Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basque/Archive 3

Award
Hey, I created this image as an award for users who have made notable contributions to Basque-related content on Wikipedia. I'd appreciate comments about it, and if there are any objections about making it the official award of the WikiProject Basque. This image is currently just a suggestion, feel free to create other versions of a Basque award for community appreciation before a final award is chosen. Thank you.-- Hús  ö  nd  19:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That's really cute. How can we give it. I mean: shouldn't be a template or so? --Sugaar 14:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, the background should be transparent. Surely you can fix that.
 * The name should be either "Basque Award" or "Basque Barnstar fo National Merit", have a template (cloned from Template:The Barnstar of National Merit) and be listed in Barnstars/Barnstar of National Merit. --Sugaar 14:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It's transparent now. And since it's already been awarded I guess it's become rather official. :-) Someone with experience in Commons should move/place it there.-- Hús  ö  nd  20:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I put it on commons and put it with the Barnstars of National Merit. Here, i think it looks really neat, a lot better than those other ones.--Joebengo 02:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Bernard Etxepare
I translated the Basque Wiki page on Etxepare and included the entire poem Kontrapas. My Basque is less than stellar, however, so the translation needs some help by someone who actually speaks the language. Please take a look at it. Madler 12:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Bot to add wikiproject template to sites
I have contacted the runner of a Bot User:SatyrBot that has said he would be delighted to program the bot to add  automatically to Basque related talk pages, He won't be able to start the bot on the Basque wikiproject template for about 2 weeks so in the mean time we need to compile a list of Categories that I can give him so that the bot can search through the Categories and add the template to individual articles. If you would like to help feel free to message me.--Joebengo 02:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Category
I have created the Category:WikiProject Basque so that we could bring together all the articles in the Basque WikiProject. I spent all day using AWB to add them to articles with the project's template but then i realized i could just put the category inside the template which I have done. Maybe next we could work on assessment of articles.--Joebengo 19:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Popular music
Hi, I was recently working on a Basque rock band's page, trying to save it from deletion. I was wondering if anyone here knows anything about Basque radio, or charts - do Basque acts chart on a Spanish chart, or are there special Basque-area music charts? Any further information would be much appreciated. Chubbles 17:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Wrong locations
Hi, I'm a user of the french wiki (and half-basquish :) ) and I noticed on Google Earth that a lot of basquish villages in France are wrong located, because of a confusion between East and West longitudes. So that they are no more in Hautes-Pyrénées but in Ariège. --- Basilus, 16 August 2007

New Basque grammar article
I have begun posting a new article on Basque grammar, and also a separate one on Basque verbs. For some brief comments I've just written explaining this (and asking for feedback), please see the bottom of the Talk:Basque language page. Alan --A R King 16:56, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Excellent work, Alan! :-) They will need some wikifying though, particularly Basque verbs. I'll give a hand later. Hús  ö  nd  17:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Alan --A R King 21:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Húsönd, I have made / am making an effort to wikify the articles somewhat, but I feel a little bit uneasy about whether those who have suggested these articles are perhaps not suitable Wikipedia material may after all be right. I did write them with the intention that they should be good Wikipedia articles, but I can also see the problems with them, so it would be nice to have your honest opinion about that (and the opinion of other editors/readers, of course). One thought I have been having since posting them is that perhaps I should think about expanding this material and turning it into a Wikibook rather than trying to compress Basque grammar into an encyclopaedia article. Any thoughts? Cheers, Alan --A R King 19:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I do agree that the content turned out to be so extensive and thorough that it looks more of a wikibook rather than an article. Maybe a wikibook could be created with that content, and an abridged version be left for the article.-- Hús  ö  nd  21:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. I will think even more seriously about doing that now. I seem to have a problem being sufficiently brief about Basque grammar (some will say I have a problem being brief about ANYTHING, but this is worse), born of having spent too long (30 years?) studying and conributing to the subject. It annoys me though because I don't think it should be that way; as a professional I ought to be able to summarise effectively and "knowing too much" about the subject ought not stand in the way of that, in my opinion. But there you are.

Perhaps you could also give me your opinion on this: is being "so extensive and thorough" the only problem, or do you also perceive a (serious) problem of it being too technical (despite wikilinks covering the terminology used)? Alan --A R King 07:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually the fact that they are extensive, thorough, technical and detailed doesn't represent any problem with me. Perhaps the articles should stay as they are for the moment (someone will surely pop by at the talk page and pinpoint what exactly the concerns are). I, for one, am glad enough with your articles and have already saved them in my computer for future reference. :-) Hús  ö  nd  14:33, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Assessment?
Should we set up our project with Version 1.0 Editorial Team? It seems like a good idea to get all of our articles assessed so that we know how well we are doing as a project. T Rex  | talk  10:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Requested move
A requested move discussion has been made at talk:Guipuscoa. T Rex  | talk  05:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And (awfully) ended with a self-described rouge administrator ignoring the lack of consensus and going ahead with the move. It's just stupid to favor Spanish spelling over Basque,if anything it should be "English spelling". I have protested to the relevant admin but I suspect it will be useless. What we need is a to make policy - or at least draw a guideline on Basque names. --Sugaar (talk) 10:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed I fully agree. Those three spellings are correct in their respective language (English, Spanish, Basque; wrt original names some were first in Spanish, others first in Basque), but this is en.wikipedia.org, and not the Basque or Spanish equivalents. Lets therefore keep it in English. Escorial82 (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem is what are the actual English names. To put an example, as you are Spanish speaker, long ago I met two Swedish syblings who told me they were from "Gotemburgo". I am good at geography but it took me a while till I realized it was Göteborg. I had never heard of "Gotemburgo", even if that name might be used in Spanish now and then. My atlas named it Göteborg and nothing else.
 * Same thing happens with most Basque toponymics: they don't really have a common English spelling. Normally either the Spanish, French or Basque is used. Which one? That's the problem.
 * Take a look at Alan R King's "Presenting... the BASQUE NAMES Glossary". I do not necessarily agree with all and each of his conclussions but the overall analysis is very good. Alan is a corresponding member of Euskaltzaindia, linguist, trinligual translator and native English-speaker. Additionally he used to be member of this WikiProject, but it seems he got weared out with Wikipedia.
 * The issue is complex and there are many political biases involved. So I formerly proposed to use the official name (except when there is a very well documented English form, like Navarre) and set it as guideline. But we have an awful precedent with the guideline for Irish names, obviously dominated by anti-Gaelic feelings.
 * On the other hand we have some precedents like Channel-Port aux Basques, Newfoundland and Labrador (official name vs. the more common Port aux Basques) or Mumbai (official name vs the more common Bombay). And guess we could find others. --Sugaar (talk) 00:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I rather quickly browsed throughout this detailed Glossary from Mr King ; I am all but a specialist from translations and no English native speaker, but as far as I can judge, his reasoning is for a good part based on the assertion "The native language of the Basques is, historically and conceptually, Basque", which is POV, not easy to understand and with which I strongly disagree, at least as far as I understand it, as it seems to implicitly consider that XXth and XXIth centuries are less "historical" than older periods. He is thence led to "the general principal of employing Basque designations when there is no special obstacle to doing so", principle with which I strongly disagree. I have no strong objection against "official name" though, but it does not cover every situation ; for example there is no "official name" for Labourd/Lapurdi, which means we have to find out another way to choose a name for the corresponing article. French Tourist (talk) 09:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed. First and above all, the region and all its provinces, together with the main cities, have names in English (for example it is neither Guipuzcoa or Gipuzkoa but Guipuscoa), so in such cases there should be no discussion. And also, in the Basque country Spanish is much more spoken than Basque (Spanish by almost 100% of the population, Basque in the range of 25-30%) Escorial82 (talk) 15:14, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Bombing of Guernica
Could I prevail upon the participants in this project to keep half an eye on Bombing of Guernica? Someone keeps coming along and removing all mention of Nationalist low-balling of the casualty numbers and rewriting as if Jesus Larrazabal's version of things were definitive. I'm not very active monitoring articles these days, but each time I come back to it (once every month or two) this has been done again. Whoever it is has been unwilling to engage the topic on the talk page, where this has been repeatedly objected to (and where Larrazabal's credibility has been repeatedly questioned even more strongly than I would question it).

The ideal, of course, would be for someone to do a good survey of the literature on the topic and strengthen the section in question.

Thanks in advance. - Jmabel | Talk 01:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It's in my watchlist and I am back. Yet I feel kind of demotivated to edit anything that has Spanish spelling like "Guernica", "Guipúzcoa", etc. In the case of this article the war specialists decided that "Guernica" spelling was the proper one, so let them keep the facts correct.
 * If they are not keeping an eye, I would begin by restoring the Basque spelling before keeping a wider watch.
 * Just my opinion, anyhow. --Sugaar (talk) 00:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Praileaitz Cave article
It was pointed out to me that I posted this to the wrong place, so here goes again...

I translated the Spanish article on the Praileatz cave. The result is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praileaitz_Cave

However, I don't have time to add any of the English-language links, etc., so could someone help out? Eskerrik asko!  Madler  22:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. Also expanded a little: you are focused in the protection issue, surely very important, but you skipped the unusual art set that dominated all headlines. --Sugaar (talk) 11:29, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Basque writer stub template?
The Etchepare article has a "French writer stub" thing attached to it, and the Atxaga has a Spanish one. How do you make these stubs, so I can make one for "Basque writer"?  Madler  22:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This should help. :-) Regards, Hús  ö  nd  03:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh-oh. I didn't realize I had to monitor this so closely. I just assumed it would get ignored and approved by default. My bad. Here is what I got: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2007/December#Basque_Writer_Stub.
 * Is this legitimate? The rule about the no. of stubs sounds okay, but we can fix that. Still, it seems strange that a Basque literature page is possible, but not a Basque writer stub. Who do they think is writing all that Basque literature?
 * Either way, it's never too late, no matter what pretty colors they box the discussion in.  Madler  12:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Added new Basque writer page
I've added Joan Perez de Lazarraga. It needs more links, and categorization, and all that, but I'm still learning how that is all done, so any help would be appreciated. Also, someone decided it needs to be deleted about 5 seconds after I created it. WTF?  Madler  04:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

New major article: Basque Prehistory
I'm glad to announce that I have just created a new important article: Basque Prehistory. Take a look, please, and help to imporve it. Thanks, --Sugaar (talk) 11:09, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Koldo Mitxelena
I've added a new page on Koldo Mitxelena.  Я Madler גם זה יעבור R  12:27, 29 December 2007 (UTC)