Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Apple Inc./Archive 2

Macintosh categories
User:ChristTrekker is taking it upon himself to recategorize the Macintosh articles into arbitrary categories based on CPU type. I completely disagree with this idea. S/he has nominated Category:PowerBook for deletion, because they feel that splitting this into Category:PowerBook (PPC) and Category:PowerBook (68k) makes the most sense. Why? People who don't know what "PPC" and "68k" are, which is the vast majority of the planet, aren't going to understand this kind of jargon in a category name. Additionally, they're trying to get away with stating that the iMac, eMac, PowerBook etc. are "Power Macintosh" computers. Apple has never marketed these machines as Category:Power Macintosh, and aside from the fact that they contain PowerPC chips. This category should contain articles such as Power Macintosh 7100 and Power Mac G5... you know, articles with "Power Mac" in the name. Oh, and there's Category:Intel Macintosh computers. Say whaaa? Intel doesn't sell Macintosh computers. -/- Warren 22:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Category:PowerBook wasn't nominated for deletion because of the more-specific Category:PowerBook (PPC) and Category:PowerBook (68k), but because of the more-general Category:Macintosh laptops. (Category:PowerBook would exclude x86-based models: the MacBook and MacBook Pro.)  2) Personally, I feel that multiple categorization methods is good.  If you want to look at Macs by product line/family, good.  If you want to look at them by form factor, good.  If you want to look at them by processor, good.  Why can't we support all of them?  I believe the categorization I had put in place addressed all three methods.  If you want to do "Macintosh computers by CPU/form-factor/family" categories at a top level so that readers explicitly see how they're being organized, we can certainly do that.  3) Category:Power Macintosh seemed to encompass all PPC-based Macs, so it seemed a natural fit for use when group by CPU.  If you want to deem that the "product family" category instead of the "processor family" category, I'm can accept that.  I can use Category:PPC Macintosh computers instead. 4) I concur with your comment on my talk page.  Category:x86 Macintosh computers (or similar) would probably be a better name than "Intel". &hArr; ChristTrekker 23:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Warren is right. WAY too many categories, ChristTekker. Please stop! — Wackymacs 23:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how. Warren implies that categories for product line are OK.  Distinguishing laptops from others seems like a no-brainer as well.  So I'm only adding a CPU-type classification, with only three categories.  Three extra somehow puts it over the top?  Three mutually-exclusive systems, most Mac model articles having at most one from each system - that's three categories per model, which is not all that many compared to lots of articles I've seen.  All three systems are based on a salient attribute of the topic - it's not like CPU type is something obscure and irrelevant like "Macs primarily manufactured in Singapore" or something.  &hArr; ChristTrekker 16:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

proposal for discussion
Here is my proposed categorization system, laid out graphically. This is a small departure from what I'd previously set up, in that it's more systematic. It doesn't try to fit product lines into CPU families, even though that's often what Apple did.

To reiterate, an particular model article would be in one subcategory of the each of the bolded categories, e.g. Centris 650 &rArr; 68k, desktop, Centris. The five exceptions I can think of are the main articles for the LC, Performa, PowerBook, Mini, and iMac because those lines spanned CPUs. I don't think this system is needlessly complex, but instead is helpful and informative. Categorizing by meaningful attributes obviously has precedent on Wikipedia, such as People by political orientation and People by nationality. Sometimes you even get those divisions intersecting again, such as American conservatives. This is what influenced the creation of PowerBook (68k) and PowerBook (PPC) - but Warren is probably correct in implying that we don't need to go to that level for the small number of articles each of those categories would have. Still, categorizing on three primary attributes (CPU, shape, line) would be beneficial.

&Dagger; There is no need for mini, eMac, iMac, iBook, MacBook, MacBook Pro, or Mac Pro categories since they would only have one entry under the current precedent. If revisions are ever split out to their own pages (e.g. iMac (G4) and iMac (G5)), a category (iMac) could be created at that point. &hArr; ChristTrekker 23:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * As no one has had any comment for a month, I assume this is satisfactory, so am moving ahead. &hArr; ChristTrekker 18:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Question about joining this project
How would one go about "joining" this project? I have to edit a Wikipedia article as a school project. I have been assigned to edit the stub Macintosh Quadra 900. I would like to also help a bit more with this project when possible. --zlhappyone 22:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You can add you're name to the list, but the project is pretty dead, I'm sorry to say. You'll want to look at the Guide to writing better articles and Simplified Ruleset. Do some research, don't mess with copyright or bias, and cite your sources. Use common sense and you'll get along fine. As for the writing itself, you can try some of the links on this page, but Google's probably a better bet.--HereToHelp 22:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Apple vs Microsoft & Hewlett Packard Confusion
I've run across three mentions of this in different Apple-related articles, and there seems to be two conflicting accounts. Notable litigation of Apple Computer page states that "Apple's claims against Microsoft were dismissed, primarily due to a license John Sculley had negotiated with Bill Gates for Windows 1.0." Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corp. agrees but cites no sources. In the "Beginnings of Microsoft" section on the History of Apple Computer it claims that Apple and Microsoft settled out of court in an agreement that gave Microsoft unlimited use to the Macintosh GUI. I don't know enough about the situation to be able to clear it up one way or the other, but it needs to be cleared up.
 * Both are true. Apple lost in court on the copyright issue, but there were some remaining claims. (Patent I think.) Both companies agreed to cross licensing when Microsoft invested $150m in Apple in 1997. --agr 12:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Stablepedia
Beginning cross-post.
 * See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★ TWO YEARS OF MESSED  ROCKER ★  03:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

''End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.''

MacHeist
The MacHeist article is up for deletion. From the Mac community perspective, what is your advice regarding this? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Rogue Amoeba
The Rogue Amoeba article was recently nominated for deletion due to reading like an advert and not having enough sources. It survived on the condition that it be cleaned up and sourced better. As that article falls under the scope of this project, I thought I'd post a note here for interested editors. Thanks! ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 03:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

MacAddict and Mac|Life
Has anyone given some thought about what to do about MacAddict changing its name to Mac|Life? The way I see it, we could either move the article to MacLife (or some other variation; I suspect going with the magazine's exact title Mac|Life might cause issues since MediaWiki considers the pipe a special character) and keep it about both, or have a separate article for the new magazine. If it helps in considering the issue, the February 2007 issue of Mac|Life is numbered as Issue #1. I've put a requested move template on the Talk:MacAddict page. -- Hawaiian717 07:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe MaclLife? That's a lower case "L", by the way.--HereToHelp 17:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And lowercase won't even work (un-subst-ed, anyway), because it gives The correct title of this Life is Mac.--HereToHelp 17:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be MaclLife. I have the magazine in front of me and they're definitely using the pipe character, not a lower case "L", when they refer to the magazine's name. You're seeing the problem with calling it Mac|Life, thus why I suggested using MacLife. -- Hawaiian717 18:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Can we use Template:Pipe in title? &hArr; ChristTrekker 16:33, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: Logo change
I would like to propose that we change the logo of the Wikiproject. Currently, we use the 128k, which, at least to me, is unattractive and does not reflect the current style of Apple products. I propose that we change the logo to Image:Crystal Clear app mymac.png. I realize that this represents an iMac G4, and not the current generation of products, but I feel that it better reflects the modern Macintosh. Any comments? &mdash; W. Flake ( talk ) 22:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that would be fine. IIRC, the previous logo was chosen because of the license terms of the alternative choices. &hArr; ChristTrekker 16:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * So if nobody objects, why don't I go ahead and do that then?.
 * Hmm, it was done already but the project page still shows the template with the old logo....
 * Done vlad§inger  tlk  21:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Mac-stub recatting
I see that Mac-stub now feeds into, which is a bit confusing as it's left a mostly-empty category, a mismatch between the template name and the category, the Mac software type "parentless", and me scratching my head. (It's best to go via WP:SFD for stub type renamings and deletions.) So what's the plan:  does WPJ want a "Mac" type, an "Apple" type, or one of each? Alai 07:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm betting someone goofed during the Computer→Inc. mass-renaming. It appears to have been rectified, though. &hArr; ChristTrekker 22:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Considering a PROD for Overture (notation software)
I am considering a proposed article for deletion tag for Overture (notation software). How popular is this MIDI software among the Mac community? Please let me know. Guroadrunner 05:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The article needs a little cleaning up, every section is deemed to be a stub rather than the entire article. But it does have some useful info. Why does it bother you so? Is it part of what Wikipedia isnt? Connectionfailure 13:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * When I Googled this software, I couldn't establish notability for Wikipedia. But, I don't know if it is popular in the Mac community (I'm on a PC) so I did not want to make a rash judgement on it. Guroadrunner 20:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Mac Color Classic image
I tried to fix Macintosh Color Classic so it shows the image Macintosh_Color_Classic.jpg‎ in the table. The image name had been spelled with spaces instead of underscores, but even with the image name spelled correctly it still doesn't work. What gives? --Eloil 13:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The image appears to work correctly in my browser. Have you tried resetting your browser's cache?  It might have an outdated version already stored.  &mdash; W. Flake  ( talk ) 16:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Control Panels (up to Mac OS 9)
Zillions of Control Panels having been released by third-party companies during the years of pre-OS X Macintosh, and I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to make - be it just very simple - a list of all the control panels that could be dug up and say what their use was, who were the developpers, and which system(s) it ran on. This way, a developper who is looking for fresh new ideas could come look at the list and propose the original developpers to transport these CP into today's OSes, Vista, OS X v.5, etc. It would also allow users who are looking for a transport of their once-beloved CPs to find it easily. Then maybe a page named "Third-Party Control Panels (Macintosh)" would need to be created. So far I couldn't find anything better than the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS_APIs which is really miserable is that's all there is. (I am rating the OS X operating system below the previous ones and up to OS 9) Beforedecay 18:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The only problem is most of the control panels would probably fail the notability guidelines for software. However, if you think that they can, it might potentially useful.  &mdash; W. Flake  ( talk ) 23:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Computer specs
I think that the community should standardize which specs an article displays on a table, along with a picture (for example, the Apple I). My personal opinion is to have these specs: That's what I can come up with from the top of my head. I leave this to the community. Sr13 (T|C) 08:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Manufacturer
 * Type of media (personal computer, portable media player...etc.)
 * Production date and discontinuation date
 * Price
 * CPU
 * RAM
 * OS
 * Casing?
 * Preceeding and succeeding version
 * I'd developed something just like this for the MLAgazine wiki before that recently disappeared. Is there an existing template for computers that could be used? &hArr; ChristTrekker 15:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Percent completed section
I left last August, and the percentages in the are still the same as they were then. Shouldn't they have been updated since then? Macintosh User 22:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

IP Participant
I've noticed that an IP has placed themselves on the associates list. --Canadianshoper 02:06, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Technical
Just to be technical, and not that it's of huge importance, but Apple Computer is no longer: it's Apple Inc. It'd be a fair idea to edit the template boxes to reflect the name change.Nja247 (talk • contribs) 11:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Request for more opinions
Could people from the Macintosh wikiproject please take a look at the criticism section in the Apple article and the corresponding discussion? More voices need to be heard and an agreement needs to be reached. It's currently verging on an edit war. Cheers! -steventity 20:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Deletion nomination
Articles for deletion/Welcome to Mac OS window ( [ →]O - RLY?) 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Icon upload
WikiProject Macintosh/How to upload icons needs to be updated or clarified or deleted or something. (I'm just trying to clean up the Icons page) --Quiddity 18:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

No Music in 80s-era Macintoshes?
I was hoping to find what kind of music the 80s-era Mac II could create, but it does not list a sound chip. Does it not include a sound chip? - Theaveng 11:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

iMac timeline
Hello, just want to get some other people's opinions regarding the iMac timeline. I and User:Kaomso (I think IP 74.141.168.211 is also Kaomso) have been pretty much going back and forth on how the timeline should be. It's currently in the form he thinks is appropriate, going back one edit is how I think it should be. The main difference is he thinks that the names on the timeline should be G3, Ge (slot-loading), G4, G5, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, C2D, and C2D/E, while I think G3, G3 (slot-loading), G4, G5, Core, Core 2, and Core 2 (Al) are more appropriate. He thinks his is more consistent and less confusing, I think mine is more consistent and less confusing. The talk page has both of our arguments, too. Any opinions? Please? Having an outside consensus would be nice. Butterfly0fdoom 09:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello? Could someone please provide input on this matter? Kamoso's pretty much not open to any discussion on the matter, and I think we've reached the point where we NEED other people to give their input on this. Butterfly0fdoom (talk) 02:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Steve Jobs
Template:Steve Jobs has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. szyslak 07:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

FAR for Macintosh
Macintosh has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Kaypoh 15:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Dead external links
My tool detected 36 dead link across 63 pages in Category:High-importance Macintosh articles with another 101 that should be examined. Any feedback on the interface would be welcomed. —Dispenser (talk) 06:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Added:Mac-software-stub
I thought you'd like to know that as a member of WP:Stub Sorting I have added Mac-software-stub to the Stub Sorting List and your Templates section. Kathleen.wright5 03:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Help
Could you guys help me clean this article up? Thanks.  K im  u  18:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Iphone development
Hey does the Iphone fall under the purview of this project? Mathiastck (talk) 17:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Replace
Wackymacs has made a proposal to delete the and replace it with the  across all Macintosh model pages. In fact he has already secured a FA rating on Macintosh Classic and is close to achieving that status with PowerBook 100, both of which he has reverted to the use of. Here is the relevant excahnge: QUESTION: User talk:Wackymacs and RESPONSE: User talk:Mac128. Unless there is dissent, the recommended template form will be replaced on the WikiProject Macintosh page with the and they will be replaced throughout the Macintosh hardware articles.--Mac128 (talk) 16:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject:Software
I think most people want to stay independent--if renamed, see below--but we look forward to working with you in the future.--HereToHelp (talk to me) 01:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Project rename to WikiProject Apple
Propose to rename WikiProject Apple.

This project has tagged all the iPod, iTunes and iPhone related material, which aren't exactly related to the Macintosh, though they still fall into the Apple aura. WikiProject Apple would be better, with Macintosh being one of its subprojects. It would be a better use of resources for the project as a whole. -- KelleyCook (talk) 21:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Rename it to WikiProject Apple, or make it clear that it only applies to Macintoshes and create another WikiProject for everything-else-Apple (which would be more cumbersome). JCDenton2052 (talk) 21:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree as well, if you can get get it off the ground. Quite frankly, there's a lot of cumbersome bureaucracy that needs to be weeded out while introducing Apple-specific guidelines. I'm working on a draft.--HereToHelp (talk to me) 01:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  20:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

A discussion
An important discussion on " Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ?  " is open here . We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. --  TinuCherian  (Wanna Talk?) -, member of WikiProject Council. 15:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 607 articles are assigned to this project, of which 156, or 25.7%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-07-14.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:



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Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Macintosh
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have nominated Macintosh 128k and HereToHelp (talk to me) 00:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Macintosh reference software
Comparison of reference management software does not yet list Bookends, and several popular free alternatives (iPapers, Cloister, ...) that may be notable are also so far missing from the list. I'm not too familiar with any of these, but thought it should be flagged up so we can give appropriate weight to the Mac platform. Bookends definitely should have a place in the list though - it's ancient and has a considerable userbase. Also note that Papers (software) and Sente (software) have articles, but I couldn't find one for Bookends. Some other wikis cover it already  87.165.204.163 (talk) 13:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

GA Sweeps Reassessment of Mac OS X
Mac OS X has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Articles are typically reviewed for one week. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

GA assessment for MacBook
I'm reviewing MacBook at Talk:MacBook/GA2. Can someone drop by to see if there's anything that looks out of place in the article? Thanks. - Dan Dank55 (send/receive) 14:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Article alerts
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Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

List of Macintosh software
I've started a discussion at that page as to whether is should be moved to List of Mac OS X software. I'd appreciate the input. -Halo (talk) 18:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

MacBook A-Class.
MacBook has been nominated for A-Class. Please comment at the talk page. -- Sk8er5000 (talk) 05:12, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/List of fonts in Mac OS X
FYI. Ikip (talk) 07:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Editing Wikipedia with Safari
I realize this probably isn't exactly the right forum for this, but I figured the editors involved here would be the best versed in what I'm asking.

Before switching to my MacBook Pro, I previously edited Wikipedia with Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome. Both browsers rendered my editing window in a mono-spaced font that made all characters the same width and made template spacing (and more) easier to manage. I elect to use Safari on my MacBook (although I have installed Firefox and find it to function identically to its Windows counterpart), and I find it doesn't render the editing window like those other browsers at all. The spacing is affected by the letters as (I think) it's not using a monospaced font.

Does anybody take issue with this similarly? Am I just not getting something? Anybody have any help? —  pd_THOR  undefined | 04:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * No, you're not hallucinating, Safari does not used a monospaced font for editting. I don't know if there is any way to change how a browser renders the edit window, but Safari and FF treat it differently. You might be able to Google an add-on, but otherwise, you're going to have to deal with it.--HereToHelp (talk to me) 13:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Buh, that's really frustrating. I like many aspects of Safari over Firefox, and I never really used any add-ons for the latter anyways.  But I really miss my mono-spaced editing window.  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 17:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject iPhone OS
I just wanted to let everyone out there in the Macintosh WikiProject know that there are two of us who have started WikiProject iPhone OS. It still needs a lot of work getting off the ground, but we welcome anyone who would be interested in collaborating. Thanks. Brianreading (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This should really be a task force rather than a full-fledged Wikiproject. ViperSnake151 Talk  19:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess It would be more appropriate as a task force in an Apple WikiProject, rather than a Macintosh one, seeing as how it's not a Macintosh, and much broader than a Macintosh accessory. Brianreading (talk) 09:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Completely agree and you must take into account that our scope covers all applications on the iPhone and bearing in mind new ones are released every day we will be always active. So if you own an iPhone or ipod touch please sign up! I Smashed   TALK!  10:27, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps this particular (Macintosh) project needs renamed?
(outdent)Okay, but in my experience I've found that planning is extremely important. My ideas, presented for the community to rip to shreds, are as follows. The goal of WikiProject Apple Inc. is to facilitate and focus improvements to articles related to Apple Inc. At least three task forces--Mac, iPod, and iPhone--should be created, with the understanding that the boundaries can be blurry (such as iTunes and iPod Touch). Each task force should create a short list of goals (promote specific articles to specific assessment statuses, FA GA etc.) and one focus that they are currently working on to meet one of those goals. We can have general roster of involved users, but they should commit to the WikiProject, not a specific task force. Some pages (Apple Inc., Portal:Apple Inc.) will not fall under any of those three task forces. We can have a General task force, or just an unassigned group; I don't care. Other than listing goals, focuses and members, the project page should outline good practices, what qualifies as a reliable source, and procedures for controlling unsubstantiated rumors and product updates. (There are always anons posting before apple.com declares it official.) Anything else?--HereToHelp (talk to me) 20:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Has anyone considered renaming this project "WikiProject Apple Inc.", as it seems your scope has expanded thusly anyways? (The goal of this Project is to improve every Apple- and Macintosh-related article to featured article status.). This would make taskforcifying the WikiProject iPhone OS a much more logical step. –xeno talk 14:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not so sure about everything being featured, but WikiProject Apple Inc., right?--HereToHelp (talk to me) 21:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes... That way it could encompass the iPhone, iPhone OS, iPods, etc. Not just "Macintosh". –xeno talk 21:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So...is anyone going to go create it?--HereToHelp (talk to me) 20:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll help but if someone experienced could make it it would be good. I Smashed   TALK!  16:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good but should be iPhone Os taskforce as this include the touch . The iphone and touch are very similar.  I Smashed   TALK!  15:15, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that the iPod touch should be covered (at least in part) by the iPhone (OS) taskforce. I'm afraid that including OS in the name will imply a disinterest in hardware, but we seem to be in agreement in all but the name, which is really the least of our concerns--HereToHelp (talk to me) 16:58, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * While I have previously endorsed the "iPhone OS" name, I see your concerns with that. Maybe we COULD call it simply the iPhone taskforce, and explain the scope (iPod Touch, and OS technology) on the taskforce's page? Are we in agreement with this? ismashed? Anyone else? Brianreading (talk) 03:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Apple, and many third parties, refer to "iPhone apps" only to belatedly (if ever) add that they also work on the iPod touch, hardware permitting. Maybe it's a marketing ploy ("pay no attention to the cheaper product!"). But yes, we can explain that the iPod touch falls under both task forces. It has multitouch like an iPhone, but focuses more on media, like an iPod. Both devices sync to iTunes, which runs on a Mac (or PC--which puts iTunes under the jurisdiction of multiple WikiProjects, much less task forces!) The point is not to divide our attention but to focus it. It doesn't matter what we call the task forces, but how they are used. When the bureacracy doesn't work, ignore it.--HereToHelp (talk to me) 13:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it's up. Have at it.--HereToHelp (talk to me) 22:48, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I thought the plan was to rename this project. This seems like  the best way to go about doing things, as the project is already well established.  I don't know how to go about doing it though.  Anyone have any ideas? Brianreading (talk) 18:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, kind of. The other part was to include the iPhone, and iPod, all under one roof. And why not streamline things in the process? Please, take a look at, and improve, WikiProject Apple Inc..--HereToHelp (talk to me) 20:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Portal:Apple Inc. not maintaned
I have noticed Portal:Apple Inc. has not been touched since January 2008. I will once I make this post update it. Furthermore, if no-one objects, I will assume the maintainer responsibilitys (I think such a role exsists). Thanks -- Sk8er5000 (talk) 07:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Timeline of Macintosh models
nominated Timeline of Macintosh models for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:56, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

New images for Apple-related article
Hi guys, a little italian museum has just released all the pictures on allaboutapple.com under cc-by-sa 2.5, they also will provide us on demand photos of their objects, please write on my italian talkpage if you're intrested in using these pictures (I'm gonna creating a template on commons for these images). --Vituzzu (talk) 23:17, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:33, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Signpost Article
Would you be interested in providing an interview for a Signpost article? If so, please contact me on my talk page.-- iBen 01:49, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid the project is pretty inactive, although if a few other people are interested, I'll respond too. Just not in the next few days.HereToHelp (talk to me) 03:14, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Macintosh/Deletion
I think ArticleAlertBot takes care of this now. It's hardly ever updated, and I'm going to request deletion in one week unless someone gives a reason to keep it. Thanks, Airplaneman  talk 22:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ &mdash; deleted. Airplaneman  talk 04:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Any help appreciated
I saw the note in the Signpost and so was directed here. I'm not really sure what I can do to help with most articles beyond basic cleanup and reorganization, but I am working on Pathways Into Darkness, a Mac-only game that was essentially the Wolfenstein 3D of the Mac market with cutting-edge texture mapped graphics and stereo sound. It's coming along nicely, but what it really lacks is reception; not surprisingly finding info on a relatively minor Mac game from 1992 is tough. If anyone has magazine reviews or similar from the time, that would be immensely helpful. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 23:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

FAR
nominated Macintosh for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 22:26, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

merger
Personally, I think it would make more sense to merge the iBookstore article with the iBooks page. it would make more sense. Since nobody has updated the iBooks page since January, I have taken it upon myself to update it daily. I think that the iBookstore page would make both together seem larger and more important. Thanks Mickeys1fan (talk) 19:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * They both have potential for expansion - just look at iTunes and iTunes store. One's an application, one's an online store. Just give them a bit of time. Airplaneman   ✈  19:28, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Airplaneman. Both articles could easily be expanded. ~ N ERDY S CIENCE D UDE  (✉ message • changes) 19:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm with Mickeys1fan. The analogy doesn't hold up, because iTunes handles many different types of media, and does not require that media to be from the store. If we need to split them later, we can. In the mean time, these articles are a mess, and will benefit from merger. (And sources and copyediting...) There's too much work to be done to worry about expanding them; it's too early. We should focus our efforts elsewhere, like Macintosh (up for FAR). HereToHelp (talk to me) 19:49, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Update template
Template:Timeline of MacBook family models needs updating to match the new MBP releases - I would do it myself, but am confused by the coding going on in the edit box. Thanks, Airplaneman   ✈  00:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Subject lists
Game topics - 0% done

Biography topics - 0% done

Hardware topics - 1.12% done

Software topics - 0% done

Business topics - 0% done

I don't think these are necessary; I think the article quality table better serve the purpose. Any input? Airplaneman  ✈  02:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, get rid of them. I think we should make instead a list of articles that should be featured, and another of should be GA, based on importance. So, should be FAs can be things like Macintosh (FA undergoing FAR), iPod, iPhone, Apple Inc., Mac OS X, and iTunes. As a preliminary suggestion. HereToHelp (talk to me) 02:37, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Being bold and nominating for MFD. Airplaneman   ✈  01:41, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S They would be a pain to update as well. Categories are way easier. Airplaneman   ✈  01:44, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd G6em as we seem to have consensus that they need to go.-- m o ɳ o 01:54, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Page design
I know there's a lot of cleanup of old text and templates to go through if we're really going to relaunch this (which would be great), but I don't like the purple and green border, or the purple banner, as subjective personal tastes. I think we should try to be more, you know, Apple-y. If you all agree, I can give it a shot myself in the next few days. HereToHelp (talk to me) 02:39, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't really even need the borders, honestly. A straightforward page design is always better. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 02:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then, removing :). Airplaneman   ✈  20:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, new banner is up, with another version for WP:IPHONEOS. HereToHelp (talk to me) 22:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Love it! Flows more with the page, IMHO. Airplaneman   ✈  22:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion to rename project
✅. Consensus in its favor was established within a reasonable period of time.

If the project is going to handle Apple Inc. items, I suggest that it change from "WikiProject Macintosh" to "WikiProject Apple (Inc.)" (with or without the Incorporated). Macintosh is the trademark specific to the Macintosh computers, and certainly not to the Apple or the iXXX line of products. This is akin to stating "WikiProject Relativity" is handling every Physics topic. Jappalang (talk) 14:38, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * While I'm not a member, I think this is entirely sensible. See also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Macintosh/Archive 2. – xeno talk 14:39, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It makes sense. It's certainly a larger and distinct scope, but looking at how things are tagged anyhow it's not that much of a change. Just change it to straight Apple, "Inc" is a tad annoying :) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 15:12, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It would also pave the way for "WikiProject iPhone OS" to be accommodated as a task force. – xeno talk 15:13, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems like a good idea, as this project already covers many other Apple products.  • ɔ   ʃ   →  15:27, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know; for technical purposes it would be good. I just think the name sounds clunky:  Apple Inc.  How about we drop the inc. part and make it WikiProject Apple?  Or, keep it the same...-- m o n o  00:36, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * To make myself clearer, I say rename to WikiProject Apple.-- m o n o 05:08, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said earlier, "with or without the Incorporated"; it matters not to me if this project is "WP Apple" or "WP Apple Inc", as long as it does not make someone ponder why Macintosh is "in charge of" Apple on first impression (instead of the other way around). Of course, perhaps it might then disturb those who want to set up a project to focus on the fruit instead (heh).  Jappalang (talk) 06:52, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * My comments in the above-linked archive suggest WikiProject Apple Inc., but "WikiProject Apple" would work just as well. It's doubtful a whole WikiProject over the fruit would emerge to lay claim to that name =) – xeno talk 18:23, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Uber-strong Support - had been pondering this myself. I like the name WikiProject Apple the best. And I also like the idea of IPHONEOS as a task force. Airplaneman   ✈  04:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Stong Support - If we are dealing with Apple Inc. related articles, then we are better off renaming the project WikiProject Apple as stated above.  Dwayne   was here!  ♫  05:08, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Support with the caveat that WikiProject Apple could be too loose as it might imply a WikiProject about apples or (more likely yet) one about Apple Corps or a host of other things found on Apple (disambiguation). I would therefore use the least ambiguous term possible, viz WikiProject Apple Inc. (no brackets, note, as the company does not use them in its name) --Jubilee♫ clipman  22:37, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Support - Call it WikiProject Apple Inc. for disambiguation purposes. And keep in mind there was an attempt to create a project with several task forces, but it failed. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ message • changes) 23:10, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, who'd have credited it? I almost wikilinked my suggestion: if I had I would have ended up over at WikiProject Apple Inc.  Basically, then, all you need to do is make this WikiProject a daughter of that WikiProject, move all the non-Macintosh-related stuff over there and reactivate that project.  Easy........  --Jubilee♫ clipman  23:23, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, since that project is historical and this one is functioning, how about we move WikiProject Apple Inc. to WikiProject Apple Inc. (historical) and move this project to WikiProject Apple Inc. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ message • changes) 23:26, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Moving to WikiProject Apple Inc./historical Airplaneman   ✈  01:04, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Let's clear this up. I think we have consensus for a name change; now let's discuss WikiProject Apple vs. WikiProject Apple Inc. Cheers,  m o ɳ o  23:46, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * How about "WikiProject Apple Computer"? The wikiproject already covers such things as the Apple II, Apple III, Apple Lisa, etc. Using Computer makes much more sense to me as this disambiguates yet avoids the use of Inc., which as I recall is frowned upon in the MOS anyway. --Tothwolf (talk) 04:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Supports for WikiProject Apple
 * 1) m o ɳ o  23:52, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:46, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Supports for WikiProject Apple Inc.
 * 1) ~ Nerdy Science Dude   (✉ message • changes) 23:51, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) You really do need to avoid conflict with any potential WikiProject Apple Corps or WikiProject Apple Records.  Avoid the whole Apple Corps v Apple Computer thing altogether, I say.  Anyway, you already have WikiProject Apple Inc. which just needs to be reactivated and the goals more clearly defined.  The WikiProject here is more than capable of doing that, as far as I can tell.  There is no reason to kill off WikiProject Macintosh either, IMO, if it can be focused entirely on Macintosh computers and other products using that trademark  --Jubilee♫ clipman  00:11, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * How about Macintosh task force? ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ message • changes) 00:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Good idea, NSD. iPhone, Corporate, Hardware, and Software would be good categories.  (not that I support WikiProject Apple Inc.)-- m o ɳ o  00:23, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:IPHONE OS is its own project, which would presumably be apporpriated as a daughter. I'll leave a not on their talk page if there isn't one yet. HereToHelp (talk to me) 00:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes: a Macintosh taskforce would work just as well --Jubilee♫ clipman  00:46, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Support I've tried it a few times before but it never really took off. This is the most activity I've seen here for some time.... HereToHelp (talk to me) 00:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, the revival went well. There's a note already; I'm confused whether you support the task forces, WikiProject Apple Inc. rename, or WikiProject Apple rename.  Please clarify?-- m o ɳ o  00:34, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think task forces will evolve as necessary; whats important is to funnel this activity into improving articles. While Apple Inc. sounds clunky, part of me feels that it's necessary to differentiate us from apple the fruit or record label. (Although another part of me thinks that the use of Inc. is so rare it would cause more confusion that the omission.) So I'm not sure, but at the moment I say include Inc.. HereToHelp (talk to me) 00:52, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Voting for Apple Inc. Also the Macintosh task force (to be situated at WikiProject Apple Inc./Macintosh task force and iPhone OS task force (to be situated at WikiProject Apple Inc./iPhone OS task force. Airplaneman   ✈  01:04, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) A bump in the right direction. Pcap ping  01:10, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) I changed my mind, instead of going for WikiProject Apple i think it should be WikiProject Apple Inc. i changed my mind because as stated above people may get in confusion with the apple fruit, when were rather trying to relate to the company Apple Inc.  Dwayne   was here!  ♫  01:47, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Support - Apple Inc. is the name of the corporation, and avoids confusion with Apple Corps and the fruit. I also agree making WP:IPHONE OS a subproject is something to consider. PaleAqua (talk) 03:05, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Also note that the portal here and at wikinews both use "Apple Inc.", so it seems like it would be good for consistency as well as matching the name of the main article on Apple Inc. PaleAqua (talk) 06:39, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Support Only apple does classify it as a company --Extra 999 (Contact me  +  contribs) 03:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Next steps
Clear consensus has been reached to rename the project WikiProject Apple Inc. May a project admin delete WikiProject Apple Inc. (now at WikiProject Apple Inc./historical) to make space to move this current project and all of its subpages to the new name?

Also discussed was the possibility of one or two task forces, the Macintosh task force and the iPhone OS task force (currently WP:IPHONEOS). My take on it is to focus on moving the main project before worrying about task forces. Airplaneman  ✈  23:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As I pointed out above, I'm not really sure the "Inc." suffix is really the way to go about disambiguation as the MOS discourages using a company's legal status when naming pages. On the other hand, a benefit of using "Inc." is that it would be possible to create an "Apple Computer" taskforce specifically for articles about older hardware. --Tothwolf (talk) 23:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I think our project page needs some cleanup, and that it could benefit from the content at the historical page. I also think that the goals, namely promoting about a dozen specific articles to featured status, are lofty but achievable. (Full disclosure: I haven't checked the history but I'm pretty sure I wrote that page.) My ultimate goal is to get through this necessary bureaucracy as soon as possible and get people to start working on articles. HereToHelp (talk to me) 23:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that we ought to wrap up this policy-making and actually do some work.-- m o ɳ o 00:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Before someone decides to delist Macintosh. HereToHelp (talk to me) 00:47, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, you did write the historical page :). Any news on how to reference computer specs yet for Macintosh? Haven't seen it on my watchlist lately. I'll see what I can do to clean up the project page. Airplaneman   ✈  00:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to reply to Tothwolf re WP:NCCORP: "The legal status suffix of a company (such as Inc., [etc]) is not normally included in the article title". First, those rules do not apply to WikiProject names; second, Apple Inc. is so called precisely because there is no other logical choice; third, the guideline goes on to say "When disambiguation is needed, the legal status, an appended "(company)", or other suffix can be used to disambiguate".  Hope that helps remove some nagging doubts about this move now that it has been done  --Jubilee♫ clipman  01:12, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that Apple Inc. is superior to Apple (company). And per above, while those rules don't apply to WikiProjects the same need for clarify is addressed by Inc.. A good application of WP:IAR. HereToHelp (talk to me) 01:49, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Apple Campus
I made the Apple Campus article as requested. But what i did was translate the one from the SP Wikipedia to English. I hope it was okay, i just wanted to help out. Dwayne  was here! ♫ 01:45, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! Copyedit now needed. Airplaneman   ✈  04:33, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ by Dwayne. Airplaneman   ✈  05:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added a few references just so it had some, looks like there are a bunch more on the Spanish version of the page that could be brought over. PaleAqua (talk) 03:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

OpenGL Profiler was made as requested
I made the article OpenGL Profiler as requested however, its in needing of expansion. Dwayne  was here! ♫ 18:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note there is mention of the OpenGL Profiler at Apple Developer Tools. Would it not make more sense to redirect there and expand that section first? Not sure it's notable enough for it's own article. PaleAqua (talk) 04:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, im working on it. I have also placed that article under the to-do list, under articles needing expansion.  Dwayne   was here!  ♫  03:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Open AfDs
PearC and Mac OS memory management. Pcap ping  01:12, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Both closed as keep by NSD. Airplaneman   ✈  01:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

MacTheRipper is at AfD. Airplaneman  ✈  03:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Subjectivity of "Importance" Assessments
In the project template WikiProject Macintosh, placed on the talk pages of all associated articles, there are several different ways to tag an article. The most important, the assessment of the article's quality has set guidelines for assessment, determined by community consensus. The other main rating is the importance rating: used to judge the importance of the article [to the project]. The only problem is that this rating is quite subjective and not varied enough. For example, there are many articles within our project that are only the slightest bit related to Apple Inc. Therefore, I propose two options:
 * 1) Eradicating the assesment of importance altogether.
 * 2) Initiating clear guidelines for the importance and adapting the importance assessment scheme to create more detailed levels like N/A, related, low, mid, high, top, and core. What does the project think?-- m o ɳ o  18:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Those that are only the slightest bit related to Apple Inc. should either be tagged as "low" or the banner should be removed. – xeno talk 19:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

And I've created new Apple Inc. Categories, but they aren't showing up here (it's been a while). Why are they staying at the old place?
 * We have been using the importance assessment scheme all along... right? If not, yes, adopt it! Removing it won't help - the importance rating gives an idea to the project on how, well, important it is. Also, top importance is the same as core (there are no "core-importance" articles). Airplaneman   ✈  22:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Importance should be correlated to desired quality level, or perhaps vice versa. A top article should be featured (Macintosh), a high article should be good (iMac), mid should be B (History of Mac OS), and low is of least concern. I think that these templates are somewhat overused; i.e. Myst was later ported to iPhone, which received a paragraph in the article, and WP:IPHONE OS claimed it. HereToHelp (talk to me) 22:24, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As were all games available on Mac OS /X (mentioned above). – xeno talk 22:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't think those should count. HereToHelp (talk to me) 22:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If you guys come to a consensus on that, I can have Xenobot prime run over the articles to detag. – xeno talk 22:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Myst was a killer app for Macs and PCs, so it would be rather important (and certainly under the scope of this project.) Not all games should be, though, and I would say most would be of low importance. Top and high importance should be for flagship products, first-party material... we can hash it out with actual examples. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 22:47, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with the de-taggin and Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs' comment above. If xenobot does a rerun, may he/she/it change all and  tags to ? Further categorizing NA class articles (into Template, Category, Project classes, etc.) would also be beneficial.  Airplaneman   ✈  23:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, any leftover "Macintosh" categories that need conversion to "Apple Inc." should be renamed, as well. Airplaneman  ✈  23:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm fixing the template.-- m o ɳ o 23:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Btw, I agree with the de-tagging of the categories; WP:AVIATION does not assess importance either.-- m o ɳ o 23:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 2x Edit conflict with Mono Maybe replacing undefined with undefined will fix the issue. Never mind since Mono has a fix.  Maybe we should have a bot auto-assess unassessed articles with assessments from other wikiprojects since there is a huge backlog of over 1000 articles in need of assessment. ~ Nerdy Science Dude   (✉ message • changes) 23:49, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Progression of fix:,  m o ɳ o  23:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The articles will switch over in due time; they're waiting in the job queue. You have just over 700 unassessed articles...The bot has already run its standard battery of auto-assessment routines. You could opt to auto-status as "class=stub, auto=length" anything that is below X (X is usually set to 2500 bytes). Note you can also try something like what Indiana did, and auto-set importance by a key. As far as importance, I'm of the mind that it is useful, especially for projects with task forces (they can set their own, etc.). – xeno talk  00:59, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the update. I really don't understand much of that technical backend :P Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 20:40, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

OpenGL Driver Monitor was made as requested.
Hello, i made the article OpenGL Driver Monitor as requested :)   Dwayne   was here!  ♫  03:08, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 Bot
I've initiated a discussion here about article tracking and assessments by the WP 1.0 team. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Airplaneman   ✈  01:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Airplaneman   ✈  16:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Listen up! You! Yes, YOU!
I am thrilled that we've had a successful revival and move. The next step is to funnel this enthusiasm into making improvements to encyclopedia (you know, the thing non-editors read). Macintosh, one of our flagship articles and few featured articles, is up for delisting. We need to concentrate our efforts on defending improving the article so it is not delisted, because it will be much harder to get it re-listed. The issues raised mostly involve citations; please help address these concerns. Let's do it. HereToHelp (talk to me) 15:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I can hear the helicopters and the mad Scottish teacher shouting "Stand still LADDY!!"...   I'll probably join this project, actually, and do what I can to help.  Probably copy-editing and sourcing rather than content (which are exactly was FA's need, of course).  "When... When... When we grew up and went to school..."  --Jubilee♫ clipman  16:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Although I'd be glad to help and have done a bit already, I'm really not sure what the reviewers want. Therefore, I am confused about what to change and what to keep. Airplaneman   ✈  20:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That's the primary problem, yes. Go through, add sources as requested, bend over backwards for each reviewer who wants something different.....HereToHelp (talk to me) 23:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't get it: the FAR has been archived. Does that mean it is no longer up for review (i.e. it passed) or that the review has been archived too soon, or started as an archive for some strange reason, or what?  Never been involved in FAR, BTW, so I don't know the normal procedure but this seems a bit odd...  --Jubilee♫ clipman  23:51, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The page being in an archive also seems a bit strange to me. Is that the page we should be looking at or is there something newer? I saw the original comments about needing input but was a bit at a lost of where exactly, and had assumed that it was over or something because of it being an archive. But I'm now thinking that is not the case. PaleAqua (talk) 00:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The /archive 2 part just means it's been nominated before. To avoid confusion (apparently it didn't work), discussions take place on the archive pages from the beginning. The archive term is historical. The nom is still open until it gets surrounded by a blue or purple box (see first nom). HereToHelp (talk to me) 01:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Who's totally bonkers idea was that?! "Archive" mean "look but don't change" in my language...  That really need to be reviewed urgently: too many editors are going to think the discussion is over before it even began!  I did; PaleAqua seems to have done so, also  --Jubilee♫ clipman  01:48, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

That's the system, and FAR/FARC regulars are familiar with it. Please, do touch, edit the article and nomination page. HereToHelp (talk to me) 02:14, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * But FAR newbies are bemused by it... and even, just possibly, are put off actually editing the discussion page because it is marked as an "archive". I asked over at WT:FAR anyway  --Jubilee♫ clipman  02:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

MacBook Peer Review
MacBook is currently nominated for a peer review, which can be found here. Airplaneman  ✈  23:00, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Great.-- m o ɳ o 23:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup ! :P   Dwayne   was here!  ♫  00:59, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Task forces
In the discussion about this project's rename, task forces were discussed. Mono has moved the iPhone OS project to WikiProject Apple Inc./iPhone OS Task Force, effectively creating our iPhone task force. A hardware task force and software task force have both been proposed as well. If created, the redirect WP:MAC, WP:WPMAC, and WP:MACINTOSH should also be repurposed to serve as shortcuts to that task force. Now we need to decide on names for the task forces. I have a couple suggestions; feel free to add you own:

Names for Mac task force

 * WikiProject Apple Inc./Macintosh task force
 * 1) Support this name. Airplaneman   ✈  20:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Support --Jubilee♫ clipman 23:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Support ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 23:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Names for iPhone task force
✅-- m o ɳ o 00:12, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Apple Inc./iPhone OS task force (renamed from WikiProject Apple Inc./iPhone OS Task Force)
 * 1) Support lower case per the norm for task forces --Jubilee♫ clipman 23:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Support ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 23:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Support Airplaneman   ✈  00:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Support per WP:LOWERCASE. PaleAqua (talk) 03:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Discussion
Also, Macintosh needs some more opinions on what should be done to save its FA status at the review here. Thanks, Airplaneman   ✈  20:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know, it was Mono who moved the iPhone project. I would like to propose two task forces, the Macintosh task force, which covers Apple computers and the software it runs (example:Mac OS X), and the iPhone OS task force, which covers everything the iPhone WikiProject covered, which includes software, hardware, and companies involved with iPhone OS, such as Gameloft and ngmoco. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 20:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with NSD. Modifying my original post accordingly... Airplaneman   ✈  21:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I moved it and I agree with NSD.-- m o ɳ o 22:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Will the iPhone taskforce cover iTunes, iPod and all other things "i"-ish? --Jubilee♫ clipman 23:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The iPhone OS task force would cover iTunes as its syncing program and music store, and it would include iPod Touch since it's hardware that runs iPhone OS. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 23:55, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That makes sense --Jubilee♫ clipman 00:14, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Do we really need subpages? I think subsections on the main project page is sufficient. See also a historical proposal for task forces. It proposes an iPod task force, which will probably get merged into the iPhone task force. HereToHelp (talk to me) 23:50, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This project covers everything from Apple Inc. and Macintosh, through Mac OS X and iBook, to Safari (web browser), iPad, iTunes and Mac OS X Snow Leopard. And a lot more besides...  --Jubilee♫ clipman  00:14, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * iPad? iPad belongs under WP:IPHONEOS, along with iBook.-- m o ɳ o  00:18, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * So pretty much every iPod product and iPhone OS-running Apple product :). I think subpages would be beneficial. Airplaneman   ✈  00:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree with Airplaneman. The task forces should have their own subpages. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 00:28, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Xenobot Mk V to tag articles in project scope and/or auto-assess unassessed articles
A request has been made to tag & auto-assess articles in the scope of this project based on  and/or auto-assess the project's unassessed articles.

To auto-assess, looks for a stub template on the article, or inherits the class rating from other project banners (see here for further details).

Feel free to raise any questions or concerns regarding this process. The task will commence after 72 hours if there are no objections.

m o ɳ o 00:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I was also thinking of this. You beat me to it. Support Airplaneman   ✈  00:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * -- m o ɳ o 00:55, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Airplaneman  ✈  00:56, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I've recursed all the way through Category:Apple Inc. and placed the results at WikiProject Macintosh/Categories. Please remove any unsuitable categories (the StarCraft ones, for example, look off). – xeno talk 01:00, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Removed all irrelevant categories. Airplaneman   ✈  02:07, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've never seen this operation in progress before. As I understand it, the bot will tag all articles in the categories and fill out as many parameters as possible, correct? Airplaneman   ✈  02:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct... See User:Xenobot/R; there are examples of past runs. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 02:38, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Please tell us when the bot is up and running this task! Airplaneman   ✈  20:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 14:01, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * My instructions are to tag images, templates, and categories but these will all be sorted into NA-class. Is that desirable? – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 13:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is fine. Airplaneman   ✈  21:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 23:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Roger roger. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 13:18, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Jmho but including all Mac games seems like overkill. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 13:18, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * But there aren't that many :P I understand your point; considering most of the people here aren't that interested in video games, it makes sense to focus on Mac-exclusives or very important ones to Macs (Bungie's old games, Cyan Worlds, maybe Blizzard, I think). If they're getting tagged, is there a category for mac games? I could go through and try to do some cleaning. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 15:14, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the main overkill is probably coming from the cross-platform Max OS /X games. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 15:18, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Category:Apple II games
 * Category:Apple IIGS games
 * Category:Cancelled Mac OS games
 * Category:Cancelled Mac OS X games
 * Category:IPad games
 * Category:IPhone OS-only games
 * Category:IPhone OS games
 * Category:IPod games
 * Category:Mac OS-only games
 * Category:Mac OS games
 * Category:Mac OS X-only games
 * Category:Mac OS X games
 * Category:Screenshots of Mac games
 * Category:ScummVM supported games

Unassessed articles below 2500 bytes to receive "stub" rating
To further reduce the size of the unassessed articles category, it is proposed that assign a "stub" rating (with the length parameter set) to any articles below 2500 bytes. This task will commence in 48 hours unless there are objections to this. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 13:08, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This is ✅. Still 577 left. Happy assessing, – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 20:49, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

New mac citation template
Hi guys! I decided, since no one can come up with a way to cite Macintosh specifications to everyone's satisfaction, to develop one on my own. Introducing cite mac, a template designed to making citing apple.com and everymac.com easy. I'm posting this so the project can provide feedback and improve it (I have no experience designing citation templates). HereToHelp (talk to me) 18:16, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I;ll give the folks at WP:REFTOOLBAR a ring so they can implement this.--   m o n o   18:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoa. One, it's still underdeveloped and probably needs some fancy syntax restructuring. Two, it's only for a very small number of articles, and I don't think it needs to go in the toolbar that everyone sees (unless there's a way for only interested users to add it). HereToHelp (talk to me) 19:35, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * My point exactly.--  m o n o   22:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay. Your link was broken when I commented so I didn't see that there is, in fact, a way for only interested users to add it, in which case I fully support you. But I would like someone familiar with citation template syntax to review and if necessary fix it. Should I ask at WP:VP/T, or template talk:Citation? HereToHelp (talk to me) 23:22, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably the script's talkpage, then notify top code contributors.--  m o n o   23:38, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

←Look what I found! RefToolbar_2.0 gives directions. m o n o  23:40, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * So:


 * Right? HereToHelp (talk to me) 00:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)