Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Backpacking/Archive 1

Startup, concerns, and information
A hearty thank you to those of you who expressed information in this project; I'm glad to see we've had our first two members sign up, and more will surely follow. For now, a few things need doing, first off, organization. Information, Todo lists, articles, categories, stubs and templates, all these need to be incorporated into this project page. Also, the new navigation table (modled off of the WP:SCOUT navigation table) needs to be updated and worked on. Anyone who wants to do any of these things, have at it! And though i'm not great with wikisyntax yet, I will attempt to help those who ask. Just leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks, -Leif902 22:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion: find backpacking wikis to use as safe havens for unencyclopedic content
Hello, see my reply to your note on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cycling. There I suggested to look for outside wikis that accept a wider range of backbacking content than Wikipedia does (FreeTrails might be one). This is useful to avoid hurt feelings when well-meaning backpacking enthusiasts see their articles getting deleted here. Wikipedia deletes many pages; wikis that cater to special interests typically do not delete as much, as smaller wikis are usually eager for more content, and most of the members share their common interest. On Wikipedia, you could have some of your backpacking articles being deleted by folks who don't care a fig about backpacking. It pays to promote a safe outlet for content that doesn't make Wikipedia's cut. --Teratornis 03:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip, however, I don't want to create random articles, rather, I want to improve geography related trail articles and articles on major companies such as REI or The North Face, etc. Any help you'd like to give would be appreciated (being a part of such a similar sport). - Leif902 18:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As your WikiProject grows, it will attract more people who are interested in backpacking, and probably some of them will start some articles that get tagged for deletion because they aren't encyclopedic enough. An example would be a firsthand report of conditions on a specific trail. In bicycling we have the exactly analogous situation with firsthand reports of conditions on a specific bicycle route. The way most people would write this, it would be original research, and while this type of content is extremely valuable to fellow participants, and anyone can directly verify the content by visiting the location themselves, it wouldn't meet Wikipedia's attribution requirement if it had not first appeared in a reputable publication. When a lot of people get involved in a project, at all levels of Wikipedia experience, not all will have an equal understanding of the Wikipedia rules. So I'm just suggesting to have a list of alternative wikis handy when the inevitable disputes arise. Moving an article to another wiki is much nicer than watching it vanish altogether. --Teratornis 19:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Meant to say though, I really do like your idea, I think i'll create a wiki maybe later... Thanks :) - Leif902 18:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been editing Wikipedia anonymously for a while, but I recently created an account so I'll have an identity here. I'm also going to start adding appropriate content to help out the Backpacking, Hiking, and Mountains projects.  I founded hikedatabase.com, a hiking guide running on Wikipedia's software, a few months ago and I'd be thrilled to have people post "un-encyclopedic" hiking and backpacking related content there.  Miguel.v 02:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can probably build some valuable content out of Wikipedia's rejects, of things like firsthand reports of trail conditions. Get to know WP:AFD, and when you see a backpacker getting clobbered, invite him or her to your wiki. Also, people could develop their articles first on your wiki, and later try to copy them to Wikipedia when they are in encyclopedic shape. Then they don't have to worry about Wikipedia deleting them while they are still rough. --Teratornis 19:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I should add that I think it is natural, and should be encouraged, for enthusiasts in any topic that has articles on Wikipedia to edit both on Wikipedia, and on external wikis that cater to their interests. I think this would go a long way to defuse or avoid edit warring on Wikipedia. People need outlets for their POV, so they can muster the necessary NPOV restraint here. It's sad to see people fight over Wikipedia as if it's the only option. The WikiMedia Foundation gives away the MediaWiki software, as if to encourage the expression of every point of view. --Teratornis 01:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I apologize if I am not submiting properly. This is a first.

But I have a question pertaining to the Wiki backpacking project. I have written several articles on certain trails in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. They are on my website here: http://www.pigeon-forge-gatlinburg-family-git2know.com/Hiking.html

My question is what would be the best and appropriate way for me to contribute info for wikireaders concerning backpacking these trails? Is there an appropiate place to post a link?

Git2know 21:27, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Keep trails project separate
Even if it is relatively inactive at the moment, we should leave WP:TRAIL alone and instead try to use this to spur more interest in it. The two are significantly different enough in focus despite their related nature that I don't think they would combine well (It would, to my view, be like combining WP:USRD or WP:HWY and WP:CARS). Daniel Case 01:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, you can remove my text if you want, just a suggestion, I see what you mean though. (But i don't think it's really just relativly inactive, I really don't think it's being worked on at all except by me on occasion) Leif902 02:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it is winter in most of the Northern Hemisphere ... not the best season for taking good trail pics and writing articles, IMO. See how it goes come summer. Daniel Case 03:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

One thing we can do
I was looking through the articles in Category:Hiking equipment (which I created, ages ago), to put project notices on their talk pages.

I found one featured article, beverage-can stove, and saw immediately that it was not up to our present standards for FAs. I therefore have have listed it on WP:FAR.

It mainly needs citations. If someone wants to buckle down and put them in (not my area of expertise), this would be the time. It would be a nice way to distinguish the project from the gate if we were able to keep an article in featured status. Daniel Case 03:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Beverage-can stove
Beverage can-stove has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 08:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Other WikiProject advice
Some general advice for a WikiProject: --Teratornis 20:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Every project member might read WP:PROJGUIDE.
 * You can request a bot edit to put your project banner template on the talk pages of all articles in your project category hierarchy. According to WP:PROJGUIDE, that's the main tool for recruiting new members to the project. Make sure the project page greets the people who browse in from the project banner template.
 * Emphasize that the project does not own any articles, nor add legitimacy to articles beyond what any article already has (with respect to the Wikipedia rules). The project's goals are merely Wikipedia's goals, applied to articles in a particular subject area. That is, project members should agree that their purpose here is to build an encyclopedia, and promotion of an activity such as backpacking is merely a side effect. Specifically promotional articles should occur on external wikis sympathetic to the cause.
 * Members of a project may disagree when the larger Wikipedia community wants to delete an article that project members created. Having the option to transwiki to external wikis specific to the project's subject area makes it easier to keep everyone happy. Sometimes the article can stay on Wikipedia in a reduced version, with the unencyclopedic content moved to the external wiki.
 * Answers to almost every Wikipedia editing question are reachable from: User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia.
 * Thank you very much, this is all valuable advice. We should create a recruiting committee, that might help. Can you suggest any bots that can be used for posting project templates? Thanks, -Leif902 22:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I should have given a proper reference for bot edits. All I know about this is what another user did for WikiProject Cycling. Here is a link which should survive archiving. --Teratornis 01:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Scope
I have added back to this section the words "hiking, bush walking and fell walking" which have been deleted. The term "backpacking" is very US-centric and it is important to make British fell walkers, Australian bush walkers, etc welcome here. --Bduke 22:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. We should use the most general terms within the project's scope.  Miguel.v 00:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Addition to scope = definitions
Backpacking in the UK and many Euro countries can be classed as taking all you need for day cooking and day-to-day needs but stopping overnight at youth hostels or euro versions, is this classed as being within the remit of backpacking on Wiki or are we looking at taking tent/bivvie/shelter and using them each night (sort of wild camping) as the standard for the topic ?..... remembering that UK and many Euro countries have restrictions on camping overnight in some outdoor areas.... making the walker use hostels etc.

thanks Geotek 01:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yes of course, hostels and even B&B's can still be a part of backpacking, and this project! While I myself prefer wilderness packing, anything related to walking in the outdoors essentially is in the scope of this project. Leif902 02:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

hiking-stub
I went ahead and created the stub template hiking-stub as there was no objection on the proposals page. I think I may have violated a time limit (sorry If I did, I just realized this, but then I couldn't find one anywhere so I'm not sure why I thought there was one)... but anyways it's done now. Please add where appropriate. Probably best to use trail-stub on trail related articles, and use this one only for other things. But I don't know what the procedure for that kind of thing is. Use it! -Leif902 02:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have put in a bot request. Just to update you all, hopefully we'll have the category populated soon. Leif902 12:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The bot request was denied... anyone want to volenteer to do this? Two to three should be enough (I'll help too)... -Leif902 23:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Backpacking discussion from WikiProject Council/Proposals

 * Description : A WikiProject to organize backpacking, hiking, equipment, and book related articles.


 * Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)
 * 1) Leif902 10:19, 26 February 2007 (EST)
 * 2) LifeScience 06:07, 27 February 2007 (UTC) I'm an avid hiker and survivalist. I hope this project gets in the works.


 * Comments
 * I will begin this WikiProject if it finds support, however, I am not very good with Wikipedia syntax, and will need other editors to, design boxes, user boxes, information templates... etc.
 * I have started the project as I have received interest from several users... it can be found at WikiProject Backpacking please help us get this new project off its feet!

Image
Will someone please upload an image of an external frame backpack to Commons and give me the link? I already have an image of an internal frame one here:


 * Reindeer hunting in Greenland

but I would rather show an external frame model, since the frame can be taken out and used to transport meat over long distances. -- Fyslee/talk 21:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Scrambles in the Canadian Rockies: Adspam?
Scrambles in the Canadian Rockies is currently a stub, possibly adspam. Should this article be saved or go to Afd? -- Writtenonsand (talk) 14:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)