Wikipedia talk:WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing/Archive 1

Start-Up

 * As had been discussed, the project has now been created. The first step is to attach the template link to the "Discussion" page of every page related to open wheel racing.

To do so, enter the following:

Doctorindy 20:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be awesome if we could get someone with a bot to do this to all the pages in Category:Indy 500 drivers, Category:Indy Racing League drivers, and Category:Champ Car drivers. -Drdisque 13:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't say I know a whole lot about the bots and similar utilities. if that could work, it would be great. I did a quick sweep of the tracks and races. That's painfull, but I got a bunch of importants ones. We would also need to get all of the individual Indianapolis 500 race pages Category:Indianapolis 500 races (all 90 of them) with the banner. Doctorindy 13:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The 2007's banner is already up for the 2007 Indianapolis 500 page, so there's actually 91 of them. *grins* --Chr.K. 14:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a bot, and I did some successful experimenting with the Category:Indy 500 drivers now. It took a fair bit of tweaking and reasoning to figure it out, since we need to add the template to the talk page despite the category linking to the article. I will do the task. It's easiest if noone tags the articles manually. I need some time to do this big of a bunch. The bot can tag about 1 or 2 articles per minute, so I'll have some no-doze handy! RoyalbroilTalk  Contrib 05:08, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * (deindent)The AWB does talk pages a lot faster than articles since there is little text to save (it does up to around 5 per minute). It still will take me quite a bit of time. I urge everyone to check out the AWB, since I find it to be a highly useful for mass changes like this. I am charting my progress:
 * Category:Indy 500 drivers Completed. 367 articles tagged - Royalbroil
 * Category:Female Indy 500 drivers Completed. 4 articles manually tagged - Royalbroil
 * Category:Indianapolis 500 races Completed. 86 articles tagged (5 had been tagged previously) - Royalbroil
 * Category:Indy 500 winners Completed. 64 articles tagged - Royalbroil
 * Category:Indy Racing League drivers Completed. 26 articles tagged, and 123 articles skipped - Royalbroil
 * Category:Indy 500 Rookie of the Year Completed. All 60 articles had previously been tagged in this process. - Royalbroil.
 * - Process completed. You can resume manually tagging all new articles, and if I inadvertently missed any. Bots are cool for things like this. Great for fixing disambiguous links/moves too. RoyalbroilTalk  Contrib 14:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Mid-Ohio
Created Indy Grand Prix of Mid-Ohio page, (working race title) and transferred past CART race results per the previous templates of race pages. No known logo on Wiki for the track (can't find a good one anyplace else either right now), nor is there a logo for the race yet. A track map is currently the placeholder. Attempted to chase all the links. Doctorindy 19:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Infineon
Per the IRL release, the Infineon race is now called the Indy Grand Prix of Sonoma County. Old page will be moved to the new title, so that the various links will redirect. Other links elseware should be revised. Doctorindy 19:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Why do they have to put INDY in EVERY SINGLE racename? Name it the Grand Prix of Sonoma and be done with the market saturation: there is one Indy. --Chr.K. 14:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * One wonders why they came up with that, it goes back to the Indy 200 at WDW back in '96. I guess you could say the Toronto CART races ("Molson Indy Toronto") glammed on to that too. Be it as it is.... Doctorindy 13:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Things to do

 * 1) Get a template for quality in articles put into the Project (template for importance is possible, but I'd ask who's to say what matters most, with the kind of questions people give Donald).
 * 2) Determine if the archived WIBC broadcasts of The Talk of Gasoline Alley qualify as a viable source for information on auto racing, and open-wheel specifically. I know I've never heard him not correct any error he rarely gives. --Chr.K. 14:10, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) Determine if the Wikiproject F-1 quantification and standardization system should be seen as the starting model for AOW.
 * 4) Work to identify the winners of both the IRL and CART/CCWS seasons as co-national champions, and in so doing give nod to each series, effectively seeking to avoid or temper the bitterness long existing between both sides. --Chr.K. 14:48, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 5) Calculate the winners of all (to use the thoroughbred term) "grade one" open-wheel races in the U.S. or in U.S.-based grade one open-wheel racing series, whether the pre-AAA, AAA, USAC, CART, or IRL/CCWS eras (1895-present). Stating a modern driver to be the all-time winningest in IRL or CCWS/CART history should only be if they beat Foyt's 67 race win record.
 * 6) Create a list, based on the F-1 project standard, for all motorsports venues that have held grade one open-wheel races at some point in history (1895-present), and all those currently in use now. --Chr.K. 18:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Project name
"Open Wheel Racing" isn't a proper noun and shouldn't be capitalized. (I'm a pedant, I know). Recury 14:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Would it be capitalized if it was the name of a business? If so, keep it as is. --Chr.K. 22:57, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Is it the name of a business? Recury 23:00, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * OWRS once had all the words capitalized. --Chr.K. 11:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It's part of the name of the project, and thus a proper name. -Drdisque 01:24, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I had never seen it like done like that before, but looking at the other projects, some do, some don't. Recury 02:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * In the sake of keeping things simple, I think it's fine the way it is. If someone wants to chase everything, I guess they could change it to lower-case. Doctorindy 17:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

TO DO LIST- Champ Car Race Pages

 * I noticed new Champ Car track footer template was created. Very good, now that needs to be placed on all the respective tracks
 * One thing I noticed is that not all of the Champ Car races have race pages. The ones that don't need to be created.
 * In addition, a Champ Car Race info box, very similiar to the IRL race info box has to be created, and added to all of the Champ car race pages (and the new ones). There appears to be only one thing that needs to be changed....the line that says "First IRL race" needs to change to "First Champ Car race"
 * Race logos need to be collected for the Champ Car season and uploaded (PROPERLY!) to Wiki to display in the race infobox. When uploading, just so everyone knows, you can upload a jpg/gif of the race logo, as long as it is marked with the "Logo" licensing box.


 * A consensus has to be made about listing past results of races that no longer are run. In the NASCAR Wiki, they add it to the race track's page, with only a handful of exceptions. Seems reasonable. But all races that are currently on both series' schedules need to have a seperate page.
 * Prior to the start of the project, a consensus seems to have been made about street courses and their race. Since street courses really aren't noteworthy outside of the race, we've gone ahead and had just ONE page, merging the info about the circuit and the race....for example see...Honda Grand Prix of St. Petersburg. There used to be a page Streets of St. Petersburg, but it was kind of a strech, and it's been better since we merged the two. Doctorindy 21:38, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I created that track footer yesterday, I think that it's up-to-date for the moment. I'll update it for 2007 when a) 2006 season finishes b) the 2007 schedule is comfirmed (regarding the european races). I haven't added the footer to all the tracks yet, I might do it later today if I haven't been beaten to it. - EDIT Done :)


 * I created 2 race pages back in May for Long Beach & Houston. It a very simple layout and I think very effective. I am willing to listen if anyone has suggestions on improvements though.Manwithaduck 12:59, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * We seem to have always had individual year race pages for the Indy 500, but hardly any for the rest of the season. There has to be some sort of link (in F1, they call it "Report" in the column) to get to the years' box scores. If there are enough people participating, we can have people 'volunteer' to do race results each week for 2007. The IRL season pages have top 10 for every race (kind of like the NASCAR season pages), which is nice, but more is better I guess. Since we're in off season, not much to do right now, I'll give us time to catch up on more important pages before the season starts. Doctorindy 22:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I did create the IRL season pages patterned after the NASCAR system. We could definitely convert the points standings for seasons prior to 2005 to the pretty table used in 2006 (maybe minus the car color coding since liveries for some of the more obscure entries may no longer be readily available). I personally don't feel that independent race pages for non-indy 500 races are necessary. WP:NASCAR is a much more mature project and doesn't have these nor are they moving towards this. Also, I don't see many people wanting to use wikipedia to find out the complete results for the 2001 True Value 500k or 1993 Portland CART race. I think the focus here needs to be on telling the story and history of championship car rather than just providing heaps of raw data. -Drdisque 16:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That seems fine with me. More pages means more work, and like you said, people probably aren't coming to Wiki to find out race results from 15 years ago. I like the way the IRL season pages were done, but I think they could be fancier for 2007 now that we have a team effort in place. For example, right now we show the top 10 in list form. A small table would be cleaner I think, add the flag icons, etc. Plus they list the pole winner, but no pole speed. Maybe someday I'd take a stab at making a demo version of one race. Doctorindy 19:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of leaning an F-1 direction in season pages and standards, due to them taking care to go into almost obscene detail...which I love, admittedly. I'd rather affiliate with the style of the high-and-mighty techno European world than with the people who invented green-white-checkererd... --Chr.K. 11:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. Also, I note that yours is a comparatively new project. You may be interested in the WikiProject Council/Guide, which has a lot of information regarding project organization from several of the most successful WikiProjects. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. Badbilltucker 17:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Assessment?
It sounds like an assessment was proposed in point #1 under the "Things to do" section. I like how WikiProject NASCAR assesses both quality and importance (see Talk:Jeff Gordon for an example) as part of the WikiProject's template. It would be relatively easy for me to tag all articles as unassessed (for both criteria) with my bot (using its find and replace feature) if that is needed. I could attempt tackle updating the WikiProject template: if consensus is to go that direction. The template logic looks extremely tricky, so copying and editing the WP NASCAR would be the way to go. What does everyone think of my proposal? RoyalbroilTalk  Contrib 14:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Detroit
There has been a merge request put up for the following articles that needs some attention:
 * Detroit Indy Grand Prix
 * Detroit Grand Prix
 * United States Grand Prix East
 * Belle Isle (Michigan)

I propose that all four be merged into Detroit Indy Grand Prix since that is the current evolution of the event. F1 results can be listed above the CART results, as they would be in chronological order otherwise. Doctorindy 16:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The F1 people will get pissy if you move their US Grand Prix East article. I suggest leaving it. Also, Belle Isle is not just a track, it is a park and the name of the island. It is notable for being an island and a park, not just as the site of an auto race. I suggest redirecting Detroit Grand Prix to Detroit Indy Grand Prix (or whatever the actual name of the race ends up being) and moving any non-F1 content from USGPE over to DIGP, but leaving the F1 content as is. -Drdisque 00:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going to go ahead and make some changes, since we seem to have come to a consensus. I'll send all of the CART/IRL related material to Indy Detroit Grand Prix I'll make Detroit Grand Prix a disambig page, and have links to both the F1 event and the CART/IRL event. The Belle Isle page will stay, but it's racing content will be at the race page instead, that's what's been done with most of the temp. street course races. Doctorindy 17:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Indy 500 Career Results Standard
I was able to create a wiki-dump from my "500" database. Please review and comment.

Below are the results for Rick Mears (http://indy500.tjs-labs.com/list-driver-wiki.php?name=RICK+MEARS) -- Mycroft.Holmes 21:36, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Just for grins, here are Foyt's stats (http://indy500.tjs-labs.com/list-driver-wiki.php?name=A.+J.+FOYT) -- Mycroft.Holmes 21:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That actually looks kind of good. But why red? When I think of red, i think something bad, like a DNF. I think maybe green would be best for highlighting the wins/poles. Doctorindy 14:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Also the bottom row could have a "total" row for total laps completed and led (blank cells for the other columns that are N/A for "totals" Doctorindy 14:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I applied some simple HTML table functions, and was able to put the small table nested next to the large table. I think that cleans things up a little bit. Doctorindy 14:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Looking good. I'll play with the script today, add the HTML, an additional table for lap summaries, and change the red to green. I chose red since it screams "HEY LOOK AT ME". But you're right, red usually implies that something bad happened. I'll post the result and the link here later today--Mycroft.Holmes 14:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess I beat you to it. i tried a few of my ideas already. Keep playing with it though, I'll leave it alone for now. Doctorindy 14:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ooooh, the green looks good. Give me 10 minutes, and I'll incorporate the changes into my wiki-dump program.--Mycroft.Holmes 14:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done! Here's a link:
 * http://tjs-labs.com/indy500/list-driver-wiki.php?name=JIMMY+BRYAN

All you need to do now is a ctrl-A to select all, then a ctrl-C to copy, and ctrl-V into the page you're editting.--Mycroft.Holmes 15:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just a thought - why not use the standard color-coding that most of the motor-racing pages use - Gold for 1st, Silver for 2nd and Bronze for 3rd? Manwithaduck 08:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Gold-Silver-Bronze are the winning colors in my mind! Otherwise it looks excellent and appears quite readable! RoyalbroilTalk  Contrib 04:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I say G-S-B it is. But only for finishing. Gold only for starting position. Silver and bronze for starting positions don't make sense to me. Doctorindy 18:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ugh, I have to admit I'm not too fond of this one: it smells a little too F1 oriented! Indy has NEVER made a big deal about "podium" finishes. In fact, it's my opinion that a first row start has been more "valued" (historically speaking) than a "podium" finish.--Mycroft.Holmes 19:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with DoctorIndy about G-S-B only for the finishes, and gold for the start. I have never been an F1 fan (no offense intended). I was thinking of the Olympics scheme. I do agree Top 3, Top 5 and Top 10 finishes are not big in the Indy world. <b style="color:#000000;">Royal</b><b style="color:#FFCC00;">broil</b>Talk  Contrib 22:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I have put DOZENS of hours into putting chassis and engine data onto drivers' pages. Please either adapt your format to accomodate this data or please do not undo the dozens of hours of work that I have done. Also, please find a way to accomodate years where the driver attempted to qualify but failed to do so. -Drdisque 23:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm in favor of the F-1 color coding system, only going to more detail than they use. Having only one color, green opposite the white, doesn't make sense to me. --Chr.K. 11:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Remove F1 POV in Indy pages?
Ugh, I'd really like to get rid of the F1 POV in many of the Indy pages. For example, the 1951 Indy 500 results starts out like this:


 * The 1951 Indianapolis 500 was a Formula One race held on Wednesday, May 30, 1951 at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

Many driver articles have a similar "F1 slant" to them. For example, Duke Nalon's career stats at Indy were limited to his participation in the 1950's. I've added stats for his entire career.

I think it's interesting to remember that Indy was an F1 race in the 1950's. But it's a footnote to Indy history. Perhaps a new article summarizing F1 results over the time period.--Mycroft.Holmes 17:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I totally agree. I have noticed the F1 slant too, especially with some of the midget and sprint car drivers from the era who are incorrectly touted as F1 drivers. I have been slowly updating the articles with data about their primary racing career in midget and sprint from pages in the sprint car and midget car halls of fame. Many of the articles get a huge expansion and are taken in a new direction. <b style="color:#000000;">Royal</b><b style="color:#FFCC00;">broil</b>Talk  Contrib 04:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That the Indianapolis 500s 1950-1960 are F-1 races as well should be included as a major point, however. --Chr.K. 11:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Indy ain't F-1 ... never has been. My main source books MAKE NO MENTION OF THE F-1 CONNECTION. It's a footnote to Indy history, at BEST. The "500" is a peculiar little thing, with its own lingo, traditions, and statistical "oddities". These pages should perpetutate that. We should not, under any circumstances, try to make Indy fit into the F-1 Euro-mold.--Mycroft.Holmes 13:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The reason the pages originally appeared like that is, I suspect, that in the early days of the Formula One wikiproject, someone generated a load of F1 race result and F1 driver result pages automatically or semi-automatically from the official championship results. Hence the rather odd focus on F1, resulting from 'boiler plate' wording. I'm sure there was no intent to slant all these articles to F1 permanently. Looking on the bright side, at least a load of article stubs were created, which are now being expanded to have the correct focus. I agree that the articles shouldn't refer to (most) of the drivers as F1 drivers, and I agree that Indy should not be referred to as an F1 race.

However, those drivers who scored points in the F1 world championship should have at least a footnote to that effect, it's an interesting curiosity. See Bill Holland for example. Regarding the race results, I can see what you mean with having a separate page, but would it not be neater for those 10 years just to have an extra column with 'F1 World championship points scored'? It needn't take up much space and seems logical. Similarly I would argue for keeping the F1 championship infobox at the foot of the 'proper' Indy results pages. Assuming that you intend to flesh out the race results, neither inclusion would look too obvious.

By the way, does anyone else think it's odd that one of Europe's least successful periods at Indy matches almost exactly with the period for which it was part of the F1 championship? Cheers. 4u1e 17:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Only a tiny handfull of European teams even considered making the trip to Indianapolis from 1950-1960. None that did were sucessfull. It is entirely true that the Indianapolis 500 was considered part of the World Championship from 1950-1960, but the World Championship at that time didn't look like the F1 schedule we know now. Awarding championship points to the finishers at Indy didn't amount to much more than trying to promote interest in the race by European officials. Ironically, it wasn't until the race was no longer part of the championship that that European's came over and started winning. Doctorindy 22:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Indy as F1
The table below shows all drivers with starts from 1950 to 1959. In my opinion, we should have ONE article based around this table, explaining how Indy fit in to the F1 schedule during those years and supplying this table, expanded perhaps to include poles, podiums, and points. It might also be interesting to note how many regular F1 drivers participated at Indy during those years (zero?) and how many points were won by regular F1 drivers (zero?).

Please excuse the non-wiki format of the table. I didn't want to deal with translation just for the purpose of discussion. If we decide we want to use the table, I can change the page to generate proper wiki format, and to include poles, podiums, and points.

Btw, the table below is also available at http://indy500.tjs-labs.com/most-starts.php?minyear=1950&span=10--Mycroft.Holmes 14:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Name Number Years TONY BETTENHAUSEN 10 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 JOHNNIE PARSONS 9 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 RODGER WARD 9 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 JIM RATHMANN 9 1950 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 JIMMY BRYAN 8 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 FRED AGABASHIAN 8 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 SAM HANKS 8 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 DON FREELAND 7 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 GENE HARTLEY 7 1950 1952 1953 1954 1956 1957 1959 ANDY LINDEN 7 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 PAUL RUSSO 7 1950 1953 1954 1956 1957 1958 1959 DUANE CARTER 7 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1959 JOHNNY THOMSON 7 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 JIMMY REECE 6 1952 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 TROY RUTTMAN 6 1950 1951 1952 1954 1956 1957 JIMMY DAYWALT 6 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1959 EDDIE JOHNSON 6 1952 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 JACK MCGRATH 6 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 BILL VUKOVICH 5 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 PAT FLAHERTY 5 1950 1953 1955 1956 1959 JOHNNY BOYD 5 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 ED ELISIAN 5 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 PAT OCONNOR 5 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 BOB SWEIKERT 5 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 AL KELLER 5 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 WALT FAULKNER 4 1950 1951 1953 1955 BOB CHRISTIE 4 1956 1957 1958 1959 CHUCK STEVENSON 4 1951 1952 1953 1954 CHUCK WEYANT 4 1955 1957 1958 1959 DICK RATHMANN 4 1950 1956 1958 1959 JIM DAVIES 4 1950 1951 1953 1955 SPIDER WEBB 4 1950 1952 1953 1954 BOB VEITH 4 1956 1957 1958 1959 AL HERMAN 4 1955 1956 1957 1959 ART CROSS 4 1952 1953 1954 1955 JERRY HOYT 4 1950 1953 1954 1955 JACK TURNER 4 1956 1957 1958 1959 CLIFF GRIFFITH 3 1951 1952 1956 RAY CRAWFORD 3 1955 1956 1959 JOHNNIE TOLAN 3 1956 1957 1958 GEORGE CONNOR 3 1950 1951 1952 JOHNNY MCDOWELL 3 1950 1951 1952 EDDIE SACHS 3 1957 1958 1959 CAL NIDAY 3 1953 1954 1955 DUKE NALON 3 1951 1952 1953 MANUEL AYULO 3 1952 1953 1954 MIKE NAZARUK 3 1951 1953 1954 HENRY BANKS 3 1950 1951 1952 MIKE MAGILL 3 1957 1958 1959 DUKE DINSMORE 3 1950 1951 1956 BILL SCHINDLER 3 1950 1951 1952 BILL CHEESBOURG 3 1957 1958 1959 BOBBY BALL 2 1951 1952 LEE WALLARD 2 1950 1951 ERNIE MCCOY 2 1953 1954 JOE JAMES 2 1951 1952 A. J. FOYT 2 1958 1959 BILLY GARRETT 2 1956 1958 BILL HOLLAND 2 1950 1953 MAURI ROSE 2 1950 1951 PAUL GOLDSMITH 2 1958 1959 MARSHALL TEAGUE 2 1953 1957 BOB SCOTT 2 1952 1953 MACK HELLINGS 2 1950 1951 JUD LARSON 2 1958 1959 CECIL GREEN 2 1950 1951 KEITH ANDREWS 2 1955 1956 WALT BROWN 2 1950 1951 SHORTY TEMPLEMAN 2 1955 1958 EDDIE RUSSO 2 1955 1957 CHET MILLER 2 1951 1952 CARL SCARBOROUGH 2 1951 1953 LEN SUTTON 2 1958 1959 BILL HOMEIER 1 1954 JACKIE HOLMES 1 1950 ART BISCH 1 1958 DON EDMUNDS 1 1957 MYRON FOHR 1 1950 JOIE CHITWOOD 1 1950 LARRY CROCKETT 1 1954 DEMPSEY WILSON 1 1958 BAYLISS LEVRETT 1 1950 LEN DUNCAN 1 1954 JIMMY JACKSON 1 1950 BOBBY GRIM 1 1959 BILL MACKEY 1 1951 GENE FORCE 1 1951 DON BRANSON 1 1959 FRANK ARMI 1 1954 JIM RIGSBY 1 1952 GEORGE FONDER 1 1952 CARL FORBERG 1 1951 CHUCK ARNOLD 1 1959 JERRY UNSER 1 1958 ELMER GEORGE 1 1957 ALBERTO ASCARI 1 1952 RED AMICK 1 1959 GEORGE AMICK 1 1958 JIM MCWITHEY 1 1959 WALT ADER 1 1950


 * In response to your question Scuderia Ferrari entered with Alberto Ascari in 1952. Only completed 40 laps though. That may be it - as I say, odd that the first year that Indy wasn't part of the F1 championship saw the first of what became a flood of European mid-engine chassis (Jack Brabham's Cooper). 4u1e 17:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * fyi ... I've placed a summary of F1 results on all profiles for drivers competing in the 1950 through 1960.