Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aircraft/Template

Copied from User talk:Xiong:

re: your offer on WT:Air
Hi, Xiong. I'm actually not sure that what we're trying to do with the recent air templates has methods closer to the wikipedia as a whole. The only other project I know of with complex parameter-based templates is WP:Ships, and they had a similar method to what myself and User:Ingoolemo have used.

What we need is a template that will output an aircraft's specifications (for example: User:Ericg/template_test2). It should work with jets or propeller aircraft (or the rare case of both), helicopters or fixed-wing. We also need to be able to specify which type of units, metric or imperial/other, are listed first, as the manufacturer's nation is our 'primary unit' source. Ingoolemo built himself a more advanced version than I, which worked with most types. If you know how to streamline that, drop him a message (or we can take this discussion to the WP:Air page).

-eric &#9992; 07:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * This has the potential to grow very large, so I've created a subpage at WikiProject Aircraft/Template. I'd like to ask you and Ingoolemo to start the ball rolling by writing exactly what goals you are trying to meet. Let's see what we can do together. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 07:46, 2005 August 18 (UTC)

New discussion

Goals
I have enumerated a list of goals, which is naturally not set in stone. I would like to request that discussion be reserved for the talk page. Thanks, Ingoolemo   talk 19:40, 2005 August 18 (UTC)

purpose of aircontent
To clarify the reason I created : In the past we've had some ordering and style changes. In case we change again - back to a table, for example, or if we want to rename sections (similar aircraft vs comparable aircraft is one past example), it's far easier to change it once in the template than track down which of the thousands of aircraft articles use which style and change them all.

I personally think the structure of it at a user's end isn't too difficult, but I'm also a somewhat above-average computer-savvy type. -eric &#9992; 03:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Transclusion vs Substitution and Unsupplied Parameters
Mm. I fully understand your desire to transclude, rather than substitute. You do want to be able to go back and overhaul the format without fiddling with each individual page.

However, the current templates, as I see them, are incredibly difficult to use. This is not the fault of the designers; the template mechanism is very, very limited. Most notably, it has a great shortcoming, in that unsupplied parameters are echoed, thus: &#123;&#123;&#123;1&#125;&#125;&#125;. I can most charitably describe this as dorky, since while many applications of templates need optional parameters, I can't think of any good reason to display a parameter placeholder anywhere.

I want to suggest a solution, but I think you won't like it. See Template talk:Doctl. This template is just a page of boilerplate; it is always substituted as the first action, then re-edited to customize it for a particular purpose. This is much easier for a new user to understand. Of course, once the work is done, its overall format cannot be changed on a hundred pages at once. This is the great thing about transclusion.

The right answer is to gang up on the developer team and get them to suppress output of unused parameters. If anyone from Air is willing to join, I'll do an RfC. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 05:06, 2005 August 19 (UTC)


 * If you do the request in the next 15 or so hours, I'll be able to support - otherwise I won't have internet for the next few days. However, Ingoolemo will undoubtedly, and user:xmnemonic likely will as well. user:rlandmann hasn't been around for a while, but I'm positive he'd support your RfC as well. -eric &#9992; 07:10, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

in the next 15 or so hours -- oh well, this is the wikinow. I'll cook something up. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 02:14, 2005 August 26 (UTC)


 * I'm actually online on and off thanks to school wifi and open access points in the vicinity of my apt. Just link me whenever and I'll be able to support it that day. ;) -eric &#9992; 02:25, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


 * On third thought, this is a much worse problem than I thought at first or second. A more comprehensive overhaul of templates is needed, and I'll have to write it all up. Don't hold your breath, but this is a concern of mine, and has been for some time. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 02:53, 2005 August 26 (UTC)