Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Archive 1

Character names
I cannot agree with using the character names licensees choose. I think we shouldn't really follow the licensees, but the authors. For the series/movie/etc name I'd just place a redirection, but using their weird names for characters is a bit too much; I understand it as if we were supporting the value-destroying westernization some licensees apply to anime or manga, by doing evil stuff like renaming characters, destroying jokes, converting typical japanese phrase structures (ogenki desu ka?) to stuff which may be used in a similar way in english (how are you?) but don't mean the same as something more accurate like "are you in good spirits?" would. Maybe we should go with just listing them as alternative names, but that's my opinion. In whatever case, the original kanjis and transliterations must be there and must not be hidden. I'd also add a section commenting the differences between the real thing and the licensee's version, if the level of harm makes it worthy.Rvalles 06:38, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * I just added a qualifier to that section, to ignore the english translation if it's horrible. -Pyrop 22:51, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * In the case of Yu-Gi-Oh!, I am using the manga names (i.e. the original Japanese in most if not all cases) for the article titles for the characters. But they may be mentioned using English anime names in some YGO-related articles. WhisperToMe 06:13, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Titles for character pages

 * I think that "[Series name] characters" would be a better title format than "List of Characters in {name of series}". It's more concise and is already in use for some articles, such as Ranma ½ characters and Neon Genesis Evangelion main characters. Josh 07:27, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * Looking through the Featured Articles in Media, the three pages i saw with character pages have the following forms;
 * List of characters in Blackadder
 * Minor characters in Tintin
 * List of Star Trek characters

(It should be noted that the majority of the Featured Articles in Media pages do not have seperate character pages!)

I'm impartial between "List of characters in Series" and "Characters in Series", but "List of Series characters" and "Series characters" strike me as a little ungrammatical. (Names aren't adjectives.) -&#8472;yrop (talk) 16:02, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)


 * You're probably right about the grammar issues. Out of the options that you mention, I would prefer "Characters in Series". It would be nice to find a way to have the series name as the first word of the title, yet still use something that is grammatically correct. I am not sure if that is possible, though. Josh 05:09, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)


 * The Simpsons also uses List of characters from The Simpsons. Whether we call something "List of" or not should depend on if it's a list or not. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 03:27, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

Singapore English manga
I would like for someone in Singapore to find and scan book covers of Chuang Yi's English manga titles, such as the Singaporean English Love Hina. WhisperToMe 02:05, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Todo list.
I've (re)added the todolist to this page. Anyone else add anything they consider pertinent. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 01:46, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)


 * Fixed the template for the right namespace -- EmperorBMA|&#35441;&#12377; 17:32, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Episode list?
Should we bother to include episode lists on articles on anime? It doesn't really seem to add anything, in my opinion. E.g., yeah, episode 16 of Chobits may be titled "Chii Does Nothing", but that really tells us nothing useful. It's like listing the chapters of a book, something we don't do for any of the articles on books for wikipedia unless they're very, very large and very important (e.g. the bible). -&#8472;yrop (talk) 22:17, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * Also, take a look a previous discussion on the WikiProject Television talk page. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 22:23, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)


 * Upon further inspection, i'm in favor of regulating episode lists etc. to a seperate "media" page, (e.g. Cowboy Bebop media information for Cowboy Bebop, Chobits media information for Chobits). The phrase "media information" sounds awkward to me, though. We're an encyclopedia, isn't everything here supposed to be information? -&#8472;yrop (talk) 22:42, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * It is a bit awkward, although I can't think of a title that is any better. Josh 20:35, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)


 * What exactly should we do for episode titles that actually do convey information? For example, every single Last Exile title is an allusion to chess (Sicilian defense, Zugzwang, Isolated Pawn, etc.) It's my impression that this comes up less often for television series at large than for anime series. - RedWordSmith 23:27, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * For those series, we should probably mention in the main article that the titles are related and then give a few examples of episode titles. However, even in a case like that, it is probably unnecessary to have every episode title, at least in the main article. Josh 01:32, Dec 29, 2004 (UTC)

Missing images in the DBZ character pages
It's been a while since several images seem to be missing on many of the DBZ characters' pages. Examples are Vegeta, Future Trunks and Chibi Trunks. For some reason they just disappeared, so maybe something should be done about this. Perhaps they were never uploaded in the first place (I wouldn't know), but in that case, the boxes shouldn't read "Missing image". That message shouldn't be shown if there isn't any image available. Any ideas?--Kaonashi 04:55, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, it appears that the template used for the information boxes on those pages assumes that it can find a picture of each character at "NAME_photo.jpg". Most likely, the pages that you mentioned never had pictures. Josh 05:41, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)


 * Image:Vegeta photo.jpg etc. don't show up in the deletion log, so i suspect they were never uploaded. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 05:57, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, I understand it now. Perhaps the template should be modified to make it deal with situations like this. Unfortunately, I don't know a whole lot about table/box creation, so I'm not sure if I can help there. =[ --Kaonashi 17:37, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Templates, and stubs
I am looking at some of the other projects and comparing it to this one. Things i've noticed. This project has no stub or templates.

the closest thing i've seen is template:manga. I think a temmplate like in WikiProject Computer and video games will help standardize articals.

also, if we can get an anime and manga stub, we'll be able to group articals that need to be developed. ZeWrestler 14 Jan 2004

Naturally, as soon as i comment about this, i find an anime stub. template:anime-stub ZeWrestler 14 Jan 2004

Conflicts with Names
Anime producer Toshio Suzuki currently comes up with a Japanese racecar driver, is there any suggestions for a standard way of dealing with other possible name conflicts we may encounter in the future? --Neilworms 23:53, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Aren't the general disambiguation guidelines sufficient for this sort of situation? Josh 00:37, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is. You take the main name and make that a disambig page.  You then split the people up based on something specific to them.  See Tomoyuki Tanaka for an example. --Mitsukai 19:54, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Project progress
I think we ought to hash out some article guidelines that are more manga/anime-specific, in an effort to standardize this sector of Wikipedia. An infobox template would also be handy, as well as other project-y things like cleanup tags. - mako 07:16, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Article to fix
Anyone who knows anything about the manga Zettai Kareshi, could you please fix up its page? It'll probably end up deleted if it's not fixed relatively soon, and i'd rather it stick around if it's notable. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 21:07, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Infobox
There's been some interest in anime infoboxes. As an experiment, i've added the movie infobox to Akira (film). It seems it would be a good idea to split off our own anime infobox (some things on the movie infobox aren't important in the context of anime, some important things are missing); we can use the movie infobox as a departure point, though. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 20:16, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)


 * One thing we need to work out is how many infoboxes belong on a page. For example Akira is both film and manga. So what do we do? Two separate boxes? Split up the article and have one box on each page? One single monster box with all formats? Just imagine when a subject has manga, anime, and movie(s). To me it seems the least cluttered route of one box per page makes the most sense. -mako 03:20, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm leaning towards a big box for everything; there's going to be a ton of overlapping information if we have more than one box. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 03:28, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * I would think that manga and anime formats are separate enough that they warrant separate boxes. There may be some overlap, but then again, there may be very little. A big box might work (it would need to be able to handle movies, TV series, and books), but for titles that have only one of the 3, that would mean a lot of empty fields. Then again, perhaps the big box could be the default template, and series for which the info doesn't overlap can use the existing separate templates. I think it largely depends on what kind of info you're planning to include. Fadeblue 19:36, 18 May 2005 (UTC)


 * For those interested, I've created a rough draft of a template and put it on a subpage of my user page. Just go to my user page and you can see it half-filled with Evangelion info as an example. Fadeblue 03:03, 20 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Very good! Hope you don't mind us editing your user page while working on this, though. I've modified it to include a "Japanese name" field. What exactly goes in the "runtime" box? -&#8472;yrop (talk) 03:58, May 20, 2005 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with you editing the page. I just wanted something so that we could start working on it. Good thinking with the Japanese name fields... I can't believe I forgot that. Oh, and I took runtime from the movie and TV templates; it's basically the length of each episode, although I suppose it's not even that necessary. Also, how should we handle OAVs and movies? Fadeblue 04:27, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Looks good =). I think runtime for episodes is somewhat unnecessary, though we could combine that with No of episodes to save a line. Things like Seiyuu we may want to think about just linking from the box if there's a list of them. OVAs and movies... it depends on how articles are set up. I'm worrying about of something like Tenchi Muyo!, which is a major organizational headache with its multiple OVAs, TV series, and movies. In another example, Ghost in the Shell, the manga and movie go together while the TV series have their own pages. For Eva, End of Eva has its own page (and infobox) while Death and Rebirth doesn't even have an article.

If we want a general-purpose infobox, we could pull some tricks like the conditionals used in Template:Peru region table to allow selective display of information. This approach could allow for a modular infobox, with anime/manga/ova/movie components.

Also, do we want to eschew compactness and go for things like Mecha Designer and Character Designer? It might be notable for certain series. - mako 20:18, 20 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree about runtime; I'll remove that. I'll also change "Seiyu" to "Notable seiyu," and if a series has many, then that can be a section of the article and you can just have a link in the infobox like "(see list)" or something. I'll also add an "Other notable staff" entry for now, and you can add people such as character designers there (with their role in parentheses, I guess?).


 * I'm still not sure about what we should do about the other stuff. I think all movies should probably be separate pages, although they could be linked to from a main page about the franchise as a whole. However, I still can't think of a good way to cover tv/oav/manga, unless we do decide on using conditionals. I'll see if I can cook something up.


 * Another thought I had - maybe there should be a smaller infobox for single seasons/OAV series? This would work for seasons/OAVs that have their own section in the article or are on a separate subpage.

Or maybe we could do subtemplates for each component and then have a main infobox as a container for those subtemplates? You could theoretically add as many subtemplates as you want, right? Fadeblue 21:35, 20 May 2005 (UTC) Never mind. I can't seem to get it to work. Fadeblue 22:17, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I've made what you were trying to do work. See User:Pyrop/Sandbox. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 04:08, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I like. Works for me. --Mitsukai 21:06, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Now that's an elegant approach that I hadn't thought of, with the header and footer. While the badger was amusing, I filled that box in with something else. I suppose the OVA box could be just a clone of the anime one. Also we should tighten up the spacing of this box, as it feels rather large. - mako 21:10, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that approach is very nice. I added one for OAVs (X3) too. Fadeblue 23:45, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * We can probably move this to the Template namespace and finalize it there. I suppose we could embrace the term "animanga" and use Template:Infobox animanga, if only to avoid an unwieldy title. But first we should probably come to a consensus on whether to use OVA or OAV. - mako 19:50, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

It should match whatever is used in the main article on OVAs/OAVs, which happens to be OVA. Are we agreed on using the term "animanga"? Fadeblue 20:46, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd like at least a third opinion on "animanga" before proceeding. - mako 05:15, 28 May 2005 (UTC)


 * It's good. Go for it. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 15:18, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

For superheroes/heroines in anime and manga, I say we should just use Template:Superherobox. I have just added that particular infobox to the article on Sailor Moon, with the heading colour of #ff80ff, indicating a Japanese publisher. Denelson83 22:14, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I noticed Mako moved the infobox to the Template namespace, but didn't mention it here. So, what else needs to be changed? I know the OVA module at least needs changing, since there's no network and broadcast dates. I suppose the big question is how exactly do we plan to use these for series such as those with multiple OVAs (for example, Tenchi)? Do we need to include a "Title" parameter and then include each OVA separately in the infobox? Or do we want the infobox just to mention that there are X OVAs which each had Y episodes? And what about those with multiple movies, or with multiple seasons (where some of the information may vary between seasons)? Fadeblue 21:12, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, a title parameter right after "OVA" would allow us to handle multiple OVAs; we should probably apply that to the Movie module as well. Let's continue the discussion on Template_talk:Infobox_animanga. - mako 06:35, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Saint Seiya
It has come to my attention the way the article about the Saint Seiya series has been the target of users (yes, more than one) adding several images to it. Thing is, most of them not only have no copyright status, but they just don't fit the article. They're not encyclopedic, and they were added with no formatting care at all. A good share of them consist of high quality shots of the new Cloth Myth series action figures. While there's nothing really bad about that, they don't really fit the article and have no real use there. I think they don't do a good job on representing what the article is really about. At least one other user has removed those images, but they are back again. I did as well, but not this time. They were all added back by another user, as well as with new ones.

Well, I know I don't post here very much, but I thought it'd be a good idea to call the attention of more of you people involved on this project. It'd be nice to have other users pratrolling that article in order to avoid things like this from happening. If anyone has different opinions regarding this, we can discuss about them here. Like I said, I didn't remove the images this time, but I think they should be. They should also be voted for deletion, by the way. Ah, some new info was added to that article in the last days, as well. I plan to work on that later, and adapt it.

Thank you for your attention.--Kaonashi 05:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Infobox is ready (... not quite)
That's right, it's ready, but any final comments are welcome before the "official" rollout. See Template:Infobox_animanga. - mako 22:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Options for live action and stage adaptions? --Kunzite 06:09, 2005 August 4 (UTC)
 * Fadeblue did mention doramas, but I'm not too familiar with them. Stage adaptations are something new to me. I suppose we could work out the parameters for some more boxes. In the meantime I guess it wouldn't hurt to start putting some anime/manga boxes up. - mako 00:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I remember mako suggested using the animanga infobox + the television infobox for series with dorama, and that could work. I don't know anything about stage adaptations, and I don't think I've seen any infobox for any other stage production (not even well-established plays or musicals). In any case, the nice thing about the animanga template is that we can always add additional sections without messing up existing boxes, and there's also the "other" section if you want to add info for a particular series.
 * I'll start putting up some boxes soon. Fadeblue 01:22, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks like we're still revising: Template talk:Infobox animanga. - mako 03:50, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

New Category
Hey, I just created the Category:Anime and manga terminology category for, well, anime and manga terms. This is meant to reduce some of the voluminous amount of articles in the root Category:Manga and Category:Anime categories. I'm working to move over any anime terms right now; if someone could do the same for the manga cat, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.--Mitsukai 13:18, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Deletion list
Hi folks,

I just wanted to let you know about a list of deletions related to comics and animation. You can find it at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Comics and animation. Lots of anime and manga-related material on there.

Anyway, if you find the list useful, please help to maintain it by adding new items and archiving old ones. Also you might want to check that anime and manga items are copied to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Japan. Thanks!

Cheers,

-- Visviva 15:40, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Uke and Seme pages
Please feel free to pass this on to other WikiProjects that might have some input in this. Thanks.

Though the Uke and Seme pages touch upon martial arts (where the terms originally came from), they're mostly about the sexual connotations. In fact, they outweigh the original ones (on Uke, thee paragraphs for MA term, more than twice that for the sex term; on Seme, one vice five times that). Needless to say, this really looks bad.

I'm proposing that we either merge the sexual terms onto one page, such as Uke and Seme, or that we take the martial arts terms and put them onto two pages, such as Uke (martial arts term), Seme (martial arts term). Personally, I'm of the opinion that we should move and merge the sexual terms, as the MA terms were there first and have a longer meaning. Conversely, though, from what I can see, most Westerners only know the sexual connotations.

Maybe it's not a big issue, but the terms are so dissonant (at least, when explained in English) that they jar, somewhat.--Mitsukai 18:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Fair-use Screenshots
It is sometimes useful to include screenshots from anime series. If you upload such an image use the image copyright tag template. I have updated fair use copyright tag film-screenshot description to also include anime screenshots. --dionyziz 19:58, 15 September 2005 (UTC).

Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project
Hi, I'm a member of the Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles on anime or manga? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Walkerma 06:23, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I have so far identified Anime as A-class, and Manga, Robotech, Sailor Moon, Vegeta, Cowboy Bebop as B-class. Are these assessments OK? I'm not an expert in this area. Are there any other good articles we should know about? Thanks, Walkerma 15:25, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Ten Powers
The cleanup taskforce has had a go at cleaning up the article about Rave Master. This article was originally tagged for cleanup during April 2005. See Cleanup Taskforce/Ten Powers to see what has been done. Can anyone with some background knowledge on the topic take a look and finish the cleanup process please? Stewart Adcock 14:03, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Anime Barnstar/Award
Since no one voted on my proposal on the official proposal page for a week, maybe the members of this project will, or could adopt it as the official award for the project. See Barnstar and award proposals. -- Ynhockey 22:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

No fear, Cool Cat manifests!
Ne ways, working on Oh My Goddess! with a number of users. It was a single article when i arived now its about 60+ (who is counting). Feel free to give a hand. -- Cool CatTalk 19:56, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Could someone provide me with waist, bust,etc. sizes for Hild...? I'm guessing she is W22, but I'm not sure..:)-MegamanZero 20:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

A Wikipedia article on the similarities between Evangelion and RahXephon - Would this be considered relevant?
I want to make a Wikipedia article on the similarities between the two anime Evangelion and RahXephon. The article will be done more or less in the same style as this website:.

The article would be composed primarily of images from both series that show similarities in some way. A screenshot from Evangelion would be on the right, a screenshot from RahXephon would be on the left, and there would be text beneath each picture and above both pictures describing the similarities between them (not just in appearance, but also in underlying meaning, the words spoken during that scene, what was going on in that scene, and anything else about the screenshots that points out how the two anime similar are to one another).

I believe that such a page would definately be relevant to fans of Evangelion and/or RahXephon, and to those who debate on whether or not the two series are similar. However, would this page be considered acceptable by Wikipedia?


 * Refer to this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_wikipedia_is_not
 * In particular, Wikipedia is not a place for original research. And although the page may be relevant to fans of the series, Wikipedia isn't a fansite. -Fadeblue 02:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

...Ah...Well...I wouldn't really consider it 'research', just a compendium of images that showcase similarities. It would be relevant to fans, but that doesn't make it a fansite. I'm a fan of anime, and the anime wiki article is relevant to me, but that doesn't make it a fansite...EvaXephon 03:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * "Wikipedia articles are not collections of photographs or media files with no text to go with the articles." You need encyclopedic content to accompany the images. A comparison between two series is not encyclopedic content, either. (Otherwise, why shouldn't there be an article comparing/contrasting every pair of creative works?) And I think you misunderstood my comment about Wikipedia not being a fansite. I was simply stating that "relevance to fans" is not a justification for inclusion in Wikipedia.
 * Additionally, under what title would you propose to place the article? "Similarities between Evangelion and RahXephon"? -Fadeblue 03:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'd have to agree that this falls under original research. It also seems difficult to construct such an article from a neutral point of view; consider for example a companion article called "Differences between Eva and RX". Either has an ingrained bias, and we're not looking to fuel flamewars. It's a worthy project, but it doesn't belong on WP. I do think that an external link to such a page would be appropriate. - mako 04:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

...I see...when you guys put it that way, it doesn't seem right. That's too bad. Would anyone care to reccomend a good hosting service that I could use for my project? Preferably one that allows lots of images. ...And...yeah...I actually was going to place it under "Similarities between Evangelion and RahXephon"...EvaXephon 04:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Neon Genesis Evangelion and RahXephon already exist. Dominick (TALK) 16:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Initial D
Recently I've made a slew of additions to the Initial D article series, including a recategorization of the articles, inclusion of the infobox, removal of personal pronouns, and creating a seperate article for characters and teams. If anyone cares to look it over and provide any additional info or feedback (I seem to be the only one), please dont hesitate to take a look. Related pages are located at Category:Initial D -- Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk 22:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * A few of the pages have non-standard capitalization (don't use them unless there's a name), and taking a look at this page, I see headings with all caps :O Good thing splitting the teams and characters into a separate article, the main article was a bit on the large side.—Philip N.✉ 21:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

End of archive 01