Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albania/Archive 3

Article
Can you write an article about Anastas Ballamaçi?--Kushtrim123 (talk) 15:16, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Llambro Ballamaci was a Vlach priest from Korca that believed in the Albanian identity of the Vlachs. He was murdered by the Greek forces of the Autonomous Republic of Northern Epirus in 1914. See . He was also one of the first Albanian fotographers. . We'll do this article. -- Sulmues talk   16:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ops you meant Anastas. Any particular reasons about him? -- Sulmues talk   20:13, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Albanian colonisation of Kosovo
Today, this article was created. As far as I can tell, it contains WP:OR and dubious informations. I'm bringing this article to WP:SQ, because it involves Albania and I'm really busy these days, and maybe someone can take a look at it. Cheers.  kedadi al  17:10, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't as I am Kosovo topic banned until June. -- Sulmues talk   20:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

It is being considered for deletion, and anyone who has anything to say should point to Articles for deletion/Albanian colonisation of Kosovo. Cheers.  kedadi al  22:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Naum Veqilharxhi
I need some info about the date of his death. A couple of sources claim he died in 1846, while another source claims he died in the 1850s.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 16:03, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 1846. Sipas edhe pse nuk eshte burim i sigurt. Po une i besoj hipi zhdripit. Duhen keta artikujt per rilindasit ne menyre qe pastaj te kemi informata te mjaftueshme per te ripunuar Rilindja Kombetare. -- Sulmues  talk   13:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Te libri i Miranda Vickers shkruhet qe me 1850 krijoi nje shoqate ne Rumani .-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 16:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Nuk duhet te perdorim shume Vickers-in per 19th century people, pasi ajo the Pettifer jane te specializuar per historin moderne dhe ne nje fare menyre jane tertiary sources. Jo shume reliable per rilindasit. Per rilindasit duhet te perdorim burime sa me shqiptare pasi jane me te sigurtat. Tip Kristo Frasheri, Myslim Islami, po edhe Kurt W. Treptow apo Viorica Moisuc, Ion Calafeteanu  -- Sulmues  talk   16:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Sotir Peçi
Help needed to get to GA.-- Kënga  Jonë 10:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Tracking Articles and Assessing them
It would be nice if instead of adding manually articles on the WikiProject Albania/publicwatchlist, we could just watch them through the Albania TF tag. Now we have 1900+tagged, and in the publicwatchlist there are fewer. Anyone to volunteer to ask an admin for that? SulmuesLet's talk 21:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I forgot to mention before, there is no need to add articles to the WikiProject Albania/publicwatchlist anymore. I frequently update WikiProject Albania/publicwatchlistauto, a page that contains every single article tagged with WP Albania which is then linked to WikiProject Albania/publicwatchlist. Basically, the list at WikiProject Albania/publicwatchlist is obsolete and should only contain articles which are related to Albania but for some reason cannot be tagged with WP Albania. All we have to do now, is to find articles and tag them with WP Albania and changes to these articles will appear to Special:RecentChanges. Cheers.  kedadi al  22:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Right now, there are exactly 2000 articles tagged with WP Albania. Thanks to everyone involved with tagging, you have done an amazing job. Cheers.  kedadi al  22:56, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehe, thanks Kedadi, as always a couple of steps ahead of me. SulmuesLet's talk 04:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * this has 2200+ now. You wanna bet we're going to bring it to 3000 by the end of 2010? --SulmuesLet's talk 12:30, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If we keep hunting for new articles and tag them, then I believe we're going to achieve 3000 within a month or two. Cheers.  kedadi al  18:13, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I bet that we can bring it to 3000 by the end of July 2010.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 18:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, keep hunting and tagging everbody :). Cheers.  kedadi al  18:23, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 2400 :]-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 09:49, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, this is unbelievable; 400 new tagged articles in just 2~3 days. This is amazing. Gëzuar të gjithëve.  kedadi al  16:48, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 08:30-09:30 bera tag rreth 140 artikuj, deri te premten tjeter besoj qe do kemi 3000.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 17:00, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I really think that within 2-3 years this project has the capacity of including ca 4000-5000 articles, however I would be very glad if we tagged 3,000 by the end of 2010. It is a very good objective. The next step or parallel to it is to start assessing the unassessed in the WikiProject_Albania/To_Do_List. We should have at least 90% assessed, but wouldn't you have loved to have "perfect assessment numbers" like the Croatians do? --SulmuesLet's talk 04:07, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Tagged some pics and here we are: 2,785. Don't forget to update continuously using this tool and clicking on "Update Project Data". --SulmuesLet's talk 20:08, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * After I tagged ALL the footballers in the Albanian footballers Category we're getting close to 3K 2,948. I want to cheer the 4K within the end of 2010. Will that be possible? --SulmuesLet's talk 14:25, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

We've officially been over 3K for about 2-3 days now. Congratulations!!! --SulmuesLet's talk 17:55, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Widespread use of nationalist references
Pyrrhus Ruches's books seems to be used many times to source controversial topics and here Talk:Ali Pasha an administrator Future Perfect at Sunrise pointed out that this Ruches is a Greek nationalist and anti-Albanian author. I think that he should be removed as a source in all articles. Your opinion would be welcome.--Kushtrim123 (talk) 16:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you mean this? --SulmuesLet's talk 21:17, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Instead of trying to find out what he said, it'd be better to ask him directly.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 17:40, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Julian Brahja vs Juljan Brahja
It seems that two articles exist regarding the same person, Julian Brahja and Juljan Brahja. One of these probably should be deleted. What do you think? Cheers.  kedadi al  23:23, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think user:Oltianruci should do a merge. He's our best sports contributor. I'll drop him a line. Even though he usually doesn't respond, he gets the job done. --SulmuesLet's talk 01:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oltiani is da man, as I told you. --SulmuesLet's talk 03:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Ethnic Albanians and their relation with WikiProject Albania
I have a question regarding ethnic Albanians, living outside of the borders of present-day Albania, e.g. Albanians in Kosovo, Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia, Albanians in Montenegro, etc. As this WikiProject is about Albania and Albanians, do these articles need to be tagged with  ? I personally support the move. What do you think? Cheers.  kedadi al  00:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I am topic banned for Kosovo so I disclaim my opinion for Albanians in Kosovo, but I support tagging Albania TF for Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia and Albanians in Montenegro and I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be tagged so. Greeks in Albania is tagged for example with Wikiproject Greece. --SulmuesLet's talk 01:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, I guess I wasn't clear enough. I was merely trying to refer to the articles of ethnic Albanians, outside of present-day Albania. Lets say, Nexhmije Pagarusha, Arben Xhaferi, Nikollë Nikprelaj, etc. Thanks.  kedadi al  01:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I will disclaim my opinion on Nexhmije Pagarusha because she is from Kosovo and I am Kosovo topic banned. Since the country task forces relate to Albania country in a strict sense Albania shouldn't cover, however Albanians from Malesia, Chameria and Macedonia are Albanians and the Albania task force should includes all Albanians. This is my personal view. Btw Albanians from Macedonia are extremely poorly represented in Wikipedia and we have to start tagging them first with Albania TF and then start working on those articles and there are plenty. Greece TF covers all topics for the Greek minority of 60k Greeks that live in Albania, I don't know why we shouldn't cover 600k Albanians in Macedonia. The Macedonia TF and Albania TF can cover with a NPOV all Albanians from Macedonia related topics, and so goes for Malesia Albanians (Montenegro part of Malesia).--SulmuesLet's talk 21:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Now I am not Kosovo topic banned and I can include Nexhmije Pagarusha. As a matter of fact I would like to have a consensus between all the participants of Wikiproject Albania through a vote to have all the Albanians tagged with Wikiproject Albania. The Greeks do it for Bishop Eulogios (Kourilas) of Korçë, I don't understand why we shouldn't tag under Wikiproject Albania all the Albanians, whereever they are born. Please leave your vote below --SulmuesLet's talk 16:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Include all Albanians under Wikiproject Albania

 * 1) Pro. Per above. --SulmuesLet's talk 16:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Pro.  kedadi al  16:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Pro.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 16:26, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Stop misusing wikiproject tagging for staking out ethnic territory
Comment: Thank you for coming to our WikiProject talk page. Wikiproject tags are good for tracking an article and they won't waste screen space if a shell is entered. Now who was talking about territory here? There are various reasons why the Albanians should be taken care of first and most by the members of Wikiproject Albania: We can have sources in Albanian, we enjoy Albanian singers better than everyone else, an Albanian wikipedian can track all the Albanian related articles through the WikiProject. Besides that, a stronger collaboration between Kosovo Albanians and Albanians from Albania is warranted when dealing with Albanians from Kosovo. Rather than having Kosovo Albanians deal exclusively with Kosovo people, we'll also have WP Albania as a project for all Albanians. Nothing wrong with that. And I don't think there is anything ridiculous here. --SulmuesLet's talk 18:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) That said, I've never understood what wikiproject tags are good for in the first place. In the best case they are a waste of screen space. The first Wikiproject that completely and voluntarily does away with all talk page tagging gets a Common Sense Barnstar from me. And if you won't do that, at least stop thinking of these tags in terms of "our territory" and "their territory". This whole approach of "if they can have their tag on our article, we will put our tag on theirs" is just ridiculous. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:28, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject
Isn't it an idea to create an prominent squad of the most active members, maybe a group of 5 persons, so people can understand fast where to send any question or problem? --Vinie007 14:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * We all know that in the last month, Vinie, ZjarriRrethues, Kedadi, Oltianruci, and I have been the most active. I actually Endorse this suggestion as it would be very helpful to new Albanian contributors to go quickly to someone and get guidance. Many Albanians have been reported for edit-warring because they have received little Wiki guidance. We would like to avoid that by properly showing Albanian wikipedians the rules of Wikipedia and at the same time making them feel at home. I guess a little section should be presented in the members' section to show users that have had more than 100 edits in the last month or so. --SulmuesLet's talk 03:26, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I made these edits to update for the users who are active in this project. If a user doesn't contribute to the Albanian WikiProject, although active in other projects, that user shouldn't be on the active list. --SulmuesLet's talk 20:56, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Polyphonic song of Epirus
I uploaded Southern Albanian songs on Polyphonic song of Epirus. Please see if they are NPOV. Also please check my translations: names such as "Dile moj te dalte rrenja" are not the easiest translations. Thank you and enjoy!--SulmuesLet's talk 03:14, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Albanian and Greek wikipedians cooperation board
In the light of what has happened in the last two years I propose that we build a Albanian and Greek wikipedians cooperation board similar to the Greek and Turkish wikipedians cooperation board. We should build a wall of trust and cooperation that will make our contributions in wikipedia long standing and not edit-warred. --SulmuesLet's talk 03:18, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree Aigest (talk) 13:27, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. Please go see if you can give your contributions there and let's hope that this board will reduce the number of Albanians that are booted because they don't find the guidance that would be necessary to avoid edit-warring. --SulmuesLet's talk 00:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

On a related note, I really don't think that Aigest deserved any restriction, but I am looking at the positive light of it: we all focus on articles that have nothing to do with the Greeks for a while and make some new articles, rather than wasting times on disputes. If our articles are edited by Greek editors, please use the board and avoid reverting as much as possible until end of June. --SulmuesLet's talk 01:39, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

History of the Albanian people 2002 edition
You can find it here. I think this is the first tome and contains 435 pages and can be used as a source. -- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 18:08, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, I would have edited so much more had I had this. Thank you so much Zjarri! --SulmuesLet's talk 02:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Aman na gjej edhe volumet e tjera pasi 1714 revolt of Chameria eshte ne AfD tani. Vellimi i pare ka vetem kohen deri te Skenderbeu--SulmuesLet's talk 07:24, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Vendi që zë Skënderbeu në Historinë e Shqipërisë
Also online at VENDI QË ZË SKËNDERBEU NË HISTORINË E SHQIPERISË Abas Ermenji. --SulmuesLet's talk 20:22, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

List of the victims of the Albanian communist regime
Please help with your contributions in expanding it. --SulmuesLet's talk 11:34, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons
The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons (UBLPs) aims to reduce the number of unreferenced biographical articles to under 30,000 by June 1, primarily by enabling WikiProjects to easily identify UBLP articles in their project's scope. There were over 52,000 unreferenced BLPs in January 2010 and this has been reduced to 32,665 as of May 16. A bot is now running daily to compile a list of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at WikiProject Albania/Unreferenced BLPs. As of May 17 you have approximately 82 articles to be referenced, a 1.2% reduction from last week. The list of all other WikiProject UBLPs can be found at WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 17:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the heads up. I remember an admin getting in the deletion spree in February and deleting unreferenced BLP articles. We have 82 unreferenced articles, and should work on them so that they don't get deleted. I notified user:Oltianruci for the soccer players, the rest we should be able to take care. --SulmuesLet's talk 21:08, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Bua Thopia
According to the article's present form it's obvious that it doesn't meet wp:notable. If there isn't any information about him to be found it will go to afd in a couple of days.Alexikoua (talk) 22:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * See user:Balkanian`s word's spiel at talk page at Bua Thopia.

(sorry Sulmues) Article still needs to be improved on material that meets wp:verify.Alexikoua (talk) 18:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Assessment: Get rid of unassessed!!!
I think that at now ~3K articles tagged, we need to have as a priority assessing (something that user:Vinie007 started doing a couple of months ago and then he was told to stop). We have more than 1 thousand articles completely unassessed. I think we should have NOTHING unassessed and have at least assessed as "stub" or "start". Please go to Unassessed Albania Articles and start assessing. Help yourselves with this tool in order to make a good assessment. In fundis see this for the last assessed articles. --SulmuesLet's talk 16:15, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I assessed roughly 150 articles today and brought the number to less than 1K see here We'll need to bring all unassessed to Stub (or Start) and then start upgrading from Start to C and then from C to B. --SulmuesLet's talk 20:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Here] is how we stand as compared with the other projects. --SulmuesLet's talk 00:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sulmues, we can use User:Xenobot_Mk_V and the bot will do the assessment for our WikiProject in an automated fashion. What do you think? Cheers.  kedadi al  18:31, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with it, but my understanding is that it'll work only on talk pages that have the stub template in the article page. If any of us did 100 articles each we'd be done in a couple of weeks for the next 600 articles that are left. If no one wants to take a shot at them, I'll do them all sooner or later. --SulmuesLet's talk 00:52, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems that it will ease our job at least for stub articles. Other articles require human attention for rating. Cheers.  kedadi al  16:28, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please feel free to use the bot for the stubs and what not. --SulmuesLet's talk 16:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Massacre of Hormova
Help needed to get to GA-- Kënga  Jonë 17:34, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Great!Balkanian`s word (talk) 17:44, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Article's gone for afd.Alexikoua (talk) 18:55, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

And now it's in ANI. Reliable_sources/Noticeboard--SulmuesLet's talk 18:31, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that it was deleted because the Greek users gathered many votes.-- Kënga  Jonë 15:49, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, we had Greeks, Serbians, Montenegrins, and Romanians vote against it. Not one single Balkanian (not Albanian) voted for it. It's the history of our AfDs. Next time make sure to use your vote properly, KengaJone, because it didn't count: you have to write Keep. Check this. In addition, you have to start an article well prepared with secondary sources, or ask for help here at the talk page of the WikiProject. --SulmuesLet's talk 14:37, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * For the record: it's not about Kenga's vote, there were also Delete votes that were not counted in this [] (everyone knows that his tool has problems). But that wasn't crucial for the afd at all, as the closing admin explained, it wasn't a minority/majority case.

Please, wikipedia isn't a good vs villains place but a united project.Alexikoua (talk) 15:30, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Alexikoua, aren't you surprized that there wasn't one single Albanian to vote for the deletion of the article or another Balkanian/Non Albanian to vote for keeping it? It seems like it's not that united a project, that's why we have WP Countries. And I was very upset that many of the Greek team, who had been idle for awhile (see Megistias and Michael X the White), showed up to support deletion of the article. I was also surprized that you started to tendentiously assume bad faith and flag every single citation asking for verifications. On top of that you minimized the photos and a monument raised on the site of Hormove. Don't patronize at least in the Albanian Wikiproject, because you deserted the Greco-Albanian collaboration board. --SulmuesLet's talk 18:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion
Who can put a link to the main page our Albania Wikiproject of WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Albania? I'm asking the techies because I'm nothing but a prosaic wikipedian. --SulmuesLet's talk 16:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't really understand the question. Articles related to Albania that are nominated for deletion, do appear on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albania/publicwatchlist, if that's what you're asking. Cheers.  kedadi al  22:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for not being clear. I meant to put it in the main page of the Wikiproject Albania. Like the Germans do see here. As a matter of fact, I really think our project should be similar to the German project, resembling an article page and be as simple as possible. Ours is way too complicated and seems to be extremely nationalistic. I like red and black don't get me wrong, but they are too much in Wikipedia where neutrality is warranted. Still not everyone will be pleased with proposals of new formats, so I'm just throwing my two cents. --SulmuesLet's talk 16:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

AfD comment tracking
Editors are encouraged to add new AfDs on WikiProject_Albania/publicwatchlist. This way, it will be easier to track comments made by other editors on any of the AfDs listed there. After the AfD has been closed, it can be safely removed. Cheers.  kedadi al  16:36, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Tagging of Articles with WikiProject Serbia
I saw some Albanian articles, tagged unusually with WikiProject Serbia (Balli Kombetar for eg). Can anybody check the reason for this action? Aigest (talk) 10:23, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Someone used the bot to add the wpsr tag on every article containing words related to Serbia. The best solution to this issue is to remove the tags manually.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 14:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, we have to remove WPSR manually as such tag is unnecessary. Cheers.  kedadi al  22:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Deletion of Ale. Madgearu-what's the reason?
I have created an article about a Romanian Prof. Al. Madgearu. This was quickly deleted by a user that is, I see, member of this wikiproject, a very active. I asked about the reason that this was deleted, but still without an answer. Can someone help me, is this some kind of vendeta against him?Villick (talk) 14:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I put Magdearu to speedy deletion and an admin acted. No notability. There is no vendetta and there will never be on my side and for no one. I don't do these things. --SulmuesLet's talk 16:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Redlinks on List of Albanian writers
I propose to remove redlinks from List of Albanian writers and other related lists for notability reasons. I know that the list contains authors that I personally grew up with (sadly they still do not have an article on EN WP) but on the other hand I guess there are a lot of names that have been inserted on the list for self-promotion purposes (probably they have tried to create articles but ended up speedy deleted or gone through AfD-s). I have been bold and cleaned-up the article List of Albanians but I want to have a wider consensus for edits like that. So what do you think? Cheers everyone. <small style="background:#000"> kedadi al  16:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I regret to disagree on this one. I know the hassle of going after the newbies who create stupid stubs is heavy, but it's better to have lots of newbies train. Wikipedia endorses wikifying when an article doesn't exist yet, just to promote creation of new articles. I'd rather have lots of bad articles rather than no articles. However, I understand your concern about the self-promoting articles and I kind of know who you are talking about (someone who recently came back (and I'm not talking about I_Pakapshem)? ;-)).--SulmuesLet's talk 17:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Return
After a long ban I am back and ready to help wherever needed! --I Pakapshem (talk) 22:24, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Welcome back I Pakapshem, na ler te te "ngalasim" pak edhe pse ti s'do te te kapin, :-). --SulmuesLet's talk 14:27, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Stephanie Schwander-Sievers
I would like to discuss and to have a consensus on this page about the books of Stephanie Schwander-Sievers. She is an ethnographer, not a historian, however she is being quoted in many historical articles concerning Albania.

I am talking about many books where she writes as main author or as co-author see here. She speaks about myths basically and how these myths have entered the Albanian culture and are affecting the Albanians' psychosis pp. 3-25, which is confused between myths and history. My argument is that extreme care should be used when citing Sievers, because first of all she is not a historian. She is an ethnographist. As such, she might have the tendency to not be as precise as a historian would, and as a result she might be misquoted.

Albanian editors have been reverted many times in historical articles, because they have used Reverend Jacques (because a priest), Malcolm and Pearson (because they were members of the British-Albanian association, and sometimes because it's claimed that Malcolm is not a historian, but he has had a PhD in history from Cambridge) and historian Chekrezi (because pro-Albanian and not contemporary). Albanian editors have also been reverted because they have used Shaban Demiraj (because he has spoken about the possibility of the Pelasgian origin of the Albanians, although I have never seen that) and Myzafer Korkuti (because written in a totalitarian regime). To me all of these sources CAN be used (with some care for Chekrezi because he is not temporary), although some times with the due care. In addition everything published after 1970 is contemporary to me.

Your thoughts please.--SulmuesLet's talk 15:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


 * She seems to be competent enough in her own field and certainly has the required academic credentials to count as a RS. Ethnography and historiography are of course different fields, but statements about modern national ideologies would fall safely within the purview of the former, so I don't see why we shouldn't use her in that domain. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggested that she has to be used with care. Let's take for example p14-15. She allows herself to make a heavy critique of all the Albanian historiography, specifically of that of WWII. She says, seemingly generalizing Hoepken, that in Albania heroicist textbooks are used to describe the participation of Albania in WWII. First of all she doesn't specify if she is talking about general history books or History of Albania history books. The former is taught in years 1, 2, and 3 of the school and the latter in year 4. In year 3 a general overview is given to WWII and then Albania's participation and role is mentioned. She doesn't go to too much detail to deal with that. All she says is that Albania's case is that of all Eastern European nations that have heroicist textbooks, something that has been abandoned in Western Europe in the 1950s. She doesn't give one single example of how the Albanian historiography is misleading. Without analyzing better the issue she directs to Pirro Misha's contribution in that book and in the next page (15), she delibetarely stamps such historioraphy as "mythistory". She is thus lacking specificities in her critique. As a result, she is an ethnographist, but she allows herself to critizise the whole Albanian historiography, which is not exactly an ethnographist' job. She might say all she wants for all I care, but if I read a critique from her to the entire historians' class, then I really don't want to use her in my citations, because I really don't think ethnographists can be used to criticize historians. It seems like she is more reliable than the historians, which to me just adds POV to a citation. --SulmuesLet's talk 18:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * (I can't access that text on Google books, so I can't speak to the details of your argument for now, but...): Recognising that certain types of history writing reproduce "heroicist" stances towards history is a finding that a non-historian can easily and validly make, and relating that finding to the hypothesis of a larger ideological pattern prevalent in a society is well within the scope of what an ethnographer can validly do. I'd have no problem with that, in general. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S.: Now found at least some pages of that text on GB, though not the ones you quote. This appears to be from the intro to a collected volume, where she is probably mostly summarizing the findings of the other contributors and relating them to the larger state of the art. Hopken actually is a competent historian (professor of Balkan history at a German university). I'd need to know more of the context to assess the passage. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

(undented) Yeah, unfortunately I cannot read Pirro Misha's article either, but I wouldn't be surprized to see Stephanie cited for that intro. I would like to see Hoepken cited for that issue, but not Stephanie. And I don't think Hoepken has taken any time to see Albania's history books. All I'm saying is that some judgement is needed when you see her quoted (and I've seen her quoted too many times). --SulmuesLet's talk 19:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

DYK proposal
I think someone needs to add to the List_of_hoaxes, the most famous Albanian one Theodor Shkodrani's book. There are plenty of references, and it would be a good DYK. --SulmuesLet's talk 03:04, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Minahan
All sentences using Minahan as a citation should be removed as I found out that this independent writer is totally unreliable. For example he claims that in Greece among the Albanian immigrants there are 300,000 Albanian nationalists many of whom are "ethnic Epirotes(??)".So he's claiming the majority of Albanian immigrants in Greece are Albanian nationalists and they willingly belong to an imaginary nation called "Epirotes", but that still doesn't stop them from being 300,000 Albanian nationalists. That's the kind of fringe unreliable theories that don't belong to wikipedia. The sooner these fringe writers are removed the better it will be for the reliability of the project.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I read the review of the book by the Library Journal and it says that: While the sources credited include international organizations, scholarly societies, and a few U.S. government agencies, it is unclear how much input the leadership of various groups may have had in shaping the entries.. That reinforces my previous statement regarding the book.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:29, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this Zjarri. It would be very useful to provide a link of the Library Journal's review. --SulmuesLet's talk 17:14, 29 June 2010 (UTC)