Wikipedia talk:WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing/Archive 8

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople
An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Aggregated racing driver infoboxes
User:Frietjes has proposed making changes to the various series-specific racing driver infoboxes (Infobox F1 driver, Infobox Le Mans driver, Infobox WRC driver, etc) to allow them to be embedded inside Infobox racing driver, such that a driver's article may contain a single infobox covering all the different series in which they have particpated, rather than multiple infoboxes - see Andy Priaulx as an example. You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at Template_talk:Infobox_racing_driver. DH85868993 (talk) 01:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Forsythe Racing
Hi WP:AOWR. I've just noticed a discrepancy regarding what year Forsythe Racing started: I'm not familiar enough with the history of CART to know which is correct, so I thought I'd just highlight the discrepancy, in the hope that someone here can resolve it. DH85868993 (talk) 02:31, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Forsythe/Pettit Racing says "The team first operated as Forsythe Racing from 1983 to 1985...", but
 * in Héctor Rebaque, "Forsythe Racing" is listed as Rebaque's entrant for the 1982 CART season and the 1982 Indianapolis 500.

It appears that Rebaque was teammate to Danny Sullivan who also drove part time in 1982. The car was entered as "Forsythe-Brown" in a number of races and the Danny Sullivan article shows it as "Forsythe-Newman". In addition Al Unser, Jr. made his CART debut at Riverside in a car entered as "Forsythe Racing" (the same car # that Sullivan drove). Perhaps Forsythe was just a sponsor, but that still doesn't answer the question as to what team this really was. -Drdisque (talk) 20:52, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

I asked some other people on the subject and consensus was that the team did run in 1982. Also found out that "Brown" was Garvin Brown of Brown-Forman. -Drdisque (talk) 01:48, 31 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Drdisque. DH85868993 (talk) 00:36, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

2012 season articles needing work
Time for my annual post about incomplete season articles. The following series articles are little more than tables. Most of them don't even explain what they are, whether they are open wheel series, where they are held, who won the series! Apparently a series as important as DTM considers the point score system more important than the series champion.

The situation is also encouraging new editors to be likewise poor in seasonal coverage.

So while the majority of series are in hibernation perhaps we could spend a few days improving these articles.

Surely it would be more important and productive than arguing over whether Mercedes or Mercedes AMG is the correct terminology for a constructor? Less minuatae!

No mention of series winner: 2012 AMA Pro American Superbike Championship season 2012 NHRA Full Throttle Drag Racing Series season 2012 Panam GP Series season Series winner mentioned but no season review: 2012 Formula 3 Sudamericana season Thank you for your time. --Falcadore (talk) 05:19, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Indicates race summaries, but a lack of season review
 * 2012 IndyCar Series season

Portal:Sports is up for featured portal consideration
This is a courtesy message to inform the members of this project that I have nominated Portal:Sports for featured portal status. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Sports. The featured portal criteria are at Featured portal criteria. Please feel free to weigh in.  S ven M anguard  Wha?  18:31, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Discussion about the "National Championships" and "Wins"
I started a little discussion HERE regarding what should be done in this project, and how we should once and for all, nuke the Haresnape & Means and Russ Catlin "fantasy champs" from recorded history once and for all. Doctorindy (talk) 14:33, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Boillot1914Indy.jpg
has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 11:45, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

National Flags on AOWR seasons pages
I'm curious for the purpose of standardization if the national flags for each race should or should not be in the driver standings section. For example, the flags are present on both the top and bottom of the Standings in 2013 IndyCar Series season but have recently been edited to only be the bottom in the 1985-1987 seasons (1986 IndyCar season) Asher413 (talk) 15:09, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Proposing updated template
I'm proposing this updated template to update the wording of the series to reflect current name and to update photo (other photo recommendations gladly considered)

Let me know if you have any feedback. -Drdisque (talk) 05:10, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I'd specify "Indy car racing", as that (despite the piped link) makes it look like Champ Cars, CART, USAC etc. aren't included. - The Bushranger One ping only 06:55, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That's how it's currently specified. All I did was remove ", with an emphasis on the Indy Racing League IndyCar Series, including Champ Car". We could leave the former wording, but remove the words "Indy Racing League"? However, that would make it look like that we are saying that the IndyCar Series includes Champ Car, which is confusing. -Drdisque (talk) 14:03, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The proposed changes makes it looks like sprint cars and midget cars / drivers are not included. How about change the original statement from ", with an emphasis on the Indy Racing League IndyCar Series, including Champ Car" to ", with an emphasis on the Indy car racing"? Then the template emphasizes all of the Indy car series plus the series that historically lead up to the big cars.  Royal broil  12:17, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I've updated the template per the suggestions posted here. -Drdisque (talk) 19:30, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * No complaints, and I like that we're now using a DW-12 photo to make it more current. Although I think Dixon's image was the one previously used. Perhaps we could use another car, perhaps the most recent champion. Doctorindy (talk) 19:08, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * And of course, Dixon is now the current champion ;) -Drdisque (talk) 20:09, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

"Grid" and "Rank"
Hi, folks! In articles on the Indianapolis 500, I see two columns named "Grid" and "Rank". I expect one that mentions the qualifying results. Which columns is that, and what does the other column mean? Thanks! --NaBUru38 (talk) 22:36, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * "Grid" is the position they started the race in (determined by qualifying procedure) and "Rank" is how their qualifying speed ranked among the starters. Note that due to the Indy 500's unique qualifying procedure, the field does not start in simple fastest-to-slowest order. For example, if a last day qualifier had the 25th fastest speed but started 30th due to qualifying on the last day, their "Grid" would be 30 and "Rank" would be 25. This also takes into account when a car starts from the back due to a driver change (entry keeps its "Rank" but "Grid" becomes 33rd. -Drdisque (talk) 23:17, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * As rank is unofficial shouldn't it be removed? --Falcadore (talk) 02:22, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Where did I say it was unofficial? -Drdisque (talk) 02:59, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Why do you have to state it before the question can be asked? --Falcadore (talk) 04:36, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer! So, same question to me. I'd remove that column. --NaBUru38 (talk) 17:12, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm just saying that I don't think that "rank" is any more or less "official" then "grid". Both are matters of fact, not opinion. "rank" is just a less common statistic because in most races, the field more or less lines up in order of qualifying speed. -Drdisque (talk) 05:13, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Grid decides how the race starts, rank does nothing of the sort. In think the is a gulf between them. It has no bearing what speed the guy in 12th grid position, 12th is as good as could be achieved, unless 11th is bumped out of the grid by someone on bump day which is also beyond their control.
 * One defines the starting order, the other is a quirk of statistics. --Falcadore (talk) 09:20, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The "Fastest Qualifier" (i.e., the "Rank") is a big statistic at the Indianapolis 500. And it actually has quite a bit of importance as well with regard to Bump Day qualifying. A separate award is actually given for the fastest qualifier, although it's rare for the pole winner not to be the fastest qualifier, so it doesn't get a lot of press. Same for the slowest qualifier (an award is given), although it's rare for the slowest qualifier not to be 33rd just the same. When dealing with the Indy 500 qualifying, the "grid" position is irrelevant with respect to who gets bumped (speaking mostly of the older Indy 500 articles). Due to the way the qualifiers line up, you could be on the front row of the grid, and be on the bubble because your speed rank is last. In most years, the grid vs. rank is usually closely aligned. But in some years...1991 for instance...the grid does not closely align, and it was a point of news at the time.  Doctorindy  (Talk)  18:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * As the details of bumping are covered in vivid detail in the race reports, and only 1st and 33rd are otherwise notable is it necessary to detail all of it? Text can cover first and last. Why rank everyone? --Falcadore (talk) 10:55, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Falcadore. --NaBUru38 (talk) 19:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * If you honestly want to go through 90+ race report articles to remove one harmless, but still factual column, have at it. I think it's a waste of time, effort, and worry.  Doctorindy  (Talk)  19:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree that "Rank" is unimportant - it is in fact, as mentioned, very important indeed. The objections I see here seem to boil down to WP:IDONTLIKEIT. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:48, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The importance of the statistic is beside the point. That is is essentially a fan stat is the point. If we could see the ranking refered to officially or in box scores (apart from individual mentions where 12th or 23rd is faaster than pole) then I would agree and desist. --Falcadore (talk) 06:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not a fan stat. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:59, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * But if only 1st and 33rd are actually important, then what is the point of 2nd to 32nd? unneccessary detail that is never refered to except by table makers. --Falcadore (talk) 10:55, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "The objections I see here seem to boil down to WP:IDONTLIKEIT" That about sums it up. And it is not the first time.  Doctorindy  (Talk)  14:16, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Then you won't mind providing some references that demonstrate "ranking" the whole field is significant. --Falcadore (talk) 14:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Track Map
A general request regarding this basic track map of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. This really is a terrible schematic of the track. It's lopsided, not to scale, and the turns are crooked. Putting a suggestion out there for anyone that has the ability to create a new, cleaner, perhaps more detailed version, replacing this insufficient old one. Doctorindy (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Update
I took a stab at sketching a new track map of IMS. It's very basic, but not skewed and lopsided. I'm going to try and replace some of the prominent pages that use the old svg file. Doctorindy↔Talk 15:22, 16 May 2014 (UTC)





Table cell/row merging - STOP!
I am bringing this up here because it is an increasing problem in IndyCar race articles, but it also probably more prevalent in the NASCAR project. There seem to be some editors (most seem unregistered) who are turning race result tables (and other tables) totally upside-down by merging rows and cells. It makes the tables look terrible, hard to read, merges irrelevant data, and makes them very difficult to edit for future reasons. I have no idea what people are thinking do this. For instance, they are merging cells for a driver who wins a race back-to-back years, merging laps/miles, car makes that happened to win in. See this for an example. Some are much worse than this one. I think it should be stopped immediately, and in fact reverted to un-merge all the cells. The reasoning is that each line represents a totally different event. What happened in one year is totally unrelated to the next. Each line should be complete of its information. The fact that a car make won two years in a row is merely coincidental to the makeup of the table. It also makes it difficult for the reader to see that they are separate events each year, and one might not be able to tell easily that 2-3-4 or more races are represented. While the skill of complex table syntax might be impressive, it has no place here. The only place where some cells could be mereged would be "twin" races, like Texas had
 * Daytona 500
 * Firestone 550 Doctorindy (talk) 13:47, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree - I have reverted it every time I've seen it as well. Unfortunately whoever is doing this hops from IP to IP and won't engage in any sort of dialogue. -Drdisque (talk) 23:07, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree too.  Royal broil  00:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * They've been doing it to Formula One articles as well - we've been reverting it there too. DH85868993 (talk) 11:13, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Good job, folks! --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * He's back. And he's hitting a lot of NASCAR pages, particularly TV announcer tables. I'm reverting where I see it. He's teetering on WP:Disruptive editing.  Doctorindy  (Talk)  00:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Since he refuses to register and become a legitimate editor, he bounces around with IPs, engages in no discussion or consensus, at this point, he can be characterized as nothing but a disruptive editor and vandalism. Here is a short list of his recent aliases. I am considering filing administrative action if others agree it is necessary. Doctorindy↔Talk 17:59, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Special:contributions/78.149.224.114
 * Special:contributions/78.149.235.236
 * Special:contributions/78.150.4.208
 * 78.150.14.91, 78.150.8.195
 * Special:contributions/78.150.2.41
 * Special:contributions/2.99.43.43
 * Special:contributions/2.97.36.93
 * Special:contributions/2.99.34.83
 * Special:contributions/78.149.235.236
 * Agreed that this has become disruptive. Revert-and-block from now on. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:07, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Another batch by Special:Contributions/78.150.0.67 (reverted) Doctorindy↔Talk 19:31, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Here's another sock he used yesterday -Drdisque (talk) 19:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * After wrestling with the API to check for collateral damage since the range contributions tool appears to be down, I've rangeblocked 78.149.224.0/20 and 78.150.0.0/21 for a month. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:18, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support. He's back today with Special:Contributions/2.99.37.13 This is getting ridiculous. Doctorindy↔Talk 19:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * And now that the range contributions tool is up, a check for collateral damage (very little if any) results in a rangeblock for 2.99.32.0/20. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * And added a month for 78.150.14.91/21. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:02, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Another obvious sock puppet Special:contributions/78.149.230.162, but it appears to be old edits. Doctorindy↔Talk 14:13, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

He's back
Just in time for race week: Special:contributions/78.149.239.158 Doctorindy↔Talk 22:39, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * A very strange edit this time. It appears Special:Contributions/78.150.0.18 reverted Sprint Unlimited to a version he created (had saved?) from back in mid 2013. Doctorindy↔Talk

Proposed move: Danny Sullivan
FYI, it has been proposed that Danny Sullivan be moved to Danny Sullivan (racing driver). You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at Talk:Danny Sullivan. DH85868993 (talk) 08:14, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The discussion was closed on 15 September 2013. The page was not moved. DH85868993 (talk) 01:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Proposed category rename
I have proposed that Category:Toyota Indy 400 be renamed to Category:MAVTV 500, to reflect the current name of the race and to match the associated article MAVTV 500. You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at the rename discussion. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 01:01, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Sam Posey in 1972
Hi WP:AOWR. I posed a question a couple of days ago at Talk:1972 USAC Championship Car season. To date there have been no replies, so I thought I'd advertise it here. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 04:32, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed change to wiki markup for motorsport results tables
Hi WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing. The wiki markup used to produce the background colour in most motorsport results tables (bgcolor="#XXXXXX") is no longer valid HTML and as a result doesn't work properly on mobile devices (no background colour is displayed). There is a proposal at WikiProject Formula One to get a bot to update the markup for all the articles within that WikiProject's scope. I'm letting this project know (a) so that you won't be surprised/confused if you suddenly see lots of articles being updated and are wondering why and (b) just in case you know of a reason why this would be a bad idea. The discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 10:21, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Indy car vs. IndyCar
A lively discussion has raged on for most of the afternoon on twitter regarding the use of "xxxx IndyCar Season" when describing CART sanctioned championship seasons from 1979 on. We have found a media guide entry that describes the series as the "INDY CAR SERIES" (no caps so case is difficult to obtain) yet we found a newspaper article from 1994 that describes the series as the "IndyCar Series".

I'm more inclined to leave the title headings as is, but could see changing these entries to "indycar series" (small case as not to lock these years into a specific sanctioning body but still allow them to be part of indycar history proper) Curious of your opinions on the subject.

Link to 1979 Media Guide cover picture: https://twitter.com/stevewittich/status/487394270068752384

Link to 1994 news article https://twitter.com/TonyJWriter/status/487332668611129344

Thanks for any help guys!! Ehall317 (talk) 01:27, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The articles title are, in my opinion, incorrect in a contemporary sense. It should be, for instance, "1991 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season." I don't know who wrote them as "1991 IndyCar season" but that is wrong in the factual sense. A page rename + redirect operation is in order.


 * Variations seem to exist in official publications. I've seen it as CART/PPG Indy Car World Series (with the "/" between PPG) but that's not as common. The camelcase word IndyCar doesn't seem to exist prior to 1992...that's when IMS registered it as a trademark and licensed it to CART. Prior to that it was always two worlds "Indy Car" Doctorindy↔Talk 01:51, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I think they should be "1991 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season". That is the name, the real name IMO. And for those oddly reluctant to recognize the sponsor name in that, note that all of the NASCAR season articles are 19XX Winston Cup season" (not 19xx NASCAR season). Doctorindy↔Talk 01:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe it could be 1991 CART season, but that seems a little oversimplified. And it would cause some complications since they are already used as re-direct pages. Doctorindy↔Talk 01:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * For the record, I've noticed they've been like that for a long time. I don't know who re-named them that, and I know I didn't do it. Doctorindy↔Talk 01:59, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * With regards to who renamed the articles: As an example, User:Hippopotamus (who hasn't edited since 2009) moved 1991 PPG Indy Car World Series season to 1991 IndyCar season on 21 May 2009, referencing this discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 02:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Possibly pertaining to this: ive noticed the non-championship AAA seasons have been red linked with the data moved to the talk pages. I may have missed the discussion, but is this what the community is wanting? I was surprised they got moved, but didn't put up a fight over it.Ehall317 (talk) 02:10, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I actually think those handful of season articles never existed. No one has gotten around to creating them. Doctorindy↔Talk 02:34, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I would prefer to keep indycar in some form in the title for search engine purposes. I always have a fear of confusing the curious passerby with too much in the title headings. If we are cool keeping sponsors/sanctioning bodies I would prefer "1991 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season". As a caveat, I'm not totally sure when PPG left, so would the remainder of the CART/ChampCar entries need to be updated? Ehall317 (talk) 02:06, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It would still be there because moving an article properly results in a re-direct page of the old name pointing it directly to the new one. So any search or link to "____ IndyCar season" for the CART years still comes up positive.. As for that 2009 discussion, I completely missed out on that one. There are some editors make up their own interpretation of what WP:COMMON means. One could easily cover all basis by creating re-direct pages comprising of the other semi-common but unofficial names. Doctorindy↔Talk 02:34, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Needless to say, I think the discussion from 2009 needs to be re-opened and re-evaluated. It's wrong the way it is currently. Note to move a page back to an old title required administrative help. Doctorindy↔Talk 02:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, Those few AAA championships that *were* created have been reinstated as blue links. I must have missed that one, if it was you Dr., Thank you! As for reopening the discussion, I vote yes with an eye to revert the current titles back to pre May of 09 titles. I can understand the users concern considering the camelcase IndyCar is describing an era where this word did not technically exist. Ehall317 (talk) 02:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Revisit
I've come up with several alternatives, I have created a temporary, mostly-comprehensive listing here: Sandbox. The alternatives can be summarized as follows, with one selected as the article names, and the rest serving as re-direct pages. For quick reference, this primarily applies to 1980-1996 first (1979 is on its own, see link). The article names from 1997-2002 will need reconsideration, and that can come afterwards. Doctorindy↔Talk 18:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * 1980 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season
 * 1980 CART/PPG Indy Car World Series season (with "/")
 * 1980 CART PPG Indy Car World Series (without "season")
 * 1980 CART/PPG Indy Car World Series (with "/" and without "season")
 * 1980 PPG Indy Car World Series season
 * 1980 PPG Indy Car World Series (without "season")
 * 1980 CART season (simplist style)
 * 1980 in CART (old fashioned wiki style")

Revisit II
After consulting media guides and other pertinent reliable sources, I am going to move forward (if there is no further objection) and move to what appears to be the proper contemporary name for the articles...taking into account the name, and Wiki precedent.
 * "19XX CART PPG Indy Car World Series"
 * (with "CART", without "/", without "season", and with "Indy" and "Car" as two capitalized words. All other variations will be re-direct pages. Doctorindy↔Talk 20:03, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Phase 1
Completed "Phase 1" of the revisions. All CART season pages from 1979-1991 have been (properly) moved over to the accurate name as shown directly above. Numerous re-direct pages have been created based on the other variations. Pages from 1992-2003 will be re-visted next. Doctorindy↔Talk 16:58, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Phase 2
Doctorindy↔Talk 17:58, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * CART season pages from 1992-1996 are properly moved to the new article names.
 * CART season articles from 1979-1995 have been spruced up with new expanded headers. They actually tell a brief story of the what happened during the season, rather than the uninformative boilerplates that were there. Nearly done once through with each of those.
 * CART pages from 1997-2003 will be reviewed down the road.

WikiProject X is live!


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Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Possible changes in results tables?
Hello all! Does anybody have an opinion based on what is being discussed here? --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 18:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Color scheme in the standings
Hello! Can anybody explain, why we use different color scheme, when we can use standard Motorsport driver results legend? I understand that American open-wheel series hadn't non-points placings, but don't understand the necessity to highlight finishes outside the top 3 with three different colors instead of one. Also don't understand for which purpose we need the different color to withdrawn. Corvus tristis (talk) 06:12, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The Indycar table was developed by Indycar and/or NASCAR editors, initially because it was found to be unsuitable because US style of racing does not usually recognise the concept of a podium. Victory lane is usually reserved for one-driver only, not three. It was then expanded, recognising for example that classification extends to all participants in a race, not just to those who finish it, which is against the European style of classifications. --Falcadore (talk) 04:13, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Excessive use of colour
User:Lestatdelc has been adding liviery colours to Indycar race reports (example 2015 Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg). A practice that was stopped after discussion years ago. After pointing out the policy at WP:COLOR on the issue he/she ignores it and is prepared to edit war these colours back in on the basis that colour schemes is important information. Why it is important is not conveyed as every other motor racing article in Wikipedia gets on just fine without it. Perhaps there might be someone else with some input? --Falcadore (talk) 04:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't mind the colors representing the endplates just because it gives it more character, but from what I understand, it is not good for those that a color blind. So, even though I like it for personal reasons, we probably should do away with it.Fanofspeed (talk) 05:42, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Previous Winners and Rookie Denotation
I have noticed that previous winners are being denoted with yellow and rookies are being denoted with the color green. I am not sure why this is the case, but may I suggest we flip these color denotations as I feel it is more fitting for rookies to be denoted with yellow and previous winners to be denoted with green. You can see an example at the 2015 Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach.Fanofspeed (talk) 23:57, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't have a strong opinion either way, so I would appreciate your reasoning. Why do you think rookies should be denoted in yellow and previous winners in green? Why are previous winners and rookies given special denotation?  Royal broil  02:34, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why they're given a special denotation. That's just the way it was when i checked it out last. I'm not sure who introduced it. The reason I recommend flipping it (if we keep it) is that rookies are already denoted on the track with yellow tape and numbers on the rear of the cars (yellow for proceed with caution). I think green for winners is okay because green means go and who goes better than winners?Fanofspeed (talk) 05:40, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * That's good reasoning and yellow for rookies is consistent with other forms of racing.  Royal broil  20:20, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Per WP:COLOR, these should not be denoted with any colors, but rather with some sort of marker that everyone can see. Tvx1 20:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Lapchart for AOWR Infobox?
Hi there, I'm relatively new to creating and editing Wiki articles, but I'm trying to create/update CART races starting with the 2001 season and when looking over templates and styles in other auto racing articles, I notice that the F1 template has a cool "Lapchart" function that shows who led the race over each lap. For example, on the right is the infobox for the 2008 Canadian GP, cut down to just the lapchart. As a n00b, I have no idea how this was done but I would really love to see the infobox for AOWR have a similar feature. Would anyone else be on board for this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocks with Salt (talk • contribs)
 * How about using this infobox and place it where you want it? It would only need minor changes at the most and Wikipedia is really into consolidating infoboxes anyhow, so we could request a change for us. Royalbroil Alt  17:38, 21 August 2015 (UTC)


 * That doesn't work though. You'll still need to format an underlying template if you want to produce a lap chart for any IndyCar race. That's easily done, but the question is, do we want it. Remember that some IndyCar races have over 200 laps and this will result in very large infoboxes if you want a lap chart. Tvx1 00:09, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Season in progress footnotes
I have proposed a change to the wording of the "Season in progress" footnotes which accompany motorsport results tables which the season is still in progress. Interested editors are invited to comment at the centralised discussion. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 21:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Request for input
It would be appreciated if other editors could please chime in on Talk:Milka Duno, where I'm attempting to engage a WP:SPA who is repeatedly attempting to whitewash the article by removal of all mention of criticism of the driver, and not having much success. - The Bushranger One ping only 12:14, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

1973 Indianapolis 500
I'd like to request a fresh review both of the quality and importance of the article 1973 Indianapolis 500 (currently 'Start', and 'Mid' for this project, respectively). I've significantly reworked the article to be less storylike and more encyclopeadic, and added about a dozen references adding specifics where none existed or facts of the article were simply wrong. In terms of its importance, beyond the fatalities and injuries in the race itself, the race prompted an uproar so vocal that safety changes to USAC racing were passed three days later, effective one month later. A watershed race and article like this on the F1 side, 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, ranks a 'Top' in this regard, and I suspect this is of similar importance. Skybunny (talk) 22:08, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Additionally, although I know this hasn't been done in general, I'd like to suggest that 'Points' (USAC championship points) awarded in a race be added to box scores. I have done this by way of example in 1973 Indianapolis 500, but if people don't like it, that's fine, remove it. Points have meaning in the context of the season, and this is something (I know, I'm referencing it again, but), that F1 does. They also, as a rule, have a race by race 'top five points drivers' as of any given race, which shows the evolution of a season. Something to consider. See [] and below it, []. While many early years aren't going to have many USAC races OTHER than Indy, for now, that doesn't mean that this shouldn't necessarily be there. (From 1950-1960, those points actually were Formula 1 WDC points, but those appear to be recorded as such.) Skybunny (talk) 21:12, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I assessed it at C class because it is greatly needs more citations from reliable sources. The article completeness / comprehensiveness is B class IMHO.  Royal broil  13:52, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Article for deletion
Just a heads up that Rahal-Hogan RH-001 is up for deletion. Trying to get relevant input as it is part of this project. Discussion is here. The359 ( Talk ) 19:13, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Hod Preston
I just started Hod Preston and linked it as best I could, can anyone else fill in blanks and spruce it up? THANKS!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:43, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Rockingham 500 - Good Topic candidate
The Rockingham 500 overview has been nominated as a good topic. You can weigh in the discussion here. MWright96 (talk) 15:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

ITNR discussion
A discussion which may be of relevance to this WikiProject is being held ITNR, to discuss the status of Indianapolis 500 and Monaco Grand Prix on the ITN Recurring items list. Input welcome. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 08:04, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

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Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

2017 Indianapolis 500 photos
Hello, folks! I made a long trip to the 500, and took some photos. I will be uploading them the following days. Have fun! --NaBUru38 (talk) 03:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Sources, sources, sources
I've been wandering around AOWR articles these past few weeks making aesthetic changes where needed and overall consolidating information as necessary. Recently, however, I've been running into problems in the 1996-2002 IRL years.

That problem is sources. I can't find a whole lot outside of Racing-Reference.info. When I added the Teams/Drivers charts for the 1998 season, 1999 season, and 2001 season, I discovered a tangled web of teams that may not actually be teams, teams that joined forces with other teams every season, and teams that I have absolutely no information on besides their names. Where do I find legitimate sources about Blueprint Racing, or Immke Racing, or that year where it was Blueprint-Immke Racing? It's certainly a chore, to be sure. At least Champ Car has this extremely helpful database that neatly consolidates and categorizes teams and drivers into one place. IRL/IndyCar doesn't really have that AFAIK.

Also, on a similar note, when I do extensive race reports for 2001 CART season races, the only definitive sources I'm able to use are from the old Champ Car website scraped from the Internet Archive. It's an absolute gold mine of helpful and interesting information, but when it's the only source available, it makes the articles suspect. I guess Wikipedia article guidelines frown upon leaning too heavily on one source, but unless more diverse sources come out of the woodwork, I'll stick with what I have.

In summary: SOURCES. Databases. Information that can be consolidated. Give me what you got. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocks with Salt (talk • contribs) 15:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Indy car wins article
An unregistered user did a substantial revert of List of American Championship Car winners, going back to a very old (2013) version, which was compiled prior to a substantial re-write. Based on discussion (HERE) and consensus, the wins list table was substantially revised in 2013 to reflect and properly separate the championship/non-championship races. This user is claiming the list as he wrote is "what is recognized by IndyCar", which actually isn't true either. It seems he's trying to use their 2011 stat book as a lone source, which while it is a source, it has been after review, considered suspect and brought into question by peers, given the fact that very little research was put into it, and it regurgitates known errors. I reverted the table back to it's late September form.

In addition, there are supplemental tables that have been added that don't seem to belong on that article. they appear to be WP:OR Doctorindy↔Talk 16:53, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

A ping: article work needed
I deprodded C. R. Crews, a late-2000s Indy Lights driver, that had been prodded as 'not notable'. Indy Lighs is kinda... *wibbles hand* when it comes to Conferring Notability, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt. The problem is it's deplorably referenced, and I can't find much, but I don't have much in the way of dead trees about open wheel from that era, so I'm kicking it here as something that may need rescuing by y'all. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:40, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

CART points system visual changes
Hi all,

So as I look for ways to visually improve race results tables, one thing that came to my attention was the Template:American Open Wheel driver results legend, which is influenced by the current points system used by Formula 1. However, for the vast majority of CART's existence (1983-2003), a slightly different points system was used. Unlike modern F1, which gives points to the Top 10, CART awarded points to the Top 12, and I think the AOWR results template should be changed to reflect that, at least in the applicable CART seasons. I've already done these visual changes on each of the CART season pages but not on driver or teams pages yet. What are the AOWR community's thoughts on this? Rocks with Salt (talk) 17:53, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

So for example:


 * It's a bit belated for this, but "top 12 finishes" is not a stat tracked by...well, anybody I can think of. Yes, the points went back to 12th, but while open-wheel racing tends to list podiums instead of top-fives, top-tens are the stat everyone uses across the board in motorsport. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:38, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Standard on Flag Icons for teams on season pages for Indycar/ChampCar?
Seems like it's all over the place depending on the season. My metric would be that the race team actually has facilities outside the US, not that someone who is Canadian or Australian owns, sponsors, or drives the team. So Carlin Motorsport is a British team, but Roth Racing was an American team (despite being owned by a Canadian). Jensen MotorSport has facilities in Canada, so they would count as a Canadian team.Froo (talk) 18:26, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * TBH, I don't think the teams even need it to be listed, it's hardly encyclopaedic information. I think it's only come to a head lately with the various press listing Carlin as the first British team in IndyCar. As it is though, IndyCar doesn't really care or make a distinction as to from what country a team is based or comes from; it's not an FIA series where the winning team gets their own national anthem played on the podium. 🇮🇪 TheChrisD  {💬|✏️} 19:34, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing
I just found that Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing is mostly about the teams short F1 effort and has almost nothing about it's biggest successes in Indycar racing. It wasn't even marked under the scope of WP:AOWR until I added it today. Can someone more knowledgeable about the 70s' USAC period take a look at it? Pc13 (talk) 14:40, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Dispute about colors in charts on 2018 IndyCar Series
Can interested editors please look at this thread and chime in? --Neil N  talk to me 20:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Proposed rename
It has been proposed that Al Miller II be renamed as Al Miller (racing driver born 1921). Interested editors are invited to participate in the discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 07:30, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Career results tables
I would like to propose a change to the way we format driver's career results, e.g. Scott Dixon. I think we should include team, chassis, and engine on each row, as we do for F1 seasons. I think our current formatting is absurd and hard to follow. You should be able to scan each row horizontally and view all the information you need. In Dixon's 2007 row, for instance, you have to look up or down to find any information past the year. It's just an extremely bad design. I've tried to implement this before but everything is immediately reverted, for some reason. Wicka wicka (talk) 15:11, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention it above, but this isn't just a UX issue. It actually violates accessibility guidelines by preventing screen readers from reading left to right. Wicka wicka (talk) 15:24, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Indianapolis half-measures
In ednitng this page, I found out there's a convention to divide the race in halves. Whose bright idea was this, Brian Williams? Races don't have halves. Nor halftime shows, no matter how much ignorant sportscasters might want them to. So, is this nonsensical, & should it be changed? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  01:52, 31 October 2018 (UTC) (BTW, I expect my opinion to be ignored, like it is on just about everything else..)
 * There was a discussion about this subject some time ago. A consensus was reached that it's best to break up the lengthy prose of the Race summary into meaningful sections. Not only to make it easier to read, but to identify key points in the race. It's based on guidance from WP:BETTER and User:Tony1/How to improve your writing. Each race is unique, with some including additional sections (or omitted sections); however, the general basic format/outline is "Start", "First half", "Second half", "Finish". While the race does not have hard breaks separating those segments (like NASCAR stages), they are nevertheless recognizable and not entirely spurious. Doctorindy↔Talk 15:14, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Zach Catanzareti Photo gallery
The gallery of Zach Catanzareti Photo (https://www.flickr.com/photos/58980992@N03/) has very good photos of 2018 that can be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. I hope it serves you. --Adriel 00 (talk) 18:45, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Nice collection there, thanks for letting us know.-- Vulp here  13:29, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Greg Moore (racing driver)
A discussion regarding whether or not information concerning the tax problems of Hélio Castroneves should be included in the Greg Moore (racing driver) article. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thank you. MWright96 (talk) 17:34, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

RfC which impacts this WikiProject's articles
An RfC has started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport which has wide implications for this WikiProject. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the discssion. SSSB (talk) 14:40, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

AfD for 2014 GoPro Indy Grand Prix of Sonoma
Hello,

Articles for deletion/2014 GoPro Indy Grand Prix of Sonoma is currently discussing an article of interest to this WikiProject.

Thank you, – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 00:16, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports opened
The Arbitration Committee has accepted arequest for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports regarding an user who has contributed to this project. If anyone wishes to add evidence for arbitrators to consider, you can add it to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports/Evidence. Please add your evidence by March 13, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.Tvx1 23:09, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Patricio O'Ward
A discussion has been started at Talk:Patricio O'Ward since one user decided to go against WP:COMMONNAME and move the page to an implied namespace. Your opinions are welcome. – Sabbatino (talk) 14:58, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Broadcaster and viewership information in NASCAR and IndyCar articles
There is an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport regarding the inclusion of broadcaster and tv viewerships in NASCAR and IndyCar articles. I invite interested editors to contribute there. A7V2 (talk) 22:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Table suggestion
Fellows, I've been thinking we should just split the drivers chart between full season entires and Indy/partial season entries. The split tables will be better organized and it makes more sense since most of the teams are running the full 2013 schedule. I've come up with a prototype chart for you all to look at.

And here is the limited entires table

So what do you all think?Gaeaman787 (talk) 18:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't really like it. I think the current format handles things like driver changes more easily and is more easily extensible to support series. I think it's also useful to keep all a team's entries together in one place. -Drdisque (talk) 17:38, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Do we really need a notes column? Isn't that just encouraging people to put all kinds of trivia in there? If there is something sufficiently noteworthy of mention it should go into the season review article rather than this table.
 * Why not one table for all entries rather than seperate into full series and part series. The results matrix will take care of mentioning which drivers competed full series or part series. --Falcadore (talk) 01:39, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Previous season have had split tables between the full season entries and the partial season entries. A driver change for a full season car is handled by making an extra row for that driver. You can use the Tooltip function to denote the number of races a sub driver runs. I also think we should get rid of the box color. Unless we're making note of something specific with the teams, then there's no point to them being there. The references will of course go in the references section. If it turns out that Legge is only running a partial season, but her car is running the whole schedule then you can use Tooltip to indicate the number of races they're running. Essentially, the IndyCar pages should be brought in line with the other motorsport pages on wikipedia to provide consistency.Gaeaman787 (talk) 21:35, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Other Wikipedia pages don't split between full and part season drivers. And the tendancy is to sort teams in numerological order rather than alphabetical. --05:42, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Then why are there differently colored boxes for the teams? Unless you're denoting engine manufacturers then there's no point to them. My concern is that if there are alot of partial entries, it inflates te box and clusters it. I just feel as though cutting up tables between the ful season entries and the Indy 500 or partial season entries is more organized. Look at the 2007 IndyCar page. Gaeaman787 (talk) 05:54, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * This is closer to a standard wikipedia format. --Falcadore (talk) 06:02, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Then change it to that then, and we might want to make a page for the DW12 since its all redlinked. Or we could have the engine manufacturer listed first then do the teams alphabetically. It makes no sense as to why Prisonermonkeys reformatted the NASCAR pages with the manufacturer first if this is the standard format.Gaeaman787 (talk) 04:34, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * References?

Don Edmunds
Sources differ regarding Don Edmunds' date of death. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the discussion at Talk:Don Edmunds. DH85868993 (talk) 12:38, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Request for article, or at least a stub, for aeroscreen
The word "aeroscreen" appears in 23 articles, but it does not appear to be defined well or linked to an article that explains what it means. In some cases, it appears to be a type of windscreen, and in others, it appears to refer to a new Red Bull-developed safety device. Some expert help is needed here. A short article similar to Halo (safety device), or even a section in that article if it is appropriate, would be welcome. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:43, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Former winner & Rookie tags
For several weeks and months a bit of a edit war has been going back and forth on numerous articles (see 2020 Indianapolis 500 for instance). What to use as the tag for former winners and rookies. Originally it was a bolded letter, then it was replaced with a color box. It's back and forth on many articles. Examples:


 * 🇳🇿 Scott Dixon (W)
 * 🇳🇿 Scott Dixon

and


 * Rinus VeeKay (R)
 * Rinus VeeKay

It would good to have some sort of consensus, rather than constant edit wars and reverts. Doctorindy↔Talk 15:19, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm relatively new here at AOWR, and I'm not saying the way NASCAR does it is best, but WikiProject NASCAR doesn't do former winner tags at all and does the bolded rookie tags, avoiding colorboxes all together.  Willsome 4 29  (say hey or see my edits!) — Preceding undated comment added 01:53, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

AFD notice
The article 2007 Las Vegas Atlantic Grand Prix has been nominated for deletion. Interested parties are welcome to contribute to the discussion here. MWright96 (talk) 09:26, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Lore sections on TV templates
As part of the future of NASCAR lore article, you are invited to discuss the future of lore sections in Template:IndyCar Series on ABC and Template:IndyCar Series on NBC here. FMecha (to talk|to see log) 10:26, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Larry Connor
Does anyone know about Larry Connor? Apparently he was a F2000 champ? (I don't follow F2000) His bio is missing is racing career, but since he's been an announced Axiom Space space tourist, it seems the time to update the bio. -- 65.93.183.33 (talk) 00:39, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Indy Lights halo
In the 2021 season, Indy Lights added the halo rollbar device instead of the IndyCar plexiglass windscreen. The Indy Lights article should cover that change and why it added a halo instead of a windsrceen. Does anyone know the reason for the halo instead of the windshield? -- 67.70.27.246 (talk) 16:16, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

PRODs of potential interest to editors
Related to the above, there are three recent proposed deletions which may be of interest to editors in this wikiproject since they concern (potential, as the above section makes clear) constructors who competed in the Indy 500. They are Hall (constructor), Turner (constructor) and Schroeder (constructor). I am mentioning this here as they do not appear on WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing/Article alerts. A7V2 (talk) 12:37, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Phillips (constructor) was recently deprodded on the basis that on the basis that "Competing in the Indy 500 is notable". Is there general support for this view? (In which case, I will deprod the other 2 remaining articles). In the meantime, I'll look for additional information/sources on each of the constructors. DH85868993 (talk) 23:09, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I would agree with "Competing in the Indy 500 is notable" and support deprod. Thanks for taking these articles under your wings! I would undelete Hall (constructor) to draft space if you want me.  Royal broil  00:17, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I've deprodded Schroeder (constructor) and Sherman (constructor)., I'd appreciate it if you could undelete Hall (constructor) and Turner (constructor) to draftspace for me. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 03:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I restored both and moved to draftspace so you have time to bring them up to Encyclopedic standards (when you have time).  Royal broil  04:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 05:12, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Bill Mackey / 1951 Indianapolis 500
Sources differ over the chassis make driven by Bill Mackey in the 1951 Indianapolis 500: Can anyone provide additional info? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 11:59, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * formula1.com and FORIX (subscription site so I can't provide a link) identify the car as a "Hall", whereas
 * racing-reference.info, indianapolismotorspeedway.com and motorsportmagazine.com identify the car as a "Stevens" entered by Karl Hall.
 * Grand Prix! identifies the car as a/the "Karl Hall Special", but it uses a name like "Sponsor Special" for all cars at Indy (or at least I didn't notice any which aren't, certainly that's the case for 1951), and Bill Mackey's car is the only one who's name in the book is at all similar to the one on the current Wikipedia page. In Pat Kennedy's Indy 500 Recaps, it says the car was "named" for Karl Hall, but was a "Stevens/Offy". I'd lean towards it being a "Stevens". A7V2 (talk) 12:32, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree. If there are no objections within the next 24 hours, I'll change it from "Hall" to "Stevens". Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 03:43, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I've updated 1951 Indianapolis 500, Bill Mackey and Stevens (constructor) accordingly (Hall (constructor) has been deleted, so no update was required). DH85868993 (talk) 05:41, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

AFD of possible interest
There is a discussion at Articles for deletion/Schroeder (constructor) which is relevant to this Wikiproject. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 09:23, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Template:IndyCar sanctioning history
There's a issue with Template:IndyCar sanctioning history: it's too big to be read. For now I reduced the font size.Rpo.castro (talk) 20:38, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Surely there must be a better way to present the information in this template?! It's quite ugly to look at and doesn't convey much to me. Even just simple date ranges would be better since it's at the edges (ie during the "war"s) where things are most interesting but this is somewhat lost due to the scale. I also don't understand what the different shading is supposed to mean? Is it somehow related to the "strength" or prestige of the different series in some sense (which seems to be a bit of WP:OR?). Also note there's an error in that the USAC actually sanctioned IRL races until June 1997 . A7V2 (talk) 22:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:00, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Draft help
I've probably should ask this from the moment I began working on it (my first try got declined), but can anyone on this WikiProject help with Draft:First Responder 175 (the iRacing incident from two years ago)? FMecha (to talk&#124;to see log) 14:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

USF Pro Championships rebrand
Should we lay out a plan for what to do following the rebranding of the Road to Indy this year?

I'm not sure how to manage the Road to Indy page, since we don't know yet what's going to happen with Lights; but at the very least we should be moving:
 * Indy Pro 2000 Championship -> USF Pro 2000 Championship
 * U.S. F2000 National Championship -> USF2000 Championship

as well as correcting various templates such as Template:USF2000, Template:Andersen Promotions, Template:Road to Indy; and updating Chris Griffis Memorial Test as it now encompasses Indy Lights only (the junior series now have the "USF Pro Fall Combine") 🇮🇪 TheChrisD  {💬|✏️} 19:22, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Indy NXT rebrand
Yay, more rebranding we're going to have to sort out... Indy Lights is now INDY NXT; but presumably per MoS we'll be renaming most pages to use Indy NXT? 🇮🇪 TheChrisD  {💬|✏️} 15:03, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments are used by Wikipedia editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project decides to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:52, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Grand Prix of Long Beach
An IP editor keeps changing the Indycar *race* lap record at Grand Prix of Long Beach to Justin Wilson's pole time from 2008. I've reverted them twice and left a message on their talk page. Can someone else revert their latest changes? I can't do it due to WP:3RR. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 04:28, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

IMS Museum 2nd Place Exhibit Photos
Is anybody here living in the Indianapolis-area, and willing to visit the IMS Museum for some photos of vehicles from the 2nd Place exhibit before its closure mid-June? The photos would make good content for some Wiki pages.

RegalZ8790 (talk) 21:55, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Gian Paolo Dallara
I'm proposing that Gian Paolo Dallara be moved to Giampaolo Dallara. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the existing discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 11:48, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

2020 Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg
Seeing that the to-do list was requesting the creation of 2020 races, I noticed that the article for the 2020 St. Pete GP needed to be created, so I created a draft while I worked on it. Now that I finished it, I've now seen that there was already a redirect page with the race name in the mainspace. Should, I move the information from the draft to the mainspace article, remove the redirect link & request the deletion of the draft article? - HotMAN0199 (talk) 22:29, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Let's show our appreciation
Let's show our appreciation to @Thenascarman, who has just finished creating reports for the USAC/CART era California 500s, which follow the articles they have created for the Michigan and Pocono 500-mile races. Thanks to their dedication, this WP has achieved a major goal of having articles for all 500-mile races run during the USAC/CART eras!

Thank you!! RegalZ8790 (talk) 03:36, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Color Code for rankings in race results overview
See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Motorsport --Mark McWire (talk) 10:52, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Proposed change to Template:Infobox Grand Prix race report
An editor has proposed a change to Template:Infobox Grand Prix race report. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the existing discussion. It's relevant to this WikiProject because that infobox is used in the Indianapolis 500 articles from 1950 to 1960, when the race was a round of the World Drivers' Championship. DH85868993 (talk) 00:07, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Indy 500 infobox discussion
Hi, for a long time I've noticed that information about winning chassis and engine manufacturer on Indy 500 pages can be buried quite deep in the article, even though this is IMO quite an important information. I was wondering how people feel about adding a winning chassis and a winning engine entry in the infobox? An alternative I was thinking about would be to add a caption entry, and add info about the winning car there, since the infobox picture for most 500 pages represents the winning car. SunflowerYuri (talk) 10:50, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't see a need to revisit the consensus regarding what information is in the 500 infoboxes.
 * RegalZ8790 (talk) 04:58, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Chassis/engine information is pertinent, but it would be a lot of work to add it to an already lengthy infobox. Since chassis/engine information is found in the box score (along with other information), I think the discussion can be tabled for another day. Doctorindy↔Talk 14:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Champ Car redirect
I've just noticed that back in June 2020, the target of the redirect Champ Car was changed from Championship Auto Racing Teams (which covers 1979-2003) to Champ Car World Series (which covers 2004-2008). I couldn't find any related discussion. (There was this move discussion in January/February 2020 which resulted in Champ Car redirecting to Championship Auto Racing Teams, but I couldn't find a discussion for the target being changed to Champ Car World Series).

Anyway, as a result of the retarget, many links which used to link (via the redirect) to Championship Auto Racing Teams now link (via the redirect) to Champ Car World Series instead. As an example: Jackie Stewart contains the following wikitext:


 * Later, Stewart covered CART IndyCar races starting at Long Beach in 1987 on NBC SportsWorld, along with Paul Page. He returned in 1988, along with Charlie Jones. Stewart only covered road course and street races in his brief time at NBC. He did not return in 1989 and was replaced by Johnny Rutherford and Tom Sneva.

Clearly, in this case, the text "CART Indycar" should link to Championship Auto Racing Teams (1979-2003), not Champ Car World Series (2004-2008). How should we handle this? Simply revert the (undiscussed?) change (noting that Talk:Champ Car still redirects to Talk:Championship Auto Racing Teams)? Or go through and update all the articles which link to Champ Car? (there are currently 1680 links to Champ Car but some of these would be via templates). DH85868993 (talk) 00:58, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see the same change was also made to the redirects ChampCar, OWRS, Champ cars, Champcar, CCWS, Champ car, Champcars, Champ Cars, ChampCars and ChampCar World Series. DH85868993 (talk) 01:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Pinging, who made the changes. DH85868993 (talk) 01:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I had forgotten I even made those changes since that was a while ago, but I probably thought that Champ Car was a more logical redirect to Champ Car World Series than Championship Auto Racing Teams since the name was more similar (both CART and CCWS were originally covered at the Champ Car page before they were split into their own pages). If you think my changes should be reverted, I would have no problem with that, and I don't think there was any previous discussion about this. Carfan568 (talk) 15:47, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * My initial thought was that it would be best to just revert the changes, thereby immediately "fixing" all the links. However, it does seem more intuitive for Champ Car to redirect to Champ Car World Series rather than Championship Auto Racing Teams, so perhaps fixing the links in the articles is a better solution. (Also noting that since June 2020, some new links to Champ Car (or the other redirects) may have been added which should link to Champ Car World Series, therefore linking these to Championship Auto Racing Teams (by reverting the redirects) would be incorrect. Let's see what other people have to say. DH85868993 (talk) 09:21, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * My thought would also be to fix the links. Furthermore, several of those redirects are a bit superfluous and/or incorrect. For instance, ChampCar World Series. Correct would be Champ Car World Series.
 * IMO, Champ car should redirect to American open-wheel car racing, and Champ Car to Champ Car World Series.
 * Regarding Jackie Stewart, my thought is the article should just read "CART". Alternatively, "Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART)." RegalZ8790 (talk) 19:56, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I welcomed the change. It is logical and technically more accurate. While Champ Car World Series ("Champ Car") was the successor organization to Championship Auto Racing Teams ("CART"), they actually are and should be treated as two distinct manifestations. I think we should fix the links. Incidentally, I have been casually fixing such links when I encounter them. The phrase "Champ Car", whether describing the sanctioning body or the vehicles themselves, largely disappeared from use in the 1980s and early 1990s. It did not really re-enter the lexicon until the Split in 1996. Specifically the folks on the CART side started using the term "Champ Car" again around 1997 in an effort to distance themselves from the IRL. Doctorindy↔Talk 21:28, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, do you mean "I welcome" in your first sentence? Or are you in favor of how things are currently?
 * Personally, I think we should distinguish between "Champ car" with a small 'c', and "Champ Car" with an upper case. The former to me is simply a colloquialism of "Championship car," which as you mentioned is a term that has largely fallen from everyday use. This term I understand to refer to the type of automobile.
 * As for "Champ Car," I agree with you that the most common usage is when referring to the CCWS as a series or sanctioning body.
 * I feel the two terms should redirect to separate locations.
 * RegalZ8790 (talk) 01:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * To clarify, I saw that the change had been "soft-implemented" (if that makes sense) a while ago, and I liked it, as I agreed that it made sense. Although no discussion was untaken about doing it, I was supportive of going along, and began making an effort to fix wikilinks where I encountered them. So in summary, I support having Champ Car re-direct to Champ Car World Series, and mentions of the CART series (1979-2002) need to be Championship Auto Racing Teams, preferable with piping to make it CART. Now to address the other angle. I believe the discussion was brought up a long time ago. That is, the difference between INDYCAR, IndyCar, Indy Car, Indy car, Champ Car, Champ car, ChampCar, Championship Car, Championship car, Open wheel car, etc. That probably needs its own discussion. Doctorindy↔Talk 19:48, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

US 500 article / merge proposal
There is disorganization and a little bit of confusion/redundancy with respect to the article for the U.S. 500. It's spread over three articles. A while back, a bunch of content from the Michigan 500 article was removed and dumped into the U.S. 500 article. Specifically, the "fall race" results from 1973-1986 at Michigan was added to the US 500, but those events have zero connection. I guess the specious connection being that it represented the 'second race' at Michigan besides the Michigan 500. Even that makes little sense as the summer Michigan 500 didn't start until 1981...there were two races for many years before there was a 500. And the 1996 US 500 was a one time only race (due to the Split). That "fall race" information really has no business being part of the US 500 article.

There's also more to it. There's a separate article 1996 U.S. 500. That is intended to detail the race on 5/26/96. It's ok, but I think it deserves more attention/expansion. There's lot missing that could be added to bring it up to standards. Qualifying results, expanded prose, etc. As for the name, the U.S. 500 in it's original form only happened once...5/26/96. After that, the race event was dropped from the schedule, but CART decided to keep the fancy "US 500" moniker and reused it for the July 500 miler in 1997-1998-1999. It was never used after that.

I think some work needs to be done. I suggest the "fall race" information should be moved back to and reintegrated into Michigan 500. That article would serve as a cover-all article for all Indy car races at Michigan (as it more or less used to be), given that fact that they no longer race there, haven't been there in 16 years, and there's no future race on the horizon. I might even support renaming the article something to the effect of IndyCar Series at the Michigan International Speedway...something that has been done, for example, with IndyCar Series at the Milwaukee Mile.

Then, I also suggest U.S. 500 and 1996 U.S. 500 be merged into one single article. Two articles for one event just does not make sense, it's redundant, and at the same time, some information appears in one but not the other. I think using the latter article title is better 1996 U.S. 500. A small mention can be made that the name was re-used three more times, but make it clear there was only one running of the US 500. Doctorindy↔Talk 22:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I support a merge of U.S. 500 into 1996 U.S. 500.


 * I feel a bit differently on combining the remaining content into one article. I feel the Michigan 500 deserves its own stand-alone article. The 500-milers were always more prestigious than the other races.
 * RegalZ8790 (talk) 02:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Support Merging all MIS Indycar content to two articles, one about the 1996 US 500 and one about all other races, US 500 would be mentioned and linked in the all other races article. -Drdisque (talk) 21:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment: With no objections, work is progressing. 1996 U.S. 500 has been thoroughly expanded. U.S. 500 will re-direct to 1996 U.S. 500, with a hatnote linking it to Michigan 500. All MIS races will be merged into the Michigan 500 article, with clearly defined sections. Doctorindy↔Talk 18:42, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: After further consideration, it made more sense to make U.S. 500 a disambiguation page, With hatnotes on both 1996 U.S. 500 and Michigan 500. Doctorindy↔Talk 19:50, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: Good idea. The expanded article on the 1996 race is looking great. RegalZ8790 (talk) 04:01, 20 January 2024 (UTC)