Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Sailor Moon/Archive 4

Removal of titles/forms
Out of courosity, are Super Sailor (Name) being removed, as well as Eternal Sailor Moon, from the hero boxes? They are distinct forms (I see how the former could cuase an argument but that is thier anime title) Super Sailor Moon, Super Sailor Chibi-Moon, And Eternal Sailor Moon Should defently stay! Lego3400: The Sage of Time 22:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem is, beyond Super Sailor Senshi, we have no confirmation on what the other Sailor Soldiers are called in the manga. Also, it's not really considered an alias, just a more powerful version of the same character.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 03:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yup. This discussion was up for some time with no disagreement. An 'alias' is a secret name somebody goes by other than their normal name. 'Sailor Moon' would count, but the infobox already has that as its title, and the alias sections were getting horrendously crowded ("Sailor Chibi Moon, Super Sailor Chibi Moon, Sailor Mini Moon (English), Super Sailor Mini Moon (English)"...it was awful.) No information was removed--in fact, a lot was added. It's all down in the Forms section now. --Masamage 05:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The thing is, only Sailor Moon and Sailor Chibi-Moon's Powered up forms are named in the manga. (Chibi-Moon's last form is unnamed though) The other's super forms are only named in the anime, so that shouldn't be much of a worry.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't understand what you're getting at. Do you think that only Moon and Chibi Moon should have their Senshi forms omitted from the box? Or do you think that only named manga forms should be listed in the box? --Masamage 04:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think that you, Lego, get the argument being put forth. The issue isn't verification, the issue is deeper than that, it's spoilers, the box being crowded, and that the last form isn't named (causing tempation of impulse edits from fans who don't know better) and the second form isn't confirmed 100% for all sailors... This causes lots, and lots of problems. *within* the article space this can be explained, but I don't think it's needed for info boxes. --Hitsuji Kinno 07:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The only titles that should be in the box are Super_ and Eternal Sailor Moon. The rest aren't Really needed. But we can deal with out. Also while i was thinking about it... Shouldn't Chibiusa and Usagi's Super Forms get their own section in the article since they are differnt from previous forms and from the plantary senshi's super forms (and pluto XD)Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I still thinks it presents too much temptation to others who think: "Oh Well, if Super Sailor Moon has her own form, then why can't I list that form for Uranus?" >.<;; Since it's not critical and it causes SPOILERS to be in the info box, mentioning it under the transformed state I think is enough, instead of making a whole new header for it and drawing attention to itself, this way the articles look pretty much the same across the board and doesn't seem like we're trying to make one more special, like say in the Sailor Starlights article where Seiya took up a lot of the page before it was fixed, but still needs some fixing... i.e. I'm worried about fan fights and reversion wars.--Hitsuji Kinno 00:30, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Planetary Symbol
I added the Symbol of all the Senshi (Execpt moon and ChibiMoon) As well as Ceres to their article. Uranus gave me a bit of trouble but i found the right one. If someone could get a version of Mercury's Venus' And Mars' with a heart instead of a Circle (Like they use in the anime) It would be better. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 00:56, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The manga generally used the circle, see here and here (although the heart was used in one panel, I believe). I removed the Ceres symbol, unfourtunately, because it was never used in the anime, the manga or any of the other series'.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 01:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Though they were all slightly different from whats shown (mostly do to the style of lines) It would be great if we could get them in each senshi's Color. As well as a a pink crescent and a yellow crescent (For C-Moon and Moon Respectively) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 05:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC) Yes, that was my home IP adress...


 * Actually... I am already starting that. Of course, I think I'm going to go with a pink heart for Chibi Moon and a silver crescent for Usagi. Just give me a couple of days, please. - Saturn Yoshi  THE VOICES 04:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait! I don't like that idea. >__>;; --Masamage 04:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That's fine. I'll use them for my personal use, but I don't think we should even use a symbol.    - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 06:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh. ^_^;; I don't mind putting the symbols in the articles, really, especially since they appear so often in the series. Might be better place for them in the article, though. Anyway, I just kinda like them black-and-white. Looks professional. --Masamage 07:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe we can put them around the infobox area, like on the planet pages. - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 07:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That being said we still need a cresent with the hallow part faceing up. (Wiki Has cresents but none pointing the right way) and maybe one for the blackmoon Clan as well... And one for Kakyuu.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * An easy fix... Here you go: Image:WhiteMoon.PNG and Image:BlackMoon.PNG .  Enjoy!  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 16:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Because I detest those .svg pics, I went ahead and made my own for the other planets. I'll list them here when I upload them. - Saturn Yoshi  THE VOICES 17:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay... Here they are:
 * Image:MercuryFont.PNG
 * Image:VenusFont.PNG
 * Image:MarsFont.PNG
 * Image:JupiterFont.PNG
 * Image:SaturnFont.PNG
 * Image:UranusFont.PNG
 * Image:NeptuneFont.PNG
 * Image:PlutoFont.PNG

- Saturn Yoshi  THE VOICES 17:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Alright, I went ahead and changed them all. Thumbnails are easier to work with and the pics can be re-sized should it be decided to move them.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 17:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Flip the black moon. The points sould be down.... Bah I did it myself. Here Image:BlackMoon2.PNG Lego3400: The Sage of Time 03:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Yoshi, Since its your image, Could you trim down soom of that exess space on the Black Star? (and make the background transparent but you don't have to do that) I'd do it my self but I'm haveing problems loading image files on my on screen name on my PC and... i'm at School right now! Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:54, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * NVM I got done.... It is legal since its in public domain, isn't it? Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:23, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

SM episode page names
There's been a big debate about how to name episode pages, and the choice is between "episodename (showname)", "episodename (showname episode)" and just "episodename". You can read about it here and here if you want. Anyways, the way the sailor moon episodes are named is not going to fit any of the standard ways. I'd like to bring their article names into line with wikipedia's guidlines. Is this OK? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peregrinefisher (talk • contribs)
 * What exactly is it that you plan to do? We figured that the numbering system was the best, considering that there are multiple translations available of the Japanese episode titles, and that the English dub didn't dub all of the episodes.  We tend to use a | with the link on one side, and the episode title on the other when we're linking it.  I'm not sure what the proper word is for that.  We've got both the dub title and one of the major translations of the Japanese title as redirects.  We've only recently changed the titles at the List of Sailor Moon episodes to fit the official, 'uncut' subtitled version - maybe we should rename the titles to that - but then again, those translations wouldn't be recognised by the majority of English-speakers! - Malkinann 11:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think that user is planning to make any changes, they are just bringing to light the "standard", but as you said, there are many different ways to translate the titles and the way we chose to name them is the closest to "official" as we can get. I would hold off on making any changes, though, until the rest of our group has a say in this.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 12:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well...speaking as the one who first brought to discussion both the number-based naming system and the use of the DVD translations, I think that the latter actually kind of supercedes the former. That is to say, we chose the number system partly because we had no standard, but then we figured out a standard. So if the TV people of Wikipedia have started establishing a set of guidelines, I see no reason not to go along with that, especially with our English titles hammered down.
 * However, there are a lot of other considerations Peregrine may not know about. We're planning to merge all of the English articles into their corresponding original episode articles, and there are hours of cleanup to do. I'm hesitant to dive too deeply into that without a commitment to finish it. --Masamage 22:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think we should just continue on the same path we are on right now, and get our episode pages up to par, first. This "guideline" is currently being disputed, anyway.  Although the talk page for it is filled with little more than what to do about the episodes of Lost.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 02:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That sounds good. Just get ourselves straightened out, let them do the same, and have a big happy combination-of-ways once everything is ready. --Masamage 03:38, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * So, should we stop moving articles just at this minute, expand all the Japanese-language/numbered episodes to the standards of the first episode, merge the english-language episodes (including pictures at this time cos we don't have others), whilst monitoring the discussion on episode title names? In the current moving of articles that's been happening, we may end up losing some of the screenshots as they aren't technically being 'used' any more.  If we divide up the articles into lots of about four or so, and everyone pitches in, we'd have them all covered.  - Malkinann 04:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter which name we choose, but we should decide on one and stick to it, as long as it's the name of the episode and not just its number. The naming controversy is what to add after to the name, but all versions start with the episode name.  It's been acknowledged that people may not know an episode by its name, but it still seams to be the best way to name a page.  We could use the translation of the Japanese name or the english dub name, but WikiProject Anime and manga usually uses the Japanese titles and dates, for whatever reason.  Ultimately, I think we should move and fix the episode pages at the same time. - Peregrinefisher 05:11, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd find moving and fixing the episodes at the same time to be confusing - we may lose some of our images from this most recent spate of moving. We need to sort through the episode images uploaded by User:Kogsquinge to see which we want to keep and which we don't need. Additionally, we still don't have a consensus on what naming system WP:SM is going to use. (I am coming around to using the official subtitled names, though.) Peregrinefisher, as you have more experience with other episode articles, could you please have a look at the "template" Sailor Moon episode - Crybaby Usagi's Magnificent Transformation (currently at Sailor Moon episode 001)  I think it's just about fine - can you please tell us if you think there could or should be anything more, in your opinion? - Malkinann 11:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The template episode looks good. I added external links to the episode's pages at imdb.com and tv.com, which most wikipedia tv episode pages have.  These other sites use "Crybaby Usagi’s Magnificent Transformation" as the name for the episode, and I think it would be a good name for our page as well. - Peregrinefisher 16:11, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Looking at the image Image:Sailor Moon episode 001.jpg used in the first episode, I noticed it didn't have a detailed fair use rational. I added the rational (see changes here).  An issue is that there should be a fair use rational for each page that uses an image, with a link to those pages, and it's hard to add that link without settling on the page name.  Right now it says "Fair use for Sailor Moon episode 001" but that should be changed when we change the page name.  We may want to name the pages, then fix the images, so we don't have to do it twice. - Peregrinefisher 16:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Voice actors
I belive the proper title for a Japanese Voice actor is seiyū. seiyū are like movie stars in japan, do to the fact that Animated Shows are so wide spread. According to the seiyu article Japan makes the most animated programs. (70% to be exact). They also Dub non Japanese language shows. I'm going go change the articles to call seiyū by their proper title. Any one want to help out?Lego3400: The Sage of Time 04:05, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Please don't make changes like this without waiting for discussion. --Masamage 04:20, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I didn't see this discussion. I only linked it for the ease of the casual reader.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 04:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Masamage, We're not supposed to be English language biased or culture biased. being a seiyū is a big thing in japan so its proper to call them by their title. (Besides Kakyuu already had hers listed as a seiyuu (A secondary spelling)) Beides, its only really changeing 5-10 words Article (Section for charcter groups) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 04:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I translated several parts of the seiyū article from the ja wiki and I agree that the seiyū is the best term to use to describe this profession as it exists in Japan. (70% is actually a claim that I pulled from the Korean Wikipedia article, I wasn't able to independently verify it--I should really remove it.)  However, using "seiyū" in all articles is an editorial choice made by some at the Animanga Project and may, possibly, harm an article's chances of GA or FA. I usually use voiced by with a link to the seiyū article, but that's personal choice.  --Kunzite 04:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

This isn't "bias." It's the English-language Wikipedia, and most people who come here don't speak Japanese. If there's an unambiguous English translation, that's what needs to be used. I like Kunzite's solution a lot. --Masamage 05:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Masamage. This is not an English term and shouldn't be used.  Kunzite's compromise seems best. Danny Lilithborne 23:31, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Any disagreement with implementing The Kunzite Method? If it's okay with everyone, I'll go ahead and implement it myself (to make up for being the annoying punk that followed Lego around reverting him ^^;;;) --Masamage 23:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Movies
While we've been working on the character and Episode articles, We've completely ignored the movies! The Anime Manga wikiProject may have ranked them B, the Film Wikiproject Gave R a Start ranking and S, and SuperS stub rankings. They need alot of work! Lego3400: The Sage of Time 03:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Darkpower and his blog

 * A few months back, I had a brief dispute with User:Darkpower over placement of rumors about a Sailor Moon movie starring Lindsey Lohan in the Sailor Moon article. Now, he is getting testy because I removed a mention of his blog from Toei Animation.  He's ranting on my talk page and in his and I would like to get someone else involved because he does not want to listen to me. Danny Lilithborne 23:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. It's vanity spam and doesn't belong. I'll put it on my watch and revert it if s/he does it again. If it becomes habitual we can request page protection or a temp ban. --Kunzite 23:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

To-Do Box
I put a to-do box up at the top (Duh) I figured since Sailor Moon Has one, we should too. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 02:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Arg thats way too much to finish alone... *Has sore fingers and a sore brain from all the work*... When i see it all listed there it seems like so much... Can you guys finish listing the stuff *faints and is laying on the ground with anime-esque swirls in place of his eyes* Lego3400: The Sage of Time 03:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well...nice idea, but this is what the WikiProject itself is for. To my knowledge, all those things are listed on the main project page, and from what I've seen that's where project goals are supposed to go. I think it'll just be too confusing to list our goals in two different places. --Masamage 07:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I know, I know.. But it has some tasks that we don't have on the list on the main page, as no one else really noticed them needing done XDLego3400: The Sage of Time 16:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC) We'll Put all tasks on the front and the high priority ones here or vice versa...
 * I vote move the missing goals to the front page and eliminate the duplicity. --Masamage 16:39, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Template:To do, says "Normally, the "/to do" subpage should only be created under the article's Talk page, unless it is a notice board or project page." In other words, since this is a project, it's not necessary to have it in the talk page. The only reason we'd need it would be to replace the entire "Stuff to work on" section with an enormous to-do box, which seems like a bad idea, mainly for aesthetic reasons. I have gone over your list and merged everything that was missing from the main project page out into it; in a moment, I'll add a note at the "Stuff to work" on section that it can be freely edited by anyone who wants a particular thing worked on. That ought to cover things and get us up to speed. --Masamage 04:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Section stubs
I created a section stub marker useing the info from the page stub (It needs a bit of work to make it act like a sect stub though) (The Templete is shown below) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 04:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC) Sailor-Moon-stub-section

I also made an incomplete list template... But as you can tell this one needs a bit more work.... at its current state its too ugly to put in the articles... Lego3400: The Sage of Time 04:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC) Sailor-Moon-stub-List

lol - I made a stub template once for wikia:sailormoon - I think it was "In the name of the Moon, this stub needs improving!" good work. :) - Malkinann 08:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ack Look See I told you that second one needs some work! Look what happened! --Lego3400: The Sage of Time 19:03, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * And  Denelson83  to the rescue! ~_^ 11:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

PJ Pete
PJ Pete put this on the disscuion page for Usagi. ''For the two Japanese words, "anime(アニメ )" means nothing but "animated cartoon", and "manga(マンガ)" refers to "comics". However, it is ILLEGAL to use the words, "anime" and "manga" outside the Japanese language, and if you're speaking, writing, or typing things in English, you should say "animated cartoon", NOT "anime", and you should say "comics", NOT "manga". --PJ Pete'' (I of course responded he's nuts) He hasn't done anything yet.. but i have a feeling he may try something... Lets keep an eye on him Lego3400: The Sage of Time 19:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That rather startled me, too. I don't anticipate a problem, though. Anything that's verifiably untrue is easy enough to keep out of the 'pedia, and if the "illegal" thing goes too far, there's WP:NLT. Anyway, thanks for the heads-up, 'cause somehow Usagi's article had fallen off my watchlist. ?__? --Masamage 23:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, and "manga" (漫画) is not a foreign word in Japanese. --  Denelson83  21:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Sailor Moon characters
I happened across this orphan article, and I'm not really sure what to do about it - it's obviously a labour of love, but as it stands, it's completely superceded by Black Moon Clan. Some of the information could probably be merged in, especially if we're going to use the Sailor Moon character template for enemies. Could someone with more tact than me please contact the author and invite them to join us? - Malkinann 00:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Plantary Symbol Text
We need a fixed line of text. Rattleman and I have been Having an Revert War on Uranus over whether hers should say Planetary or Astrological.. I Say we use either A: (Sailor) _'s Planetary Symbol or B: Planetary Symbol of (Sailor) _'s. The word sailor can be omitted.. so this is a double vote A or B (Or your own) and do we use the word Sailor? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 02:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC).


 * Maybe we need to explain the fan term "Planetary symbol" at Sailor Senshi, then. - Malkinann 06:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've been using "Planetary symbol of X" because there are two sets of symbols for each planet--astrological and astronomical. For most planets the two are the same, so it's safe to just call it the symbol of that planet. However, in Uranus' case the symbol being used is specifically astrological, and in Pluto's it's specifically astronomical. Those two planets don't have a general planet-symbol at all, so I worded it to state exactly what the symbol was. I've also included a comment-explanation for future editors. --Masamage 06:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Tree cats?
Don't you mean three cats? --  Denelson83  05:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Umm YEahLego3400: The Sage of Time 18:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * What are we talking about? --Masamage 21:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Image gemstone
Should we remove this from the Stats sections? My reasoning, copied from Talk:Ami Mizuno, is that "It has no effect on the characters' Senshi powers, it never comes up in conversation, it's not necessarily a favorite stone, it's usually not their birthstone... It is the same as their Image Color, which we don't mention (with good reason, I think), but even less relevant." Also, it turns out to be sort of hard to cite. Some Senshi get the Materials Collection as a ref, but for others we have to go to places like the Another Story game. --Masamage 18:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Is anyone planning to disagree with this? --Masamage 07:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If no one does, I'm going to remove them this Saturday, January 7th. --Masamage 18:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)