCup, I consider Sasata one of the best content contributors on Wikipedia. I don't think he does anything in an attempt to cheat the WikiCup; his only motive is to improve our encyclopedia. J Milburn (talk) 21:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You do realize that he could write them without spamming each and every category one at a time to over inflate his mainspace count and be like the rest of us who feel that such gross behavior is unacceptable, right? And if he isn't doing it to get an unfair advantage, why is he doing it at all? Ottava Rima (talk) 21:59, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

WikiVoices meets the WikiCup?
Now that we're down to eight participants, how would the participants and judges feel about holding a Skypecast to discuss the WikiCup? Microphones not needed (but nice if you have them). Just a roundtable discussion to last about an hour. If you're interested please suggest a date and time. Durova 288 04:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't have a mic, but certainly interested in listening in. Lets say Saturday August 22nd. Can't come up with a time... let's see where everyone lives and a time good for everyone.  iMatthew  talk   at 21:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Time zones

 * San Diego: US Pacific time. Durova 293 16:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * US Eastern time.  iMatthew  talk   at 21:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * GMT. Ain't got no mic.  GARDEN  16:44, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

FA at 50 points
Maybe we should up the points for FAs next year&mdash;it can be easy to get multiple GAs through if you write on a limited topic (heck, I did that with Design A-150 battleship and a couple others), but to get a FA on the same thing would be exceptional. In my view, FAs should be worth 70–75–80 points, as they are certainly more than twice the work of a GA. Take a look at North Carolina-class battleship, more than a month in the making. It takes a lot. — Ed   (Talk  •  Contribs)  07:12, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. I think after this year, we'll hold a poll to see what everyone thinks the correct point value of each item should be.  iMatthew  talk   at 10:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I would say this is worth applying to everything. Up the value of anything like FSs and FAs that are tougher/rarer, maybe lower something like FL (you could really get almost infinite FL if you took a bit of time doing random Awards/Nominations and Discographies) and I would say lower mainspace edits to .01 (and eliminate point values for minors, or make them like .001). Staxringold talkcontribs 12:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

There will be two months after this year's cup finishes to discuss next year's point system. Let's hold things off until then; we'll have more people commenting at that stage. Durova 294 17:00, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, you make a good point. :-) Apologies for that. Cheers, — Ed   (Talk  •  Contribs)  19:25, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * FLs are still a bit hard to do and for certain users as myself who usually stays with sports, getting an FA is very hard in pro wrestling since it is complicating to explain clearly, and the sports section of GAN is always long and reviews are rare. I feel the amount of points for FLs is just right at the moment.-- Will C  03:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think mainspace edits should be .01, that seems very low, because in my opinion, that makes it practically useless point wise for a user to go out and improve an article from a stub to maybe a B class article or to create some small content. Because you'd need 100 of those edits just to get 1 point which doesn't make any sense at all.  And I think the same could go for minor edits, they are fine as they are now, I really don't see the big deal about people thinking regular edits shouldn't be counted, creating Featured Content/Good Content isn't everything, some articles simply don't have enough information readily available on them to make FA/GA but that doesn't mean they aren't notable and don't deserve their own article, and I feel that lowering the point value of those edits would really keep participants in the cup away from those type of articles even when those type of articles are generally the ones that need the most work due to a lack of common info about them because they might be a more obscure topic.  As the current changes are proposed, I feel that we are trying to force participants into a small group of articles that have lots of info about them a large topic base to draw on while pulling them away from more obscure topics that need more work because they may not be able to get a GA/FA from them.  Best, Mifter (talk) 14:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Retirement
Hi all, dropping by with an announcement. Due to commitments that are shifting more from direct contribution to volunteer outreach (such as this), I will probably be retiring from the WikiCup after this year's Cup ends. Call this announcement definite if I finish first, likely otherwise. It's been a great deal of fun being part of the Cup; wishing everyone the best. Durova 297 20:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Would it be appropriate for the Wiki Lollipop Guild to sing "Ding dong the Wiki Witch is dead"? ^__^ Ottava Rima (talk) 21:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm, maybe I'll restore the Wicked Witch next... Another 35 points! Durova 297 21:27, 6 August 2009 (UTC) Cackle

[[File:Pickering - Greatbatch - Jane Austen - Pride and Prejudice - She then told him what Mr. Darcy had voluntarily done for Lydia.jpg|thumb|220px| Scene from 2010: Ottava Rima: But you said you weren't going to join this year! I was convinced I'd win!

Durova: Pride and Prejudice goeth before a fall. Or illustrations thereof.]]
 * I present to you... a scene from 2010. And now I must hide. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 188 FCs served 09:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm confused - am I supposed to be Mr Darcy or Elizabeth in that picture. :D Ottava Rima (talk) 14:15, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Mr. Darcy isn't in that image. Are you suggesting an incestuous version of Pride and Prejudice? Shoemaker's Holiday Over 188 FCs served 14:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Um... that is supposed to be her dad on the left? ... that is one of the worse depictions of him I've seen then. Blah. The posturing is of a young man - the hands, the shoulders, the way the feet are. His balding would be different if he was a man of daughters of Elizabeth's age. Plus, her father was normally more composed and sat more often, as to emphasize the character type. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * First illustrated edition. Don't blame me, blame this for being historically important, despite its flaws. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 188 FCs served 14:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Me in the WikiCup
I'd probably have a whole lot more points by now, if it weren't for the fact that I seem to be the only person closing Featured pictures, so mine are languishing. Also, I got two content credits that I don't count because I had little interaction with them besides nominating. Oh, well! Just have to wait for my sets to be finished and nominate them. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 187 FCs served 19:39, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * From what I see, it looks like you have one that is a guarantee close as pass. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Aye. But that one was supposed to have been closed three days ago. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 187 FCs served 20:35, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Sounds
I had a couple featured sounds promoted, but not ones I've had much of a hand in getting to Wikipedia. Do you think it'd be alright to claim one? I certainly have no intention of claiming for all the dozen or so parts of the two nominations. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 192 FCs served 17:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't tried to claim credit on any FPs I didn't actually restore. There doesn't seem to be any rule about grab-and-run points though.  Durova 305 18:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We should probably get some kind of opinion on this. I personally would not condone "grab-and-run" points, even if FPC and FSC are the only real areas that this is a concern (FAC requires you to be a significant contribution, although admittedly GAN and ITN don't).  GARDEN  19:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the Whitman's about to pass, but it's a little frustrating, as you can imagine. Of course, the main reason I'm doing hit-and-run FSCs is to try and keep the process active in the hopes others will participate. Of course, Walt Whitman's ready to promote, so I'll have a non-hit-and-run soon. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 195 FCs served 19:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There should probably be some kind of minimum level. There are a few people that are nominating work that they didn't do en masse. It is one thing if there was involvement with an item that helped get it listed -beyond- just putting it up on a process. If there was a ruling, then it would have to be retroactive and would change quite a few point variables. Ottava Rima (talk) 02:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't included any ITNs which I haven't in some way edited so that's how I've been doing it anyway. I don't submit other people's DYKs ever unless I've done something with them so there's just my own there too. GAs if any are all brought to that level by me. What work are the "few people" doing "en masse"? -- can  dle &bull; wicke  14:06, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There was a rash of bulk nominations at a non-ITN process in which the individual nominating did nothing in regards to the page. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I rather hate to say this, but I do have to feel that, after learning a major skill and buying quite a lot of books to scan for FPC, it does seem a bit devaluing that points can be gotten, identical to mine, for someone with no more connection to the work than "saw it, liked it". Can we make a ruling on whether such things should be allowed? And, let me point out that if, to keep things even, I did claim poitns for things I had no connection to - well, on Featured sounds, we have a lack of nominators, so I make it a point to try and have things up much of the time.

Beethoven's Diabelli variations just passed.

Which is 16 audio files.

That's 560 points right there, and 595 if you include the other nomination I have no connection with. This means that if I wanted to, I could rocket myself to the lead. However, if other people are going to be allowed drive-by noms, then for what reason am I holding back? Shoemaker's Holiday Over 197 FCs served 00:03, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Scoring system
I've been toying with creating a version of this project for the Aviation WikiProject, in order to promote participation and article improvement there. I was wondering how you got things set up to have the bot automatically keep score. If it's not too difficult, I'd like to use it (with a few modifications) to score our contest. Do you think this is possible? -  Trevor  MacInnis   contribs  19:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It may be easier to copy Milhist's contest format. — Ed   (Talk  •  Contribs)  23:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you are really interested it would be best to ask to do it for you - he wrote this bot and is a very helpful guy.  GARDEN  22:22, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

proposal for next year
I think there should be a cap for each category of points above which the points received should only count 50% or so. I don't think somebody should be able to win the wikicup ONLY because they restored a zillion of pictures, without bothering to create any sots of content, or even slightly contributing to other sections of wikipedia. Nergaal (talk) 17:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There's seven different ways to get credit from Article writing: Mainspace edits, DYK, ITN, GA, FA, GT, and FT. There's also the related FL. Given that, how on earth would this cap work? What I'd prefer is giving a bonus for the first of each type of content - maybe 50 points per type. This encourages people to try diverse processes. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 200 FCs served 17:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That's a fine point, but how many people do you think google/search on wikipedia how the capitol might have looked in 1814 and how many do you think care about cartoons. They are both fine submissions but if this is indeed a Wikicup, it should reward users who contribute in every field, not just in renovating pictures, and perhaps some edits to an article. Nergaal (talk) 18:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * One of my FAs was on Creatures of Impulse, a very obscure Victorian play. Should I have gotten fewer Wikicup points for it? Shoemaker's Holiday Over 200 FCs served 19:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You realize that that is not the point I was trying to make. Probably most of the things nominated here are obscure at best, but the cup should not aim at incentivizing people to work only on limited-usfulness-stuff. If one keeps restoring relatively pointless pictures all day without doing pretty much anything else, and then wins the WikiCup do you think this would actually bring prestige to the WikiCup award? Nergaal (talk) 20:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * On a side-note, core and vital articles should receive double/triple the regular points. Nergaal (talk) 20:44, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Relatively. Pointless. Pictures. Okay, WP:IDON'TLIKEIT. Got it. Don't think there's any point continuing this discussion. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 200 FCs served 20:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Nergaal, most of the topics you suggest are very biased towards "traditional" article editing and that is expressly not what this is for. Yes, it's a content contest and we are an encyclopedia after all, but areas like FPC, ITN and in particular FSC are essentially overlooked by much of the community and this contest is helping with that.  I for one would like to kill off the feeling that FAs are the be all and end all of Wikipedia's featured content and think that, used better than it is currently, the WikiCup can change that and encourage collaboration in underlooked areas of the project.  Respectfully.  However, I do like the "bonus points for the first item" idea.  That could force people from doing the same thing over and over.  GARDEN  21:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow, might as well ping directly when a criticism is code for Durova. During the WikiCup I have also contributed a good article, four featured sounds, and nineteen DYKs, which most people would accept as contributing "even slightly". At the rate things are going I will probably retire after this year because more time is getting spent interfacing directly with cultural institutions. There's a world of significant material which has never been digitized.

This is the closest the United States ever came to losing a war to a foreign power on its own soil. It's one thing to read the words "They burned Washington", another to see the capitol itself with a charred facade and collapsed roof. The official Library of Congress record states "George Munger's drawing, one of the most significant and compelling images of the early republic, reminds us how short-lived the history of the United States might have been." It's images such as this one which are persuading more institutions to digitize in high resolution. I might fall behind and lose the Cup; the Tropenmuseum of Amsterdam launches its first collaborative exhibit with WMF at its physical galleries in November and I've committed to leading the digital restorations. Durova 306 15:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

ST47 is missing :(


As you may be aware, bot updates haven't been done in a week or so. ST47's bot seems to have been turned off, and he isn't replying to talk page messages. While there aren't any updates, I'm not bothering to make a newsletter, because there would be no updates. Very sorry for the inconvenience, hopefully it's fixed soon.  iMatthew  talk  • take my poll  at 00:06, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * How then is it to be decided who progresses? Shall we just continue with no eliminations? :D :D :D :D :D -- can  dle &bull; wicke  02:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The eliminations aren't until the end of September. Hopefully he's back before then!  iMatthew  talk   at 12:16, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And if he isn't?Mitch32(Want help? See here!) 15:05, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If he isn't, then Cup is award to me by default.  Shappy   talk  16:35, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree. Give it to Shappy by default. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  02:59, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ...Sounds like a bad day on Family Feud.Mitch32(Want help? See here!) 03:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know much about that and had to check what it was. TV game show I think? -- can  dle &bull; wicke  03:05, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Its the Sale of the Century, now you get my point?Mitch32(Want help? See here!) 03:07, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've never heard of that either but am going to guess that it relates to the relative ease with which Shappy would be crowned winner. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  03:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Cough - article contrib is a fail way of determining contributions. It isn't a major loss. :) Ottava Rima (talk) 03:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope you covered your mouth - what isn't a major loss? I don't understand that either. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  03:43, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Possible withdrawal
Due to a crisis that's not quite happening yet, but which looks very, very likely to happen, it looks like I may end up not able to work on Wikipedia for a bit. Please ask at the end of this leg, and don't forward me to the four-person leg without my express confirmation. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 202 FCs served 10:35, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Erm, alright then. Remember of course that this leg ends on the 30th of September.  Good luck with sorting out the imminent enigmatic crisis however.  GARDEN  18:43, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Note to all competing
Could you please manually update any new submissions you make into the contest at the scoring page? (i.e., click edit next to "Pool A".) It would be a great help... I would suggest using X!'s counter to count mainspace but obviously that won't differentiate mainspace from other spaces as well as minor from major... sorry...  GARDEN 18:51, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah OK, so everybody just guesses their own scores and inserts a number then... makes sense. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  22:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely there's an edit counter that differentiates between major and minor edits? Not sure there is one that filters out edits with tools though... J Milburn (talk) 22:06, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, added two new featured picture promotions. Not paying much attention to mainspace, but for reference which date and hour did the bot stop tracking?  Durova 308 21:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I call dibs to determine both mine and Durova's mainspace count. Mwah ha ha ha! Ottava Rima (talk) 22:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, so all the featured content/DYK type submissions have to be added now? And we have to do it ourselves? (Just to clarify, I am allowed to edit my score and will not receive shouts of anger for such an action? And a "judge" is requesting that this be done?) Is this all written down somewhere? -- can  dle &bull; wicke  04:02, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyone who wishes to review my addition is welcome to check the submission page; am updating everything there. Durova 308 04:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * <-- Candle, yes, that is the scenario, at least until ST47 becomes active again. I am placing a significant amount of trust in the final eight and while I'll try to check your point totals are correct I'm sure nobody is going to cheat in that way this late on.  At least I hope not.  GARDEN  22:04, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Does X mark the spot?
So, while on IRC, I approached Wikipedia's BotKing (User:X!) about coding one of his SoxBots to take over the WikiCup bot tasks. I explained what ST47's bot did, and he thinks he can do it for us. Let's keep our fingers crossed!  iMatthew  talk   at 00:01, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It does! We have a new WikiCup bot!
User:X!'s SoxBot is not now running WikiCup bot updates every six hours! Thank you X!!  iMatthew  talk   at 23:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * "...is not running..." Fail. :P — Ed   (Talk  •  Contribs)  23:47, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha! I meant "now." lol  iMatthew  talk   at 23:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Minor problem being worked on ...  iMatthew  talk   at 23:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Minor problem fixed. ( X! ·  talk )  · @044  · 00:03, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

A renewed offer
Anyone who wants to learn digital restoration is welcome to contact me for coaching and beginner material. There's more to be done than I can accomplish alone, particularly in light of a recent cache of historic photography obtained by the Swedish WMF chapter. Will gladly share. Durova 310 15:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * raises hand* ( X! ·  talk )  · @043  · 00:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Coolness. Email me for my Skype ID; let's get started. :)  Durova 312 16:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Durova, if you have the time, I'd also be interested in learning to use GIMP, and I'd love to restore some older pictures. J Milburn (talk) 19:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Just so you're fully aware, I don't actually use GIMP (although I have a manual for it and can look up questions). Shoemaker's Holiday is our local GIMP expert.  Most of the functions from Photoshop do have GIMP analogs, so it's usually worked out pretty well whichever software is in use.  Am still waiting for X!'s email (please resend if that's been tried already).  Basically what we do is bring people into the WikiVoices channel where most of the restorationists hang out.  Microphones aren't required, but are very helpful (a cheap $10 microphone usually works fine).  Very convenient to fullscreen the image software while chatting in voice, and trade files and screenshots as needed.  Durova 317 19:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Mainspace points and new pages patrol
Been helping with the back end of new pages patrol since DragonflySixtyseven left for a very well-deserved break. In case that raises any eyebrows about mainspace edit count, let's discuss in advance. Most of these edits are Twinkle-assisted templating and prods with the occasional speedy for copyvio. Also light formatting and copyediting (all marked as minor) and adding Category:Living people where appropriate (not marked as minor). Does that sit well? If not, would be amenable to downgrading. Durova 315 19:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Twinkle edits aren't counted by the bot.  iMatthew  talk   at 19:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Further more, anything that is deleted will subsequently be decounted by the bot anyway, so the only points you will be granted will be the formatting work (something which does deserve points) if I understand correctly. J Milburn (talk) 19:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If that's cool with everybody. A fairly small portion of total points anyway.  Just didn't want to rub any fur in the wrong direction.  Thanks for the responses. :)  Durova 315 18:46, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Guess who is at it again
I suppose someone forgot to tell him this is supposed to be for fun. It's great that he wants to improve articles and is providing unsolicited reviews, but the only reason he is doing it is because TheLeftorium is in the wikicup and he'll probably make another push to have him disqualified. Ottava, if you want to spend so much time going over others' work, how about reviewing Matt Groening for me? It's a FAC (although it probably shouldn't be), and needs a good review. -- Scorpion 0422  23:24, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't want to have this discussion again. Please just ignore it, Scorpion0422. I respect Ottava Rima's opinion and I believe his comments have helped me become a better editor.  The left orium  23:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Did I say that Theleftorium should not have points for it? No. I am only scolding a reviewer who did not perform a complete review. They checked grammar and only grammar. Hell, there doesn't even seem to be anything about images or the rest. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:38, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I've also chastised many reviewers at FAC for the same thing. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:40, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, hatchets back in the emergency hold.
 * We'll be safe inside our fortress when they come
 * We'll be safe from creeps and killers when they come
 * Unless they have a blow-torch
 * Or a poison gas injector
 * Then I don't know what'll happen when they come.  GARDEN  19:25, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

October
Just to note, the situation has resolved, and I do not need to drop out of the cup at the end of this month (unless someone beats me) Shoemaker's Holiday Over 206 FCs served 02:12, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

A few things

 * All of those who want to "keep an eye on the competition" (or just participate with conversation relating to next year's cup please watchlist Wikipedia talk:WikiCup/2010 Signups. This is where much of the future discussion should take place.
 * This week's newsletter is done but has not been sent out due to bugs in AWB. It's located at WikiCup/Newsletter/31 if you want to read it, but I'll try to send it again or even manually send it tonight.
 * The Signpost article that should be published at the end of this contest is in development at WikiCup/Signpost Article if you wish to edit it or watchlist it for the future. Any help would be appreciated!  GARDEN  18:13, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for those links; I wasn't watching any of those pages. J Milburn (talk) 18:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem :) <font style="color:#333399;"> GARDEN 18:37, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

And you thought this was just a game
There's a proposal on the strategy Wiki that I think watchers of this page could give informed input to. IMHO after "Keep the servers running" this could be the second most important strategy for the Wikimedia foundation (according to the strategy project at any rate).  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  22:16, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

My score
Sorry about the wildly fluctuating score: I had agreed with Garden and iMatthew to claim 3 credits on the 9-part FS, since I did substantial work on it, but hadn't found it, but I had trouble getting the bot to understand some files didn't count. Should be fixed now. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 208 FCs served 06:05, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, I'm likely to get a lot of points at the start of the 30th. I'm hoping that we're not closing at the end of the 29th. =/ Shoemaker's Holiday Over 208 FCs served 23:30, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you need some more points, I think I can possibly steal some from Durova before she notices. ;/ Ottava Rima (talk) 23:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I have now been told to take all 9, after having my work reviewed. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 208 FCs served 16:34, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Comment
It seems I've all but been eliminated, so I'd like to extend my wishes of good luck to the remaining contestants. May the best cheater editor win... :) – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 01:02, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Just so you all don't get confused
I have been renamed from iMatthew to Islanders27. So, don't think there's a new judge or something. :)  Islanders  27  16:31, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Booooooooooooo! Ottava Rima (talk) 17:18, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * =[  Islanders  27  17:20, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Sasata


Evidently, claiming stuff from May is now a valid way to gain points. Do the rules not even matter anymore?

If this isn't fixed, if we're going to just let anyone get away with any bit of cheating they bloody well care to try, count me out of the cup. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 209 FCs served 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is that cheating? Apparently, she noticed she never submitted it for the round she could have used it in. It was passed in 2009, and since she never received points for it, I don't see how it's cheating.  Islanders  27  23:36, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * So, submitting something from a much less competitive round to a much more competitive round is fine? Effectively having more time than the other competitors to gain points is fine
 * Withdraw me. If rules so basic that they shouldn't need to be said are not even seen by the judges, I don't want to be part of this. Shoemaker's Holiday Over 209 FCs served 23:42, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I okayed with Islanders27 prior to submitting. If it makes you feel better Shoe, I promise to donate all my prize winnings to charity. Sasata (talk) 23:44, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to make a decision like that solo. When Garden is around tomorrow, I'll discuss it with him. Until then, I'm going to remove the points from Sasata.  Islanders  27  23:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

A little more time...
I'm going to wait for the next bot update before I mark the bottom four as eliminated. You still have a very small amount of time to add anything last minute. :)  Islanders  27  00:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, how often does the bot update and how do we contact its operator about bribes? Ottava Rima (talk) 00:08, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe it updates in about an hour, and X! is on a wiki-break. :P  Islanders  27  00:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Or in other words, good luck with that. Useight (talk) 00:37, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Or in other words, the bot just updated.  Islanders  27  00:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)