Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Archive 47

Wendy Toye
This is a continuation of my previous comments last month. I see that someone has done a bit of updating (thanks very much) and I've added a couple of small additions myself. I'd like to do more, but don't really know where to start. Her dates of active work are a bit wrong - her first public performance was in 1920 or 1921 at the Albert Hall. Ptoye (talk) 14:35, 2 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you have a specific question? Maurreen (talk) 15:12, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Anything I can help with? Re the "first public performance": I think the infobox is talking about her professional career which (normally) precludes appearances as a toddler...  There are exceptions, of course, (many, in fact).  If her appearance at the Albert Hall at the age of 3 or 4 is especially notable and can be sourced, it should be included somewhere in the article though.  I am happy to continue this discussion via the article's talk page or via my talkpage but I am a little busy at the moment in RL (and have the-worst-internet-connection-ever at the moment...).  Maurreen: any other thoughts on this?  --Jubilee♫ clipman  17:41, 2 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a great start. I did make some smallish changes.
 * You say she's a doctor, but I don't see any support for that. Real or honorary degree? When, what school, and what subject?
 * You also might want to reconsider the order of some items. Maurreen (talk) 06:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

FAR for Ziad Jarrah
nominated Ziad Jarrah for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:16, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Paul Korda
There are no citations or references for supporting most of the statements in this autobiography. It basically seems to be a long exercise in self-aggrandizement and name dropping. The author tries to associate himself with as many famous names as possible, without references, citations, or supporting documentation of any kind. The author's AllMusic page seems to be very similar in structure. Other than the AllMusic author trying to associate the subject's name with as many famous music industry names as possible, there really isn't much supportable information given. There are a few "albums" listed, with absolutely no reviews, track listings, credits, etc. Also, the review (like the Wiki page) seems inordinately long for such a peripheral figure. I recommend this biography be downgraded until or unless it is better supported.

Gil gosseyn (talk) 04:49, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


 * These comments could be more effective on the article's talk page. Maurreen (talk) 06:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Gil gosseyn appears to be incorrect in his anonymous contribution, not only about supporting references, but also regarding the independent author employed by AllMusicGuide. Gil gosseyn appears to wish harm to the artist by judging his work as peripheral, when it is clear from several Wikipedia articles that he was associated with references made, and these include what have been recognized contributions to both the music and acting fields. He also wishes Wikipedia to downgrade the article. One might wonder if his motive is questionable and subject to a violation of Wikipedia Talks code of conduct. Love2world (talk) 21:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested articles/Biographies
Hello, just wondering if anyone at this project is taking care of Requested articles/Biographies? The page is kind of a mess. If someone could explain procedures, would be willing to help out. --Funandtrvl (talk) 02:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I haven't been involved with that. Maurreen (talk) 22:16, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Daniel Reed (screenwriter)
Please add to his stub biography that he was a leading founder of the Columbia (S.C.) Stage Society in 1919. In 1924, this became the Town Theater of Columbia, S.C.

Reference: www.nationalregister.sc.gov/richland/S10817740029/S10817740029.pdf  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.182.167.11 (talk) 11:27, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You can do it. Maurreen (talk) 22:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Rob Marciano CNN News
Is he related to Rocky Marciano?

(65.112.229.192 (talk) 21:48, 4 May 2010 (UTC))


 * Try asking at the article's talk page. Maurreen (talk) 22:16, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

FAR
nominated Henry James for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Article "Medhi Bezad" must change
There is no Medhi Behzad! it must change to Mehdi Behzad —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahand ar7 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You can do it. Maurreen (talk) 19:15, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually they can't. New users with accounts less than 4 days old or less than 10 edits can't move pages (see WP:AUTOCONFIRM). However someone else has moved the article to Mehdi Behzad so it has now been resolved. Road Wizard (talk) 01:04, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

[Presumed] Clarifications Offered
I apologize for my lack of experience in providing help for Wiki articles and unwillingness to launch into the training, but I’d like to propose some clarifications and suggest the need for a few more to the author, and he/she may do with them what they will. First, a suggested re-write:

===========================================================================

Thomas Hubbard Sumner Thomas Hubbard Sumner (20 March 1807 – 9 March 1876) was a sea captain during the 19th century. He is best known for developing the celestial navigation method known as the Sumner Line or line of position.

Biography Thomas Hubbard Sumner was born in Boston on March 20, 1807, the son of Thomas Waldron Sumner, an architect, and Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Hubbard, of Weston Massachusetts. Sumner was one of eleven children, four of whom died young. Of the seven that survived, he was the only son. He entered Harvard at age fifteen.

At age nineteen, shortly after graduating, he married a woman with whom he had become entangled and they moved to New York. The marriage was short-lived, as they were divorced three years later. He then enrolled as a common sailor on a ship engaged in the China trade, and within eight years he had risen to the rank of captain and was master of his own ship. On March 10, 1834 he married Selina Christiana Malcolm, of Connecticut. Together they had six children, between 1835 and 1848, two of whom died in infancy.

On November 25, 1837, Sumner sailed from Charleston, South Carolina, bound for Greenock, Scotland. It was during that voyage, while entering the channel of Saint George and the Irish sea, that he discovered the principle upon which his new method of navigation was based. Perfecting it over the ensuing years, he published it in the form of a short book in 1843.

Shortly after that his mind began to fail, and in 1850 he was committed to the McLean Asylum in Boston. His state of mind gradually deteriorated, and in 1865 he was committed to the Lunatic Hospital at Taunton, Massachusetts, where he died in 1876 at the age of 69.

Two survey ships in the United States Navy, both named the USS Sumner, have been named for him. Also, the Moon’s Sumner crater is named after him.

Discovery He discovered the basic principle of his new method of navigation while on a voyage from South Carolina to Scotland, in 1837. On December 17, 1837, as he was nearing the coast of Scotland, he was uncertain of his position after several days of cloudy weather and no sights. A momentary opening in the clouds allowed him to take a sight of the sun which he reduced with his estimated latitude but, being uncertain about the latitude, he reduced the sight again using 10' greater and 20' greater latitude and he observed that all three resulting positions were located in a straight line. This line also happened to pass through a lighthouse near the coast. He reasoned that he must be located somewhere along that line, and that if he set course along that line, he should eventually sight the light; which, in fact, he did. He realized that a single observation of the altitude of a celestial body determines the position of a line somewhere on which the observer is located. He called this line a "parallel of equal altitude," which has since been more commonly called a "line of position." Sumner published his findings six years later, in 1843, and this method of resolving a sight for two different latitudes, and drawing a "line of position" through the two positions obtained, was instantly recognized as an important development in celestial navigation. A copy of the pamphlet describing the method was supplied to every ship in the United States Navy.

============================================================================ Further clarification of the celestial navigation terminology used, via links, would be helpful to those (like me) that are not familiar with it.

Charlie917 (talk) 20:54, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

New bio: Desiree Bassett
I think that - because its new - that Desiree Bassett was classified as a stub. Anyone looking at the article could see that its a bit past stub phase. Could someone take a gander and rate it? I think that it's mostly a 'B' on the quality scale and at least of mid-priority (she's known in her field, and beginning to have a following internationally), but then, I wrote the darn thing aiming to start out with a Good Article. The only thing that I still need is a WikiCommons infobox image, which will be forthcoming from the BLP subject shortly. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Biographies of dead persons
I sometimes see unsourced or poorly sourced content in biographies of deceased persons. In my view, these biographies should be treated similarly to biographies of living people. Is there a policy with regard to biographies of deceased people? Cs32en  Talk to me  00:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The primary reason for the WP:BLP policy is to counter the threat of potential libel action against Wikipedia by the article subjects. Articles about dead people pose a much lesser risk of legal action, so many editors don't see a need for a specific "Biographies of dead people policy".
 * As with all articles not covered by WP:BLP the other key policies of verifiability, the neutral point of view and no original research apply. The guideline on reliable sources is also useful in deciding what to do with poorly sourced material. Road Wizard (talk) 00:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the explanation! If our aim is not primarily to avoid libel action, but libel itself, we should, in my view, included biographies of dead people in the policy that is currently being applied to biographies of living people. Especially, the specific ways to deal with policy violations that are described in the BLP policy should be applied to biographies of dead persons as well. Cs32en   Talk to me  11:14, 9 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The best place to discuss that is WP:BLP. Maurreen (talk) 11:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Philippe Henriot
Henriot was a supporter of Petain during the Nazi occupation of France. After Henriot was assassinated by members of the Resistance, he was honored with an important state funeral. However, I heard a recording of a eulogy that recounted Henriot's birth, family, life, and later collaboration with the Nazi government, and finally, ending with the statement, 'Philippe Henriot, mort pour les nazis, fusille par les Francais', or something very much along that meaning. Unfortunately, I didn't save that podcast and now I'm trying to locate the speech, a speech clearly delivered by a member of the Resistance. Who delivered this, what was contrarian at the time of Henriot's death, eulogy?24.23.134.6 (talk) 18:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Poperties Owned by RedCross
Hi Robert, I work in Customer Service in the Call Centre and was wondering why Redcross owns their properties and doesn't Lease them so they can claim them, at a loss for three years, on Tax. If you could reply I would love this. Regards Anne Cullen —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.185.78.211 (talk) 05:45, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Jose Vargas
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Jose Antonio Vargas. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:41, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Honorary degrees
Somewhere, sometime I have seen mention that listing numerous honorary degrees awarded to an individual is deprecated, primarily because in most such situations the honour lies more with the awarding institution than with the recipient. I cannot find it at WP:BLP or WP:Biography or in the archives of this page etc but I am pretty sure that I have seen it. If anyone can point me to the right place ... Or tell me that my memory or eyesight is failing, if such is the case. - Sitush (talk) 13:57, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if the honour does flow in that direction, the recipient has agreed to accept the degree. If it's cited to a reliable source, what's the problem? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:25, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Not normally notable, I'd say. But I haven't seen a policy statement or discussion. And rew D alby  18:07, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, one issue (I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem) is that some people accumulate vast numbers of these things. A recent example claimed over 40 such awards, and although that was in India I have vague memories of various bods who, when I was at Cambridge, seemed to be picking up 3 or 4 a year. Now, an academic being recognised by their peers at other academic institutions might carry a certain amount of weight ... but a Bollywood/Tollywood etc star? Perhaps that which I recall seeing as per my original post, was on article talk pages rather than policy/guideline pages. - Sitush (talk) 01:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Category clutter is the problem. People should be in a reasonable number of categories, honorary degrees can lead to an excessive number of categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was discussed here (and probably elsewhere). I guess that isn't in itself a reason for not listing such awards in the text of the biography: category clutter is a real nuisance, but it is possible to skip the boring bits of an article. Ir's better still, though, if no one even writes the boring bits :) And rew D alby  09:44, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Biography of Tim Burgess (artist )
Wiki has got him as collaborating with Chemical Brothers in 2004. According to my CD Sleeve of The Chemical Brothers "Exit Planet Dust". Tim Burgess is credited as one of the voices on that CD...in the thank you's it suggests he made input, but according to the Copyright he isn't regarded as a co-writer...perhaps the term under-paid collaborator would be accurate but highly contentious. The bottom line of the blurb implies that it was copyrighted in 1995 Virgin Records Limited. please edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.231.43.97 (talk) 06:15, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

BBC presenter's DoB
Shall we add the self-declared birth date of a BBC presenter to his biography? Please comment at Talk:Jim Hawkins (radio presenter). Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * There was some bad-tempered copyright dispute on the talk page whose basis isn't clear (to me): is it relevant, do you know? If the subject is touchy about his Wikipedia biography (I simply don't know if that's the case) we obviously have to be circumspect, yet there seems to be no problem with this one detail except our reluctance to use Twitter as a source. If we are confident there's no identity problem about the Twitter account, yes, I would put the date in the text, with a footnote saying that it's based on his own statement on Twitter, and a link. And rew D alby  10:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hawkins not only objects to the existence of an article about him; but to the existence of Wikipedia. He continues to post personal attacks both here (recently reverted) and on Twitter. None of which is relevant to the content of the article. The Twitter account is (or at least as, last time we looked) linked to from his BBC pages. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Birth date sources
That raises a question for me. Since self-declared birthdates have conflicted with documented ones (IIRC, Robert Johnson, to name just one), do we accept the subject's word over a published source?  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  14:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Not applicable in Hawkins' case, as we have other sources, so I've made a separate section. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:15, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Er ... I'm not getting the full picture. If we have other sources, why are you asking about using his Twitter as a source? Sorry if I'm being stupid. And rew D alby  21:19, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

New article on British actress Sian Breckin
I've created this new article. If you've got additional input for secondary sources, please feel free to suggest them at the article's talk page, I'd really appreciate it. :) Cheers, &mdash; Cirt (talk) 23:08, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Sian Breckin

Medal templates as a pseudo-infobox
How should we deal with instances of the medal templates, used as a pseudo-infobox? Your comments would be welcome at Template talk:MedalTop. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Maria Manuela, Princess of Portugal
The current portrait for Maria Manuela, Princess of Portugal is not a portrait of her, it is a portrait of Duchess Isabel of Braganca by Antonis Mor. This problem should be fixed and a real portrait of Maria of Portugal used on her page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.253.107.184 (talk) 19:01, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Discussion on biography categorization
Please Wikipedia talk:Categories for discussion. Mangoe (talk) 19:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

One twin alive, one twin dead
Since an article about twins where one is still alive would be a BLP, how can we keep this from happening repeatedly with AWB? 99.126.204.164 (talk) 01:06, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Because this issue concerns a semi-automated MediaWiki editor, it might be better to ask at Village Pump (technical).--JayJasper (talk) 04:08, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. :) 99.126.204.164 (talk) 07:02, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Michael Yon
An article that this Wikiproject might be interested in, Michael Yon has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the good article reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. AIR corn (talk) 06:59, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

J. Waites Waring's headline is misspelled
In the entry for J. Waties Waring, the judge's name is spelled wrong. It should be "Waties," not "Waites".

I also suggest that the entry for Julius Waties Waring be merged with this. The Judge formally was recognized as J. Waties Waring.

Caljohnston (talk) 14:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC) Cal Johnston

Georgio St. Angelo
I wish I had the time and knowledge to upgrade the bio of Italian born American fasion designer Georgio St. Angelo, but at present I do not. Please, someone take the helm. The article is grossly deficient, more like an acolyte's legend than factual reportage of a life. With respect to the original author, comments like "... was born a nobleman, the son of an Italian count ..." are surely unacceptable: the purpose of Wikipedia is education, not spin, yes? Titles and bloodlines (among other things) are not really up for grabs. In the absence of verifiable, historical fact, such declarations are not statements, per se: they are assertions of the author's belief. That is simply not substantive enough for a Wikipedia biography. I am of the impression that such doubtful material comprises as much as half the article. May we politely consider the article in its present state as a first draft due to be vetted? Thanks to all. Prime-daedalus (talk) 05:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Biography - Leo Burnett
I have recently started a biography section on Leo Burnett as part of a project and wondered if any fellow Wikipedians had some thoughts and/or amendments on the section. Of course any advice will be gladly welcomed, and if you wish to discuss any areas please go to the talkpage. Thanks Jack Greenaway (talk) 17:37, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * As you have posted this on the main project talk page, I'm sure someone will be along soon to give some input at the article's talk page. But it's not a help request per se. Pol430 talk to me 23:02, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, I was kinda looking for "help" to see if I am going in the right direction but I get what you mean. Yeah, hopefully someone will come along :) Jack Greenaway (talk) 12:37, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Roc Royal <3 Fans
Let's talk about himm ! ! ! <3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.251.233.66 (talk) 18:55, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * This page is not a forum, and there does not appear to be a WP article about the subject in question.--JayJasper (talk) 19:13, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Daniel Stern
I am editing the article on Daniel Stern for a class project. I plan to simply elaborate on the information that is currently written.

Ohio55 (talk) 16:47, 21 March 2012 (UTC)Ohio55

Problematic titles of biographies of professional boxers and Muay Thai practitioners
Here is a link to a discussion regarding the titles of biographies of professional boxers and Muay Thai practitioners, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Thailand&oldid=483677819.

Samson Dutch Boy Gym is one of the problematic names mentioned in the discussion. --Computadorcorriente (talk) 11:45, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Billy Martin/American football halfback
The article on halfback Billy Martin, who played with the 1963 NFL champion Chicago Bears, indicates he is still alive. Pro Football Reference.com has the correct biographical information (pasted below). Mr. Martin died Nov. 10, 1976. I personally spoke to his widow at a wake last night. I can't figure out how to update the Wikipedia article and hope someone can make the change. Thank you for updating the article.

William Vance Martin

Position: HB Height: 5-11   Weight: 197 lbs.

Born: June 6, 1938 in Chicago, IL Died: November 10, 1976 (Aged 38) College: Minnesota  (school history) Drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the 30th round (235th overall) of the 1961 AFL Draft. Drafted by the Chicago Bears in the 4th round (43rd overall) of the 1960 NFL Draft.

71.194.193.67 (talk) 12:26, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Micah True
Dear Biography editors: I am (more or less) the sole editor of this article. It has almost 18,000 views in the last 2 days. It needs a fresh set of eyes. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 18:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've flagged up a couple of points where we need clarification or references. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Stub article
Hi! I was looking at the talk page for Hugo Rogers, an article I created last year, and saw that it was rated as stub-class. Looking at the grading scale, however, I feel that it is certainly at least a start class article. I was wondering how I might go about getting this re-evaluated. Thanks!--Yaksar (let's chat) 03:26, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've upgraded it to start, as it is clearly beyond stub class.--JayJasper (talk) 04:37, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks!--Yaksar (let's chat) 04:39, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Happy to be of assistance:)--JayJasper (talk) 04:43, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Peer review wanted
I am looking for someone to do a peer review for Rodney Atkins. Anyone want to help? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 04:37, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Bharath Sriraman
There is some disagreement at this article about what class it should have for this project. Input from some uninvolved editors would be welcome. Thanks! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 13:21, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:HighBeam
HighBeam details a limited opportunity for experienced Wikipedia editors to have access to HighBeam Research, an invaluable resource for locating reliable sources for biographies and other articles.--JayJasper (talk) 18:37, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Giovanni Passannante
I need somebody to review this article because I'm italian and I'm average in english. Thanks! --Born Again 83 (talk) 12:35, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Sister project
I have listed three sister projects for the starting of WikiProject OWS and named this as one. Please feel free to join the project and help build the project, or just help guide in the Wikipedia direct.--Amadscientist (talk) 04:43, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Use of infoboxes on biographical articles
Discussions have arisen, at Talk:Marian_Anderson and Talk:Samuel Barber, about whether to include infoboxes on those articles, or whether "prior determination" prohibits them. WikiProject Classical music has been canvassed, but other interested projects talk pages were not notified; hence this post. Wider participation would be welcome. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Alicia Silverstone article
Need additional input on the Alicia Silverstone article on whether "undue weight" tags should be there where it says she is an animal rights activist. Please join the discussion. Only two people have stated their opinion on the topic, no way to convince the other of their viewpoint, more input please.  D r e a m Focus  08:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)


 * More input PLEASE!  Can an editor decide to quote from one article on a reliable source and dismiss several other articles from that same reliable source?    D r e a m Focus  21:46, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Adopting MOS on older articles, requesting comment
There's an ongoing RfC to discuss whether Deaths in 2012 and a large number of related articles should adopt the standards of the MOS. Previous versions, spanning back 8 years, did not do this, and we're looking for input from the community to see if adopting the conventions from the MOS would be appropriate. Thus far, we haven't gotten much input from uninvolved editors, so any involvement from the outside community would be greatly appreciated. You can find and comment on the RfC here. Thank you! &mdash; Jess · &Delta;&hearts; 15:36, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Aaron Kosminsky
How can the introductory paragraph of the article state there is "little, if any evidence" to connect the man with the Jack the Ripper murders when the "Jack the Ripper" heading of this entry cites several instances of objectively compelling evidence, complete with referenced sources?

The evidence may not be conclusive, but it is certainly valid. Text at the end of the article heavily implies that since there were lots of other suspects with similarly connective evidence, Kosminsky's inclusion is unclear.

This strikes me as editorializing, and I would advocate that this language be removed for the sake of dispassionate objectivity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.221.177 (talk) 16:01, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Jayne Mansfield: Peer review


Peer review/Jayne Mansfield/archive2 needs participants. I promise to be good, listening carefully to the review while working accordingly and fast.

This is a mid-importance article supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers within WikiProject Biography that was reviewed by Version 1.0 Editorial Team and selected for Version 0.7 and subsequent release versions. The article has come a long way from a fan boy mish mash to a fair enough GA. Now is the time to take it to the next level.

I have posted the WP:PEER to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Peer review. But, no response so far. I am sure this Wikiproject is not inactive yet, and participants should not be difficult to get. Aditya (talk • contribs) 06:54, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Lee Van Cleef
4/16/12.. I was also born in Somerville, NJ and knew the large VanCleef family in Somerset County, NJ they where very visable, and in local government..We Somerville area ites followed his career from the mid-50's's...real cool guy he was...looked the roles he played, yes, not the greatest movies out there, but his presence made even the lousy ones worth a look and see....memorable distinctive look and voice...in many ways he reminds me of the current actor Sam Elliott...Kent R — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.244.197.171 (talk) 15:11, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Earl Morris & Earl Halstead Morris
Earl Morris was an athlete.

Earl Halstead Morris was an archaeologist. Earl H. Morris is most famous for the reconstruction of the Great Kiva at the Aztec Ruins National Monument in Aztec, New Mexico. Earl H. Morris also reconstructed the Temple of the Warriors at Chichen Itza in the Yucatan. Earl H. Morris studied archaeology for many years in the Southwestern United States, some of the locations include Canon de Chelly, Gobernador, and Mesa Verde. Earl H. Morris was a friend and colleague of Edgar Hewett, Sylvanus Morley, Neil Judd, A.V. Kidder, A. Douglass, and several other pioneers in the field of Southwest Archaeology.

Earl Morris the athlete was mistakenly listed as an archaeologist in the wikipedia reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.123.204.193 (talk) 20:58, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Kenza Farah Albums
An article ,Kenza Farah, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Hasteur (talk) 17:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Levan Abashidze
According to his biography, Abashidze died on 7 September 1992. Only a few rows below, the article states however, that he died during the Abkhaz offensive on Sukhumi in 1993. This offensive actually took place in September 1993, one year after Abashidze's death. This part should be therefore changed or removed. --Czechmate83 (talk) 13:48, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Titanic Musicians' Memorial, Southampton
I am proposing a merger to Musicians of the RMS Titanic, even when they are two different topics. The memorial is more likely a subtopic and notable, but is the topic notable enough to be a stand-alone article? --George Ho (talk) 18:23, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Viscount Weymouth
Hi. I've proposed some additional content to improve the Viscount Weymouth article on the Talk Page. Could someone review the content and add to the article as applicable? Many thanks Vjdigital (talk) 13:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Question regarding Clarence Kelley
Hi; I hope someone can help me out with this. I'm not involved in this WikiProject but, for reasons long lost in the mists of time, the page Clarence M. Kelley somehow ended up on my watchlist. Recently, I've noticed edits (from multiple IPs and users) that attempt to make the case that he was the second director of the FBI, whereas all lists of directors that I can find clearly indicate that he was the ninth. I originally thought it was some odd vandalism, but as it's been coming from so many different IP addresses and users, I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some arcane fashion of ordering FBI directors that I'm not aware of that may apply here. If someone can help me out in this regard, I'd appreciate it. Until it's cleared up, I'll be continuing to revert these odd edits. Thanks! Evanh2008 (talk) (contribs) 23:21, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I AM THE BEST ARTIST Rene
i am the creator of the article "I AM THE BEST ARTIST Rene"... it has been flagged for deletion, BUT... i have added numerous links, and continue to collect more. there surely ARE more, as the subject is inarguably NOTEWORTHY, especially for anyone with knowledge of 1970's-80's New York. please do not delete until further reference can be provided, i've seen articles of much less merit than this in my wiki-surfing!

i am focussing my articles on the New York art world, and have specific & direct historical knowledge on the topic. i request peer support and assistance in this matter, i am new to these processes!

i am not even sure as to how to navigate these "talk" pages! help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penwatchdog (talk • contribs) 07:38, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Add Picture To Brendan Shine
Brendan Shine has not got a picture on his article, tried to upload one myself but dont know how could some else do it please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oslers01 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * First please check that the image you have is under public domain and not copyright protected. If you took the picture in a public place it should be fine, otherwise you need to check if you have the right to publish. Just because an image is on a web page does not mean it is free to copy. If it is fine then use the Upload file button on the Toolbox (left). Better still upload at Wikimedia Commons so it can be used on other language sites. --Traveler100 (talk) 15:51, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Couples who are only notable together
How do we handle two people who are notable for the exact same thing and have no notability aside from what they did together? As an example, Mel Ziegler and Patricia Ziegler are the married couple who founded clothes store chain Banana Republic. Neither appears to be notable for anything they did individually. Should there be a single article for both of them, or should they have separate articles?

I've encountered this type of situation for others as well and was hoping for some general guidance on how to handle this. D O N D E groovily  Talk to me  17:25, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Major Reconstruction
I have added the Major Recustruction Banner on Afzal ad-Dawlah, Asaf Jah V, and I'd like a few other editors to join me. I've told this here, because since 2005,(the year this article was created), it only had 53 edits, and no entries on its talk page. Mir Almaat Ali Almaat  ☏  11:39, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

suggested changes to the article Paul Leonard-Morgan
Paul Leonard-Morgan is a BAFTA-winning and Ivor Novello-nominated British composer, producer and artist best known for composing for television and film (Limitless, Dredd, Spooks).

He was nominated for the prestigious World Soundtrack Discovery Award 2011 for his soundtrack to Limitless.

Leonard-Morgan’s first film soundtrack, Pineapple, earned him a BAFTA. He subsequently scored the ITV drama Fallen, which was nominated for a BAFTA as well as an Ivor Novello award. Leonard-Morgan composed series 5-10 of the long running award-winning BBC spy drama Spooks (MI5 in US). He was nominated for a BAFTA for the score to series 7. He scored the 2011 film Limitless, starring Bradley Cooper and Robert De Niro. The film was directed by Neil Burger and was the Box Office No 1 in both the UK and US, taking in more than $160 million worldwide.

Most recently, Leonard-Morgan completed the soundtrack for the upcoming film ‘Dredd’, directed by Peter Travis (Vantage Point) from a script by Alex Garland (The Beach, 28 Days Later, Sunshine), and starring Karl Urban and Olivia Thirlby. Dredd is due for worldwide release in September 2012.

After graduating from the renowned Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama, Leonard-Morgan developed a reputation as a composer, arranger and producer.

Leonard-Morgan has worked with artists including Snow Patrol, Belle and Sebastian, Craig Armstrong, Texas, Nada Surf, The Young Knives, Mogwai and Joy Zipper.

Leonard-Morgan has collaborated with ex-Belle and Sebastian cellist and singer Isobel Campbell on all her albums, including her Mercury Prize nominated album Ballad Of The Broken Seas, on which she collaborated with Mark Lanegan (Screaming Trees). Most recently Paul worked with Mogwai on their latest album “Hardcore Will Never Die But You Will”.

In 2005, Leonard-Morgan was commissioned to compose the music for the official launch ceremony of The Freedom Towers, the iconic designs that will eventually replace the Twin Towers at Ground Zero.

In 2007, Leonard-Morgan was selected by the U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC) to compose a new US Olympic anthem, previously scored by composer John Williams. The anthem was launched at the US Olympic headquarters in Colorado Springs on September 11, 2007, with Leonard-Morgan performing it live at the Colorado Springs Concert Hall.

His debut album, Filmtales, was released in 2008 to critical acclaim and features collaborations with Isobel Campbell, Richard Colburn (Belle and Sebastian), Steve Mason (Beta Band), Esther O’Connor and Jenna Gibbons (Shapeshifters). It also features the US Olympic Anthem, Glory of Pursuit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cisumegar (talk • contribs) 14:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Firestone dab page
I know this has been raised before, but the dab page Firestone has repeatedly had empty page Diego Firestone added by User:AndrewFirestone777 (which appears to make it a page about him...). He's been repeatedly warned over the course of about a year. Nothing much has changed (except the frequency of the add...). I also know there's a place for complaints about this sort of thing, but can't recall where... Can somebody post a request at the appropriate place? Thx.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  06:55, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

James Hudson (diplomat)
Could the project add a biog template to this article, and assess it for relevant level please. Many thanks. Acabashi (talk) 12:35, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Suggested edit to article Paul Leonard-Morgan
Paul Leonard-Morgan is a BAFTA-winning and Ivor Novello-nominated British composer. He is best known for composing for television and film (Limitless, Dredd, Spooks/ MI5).

MusicFilmFan (talk) 16:02, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

keep, verifiable, sourced
The subject exploded quickly, as is the nature of viral videos. However, inside edition and Australian television have covered the story, attesting to its reliability. Further, as per the wiki deletion policy, items which are easily verifiable meet criteria. A quick google of "Thomas Bridegroom obituary" results in the South Bend, IN newspaper obit, further adding validity to the internet video confirming name, hometown, place of burial, date of death, and missing information from the obit (see http://m.legacy.com/obituaries/southbendtribune/obituary.aspx?n=thomas-l-bridegroom&pid=151080276&referrer=1964&preview=True ). In general, the information is now sourced, including by madsvassarblog, which links to multiple news sources covering Tom's death. There is no valid argument for deletion. 99.110.124.252 (talk) 00:29, 13 May 2012 (UTC)Leah, 5-12-12

RFC on Murasaki Shikibu
I don't think the current lead image of the article is appropriate because the costume and the hair style are incorrect. Comments are needed at Talk:Murasaki Shikibu. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 16:37, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

can somebody read for me — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.127.101.63 (talk) 05:16, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Paul Cyr
He died, May 12th 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.70.112 (talk) 02:44, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

AfD/Michael Rowbotham
I've nominated Michael Rowbotham, an article under the auspices of this Wikiproject, for deletion. Please comment here: WP:Articles for deletion/Michael Rowbotham (2nd nomination) Thanks, LK (talk) 08:03, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

RfC on adopting current standards for ELs on older articles
We're getting close to ending an RfC on adopting current standards in the MOS on older articles, but we haven't gotten too many responses from the outside community. Any final comments would be appreciated. The RfC is here. This message is being posted because the article is listed as a part of this wikiproject. Thanks. &mdash; Jess · &Delta;&hearts; 17:20, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Automatically removing flag templates from infobox
I recently bought up a request at WP:BTR regarding the use of, , and in the  template. At WP:FLAGBIO, it specifically says flags should never be used to indicate a person's place of birth, residence, or death, as flags imply citizenship and/or nationality. I am requesting for a bot to automatically remove any flag templates from the. already removes flag templates from the templates listed at the bot request. I would like a broader consensus to indeed move on with this proposal. --   Luke      (Talk)   01:54, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Great idea and it is a perfect job for a bot Bulwersator (talk) 06:41, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Anthony Burstow
I recently attended a seminar when a stalking case was presented as setting precedent in the UK legal system. I searched on Wikipedia and there is nothing about the case here, so I decided to start researching the article for myself. I have started building the article in my sandbox at User:Roleplayer/sandbox/Anthony Burstow and have compiled a list of references related to the case at User:Roleplayer/sandbox. Because it's a biography of a living person, before I go any further I want someone to check that: If anyone else would like to help build the article, feel free! I work full time and don't get on Wikipedia much! --  role player 10:58, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * An article is appropriate on this subject
 * The tone of the article I have started is appropriate
 * Whether it would be worthwhile me continuing to expand the article
 * My gut feeling is that what is needed here is a development of Harassment in the United Kingdom, which certainly needs it, or a related article. The problem with writing a biography is that it needs to be about the man himself and put his offending behaviour into context (and for all I know he may have been a loving and dutiful son, have claimed that the victim led him on, been bullied at school, or have had difficulties in forming sexual relationships because of some disfigurement, etc). There is a danger in rewarding harassment by giving that person further attention even if it is only notoriety, just as the victim's suffering may be prolongued or increased by constantly drawing attention to what happened. Leading cases are important and should be covered in Wikipedia, but it is often sufficient to refer to the offender by name only in the citation, after which the treatment of the case can concentrate on the behaviour rather than the person behind it. The sex of the perpetrator, the relative age, and so forth may be highly relevant in context, and if not they are best left out. --AJHingston (talk) 15:16, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Zbigniew Burzyński article
Can someone please look into this? -- The "Zbigniew Burzyński" article now claims, (under 'Biography'), "Zbigniew Burzyński was the son of Christopher Brockman and Władysław Burzyński", which seems highly implausible at best. Thanks in advance, 69.250.49.114 (talk) 16:45, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Sarah Vaughn early life.
Where is the history of Sarah's vocal and musical training? Is she completely self-taught? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.119.142 (talk) 03:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Ryan Adams: Marriage not listed on sidebar
Hi,

I am just wondering if anyone knows why Ryan Adams' spouse is not listed under the sidebar under his picture? It is the same on his spouse's, Mandy Moore, page. I do not know enough about editing Wikipedia pages to fix this, but thought someone else might!

Thanks, Stltsll (talk) 05:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)Emily

Dieter Gerhardt
I'd appreciate it if an independent pair of eyes could look at this. The person who is the subject of the article is unhappy with its content, and essentially wants the article deleted or rewritten under his direction. He disagrees with much of the information that's been published about himself in the public domain, saying that it's untrue, but lacks reliable or verifiable references to support his own POV. On top of this, there's apparently quite a bit of soapboxing going on about various issues that he cares about (e.g. nuclear proliferation, apartheid denialism etc.), but that does necessarily not belong in this aricle. He has chosen to be very selective about the aspects over which he is willing to co-operate to improve the article, and invariably falls back to personal attacks against editors rather than assisting with the subject matter. I've tried very hard to ensure that everything is referenced, but the article needs to be squeaky clean for WP:BLP to avoid any issues going forward.  Socrates2008 ( Talk )  21:38, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Intimate details
In the instructions, it says "a biography presents a subject's life story, highlighting various aspects of his or her life, including intimate details of experience, and may include an analysis of a subject's personality". I have enlarged the article Ruth Cohn adding many factual details. I would like to add details describing her personality. I could ask persons who have known her, but how can I support their memories with references? HPaul (talk) 09:57, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Asking people for memories is original research which is not appropriate for Wikipedia. However, I would expect that you're not the only person who thought of interviewing people that knew her about memories. I'd search news articles, or maybe there are even full-book biographies, for this kind of content. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  02:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well: that sounds hard. I have not found anything so far. There was a link to a radio station, but that link does not work any more...HPaul (talk) 15:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Notice to Wikiproject regarding a relevant discussion
There is a discussion at External links/Noticeboard which may interest participants of this WikiProject. The thread is Links to digital archives at unz.org. Thank you. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 05:22, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Manual Arts High/Boston Shootout 1981 Sweet Lu Clarke
Gary give me call let's reach this generation 310.330.8309 recoverywp2011@YAHOO.COM Bobby Watson Femont High C/81 Bobbywatson@farmersinsurence.com and Marcell Capers Arizona State 424.270.3941. We are teaching this generation the fundamentals of the game. You know my pop's Joe Clarke just passed away. GM, holla back I Love Big Boy!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.237.154.21 (talk) 04:19, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

"Jewish American"
This phrase is from the article about actor Paul Richards. There is no other mention made in the article about Mr. Richards' religion, and so it seems to me entirely gratuitous. It is, however, not an isolated case, and I wonder why the practice exists on Wikipedia. There is not an effort to identify others as "Christian Americans" or "Muslim Americans" or "Hindu Americans", so I would like to suggest, absent a good reason to single out Jews in this way, that, in the case of the article about Mr. Richards specifically, and in the case of all other biographical articles generally, that the practice be stopped. If someone's religion is noteworthy with respect to the contributions for which he or she is recognized in a given account of his or her life, then it should of course be included. But if not, then there is no reason to mention it, especially by using a phrase like "Jewish American", which smacks of somehow qualifying Mr. Richards' identity as a citizen of the US. Roberterubin (talk) 03:15, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd tend to agree. I take it this isn't a total omission of him being Jewish? If it is, I'd say it's a bad idea (& I'd prefer every page mention it, actually, since it may be of interest, & of importance).  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  01:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)


 * No page should list a person's religion in the introduction, and not anywhere but a personal life section, unless it's what the person is notable for. This includes religious leaders, people of other occupations who publicly and loudly proclaim their religion, persons persecuted for their religion, and persons famous for changing religious beliefs. Birth dates, death dates, occupation and nationality are listed in the intro since this is important to identify a person, but religion is not important to identify most people. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  03:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with all of that. I was thinking of instances where a researcher is trying to find out if somebody is, or isn't, a member of a particular faith group.  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  08:04, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Jankiel Wiernik
Could someone please fix the chaos the references in the Jankiel Wiernik article are? I added some information from the Polish sources, but since my technical Wikipedia skills are rather rusty, I messed up the references. They are supposed to be to one article (which was published in the book), which is available on the net in two partsPaszczakowna (talk) 10:13, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅, at least with Bartoszewski, which is what I assume you were looking for help on. When you cite the same source multiple times, you can use named references to avoid having to type it every time. For the first reference, you would type and for every use after that, you simply use BTW, do you know anything about the first source "Ghetto Fighters' House archives"? That references is not detailed enough for other users to find it. 12:23, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Leslie Paul more than wood craft folk
I knew Leslie Paul and I think this entry is very thin - he did so much more. I wrote a blog about this http://don-hale.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/leslie-paul-angry-young-man.html I would like to totally rewrite/edit this page - but I would be grateful for your feed back on this. Don Donhale55 (talk) 08:06, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You will need to discuss this first at Talk:Leslie Paul. Also, before you make major revisions to the article, be sure you are familiar with WP's core content policies and understand the guidelines for reliable sourcing. Also, as you mentioned that you knew the subject, please check out WP:COI to be sure you are within the boundaries. Hope this is helpful.--JayJasper (talk) 18:05, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * But don't let that scare you away. Be Bold! D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  23:05, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject tagger bot request
I'm in the process of requesting a WikiProject tagger bot run for WP:WikiProject Thailand. Since there are quite a few biographical categories on the list, I've also asked for them to be tagged for WikiProject Biography. That is, unless the members of the project object. Thank you. --Paul_012 (talk) 00:05, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Amelia Earhart
Why did she choose to be cremated immediately after she died? No way to fingerprint, no dna left...I always wondered.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.233.177.136 (talk) 13:48, 2 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Huh? Since she's never been found, she didn't exactly "choose to be cremated".  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  14:42, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Raimon de Miraval
"His nom de plume was Audiart.[1]" Graham-Leigh, Elaine. The Southern French Nobility and the Albigensian Crusade. Woodbridge: The Boydell Press, 2005, 28.

Graham- Leigh misuses the word pseudonym but even so from the context it is quite obvious that Audiart is a senhal for Raymond VI Count of Toulouse. This is confirmed in Topsfield, L. T. edit. Les Poesies du Troubadour Raimon de Miraval (A.G. Nizet: Paris, 1971). And Anne Ashley Davenport Measure of a Different Greatness: The Intensive Infinite, 1250-1650 pg 232, note 265. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.93.187 (talk) 19:14, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I've copied this to the relevant talk page (Talk:Raimon de Miraval). Since you have sources, feel free to correct the article. D O N D E groovily  Talk to me  23:35, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Professional Postnominals
WP:CREDENTIAL says that postnominals such as QC and CEng should not be used after a subject's name at the beginning of an article. This seems to be fairly widely ignored (though it's easier to find exceptions than articles that do comply). It also seems to be contradicted by WP:POSTNOM as well, which says that postnominals awarded by a "widely recognisable organisation" should be shown. My view would be that things like QC should certainly be allowed, and CEng would be nice (partly because I've got one!) along with, say, Fellowships of Learned Societies. WP:CREDENTIAL also uses an example of FRS being used, which is a higher honour, but only about twice as rare as FRAeS for example. Antrim Kate (talk) 17:43, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The idea is to minimize unnecessary clutter in the first sentence. The first sentence should quickly answer the question "Who is this guy?" Titles and credentials almost never answer this question. For example, knowing that he has been knighted does nothing to answer the question, "Who is Paul McCartney?" The first sentence then should read: Name (native language name if different) (birth and death date) is an nationality occupation. Titles may be listed in an Honors and Awards section later in the article. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  22:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it appears McCartney has those on the first sentence of his page, but in my opinion, they don't belong there (especially the cryptic abbreviations) D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  22:39, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. You've done more than answer the question - I now have a much better idea of what a lead section should look like than I got from reading the MoS. And the McCartney article does illustrate your point (albeit for entirely the wrong reasons!) Antrim Kate (talk) 12:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

John Frusciante
I'm requesting help in watching this featured BLP. An editor added a bit of OR citing a blog that was reverted by the Xlink bot. After being reverted, it appears the editor registered an account and reinstated the content. I reverted the edit and approached the editor to explain the guideline. The editor added their content again sans blog. I have received no response to my follow-up inquiry and the editor has not edited since. Please check over the history and make any adjustments necessary. If there is something I'm missing, please leave a message on my user talk as I will not be watching this page. Regards  Tide  rolls  23:16, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

celtic thunder Harrahs Atlantic City
I am going to see Celtic Thunder 6/30/12 at Harrahs Atlantic City. Will you be performing with them at that time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.150.169.77 (talk) 18:28, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

No research description allowed in a scientist's biography?
Could somebody tell me what is wrong with "His research" and "Other activities" in this article?

And is an Undue weight tag valid and acceptable when not explained in Talk? OlavN (talk) 06:52, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Marc Houalla for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Marc Houalla is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Marc Houalla until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Gérard Rozenknop for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gérard Rozenknop is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Gérard Rozenknop until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 18:11, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Fabrice Bardeche for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Fabrice Bardeche is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Fabrice Bardeche until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Featured Article Review
Please see Featured article review/Austin Nichols/archive2. Green-eyed girl ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 11:39, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Report on the use of self-published sources
The first version of a report on the use of self-published sources is now available, in WikiProject Wikipedia reliability. Some of the self-published sources listed in the report pertain to this project.

Suggestions on the report itself (a discussion has started here), and help in remedying the use of the self-published items that relate to this project will be appreciated. History2007 (talk) 06:13, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Lord Lucan
Hi there, could anyone offer their input into a proposed move of this article from Richard John Bingham, 7th Earl of Lucan to Lord Lucan? Question posed here. Parrot of Doom 21:25, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Help with revisions to Jack Welch article
On the Talk page of Jack Welch's article I've been making some suggestions for changes to help improve the article's content and I'd like to ask if any members of this WikiProject would be able to help with these. The latest suggestions include adding material to the new "Post-GE career" section and removal of unsourced criticisms.

I've made these suggestions on behalf of my employer, Strayer University, which operates the Jack Welch Management Institute, so while I don't work for Mr. Welch, I do have a conflict of interest and prefer that other editors make the edits I suggest, if they agree. I'd be grateful if any editors here can review the edits and make them. Thanks, Hamilton83 (talk) 15:18, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Franck Goldnadel for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Franck Goldnadel is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Franck Goldnadel until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 14:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I have read all but 4 of Robert Ludlum's novels
I spent the last 3 years in China teaching University. I got my 2nd novel published while there, and I got a good review for the novel. I am presently working on a spy-thriller. And in preparation for it: Since I have been back from China I have read Robert Ludlum novels.(He died in 2001) with 23 novels to his credit published in 33 languages in 40 different countries. I have thus far finished these Ludlum novels: The Sigma Protocol The Prometheus Deception The Matarese Circle The Matarese Countdown The Apocalypse Watch The Scorpio Illusion The Road to Omaha The Tristan Betrayal Borne Identity Borne Supremacy Borne Ultimatum The Holcroft Covenant The Icarus Agenda Finished screenplay: 13 Rue Madelaine, by John Monks Aquitaine Progression The Parsifal Mosaic The Chancellor’s Manuscript The Gemini Contenders Presently reading: Robert Ludlum’s The Rhinemann Exchange — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.250.68.16 (talk) 05:50, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Victoria Pynchon Article - Request For Deletion
This page appears to have been created by Ms. Pynchon herself. It does not satisfy the notability requirement, as its contents describe nothing more than a garden variety attorney in career twilight. While the article states that Ms. Pynchon is known for the ForbesWoman "She Negotiates" blog, this blog is not noteworthy, and garners few views. It appears that Ms. Pynchon is deliberately holding herself out as a writer for Forbes, however this is not the case. Forbes permits anyone to operate a blog on their site, much like blogspot.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.140.134 (talk) 21:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked at the page and its edit history and saw no evidence that Pynchon wrote the author, nor any evidence that the main contributor is Pynchon, either. If you plan on making accusations like that, you need some actual evidence.  D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  23:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I love your your reply sidesteps the notability issue. This woman is a nobody.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.51.145 (talk) 02:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh please. The Victoria Pynchon article wreaks of self promotion. Have a look at authorauthor's profile. He/she has previously been alleged to have been a paid editor, specifically within the context of the Pynchon article (and a number of other advertisements that have been deleted). And regardless of whether or not the article was penned by a pro, the point stands that this article does not meet the notability requirement, and for that reason does not belong on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.140.134 (talk) 01:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

@Donde - This is a resume, not an article. Where are the in-depth 3rd party sources about her as the notability requirement calls for ? Please find some or else put this up for deletion, thanks 2604:2000:FFC0:61:7D4F:E18E:F843:81F1 (talk) 02:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Notability, notability, notability. How does this person meet the guidelines?

There is nothing notable about this lawyer, she is just shamelessly self promoting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.71.231 (talk) 03:23, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree. She is a regular lawyer posting her resume. It should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.61.154.128 (talk) 03:25, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * To nominate an article for deletion, please see WP:AFD. Also this discussion would be better placed on the talk page of the article in question.--JayJasper (talk) 03:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Victoria Pynchon Article - Second Request For Deletion
I would like to second the request for deletion. Victoria Pynchon appears to just be posting her resume as a mediator. She is just an average lawyer trying to drum up business using Wikipedia to build her Google results. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.61.154.128 (talk) 03:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * In order for the article to be deleted, it will need to nominated via the Afd process.--JayJasper (talk) 03:48, 25 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The page has been nominated for deletion on your behalf. Please comment at Articles for deletion/Victoria Pynchon. Note that the discussion is not a vote, but a discussion on how this might or might not meet Wikipedia's inclusion criteria. As a result, signing on with other computers or asking friends to vote on this will not lend you side more weight in the discussion. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  04:44, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Michelle Rhee
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Michelle Rhee. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 10:15, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

David Sharp (mountaineer)
Came across David Sharp (mountaineer) which despite its look an appearance is not a biography but is all about a failure to rescue him and why it was his fault he died. It is referenced but doesnt appear to be balanced and certainly not what we would class as a biography. Feels like it needs something doing to it, should it be renamed? it has been around since 2006. MilborneOne (talk) 20:03, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


 * This has a section in the Mount Everest article; should there be an article 2006 Mount Everest controversy, which this could be merged into? (There's 1996 Mount Everest disaster and 1986 K2 disaster for instance.) Or, if this is just one issue in an ongoing litany, should there be something like Commercial high-altitude mountaineering controversy? I haven't been following mountaineering recently, so these are just suggestions, rather than answers. Antrim Kate (talk) 12:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

LEE LEONEARD???
Whoever wrote the bio on Lee Leonard left out a huge chunk of his TV career. From the early to middle 1970s, Leonard hosted a great talkshow on Metromedia's Channel 5-NewYork, "Midday Live." I don't know how you could omit it. He was known for having great guests and co-hosts. You need to do more research on this.johncheverlyjohncheverly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johncheverly (talk • contribs) 18:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * While you should not use your own source to add to the article, I encourage you to add the missing information yourself. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  03:15, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Two Lynn Farrishes, possibly the same
Are Linn Farrish and Linn Markley Farish the same person? Please comment at Talk:Linn Farrish D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  03:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Merge Grethe Ingmann to Grethe and Jørgen Ingmann
I have proposed a merger for Grethe Ingmann to the Grethe and Jørgen Ingmann article. You are all welcome to participate in this discussion because this article is under the scope of this WikiProject.Bleubeatle (talk) 11:35, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Thomas Talbot biography (Ontario, Canada)
There is no talk page for this article. It reverts directly to this WikiProject.

Could the author of the article consider this revision?


 * At his death in 1853, at age 82, the visitor's book for Malahide, his home on Lake Erie, bore the names of General Isaac Brock, Francis Gore, Mrs. Anna Jameson, Sir Peregrine Maitland, Sir John Colborne, Chief Justice Sir John Beverley Robinson, his brother the Honourable Peter Robinson, Dr. William Dunlop, Bishops Stuart and Strachan, Sir George Arthur, the Duke of Richmond, Lord Aylmer and many others.

The present article repeats itself in this paragraph and the one above it.

Secondly, can you add links to any of the people mentioned in the list? Remember, Sir Isaac Brock died before 1815, Anna Jameson was only in Upper Canada 1837-1838, Bishops Stuart and Strachan ought to be given their full names, etc. Oldontarian (talk) 07:52, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Georg Andreas Böckler
Can anyone help with the issue I've raised at Talk:Georg Andreas Böckler? Carcharoth (talk) 05:21, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It appears the German edition has a source. Anybody read German & have a copy? It could resolve the issue. <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREKphiler  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  10:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I commented further at the talk page. The question is about the birth and death dates. De:wiki's sources for this page are online, but the only source for these dates that I can see is a local history page which (a) isn't necessarily reliable and (b) doesn't claim to give precise dates: it uses the word um = "about, circa". It looks to me as if de:wiki copied the dates and omitted the word um. And rew D alby  14:24, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Would be surprised if anyone reading this will have a copy (assume you are talking about Bernd Vollmar book) but there are copies in 6 libraries in Germany (sorry not near one at the moment). I have found one source on the web which implies the information is from this book. At bottom of page of {http://www.furnologia.de/furnologia/a_hauptseiten/furnologia_begriff.htm} it states born um (about) 1620. --Traveler100 (talk) 14:29, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks to all for the help. I've found some sources, which I will post over on the article talk page, where discussion is best located. Carcharoth (talk) 06:02, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Infobox person ambiguity with 'Born' label (birth_place but no birth_name)
Hi. Comments (and template experts) welcome at Template talk:Infobox person. Thanks very much. -- Trevj (talk) 09:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Change of the title of the article Porphyrios Bairaktaris
I strongly suggest the article Porphyrios Bairaktaris to be renamed to Father Porhyrios Bairactaris or Elder Porhyrios Bairactaris or Archimandrite Porhyrios Bairactaris. He is considered as a saint monk and priest in Greece and it is insulting to refer to him with his cosmic (lay) name, without the title Father or Archimandrite (he was a priest) or Elder (he was a monk as well). For example Elder Paisios of Mount Athos who is another contemporary monk - regarded from some as saint - is refered with his monastic name (elder)and not as Paisios Eznepides or Arsenios Eznepides as his real name was (the monks change their names) 688dim (talk) 18:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Joël Courtois for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Joël Courtois is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Joël Courtois until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. 90.84.146.218 (talk) 07:47, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation of Frank Chester
I guess I should ask here too. Frank Chester is currently about a Canadian politician. There is also a relatively important cricket umpire, Frank Chester (umpire). And then there is Frank Chester (disambiguation).

I'm not convinced that the politician is overwhelmingly better known than the umpire. I think the politician should be at something like Frank Leslie Chester or Frank Chester (politician) and the disambiguation page Frank Chester (disambiguation) moved to the main page.

Further comments welcome at Talk:Frank Chester. -- Ferma (talk) 17:39, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

BLP categorization
This isn't a comment about a specific article—not exactly. I'm making a new BLP article in userspace, and I'm afraid I might be overcategorizing it. The person in question is London-born, of Irish descent, and currently working in the United States, where he is a naturalized citizen. I've read over Categorization of people and I'm still not sure if I've missed anything or gone too far. I wasn't sure about a few categories:
 * Category:English expatriates in the United States—(Appropriate for a naturalized citizen?)
 * Category:English football managers—(Is Category:American soccer coaches more appropriate? Or both?)
 * Category:English people of Irish descent—(Category:American people of Irish descent? Category:American people of English descent Some combination of them?)

Thanks for the feedback. The help desk seemed like too general a place, and there isn't an article as such to ask this on yet. --BDD (talk) 21:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, the article's live at John Daly (soccer coach). Feel free to tinker with the categories yourself or notify me on my user page or the article talk page. Thanks! --BDD (talk) 19:09, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Rosewood Survivor correction
Rosewood survivor Mary Hall Daniels is still alive and lives in my town. Please correct the listing that posts Robie Morton as the last survivor of the Rosewood Massacre. Thanks.
 * Please read WP:RS, or point us to some source corroborating your assertion. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:39, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Articles for creation/Gérard Desbois for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Articles for creation/Gérard Desbois is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Gérard Desbois until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. 90.84.144.187 (talk) 20:34, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Update to incorrect information on Charles Champion
The Charles Champion article contains incorrect information about his positions at Airbus. I’d be very grateful if someone could look at this and update it appropriately. I’ve provided the correct details in the Talk page of the article, but don’t think it’s appropriate for me to edit the article directly as I work at Airbus. So far I haven’t seen a response on the article’s Talk page.

(Jackh2012 (talk) 08:02, 27 July 2012 (UTC))
 * I'll take care of it. Thank you very much for the notification(s)! Evanh2008 (talk&#124;contribs) 08:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

RfC: diacritic-stripped "alternative names" required in the opening sentences of biographies?
As there have been a number of editor conflicts surrounding this issue, additional participation would be greatly appreciated.

Please join the discussion here. j⚛e deckertalk 17:53, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

What's the deal with musical groups
I notice that a lot of bands have the WPBiography template added to their talk page. According to this project's scope groups are not to be included "unless a substantial section of the article is a biography of a person related to that organization or group". Sifting through the archives of this page I see a few related discussions however that seem to suggest that a less rigid stance is taken (example). Is there any consensus on how to approach this issue? __meco (talk) 07:45, 28 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Personally, I say follow the stated policy and remove music groups from the project, unless more than 50% of the article is a biography. FurrySings (talk) 15:05, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So we can discuss this correctly could you please provide a link to the section you are referencing. Thanks --Traveler100 (talk) 15:38, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Whitespace can cause articles to be incorrectly added to Category:Persondata templates without name parameter
For example,

I was working through adding names to the persondata templates in the articles in Category:Persondata templates without name parameter and noticed that about half of them already had names. I played around with some of the whitespace after the "NAME" parameter title and noticed that deleting some of the whitespace and then adding it back in with spaces would remove the article from the category.

This is obviously unintended behaviour, so I figured that I should bring it to your attention.

Kind regards, Matt (talk) 21:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Albert Dekker
Mr. Dekker played a character named Jonas Bolt in the T.V. series, Rawhide, in 1965. The character who played his son was Johnny Crawford of the T.V. series, The Rifleman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.20.251 (talk) 21:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Help with Bob Corker article
Hi, I work on Bob Corker's campaign and I'm looking for help from volunteer editors to update his Wikipedia article. On the discussion page of the Senator's article I've left a couple of messages, most recently pointing out that there's little to no information in the article about his tenure as Mayor of Chattanooga. I have included a few paragraphs that I think could work in the article under the heading about his mayorship. Since there have not been any replies yet and the article is part of this WikiProject, I've come here to see if anyone can help. Please see my message on the discussion page for more details. Thanks. Mark from tn (talk) 21:28, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

River Phoenix (section: DEATH)
I have a problem with a sentence in this paragraph under the DEATH section of actor River Phoenix:

The paragraph reads:

Prior to his death, Phoenix's image —one he bemoaned in interviews— had been squeaky-clean, owing in part to the public discussion of his various social, political, humanitarian and dietary interests not always popular in the 1980s. As a result, his death elicited a vast amount of coverage from the media at the time.[19]

The line:

"Social, political, humanitarian and dietary interests not always popular in the 1980s."

This is opinion, having to do with a stereotype about the 1980s because certain people didn't like the President. It doesn't belong in this article or that paragraph. It's not fact. It's opinion. It should be removed. Something like this belongs in a blog, not an wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Phoenix — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomboxboombox (talk • contribs) 19:18, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You'd be better off discussing this at the talk page of the article. However I suspect you'll find that reference 19 supports the assertion. However it's behind a firewall. If a reliable source has made that assertion, that would be enough for us to carry it within a sentence such as you've cited. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:22, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

General Raymond S. McLain
I've moved the comments on this article, which had simply been deleted by another editor, to the article's talk page. (I've slightly reformatted them so that lines are not confusingly broken up.) It's not a subject I know anything about, though.Dsp13 (talk) 21:33, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Vilyam Genrikhovich Fisher
Hello all, a peer review has been opened for Vilyam Genrikhovich Fisher. The review can be found here: Peer review/Vilyam Genrikhovich Fisher/archive1. All interested editors are invited to participate. Thank you for your time. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:14, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Obama
I have nominated Barack Obama for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. George Tupou VII (talk) 22:50, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Discussion relating to the David Irving article
There's currently a discussion about how to word the first sentence of this article (in particular, how Irving should be first described) at Talk:David Irving. Input from other editors would be much appreciated. Nick-D (talk) 12:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The gist of the dispute is that, while there are several sources in the article that do dispute the propriety of the appellation with regard to Irving, there are about 2,000 published sources that refer to the person as an "historian". The suggestion is to follow the majority view and refer to him as a "historian" or "controversial historian" (also common) in the first sentence, whilst elaborating on the point of view disputing said appellation in the entire third paragraph of the lead (which is already in the article). <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- Director  ( talk ) 15:05, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Daniel Nash
There seem to be two Daniel Nashs who were active ministers in the early 19th century in New York State. The article talks about one, but what has been added at the end that he left and became a partner to Charles Finney concerns another ie Daniel Nash who was born in Onondaga County and served as the 2nd Presbyterian pastor of a church in Stow's Square and Lowville (at the time they were one congregation worshiping in two places). He had a contract from 1816 until 1822 which was not renewed by the church. He joined Charles Finney, who was from Adams N.Y, around 1826 and became a great revivalist. He died in Vernon in Oneida County in 1829 and was buried in the Stow's Square cemetery. A monument was erected by the First Presbyterian Society of Lowville to honor him and his work with Finney in 1899 in Stow's Square.Patricia Homer (talk) 20:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)Patricia Homer <Historian of First Presbyterian Church, Lowville>/<Historian of First Presbyterian Church, Lowville>

Missy Franklin
FYI Talk:Missy Franklin is currently discussing issues concerning people with dual citizenships, in this case, Canada and USA -- 70.50.151.36 (talk) 08:05, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Peter Gillquist the Cult Figure
Unfortunately,

Wikipedia is acting as an organ of propaganda.

Peter Gillquist, the recently deceased archpriest of the antiochian archdiocese is being held up as a modern-day saint. In 1984 he was sued in court in LA where 40 people and six expert witnesses testified that the Christian World Liberation Front AKA New Covenant Apostolic Order AKA Evangelical Orthodox Church was one of the most notorious cults in modern American history. Gillquist perjured himself so many times under oath that the opposing counsel made a cross-reference of it. In 1986, the biggest opponent of the entry of the EOC into Orthodoxy, the Greek Orthodox priest in Santa Cruz, John, was murdered/martyred by members of the EOC in order to bring them into Orthodoxy in 1987; this group preached hate, if not outright ordering a hit! Peter Gillquist subsequently ordered the excommunication of 40 Orthodox Christians in Salt Lake City; and went to my Father-in-Law and asked him to give my wife money to leave me! (Ross Andrew Berry)

There should be a page for detractors on biographies. The same goes for Columbus, who introduced slavery to the New World. Many people have lived mixed lives -- room should be made for both sides when their life is examined. Otherwise Wikipedia creates false and sanitized saints! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.70.170 (talk) 14:09, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Clement on Atlantis
•clement of rome on atlantis

••Atlantis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtlantisCached -

Some scholars believe Clement of Rome cryptically referenced Atlantis in his First Epistle of Clement, 20: 8: ...The ocean which is impassable for men, and the ... Very beautifully also he draws from the harmony of the universe an incitement to concord, and incidentally expresses here the remarkable sentiment, perhaps suggested by the old legends of the Atlantis, the orbis alter, the ultima Thule, etc., that there are other worlds beyond the impenetrable ocean, which are ruled by the same laws of the Lord.12101210    3 Ch. 20: Ὠκέανος ἀνθρώποις άπέραντος καὶ οἱ μετ’ αὐτὸν κόσμοι ταῖς αὐταῖς ταγαῖς τοῦ δεσπότου διευθύνονται. Lightfoot (p. 84) remarks on this passage: "Clement may possibly be referring to some known, but hardly accessible land, lying without the pillars of Hercules. But more probably he contemplated some unknown land in the far west beyond the ocean, like the fabled Atlantis of Plato, or the real America of modern discovery." Lightfoot goes on to say that this passage was thus understood by Irenaeus (II. 28, 2), Clement of Alexandria (Strom. V. 12), and Origen ) De Princ. II.6; In Ezech. VIII. 3), but that, at a later date, this opinion was condemned by Tertullian (De Pall. 2 Hermog. 25), Lactantius (Inst. II. 24), and Augustin )De Civit. Dei XVI. 9). For centuries the idea of Cosmas Indicopleustes that the earth was a plain surface and a parallelogram, prevailed in Christian literature.210 1210   3 Ch. 20: Ὠκέανος ἀνθρώποις άπέραντος καὶ οἱ μετ’ αὐτὸν κόσμοι ταῖς αὐταῖς ταγαῖς τοῦ δεσπότου διευθύνονται. Lightfoot (p. 84) remarks on this passage: "Clement may possibly be referring to some known, but hardly accessible land, lying without the pillars of Hercules. But more probably he contemplated some unknown land in the far west beyond the ocean, like the fabled Atlantis of Plato, or the real America of modern discovery." Lightfoot goes on to say that this passage was thus understood by Irenaeus (II. 28, 2), Clement of Alexandria (Strom. V. 12), and Origen ) De Princ. II.6; In Ezech. VIII. 3), but that, at a later date, this opinion was condemned by Tertullian (De Pall. 2 Hermog. 25), Lactantius (Inst. II. 24), and Augustin )De Civit. Dei XVI. 9). For centuries the idea of Cosmas Indicopleustes that the earth was a plain surface and a parallelogram, prevailed in Christian literature

DAB (talk) 17:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Viktor Berthold
This was in Viktor Berthold, but is actually about Marcel Bertholds: He was born in Riga to a Livonian family. Before the outbreak of World War II he moved to Argentina, where he studied at the University of Buenos Aires to become a doctor. He graduated and moved to the United States where he worked as a doctor and scientist. After that, he moved to Sweden and eventually to Switzerland where he died in the city of Lugano.

Berthold was active in Livonian cultural organizations, and visited Latvia multiple times before his death.

Also Viktor Berthold was not the last speaker of Livonian, there is one still living in Canada: articles about her in Latvian, Finnish and Estonian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Metsavend (talk • contribs) 15:54, September 21, 2010‎ (UTC)

Santiago de Liniers
Complements and correction have been done on the English version of article about Santiago de Liniers. Identity, his name is Jacques de Liniers not Jacques Marie Antoin who is his brother. A lot of addition come either from the French version of the article which is more completed and sourced by the website http://jacques-de-liniers.wifeo.com/ which assembles many historical elements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.85.212.184 (talk) 12:59, January 26, 2011‎ (UTC)

Mistake in the biography of Salomon Dykman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Dykman

"Dykman was born in 1917 in Warsaw, Poland. He attended school at the "Hinuch" Hebrew Gymnasium, and then studied the classics at the Institute of Jewish Studies at Warsaw University."

the Institute of Classic at Warsaw University has never been a part of Institute of Jewish Studies (which, most probably, didn't even exist before the war). Please, correct it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.196.0.22 (talk) 19:26, June 26, 2011‎ (UTC)

Edits to the Dan Doctoroff Article
Hi there- I have written a new draft of the Dan Doctoroff article to build out new sections including professional career and early life. I have also tried to eliminate the NPOV issues that were flagged on the existing article as well. Would someone mind taking a look at my draft and if found appropriate, implementing the changes on my behalf. I want to note that I do some work for Bloomberg and realize it creates a conflict of interest. I have acknowledge this conflict on my talk page as well as in the COI Noticeboard. My draft is saved here User:RivBitz/Doctoroff_Sandbox. Thanks for your help! --RivBitz (talk) 22:14, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

More opportunities for you to access free research databases!
The quest for get Wikipedia editors the sources they need is gaining momentum. Here's what's happening and what you can sign up for right now: In addition to these great partnerships, you might be interested in the next-generation idea to create a central Wikipedia Library where approved editors would have access to all participating resource donors. It's still in the preliminary stages, but if you like the idea, add your feedback to the Community Fellowship proposal to start developing the project. Drop by my talk page if you have any questions. Go sign up! Ocaasit &#124; c 02:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Credo Reference provides full-text online versions of nearly 1200 published reference works from more than 70 publishers in every major subject, including general and subject dictionaries and encyclopedias. There are 125 full Credo 350 accounts available, with access even to 100 more references works than in Credo's original donation.  All you need is a 1-year old account with 1000 edits.  Sign up here.
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RfC about WP:BLPPRIMARY
WP:BLPPRIMARY currently forbids the citation of any public record that contains personal details. It currently reads: "Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses."

Should this sentence in be kept as is, removed, or changed? RfC is here: LK (talk) 15:18, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Jennifer Margulis
I'm somewhat concerned about this single-authored article (by a one-article editor), which is very light on third-party sources, and touches rather lightly on the subject's apparent role in the vaccine "controversy". Additional input welcome. 84.203.34.116 (talk) 05:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Joyce Kilmer GA nomination
The Joyce Kilmer was a GA from 2007-2009. It was reassessed and demoted. I took the last two days to revise it and renominated it to return to GA-status. Please take a look at the article and review it against the GA criteria.--ColonelHenry (talk) 16:35, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Morlacch s are not Dalmatian Serbs
Morlacchs (or Morro Vlachs) are romanized (and aftervards Croatized) Illirian, Celtic and Gothic peasant population from Roman province of Dalmatia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.209.216.28 (talk) 11:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Project scope
Is there a scope statement for WikiProject Biography/Politics and government? --Traveler100 (talk) 14:17, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

UPBLP at 733
Some volunteers to help get the unreferenced BLP backlog back down would be appreciated. Gigs (talk) 17:57, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've done fifty or so, but it looks like I'm losing ground. --j⚛e deckertalk 00:23, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's back down to around 100. Thanks to everyone who pitched in. Gigs (talk) 13:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Most decorated soldier of Second Indochina War contradictory statements
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Jorge Otero Barreto. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:22, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Renate Crews (nee Krauss)
I am the daughter of Werner Paul Krauss, nephew of Werner Johannes Krauss. Curious to find any immediate relatives of WJ Krauss for further communication and sharing of ancestory and knowledge. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.219.69.168 (talk) 21:22, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Justin Bieber listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Жастин Бибер and Джастин Бибер. Since you had some involvement with the Justin Bieber redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). 76.65.128.252 (talk) 04:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Matthew Gannon
Matthew Gannon a victim of Pan Am 103 but otherwise doesnt appear notable, does being buried at Arlington National Cemetery make him notable outside of the BLP1E? MilborneOne (talk) 09:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:BLP1E only applies to living persons so is not relevant in this case. Other biography articles are covered by the similar WP:BIO1E. There is sufficient source material to justify mentioning him in Wikipedia but there is no reason that the text couldn't be placed in a Victims of Pan Am Flight 103 article and his name becomes a redirect. If enough material is published about his CIA career to justify an article then it can always be unmerged.
 * I'd suggest raising the issue at Talk:Pan Am Flight 103 for subject matter experts to voice an opinion. Road Wizard (talk) 19:37, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Guideline for which publications should be listed in article?
A question has arisen at WP:DRN regarding what guideline to use to determine which publications by a scientist should be listed in the scientists' biographical article. My understanding is: ''for authors, musicians, & artists, a complete list of works/publications is acceptable, even desirable. But for other kinds of persons (scientists, academics, etc) only notable works that are heavily referenced by peers should be listed.''  Yet, I cannot that rule written down (except in passing in the Science wiki project). Any pointers? --Noleander (talk) 23:31, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

David Mulford Article
The actual article and the whole paragraph about the judicial international order is a complete mess, without references, biased and complete inaccurate.

First: The date should go first than the judge's name AND the court he presides, because of basic information relevance, Mr. Mulford never was involved in the "corralito", he was the bondholders coordinator of the "megacanje" (a kind of bond swap) conducted by then Argentina's Economy minister, Domingo Cavallo with the bond tenders.

Second: all the information about the forced monetary conversion from dollars to pesos, the subsequent devaluation, etc; belongs to the "corralito" page. The megacanje its a different issue in Argentina and Mr. Mulford never was part of it, actually the "corralito" is a 100% internal issue, since the 2001 attempts to keep full convertibility between pesos and dollars don't was backed by international reserves in the Argentina's Central Bank, and failed.

Third: International "criminal" bodies??? I think Interpol was an international police force, body, institution, cooperation force, organization, etc; but "criminal"???

Fourth: The whole issue about "living" biographies, implies impartial presentation, with both sides of history, referenced.

All the previous create a biased and unreferenced page, even subject for an anti-libel legal action.

Im in capacity of edit the article, but if we can keep coherence.

Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maerendor (talk • contribs) 03:32, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The 'graph in question is deleted as POV, uncited, & badly written. This issue needs a cite and somebody with better English, and no axe to grind, to address it. <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREKphiler  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  03:59, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Annette Bening Photo
The photo on Annette Bening's page is that of an African-American. Annette Bening the actress is Caucasian. Check www.imdb.com/name/nm0000906 for pictures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swanifer25 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I take it you mean this photo? A bit tan, & not under studio light, but obviously her. I presume you don't recognize her... <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREKphiler  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  04:30, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I found an edited version that looks better and I've replaced the too-dark version in her article. FurrySings (talk) 06:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

J. P. Holding
I've proded this for 7-day "improve or remove"--reason is on the talk page (Talk:J._P._Holding}.108.236.133.118 (talk) 00:46, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of J. P. Holding


The article J. P. Holding has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Notability

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 108.236.133.118 (talk) 00:44, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

New draft for Nina Easton
Hi, last week I left an edit request on journalist Nina Easton's article, looking for some feedback on a new draft. I've researched and written the draft to address problem areas in the current article; as is, the current article is poorly written, incomplete and missing citations. I am posting this request here because this draft was written on behalf of and with input from Ms. Easton. Given this COI, I am looking for other editors to review and move the draft live if think it is neutral and an improvement on the current version. The full request, detailing the changes I've made, can be found here and the draft is in my user space here. If anyone from this WikiProject is able to take a look, I'd be grateful. Thanks. 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 18:17, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to let editors here know that this request has been answered. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 13:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Merge proposal for Nakoula Basseley Nakoula
A discussion has begun here to decide if the article Nakoula Basseley Nakoula should be merged to Innocence of Muslims. An AFD was recently closed as "Keep" with the suggestion that the article could be proposed for merger. Please help collaborate on a consensus. Thank you.--Amadscientist (talk) 19:36, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Request: Victor Vancier
I found myself in a dispute with user "Fairness and Truth" about the article Victor Vancier. He thinks the standing article is grossly inaccurate and unfair, I think his edits are grossly POV and partly irrelevant. So, it seems a good idea to let more people look at the article... <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 19:38, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Response
The article is libelous, completely inaccurate and blatantly biased: Fairness and Truth (talk) 15:41, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Victor Vancier is not the name that Chaim Ben Pesach uses or is known by. To call Ben Pesach by this name is like having the article on Barack Obama refer to him as Barry Soetoro, which was his childhood name. Or referring to Mohammed Ali by his English name Cassius Clay. Or referring to Malcolm X by his earlier name Malcolm Little, or Louis Farrakhan by his original name Louis Wolcott. Wikipedia recognizes in all of these cases that public figures should be referred to by the names they are best known by. To refuse to apply this same rule to Ben Pesach demonstrates a biased double standard. It can be noted within the article that Victor Vancier is Ben Pesach's English name, but the article itself should be under the headline "Chaim Ben Pesach".
 * 2) The article maliciously libels Ben Pesach, calling him a "virgin", claiming that he is not really Jewish and claiming that his mother is not Jewish. When I attempted to correct these flagrant libels, they were restored and I was told that I would not be allowed to correct them.
 * 3) The article libelously asserts that Ben Pesach formed the Jewish Task Force (JTF)"since Irv Rubin started to dissociate the JDL from Vancier because his terrorist activities had harmed their reputation". In reality, Irv Rubin committed suicide while in prison awaiting trial on charges of seeking to bomb the office of a Congressman - so to claim that Rubin was trying to change JDL's "terrorist" reputation is absurd since it was Rubin himself who gave the JDL that reputation. Ben Pesach was convicted of damaging Soviet diplomatic property to demand freedom for 2 million Russian Jews, but no one was ever injured in any of these incidents. But Rubin sought to literally blow up a Congressman. When I sought to remove this libelous twisting of the facts, the libel was restored and I was told that I would not be allowed to correct it.
 * 4) The article takes a handful of quotes out of context to distort their meaning and create an impression that Ben Pesach is insane. Many court cases have held that this tactic of selective quoting out of context can also constitute libelous defamation. A review of the thousands of videos that Ben Pesach and his followers have uploaded to YouTube and other sites reveals that these quotes do not accurately reflect what Ben Pesach and JTF espouse.
 * 5) The article libelously claims that Ben Pesach is barred from entering Israel because of his "terrorist" activities. In reality, Ben Pesach is barred because of his Kahanist views. No proof is offered that Ben Pesach is barred because of "terrorist acts", as the article libelously contends.
 * 6) The article libelously contends that Ben Pesach was involved in organizations "which has been outlawed in Israel and[7] were proclaimed illegal terrorist organizations in 1994 and the groups subsequently officially disbanded". As you can see from this last quote, the article is also poorly written and grammatically incorrect. In reality, Ben Pesach was never a member of the two organizations that were outlawed in 1994 and no one in Israel has ever claimed that he was. So this again is flagrantly libelous.
 * 7) The article deliberately omits the most important and relevant information on Ben Pesach: that he heads a movement with two forums that have thousands of members. There are over 5000 members on his English forum and 3500 members on his Hebrew forum. His Hebrew forum is comprised almost entirely of young Israeli Jews who reside in Israel, proving that Ben Pesach's organization is perfectly legal and fully functioning in the Jewish state.
 * 8) The article deliberately omits the other most important fact about Ben Pesach: he has uploaded thousands of videos in both Hebrew and English with millions of views. The Israeli media has reported that many Israeli Jews watch Ben Pesach's videos. I attempted to introduce proof of this in the article that I wrote, but that was removed.
 * 9) User:The Banner proved his bias when he restored the original article with the comment: "Your denial of terrorism has nothing to do with truth or fairness." In other words, The Banner wants the article to reflect his opinion rather than objectively reflecting the facts.
 * 10) The new article that I wrote is completely accurate and truthful. It objectively presents Ben Pesach and his movement. After years of allowing the most vicious libel against Ben Pesach, the least that Wikipedia should do is restore the original article and not allow anti-Semites to again introduce libelous defamations.


 * Calling any critical edits "vicious libel" doesn't help your case, & it makes you sound like somebody with an axe to grind. Deletion of them is de facto POV pushing.
 * As for calling Ali by his "English names", why, exactly, is that wrong? It's the name he was born with. Do you object, then, to Crazy Horse? Or Red Cloud? <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREKphiler  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  21:55, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Eduard Oscar Schmidt
Please, have a look at these articles: Eduard Oscar Schmidt, Oskar Schmidt. They schould be merged. I would do it myself, but I'm not really familiar with the guidelines of biography articles. Thanks a lot! Kontos (talk) 17:35, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

David Marchick
On behalf of David Marchick's employer, I have researched and written a proposed replacement version of his article, which is explained in more detail at Talk:David Marchick. The current article is very short, includes unsourced material, and I think also has WP:UNDUE / WP:COATRACKING problems. It might even rise to the level of a WP:BLP issue, but if so, it's not only that. Would an editor here be willing to review that situation and offer their thoughts? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:02, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

"The Man Who Killed The Deer" by Frank Waters
All I wanted to do was say this: I am sitting here with my copy of "The Man Who Killed The Deer" by Frank Waters(Pocket Book published August, 1971) and it says that this book was originally published by Farrar, Rinehart in 1941 and the copywrite was issued in 1942 and again in 1970. Your artical says it was published in 1942. Couldn't figure out how to do this. . . :/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Randyskat69 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * These sources, , , as well as the Frank Waters website have 1942 listed as the year of publication. Perhaps the information from Pocket Books is erroneous? It may be helpful to discuss the matter here.--JayJasper (talk) 18:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:John Gummer, Baron Deben#Requested move to John Gummer
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:John Gummer, Baron Deben. -- Trevj (talk) 12:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

How to add military details to a politician's infobox
Prabowo Subianto is a politician (currently not holding any office AFAIK), and he has a past in the military (a retired general). However currently I have no idea how to add his military service details in the infobox. Template:Infobox person doesn't have any field for military service, Template:Infobox military person doesn't have most of the existing civilian-related fields, and Template:Infobox office holder has fields for the military and civilian details, but I don't think I can use that because he don't have any office right now. LaBernardFox7778 (talk) 16:39, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Using Infobox Office holder should be fine. I have set up an example in my sandbox. Feel free to test different settings, remove unneeded parameters and then copy across to the article. Road Wizard (talk) 18:23, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

NPOV Javed Malik
I have helped with the wiki mark up language for content provided by email by a new user to wikipedia. A request has been placed at WP Pakistan regarding understanding the YouTube videos provided in another language to show verifiability that Malik was on TV. Could there be a quick look see to see if the article has a BPOV. I requested that the new user find newspaper articles to support any statments that they wished to make in the biography about a living person. Thank you for another set of eyes on this article. I think the citations needed templates could be removed now but will get another to do that to make sure it is OK. Kind Regards SriMesh | talk  20:45, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Autopsy images of Ngatikaura Ngati
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Autopsy images of Ngatikaura Ngati. -- Trevj (talk) 08:46, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Doug Kershaw
Interesting thing here. I've searched all over and cannot find any proof that his supposed hometown of "Tiel Ridge, Louisiana" ever existed. Literally every hit I found on Google, Gnews and Gbooks mentions him and/or his brother, and I've found no outside mention of the town anywhere. Does anyone have any idea what the origin is of this supposed town, or if maybe it's a typo for something else? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 05:54, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have searched on the article you have linked and cannot find any mention of "Tiel" or "Ridge." The page hasn't been edited since August. Are you referring to a different page? Road Wizard (talk) 19:58, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment about unidentified article
My sister is also a resident of Hawaii; she's made an appointment with this guy. She said it will cost her approximately $2,000 for treatment; think that's a little over the top. Yes, he lives in Hawaii, but really? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.29.182.138 (talk) 19:42, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. I think you have posted this comment on the wrong page. Which article are you referring to? Are you talking about a statement in an article that needs to be changed? Road Wizard (talk) 19:51, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

New article on actor Robert Boulter
I've created this new article. If you've got additional input for secondary sources, please feel free to suggest them at the article's talk page, I'd really appreciate it. :) Cheers, &mdash; Cirt (talk) 19:14, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Robert Boulter

William Rhodes Davis

 * William Rhodes Davis

I'd appreciate some eyes here. I tried to upgrade a sketchy entry and found my work reversed by someone defending some pretty indefensible IMHO original genealogical research. Thanks. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 19:31, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Christoph Bertschy and Christopher Bertschy
These articles seem to be about the same person. --Mika1h (talk) 12:50, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I merged them. --Mika1h (talk) 13:00, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Thomas Dunckerley
I have just added the above unadopted biography to the project. I've chalked it up as start class, and will try to improve it. Dunckerley keeps cropping up in my own research, and will necessarily be referenced from several articles on Freemasonry. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 00:44, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Eric C. Anderson
I have written a new draft version of the article Eric C. Anderson, now posted in my userspace, and I've explained the differences on the article's Talk page. I won't move it over myself because I am working directly with Mr. Anderson's company, Space Adventures, on the project. If anyone here is interested in reviewing and commenting, please do so on that Talk page. And when the matter is closed, I will follow up here an note the fact. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 16:27, 15 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Done. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 13:25, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Andrew A. Michta
Andrew A. Michta's page still holds warnings about the quality and reliability of the content. After reviewing the information and comparing it to other sources, everything is correct. The warning boxes should be removed! If not removed, it gives a very negative impression of the subject and that is certainly undue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.3.60 (talk) 13:23, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Lionel Gilbert
Could an uninvolved editor please review this article for C or B class? I was the primary editor and, thus, don't have objective distance. Thank you. Cla68 (talk) 08:03, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Requests for reviews should normally be made at WikiProject Biography/Assessment. However in this case I have reviewed the article and changed the rating to C-class. Road Wizard (talk) 09:20, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

what happened to captain pierce. brewer kidd jr
He became depressed and two weeks before he died he was put on anti depressants but they didnt work and he put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.132.6 (talk) 11:56, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Please provide a link to the article you are referring to. The only Captain Pierce I can find on Wikipedia is a fictional character from M*A*S*H. Road Wizard (talk) 09:28, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Jared's favorite
Hillaspn (talk) 20:19, 30 October 2012 (UTC) 10-30-12

It is my understanding that Jared loves" purple nurples" a fantastic party drink! And one of his favorite actors is Misha Collins!!! He absolutely adores him! Mainly his wit and great sense or humor. Can we add this to the page?
 * Not without adequate citations; nor without considering whether these things are such fluff and mindless twaddle that we'd be better of without said factoids. So on the whole, a) grow up b) no. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:31, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Stefan Th. Gries article
The biography article Stefan Th. Gries has been proposed for deletion. The discussion page for the deletion is Articles for deletion/Stefan_Th._Gries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FratHoneyBee (talk • contribs) 15:49, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

(If someone could post this on the WikiProject Linguistics talk page, that would be appreciated.) FratHoneyBee (talk) 15:51, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Walter Leslie (1607-67)
Hello,

As the author of a book referred to frequently in this entry, I felt the need to edit the content briefly this evening. Walter Leslie was born in 1606 not 1607 and there were, and remain, numerous other mistakes in there. I wasn't able to edit the title, however, which is still showing the wrong date of birth. Apologies if I'm breaking protocol. However, I feel the errors in the piece should be addressed.

Regards, David Worthington — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shwed220 (talk • contribs) 21:13, 31 October 2012
 * Thank you for pointing out the error and there has been no breach of protocol. People who are experts in particular fields are always welcome to edit. I can move the article to a different name for you, but before I do so can you please cite a source for the earlier date? Is it from one of your books or another source? I'm not familiar with the subject so I am reluctant to make the edit myself without confirmation of a citation to a published source. Regards. Road Wizard (talk) 22:28, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Charlotte Lee, Lady Baltimore
The page on Charlotte Lee, Lady Baltimore, erroneously says that Gen. Robert E. Lee was descended from her.--G Wainright (talk) 21:31, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I have removed the note on Robert Lee as it was unsourced and the details did not agree with the articles on Robert's family. Per the verifiability policy you are welcome to challenge or remove any unsourced information that you feel is wrong. Road Wizard (talk) 21:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Theodore T. Jones passed
11/6/2012 3 a.m. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.146.229.232 (talk) 15:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Pope Theodoros II of Alexandria
Hello, there is a little discussion at a new article Talk:Pope Theodoros II of Alexandria about the popes name. I stated "I think the name should not be based or our preferences, but reflect the way he is presented by sources. All the souses in the article refer to him as Tawadros II, so I think Theodoros is original research and the name should be as the sources give it: Tawadros II." I got a long answer that it is basically Wikipedia policy to translate peoples names. Are there guidelines on this? I find it odd that Wikipedia gives a translated name yet nearly all the news organizations give another [| google]. Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 13:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:Articles for Creation - Backlog Elimination Drive
<div style="border: 2px solid #484898; background: #FFF; background-color:#98FB98; padding: 1ex 1ex 1ex 1.5ex; margin: 0px 0px 1em 1em; font-size: 90%"> WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive WikiProject AFC is holding a one month long Backlog Elimination Drive! The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from October 22, 2012 – November 21, 2012.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive. There is a backlog of over 1000 articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!

There is currently an elimination drive at AFC, which reached some 1200 articles last month and direly needed addressing. We've fought it down to the 200-500 article level, but could still use some more help. At any given point easily half of the AFC articles are bios, so if you want to be out-front screening the quality of new bios, we have space for you!

The Drive is awarding some cool barnstars for participation, even as low as 5 articles reviewed, so your participation could really help chip away at the backlog. There is also the handy WikiProject Articles for creation/Helper script, no download required, you just turn it on in Preferences, which makes reviewing an article very quick, intuitive, and easy. I hope a few of you can come and help us out before the drive ends! MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:50, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Lord McAlpine
Request for a very experienced admin to edit Lord McAlpine article taking into account recent denial of rumors in the mainstream British press, e.g. BBC. Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 16:47, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Request to move Adolf Hitler's vegetarianism to Adolf Hitler's diet
Your comments would be appreciated at Talk:Adolf_Hitler's_vegetarianism. Nirvana2013 (talk) 19:20, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of John F. Harris


The article John F. Harris has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Subject of article is a Low Profile Individual and should be deleted per WP:BLP.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Cresix (talk) 23:29, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

dual player?
See Talk:John Bunyan (Kerry GAA) where the disambiguatory use of "dual player" is being discussed -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 07:08, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

R. S. Manohar
Typing 'Manohar' in the search box on the top right corner results in being redirected to the V. Manohar page. V. Manohar is a Kannada film personality. But the 'Manohar' results should also include R. S. Manohar, the famous Tamil actor of yore with a long and distinguished career in cinema and stage. Besides acting in movies, he had his own drama company and travelled to distant cities to stage memorable plays with spectacular visual and sound effects. There is a Wikipedia page already in existence for him. It needs to be linked to the search results. Ideally, searching for Manohar should bring up a Manohar page with all well-known people of that name on it. BeagleOwl (talk) 15:12, 14 November 2012 (UTC)BeagleOwl

CfD Proposal to delete Burial by place category
It has been proposed here to delete the category that links people to their place of burial. Note that the proposer is recommending the removal of the whole tree of categories, not just the the top level categories listed. Ephebi (talk) 15:36, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Edits of page Jean Antoine Petit-Senn
Hello all, the quotation attributed to the poet on this page is not his, but Epicuris's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lpstribling (talk • contribs) 03:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment / user conduct
Your attention is called to Requests for comment/Rhode Island Red.2 concerning the conduct of said user at the biography of Frank L. VanderSloot. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 21:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Mat Mathews jazz accordionist. I was a student of his. Article says he moved to Bergenfield, NJ. I remember it as Fairlawn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.57.204 (talk) 05:24, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Give Anne Newport Royall a fair, honest, and thorough Wiki page.
I just read the wiki page for Anne Newport Royall. The page is woefully and shamefully incomplete, and seems to be more a derogatory anti-Royall statement than a biography. And the page completely neglects to tell the readers that Royal was an anti-religion activist of sorts, which is the reason she was persecuted by various religious groups, including some powerful political alliances of religion. Her writing against religion as "a dangerous superstition" is the reason she was arrested on trumped up charges and not because she was a "public nuisance, a common brawler and a common scold" as wiki states and leaves unexplained, as if it must be true. The page also states, "She was derided as an eccentric scold, a virago, and a literary wild-cat from the backwoods." Again, she is slandered here without any explanation or details about Royall's anti-religious writings and the attempts by various religious persons and organizations to tarnish her good name, solely for being anti-religious. Royall wrote a great deal about crimes, past and present, committed by the religious in the name of religion. She was also highly critical of churches who sent missionaries into the Indian territories to convert native Americans to Christianity saying that Christianity was far more savage and barbaric than the so-called savages in the territories.

Regarding religion Royall said:

"Do they think we have forgotten how they [Christians] drenched England in blood, created a civil war - what they are in a fair way to do here - and, when they could no longer retain the power of killing there, came over to this country [U.S], and began it afresh--dipping their hands in the blood of the harmless, unresisting people? Do they think we have forgotten how they put innocent men, women, and children to death, in cool blood, under the pretense of witchcraft? ...children of ten years of age were put to death; young girls were stripped naked by God's people, the ministers, and the marks of witchcraft searched for on their bodies, even in the most private places, with the most indecent curiosity." - Royall, Anne Newport, Black Book, or A Continuation of Travels in the United States, 240-241, Washington Press, University of Pittsburgh Library System.

"When reason is cultivated and our minds enlightened by education, we can reject knavery, bigotry, and superstition." - Anne Newport Royall, Letters from Alabama, 1817-1822 (Birmingham: Univ.of Alabama Press, 1969), 176.

"May the arm of the first member of Congress who proposes a national religion drop powerless from his shoulder..." Royall, Black Book, 165. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.148.28 (talk) 19:26, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


 * We need some reliable sources to improve the article. If you know of any, please let us know on the article talk page. FurrySings (talk) 02:20, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Source of the name of Lamb Boulevard in Las Vegas, NV.
Back to: News Francis McCabe | ROAD WARRIOR Street-smart author digs up interesting facts about names •	 Enlarge Tools •	.

LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL

Download The App!

Posted: Jul. 5, 2009 | 10:00 p.m. Updated: Apr. 9, 2012 | 10:46 p.m. Ever wonder about the meaning of the street names in the Las Vegas Valley? ……………

Meanwhile, Lamb Boulevard may not be named for who you think. While there are many influential Lambs who have left their mark on Clark County -- including state Sen. Floyd Lamb, County Commissioner Darwin Lamb and Sheriff Ralph Lamb -- none are the reason for Lamb Boulevard's name. Instead it is named for Press Lamb, another member of the Lamb clan. The original road carried many different names, including Louise Road, Noble Lane, Goerman Lane, Mockingbird Lane and Marber Boulevard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.27.136.242 (talk) 20:47, 28 November 2012 (UTC) Plase add blind artist Michael Anthony Williams in your group under visaul arts for review and article placement.Uniquewanders (talk) 17:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Periyar E. V. Ramasamy
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy, an article that your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. AIR corn (talk) 12:58, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

The Name of Von Mirbach
Dear Anyone,

Most sources only had the Gotz Freiherr von Mirbach as a complete name. I questioned the unreal name of Erich Werner Siegfried Gotz Freiherr von Mirbach as it. The source which the questionable full name came from was from "Ritterkreuztraeger Die Kriegsmarine,1939-1945" by Manfred Dorr. I checked the von Mirbach family homepage and had the name Gotz Freiherr von Mirbach only! So I think Erich Werner Siegfried Gotz Freiherr von Mirbach name should be discarded. -- Edward L. Hsiao 206.125.65.156 (talk) 20:51, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Jessie Stephen
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Jessie Stephen. -- Trevj (talk) 12:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Disputed birthdate
What is the best way to deal with a bio's birthdate in the lead when it's disputed? Winsor McCay's birthdate has been given as 1867, 1869, and 26 September 1871.  C üRly T üRkey  <sup style="margin-left:1.5ex;">Talk <sub style="margin-left:-5ex;">Contribs 04:33, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Mack Reynolds
I have begun updating Mack Reynolds' page after working on his North Africa series. I am currently working on the biography section and plan to continue with his major themes and then move on to the bibliography. Thanks for any input! Drx (talk) 00:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Natalie Portman
I am a bit confused on her page, I've noticed a little edit war going on about information in the infobox, the insertion and deletion of (Partner(s) 	Benjamin Millepied (2009–2012)). I am not sure, but that clearly reads as the relationship has ended in 2012, and above it, it's still going. I find Spouse and Partner conflicting information. I had a look at the history of edits, and notice another article with the same problem. It's appears to be a conflict of information accross a few pages. Should there even be an end year if a partnership is still active? As if I can be miss-led, sure lots of other people will be too by reading what I see. Govvy (talk) 14:03, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It could be done more clearly (drawback of the infobox format), but it's pretty obvious it's just a change in status from "partner" to "married". <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREKphiler  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  18:05, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Adrian Schiller
I added a citation link to youtube on the page, just wanted to ask if it works okay for people outside of the UK. cheers. Govvy (talk) 22:28, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Correct Title of the Duchess of Cambridge
It is my belief that the correct title of Catherine Middleton is - HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - or HRH The Princess William.

Your article repeatedly refers to her as - Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. Is it not the case that this is only the correct format of a title - if the husband is dead i.e that of a Dowager Duchess?? (first name then title)

I see this mistake repeatedly in the press

Might I suggest you check this out and modify your page accordingly

78.150.174.39 (talk) 15:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Not sure, thought you had to be born in the Royal Family to be HRH, Govvy (talk) 15:41, 14 December 2012 (UTC)


 * According to the royal websites she is a HRH MilborneOne (talk) 14:02, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * In the United Kingdom, one is entitled to the style of Royal Highness if legitimate child of the sovereign or legitimate child of a legitimate son of the sovereign or married to a legitimate son of the sovereign or married to a legitimate son of a legitimate son of the sovereign. Catherine is, therefore, entitled to the style. The title of the article about her is "Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge" because it is a standard practice to mention the subject's given name. In historical context, "The Duchess of Cambridge" may also refer to Princess Augusta of Hesse-Kassel. Surtsicna (talk) 14:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Nostradamus
I have raised some concerns about Nostradamus on the article talk page. As Sandy Georgia kindly informs me that an FAR is premature, I'd appreciate some input on the talk page and some ideas on how to improve it first without delisting.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  13:59, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Living in an airport
Could someone go over List of people who have lived at airports and tell me if it conforms to BLP? I saw a niche for this article after reading The Terminal and its related articles and saw the other people. I have tried to replace refs where there have been dead links and tried to use more than one ref per person although this has not always been possible. I can still see a couple more people to add. Is there anything else I need to add to the list especially as this is not my area of expertise? Difficultly north (talk) 11:28, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Small Edit
In speaking of the film about the Maccabees,, the word "of" is missing between "the Biblical... (verb, I don't recall it)" & "the uprising." I think it should read "the Biblical account of the uprising."

Very well done article. Mr. Gibson is an adult among adolescents in his line of work, for the most part, and it is well he is compared to Brando. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.83.234 (talk) 16:47, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

B-class review
If somone has a chance, could an uninvolved editor please assess Robert Madgwick for C or B class? Thank you. Cla68 (talk) 06:48, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Request for deletion of page Kashif Abbas
Dear readers, this page voilates the quality and accuracy of Wikipedia contents. Contents here are composed with imaginary material/words that pretend the subject absolutely opposite to what it was. This article is a campaign to falsify the true Incident of Karbala. Karbala - The Major incident after departure of Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. is the incident occured when A REVOLUTION OF "NOT ACCEPTING EVIL" WAS LAUNCHED BY IMAM HUSSAIN A.S. ALONG WITH HIS FAMILY MEMBERS (S.A.) TO SAVE THE TRUE FACE OF ISLAM.

Now you know why? there are some people who pretend to be muslim but follow and priase black characters like Yazid (May God kEEP it in Hell for ever)

Strongly recommend to delete this page and Keep Wikipedia.org as source of pure knowledge..!92.98.165.177 (talk) 19:53, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Cecelia Lofton
Ms Lofton is cited in this newsprint of Dec 24 1922; 90 years ago today and I don't know how to add any info to Wikipedia. (As Miss Cissie Lofton)

It's in reference to "Cannabis" or "Marijuana" and drug charges as already stated in the biography.

The Ogden standard-examiner. (Ogden, Utah) 1920-current, December 24, 1922, The Standard - Examiner Sunday Feature Section, Page 4, Image 24 Image provided by University of Utah, Marriott Library

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85058393/1922-12-24/ed-1/seq-24/print/image_571x817_from_0%2C0_to_6537%2C9339/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by TotalLegalHaze (talk • contribs) 09:37, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Year-end 2012 notable deaths
It's time to look through the list of notable obituaries to see if we left anyone out or are still listing them as alive. Many or most of these people qualify for articles and most of the rest qualify to be mentioned in an article about a topic closely related to them.

Here's a USA-centric list put out by the Associated Press on December 19th: Final goodbye: Roll call of some who died in 2012 By By BERNARD McGHEE, Associated Press. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  20:24, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * (Discuss) – Ahmad Radhi → Ahmed Radhi – Ahmed is his correct first name (fifa, IFFHS, footballdatabase). Regards. --Fayçal.09 (talk) 11:09, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Paul Watson
An editor, who has previously claimed that primary sources are inappropriate, has completely removed a section at Paul Watson, justifying the removal because of a minor edit war (3 edits over 22 days that ended 6 days ago) over a couple of names in the article. However, some of the section is cited to secondary sources and only one word out of 182 in the section is related to the "edit war". There have previously been issues with this article, and a check of the content that was removed, by uninvolved editors would be greatly appreciated. There is a related discussion on the article's talk page at Talk:Paul Watson. --<font style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#fee72c 0em 0em 0.8em,gold -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#1D6B00 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;color:#000000">AussieLegend ( ✉ ) 08:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Good Article Nominee: Thomas Traherne
After undertaking a revision of the article, I've nominated Thomas Traherne for promotion to Good Articles. It is under this WikiProject and I invite anyone to take a look. If you're interested in reviewing, take a look at the article's talk page or WP:GAN. Thanks for your time. --ColonelHenry (talk) 00:49, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Article on Ogier of Savoy
Bonjour, The article refers to "Bernarde de Cevins, heiress of a large patrimony in the Tarentaise (and not Tarntaise as initially written), and a widow of Emeric de Montfalcon, who died after 1364.[2] By 1376 Bernarde had remarried a second time to Antelme de Miolans. She had no children by Ogier". Is it correct to say that she "remarried a second time"; isnt it her third marriage since it seems she married first to Emeric de Montfalcon than to Ogier de Savoy before marrying (x3)Antelme de Miolans? Thank you for your information on the topic. OlivierBruet (talk) 08:37, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Arthur Worsley
Should Arthur Worsley have an infobox? Please discuss on its talk page. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:06, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Category:Incorrectly_tagged_WikiProject_Biography_articles
Question about a few of the cases where the template puts pages into this category. I'm working on clearing the Category and while a page like User talk:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/Rick Schieke belongs in the category, I'm a little more hesitant about a page like Wikipedia talk:Article Incubator/Cassie Sumner or Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jorge Manuel Miranda Dias. However the ones that have me really confused are ones like Talk:Nitrozac. I finally figured out that the template objects to being placed on the talk page for a redirect, Nitrozac redirects to The Joy of Tech.

I'm willing to fix all of these, but what should I use for the explanation for the changes on pages like Talk:Nitrozac?Naraht (talk) 15:09, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Review and Comment on AfD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Walter_Greason
Please weigh in on the article (WP:AVOIDCOI original editor). Consider my rebuttal to initial objections, and note that the first nom was posted less than 24 hours after the article was approved by another editor, long before its current level of completion.Griffin Walsh (talk) 21:09, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Zamor
Some wacky things have been going on at Zamor. This edit completely changed the article topic from the previous bio of a figure involved in the French Revolution to a BLP. Because it's a BLP, I was hoping someone here might take a look, because I don't usually work on BLPs. Also, my impression is that the new-article title to which the French revolutionary was moved is now incorrect: I believe this figure was given what was once known as a "Christian" name of Louis Benoît, but that Zamor was either the name he was born with, or the name he went by. I'm not sure it's correct to call him Louis Benoît Zamor, as if it were one name. Anyway, procedurally this seems a mess. Cynwolfe (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've reverted, because we already have Zamor (artist). There was also a cut&paste move, which I've redirected. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:10, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I now realize there's more to this, having seen the tags at the BLP Zamor (artist) and glancing at its edit history. Cynwolfe (talk) 03:34, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Philip Coppens
Do not delete his article!!!! At least his history is accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.125.109.106 (talk) 01:18, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

RFC: List of Puerto Ricans
We are trying to determine if List of Puerto Ricans should be split or not, and if split, how should we split it. The article is over 100 kB big in wikitext alone, and includes several pictures as well when rendered in HTML. Please state your opinion at Talk:List of Puerto Ricans. &mdash;Ahnoneemoos (talk) 05:43, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Review article of the various online biographical dictionaries
Came across this today, a review covering the major online Dictionaries of National Biography, and in particular this closing remark:


 * It has also to be admitted that some of the biographies on Wikipedia are as good, or better, and often longer, more transparent, and better-referenced, than the equivalent in their national dictionary, and should assuredly be read alongside them.

Perhaps of some interest! Andrew Gray (talk) 13:31, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Lynette Nusbacher
There is a BLP sourcing dispute which I have attempted to summarize at Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. Insomesia (talk) 11:33, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Priyanka Chopra peer review
Priyanka Chopra peer review underway here: Peer review/Priyanka Chopra/archive1. Want to apply for FAC soon. BollyJeff &#124;  talk  17:51, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Lea Salonga
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Lea Salonga. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 20:03, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Sub-dividing categories for recipients of British honours
Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:UK Wikipedians' notice board. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:25, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Rosalie Allen
I used to go to the Rosalie Allen Record Shop in midtown NYC in the late 40's or early 50's Your article  says the 1960's. She may have had one then too., I remember her shop to be in a brownstone building at the below street level. Walked down a few steps. Anybody remember this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.95.163 (talk) 02:06, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Karl Pilkington
Just a heads up that an editor who puts "educated" in sarcastic quotes in this article seems determined to do it all night. Britmax (talk) 21:27, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Cedric Beust
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Cedric Beust, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks,  Tyrol5   [Talk]  01:00, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Linking surnames only
On this edit to Razzle (musician) the surname of Dingley alone was repeatedly added by User:Andy Dingley. It is odd and against convention to do this. Can someone have a look at it? BTW, Andy seems to have it in for me. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 03:09, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree its far from customary. We don't link to Buffet (surname) in Warren Buffet's bio, or Obama (surname) in Barack Obama's. However, I am aware that Chinese names are sometimes linked, usually to disambiguate a surname to its actual Chinese character. Dingley doesn't need to be disambiguated or glossed. --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 03:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Sonya Thomas
Dear editors, What do yall think about her? Do some of you guys have disagreements? if so, like what?98.201.36.47 (talk) 16:07, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you are referring to Sonya Thomas personally, please note that Wikipedia's talk pages are not forums for discussion of the subjects of articles, but rather they are for the purpose for discussing improvements to the articles. If you have concerns about the quality of the article, please discuss them at Talk:Sonya Thomas. Thanks.--JayJasper (talk) 21:38, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Laura Secord FAC
I've just nominated the Laura Secord article as a Featured Article Candidate. Any feedback or other input on the nomination would be much appreciate. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Amy Dumas
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Amy Dumas, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks,  Tyrol5   [Talk]  02:44, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Women's History Month is in March
Hi everyone at WikiProject Biography!

Women's history month is around the corner, in March, and we're planning the second WikiWomen's History Month.

This event, which is organized by volunteers from the WikiWomen's Collaborative, supports improving coverage about women's history during the month of March. Events take place both offline and online. We are encouraging WikiProjects to focus on women's history related to their subject for the month of March. Ideas include:
 * Improving biographies about women

We hope you'll participate! You can list your your project focus here, and also help improve our to-do list. Thank you for all you do for Wikipedia! SarahStierch (talk) 20:34, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Electronic Sports
I have proposed a new WikiProject focussing on electronic sports related articles. Many of these articles are about professional gamers and would therefore also fall under WikiProject Biography. If you are interested in joining the discussion of this proposal, please do so at WikiProject Council/Proposals/Electronic Sports. <span style="text-shadow:#404 0.2em 0.2em 0.8em;font-family:Franklin Gothic Book, Calibri">—Entropy (talk) 22:21, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Peter Tosh
I recently went on a trip to Jamaica. On one of our tours, our driver stopped by the Peter Tosh Memorial. None of us had heard of him, but he told us this story. Peter Tosh had started to get noticed in his music career. During his rise, he was riding around with some friends, got pulled over, and had guns in the vehicle. This is a serious offense in Jamaica. One of his comrades told him that he would take the punishment, as Peter Tosh was destined for stardom. The friend asked only that Peter please help take care of his family while he was incarcerated. Peter agreed, and the friend went to prison for many years. During this time, Peter got rich and famous, and did not follow through with his agreement to help support the friends family. When the man got out of prison, his wife had remarried and moved away with his children, as she had no support. He then sought out Peter Tosh, and murdered him in revenge. He was very.......adamant about the fact that the government had memorialized a person who had wronged another, and that the locals were not is support of it, as they new the bad thing he had done.

72.35.98.170 (talk) 07:04, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

John McNulty incorrectly linked
When clicking on the Arizona Cardinals 2009 season quarterbacks coach John McNulty, it links to a newspaper man who died in the 1800s. Same name, wrong person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.66.5 (talk) 18:56, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Appears there's no page for Coach McNulty. Care to create one? Fixed (including hatnote at the journo's page), so much as it can be. <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREKphiler  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  08:58, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Tribute and memorial material
I'm presently involved in a discussion with the editors who're working on Lewis Marnell, a professional skateboarder who recently died. At this writing, the article contains a rather long Death of Lewis Marnell section, including a number of tribute quotes. This strikes me as excessive and non-encyclopedic; in general, my inclination is to cut material like that altogether, or to pare it drastically. However, that may be my personal reaction to it, and not necessarily consistent with WP policy and consensus.

Have the members of this WikiProject discussed this matter, and has any consensus been reached? This is not the first time that I've encountered a biographical article that (in my view, at least) was on the verge of turning into a tribute page. I'd appreciate it very much if someone from this WikiProject could point me to a discussion in which consensus appeared to be reached, or to a guideline concerning the matter. Thanks. Ammodramus (talk) 05:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Rod(ney) Amateau
I seem to remember that Rod Amateau also directed the George Burns and Gracie Allen show. I also believe that his original last name was AMADO, and that his father was a filmmaker in Hollywood of B movies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.215.238 (talk) 16:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Anita Sarkeesian
You are invited to join the discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:11, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Copyright concerns related to your project
This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located here.

All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:53, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * To the above template, I just wanted to add that this one is relatively brief, but so far everything I've checked has been copied from the ODNB. People who have access to that source would be very much appreciated to help check this content! --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:53, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Leo Komarov
Input is required at that article's talkpage, concerning its infobox content. GoodDay (talk) 23:31, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Andrew Bromberg
You are invited to join the discussion at Articles for deletion/Andrew Bromberg. -- Trevj (talk) 13:35, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Davy Crockett
I'm posting this here in hopes this project has enough members to keep a long-term eye on Davy Crockett. I'm not sure at this point it would qualify for semi-protection, but I sure wish it did. I've recently done a number of edits on the article, and it could stand to be improved even more. But what struck me about the article is how much total junk was in the article, sitting there for years unchallenged, a large chunk of which has been dropped in years ago by an IP editor. The article has been in bad shape for a long time. Some of it has appeared to me to be deliberate hanky-panky. And some of it looks to be good faith edits by persons with limited knowledge of the subject matter. The legend aside, this man was a United States Congressman. It needs watchful eyes to make sure it doesn't disintegrate again. And in an ideal world, such a public figure would merit some dignity in a Wikipedia article. I think it might take some re-working to raise it up to the level of FA or GA, but I'm always hopeful. — Maile (talk) 16:18, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed edits for Robert B. Pamplin, Jr.
My name is Alvaro, and I work for Robert B. Pamplin, Jr. I have worked to develop an expanded biography for him according to Wikipedia’s policies and standards. My goal is to provide factual, well cited information. I have posted a draft of the article in my sandbox; I would appreciate any feedback or input. -Alvarofontan (talk) 22:19, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

James DePreist
The article for James DePreist will be receiving a lot of traffic in the near future due to his death. The article needs work, as much of the text has been pulled from his Allmusic and NEA biographies. It appears to be incomplete and needs expanding, re-wording, sourcing, etc. Any assistance improving this article would be much appreciated. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:52, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

RfC for Juan Manuel de Rosas: please help!
A Request for Comment has been made regarding Juan Manuel de Rosas, who governed the Argentine Confederation from 1829 until 1852. The discussion is on this link. Please take your time to comment. --Lecen (talk) 00:56, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Is this still going on?--Amadscientist (talk) 02:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Nationality pipes
Hopefully a simple question. Many of the bio articles that I come across pipe the nationality link, but there doesn't appear to be a consensus on what they pipe to. For example, if an opening sentence reads "x is an English y", sometimes English pipes to England and sometimes it pipes to English people. I've seen this across a number of different nationalities, I just use English as an example. Is there a an established wikipedia preference? <font color="#339900">da <font color="#009900">nn <font color="#006600">o _<font color="#336633">u <font color="#003300">k 19:36, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Michael Jackson known as "the King of Pop"
Hello, everyone. Opinions are needed on this matter, especially regarding whether or not the fact that Michael Jackson is known as "the King of Pop" should be mentioned in the lead of the Wikipedia article about him. For background on the current discussion, see this discussion. And for the current discussion, see Talk:Michael Jackson. Flyer22 (talk) 21:10, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Indira Gandhi
Lately an editor called Cliniic has been adding material to this article. Some of it seems to me to be more suited to an article on Indian politics and some is unsourced. Today this editor has changed the alma mater to Oxford (and although she did go to Oxford I think there was some complication that stopped us from describing it so). This editor also refers to her as "Miss Indira" and seems to be adding material withoout further sourcing. This may need close watching. Britmax (talk) 00:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Angelique du Coudray
From Angelique du Coudray's Wikipedia page: "She is estimated to have trained more than 5,000 women..."

Du Coudray taught about 10,000 women, according to Nina Rattner Gelbart's The King's Midwife.

Also, if du Coudray was commissioned by France's King Louis XV (again, according to Nina Rattner Gelbart's The King's Midwife), how is it possible that du Coudray "delivered the future King Louis XIII"?

I would like to make these clarifications/edits on Angelique du Coudray's Wikipedia page, as well as add more information about her struggles against surgeons (men), her travels around France, and the petition she signed in Paris, France as a young midwife. I would also like to place more emphasis on how important the title of being the "King's servant" was for du Coudray and how that connection to King Louis XV changed throughout du Coudray's lifetime.

Kathryn 21:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kathrynwolfson (talk • contribs)

RfC - FactCheck.org citation for inclusion in John Kerry Military Service Controversy
As an article of interest in this wikiproject, opinions from project participants are solicited for this RfC. Thanks. JakeInJoisey (talk) 18:21, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Merge discussion for John Allen Muhammad
An article that you have been involved in editing, John Allen Muhammad, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 14:46, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Philip Ludwell
A discussion is underway at talk:Philip Ludwell about whether Ludwell or his son, Philip Ludwell, Jr., was elected Speaker of the Virginia House of Burgesses in 1695. Two reliable sources contradict each other on this, and we are looking for independent references. Anyone with access to sources on 17th-century Virginia is invited to join the discussion. Rklear (talk) 19:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Oscar Pistorius
This is currently a Good Article. Due to recent events, there have been frequent editings lately. Also, the Talk:Oscar Pistorius has addressed concerns about its status. Per WP:GAR, I should notify relevant Projects and contributors before I request a reassessment. --George Ho (talk) 07:51, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

RFC: Proposed renaming of Prisoner X article
An editor has proposed renaming the Prisoner X article to Ben Zygier (currently a redirect). Please comment on the proposed move at this RFC. - Evad37 (talk) 02:14, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Help avoiding an edit war at Bill Clinton
Can someone come comment at Talk:Bill_Clinton or edit the page directly.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:19, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Opinions needed on tennis rivalry articles
There is a debate going on at Articles for deletion/Federer–Murray rivalry about there being too many or too few tennis rivalry stand-alone articles. Regardless of views, come give us a better cross-section of the wikipedia editor pool so we can get a better feel on how to proceed with the creation of these articles in the future. I figure this is peripherally of interest to biography since we have 1000's of player bios, and rivalry pages are a bit of a highlight meshing of two biography pages. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:11, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Joseph Werner
RE: Joseph Werner

There was limited information on this page and no references. I added information about his son of the same name, with citation. Should this be started as a new Bibliographical page?

Also - tried to talk on the Talk:Joseph Werner page however it didnt seem to give me and option to do this? Lisafoster8 (talk) 10:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Click on Talk:Joseph Werner, and then click either the "edit this page" or "new section" tab. One will allow you to edit the full talk page; the other will let you start a new titled section for discussion. Rklear (talk) 16:39, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Eagles
The usage of is up for discussion, see talk:Eagles (band) -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:14, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Phillips 2012 movie
Just wanted to get started on adding in Goats to Phillips acting history. I'm very new to this site (and omg I'm on it everyday already lol) so i don't want to sign up quite yet. Just watched Goats, great great movie. Thanks for listening! Lauren Bishop — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.202.253.49 (talk) 04:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Updates to Brian Lamb's article - help needed
Hi there, I've left a request over on the Talk page for Brian Lamb's article asking for some help getting the article up-to-date since his retirement last year. Would anyone from this WikiProject be able to lend a hand? I'm working with the C-SPAN communications team, so I'd prefer not to edit the article myself in order to avoid potential COI issues. There's just a few edits needed, plus the addition of a new citation. Full details are here. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 22:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Jose Antonio Vargas
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Jose Antonio Vargas. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:27, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Chandra Levy
You are invited to join in discussion on renaming the article Chandra Levy. There is no rush, but you can improve consensus. With regards! --George Ho (talk) 08:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

George Herriman FAC
I've nominated the George Herriman article for FAC, with the hope of having it appear as Today's Featured Article on 13 October 2013, which is the 100th anniversary of his signature work, Krazy Kat. Any attention, feedback, and support would be greatly appreciated. Curly Turkey (gobble) 16:36, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Manuel of Style input required
PLEASE ladies & gentlemen, we need input at the Manuel of Style discusson-in-question. GoodDay (talk) 01:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

RFC-birth date format conformity when used to disambigutate
Please come discuss at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(people).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:52, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

RfCs on Vital articles and Vital articles/Expanded
Two RfCs concerning, among other things, the number of biographies in this vital articles lists and which biographies they should be, are active at Wikipedia talk:Vital articles and Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Expanded p  b  p  01:02, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

lil reese is cool — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.114.229.60 (talk) 16:16, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

improving of a biographical page, need some help, please?
Hello everybody,

I'm a bit unexperienced about wikipedia. I was asking myself if someone could help me improving a biographical page I started. It's about the page Çiğdem y Mirol. I understand the page like this now is not a really good one. But at the same time I can't understand so well how to make it better. I wanted to put a photo of the person of who the biography is about. Could someone help me to make it better?

Thanx already,

greetings,

Hermes Verhaegen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hermes.verhaegen (talk • contribs) 14:45, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Request for deletion of page Walter Balmer
Hallo everybody, I would be grateful if someone could delete the current article Walter Balmer. The page seems to have been started incorrectly and is now only a redirection to Billy Balmer. If deleted then I would be able to add User:Huligan0/Walter Balmer. Thanks for any feedback. Greetings--Huligan0 (talk) 18:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Bret Gilliam
I'm about to remove a substantial amount of unsourced puffery from Bret Gilliam, and I expect to be reverted by an IP who is related to the subject. I have no intention of edit-warring, so my only recourse is to appeal to members of this project who may be willing to offer a third opinion at Talk:Bret Gilliam. Any extra eyes would be appreciated. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 17:46, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Hideki Tōjō
Hideki Tōjō has been proposed to be renamed, see talk:Hideki Tōjō -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Inaccurate link
In the filmography for Jason Gray-Stanford, a movie for 2008 is listed as "Puppy Love". When clicked on, you are taken to an erroneous site, which is a generic definition for puppy love, not to the site for the movie.

originalsbyterry — Preceding unsigned comment added by Originalsbyterry (talk • contribs) 22:08, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * You could just have redlinked it to this. <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREKphiler  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  23:14, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Edmund Lowe was Gay or Bisexual
I am concerned that Gay celebrities are being censored by Wikipedia. This problem needs to be addressed. In Lillian Faderman and Stuart Timmons's 2006 book Gay LA, Lowe and his wife Lilyan Tashman are described as a "lavender couple" who married to hide their true sexual orientations. Lowe married a costume designer after Tashman's death, but this does not mean he did not desire men. In that era, many if not most Gay men married and led double lives. We cannot judge Gay identity of the past by today's standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.209.40.125 (talk) 19:58, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Michael J. Saylor
Last week I posted a request on the discussion page for Michael J. Saylor, seeking feedback on a possible new version of the article. The page itself currently carries a COI warning tag—appropriately so—and I have been engaged by Mr. Saylor's company to see if I can fix this. I believe a complete rewrite is necessary to address the article's problems, and I'd like to make it a high-quality article besides. There's certainly enough information out there to write one—which is what I believe I've done.

Therefore, I have prepared a new version that I think is neutral, encyclopedic, and so on. However, because I have a paid COI myself, I don't wish to edit directly. Instead, I'd like to see if I can find an editor interested in reviewing it, offering feedback, and possibly moving it over. This proposed a draft of the article is also linked on the article's Talk page, and it's probably best to keep the discussion over there, although I'll watch this page as I am watching that one. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 23:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Naming conventions (clergy)
WP:Naming conventions (clergy) has been requested to be renamed, see WT:Naming conventions (clergy) -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 11:21, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello please help to revise my contributions to the page!!
Hi I have made some changes to the original "Zhang Jilong" page by correcting some translation errors caused by machine translation and also have added some things in reference to the same page in Chinese that weren't present in the English article at first. There may be grammar and sentence errors in my changes, I would be extremely grateful if it could be fixed. Also regarding information that raise doubts, it would be great if I could be notified. Thanks so much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jenniferyujuanzi (talk • contribs) 02:29, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

John Hare (actor) referenced by A. C. Doyle
John Hare is referenced by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in the first of "The Strand Magazine" Sherlock Holmes short stories "A Scandal in Bohemia". Dr. Watson, wanting to show how effectively Holmes disguised himself as a clergyman pronounces that only "...Mr. John Hare alone could have equaled..". --D801live (talk) 23:59, 23 March 2013 (UTC)d801live

Florence Baker
I came across this diff referring to a "Sass Flóra". I think this means Lady Florence Baker, wife of the Samuel Baker already mentioned in the article. See Sass Flóra (translation).

What is odd is that this woman has an article on the Hungarian, Romanian, German and French Wikipedias, but not the English one. Can anyone think why this might be? She does have a part of a section on Samuel Baker.

Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Yaris678 (talk) 18:18, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Aerospace biography task force
Shouldn't WP:WikiProject Aviation/Aerospace biography task force be also signed on to the WPBIO banner, such as how WP:WikiProject Biography/Military is signed onto and  ? It would be added as -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 02:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Untitled
Re. the death of Federico II of Mantua -- How can someone inherit syphilis from their father?? 69.211.59.183 (talk) 09:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC)Caroline

Infobox engineer
Infobox engineer has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

google-doodle: legit info or trivia?
We're having a discussion at Talk:Cesar Chavez to determine if google-doodle is a legitimate encyclopedic entry or simply trivia that doesn't belong. Maybe I'm in the minority in this but I wanted to make sure by informing others of the discussion. I removed this diff of the google-doodle entry, but the discussion is at Talk:Cesar Chavez. The editor claims that many articles have this type of entry, but the question is "should they?" Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:51, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

New article created: Neville Page
I've created the new article, Neville Page. Feel free to improve or discuss at Talk:Neville Page. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 04:27, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Neville Page

Maria Pasquinelli
I received a rather insistent message at OTRS asserting that Maria Pasquinelli is alive and just celebrated her 100th birthday. I don't know Italian, so I can't check most sources. I'm doing my due diligence asking here. Andrew327 02:49, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

She is still alive, as the Italian link I added (with a photo of her on her 100th birtday) confirms.195.158.72.207 (talk) 17:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Review of new Ping Fu draft
Hi, as some of you watching this page may know, Ping Fu's article has seen a lot of activity over the last couple of months relating to press coverage of her memoir and subsequent online attack. I was asked by Geomagic (the company founded by Ping Fu) to look at the article, check that the facts are correct and write an updated version based on reliable sources. On behalf of the company, I've carefully gone through the sources and written a new draft based on information that I was able to verify and that was confirmed as correct by Ping and her team.

I'd like to ask editors from this WikiProject, and those who've been productive in protecting and improving the article (I'll invite them to this page), to review the draft and use information from it or take the whole draft live, as they find appropriate. Here's the link to the draft: User:16912_Rhiannon/Ping_Fu

A few notes about issues with the current article:


 * As multiple editors have worked on the current article, some of the sourcing has become mixed up so that cited sources don't support the information. For instance the Inc. magazine article cited to support that Ping "attended study sessions of Mao's Little Red Book led by Red Guards, performed mandatory military service, and worked on farms and in factories" does not actually include this information.
 * The first two sections of the article rely on just two sources: Bend, Not Break and the aforementioned Inc. magazine article.
 * Some details are included without any citation, including a sentence noting that: "Fu graduated with an MS from UIUC May 1990 and her advisor was Jane Liu."
 * The awards section is a list, rather than prose as MOS recommends, and some of the awards are cited only to press releases from Geomagic.

With my draft, I've aimed to address the above issues but also focus on the issue of how to deal with facts that have been disputed and have conflicting references. Ultimately, I think it's best to reduce the detail on Ping's early life and education, where sources are not in agreement and some facts have been called into question. The draft I've written offers a pared down version of the information currently in the article regarding Ping's early life and first years in the U.S., with more robust sourcing. In particular, where I've used Bend, Not Break, I've cited to specific page numbers for more clarity to readers about where the information comes from.

Any constructive feedback is welcome, as are productive edits to the draft. Please ask any questions here or the Talk page of the draft. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 14:17, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, but given the issues that surround this article, I suggest posting at WP:BLPN and WP:COIN, asking editors from those areas to comment here. GiantSnowman 14:59, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems clean, with good balance. Fearofreprisal (talk) 17:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks both of you, it's great to get your feedback. Snowman, thanks for the advice, I'll go to WP:BLPN and WP:COIN next to see if folks there would mind taking a look. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 21:28, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see any big problems, but I'm going to post some comments about the Memoir section, at the article talk page, User_talk:16912_Rhiannon/Ping_Fu. Fearofreprisal (talk) 00:24, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Rhiannon. Thanks for your effort. I do have one serious objection. By using personal interaction with Ms Ping Fu, you have introduced original research. If Ms Ping Fu wishes to offer updates (including conflict resolution) on her versions of events, she should do that through public statements. Only after public statements are made may the wiki article use that content. Majiaerhao (talk) 11:44, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Majiaerhao, thanks for your comment. I'd like to clarify that all the information in the draft is from reliable sources, I just checked with Ping and her team that the details from the source was correct. I've not included anything in the draft that isn't cited to a reliable source. 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 13:18, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi there. First of all, “reliable source” means different things in different contexts. When it comes to Ms Ping Fu's experiences in China, the “reliable sources” referenced here are only reliable insofar as describing what Ms Ping Fu herself said to have happened to her.
 * Secondly, the problem of orginal research arises when there are conflicts between sources. Deciding what to include and what not include on the wiki article should not be influenced by original research. For example, over the years, Ms Ping Fu has told an evolving series of stories about the infanticide research she allegedly conducted for her college thesis. The source of these varying claims is Ms Ping Fu herself. If Ms Ping Fu thinks there exists a coherent story about the infanticide research, its impact and her subsequent persecution that has yet to be articulated, she should make a detailed public statement about it. Until then, if the Wiki article includes Ms Ping Fu's claims of one child policy research, these conflicts should not be omitted.
 * WP:Conflicting_sources
 * Do not remove the conflicting sources just because they contradict the current sources.
 * Do not choose which one is "true" and discard the others as incorrect.
 * Do not cite (the lack of) official announcements by the subject of the article or people related to it as a reason why a source is unreliable.
 * Majiaerhao (talk) 00:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Majiaerhao: You spent the month of March posting comments on the Ping Fu Talk page, telling everyone how wrong it was, but not actually contributing anything towards the article. If you want to contribute, then do so. Fearofreprisal (talk) 00:45, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought it's nice for us to exchange ideas on the talk page? If people find the points I make reasonable, then that's good enough a small progress for me. Would you like to substantively respond to the points I made? Or do you just prefer changing the subject? Majiaerhao (talk) 03:22, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Majiaerhao: Substantively respond to the points you made? You didn't really make any points, other than to talk in general terms about WP:RS, WP:OR, and WP:Conflicting Sources. Maybe you should go to User talk:16912 Rhiannon/Ping Fu and provide some detail there. This is not really the place for detailed discussion about the article. Fearofreprisal (talk) 04:38, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

"Frank Burns"
The usage of is under discussion, see talk:Frank Burns (disambiguation) -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 13:07, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Adrian Dix needs semi-protect or full-protect
This is my latest reversion of highly POV content being added to this article repeatedly by IP address users.....in the time it took me to write a similar post on WP:CANTALK the same IP user (64.x.x.x) re-inserted the same copy, and similar have been tried from various IP users/addresses in the last week or two. Dix is the leader of the New Democratic Party in British Columbia, which is facing an election he is anticipated to bury the current government when the day comes; the re-inserted material is a standard talking-point of the BC Liberal Party spin machine and is meant as defamatory and all such content added has been tainted by POV, even when cited.Skookum1 (talk) 02:51, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Suggestions for Pete Snyder
I'd like to recommend a few updates and improvements to the article Pete Snyder. He's formerly my boss, and I've contributed to his current political campaign, so I feel like I shouldn't be editing the page directly. I've posted a note about two suggestions, along with prepared markup language, on the article's Talk page. Anyone here willing to help out? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 14:44, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:56, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Possible page move
Today I came across this article John Waters (1934 Academy Award winner). The qualifier seems rather clunky to me. I'm not sure whether it is a correct use of the naming conventions but I would have thought that "John Waters (born 1893)" would be the more appropriate title for the article. I wanted to get feedback from the members of this project before attempting any move. Thanks ahead of time for your input. MarnetteD | Talk 19:12, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I prefer the use of the man's notability to the year he was born. Seems a lot clearer to me. But I also think this discussion belongs on his talk page, with maybe a RFC somewhere else.GeorgeLouis (talk) 03:07, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response. I will do as you advise but I am not sure how much response we get as it looks like only one other active editor has the page on their watchlist. MarnetteD | Talk 22:03, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Colmar
Colmar was never in the Lorraine duchy, it was always part of Alsace! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.240.248 (talk) 00:39, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

£20 bounty on Linvoy Primus
If anyone fancies the challenge of getting Linvoy Primus to FA, I have placed a £20 bounty towards Wikimedia foundation if it happens. There will be the possibility of the money going through, anyway, if it turns out that there just isn't enough information out there to get his article there. It is a GA at the moment and not much has changed since that GA status was confirmed, given that it went through around about the time he retired.

Leave a message on my talk page if you're up for the challenge. Spiderone 09:26, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Jürgen Ehlers FAC
I've just put up Jürgen Ehlers as an FA candidate. Ehlers was a theoretical physicist specializing in Einstein's theories of relativity. Any contributions to the candidacy discussion welcome here. Markus Pössel (talk) 11:09, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Article titles for persons from the Tudor period
Could editors involved with this project please have a look at these two page move requests, and. Wikipedia policy doesn't prohibit article titles disambiguated by date of death, and in some cases, such disambiguation seems warranted, particularly with respect to people from the Tudor period who wore many occupational 'hats' during their lifetimes and whom it's very difficult to classify accurately under an alleged 'profession'. Thanks for your help. NinaGreen (talk) 20:47, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

John Dee
I feel that John Dee has problems that make it no longer worthy of FA status. Please see discussion here. If these problems are not addressed, I will take the article to WP:FAR. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 23:00, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

photo? Jack Whicher or William Saville-Kent
The photo appears the same... Jack Whicher or William Saville-Kent — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.60.130.219 (talk) 00:11, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Mallory Hagan copyedit request
The reviewer at Talk:Mallory Hagan/GA1 suggested that I request a copyedit.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

RFC-birth date format conformity when used to disambiguate
I have closed my own discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people). Please feel free to take any action necessary to modify the closure of my own discussion to make it appear more Kosher.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:59, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Full names
A person's full name is mentioned in the opening of a biography. Since the lead of an article is supposed to summarize the rest of the article, should the name be repeated later in the article like it is in George W. Bush or should the early life section of the article use only the last name, like in Nikita Khrushchev. Interestingly, Nikita Khrushchev is a featured article, and at times it alternates between just calling him Nikita and using his first and last name, which doesn't seem appropriate at all. Ryan Vesey 16:15, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Look at WP:FULLNAME and WP:SURNAME. You're right, as you describe it the article is wrong. Revent (talk)

Deaths in... articles
I'm sure there's a good reason, but why do the articles Deaths in 2002, Deaths in 1997, etc. only start in 1996? -- Ypnypn (talk) 22:13, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

The good reason is probably that nobody has fixed it. :) Revent (talk) 04:07, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Reference on Laura Howard's entry (Cully on 'Midsomer Murders)
In regards to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Howard

Hi folks,

Maybe it's just Iron and Opera being silly but I can't figure out how to "talk" about this at the article's own area. Is it something to do with it being a stub or a Project? The page where I would have talked is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Laura_Howard

My comment is that regardless of whether the website referenced in the article (midsomermurders.net) used to be active and useful, it now appears to be an advertising site (possibly click-pay) and doesn't detail the information it supposedly references.

Something should be done about it but I also can't seem to gain access to edit it so I'm handballing to people with more authority and experience.

Mathsgirl (talk) 17:22, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't know why it isn't working, but I've copied your comment to that talk page. :) Revent (talk) 03:30, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Aristotelian Society
Hi, I've created and populated a category for the presidents of the Aristotelian Society, referring to the links in the list on that page as a 'source'. The list itself isn't sourced (but the Soc. website is in 'External Links', and /is/ the obvious source) and a lot of the articles are stubs that don't mention the Society, or don't source the statement that they were a president. This is bad. 8(

I'm starting a thread about this at WikiProject_Organizations#Aristotelian_Society. Revent (talk) 03:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Etymology/Name
For individual sections in a biographical article regarding a person's name, should the heading be "Etymology" or "Name"? I am unclear as to this. Thanks! Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 08:04, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Connection between notable people
In the light of this ongoing debate regarding a connection between basketball player Jason Collins and actor Jason Segel, I was wondering if there are any established guidelines on Wikipedia on how to handle this topic, which is essentially:
 * Notable person A is connected to notable person B, thru something unrelated to their other biography

For instance, two people being classmates in high school or college. Examples: Has there any sort of standard been established on whether we include these kinds of information, or do we exclude it per WP:HTRIV? --bender235 (talk) 17:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * wrestler/actor Dwayne Johnson played college football with Warren Sapp, among others
 * MLB's Clayton Kershaw played high school baseball with Detroit Lions quarterback Matt Stafford
 * actor John Goodman attended university with fellow actress Kathleen Turner

VisualEditor is coming
The WP:VisualEditor is designed to let people edit without needing to learn wikitext syntax. The articles will look (nearly) the same in the new edit "window" as when you read them (aka WYSIWYG), and changes will show up as you type them, very much like writing a document in a modern word processor. The devs currently expect to deploy the VisualEditor as the new site-wide default editing system in early July 2013.

About 2,000 editors have tried out this early test version so far, and feedback overall has been positive. Right now, the VisualEditor is available only to registered users who opt-in, and it's a bit slow and limited in features. You can do all the basic things like writing or changing sentences, creating or changing section headings, and editing simple bulleted lists. It currently can't either add or remove templates (like fact tags), ref tags, images, categories, or tables (and it will not be turned on for new users until common reference styles and citation templates are supported). These more complex features are being worked on, and the code will be updated as things are worked out. Also, right now you can only use it for articles and user pages. When it's deployed in July, the old editor will still be available and, in fact, the old edit window will be the only option for talk pages (I believe that WP:Notifications (aka Echo) is ultimately supposed to deal with talk pages).

The developers are asking editors like you to join the alpha testing for the VisualEditor. Please go to Special:Preferences and tick the box at the end of the page, where it says "Enable VisualEditor (only in the main namespace and the User namespace)". Save the preferences, and then try fixing a few typos or copyediting a few articles by using the new "Edit" tab instead of the section [Edit] buttons or the old editing window (which will still be present and still work for you, but which will be renamed "Edit source"). Fix a typo or make some changes, and then click the 'save and review' button (at the top of the page). See what works and what doesn't. We really need people who will try this out on 10 or 15 pages and then leave a note VisualEditor/Feedback about their experiences, especially if something mission-critical isn't working and doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar.

Also, if any of you are involved in template maintenance or documentation about how to edit pages, the VisualEditor will require some extra attention. The devs want to incorporate things like citation templates directly into the editor, which means that they need to know what information goes in which fields. Obviously, the screenshots and instructions for basic editing will need to be completely updated. The old edit window is not going away, so help pages will likely need to cover both the old and the new.

If you have questions and can't find a better place to ask them, then please feel free to leave a message on my user talk page, and perhaps together we'll be able to figure it out. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:01, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Correction: Talk pages are being replaced by Flow, not by Notifications/Echo.  This may happen even sooner than the VisualEditor.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 14:32, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

RE: Wallace Beery
Hello. I'm seeking some consensus and/or advice regarding some ongoing edit warring with the Wallace Beery article, specifically murder allegations with only one main source. I'm not one of the warring editors and no 'dog in the fight' really. My goal is to have the fairest article possible Would appreciate some fresh eyes and thoughts from other neutral and experienced WikiProject Biography folks. Talk:Wallace Beery Thanks and have a great Wiki kind of day! Sector001 (talk) 08:32, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Combine The Butcher Brothers with Mitchell Altieri and Phil Flores?
The Butcher Brothers is the name of Altieri and Flores' partnership and they seem to have made most of their notable projects (aside from Altieri's first film) together and under that moniker. Right now Alteri and Flores have separate articles independently of the article and I was wondering if it would make sense to merge them both into The Butcher Brothers article since there's a lot of overlap.--CyberGhostface (talk) 19:26, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've made a merge proposal.--CyberGhostface (talk) 02:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Maula Shah
This article is currently in the backlog for the Guild of Copy Editors, but it would benefit greatly from the touch of a biographer(s) familiar with Pakistan. Currently, I believe that cultural barriers in the poor translation make the text almost utterly incomprehensible. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Jodayagi (talk) 18:29, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I just realized there is an article assessment section to your project. I will post there. Thanks. Jodayagi (talk) 18:31, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

She was the most beutiful lady in the world, why to put one picture whe she was 82?' are you her enemy?
There are thousands of photosgraphs when she was younger and beutiful s2pid — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.148.9.251 (talk) 14:02, 12 May 2013 (UTC)


 * First a question--who exactly are you talking about?


 * As far as an answer--in general, photos uploaded to Wikipedia either have to be in the public domain, or under a license that allows free re-use. In the case of your mystery lady, it's very possible that the only such photo available to an editor was one taken when she was 82. If she was a celebrity, it's likely that most of the "thousands of photographs" are professional works under copyright, and those are a no-no here. Rklear (talk) 17:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Besides, there is nothing wrong with being 82. I look forward to it next year. GeorgeLouis (talk) 18:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Ingo Swann - date of death
Hallo! I live in Poland and I'm pl-wiki editor. How do you know that Ingo Swann died 31 January? I saw 1 link in which date of death is 31 January. In others it's 1 February, for example:. Which date of death is correct and why? <font face="Monotype Corsiva"> Mariusz Swornóg  ( talk ) 07:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Try the social security death index. GeorgeLouis (talk) 15:28, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

David Jewett Waller, Sr.
Can someone assess David Jewett Waller, Sr.? Thanks, King Jakob  C2 22:17, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * ...and this as well? King Jakob  C2 14:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I will help
With WikiProject_Biography/Assessment. But please note that I also intend to add a few of my articles, so it would be nice to have at least another active person there (backlog since last summer suggest to me that nobody is taking care of that list now). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:27, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion at Category_talk:American_novelists#RFC_or_not.3F
You are invited to join the discussion at Category_talk:American_novelists. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 16:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

United States v. Hasan K. Akbar
This article started out as a biography of Hasan K. Akbar, but in 2007 was renamed Hasan Akbar case under WP:BLP1E and became an article about the court case, not the defendant. It was recently moved to its current name. Still, the article is templated to this project and most of the categories in which it is classified (1971 births, Living people, United States Army soldiers, etc.) are biography categories. It even contains Persondata. Since the article is no longer about the person, is any of this still appropriate? Rklear (talk) 17:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Probably not....have you brought it up on the talk there? If so, just go ahead and recategorize it. WP:BRD Revent (talk) 04:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * There's the biography portal, persondata...same point. Revent (talk) 04:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Request for input: Al Pawlowski AFD
Articles for deletion/Al Pawlowski. Please help generate discussion. Thanks. <font color="#FFFFFF">Levdr1 <font color="#FF0000">lostpassword  / <font color="#000000">talk  19:41, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Emanuel Xavier
In light of the recently enacted community ban of a longtime contributor who is alleged to have pursued an on-wiki vendetta against the subjects of certain articles, I am prompted to ask experienced editors who can spare any time to examine this article to ensure it complies with basic policies and to determine whether its maintenance tags should remain in place. A more detailed version of this request is on the article's talk page. Thank you. Rivertorch (talk) 06:20, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Request for input: Jeff Phelps AFD
Articles for deletion/Jeff Phelps. Please help generate discussion. Thanks. <font color="#FFFFFF">Levdr1 <font color="#FF0000">lostpassword  / <font color="#000000">talk  15:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Norman Igo


The article Norman Igo has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No evidence of notability as a civil engineer; Wikipedia is not a memorial

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Angr (talk) 16:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion about novelist categories
Greetings! You are invited to take place in a conversation happening Category_talk:American_novelists here about how to move forward with discussion on subcategories of by-country novelist categories.&mdash; alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 14:47, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Derek Hough
His bio is incorrect. Shawn Johnson won season 9 of Dancing with The Stars. He has actually won 5-times. Look up Shawn Johnson. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.111.222.10 (talk) 16:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Lead image
Hi, I need some hint about the image for the lead. In this article (Anna Stöhr), I tried to change the lead image two times with this one File:Boulder Worldcup Vienna 27-05-2010 03 Anna Stöhr.jpg. My edits have been reverted by User:Nathan Johnson saying that the current image (File:BW 2012-08-26 Anna Stoehr AUS 0568.JPG) better shows her for what she is notable. AFAIK the lead image must show clearly the subject, i.e. the visage. I can't recognize Anna Stohr in the current lead image (her face is too little), instead with File:Boulder Worldcup Vienna 27-05-2010 03 Anna Stöhr.jpg or File:Boulder Worldcup Vienna 29-05-2010a semifinals093 Anna Stöhr.jpg I can identify Stohr. Am I wrong? Thanks in advance. --Rotpunkt (talk) 21:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * See WP:LEADIMAGE. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 00:02, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I know WP:LEADIMAGE. For me it's ok if we have an image showing Stohr both climbing AND with her visage visible, like in Usain Bolt or Pete Sampras. But if we don't have an image where visage is clearly visible I think we have to prefer an image with only the visage.--Rotpunkt (talk) 11:47, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I personally would agree that the image for the infobox/the lead image ought to be an image that best displays the topic in question, which for me is often one with the best representation of their face, etc. But I'm aware that WP:LEADIMAGE might disagree with that. I like the latter two images Rotpunkt has posted, but 'Nathan's image' is an interesting one given its viewpoint, shame it isn't of a larger res. or closer to her. S.G.(GH) ping! 19:16, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Twitter
'Ello. Some one has started a thread at WT:CRIC with regards to the inclusion of links to Twitter profiles in the external links of cricketer biographies. A lot of our cricketers (as with many sportsmen these days!) have put things on their twitters that have had direct consequences on their careers, but sometimes an in-line citation can suffice. What I wanted to know was: does this 'parent' project on biographies have any consensus on this already? S.G.(GH) ping! 19:13, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Biography based primarily on family archives
The biography of some notable people in India in the period such as 1930s or prior sometimes has to be based on primary information in terms of family archives (documents, certificates, letters, etc.) because newspapers were not common and the rare ones did not commonly cover events in India. There was no internet at that time. In such cases, what should be done. Also, no current published documents are available. Is there any way, the original documents can be scanned and somehow made part of the biography to authenicate the information therein. What are other alternatives?

pkandhal (talk) 10:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)pkandhal
 * Wikipedia is not the place. See Wikisource for a possible solution. Also, you could have a professional genealogist put everything into book or online form and try that out. Good luck! There are plenty of ways to get your information out into the Internet. Just not here. Your friend, GeorgeLouis (talk) 14:26, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: you can use primary sources, but only for very simple information that could be easily verified by a non-specialist - but the source itself must be available in a library somewhere, not just in a shoebox in your attic. I'm not sure if uploading a primary source to wikisource and then citing some information (say, a birthdate) would be problematic.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 15:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)


 * For things such as 'individual' records like that it would probably be better to put them on the 'internet archive' etext library (http://archive.org/details/texts) since they wouldn't really be the focus of a 'trancription' project. This just requires the ability to 'scan' the original documents...they can be 'cited' as primary sources for 'noncontroversial biographical details' like birthdates (just make it clear they are 'primary sources', like in a separate 'reflist' group or something....look at some of the 'better' Military History articles).
 * 'Secondary sources' such as copies of actual birth certificates would be better than 'primary' ones (like 'family bibles'), but...I suspect a lot of the people you're talking about weren't 'officially' recorded at birth anywhere.
 * One 'possible' source, though, for information about 'some' people would be the various editions of "The India List and India Office List". This is the 1902 version, but it was published yearly...this is 1819 if it gives you the idea. :) It has 'lists' of what seem to me (as a 'modern American') quite random assortments of people in some way associated with the British government...awards of 'honours', things like that.
 * It's honestly a 'goldmine' of biographical details for the 'old encyclopedia biographies' of those people...dates of appointments to offices, etc., divided into nice, organized categories. :) Revent (talk) 05:03, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Alex Mehrnaz Naini
Hello. I don't normally involve myself with this kind of page, but whilst reworking temporomandibular joint dysfunction, I came across "neuromuscular dentistry" (which I'm nominating for deletion btw) which in turn lead me to Alex Mehrnaz Naini. I have no link to this person whatsoever and as I said, I don't have experience with this kind of article, but after reading it, I am left with a distinct feeling that wikipedia should not have this page on grounds of notability. It comes across as very self promotional, and even links to their personal website. I know I should assume good faith blah blah blah, but it strongly seems like this page is advertising, purely to increase revenue and fame of a non-notable person. Thoughts? Lesion ( talk ) 16:34, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * See Articles_for_deletion/Alex_Mehrnaz_Naini... (not mine, but...) Revent (talk) 05:07, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Input required at Talk:Alger Hiss
A couple of editors have been edit warring over some specific wording in the lead of Alger Hiss. For the most part it appears the content dispute relates to the reliability of and weight to be given to specific sources. The editors are now trying to craft an RFC to address the content dispute in a rational manner. Input from interested parties in this project would be useful. --Mike Cline (talk) 15:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Birthdate conformity policy decision
You may not be aware that Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(people) has closed and there is consensus that when a birth date is used in disambiguation, it should be consistent as Name (subject, born YYYY) rather than random (including or excluding a comma, and often abbreviating born as b.) as has been the case. I need some help rewriting the policy across WP at places like WP:QUALIFIER, WP:NATURAL, WP:DAB, etc. More importantly, how do we go about beginning to move the thousands of pages that need to be moved? Please comment at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(people).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:21, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Persondata template
With Wikidata now being able to store dates, is there still going to be any need for the persondata template or will it soon be time to deprecate it since the information can then be obtained via Wikidata? -- WOSlinker (talk) 19:13, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Clarification
Hello Sir/Madam,

I am a new editor but I found in Prakash Meher article, there is no infobox or photo.

Actually I know Mr Prakash Meher very well since years ago. I have proof of his birth certificate, birth place, living place, which awards he won, about his family awards, career, list of participation in abroad exhibitions etc.

I can proof all his success details one by one because I have all original paper documents with me.

How can I show you or send you these documents to you ? Please inform me soon & remove the issue notification from the article.

Thanks.. Aamarbhagwan (talk) 11:28, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not use WP:Original research. Articles in Wikipedia are based on WP:Secondary sources. I suggest you take your material to a researcher or a writer who can get the new information into a publication or website to which a Wikipedia editor can refer when writing or editing an article. Yours, GeorgeLouis (talk) 17:41, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Alice Bemis Taylor article rating
I recently worked on an article about philanthropist Alice Bemis Taylor and it was assigned a C rating, which is said to be:
 * Is "substantial, but is still missing important content or contains much irrelevant material."
 * "The article should have some references to reliable sources, but may still have significant problems or require substantial cleanup."
 * "...fails one or more of the criteria for B-Class. It may have some gaps or missing elements; need editing for clarity, balance, or flow; or contain policy violations, such as bias or original research. Articles on fictional topics are likely to be marked as C-Class if they are written from an in-universe perspective."

I would like to be writing articles that would receive A, B or Good Article ratings (and I'm guessing the Wikiproject Biography would like more biographies to have such ratings). What changes could I make to the article to resolve the issues that make it a C-rated article?

Thanks so much! Your input would help me write better biography articles!--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 17:56, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Help with David Harding article?
Hello to anyone who's watching this project page; I'm looking for help making some updates to David Harding (finance), which is listed under this wikiproject. I have prepared a few updates for this article, however I have done so on behalf of Mr. Harding's firm, Winton Capital Management, so I believe it's best that I not edit the page directly. If anyone is interested in reviewing what I have prepared, and making the changes if you agree, please take a look at the full request on the Talk page. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 13:34, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Done, I've added comments on the changes on the talk page.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 08:22, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Paul Kagame FAC
Just in case anyone missed it and it interested, the article about Rwandan President Paul Kagame is currently up for Featured Article candidature. I've had two full reviews so far (one of which is still in progress), and it's generally looking positive, but it would be useful to get more pairs of eyes on it and further feedback. The FAC page is at WP:Featured article candidates/Paul_Kagame/archive1. Many thanks! &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 10:58, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

RfC on title of Sarah Brown (wife of Gordon Brown)
Hi, there is an RM/RfC here that may be of interest to this project. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:05, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

New article Gwenaëlle Gobé needs a look at
Hi could an experienced editor take a look at a newly created biography of a living person Gwenaëlle Gobé which may have multiple issues that I do not feel competent to handle. Thanks. Ochiwar (talk) 16:43, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Hoping for a "quid pro quo" favor for my question below, I took a look at the article, made some edits and added comments to your talk page. There may be folks smarter than me about biographies that have some additional thoughts, but hopefully this gets things rolling. Overall, the article copy was good - the comments are regarding formatting, links, acronyms, and so forth. Great job!--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 04:01, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Learned a lot from your edit and comments. Ochiwar (talk) 06:40, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I later figured out that I was probably "singing to the choir" - and that the comments were probably more useful for another individual. So, I posted something on that person's talk page to refer to your talk page.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 13:09, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe you meant "preaching to the choir", but your point was nonetheless understood. :) <font face="cursive" color="#9400D3"> TREK philer  <font face="cursive" color="#008000">any time you're ready, Uhura  16:30, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * That's so funny! I remember hearing it's better to be peachy than preachy (trying to work on it, not always so successful) - so my mind must have made a slip from "preaching". Funny!--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 16:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Help please
I don't know if this is the right place to ask for help, but there has been an issue with a editor at Georges_Yatridès for a few months. User:Arnaugi has denied having a conflict of interest but his edits started showing up right after User:Yatrides was told that he couldn't edit his own article, and Arnaugi's edits have had a strong pro Georges_Yatridès point of view. Do you think someone from this project could take a look? CombatWombat42 (talk) 16:08, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * You bring up such a good point - and it looks like there have been multiple attempts to guide folks to the right way to resolve the issues without satisfactory responses. At present there's a proposed deletion tag on the article, but there was a very good suggestion to revert to a much better, earlier version of the article. See: Talk:Georges Yatridès.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 08:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Created new article Steve Anderson (director)
I've created a new article on the film director, Steve Anderson (director).
 * Steve Anderson (director)

Suggestions for additional secondary sources would be welcomed, at Talk:Steve Anderson (director). &mdash; Cirt (talk) 23:18, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I've added some links with queries to news articles and books on the talk page.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 11:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Warren Olney (journalist)
The rename request is still ongoing. Please join in discussion to improve consensus. --George Ho (talk) 01:15, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Info Needed on Musicians & Musicians Groups: Who Wrote Lyrics?, Played Instruments? Formed Group?, etc.
The group "The Pointer Sisters" - I can't tell who wrote the lyrics. I can see that there a self-formed group. Knowing how much control female groups and solo-artists had in general is important for women's studies, so updating many profiles with these bios with info about any of the females who wrote song lyrics, played instruments, were involved in decision making, etc. This would go for men as well, but with many of the female vocal groups it's often not included in the bios who did what other than singing & formation of the group.Sylvia Blossom (talk) 18:07, 13 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Is there a question regarding The Pointer Sisters, or was it just a comment?


 * When clicking on links to songs / albums, there's information about who wrote the songs, there, right?--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 11:41, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Texas Supreme Court Chief Justice Jack Pope
Currently at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jack Pope (Texas jurist). Hugo Black is the Good Article I'm trying to follow, but won't be able to edit further until the 17th. Any assistance appreciated. The Texas State Cemetery information (currently reference #2, was submitted by Pope himself, and several of the sources are involved, but so far I've only formatted what the submitter had already. I'm cross-posting this to WikiProject Law and WikiProject Texas. Dru of Id (talk) 16:49, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've replaced the second citation with citation needed tags and am working on reviewing / editing the article.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 12:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I finished a thorough review and inserted sentence/paragraph level tags. There are still close paraphrasing and citation needed tags. I've posted comments at User talk:Tiffanyjs.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 15:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Michael Karkoc
Since the man in Minneapolis named Michael Karkoc denies being the same Michael Karkoc who was a nazi war criminal, shouldn't the article wait until there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt before stating that he is the same person? Michael Hardy (talk) 05:22, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * At the very least, the information should have been added objectively - and state that the Minnesota family denies that they are connected to the Nazi Michael Karkoc. How about if I add those bits and then see what you think.


 * It does seem that there is a Michael Karkoc, it's just whether or not the MN Karkoc is the right one for this article.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 05:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I edited it further. I think we have to be very careful here - he hasn't been convicted of anything yet, or indicted. Until such time, we should not assume that this is the same person, even if we think WP:DUCK applies. --Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 05:50, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Since we're all essentially "preaching to the choir", I added a comment on the author's talk page to look at this discussion, so that we're all of the same page.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 14:43, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Quality improvement project for Chris Field (Los Angeles musician)
I've rewritten the article Chris Field (Los Angeles musician), DIFF.
 * Chris Field (Los Angeles musician)

Further suggestions for additional secondary sources would be most appreciated, at the article's talk page, at Talk:Chris Field (Los Angeles musician).

&mdash; Cirt (talk) 02:36, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Bindy Johal infobox
I rarely edit this article other than patrolling vandalism; just changed a very POV addition to "married to" ("Adolf Hitler") and then noticed the infobox, where additions are not properly formatted and there is no citation, and it's a rap sheet like I don't think he had, unclear on that, there's many items that seem highly spurious and slanderous; if he were still alive (hm...?) the BLP patrol would have caught all this. Someone here who's also with WP:CRIME, please review this page's history and check all this; I'm swamped.Skookum1 (talk) 03:50, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep, there were a number of the issues (tone, charges, unreliable sources, claiming sources to be newspaper articles, attribution errors, uncited info some of which seemed to be original research, etc.). I essentially rewrote the article.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 18:19, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Fixing the Kevin Booth page
I am Kevin Booth - other people created this page years ago and it has always ben flagged with various "Needs Clean-up" type issues. I wouldn't care about this so much, but when someone pointed out that when you google my name this page comes up before my own web-sites and it had several errors or things that had changed. Last week for the first time ever I logged into Wiki and tried to fix the problems. With a new film out I am going in a million directions and to be honest I did NOT read all the directions. Obviously there are a lot of do's and don'ts when it comes to Wiki. Now I am being flagged as writing my own "Biography" ? - which is not true, I was only trying to fix the one that was written by others years ago as well as bring it up to date. I would appreciate it very much if whomever is flagging this could simply take the time to verify whatever it is you need verified. THe bit about me playing in a band when I was 6 years old is probably the only thing your not going to be able to find on the internet in order to verify. BUT I'm not the one who wrote that - it has been up on Wiki for years. I have no idea who wrote it. It is true, but besides me telling that story on some old interview or reading it in the Bill Hicks book I did in 2005 - you not going to be able to verify it.

One other question - When I look at other people who I know and work with Wiki pages and they have their best picture posted. Who does that? I could point to probably thousands of Wiki pages that are obviously written by the person it talking about, but I guess they were smart enough not to admit it.

Thank You Kevin Booth    kevinbooth.com  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudager769 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Since there's a conflict of interest, you may use to request an edit. See Talk:David Harding (finance). If you add that to the article talk page, I am happy to help you out and will verify the information / sources / etc. before making any changes.


 * There's a lot of uncited information, which is a huge no-no, especially for an article about a living person. I'll move that to the talk page to sort out whether there are published, reliable sources (news, journals, books, etc.) that have that information.


 * Regarding using adding a picture, I think all you need to do is upload the image to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard and then follow the steps, paying particular attention to the information about whether it's your own work or not. If it's not your work, then ensure the license information is entered properly. At the end of the upload process, there will be a link in brackets " " that can be copied into the article. It is best if the picture is just of you an non-promotional in nature. Someone more knowledgeable about adding pictures to articles about living pictures may have something additional to add.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 23:04, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe he uploaded a photo that was since deleted as it didn't have appropriate licensing. Kevin, feel free to ask a question here (or on your talk page) about permissions on photos- any image is permitted, as long as it is released under a free license - which means if you're using a shot from a pro photographer, the photographer needs to agree to license it a certain way. I'm happy to help with this. If you know of other bios that are promotional in nature and edited by the subject, please let us know. We like to hunt these down and clean them up - I do agree they are there. Also, thank you for coming clean, you will find many people willing to help you since you have declared your COI. I for one will.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 23:30, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Help reviewing draft article for Alex Castellanos
Hi everyone! I've been looking for editors to help review a new draft I've written for Alex Castellanos' article and had previously left a request at the Politics and government task force for this WikiProject, but with no reply there (or elsewhere) I thought I'd try here to see if anyone is interested. Castellanos is a high profile political consultant whose current article needs some improvement, particularly to improve the article's structure to remove confusion over the chronology of his career, and to add sourcing. On behalf of Castellanos' communications firm, Purple Strategies, I've written a new draft to propose as a replacement. Due to my conflict of interest, I won't make any edits to the article myself and I'm eager to have uninvolved editors provide feedback on the draft and help to take it live, if it's ready. There's more explanation of the draft and how it addresses issues in the current article on the article's talk page. My proposed draft is in my user space here: User:16912_Rhiannon/Alex_Castellanos

It would be fantastic if editors here could review my draft and see if it's ready to move live. If any changes are needed, please let me know or feel free to make small edits in the draft in my user space. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 14:40, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The changes are just items to add to the Infobox, is that correct? If so, I'm happy to make the changes.


 * You may also request changes to an article on the talk page by using to request an edit. (See Talk:David Harding (finance).) If you add that to the Talk:Alex Castellanos page, I am happy to help you out and will verify the information / sources / etc. before making any changes.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson  (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 18:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Someone had already made those changes for you. It's done.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 18:48, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, you had copied in a draft with changes, rather than starting with a snapshot copy of the article. That will take a bit longer to scope out, but I'll check it out.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 18:55, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Carole, really appreciate you looking at this for me. I initially began by using the current article as a base, but there were a lot of issues with the sourcing and organization of details, and mising details, so it seemed clearer to prepare a whole new draft. I saw your notes in my user space, so I'll work through those and let you know when it's ready to look at again. In the meantime, I welcome anyone else who'd like to take a look. Thanks again, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 12:21, 19 June 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ Thanks very much to Carole for reviewing this draft so thoroughly. 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 21:25, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Excellent resource: Peer-reviewed, scholarly, cited, detailed bios
I came across this excellent resource and wanted to make people aware of it. If there is a another good place to post this, where people who can make use of it will read it, please let me know; I added it to German American already.
 * Immigrant Entrepreneurship: German-American Business Biographies, 1720 to the Present (link is to Biographies section)

It's a free online encyclopedia, has in-depth biographies written by academics that have detailed citations and which they say are peer-reviewed. For example, picking a random subject: guanxi (talk) 16:59, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Harry Cohn in Wikipedia
 * Harry Cohn in Immigrant Entrepreneurship.

Nepotism
Hi- I don't edit biographies much, but I suggest it would be good if someone who does adds Nepotism to their watchlist. The article seems to be a magnet for statements that a relative of a public figure got a job because of their connection to the public figure. Where this is unsourced or where there is no allegation of nepotism, this clearly goes against the spirit and the letter of the BLP policy. I've deleted a couple of the more shameless examples, but this could do with review, or at least monitoring, by someone more familiar with the details of BLP. I haven't added this to the BLP noticeboard as it's an ongoing issue rather than an incident needing quick resolution. MartinPoulter (talk) 12:15, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

removing stub status from article Anthony Askew
IMHO this article no longer deserves to be called a stub. All important aspects of this person are mentioned and the reader is not wanting more information. There are sources, categories and everything that is needed. How do I remove stub staus? Thanks--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 12:18, 15 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I ran an edit program that removes stub tags if it meets the criteria - and the stub was not removed. To manually remove the stub tag, you would just need to remove:  at the bottom of the article.


 * I'm also making some other edits, that I'll summarize on the article talk page.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 15:28, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks for your additions and your support.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 12:58, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Willa Kim's Birthday is actually June 30, not july 3.
This is James J. White, great nephew of Willa Kim and standing here with her. She says her birthday is June 30, not July 3. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.118.94.250 (talk) 22:27, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This actually belong at the BLP project page but I have removed the birth date entirely as none of the refs or ELs provided mention a birthdate at all. Anyone who can find a WP:RS is free to add a date with thanks for the research. MarnetteD | Talk 23:01, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

New article on gender studies lecturer Nicholas Chare
I've created a new article on gender studies lecturer, Nicholas Chare.
 * Nicholas Chare

Further help with expansion would be most appreciated.

Cheers, &mdash; Cirt (talk) 06:00, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Potential Libelous content?
That last paragraph fits under that category I think, I wonder why, with no citations such a remark has been left in this article."69.226.139.6 (talk) 13:25, 26 June 2013 (UTC)"
 * This page is the talk page for the Wiki Project on Biographies. Can you tell us what article you found the problem in?  GB fan 14:34, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

RfC at Murray Rothbard article
QUESTION: Which should go first in the lede characterization of Rothbard, "political theorist" or "economist?" RfC here SPECIFICO  talk  23:16, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Jesse L Lasky Biography
Hi,

Jesse Lasky had two children, Jesse Lasky Jr (noted on Wikipedia) and Betty Lasky (not noted on Wikipedia). Betty was born 10/11/1922 and still resides in Los Angeles. She has authored many books about film, including a classic "biography" of RKO Pictures. Betty's bio info can be found on IMDB http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1544366/

Just FYI,

David Warren Los Angeles — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.125.248.166 (talk) 20:52, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I added Betty Lasky to my Biography to-do list -- <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 01:07, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Greg James
His birth place is given as Newcastle-upon-Tyne but is actually Lewisham London. http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/england-and-wales/details/B/2023868?e=B&fY=1985&tY=2006&sn=milward&fns=gregory&snNXF=true&fnNXF=true&fnS=M&rC=45&route=X 86.1.39.65 (talk) 08:40, 6 July 2013 (UTC) Susan Thompson

Questions about claiming a politician is known for their integrity
Can any Wikipedia articles claim someone was known for their integrity/honesty? I figure those familiar with the workings of biography articles could give me their opinion in this. I'm not sure what people are complaining about at a current AFD. Articles for deletion/List of political leaders renowned for their integrity (2nd nomination) What sources are sufficient for this sort of thing to be in an article about the person? University level textbooks? Notable history books from writers considered notable and reliable in their field? Newspapers are bias to whatever candidate they support of course, and magazines as well. Would any of them count? How would you determine this? Honest Abe does not have the word "honest" even once in his article. Was this discussion had before for these sorts of things?  D r e a m Focus  19:44, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Kim Jong-un.jpg
image:Kim Jong-un.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:38, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Help reviewing draft article for Howard Lederer
Hi everyone! I'm looking for help with professional poker player Howard Lederer's article, which currently has a few issues that I would like to address. I had previously posted at WP:BLPN, and an editor from there has taken a look at the article (see his comments here) but would like to see other reviews, as would I. I'm hoping that an editor here is able to look at my request.

Among my concerns with the article is the introduction's focus on Lederer's recent involvement in a lawsuit relating to Full Tilt Poker, and the description of the legal issues relating to Full Tilt later in the article. Two of the introduction's three sentences are about this lawsuit, while other details of Lederer's career are left out. Later in the article, the section dealing with Full Tilt is headed Full Tilt Poker scandal, which I feel contravenes WP:LABEL. I'm certainly not against discussion of Full Tilt and the lawsuit in the article, in fact I think it should actually be a bit more detailed to clearly explain what happened and Lederer's involvement, but I think there are currently some issues of balance and a few inaccuracies.

To address these issues, and to generally improve the article, I've prepared a new draft for editors to review. As with previous messages I've left on this page, I do have a COI here. I am working on behalf of Proof Integrated Communications, a firm that is creating a new website for Lederer's sister, Annie Duke. They'd like to be able to link to Lederer's article here and have asked me to help improve the article by bringing it up-to-date and addressing the few issues around Full Tilt. Due to my COI, I will not edit the article directly and instead would like to ask editors here to take a look at my draft.

For any editors who are able to help, here are the links to the, my proposed version and the Talk page explanation of the differences between the two. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 16:53, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Just a quick note to say that I'm still looking for editors to help review this article. If anyone is able to take a look, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 20:32, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ My draft was reviewed and has been moved live. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 13:49, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Susanna White
Per other sources, Edward White's wife Susanna was the sister of Samuel and Edward Fuller, who were also on board the Mayflower. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TreeShakers (talk • contribs) 15:53, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Occupations of people in infoboxes
How should we display subjects' occupations in occupation-specific infoboxes? Your views are invited. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:27, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Pasi Hurri


The article Pasi Hurri has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Non-notable (auto)biography

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. — Brianhe (talk) 04:14, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I for some reason expected more from Wikipedia than to see someone publicly labeled a fraud in the first sentence without proof of this to be true. It is a personal opinion rather than a description and, whether it be true or not, seems contrary to the true purpose of education. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.253.206 (talk) 20:38, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Help reviewing draft article for Morayo Awosola
I would appreciate it if some one could review and comment on an article Morayo Awosola promoting the work of the International Organisation for Legal Metrology and my role as Secretariat for some of the technical committees of this organisation. I have tried to follow closely the rules of Wikipedia publication but it seems that it may be classed as promoting my work. Personally, I think it is a useful article that shows how the work of this organisation helps to promote compertition and fairness in trade. It is not intended to promote myself but rather to show that people like me are an import cog in the machinery of standardisation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mawosola (talk • contribs) 07:40, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

My name is Martin Birdseye and Morayo Awosola worked for me at the National Measurement Office. I fully support the inclusion of his Biography because it provides useful information on his work in developing international OIML standards. At the very least the biography shows that these international standards are created by people who managed international technical committees consisting of various stakeholders. So I hope that his Morayo Awosola's biography is maintained on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbirdeye (talk • contribs) 11:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to join a discussion
Through this way, I inform there is a discussion at WT:Disambiguation about partially disambiguated titles, known as "PDABs". This subguide of WP:D affects articles in this WikiProject, some examples are covered by NCP. There you can give ideas or thoughts about what to do with this guideline. Note this discussion is not to modify any aspect of NCP. Thanks. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  00:37, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

""
The usage of is under discussion, see Talk:Heatwave (band) -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 06:20, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Gary North RfC
Question: Regarding two of the subsections in Gary North (economist) -- which describe his views, but contain original rather than secondary sources – are they proper? Please see the discussion here. Steeletrap (talk) 05:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

The article on Stephen Kijak gives an incorrect birth year for him. It denotes that he was three years old when he directed a film. Alas, I do not have the correct year. It will be a welcome correction should someone find it.Springfield1903 (talk) 07:01, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Discussion on WikiProject France talk page
Please come participate in the discussion over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject France. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 17:29, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Problem with Biographies
This comment was originally posted at the Film Project Talk Page but I noticed that in that forum they focus on films, not biographies. There's an Actor Talk Page but it's not active at the moment. I hope it's not out of place for me to repost my request for guidance here, where the focus in on biography. This Talk Page doesn't seem to be very active either but I've more of a chance of finding someone to discuss this problem.

Hey, all!

I'm not an expert on film, but I've been readings dozens (over a hundred, I'm guessing) biographies on actors, screenwriters, directors and producers, primarily from the period 1900-1950. I've just been doing clean-up, typos, fixing some awkward writing, sometimes reorganizing the page. I'm not adding much content, mostly polishing and working on structural issues of articles, as a whole.

But what I've run into time and time again are statements that are WP:PEA. There are frequent statements like, "considered the most beautiful woman in film", "the most influential director", "generally thought of as the most fashionable actress in Hollywood," "the new 'It Girl'", and the like. Seriously, I've come across at least 20 women's biographies where they were stated to be the most beautiful actresses of all time. Statements like this make a Wikipedia entry sound more like a fanpage and, of course, all evaluations like this are not sourced.

It seems to be an especially big problem among bios of actresses during the silent film period which, sometimes, just gush about the wonderfulness of the individual. It wouldn't be a surprise to me to find the same editor or small group of editor put all of these biographies together.

I'm coming to the Film Project page because I wondered if this was seen as an acceptable way of writing a biography (both for NYC-based and Hollywood-based actors). I didn't want to edit out a lot of superfluous content if this is the standard that has been agreed-upon by those editors on your team.

I want to add that this is not an evaluation on the talent and contributions of these artists. It's just an attempt to keep a neutral POV and avoid unsourced content that is more flattery than factual. I look forward to hearing your feedback.

Thanks! 69.125.134.86 (talk) 22:39, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Note that I commented on the matter here. Flyer22 (talk) 23:18, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

David Cassidy
The wiki article on performer David Cassidy contains incorrect dates. The article states that Cassidy, born in 1950, made both his Broadway debut as well as his television debut in 1956.This is patently incorrect. Please correct these inaccuracies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.249.245 (talk) 22:47, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Updates to Richard Stengel
Hello, I'm looking for help with some (fairly minor) update requests for the article about Richard Stengel, the editor of Time magazine. The current article is not bad, but can be updated with reliable sources to include more recent information. Because I have prepared these updates on Mr. Stengel's behalf, I'd like to find one or more editors to review these changes and make the changes, if they agree. Please see the full explanation on the article's Talk page if you're interested in helping. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * This is ✅. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 17:34, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

RfC regarding the titles of articles about queens
There is a request for comment regarding the titles of articles about living queens.
 * Should articles about kings and queens be titled according to the format " Philippe of Belgium " and " Queen Mathilde of Belgium ", or is it better to have " Philippe of Belgium " and " Mathilde of Belgium "?
 * Should articles about wives of kings be titled according to the format " Queen Sonja of Norway " while articles about female monarchs are titled according to the format " Juliana of the Netherlands "?

This involves changing the WP:CONSORTS guideline. I started the RfC mainly in order to get opinions of uninvoled users, i.e. those who do not normally edit royalty-related articles. Surtsicna (talk) 11:03, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Her date of death is listed as 30 July 2013 ... one day in the future74.15.218.137 (talk) 12:51, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Infobox person signature
There's a proposal at Template talk:Infobox person to change the "Signature" field in infobox person from being a label to being a header (i.e. it would change from being left-aligned to being center-aligned). Please comment over at the template talk page if you are interested. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 08:05, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Help with a couple of edits to Freddie A. Laker
Hi, if anyone has some time to help, I have a quick request for some updates to a BLP article. On behalf of his company, Guide, I prepared a new Wikipedia article for Freddie A. Laker, which was reviewed and taken live through AfC. After it went live, Freddie noted a couple of small things to fix (due to sources being unclear and Freddie being able to clarify) and I'm looking for an editor to help with these, as due to my COI I prefer not to make any edits directly. If you can help, my request is on the article's Talk page. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 21:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Request to NOT delete the article on Durga Shakti Nagpal
The article on Durga Shakti Nagpal should not be deleted. If you delete the article, it will harm India's fight against corruption. Durga Shakti Nagpal, is a highly educated, government officer who had the courage to fight the mining mafia, despite threats on her life. She is one of the few rare hopes of the middle class in India who want to see a corruption free and truly democratic country. Hence this request.

Regards, Sandipan


 * The place to appeal for the retention of this article is here. It should be retained if the subject has notable references in reliable sources. Vague claims about India's fight against corruption have no relevance to the process. Britmax (talk) 19:54, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Maria Hill, Daughter of the Regiment
this article was flagged for the biography project as a start class. hoping someone could take a look and see if it's advanced beyond start class. also, I've made extensive (?excessive) us of blockquote because of the obscurity of the references and the fact that the many small quotes tell her tale well. would appreciate a 2nd set of eyes to determine if i'm quoting too much. thanks for any help Ian Furst (talk) 01:59, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Mexico's Sistema Nacional de Investigadores
If I read the notability requirements right for academics, "The person is or has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association" (at Notability_(academics)) should mean that any professor who is a member of Mexico's Sistema Nacional de Investigadores meets the notability requirements of Wikipedia. I wrote the article on the SNI yesterday to help with determining notability for some of the professor articles I have worked on. However, the SNI has levels of membership and it seems to me that the criteria for Levels II, III and emeritus clearly indicate notability, I dont think candidate level does and Level I is iffy. Anyone care to weigh in?Thelmadatter (talk) 22:33, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

William Stukeley
This one is marked as a stub - I think it's more than this - can someone in the project please reassess. Thanks. Acabashi (talk) 23:31, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Please post requests at WikiProject Biography/Assessment in the future. Hekerui (talk) 17:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

François Leguat
From :Dev Beerachee,Educator ,Mauritius To: Competent authority ,Wikipedia Please refer to the article on Francois Leguat in Rodrigues... There seems to be an inconsistency and inaccuracy about certain facts cited in the article.After two years stay in Rodrigues, leguat and his band left the island for Mauritius  and the article cites of a member of the group dying after an accident with the corals in Reunion. It was practically very difficult for the Leguat team to reach Reunion in the small embarcation. Mauritius is found almost midway between Rodrigues and Reunion island. So, navigating from Rodrigues the embarcation must have already reached Mauritius  instead of sayin that Leguat lost a member of the crew at Reunion. Please do needful. Dev Beerachee. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Devendranathbee (talk • contribs) 15:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Missing Person Bio: Kimberly_McAndrew
When you look at the content that is online from this case most of it is in the last 10 years. Many of the early 90's newspaper articles and TV broadcast that covered this national story didn't make it online. Their seems to be a content void from the early 90's where content creators didn't get their stories to the internet or into modern media channels like Youtube. Even after 20 years of coverage only a small number of recent content is out there, most from what I have found at the Nova Scotia archive, is missing. I hope to fine the videos of then Prime Minister: Brian Mulroney commenting on the disappearance of Kimberly McAndrew during my next visit to the archive.jbignell (talk) 04:38, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Question about my involvement with this project
Good morning, I am working on my final exam requirements for my adopter Jackson Peebles and part of the exam is to become a member of a project or two. I "joined" this project way back when I was a bit newer and always just assumed that since I joined and have worked on cleaning up or adding to some of the articles in this category that I was doing as I was supposed to do. My question is: Is there anything that I can do to become a more involved editor on this project? Is there a list of tasked needed to be completed and can I just jump in or do I wait for someone to assign me some things to do on a particular project? If so I would love some "assignments" if not maybe a suggestion or two as to what it more pressing at this time. Thank you so much for your time and attention, in advance, to this matter.<font style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:Red 0em 0em 0.8em,Yellow -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,Cyan 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;color:#000000">Tattoodwaitress♥<font style="color:Black">LetsTalk 18:06, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Girolamo_Segato URL update
Sorry for posting in the wrong place. I cannot figure out how to edit the entry.

For the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Segato, the reference link should be updated to:

http://www.siai.unifi.it/docs/vol112/v112fasc1_2orlandi.pdf

Regards, Anne — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.247.101 (talk) 18:28, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

RfC relating to articles on Canadian governors general
An RfC about the use of images in infoboxes on biography articles about Canada's governors general has been started at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. Please give your opinion on the matter there to help resolve a dispute. Thanks. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  15:44, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

""
The usage of is under discussion, see talk: Gretzky (disambiguation) -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 02:11, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

""
The usage of is up for discussion, see talk: Jágr (surname) -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 02:18, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Reginald_III,_Duke_of_Guelders - Claimed illegitimate children
I noticed there are several pages for the same person in different languages, with conflicting or differing information. <ul> <li>Here is a Dutch version claiming he only had an illegitimate son: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinoud_III_van_Gelre <li>Here is an English version (and French) claiming he only had an illegitimate daughter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_III,_Duke_of_Guelders </ul> Neither page is properly substantiated with some form of official documentary record or source or historical research to substantiate these claims. Since Reginald III is linked to royalty via Eleanor of Woodstock, daughter of Edward II of England, I think they should be held to a higher standard of research substance and editorial control. --105.225.203.97 (talk) 16:49, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Albert Fish's GAR
Albert Fish, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. GamerPro64 02:31, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Zdzisław Krasnodębski Biography
I´d like to contribute adding more references and citations. Description of Krasnodebsky´s last battle and injuries are in the Richard Collier´s book "Eagle Day", from 1967. The author interviewed Krasnodebsky after the war, in Krasnodebsky´s apartment in Toronto, Canada. I have, at least, more 5 books dedicated to Battle of Britain in my personal library, and can do a search to find more references. If Wikipedia accepts my contribution, please let me know by my e-mail: carlos.ruchaud@gmail.com I´m an amateur historician about World Wat II for the last 45 years, and have a huge library about the theme, built during this time. I can contribute too in many other articles about WWII, including planes, tanks and ships (for instance, I have Gunther Prien´s original book "Mein Weg Nach Scapa Flow" about the U-47 incursion). I am at your entire disposal, but don´t know how to manage Wikipedia so that I can suggest more info about the articles.I would appreciate a lot some guidance. Best regards, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.222.16.74 (talk) 14:20, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Matthew Rose - Footballer
Matthew Rose is currently the Head Coach of Arsenal Elite Balkans Academy in Thessaloniki, Greece and no longer a Financial Advisor as stated in his Bio. He has held his current position since October 2012 Gemma Rose Gemmavienna (talk) 14:00, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Birth place
Should a person's birth place be the geographical location of the hospital they're born in or the place where they will be living after they leave the hospital, i.e., the geographical location of their parents' house? Assume that both places can be sourced. See Benedict Cumberbatch for a recent change to the hospital location.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:37, 15 August 2013 (UTC)


 * You can only be born in one place hospital or otherwise, it has been done but it is unusual for Hospitals to move physical location. MilborneOne (talk) 19:43, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Jane and Louise Wilson
Jane and Louise Wilson should this not be two articles Jane Wilson (British artist) and Louise Wilson (British artist)? I have never seen this format before but then I don't normally edit biography articles. Jim Sweeney (talk) 18:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The Wachowskis
 * Category:Twin_people_from_the United Kingdom
 * Category:Twin_people_from_the_United_States
 * There's more... -  thewolfchild   22:31, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Wright brothers also comes to mind. Rklear (talk) 13:05, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Episode count in TV filmography for main cast
For actors that routinely play featured roles in various TV shows, as well as being in the main cast of a show, it would be nice to be able to see those long-running roles more prominently in the TV filmography. In other words, the featured roles have episode counts in the notes, but the main cast roles do not. I propose to add the episode counts to the main cast roles as well. These would be through the last aired episode or confirmed "in the can" (if available). For example, I would add "(48 episodes )" to the notes for Rizzoli and Isles at since ep 48 was the last to air before his death. Given the comment about the current season production scheduled to wrap in August 2013, most of the current season is probably in the can, but we don't have a source for that yet. —&#91; Alan  M  1 (talk) &#93;— 21:29, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Looking for help on editing Damon_Matthew_Wise biography specifically on autism and disability
We are looking for Damon Matthew Wise — Preceding unsigned comment added by AspieNo1 (talk • contribs) 08:15, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Personal Life
An issue I have with some BLP's is the specific "Personal Life" vs. the generalized "Life and Career" sections. Bio articles such as Justin Timberlake, Jennifer Lopez, Beyonce, Jay Z, Rihanna, Katy Perry, Carrie Underwood, Bruce Springsteen, Kanye West, and Adele all have "Personal Life" sections. Other bios like Christine Aguilera, Alicia Keyes, Britney Spears and Madonna do not have "Personal Life" sections, but instead have all their personal info spread out among all their career info in a (usually much larger) "Life and Career" section. No offence but... this is a pain in the ass. Often times, someone may want to look up a specific item of a personal nature about a notable person and, of course, they're gonna come here to reference that. But who wants to go sifting through paragraph after paragraph of career and other info just to try and find what they're looking for? From what I've seen, many bios have "Personal Life" sections. But now, some of them are being removed and the info spread out over the majotity of the article. Who's idea was this anyway? Having a look around some relevant guide pages, I couldn't seem to find anything about this for assistance. Can anyone here offer some insight on this? Thanks. -  thewolfchild  10:48, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * OK... 2 weeks and no response. I take it I might as well go to the various bio's where I see the problem, start taking apart all the "Life and Career" sections, sift out all the personal info and then add it to newly  RE -created "Personal Life" sections. When fan-boys start complaining and edit-warring, I'll just direct them here. Thanks everyone. -  thewolfchild   06:31, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * btw - this initially started here at WP:HD -  Wolf 


 * When I saw that there was no support developing for your position, I chose not to comment at all. No, personal lives should not be separated, nor should things be segregated by category. It always involves some level of original research. Kim Kardashian is a prime example: how on earth would anyone decide whether the sex tape that made her famous in the first place was a private thing (and hence a part of her "personal life") or a calculated career move? Similarly with her short-term marriage, which rapidly blew up after making her millions of dollars? There's just no way to reliably sort these things. She's probably the most extreme example, but most people in the entertainment industry don't have cleanly segregated personal lives.&mdash;Kww(talk) 02:11, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, well... is there a policy to "support your position"? I have also noticed you "chose not to comment" on the many talk pages of bio's where users are complaining of a lack of 'Personal Life' section. Now, you've used Kim Kardashian as an example of why this change is necessary. Why is it that your lowered opinion of someone like Kim Kardashian is the basis for changing other's work here? - And this is a change. Many of the bio's now lacking a 'Personal Life' section, did have one at one time. Now they are being removed and the info is being added to the 'Life and Career' section.


 * Now, readers who may be interested in referencing a simple chronology of career milestones, now have various personal details bloating said chronology, making it more difficult to track. Likewise, readers simply looking to find specific personal info, now have to hunt through an entire life and career to find what they're looking for. You say that "...most people in the entertainment industry don't have cleanly segregated personal lives...". Really? "Most"? According to whom? And anyway... is this not why we have categories and sections, etc., to help organize large amounts of info? To help "cleanly segregate" personal lives from careers? To lump everything together in one 'Life and Career' section basically works against what Wikipedia does here.


 * And lastly, how is it that info in a 'Personal Life' section "...always involves some level of original research", when the same personal info spread across a 'Life and Career' section does not? That argument doesn't make sense. -  thewolfchild   19:36, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * WP:BLP supports my basic position, and my statements about Kim Kardashian aren't a result of a "lowered opinion", it's just recognizing reality: it would be a BLP violation to describe the porn as a career move, because she adamantly claims that it was not. It would be a BLP violation to describe it as a personal and private matter, because there are numerous reliable sources that say it was a career move. Same with her marriage. By presenting her life in chronological fashion, we don't have to make statements one way or the other: we simply present events at the time they occurred, and leave it at that.
 * There are similar issues with many celebrities: did Selena Gomez date Justin Bieber out of a genuine romantic interest, or was is a publicity move to link her name to that of a more famous star? How much of Lindsay Lohan's career trouble is a result of her personal issues? We don't know, can't find out, and, per WP:BLP, cannot say without a reliable source. Cutting articles into such categories forces us to make such decisions, and that's a BLP problem. Simple straightforward chronologies avoid having to make such judgements.
 * If there are people that only want to read about the infinite series of celebrity romances, there are sites for that. We don't need to cater to them.&mdash;Kww(talk) 20:43, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

How does WP:BLP "support your position"? And when you say "We don't need to cater to them"... Who is "them"? People who read Wikipedia? Your comments are again betraying your personal attitude toward certain entertainer's that have bio's here. It is you, not policy, that is making these claims that aspects of their personal and professional lives are so suspiciously intertwined that we're forced to blend them together. Your examples of the motivation behind the release Kardashian's sex tape and her marriage, the authenticity of the Gomez/Bieber relationship, and the troubles that Lohan has faced are all baseless examples. These are things we can know and can find out. And, as long as they are properly sourced, written in a neutral and balanced fashion and, deposited under the appropriate section, then WP:BLP, and Wiki-Policy as a whole has been satisfied.
 * Kardashian's sex tape, with cites, falls under 'Personal Life'
 * Kardashian's marriage, with cites, falls under 'Personal Life' - blending these with her career is out of balance.
 * Kardashian's television show, clothing line, fragence line, modeling and acting all fall under 'Career', cited of cource, and divided among proper sub-sections such as 'Television', 'Business', 'Modelling', etc. Blending these with her personal life is out of balance.


 * Gomez and Bieber dating, with cites, falls under 'Personal Life' - blending with their careers is out of balance.
 * Gomez's and bieber's respective musical career fall under 'Career'. - blending with their personal lives is out of balance.


 * Lohan getting arrested, and other legal issues, with cites, falls under 'Personal Life', possibly under the sub-section 'Legal Issues' - blending with her career is out of balance.
 * Lohan's career, such that is is, falls under 'Career'. With possible subsections such as 'Television', 'Movies', Music', etc. With cites, the chronology speaks for itself. - blending with her personal life is out of balance.

One of the main things that WP:BLP stresses is keeping balance in these articles. - WP:BLP: "Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone."

- WP:BLP "Care must be taken with article structure to ensure the overall presentation and section headings are broadly neutral. Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association, and biased or malicious content."

Your method of lumping everything together under 'Life and Career' does just the opposite. It takes away from the balance of the article by lending to the idea that one thing has to do with another, when it may not be the case at all. Along with lacking balance, these long, rambling sections can be viewed as attack pages, if there is enough disproportion among the negative and positive entries. Attack pages are another thing that is expressly prohibited by WP:BLP and WP:ATP. Furthermore (and just as bad) these huge life and career sections of yours take away from the primary and all-to-important function of WP, that of being a Reference. Gathering, maintaining and presenting properly sourced information is a user-friendly format. When all is said and done, this concept is pretty simple - when people want to look up one thing, they don't want to hunt through mountains of information to find it. That's why we have search functions and that's why we have sub-sections. -  thewolfchild  01:17, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * You have it precisely backwards.&mdash;Kww(talk) 04:51, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Because...? -  thewolfchild   05:38, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Because the categorization and segmentation that you wish to impose on people's lives are rarely supported by reliable sources, and structuring articles that way forces editors to make value judgements that are not supported by sources. Simply laying things out chronologically prevents us from having to make assertions as to what a person's motives and drivers were behind their actions. All of your "out of balance" judgements above are based on your personal assumptions about people. There's no need to make those assumptions.&mdash;Kww(talk) 05:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "Because the categorization and segmentation that you wish to impose on people's lives are rarely supported by reliable sources..."
 * - I'm not looking to impose anything on people's lives. I simply want to take the existing information and present in a format that is easier to research. Same info. Same sources. Just in the subsections they belong.


 * "...and structuring articles that way forces editors to make value judgements that are not supported by sources."
 * - Wrong. Editor's aren't just left to flounder along, trying to jam square pegs into round holes. There are extensive policies and checks & balances in place that govern how these articles are written, not to mention the tremendous over-sight from the community. In the end, the same marriage, on the same date, to the same person, cited by the same source... can easily go into a personal life section where it belongs, instead of forcing editors to "make value judgements" on just how to cram it into one paragraph or another, among all the career info. This is where your logic is actually backwards. By co-mingling the personal and career info, and perhaps giving the wrong impression of what has had an impact on what, the door is open to creating a misleading article. This is just what the WP:BLP expressly prohibits.


 * "Simply laying things out chronologically prevents us from having to make assertions as to what a person's motives and drivers were behind their actions."
 * - Actually, lumping everything together causes just that. "Did this scandal effect 'X'?", "Did 'Y' have something to do with that tour?". No, by having the career written separately, it relieves the editors of having to carefully navigate through those associations while giving the reader a nice simple chronology of the subjects career accomplishments and misfortunes. Meanwhile, the personal life is left to just that, a straight-forward and limited section, that won't have an impact on the overall article every time something needs to be added, especially in the cases of some of the examples you gave, (Kim et al.) who have fairly busy and ever-changing personal lives.


 * These articles were originally set up that way for a reason - it worked. -  thewolfchild   08:31, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Your whole argument is based on the idea that a celebrity's personal life is separate from the same celebrity's career. Celebrities certainly have personal lives, but they also manufacture things for public consumption, from feuds to romance to marriage. Despite your assertions that these things are easily categorized, they aren't. Why do you want to step into a story like this one and have Wikipedia take sides?&mdash;Kww(talk) 15:11, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

cont'd
Ugh. Manufactured feuds and marriages, sex-tapes, DUI's, same-sex romps, etc. are just the kind of thing that needs to be kept out of a career section. As a balanced and neutral point of reference, entertainer career chronologies should be kept simple and to the point; songs, albums, tours, release dates, tv series, movies, modeling campaigns, salaries, profits, audiences, numbers, milestones, awards, collaborations, etc, etc. There is plenty of appropriate content to list with a "Career" section, keeping it to the point, unbiased and easily absorbed without adding all the fluff and nonsense you have mentioned, that clearly belongs in a separate "Personal Life" section, (if such content needs and can be added at all.)

You keep going on about the 'difficulties' editors may run into trying to determine just what would be 'Career' and what would be 'Personal', so you would instead just have these editors lump all the content together in your Life and Career Super-sections, leaving the difficulty to the reader to sort out. Whether a reader just wants to follow the progress of a performers' on-stage career, without having to identify what is personal and then having to set it aside - or, vice-versa - where a reader simply what to look up a particular personal fact about a celebrity, yet they have to sift through paragraph after paragraph to try and piece that item together, (for example an relationship or outcome of a legal issue has different dates and occurrences related to that one issue, divided among multiple paragraphs and sub-sections.)

Like I said, we should go with what works. And since it seems that on every bio that had it's Personal Life section removed in favour of the Life and Career Super-section, there have been complaints about these changes. It just shows that maybe you should be taking that into account, what the readers want, instead of just the so-called struggles of the editors. -  thewolfchild  19:54, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "Leaving the difficulty to the reader to sort out" is the essence of WP:NPOV. We don't make the conclusions for the reader.&mdash;Kww(talk) 20:15, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * My comment was not about "making conclusions" for the reader. It was about making it easier for the reader by discerning what content is appropriate for what section. I'm still waiting for a clear explanation as to why you think that personal information needs to be interspersed among a career chronology. This only makes it more difficult to solely track either; a celebrities career accomplishments, etc. -or- search out personal items. This is exactly why we have sections and sub-sections. All your continuing arguments about POV, OR, difficulties differentiating among career and personal info, personal life sections causing an epidemic of un-sourced info and "BLP may me do it!" simply don't hold water. In the end, I'm simply asking for the same sourced info to be sub-divided from one section to two - like it used to be for these articles and still is for a majority of the bio's here. It makes the article easier to read and does not violate any wiki-policy. -  thewolfchild   16:52, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * No, you are asking us to take the same fact and take a side as to whether it was a career move of not. Take the example of Kardashian's marriage again: if you put it in a "Personal Life" section, you are implicitly stating that numerous credible accusations that it was a publicity stunt to further her career are false. If you put it in a "Career" section, you are implicitly stating that her protestations that it was a genuine marriage are false. Placing it in a section devoted to what happened in 2010 doesn't make either statement, and that's what we strive for. We don't structure an article to make judgements about people, either positive or negative.&mdash;Kww(talk) 18:04, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * No, a marriage, any marriage, belongs in a "Personal Life" section, just as it does with every other biography. You then add whatever properly cited info there is regarding the circumstances of the marriage, and add it to the section as well. That's not "taking a side", that's properly organizing information for reference - kinda' the point of what WP is for. And, quite frankly, it shouldn't matter if somebody else claims that the marriage was a stunt, regardless of how well cited those claims are. If Kardashian says it was legit and NOT a career move, then that's it. In fact, by blending her marriage with her career, you are "taking a side" by adding to the speculation that they are related. It's not Wikipedia's place to add to this speculation. By combining this with her actual career facts, your are creating bias and that is something that BLP expressly forbids. -  thewolfchild   22:13, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * By the way, have you had a look at the Kim Kardashian page? Under the section heading of "Life and Career", The very first sub-heading is "1980–2007: Early life and sex tape." You think that makes for a neutral and unbiased bio? -  thewolfchild   22:59, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, yes. "Unbiased" and "whitewashed" are not synonyms. She was paid $5M, and it was the launching point for her career. Why would you think that it wasn't sufficiently important to list in a section heading? As for always believing what celebrities say, I don't think that would be a sound editorial policy for an encyclopedia.&mdash;Kww(talk) 23:28, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh, good lord, what a way to twist words. Nothing I wrote indicates that I feel that "belief in what celebrities say should be a basis for editorial policy". And I'm am not looking to "whitewash" anything, but having the words "sex tape" so boldly and prominently in the very first sub-section heading of a bio not just inappropriate, it is an overstatement and creates imbalance in the article. All violations of BLP. This is another problem with lumping everything together. The majority of info is buried and leaves specific items difficult to find (a point you haven't addressed yet) but, as was recently pointed out to me, some items are included in sub-section headers, however just as with the Kardashian example sited above, that creates imbalance as it puts focus on those items.

Now, you addressed only the Kardashian comment and nothing else. Allow me to re-post;
 * No, a marriage, any marriage, belongs in a "Personal Life" section, just as it does with every other biography. You then add whatever properly cited info there is regarding the circumstances of the marriage, and add it to the section as well. That's not "taking a side", that's properly organizing information for reference - kinda' the point of what WP is for. And, quite frankly, it shouldn't matter if somebody else claims that the marriage was a stunt, regardless of how well cited those claims are. If Kardashian says it was legit ( already addressed) and NOT a career move, then that's it. In fact, by blending her marriage with her career, you are "taking a side" by adding to the speculation that they are related. It's not Wikipedia's place to add to this speculation. By combining this with her actual career facts, your are creating bias and that is something that BLP expressly forbids.

You do tend to avoid some points and questions sometimes... -  thewolfchild  01:52, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Your argument that chronological ordering is somehow judgmental is impossible to address, because it is patently absurd. Your definition of "balance" is extremely strange, as it seems to weigh things by your level of distaste rather than significance. Think: if she had first risen to prominence by appearing on The Price Is Right, you wouldn't have any objection to labeling the section "Early life and The Price Is Right", would you? What's the difference, beyond your belief that sex tapes are somehow not worthy of prominent notice? Catering to people that don't intend to read the entire article is a low priority, and the sections you struck out in your previous comment are so wrong as to betray a complete misunderstanding of what a neutral, unbiased presentation of facts is.&mdash;Kww(talk) 02:40, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It's "impossible to address" because you are missing the point. My argument isn't about "chronological ordering being judgmental". My argument is that lumping several sections together into one not only disorganizes the article, it makes specific information difficult to find and can create a bias by intertwining career and personal facts leading the reader to believe one might have something to do with the other when it very well may not. There is a reason that these sections and sub-sections exist (and remember, I didn't create them). "Early Life", "Career", "Personal Life", "Controversy", "Artistry", "Legacy", "Awards", "Cultural Influences", "Business Ventures", "Other Ventures", etc., etc., along with all the various sub-sections used to help organize info further - these are part of the common lay-out used in a majority of the bio's on WP, (including entertainers), they are widely approved by WP policy and thus should be considered the standard. Yet, all of a sudden, you feel that writer's face all kinds of moral conflict when using these sections, and the only answer is to do away with them completely, and intermix then dump all biographical info onto one "Life and Career" super-section. Thereby forcing everyone to read through an entire article because you believe "Catering to people that don't intend to read the whole article is a low priority" (now, that's absurd). Well, I have news for you... not everyone wants to read thru an entire article. Organizing info into sections and subsections, (along with a search function and linking) makes info easier to reference, which is part of what an encyclopedia is.


 * As for my last (re-posted) comment, I struck one line out because it was the only part you actually bothered to address, hence the reason the I re-posted it. As for the remainder, I Thought: and the point is there is a difference between "SEX TAPES" and "The Price Is Right". One is controversial and leads to bias and unbalance while the other isn't and doesn't. I'm at a loss to see how you can fail to grasp that. A sex tape is not the sole reason Kardashian rose to prominence. If the tape never existed, she would still be Kim Kardashian, socialite, model, reality tv star, producer, singer, actress, fashion designer and businesswoman. The fact that you want a sex tape to overshadow all that only brings into question your concepts of 'neutral', 'balanced' and 'un-biased'. In your own words; "She was paid $5M, and it was the launching point for her career.", confirm that. You don't know that and you can't say that. That's your opinion and it's terribly misleading and disingenuous. There was a tape that she claimed was for private use and was released without her permission. She sued, but it was already out there, it's not like the law could un-ring that bell, so she settled for $5M, after the fact. Once again, your lowered opinion of entertainers is betraying you and has no place in your editorial decision making. You would lump her sex tape in with the rest of her legitimate career accomplishments, under "Life and Career", when really, it belongs under a "Controversy" section.


 * I must ask, do you intend to (or have others to) start re-writing other existing BLP's in this fashion? -  thewolfchild   17:37, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I think all biographies should be written in chronological order without artificial segregation into categories, yes. I won't actively lobby for it except in the extreme cases where I think the segregation presents a substantial risk of creating bias. You accuse me of bias, but this really is a case where you should remove the beam from your own eye. Some agree with you that the tape was released inadvertently and she made the best of a bad situation. Others believe the tape was intentionally released in order to create publicity for her just-launched reality show and upcoming Playboy shoot. Who's right? I don't know. You don't know. Wikipedia shouldn't pretend to know, and right now, it doesn't.&mdash;Kww(talk) 18:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "I think all biographies should be written in chronological order..."
 * - "You think" vs. years of established Wikipedia editorial policy and thousands of widely accepted biographies is hardly a basis to re- write these articles.
 * "...segregation presents a substantial risk of creating bias."
 * - Can you provide an example of where/how this would be the case?
 * "...you should remove the beam from your own eye."
 * - Your quip notwithstanding, you could be accused of preaching as much as I. Let's just stick to the present topic for debate, shall we?
 * "...I don't know. You don't know. Wikipedia shouldn't pretend to know, and right now, it doesn't."
 * - Thank you! That's my point exactly. By combining controversial items such as a sex tape, and personal items such as a marriage, into a career chronology, gives the appearance that Wikipedia is stating one thing has to do with the other, which as you have just stated, WP shouldn't and can't be doing.  -  thewolfchild   21:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * At this point, I can only presume that you are intentionally pretending to misunderstand what I say.&mdash;Kww(talk) 05:37, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

recap
- Really? Well, let's see; - I say that only content that is properly cited should go into a BLP (or any article) regardless of what section it is. And dividing info into sections is not a "value judgment", it's simply organization.
 * "At this point, I can only presume that you are intentionally pretending to misunderstand what I say. - Kww "
 * You claim that sections such as "Career", "Personal Life", "Controversy", etc., "...are rarely supported by reliable sources, and structuring articles that way forces editors to make value judgements that are not supported by sources."

- I don't. You have contradicted yourself here. Whether a celebrity has allegedly manufactured something or not, is not for us at WP to decide. Keep. It. Simple. ( stupid ) - TV shows and musical tours are "Career", marriages and relationships are "Personal Life", criminal charges and lawsuits are "Legal Issues" and sex tapes and inappropriate conduct are "Controversy". Thereby eliminating bias, imbalance, and "value judgements" such as 'what-may-be-a-result-of-what' and 'what-may-have-impacted-what'.
 * You say that "Celebrities certainly have personal lives, but they also manufacture things for public consumption, from feuds to romance to marriage. Despite your assertions that these things are easily categorized, they aren't. Why do you want to ... have Wikipedia take sides?"

- Which is why we don't lump a marriage or a sex tape, accused of being career moves, with other legitimate career accomplishments and highlights.
 * Then you said "We don't make the conclusions for the reader."

-Well, let's just look at your own example, the 2011 section on Kim Kardashian's page. Is it saying she used a genocide, simply to sell her new perfume? Is it saying she married Humphries to get publicity for her Las Vegas store?
 * You said "...you are asking us to take the same fact and take a side as to whether it was a career move of not. Take the example of Kardashian's marriage again: if you put it in a "Personal Life" section, you are implicitly stating that numerous credible accusations that it was a publicity stunt to further her career are false. If you put it in a "Career" section, you are implicitly stating that her protestations that it was a genuine marriage are false. Placing it in a section devoted to what happened in 2010 doesn't make either statement...'"

- No... but clearly you are comfortable making all sorts of innuendos. Something that Wikipedia does not permit.
 * Then you went on to say "We don't structure an article to make judgements about people, either positive or negative."

-Ah, but there IS policy on this. See; Blp, Blp and Blp (where apparently ArbCom doesn't agree with you). And, yes I also believe that what the subject of a BLP says, especially in relation to their own bio, has a great deal of relevance (as long as it properly sourced).
 * You somewhat manipulatively wrote: "As for always believing what celebrities say, I don't think that would be a sound editorial policy for an encyclopedia."

-Well, maybe because that's not my argument.
 * You; "Your argument that chronological ordering is somehow judgmental is impossible to address..."

-It's your definition of "imbalance" that is extremely strange. My definition of balance is weighed by presentation and organization, and the amount of positive info vs. negative info, appropriately laid out.
 * You; "Your definition of "balance" is extremely strange, as it seems to weigh things by your level of distaste rather than significance."

- I though Wikipedia was for everyone.
 * You; "Catering to people that don't intend to read the entire article is a low priority..."

-And you don't seem to care if it's the other way around - where "chronological order" presents a substantial risk of creating bias.
 * And, finally, you wrote; "I think all biographies should be written in chronological order without artificial segregation into categories, yes. I won't actively lobby for it except in the extreme cases where I think the segregation presents a substantial risk of creating bias."

There, I've gone over your comments and addressed them - twice. So, obviously I have understood everything you have say. The real question is whether you understand anything I have said. I wouldn't venture to comment on whether your apparent lack of comprehension is feigned or not. What I will say is that it seems you are arguing for the sake of arguing and sticking to a position, without merit, perhaps only to save face and not give in. -  thewolfchild  21:03, 25 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll try one more time: you cannot take a fact and put it in a section labeled "Personal life" without implicitly saying that it wasn't a career move. You cannot take a fact and put it in a section labeled "career" without implicitly saying that it wasn't a part of her personal life. You can put it in a section labeled "2007" without saying anything of the sort in either direction. Sorting things by time is inherently the least biased presentation. Sorting things into buckets like "Career", "Personal life", and "Controversy" is an inherently biased presentation. I don
 * Now, if you want to claim that titling the section "2011" instead of "2011:Marriage to Kris Humphries" would be better, I could probably support that. What I can't support is the idea that words like "marriage" belong in subheadings but words like "sex tape" do not. Right now, the subheadings list the major event(s) in the paragraph, but if that were to change, it should change for all the paragraphs.&mdash;Kww(talk) 21:50, 25 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "...you cannot [put a fact] in a section labeled "Personal life" without implicitly saying that it wasn't a career move..."


 * Don't be silly, of course you can. It's done on countless numbers of BLP's here. If you're referring to the specific example of Kardashian, you still can. Your claim that her marriage may or may not have had something to do with her career is something that is addressed with the controversy section. Info about marriage - personal. Info about allegations of publicity stunt - controversy. Neither have anything to do with confirmed, established, legitimate career items, such as - tv show, modeling, fashion design, etc. Did you read my comment about innuendos? Or better yet, have actually read the Kardashian bio? What a mess. It just rambles on, and on... jumping from career move, to personal experience, to business venture, to lawsuit, to whatever she happens to be tweeting at the time. Each item leading the reader to believe it was affected by the one before it, or the effect is the one following it. (ahem... bias, undue weight, misleading, etc.)


 * I can't thank you enough for bringing up the Kardashian example. It bolsters my position perfectly.


 * As for your comment about changing the headings - ugh... no, that's not what I was suggesting. At all. But it brings up the other problem I have repeatedly mentioned here, that being trying to find anything in the article. It's bad enough as is, switching to just dates would make it worse.


 * Not only does your chronology super-section make things hard to find, mislead readers and create bias and imbalance, but it takes away from the reference style that makes Wikipedia an encyclopedia, it makes pages look like the long (and only getting longer) chronology lay-out that facebook pages are turning into. -  thewolfchild   03:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * You keep betraying your bias by labeling some items as "legitimate" career items, implying that others are "illegitimate". What criteria do you use? More importantly, who decided that you are qualified to set those criteria?


 * And, as always, you are arguing from a false premise. If you separate the article into labeled categories, you can't put an item into one of those labeled categories without making the implicit statement that the item belongs there and does not belong in other categories. If a sequence of events leads an editor to a conclusion, we don't need to obfuscate the sequence by giving the items distinct labels and placing them in separate sections in order to prevent them from making that conclusion.&mdash;Kww(talk) 05:20, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "You keep betraying your bias by labeling some items as "legitimate" career items, implying that others are "illegitimate"."
 * - Oh, puh-leeeze. You keep betraying your constant need to nit-pick and distract. Would you feel better if I used the word "traditional" instead of "legitimate". Because, yes... I would then be implying that some items are "non-traditional". For example, a sex-tape and a marriage are "non-traditional" career items. A sex-tape would "traditionally" be a controversy item and a marriage is "traditionally" a personal life item.


 * "What criteria do you use? More importantly, who decided that you are qualified to set those criteria?"
 * - No one "decided I was qualified to set these criteria" - these criteria already exist right here among the many, many BLP's here on Wikipedia (that haven't been bastardized with your 'life and career' super-sections). That's the criteria I use. (Have you even bothered to read any non-super-section BLP's here?)


 * "And, as always, you are arguing from a false premise."
 * - Oh, really?


 * "If you separate the article into labeled categories, you can't put an item into one of those labeled categories without making the implicit statement that the item belongs there and does not belong in other categories."
 * - Now, that is a false premise. One you continue to go on about, without actually supporting it. The fact is, you can put different items into different sections. If, there is some controversy surrounding an item, you can always just add properly cited info regarding that issue to either the section it is in, or in a "controversy" section - just how it is already done with many BLP's here. (really... do you read other blp's?)


 * "If a sequence of events leads an editor to a conclusion, we don't need to obfuscate the sequence by giving the items distinct labels and placing them in separate sections in order to prevent them from making that conclusion."
 * - Unless, of course, the reader is being lead to the wrong conclusion. But, then, Wikipedia shouldn't be leading readers to any conclusions, should it? -  thewolfchild   20:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Exactly. Which is why we don't mislead them with opinionated labeling in order to lead them to false conclusions: we simply lay out events in the sequence that they occurred, without making judgements as to whether they are "legitimate" or "controversial".&mdash;Kww(talk) 20:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "If a sequence of events leads an editor to a conclusion..."
 * - So, you're ok with super-section chronologies leading readers to conclusions? But when I said: "...Wikipedia shouldn't be leading readers to any conclusions, should it?", your response was;
 * "Exactly.".
 * - Hoo-boy! You are really tripping yourself up with your own circular 'logic'. But, wait, there's more;
 * "Which is why we don't mislead them with opinionated labeling in order to lead them to false conclusions..."
 * - Ah, but we've established that a majority of the BLP's here use these sections - that you refer to as "opinionated labeling". Therefore, there must be an epidemic of poor readers being misled by thousands of bio's here. Yet, when I asked you if you intended to do anything about it, you replied;
 * " I won't actively lobby for it..."
 * - So, is it a problem or not?
 * "...except in the extreme cases where I think the segregation presents a substantial risk of creating bias."
 * - Well, for that, 'what criteria do you use? More importantly, who decided that you are qualified to set those criteria?' - I would love to see your answer to that.


 * But, in the meantime... when is enough enough? Your 'circular logic' isn't even logic, it's a ridiculous fallacy. You claim that some bio's here (exactly which ones, we're not sure) require all their content be re-written into chronological super-sections, because... um, do you really even know why? - I would also love an answer for that. One that is clear and consistent.
 * Meanwhile, I know they don't need these chronologies, at all. The sections currently being used, such as "Personal Life", "Career", "Early Life", "Business Ventures", "Legacy", "Awards", "Controversy", etc. etc., serve the BLP's quite well, as long as they are used appropriately with properly sourced info. These sections help keep the information organized, and easy to find (for all readers) as well as keeping it balanced, unbiased and non-judgmental. This is opposed to these long, rambling, convoluted "Life and Career" sections which only serve to make specific items difficult to find, create bias and imbalance, and erroneously lead readers to make incorrect judgements about the subject. They violate WP:BLP, specifically "Balance" ;
 * "' Care must be taken with article structure to ensure the overall presentation and section headings are broadly neutral. Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association, and biased or malicious content.'"
 * These super-sections were simply somebody's idea for change. To 'make their mark', so to speak, to make these articles look... different? nice? whatever. They were poorly conceived and implemented. These articles need to be reverted back to their original layouts. The layouts supported by policy and found within the majority of BLP's here. -  thewolfchild   23:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

OK
Well, that's 7 days now. It seems my point stands. Next is figuring out the best way to improve these articles, to make them more accessible for readers and to better conform to WP policy. -  thewolfchild  07:56, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I support BLP having "personal life" sections. It's simply a way to organize the page and in no way infers that things under this section can't also contribute to career advance (if cited). This is like arguing that scientists shouldn't have a separate "research" section becasue it contributed to their "teaching career" section, or that Athletes shouldn't have separate pro and amateur sections becasue it is all part of their "career". If we go down this road, we will lose almost any categorization structure that makes an article readable. I can just imagine how misguided it would be mixing Michael Jordan's "Media figure and business interests" section in with his sports career. Unless you read the whole article, you would have no clue that he was "one of the most marketed sports figures in history". A fact worthy of its own section despite the fact that his sports career directly contributed to the "Media" section. Where is there a Wikipedia guideline that says sections need to be mutually exclusive? I for one regularly jump to the "Personal Life" section of a BLP to get a sense the person. -- <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 18:43, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Individual being an international authority on the subject is opinion; not fact.
"Dubious"

Individual being an international authority on the subject is opinion; not fact. Individual has not published over a 100 articles in peer-reviewed journals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pwadlington (talk • contribs) 21:18, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

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Death Anton Hafner
Bobby Oxspring is credited with possibly killing Antone Hafne in January 1943, this cannot be correct as Hafne died 17 oct 1944 on the Eastern Front according to his Squadron history, he died after scoring his 204th victory, hitting trees while low flying during the combat.88.110.85.149 (talk) 19:05, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * No where in either the Hafner nor the Oxspring article does it say Oxspring killed Hafner, he did indeed shot him down, Hafner spent six months in hospital after this. Murry1975 (talk) 19:16, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Jay Benedict in Star Wars Episode IV
Should it be mentioned in his article that the scene he appears in is now included in the Blu-Ray release? 108.0.244.168 (talk) 03:44, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Addressing some concerns with the David Marchick article
Hello, I'm currently working on behalf of David Marchick to address some issues with his article here on Wikipedia. Late last year, a number of major additions were made by User:Uzma Gamal, many of which are problematic for a number of reasons; I've provided a detailed breakdown over at Talk:David Marchick. One other editor, User:Herostratus, has weighed in with his thoughts, but I'd like to hear from another editor or two so we can reach consensus about how to move forward with the article. If anyone here has time to pop over and provide their opinion, it would certainly be appreciated. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 14:38, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Did Lordes sing on Top of the Lake?
When I recently heard Lordes hit song "Royals" on the radio, I immediately wondered if she had sung on the recent New Zealand series Top of the Lake. Her voice is so distinctive, I really thought so, but it isn't mentioned in her WikiProject Biography or in articles I read about this excellent TV series. SusanMagoozan (talk) 22:58, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This question is more appropriate to ask on the talk page for the article about Lordes. However, it's not likely she was used in the show. I found no Google hits that link her to the show. She is not on the Soundtrack. And it appears that she has no Studio works prior to the release of "The Love Club LP" which was released two months after "Top of the Lake" got its first screening at Sundance in January. <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 01:34, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Attention needed at Fraz Wahlah
Hello everyone. Can someone please take a look at article Fraz Wahlah and the discussion at the talk page. The article that before I trimmed it down had glorified the subject that didn't sound encyclopedic at all. Most of the sources failed verification that I removed and the article was twice tagged as A class article that was also reverted. Now an IP instead of addressing most of the issues has accused me of having a grudge against the subject, So I request attention of un-involved editors there. Thanks -- S M S  Talk 21:28, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Jack Soifer: não vejo razão para sua exclusão
Mais uma vez, gostaria de confirmar o valor profissional do Sr. Soifer. Sua longa experiencia em consultoria, seja a nivel de Governo, seja a nivel privado, bem como seu largo conhecimento sobre turismo sustentavel e equacionamento de problemas que afetam o desempenho de pequenas e medias empresas. À luz de sua biografia não vejo porque Jack Soifer deva ser excluido da Wikipedia.-Silvando Cardoso, economista senior, Rio de Janeiro (BR) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.205.20.166 (talk) 01:00, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Recent edits to C-SPAN founder Brian Lamb's article
Hello, I'm looking for editors who are available to review two recent edits to the Brian Lamb article that I find a little concerning. As I'm addressing these edits on behalf of C-SPAN, I'll avoid any direct edits to the article, instead I'm hoping an editor here can take a look and make changes as appropriate. My Talk page message provides more detail, but in short one edit added a very minor award Lamb received and is very clearly the work of an intern for the organization that gives the award. The second edit was a slight alteration to the introduction to refer to Lamb as a "businessman", which I don't feel is the most accurate way to introduce him.

I'd like to hear what other editors think of these changes and have suggested some solutions on the Talk page for consideration. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 22:49, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. See comments at the article's talk page. <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 06:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I've replied there but just in case you don't see it, everything looks great and I'm very grateful for your help. 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 12:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

People (magazine)/People.com at Brad Pitt article or other WP:BLPs
Opinions are needed on this matter: Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Flyer22 (talk) 16:27, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

talat aziz
it states that talat aziz studied from class i to 12 in hyderabad public school; this totally wrong. he was a class mate of mine in st georges grammer school abids from class 1 to class 11.his family then migrated to pakistan,and as things did not get on well there they returned to hyderabad,and he joined hyderabad public school in 1969 or 70. during the 75th anvisary of hyderabad public school he was called as a guest .and he claimed he studied ,there there was a lot of booing then from othere who knew about him. dr k prapul chandra mohd alam khan ahmed salim jacob punnose kishore reddy azar tehsin we are all classmates of talt. hi traitor talat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.207.87 (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You need to take this to Talk:Talat Aziz. Please note that to add or change content in a biography of a living person, the information must be cited by published reliable secondary sources, as Wikipedia policy prohibits original research. Thanks.--JayJasper (talk) 20:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

British Biographical Index
I have just recently checked out of my university library the British Biographical Index, 1990 edition. Full text to the most recent 2008 edition is available online (apparently in a PDF format) at a charge. The most recent 2008 edition is expanded from 330,000 entries to 420,000 and apparently covers much more of the 20th century. I was wondering if Wikipedia already has the entries (redlinks and all) indexed somewhere on it or how I might be able to find out? If it does not have it indexed, I would like to create an index that all of Wikipedia can use so that Wikipedia editors can create articles for the redlinks. As I am unsure where is best to post this message, I have also posted it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Assessment. Thank you.Hoops gza (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The British have several such Biographical Dictionaries. That fact that this dictionary's entry is just a stub, I doubt there is a comprehensive list anywhere on Wikipedia. Inclusion in these dictionaries is not alone considered significant coverage for deeming someone notable. But they do serve as a great guide for finding the sources the dictionary used for their entry criterion. You might want to hop over to the WikiProject England to see if there is some Anglophiles wanting to help out with this. Another option is to create the list yourself in your userspace and recruit projects to help create biography pages. I did just that when the Who's Who in Contemporary Women's Writing page was deleted. I've had a lot of luck finding people here and there to create a biography off that list. <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 00:08, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

'Music Videos and DVDs' section
'[...] the Pixies never achieved major coverage on MTV.' I know this comment was made by the band's record label, but it should be contested nevertheless. I watched a lot of - albeit European - MTV in 1989, and I can assure you that the music videos for 'Here Comes Your Man' and 'Monkey Gone to Heaven' were played on a regular basis. The only reason I remember this is because I'd never really watched much MTV before then, and I was kind of surprised that a band as alternative as the Pixies were given so much air time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.0.249.113 (talk) 01:39, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You will likely get more response if you take the issue to Talk:Pixies.--JayJasper (talk) 17:46, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Call for Romain Poiet to be investigated for Match fixing
Numerous calls by Rugby fans from around the world are calling for an investigation into the Springbok / All Black debacle last weekend. The IRB have called this sham "human error". This with two assistant referees, a TMO , and slow motion television replay. The IRB are treating rugby fans like imbeciles and should be held to account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.228.134.50 (talk) 16:09, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Suggestions for Geoff S. Morrell article
Hi. I have left a message on the Geoff S. Morrell talk page with a few updates I would like to suggest for the article. Geoff Morrell is a former Press Secretary for the Department of Defense and the current senior vice president of U.S. Communications and External Affairs at BP. His article has not been updated in some time and in fact does not mention that he currently works for BP. I'm hoping that someone here will be able to review my request and help out.

Since I don't believe I've ever posted on this WikiProject before I'd like to introduce myself and explain my role here. I am BP's representative on Wikipedia and am working to update articles related to the company. Because of my connection to the subject, I will not make any edits to this article, or any other article related to BP. Here is the discussion I started on the article's talk page. Thanks. Arturo at BP (talk) 21:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at it for you. -- <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 23:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Recent edits to C-SPAN founder Brian Lamb's article
Hello, I'm looking for editors who are available to review two recent edits to the Brian Lamb article that I find a little concerning. As I'm addressing these edits on behalf of C-SPAN, I'll avoid any direct edits to the article, instead I'm hoping an editor here can take a look and make changes as appropriate. My Talk page message provides more detail, but in short one edit added a very minor award Lamb received and is very clearly the work of an intern for the organization that gives the award. The second edit was a slight alteration to the introduction to refer to Lamb as a "businessman", which I don't feel is the most accurate way to introduce him.

I'd like to hear what other editors think of these changes and have suggested some solutions on the Talk page for consideration. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 22:49, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. See comments at the article's talk page. <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 06:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I've replied there but just in case you don't see it, everything looks great and I'm very grateful for your help. 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 12:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

People (magazine)/People.com at Brad Pitt article or other WP:BLPs
Opinions are needed on this matter: Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Flyer22 (talk) 16:27, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

talat aziz
it states that talat aziz studied from class i to 12 in hyderabad public school; this totally wrong. he was a class mate of mine in st georges grammer school abids from class 1 to class 11.his family then migrated to pakistan,and as things did not get on well there they returned to hyderabad,and he joined hyderabad public school in 1969 or 70. during the 75th anvisary of hyderabad public school he was called as a guest .and he claimed he studied ,there there was a lot of booing then from othere who knew about him. dr k prapul chandra mohd alam khan ahmed salim jacob punnose kishore reddy azar tehsin we are all classmates of talt. hi traitor talat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.207.87 (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You need to take this to Talk:Talat Aziz. Please note that to add or change content in a biography of a living person, the information must be cited by published reliable secondary sources, as Wikipedia policy prohibits original research. Thanks.--JayJasper (talk) 20:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

'Music Videos and DVDs' section
'[...] the Pixies never achieved major coverage on MTV.' I know this comment was made by the band's record label, but it should be contested nevertheless. I watched a lot of - albeit European - MTV in 1989, and I can assure you that the music videos for 'Here Comes Your Man' and 'Monkey Gone to Heaven' were played on a regular basis. The only reason I remember this is because I'd never really watched much MTV before then, and I was kind of surprised that a band as alternative as the Pixies were given so much air time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.0.249.113 (talk) 01:39, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You will likely get more response if you take the issue to Talk:Pixies.--JayJasper (talk) 17:46, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

British Biographical Index
I have just recently checked out of my university library the British Biographical Index, 1990 edition. Full text to the most recent 2008 edition is available online (apparently in a PDF format) at a charge. The most recent 2008 edition is expanded from 330,000 entries to 420,000 and apparently covers much more of the 20th century. I was wondering if Wikipedia already has the entries (redlinks and all) indexed somewhere on it or how I might be able to find out? If it does not have it indexed, I would like to create an index that all of Wikipedia can use so that Wikipedia editors can create articles for the redlinks. As I am unsure where is best to post this message, I have also posted it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Assessment. Thank you.Hoops gza (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The British have several such Biographical Dictionaries. That fact that this dictionary's entry is just a stub, I doubt there is a comprehensive list anywhere on Wikipedia. Inclusion in these dictionaries is not alone considered significant coverage for deeming someone notable. But they do serve as a great guide for finding the sources the dictionary used for their entry criterion. You might want to hop over to the WikiProject England to see if there is some Anglophiles wanting to help out with this. Another option is to create the list yourself in your userspace and recruit projects to help create biography pages. I did just that when the Who's Who in Contemporary Women's Writing page was deleted. I've had a lot of luck finding people here and there to create a biography off that list. <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 00:08, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Call for Romain Poiet to be investigated for Match fixing
Numerous calls by Rugby fans from around the world are calling for an investigation into the Springbok / All Black debacle last weekend. The IRB have called this sham "human error". This with two assistant referees, a TMO , and slow motion television replay. The IRB are treating rugby fans like imbeciles and should be held to account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.228.134.50 (talk) 16:09, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Suggestions for Geoff S. Morrell article
Hi. I have left a message on the Geoff S. Morrell talk page with a few updates I would like to suggest for the article. Geoff Morrell is a former Press Secretary for the Department of Defense and the current senior vice president of U.S. Communications and External Affairs at BP. His article has not been updated in some time and in fact does not mention that he currently works for BP. I'm hoping that someone here will be able to review my request and help out.

Since I don't believe I've ever posted on this WikiProject before I'd like to introduce myself and explain my role here. I am BP's representative on Wikipedia and am working to update articles related to the company. Because of my connection to the subject, I will not make any edits to this article, or any other article related to BP. Here is the discussion I started on the article's talk page. Thanks. Arturo at BP (talk) 21:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at it for you. -- <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 23:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Mithun Roy Chowdhury
Mithun Roy Chowdhury was born in Magura District on 28 August 1985, as the youngest son of Nitai Roy Chowdhury, Former Minister of Peoples Republic of Bangladesh. On 1990 Mithun Roy Chowdhury attended YWCA School, Dhaka before entering Motijheel Government Boys High School, Dhaka from 1991-2001. Meanwhile he joined in politics as a member of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party's (BNP) Student Organization, Bangladesh Jatiyatabadi Chhatra Dal. Thereafter in September 2001 Mithun Roy Chowdhury joined at Dhaka College for his Higher Secondary Certificate(HSC) education but moved to Holborn College, London for 'A' levels and  after finished  he joined University of Wolverhampton for his undergraduate education on September 2003 and after finished his Graduation in Law he moved to University of Northambia, UK for his Post graduation, LLM in International Trade & Contract. And thereafter, he came back to his country, Bangladesh and joined at Chowdhury & Assocites, Law Firm. He is a regular practicing Lawyer and member of Bangladesh Bar Council & Dhaka Bar Association. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zillur Eahman (talk • contribs) 04:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Ethnicity of Prithviraj Kapoor
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Prithviraj Kapoor. -- Trevj (talk) 08:18, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Please participate in an RfC to determine if People magazine is a reliable source for BLPs
The RfC is here: Reliable_sources/Noticeboard -- Neil N  <sup style="font-family:Calibri;"> talk to me  00:22, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Prof Stank Karaman
Distinguished you can see and check here (see below link), that Prof Stank Karaman was a biologist. Sincerely Julian

http://www.pmcg.co.me/Partners_of_Museum/Karaman%20Gordan.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.5.238.156 (talk) 13:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

GAR
Zodiac Killer, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Dana boomer (talk) 23:28, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Bradley Manning/October 2013 move request‎
Greetings! In accordance with the conditions set forth in the previous discussion of the Bradley Manning/Chelsea Manning title dispute, a new move request has been filed and is now underway. bd2412 T 20:52, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Creation of Joe Hollywood
Actor/reality tv actor/internet celebrity, please create this article - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5647420/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.52.173 (talk) 05:37, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Lo Graf von Blickensdorf


The article Lo Graf von Blickensdorf has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No evidence of notability. IMDB shows one episode of a TV show and one short film, nothing more.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:03, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

""
The usage of is under discussion, see talk:Curtis Hughes -- 76.65.129.3 (talk) 04:51, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

bad link
The link for "First and Last" goes to the Galsworthy play, not to the Frayn work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:700:300:1305:E108:D8AF:A8A5:F0EA (talk) 08:29, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Louise Boyd
I was surprised when I read the BIO Louise Arner Boyd (September 16, 1887 – September 14, 1972) was an American explorer of Greenland and the Arctic, who wrote extensively of her explorations, and in 1955 became the first woman to fly over the North Pole privately chartering a DC-4 and crew that included aviation pioneer.

I believe this to be incorrect - I have an article stating a 27 year old nurse serving with the Air Force in Alaska was the first woman to fly over the north pole. This article is dated January 31, 1949. "Miss Flynn flew over the pole last Wednesday night at 11:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.51.130.229 (talk) 01:02, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Need help with page name change please
I represent H.E.Sun Chanthol who just saw his wikipedia page and noted that his name is misspelled. He has personally asked me to have someone correct it to his correct spelling of his name. Currently the page is titled "Sun Chan Thol". This is NOT a transliteration as one editor commented but an incorrect spelling. Anyone living in Cambodia will know that the correct spelling is " Sun Chanthol". Could an editor kindly make that change for him? He just took over the aministry of Commerce and would like his name spelled correctly for global reference. I would be glad to communicate personally with anyone that doubts this misspelling and forward a personal email from him in this regard if deemed necessary. Thanks! Peter PeterBachner (talk) 09:46, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I have done that for you, the article could do with more references too. Theroadislong (talk) 10:10, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

hello pals
Hello pals! :))) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.217.200.9 (talk) 08:00, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Michael York.
years ago I seen a movie with Michael York, an would love to find out what the name of it was, if anyone can help me... all I remember is he was supposed to be a child an was in this bedroom ( from around the 16 hundreds ) and was on the bed as if he was riding a horse or wooden horse... then late on  in the movie, he was outside on the beach riding a white horse... could someone help me find this movie,,, please. cherrakee59@yahoo.com... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:5B0:23FF:1CF0:0:0:0:3B (talk) 22:02, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

The OTHER Seth Rollins
Hi-just to be up-front, this is my first time posting on Wikipedia, please forgive me if I am unaware of certain guidelines. I am more than willing to learn, please just let me know.

I have an issue with this page and entry, as there is another entertainer/musician named Seth Rollins. How do I go about editing or adding the other entertainer to this page?

thank you

Sirigotthis (talk) 13:32, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Kim Ung-yong, wrong date
The information is different depending on which language the article is read in. The english version states Kim Ung-yong appeared on japanese television in 1977 while the dutch version states it was in 1967. Obviously they can't both be right. I noticed this and thought I should report it. I hope this is the right place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.198.248.161 (talk) 19:52, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

RfC on Charlie Chaplin's birth date
I have opened an RfC on the Charlie Chaplin article, since there is some uncertainty over what date we should give as his birthday. The information and RfC can be found here: Talk:Charlie_Chaplin. Any input would be much appreciated. --<font color="#CC0O66">Loeba (talk) 11:54, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

RfC: Should publicly-available, but obscure, information be included if it compromises the subject's family's privacy?
I posted this RfC at Talk:Alishan Bairamian two weeks ago, and it's only received 2 comments. I'm posting about it here to draw more attention to it. I believe this does not violate WP:CANVASS; if I'm wrong, please remove it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:52, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Emma Harrison (entrepreneur)
A recently registered user has blanked large portions of Emma Harrison (entrepreneur) without any explanation. I've reverted it twice and posted a warning but don't want to get into an edit war. The article could do with a clean up but they appear to be attempting to rewrite the article to show the subject in a more favorable light by removing any reference to the subjects appointment and subsequent resignation from a government post, despite this information being fully referenced. Some more eyes on the article may help. Thanks. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 14:25, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * As they escalated their actions the user has now been blocked - the article could still do with some work though. Thanks Bladeboy1889 (talk) 14:53, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Categorization of where people are from
I have lost track of the number of biography articles I've encountered over the years where the only "People from" categorization existing in the article relates to where the person was born. In too many cases, this birthplace was incidental (such as someone from a rural area whose mother temporarily moved to a population center to give birth, for example) and they lived in other places, including and particularly places where they accomplished the things which made them notable. Too much trouble to deal with, I guess. I understand that "The Church of Born and Raised" is a little too prevalent on here. However, this is a major ongoing problem. Is there any easy way to deal with this other than wiping it from untold thousands of articles one by one? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 02:27, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Proposed split
A split of List_of_doping_cases_in_sport has been suggested at Talk:List_of_doping_cases_in_sport. Please feel free to comment and discuss so that a consensus can be established. Thank you. Hasteur (talk) 15:12, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

GA review for Rakim
Rakim has been nominated for Good Article review. Editors are invited to comment on the article, especially those who have not made significant contributions to the article. — Sasuke Sarutobi (talk) 08:51, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Efroimsky
I tried to amend the reference to the book by writing in its ISBN: 978-3-527-40856-6

I thought it would automatically provide a link to http://www.wiley-vch.de/publish/en/books/bySubjectPH00/ISBN3-527-40856-8/?sID=p2qlnooj68su7htl8qrrc2qjt3

, but it didn't

Can you please help me to establish the link?

Many thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.211.133.254 (talk) 21:05, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The ISBN goes within the citation. I changed it—take a peek czar  ♔  02:56, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Request to Edit/Expand Natasha Katz Page
I noticed that the Natasha Katz page could use some touching up, and if it would be possible to go in and edit, organize, and rearrange the information so it flows better. I would be doing this on behalf of a project for my Women and Gender Studies course at university. LindseyKasper (talk) 02:27, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, the article isn't protected from editing and you're not restricted from editing, so you don't need permission. Is your prof's course listed with the Education program? It would help if it was, so it could get support from other Wikipedians. If this is your first time editing, the program has a quick overview of WP's standards and expectations. Also I recommend posting a plan or outline for your expansions on the article's talk page for feedback. Let me know if you need anything czar  ♔  14:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Sylvia Kugler
I would very strongly recommend this page to be deleted/removed. She is a part time actress in Munich theaters and D-movies (see also wiki page "Angelina Amaris")and a trickster. (HON) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.110.9.101 (talk) 10:24, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Help with graphs regarding Governor of Puerto Rico and domestic policies
I created two graphs regarding economic activities related to Governor Alejandro García Padilla which are referenced and verifiable. However, some editors keep removing the graphs from the article even though we do the very same thing for other heads of government such as Barack Obama (see http://i.imgur.com/BzgXZ6p.png ). There is an ongoing dispute resolution discussion at Dispute resolution noticeboard and I need some help in showing this people that this is more than fine as these graphs are referenced, verifiable, neutral, and do not constitute original research. Interestingly, the second graph shows up that his measures are helping the economy since his last month created more jobs but since most of the outcome is negative these guys want the graphs removed. I explained how these graphs were created in the discussion linked. &mdash;Ahnoneemoos (talk) 14:41, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Request for Removal of Warning on Barry Jon Beck
Other wikipedia articles do in fact link to this page, so I'm wondering why there is a warning — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.236.52.18 (talk) 16:19, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Article request: Henry Dixon (photographer)
Wikimedia has several photographs contributed by the British Library taken in the 19th century by Henry Dixon (1820 - 1892). We could do with an article on him.

http://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/collage/app?service=external/ExhibitionItem&sp=39047&sp=X http://www.photolondon.org.uk/pages/details.asp?pid=1240 both suggest he was pretty notable.

I'm an editor of location articles, I'm afraid I'd have no idea how to start a Biography one! --Robert EA Harvey (talk) 07:08, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Venn citation template
May I have your thoughts about possible changes to at Template talk:Venn.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Notice of RfC: Rupert Sheldrake
Please consider commenting here, if you're previously uninvolved. David in DC (talk) 13:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Notice of CFD Category:Burials in catacombs
Category:Burials in catacombs has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. Please comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:09, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Notice of CFD: Category:Burial place unknown
Category:Burial place unknown has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. Please comment at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:09, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Rich people
I'm making my own little subpage on rich people, plutocrats, billionaires—no official effort that requires a title (project/work group) and most likely coordinating on my own talk page, but biographies on people who influence via money, an area I find relatively undeveloped in the encyclopedia. I wanted to test the waters here to see if there is any mutual interest in collaborating. Let me know here or on my talk page and I'll figure out where to put my collection of redlinks. czar ♔  21:00, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Haven't heard anything from this posting, so looks like I'm going solo. Drop me a line if you find this in the archives some time in the future and are interested in collaborating. Eye close font awesome.svg czar  ♔  05:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

New article and move: Lajos Jánossy -> Jánossy Lajos?
If possible, some opinions on the talk page of this new article would help, concerning a move from Lajos Jánossy -> Jánossy Lajos. Thanks, M&and;Ŝc2ħεИτlk 06:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Article review/critique
I've just translated the article Giulio d'Este from its Italian version (it was previously just a stub), and I'd appreciate it if some people took a look at it and made suggestions. Thanks! GrassHopHer (talk) 20:41, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Evelyn King (singer)
Anybody interested in discussing move request on the article? --George Ho (talk) 23:40, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Request for upgrade of Talwin Morris from Stub status
I've just undertaken a major rewrite and expansion of the page on Art Nouveau designer Talwin Morris. I think it should now no longer be Stub status Duncanchappell (talk) 16:35, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Glen Ridge rape
The topic of this article is highly sensitive. The article says that the mentally-challenged girl with a mind of "8-year-old" was raped, yet the boys were acquitted of all charges, including one convicted of conspiracy. And it's mostly unsourced. I think about taking this to WP:BLPN, but I want to bring this here first. --George Ho (talk) 04:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * BLPN best. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 17:59, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

RM on Charice
Greetings! I have recently opened a requested move discussion at Talk:Charice Pempengco, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, Raykyogrou0 ( Talk ) 05:26, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Additional suggestions for Geoff Morrell
Recently, I asked here for some assistance with the article for BP's SVP of US communications & external affairs, Geoff Morrell, and an editor from this WikiProject was kind enough to review my suggestions. I am returning as I now have some further suggestions for that article and hope that once again editors here can provide their thoughts. There are a number of requests but each is small, making a minor update or correction. If you are able to help, the full requests are on the Geoff Morrell (spokesperson) talk page, here. As I mentioned previously, I am the representative for BP on Wikipedia, so I will refrain from making any edits to the article. Thanks. Arturo at BP (talk) 19:05, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I am still looking for an editor who can help with this if someone here is available. Thanks. Arturo at BP (talk) 15:45, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Genus/Genera and genealogy v biology in categories
FYI, a discussion on naming and disambiguating categories that use the terms "genus" and "genera" is under way, related to the biology and genealogy senses. For the discussion, see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biology -- 65.94.78.9 (talk) 05:39, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Ann Florini
The article "Ann Florini" has been edited four times (Special:Contributions/Aflorini) by User:Aflorini, and one of those times a reference tag was mangled. I am hesitant to correct the reference tag without checking the other changes, for which someone else might be more qualified. —Wavelength (talk) 20:43, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Potential closure of the SSDI
The recently touted U.S. "Bipartisan Budget Act of 2013" contains a provision that would close access to the Social Security Death Index. This is a database that many Wikipedians use to provide and verify dates of birth and death. To find more information about this (and to add your voice against closure), see this blog post: http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2013/12/12/vote-looms-on-ssdi-closure/ -- kosboot (talk) 22:16, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Signatures in biography infoboxes
I fail to see the utility in having signatures in biography infoboxes. It's interesting trivia, but I don't think it's really vital information that the reader must know. Furthermore, the infoboxes serve as summarizes of information from the lede and the article. A signature is not really a "summary" of anything. I suspect people want to put the signature image somewhere in the article, but they can't figure out where so it has ended up in the infobox. I consider showing the signatures interesting, but mostly non-notable trivia. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:46, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Discussion regarding Congressional Gold Medal as a notability factor.
A discussion about the Congressional Gold Medal as a notability factor is underway at WT:BIO. See: WT:Notability (people). – S. Rich (talk) 02:41, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

RfC at Claude Monet re: number of images
Please join in the discussion at Talk:Claude Monet about the number and choice of images in the galleries. Curly Turkey (gobble) 08:50, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Jose breaux
Notable? --S.G.(GH) ping! 13:14, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

"Mulan"
The meaning of "Mulan" is under discussion, see talk:Mulan (disambiguation) -- 65.94.78.9 (talk) 15:00, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Dennis Kardon
49 Jewish Noses, Kardon's best known piece, gained attention in the exhibition Too Jewish, Challenging Traditional Identities at the Jewish Museum in 1996.

This sentence starts with a number, but it is part of a title, but this shouldn't be written this way. If this is incorrect, can somebody change it? Robert (talk) 01:36, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Onias ii discussion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onias_II "when his father died, so that his uncle Eleazar, and after him the latter's uncle Manasseh"... "Joseph, the clever son of Tobias and nephew of Onias, succeeded in pacifying Ptolemy III (Euergetes). Onias is said to have died, almost simultaneously with his nephew Joseph"

I can't tell who is who here. Which Simon the just/Simon the righteous was Onias ii's/Chuniu ii's father? (Is it more likely to be Simon i or Simon ii?) Was Manasseh the uncle of Eleazar? Was Joseph the son of Onias iv's brother? Chuniu iii's brother? Chuniu i's brother? Was Tobias the son of Onias's sister?... Was Onias iii said to have died? Onias ii said to have died? Onias i said to have died?

Just hoping someone else knows better, can sort them out, and revise the wording to clarify as much as possible.

jgo 2013-12-25 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.44.86.23 (talk) 05:37, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Help with Michel Ney article
The possible escape section of the Michel Ney article is very poorly sourced. I have removed it several times, citing poor sourcing and WP:UNDUE. However an IP editor keeps re-inserting it, and refuses to go to the talk page to discuss it. I don't want to get into an edit war with them.

--Harizotoh9 (talk) 12:53, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Michel_Ney
 * Talk:Michel_Ney

Updated draft for Gary Loveman article
Hi, I'm looking for editors to review a proposed new draft I've prepared for the Gary Loveman article. I'm reaching out on this WikiProject hoping to find editors who are interested in helping me improve and update this short biographical article. I'm asking here, instead of making any updates myself, because I have written the draft on behalf of Gary Loveman and, because of my conflict of interest with this topic, prefer not to edit the article myself.

Currently the article is in ok shape, however it is missing more recent information about Gary Loveman and could be expanded throughout based on information I've found in reliable sources. If you're able to help with this, the request at Talk:Gary Loveman explains the changes I'm hoping to make with my updated draft and also provides a link to the draft in my user space. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 21:05, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * This is ✅, however I'm hoping to add a photo to the article soon. I may return to ask for help when I have completed the photo permissions process. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 19:00, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed Miley Cyrus WikiProject
Back in August, I proposed the creation of a Miley Cyrus WikiProject, and there hasn't been much of a response at the nomination since then. Feel free to stop by, support/oppose, or leave comments. WikiRedactor (talk) 19:46, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

RfC at Sharon Presley
I have started an RfC at Talk:Sharon Presley after a contentious AfD where there is disagreement about what sources should be included, and how included sources should be phrased. There is plenty of previous discussion at the AfD and on the talk page. Most of the editors at the talk page were involved with the AfD, and it seems like outside opinions are needed to help form consensus. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:13, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

George Hussey Packe
Could a project member assess this new one for Biog Project please ? Thanks. Acabashi (talk) 22:18, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Justin Hayward
There have been some unusual edits to Justin Hayward over the last few months and I don't know where to start with regards to cleaning any of it up. There has been blanking of referenced material and addition of lots of badly written non-referenced text.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  13:04, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I have removed a block of unreferenced blogese from the lede, added by a user account seemingly set up to add to this article. These comments, including mine, would be best added to the Hayward Talk page too, which I have done. Acabashi (talk) 14:42, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposal of WikiProject Recording Artists, restructuring of WikiProject Musicians
I have created a proposal to create a WikiProject Recording Artists, which would be split off from the existing WikiProject Musicians with the intention of redefining it as a WikiProject Instrumentalists. Since this proposal would affect a large number of people, it will be very helpful to have as much input from Wikipedians as possible. Please stop by the nomination and leave some thoughts/suggestions. Thank you, WikiRedactor (talk) 22:25, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Charles Tyers
That is: Captain Charles James Tyers RN FRSV (13 September 1806–20 September 1870)

The article states that Charles Tyers arrived in Melbourne on 1/10/1839: "On 1 October 1839 Tyers arrived in Melbourne from Sydney on the "Pyramus" I have retrieved passenger listings for the Pyramus, at her departure from Sydney, and her arrival in Melbourne. Both lists include among the passengers Mr. C. La Trobe, Esq. (who became the first Governor of Victoria), and a Mister Tyre. How was Mr Tyre (no title) identified as Mr Tyers (a RN Captain) ?

That looks odd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.149.127.67 (talk) 21:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Request for revision of Draft:Eva J. Neer, ready to become article ?
Hi everybody, being new at writing for wikipedia I would appreciate a revision of this biography draft. Is it ready to be moved to article? Thank you very much. & Very Happy New Year to all wikipedians ! 190.74.210.3 (talk) 13:27, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I took a quick look for you. First, when starting a new thread on a talk page, use the "New Section" tab in the upper right corner. This will start the thread at the bottom of the page, where other editors will expect it to be. As for the article on Eva J. Neer, the subject's scientific publications alone meet Notability (academics) requirements. So you could turn this into a main page article already. I suggest going to Articles for creation for a more formal peer review before doing so. I for one did not check the facts of the article to make sure they are cited correctly. However, before doing this, I highly recommend getting ride of URL only citations. For example, anywhere on the page you see a link that looks like this:, you should delete it and create a proper reference entry. You can ask me on my talk page if you need help learning how to do this. Also, I encourage you to create a user page and also disclose any connections you have with Eva J. Neer. Cheers, and congrats on a great start to Wikipedia. -- <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 22:30, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Richard Hatch
Ongoing move discussion; comment to improve consensus. --George Ho (talk) 09:30, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

burial of Karl I of Liechtenstein
You have mistake the city of "Brno" and the small village of "Vranov U Brna", in this second place is where is the burial of Karl I of Liechtenstein so, I have changed it.--Dafne07 (talk) 16:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Alleged child of Jerry Buss
Could you some extra eyes on Jerry Buss. An editor has been trying to add an alleged child of Buss to his actual count of children. This claim came from a palimony suit that was settled but terms were not disclosed. The name of the alleged child also seems inappropriate to mention due to WP:BLPNAME; it has rarely been mentioned, and only in the context of the lawsuit. An IP then immediately re-added the same information.—Bagumba (talk) 03:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Please comment at Kelvin Tan's ongoing peer review!
Fellow Wikipedians, I humbly present my latest contribution to this project, an article about Kelvin Tan, a blind Singaporean Mandopop singer! All members of this WikiProject are invited to support the quest to counter systemic bias on Wikipedia by commenting at this article's ongoing peer review to help it achieve GA status! May you enjoy reviewing this short, but interesting, article, as much as I enjoyed writing it! Thanks! 谢谢！Terima kasih! நன்றி! --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 12:18, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Simone de Beauvoir
Not sure if this project is much active but help is needed at Simone de Beauvoir. It is the UK's Google Doodle for today. It's not in a good state, mostly unreferenced. Many of these doodle WP biogs have 2-3 million hits each. Pairs of eyes are appreciated. Thanks Span (talk) 00:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Two articles disputed
Aaron Schock is fully-protected because of one dispute. Outrage (2009 film) is undergoing changes. Please comment on talk pages. With pleasure, George Ho (talk) 03:35, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Mack Charles Parker case suspects
Is it Notable enough to mention in the article things the about the suspects' personal lives appear here? For example, should it be mentioned J.P. Walker had a body shop? Is it also notable to say that there is a street in Poplarville named after the farmer L.C. Davis? 173.51.123.97 (talk) 09:37, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

András Schiff
Maybe we should reassess András Schiff – it's currently rated as stub, but I think it's time for another check.  George8211  //  Give a trout a home!   11:43, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Lee Smith (fiction author)
Lee Smith (fiction author) has been proposed for deletion due to being a unsourced BLP. StudiesWorld (talk) 21:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

RfC at Robert Spitzer (political scientist)
There is an RfC at Talk:Robert Spitzer (political scientist) that may be of interest to members of this project. The article is about a LIVING person. Lightbreather (talk) 03:34, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library seeks renewal (please comment)
The Wikipedia Library has grown from a collection of donations to paywalled sources into a broad open research portal for our community. New partnerships have been formed, new pilot programs started, new connections made with our library experts and likeminded institutions. We have tried to bring people together in a new sense of purpose and community about the importance of facilitating research in an open and collaborative way. Here's what we've done so far:


 * Increased access to sources: 1500 editors signed up for 3700 free accounts, individually worth over $500,000, with usage increases of those references between 400-600%
 * Deep networking: Built relationships with Credo, HighBeam, Questia, JSTOR, Cochrane, LexisNexis, EBSCO, New York Times, and OCLC
 * New pilot projects: Started the Wikipedia Visiting Scholar project to empower university-affiliated Wikipedia researchers
 * Developed community: Created portal connecting 250 newsletter recipients, 30 library members, 3 volunteer coordinators, and 2 part-time contractors
 * Tech scoped: Spec'd out a reference tool for linking to full-text sources and established a basis for OAuth integration
 * Broad outreach: Wrote a feature article for Library Journal's The Digital Shift; presenting at the American Library Association annual meeting

We've proposed a 6 month renewal request to continue and deepen this work and would appreciate your comments, concerns, thoughts, questions, or endorsements.

Cheers, Jake Ocaasit &#124; c 12:34, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Could some computer-literate person add this for me?
Hello. Can someone add this bit to Barton Macclane’s biography? I just watched this movie on TCM this morning. The TCM Info Guide told me it starred Barton Macclane. I had questions but couldn’t find it listed in his biography. Below is the bit I'ld like to add, but don't know how. Thanks.stlc

Barton MacClane [spelling shown in the movie’s credits] "Wine, Women and Horses" 1937 Opposite Peggy Bates 173.172.185.50 (talk) 18:00, 16 January 2014 (UTC) My source is the TCM guide for the week and what the movie credits say.173.172.185.50 (talk) 18:00, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Human height
Hello. Just seeking wider input at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers. Cheers.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 23:59, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's health and appearance article
Anyone willing to help out with the Michael Jackson's health and appearance article? The same back and forth mess is still going on at that article, such as with this and this edit by "new editor" Firstcomp, especially with regard to Jackson's skin color and whatever plastic surgery he might have had. See Talk:Michael Jackson's health and appearance for further detail. Flyer22 (talk) 21:53, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Copyright concerns related to your project
This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located here.

All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk.

This individual was blocked for copyright problems years ago, but the CCI was just opened because it was discovered that some of his copyvios are still published in articles. One particular issue to watch for is his copying the ODNB and it being cited to the DNB. This is a recurrent issue, although the ODNB is not the only source of his copying.

If you're willing to help out with this, I would recommend comparing the diff of his additions to the current article first to see if content remains. Many of his copy-pastes have been reverted. If the content is entirely gone, that particular listing can be closed with little time lost.

Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Reg Mueross biog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Meuross
Someone needs to have a look at this - it's a PR piece for its subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Meuross — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.144.94 (talk) 13:53, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippa_Bartolotti
I wish to challenge the deletion of a whole long-standing section 'Career'; the previous section relied - contrary to policy - on the person's own blog which was unsourced and had clear differences with other material. The revised one was sourced using primary inline sources; the only contentious part was use of a secondary source pippabartolotti.info, which could be rectified if necessary by referring to its primary sources. In any case this is preferable to relying on the person's own blog (as Ref. 1). Without any Career section - and no Early-personal-life as is common - the biography is denuded of significant content.

As the wholesale deletion is just negative, I'm asking for a discussion on what the objection was and how the section could be restored. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#https:.2F.2Fen.wikipedia.org.2Fwiki.2FPippa_Bartolotti Maxwallis (talk) 14:28, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Raymond francis (chemist)
Could there be a biography page on Raymond Francis, chemist69.230.180.107 (talk) 18:56, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Ethnicity or just antisemitism ?
I habe a general issue to the biography portal. Why is it just in every biography of a jewish investor there the fact he was born to a jewish famile is always mentioned, but in biographies of other, take for example Thomas Perkins (businessman) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Perkins_%28businessman%29#Biography) there no mention of it religion. And when being jewish is an Ethnicity then how come it is not mentioned if he is of irish english or german ethnicity or altogether? can someone relate to that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronenya (talk • contribs) 13:27, 6 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It's an anomaly of sorts, certainly, and the cause of many thousand talk page rows. How one defines a Jewish person for WP purposes, whether it is an ethnicity at all, if and when it is a religious label per se. However you will rarely see a biog of an African American or Hispanic subject without mentioning their descent in the lead / infobox. Whether these are 'ethnicities' is similarly open to debate. It's a can of worms. I would add that I have known many Jewish editors a mission to add mentions of Jewish background to articles out of community pride for the achievements of the subject. (See the Jewish Encyclopedia). I have also known many editors who have a thing about adding religious/national/ethnic labels on subjects. I challenge you to find a public figure who is an open and practising Catholic that does not have it mentioned in their biog. Hope that helps to give a little background. This discussion gives a sense of usual direction of things as editors grapple with these questions. Span (talk) 14:09, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * In addition to Spangle's insights, I would also add that bankers don't strike me as particularly public figures. So finding sources about their personal background that meet the Reliable Source mandate is likely to be difficult. It may be that Jewish bankers are more likely to have published sourced discussing their background. This may be due to traditions of discrimination and stereotypes against Jewish bankers, but it might also be due to their own public identification with their culture and/or religion. I would predict that if you look for more prominent Bankers on Wikipedia, they are likely to have their religion identified no matter what it was. Here are two bankers I found with a quick search: Paul Volcker-Federal Reserve Banker (German/Lutheran/Episcopal); J. P. Morgan-founder of JPMorgan Bank (Episcopal). I also saw some bankers with Jewish last names who's religion was not identified. I hope this helps. <font color="#153E7E"> D kriegls (<font color="#7d5515">talk to me! ) 12:21, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Recording artists
FYI, there's a proposal to create a wikiproject on recording artists, see WikiProject Council/Proposals/Recording Artists -- 70.24.244.161 (talk) 05:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

B.A.G. Fuller -- upgrade from stub class
Have made additional edits to the Benjamin Apthorp Gould Fuller page. . . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.6.85.92 (talk) 20:17, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Article upon 'Vishwanath Tiwari'
Hello, all my dear friends....I am grandson of Vishwanath Tiwari, a worldfamous businessman.A user 'Don shyam' was creted my grandfather article.There are some lines like'Samsung indian chairman'.I think this line should be edited or REMove from my grandfather's article.... because he is not chairman of samsung  india but he is a member of samsung indian marketing department.... Hope in positive editing on article Vishwanath Tiwari. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.176.177.243 (talk) 06:06, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Richard Parker (shipwrecked)
The article Richard Parker (shipwrecked) is a list of three (non-living) people and two fictional characters named "Richard Parker" who were involved in (actual or fictional) shipwrecks. It cites five sources for particulars of the three real people, but there is nothing to suggest that these five figures are a notable group, outside of this article. This seems to run afoul of Wikipedia policies on original research via synthesis and notability. I am raising my concerns at WikiProject Biography and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fictional characters, since its not clear who might have the clearest insight into these issues. Cnilep (talk) 02:09, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

error in Joseph Cookman bio
In the personnel section. it says he married On November 26, 1928. at the end of the paragraph it states they were married for 18 years, However, it says he died on August 12, 1944. I don't know why it states the length of the marrage as the dates are given. Therefore either the "18 years" needs to be changed to "16 years" or removed altogether. 98.222.48.90 (talk) 04:16, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update
As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to Wikimedia Tool Labs. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off).

Web tools, to replace the ones at ~alexz/pop, will become available over the next few weeks at popularpages. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The tool to view historical data is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available now (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. OAuth is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs.

If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the updated FAQ or contact me on my talk page. Mr.Z-bot (talk) (for Mr.Z-man ) 04:55, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Toni Tennille
Hi, I was wondering if somebody from WikiProject Biography could take a look at Toni Tennille. I've made a few suggestions for improving the article on its talk page (here, here and here, but have yet to get any feedback. Personally, I think the page layout is poor and should be reorganized. It seems that people are just adding sections without considering the overall layout of the article. Since it is subject to WP:BLP and is listed as an "article of interest" to your project, I thought I'd ask for feedback here as well. Thanks in advance - Marchjuly (talk) 05:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Actor or actress
I am sure the question of whether to call a female an actor or actress has been discussed many times, but I am struggling to find anything (the search terms are too general!). Please can anyone point me in the right direction, preferably to a style manual recommendation or to any meaningful guidance. Periglio (talk) 07:17, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * @Periglio:  Not sure if MOS:IDENTITY is exactly what your looking for, but it does seem related. You might also try asking here. That Wikiproject seems to have discussed this before on numerous occasions such as here and here. There's also this from the MOS Archives. Hope that helps. - Marchjuly (talk) 08:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thats excellent. Thanks very much Periglio (talk) 09:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Veterans life insurance
I was trying to contact Jim Garner (Kansas politician). Years ago I called him. I live near Coffeyville. I needed help to get my brother, a Vietnam veteran)out of Vegas and off the streets. Mr. Garner told me how to contact the VA in Vegas and I did eventually get my brother home and a 100% service related pension.  I will always be grateful for his help.  On November 8, 2013 my brother passed away leaving my sister and I the only family left and consequently his heirs.  I was his conservator and caretaker for almost 20 years.  I received notification each year of 3 life insurances.  My sister and I have contacted the VA in Pennsylvania about these and they acknowledge that they are valid.  For three months we have been providing information such as specific forms filled out, death certificates, court documents, banking information and everything they have asked for.  Our lawyer even sent the paperwork verifying what we sent.  Every time you call you talk to a different person and all say it is being processed or reviewed or sent to another department or some other reason for the claim not being dealt with. It has been two months since all information was sent and they are still not issuing a direct deposit, nor do they say they are going to.

My sister and I, although we are not owing on the funeral bill, do think that since all premiums were paid, the benefit should be forthcoming. We are just wondering if all veteran's families have the same problem. If so, something is wrong with the system. Some of these families are probably in need of these funds. If someone can answer this, it would be appreciated.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.183.205.31 (talk) 23:33, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Four-paragraph leads -- a WP:RfC on the matter
Hello, everyone. There is a WP:RfC on whether or not the leads of articles should generally be no longer than four paragraphs (refer to WP:Manual of Style/Lead section for the current guideline). As this will affect Wikipedia on a wide scale, including WikiProjects that often deal with article formatting, if the proposed change is implemented, I invite you to the discussion; see here: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section. Flyer22 (talk) 13:42, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Pablo Casals
I am writing to inform you that there is currently a request for comments on Talk:Pablo Casals in which some users of this project might wish to participate. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 22:46, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Unknown Rothschild heiress?
See also Talk:David René de Rothschild

I wasn't sure where to go with this, so I post it here. Almost three years ago, an IP introduced one "Olimpia Linda de Rothschild" as fourth child of David René de Rothschild, head of the French Rothschild banking family branch. Ever since then, this alleged heiress was removed and re-introduced back and forth, by an army of single-purpose accounts and exclusively Swedish IPs. Strangely enough, the name of this heiress varied all the time, from "Olimpia Linda" to "Olimpia Louise" to "Olimpia Juliet". Plus, the description usually was some dubious marketing speak.

What strikes me the most is that not only no SPA or IP ever given a reliable source for the existence of this person, but also "Olimpia [Linda/Louise/Juliet] de Rothschild" fails the Google test. now posted two documents on image dumps ( and ), making this even more suspicious.

So now I'm posting here, because I could use some help over there, to figure this out. --bender235 (talk) 16:57, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Sentence doesn't read well
Like his resignation of Treasury Secretary Leslie M. Shaw, Cortelyou was believed it was Treasury's duty to protect the banking system, but he realized that the Treasury was not equipped to maintain economic stability. WithGLEE (talk) 18:02, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Roger Morgan (designer) Page
I am trying to expand the article and am having trouble finding an image that fit with wikipedia copyright rules. Here is my sandbox: User:Swa1111/Sandbox1 comment added by Swa1111 20:03, 05 March 2014 (UTC)

Kent Hovind peer review
I have submitted the article Kent Hovind for peer review. He is an American evangelist and creationist. If you have time please give your thoughts on the article. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:39, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Joint biographies and Living people

 * This week I updated so that all 81 of the {redirects from individual people} to its 40 joint biographies are included.
 * Also, all 81 redirects are now in births and deaths categories, at least, counting (44) and  (2) as deaths categories.
 * I don't recall whether I checked redirect talk pages.
 * 33 of the joint biographies have at least one of their multiple subjects (incoming redirects from individual people) living or possibly living. All of those have talk pages that display BLP and WP BIOG banners.

Among revisions to the joint biographies I added several to, which I understood to be routine for those with at least one subject living or possibly living. That is something I thought I learned at Brothers Hildebrandt during summer 2012.

Perhaps I misunderstood. I decided to pause and count. Several of those 8 in the top center cell are there because I added them to Cat:LP this week. That is why I doubt my understanding.

P.S. I have noticed some templates Persondata, usually with a few parameters completed jointly; some with two {Persondata} for two people; many with no {Persondata}. --P64 (talk) 04:28, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Adding wikilinks
This article requires more wiki links to other articles within wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Yachenzhang/sandbox this is the page of my sandbox and I add 7 more wikilinks within wikipedia in order to improve on this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yachenzhang (talk • contribs) 21:29, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Huyshe Yeatman-Biggs
The Right Rev’d Huyshe Yeatman-Biggs, Lord Bishop of: Southwark, Worcester & Coventry;

Does anyone know why the statue has nazi cross all over his head gear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.81.42.148 (talk) 17:37, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * heading and wikilink provided --P64 (talk) 21:56, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Looking for assistance with Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam's article
Hello, I'm an employee of Verizon Communications, and I am concerned about a recent edit made to the article about Verizon's CEO, Lowell McAdam. An editor added "Religion: Judaism" to the infobox on the article, but without a source of any kind, which I understand is against Wikipedia's policies.

Because of my conflict of interest as a Verizon employee, I don't make any edits to articles directly, so I was hoping someone here could be able to look at this edit, and remove it if that seems appropriate.

Thanks so much, VZBob (talk) 16:31, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Reverted. The edit history of the IP editor revealed little but vandalism, and I don't think anybody would object if you undid deliberately unconstructive editing. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 00:04, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Adrianne Wadewitz deletion discussion notice
There is an ongoing deletion discussion taking place now about whether or not to have a biographical article about Adrianne Wadewitz on Wikipedia.
 * 1) Adrianne Wadewitz
 * 2) Articles for deletion/Adrianne Wadewitz

The discussion is at Articles for deletion/Adrianne Wadewitz.

For those newer to Wikipedia, you may wish to read Articles for deletion and Notability.

&mdash; Cirt (talk) 15:15, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Infobox spousal information
Is there a guideline or standard for providing spousal information in infoboxes? I've noticed that there are several different formats: some using templates and some not; some mentioning divorce and some not; some with an "m." and some not; some mentioning "his/her death" and some not; and some mentioning children and some not. These articles provide examples of these differences: Patrice Wymore, Anna Nicole Smith, Tom Cruise (uses a template), Peter Falk, Richard Burton. Thanks! Ca2james (talk) 15:19, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Pseudonyms
Are you sure about pseudonyms? From Pseudonym: "Pseudonyms include stage names, screen names, pen names, nicknames, aliases, gamer identifications, and regnal names of emperors, popes and other monarchs." Thus the article Pope Francis is not covered by this project? A pseudonym is not, as your text suggests it is, an identification of a fictitious person.99.65.176.161 (talk) 04:58, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

RFC Announcement
A RFC has been opened at WT:BLP regarding adding maintenance categories to mainspace articles based on missing data. Please feel free to review and comment on the proposal. Hasteur (talk) 14:50, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect image
After reviewing the White House Art collection on art project.org, I believe the painting shown in the article is actually Monchousia. 99.45.49.1 (talk) 00:10, 14 March 2014 (UTC)lwilson

FAR
I have nominated Paul Kane for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.--Jarodalien (talk) 07:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

We should create an infobox task force.
Who's with me? Jinkinson  talk to me  03:51, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * You sound like what you want are more helpers! Unfortunately, two of the major infobox proponents are under sanctions and prohibited from adding infoboxes to other people's articles, otherwise, you'd have the help you need.  Nonetheless, if you find you need some simple infoboxes added, provided you are OK with a syntax and markup-impaired liberal arts major doing them (me), feel free to ping me, as I am under no such restrictions and would be glad to help- provided that the best I usually do is use infobox person and just to the basics - but if you have specific syntax and can refer me to the relevant template, I'll do the best I can.   Montanabw (talk) 19:07, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * There already is an Infobox Wikiproject. Very many editors do not like or agree with infoboxes and seek to remove them. There is no requirement for biogs to have infoboxes. A sample of the arguments can be found here. <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">Anna (talk) 10:33, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * An equally large number of editors think that an infobox may improve an article, which is why the majority of articles have one, and liking or agreeing are poor reasons for including content or not. There is equally, of course, no requirement to remove an infobox from biogs. A summary of arguments against including an infobox exists at Disinfoboxes; some arguments in favour can be found at User:RexxS/Misinformation on boxes, a work in progress. --RexxS (talk) 16:47, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Here we go again. The vast majority of wikipedia articles have infoboxes and most REAL debate is over legitimate issues of content and layout.  The "we don't want no infoboxes" crowd is a highly vocal minority, ("very many" still being a minority) but like RexxS said, the debate is well thrashed about elsewhere, and the last thing we need is yet another forked off drama board.   Montanabw (talk) 19:07, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * No, not really "here we go again". As you will see from the above, I am not proposing removal or inclusion, just flagging up that there is a debate, sometimes heated. From Jinkinson's hidden note above, it sounds as though she/he thinks infoboxes are a given or that biogs are obliged to have them. "Another forked off drama board?" <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">Anna (talk) 19:53, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It is important to respect the views of other editors and is correct to warn others of the dangers of making assumptions. I would be happy to lend a hand to Jinkinson's efforts and support the idea of a 'task force'. I hope that everyone involved will understand that although there are plenty of articles where adding an infobox is uncontroversial, that will not always be the case and a 'task force' is best employed in carrying out uncontroversial improvements to articles. There are still no more than around 3,000,000 infoboxes transcluded on 4,500,000 articles, so there's plenty of room to update articles without ending up in conflict. --RexxS (talk) 20:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * All I have to say is no. more. dramas. in. yet. another. forum. We have enough drama at the arbcom decision.  Anna, your phrasing suggested to me that you are in the "anti-infobox" crowd, wanting to again take up some argument that they should be removed.  So if I am wrong, my apologies.  I've gotten kind of twitchy about the topic.  Deciding what infoboxes could be used and what they look like is not a problem with me. If an editor is vehement that an infobox should or should not go into an article where they are lead or primary editor, we of course can debate that on a case by case basis.  I respect the work RexxS has done in this area.  Montanabw (talk) 19:28, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * All I have to say is no. more. dramas. in. yet. another. forum. We have enough drama at the arbcom decision.  Anna, your phrasing suggested to me that you are in the "anti-infobox" crowd, wanting to again take up some argument that they should be removed.  So if I am wrong, my apologies.  I've gotten kind of twitchy about the topic.  Deciding what infoboxes could be used and what they look like is not a problem with me. If an editor is vehement that an infobox should or should not go into an article where they are lead or primary editor, we of course can debate that on a case by case basis.  I respect the work RexxS has done in this area.  Montanabw (talk) 19:28, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Notability discussion at Talk:McArthur_Wheeler
Hi. At Talk:McArthur_Wheeler there is current a discussion about whether the living subject of that biographical article is notable independently of one widely covered event. Thanks for any input, MartinPoulter (talk) 17:36, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Tori Murden
Hi, I'm wondering about the Tori Murden article - it would be great to have some help to expand it, but also how to address the issues raised in the talk page re her stoicism or however this is best described by those who study issues of pain and/or the marathon athletes' kinds of stress and trauma in extreme sports. Randolph.hollingsworth (talk) 01:43, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Template talk:Post-nominals
Input requested. Should the default size of post-nominal letters set by this template remain at 85% or be increased to 100%? -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:28, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton move request
Greetings! A proposal has been made at Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton to change the title of the article, Hillary Rodham Clinton to Hillary Clinton. This notification is provided because this article is listed as being of interest to this project. Cheers! bd2412 T 17:54, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Ernesto Tornquist, data inconsistant
The article states he built the Plaza Hotel in 1909; but that he died in 1908! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephanie L Ritchey (talk • contribs) 02:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

List of LGBT elected British politicians
I think this recent article may need some attention - there are multiple issues - I have left some comments  on its talk page.--Smerus (talk) 12:22, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer review request
Would anybody be willing to peer review Theodore Roosevelt? It got demoted from FA back in June 2008, and I have been actively working with and  to try to at least bring it back up to GA. Beforehand, a peer review would be much appreciated. Please click here to review. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 21:22, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Move proposal
Howdy everyone. I just started a move proposal over at Talk:Alan K. Simpson that concerns a few biographies. I'm bringing it to this WikiProject's attention since a lot of the discussion seems to be around the level of international recognition (as opposed to national recognition) one should have to be considered a primary topic, and if we should be sure that a subject is the most popular topic in multiple countries and not just overall among all readers, even if they are overwhelmingly so at an aggregate level.--Yaksar (let's chat) 08:50, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

AfD: Fescal
Hi, if anybody has a few minutes, some more input would be greatly appreciated at WP:Articles for deletion/Fescal to help establish whether or not the subject is notable. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:38, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

FYS Project
Haleyhebert (talk) 15:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Hey ladies Caitlynmg (talk) 15:20, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

hiKateturner333 (talk) 15:27, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Accomplishments by Michelle Haleyhebert (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Career by Caitlyn Haleyhebert (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Early life and education by Haley Haleyhebert (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Introduction by Katie Haleyhebert (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Sources: http://www.csupomona.edu/~nova/scientists/articles/caldwell.html http://www.chemistryexplained.com/Bo-Ce/Caldwell-Mary.html http://washacadsci.org/Journal/Journalarticles/V.71-4-Early%20Women%20Chemists%20of%20the%20Northeast.Nina%20Matheny%20Roscher%20and%20Phillip%20%20L.%20Ammons.pdf MJung17 (talk) 16:06, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Clay Hill (lacrosse player) AFD
Please see Articles_for_deletion/Clay_Hill_(lacrosse_player). Simply south ...... discombobulating confusing ideas for just 8 years 18:44, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

AlSharpton FBI Informant
In many of today's articles (4-8-2014) it has come to light that Sharpton was an informant and had tapped multiple lines of the Gambino and Genovese family operations. He helped furnish info on their racketeering trials - these should be added to the biography of all those involved and/or convicted in the various crimes.

S D Schmoock — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.85.188.116 (talk) 14:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Dani Behr's d.o.b.
This comes under "Things I never thought I would ever take an interest in"!!!! I've got no interest in her article whatsoever, but I notice in passing that there's been some controversy over at Talk:Dani Behr about her year of birth. Behr herself seems to have been fairly consistent over the years in saying she was born in 1974, but there's a number of WP:RS that say 1970, and a few that say 1971. Given that she's a TV presenter, I think this is a case where we invoke WP:ABOUTSELF and look for better sources - anyone got ideas, or better still access to birth certificates or school records?Le Deluge (talk) 20:15, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Personal lives of famous people
Can someone tell me what the guidelines (if any) there are for celebritys' personal lives (eg. Politics, family, etc.) on Wikipedia? If there are, somehow, no guidelines, then should we discuss them? Thanks! Twyfan714 (talk) 22:17, 3 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Guidelines for biographies of living people are here. Biography layout, style, sections etc are here. Hope that helps. <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">Anna (talk) 22:38, 3 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but unfortunately those do not really answer my question. Granted, I only glanced through them, but it seems that when discussing personal life, those guidelines seem a little vague on what constitutes relevancy for a person's personal life. The reason why I am asking is that I have seen numerous articles that feature celebrities' political beliefs as well as their children's birthdays. Granted, for some celebrities, political beliefs are important to the overall article if that is what they are partially known for (examples of this are Ted Nugent and Sean Penn). However, with other celebrities, this doesn't seem relevant (examples of this are Wil Wheaton and Natalie Portman. I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused and it seems like a grey area to me. Could you (or anyone) please clarify this for me? Thanks! Twyfan714 (talk) 22:54, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I would amost always remove a child's birthday (year of birth is ok), and in many cases the name. Even if the child's name is widely publicized they are still not public figures and don't need to be named In articles unless they have gained some notability themselves. As for political views, if reliable sources regularly talk about them as they do with say Susan Sarandon or Ted Nugent then we should have but otherwise likely not. Actors are known however for using their celebrity to advocate for political views so I don't think it's out of place to mention them. Esp if they've been activists on an issue.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 07:27, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! That helps! Twyfan714 (talk) 13:12, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that's being a little bit squeamish. Think of models such as newspaper obituaries, which will often (but not always) mention children's names, and less frequently their year of birth - but not their birthdays, which gets a bit creepy even if it can be sourced. Something like the DNB would be another model. I think you've got to play it by ear a bit, depending on the kind of weight that the sources put on their family/political life - inevitably kids will usually play a bigger part in the reporting of mothers than fathers, and it would be a bit weird to censor eg the names of Gwyneth Paltrow's poor kids, given they have had huge coverage and are chiefly notable for their "unusual" names. In other cases, "he is married with two children" will be fine. Same with political activity - a token mention of a cause should be ignored, but consistent campaigning is worthy of mention. Portman's maybe a bad example for you to use - I was aware that she was quite political even though I'm on the other side of the world and am not into the whole Hollywood thing, so I think that's fine to include. If she takes the vegan thing seriously enough to launch products in that category, then again that seems fair enough - but mentioning her environmental causes as a kid seems a bit too much. As ever, let the sources be your guide. Le Deluge (talk) 20:46, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Nationality of people from disputed territory/country/colony/region
I have encountered many bio articles that follow the style guidelines and list/mention only one nationality for people from disputed areas, which are potentially offensive/objectionable to the people belonging to the ignored nationality in the dispute. These include people from former colonies, those countries no longer exist, as well as Scottish and Welsh people.

Content disclaimer says about potentially-objectionable content: "Wikipedia's current policy is to include such content, provided it breaches neither any of our existing policies (especially Neutral point of view) nor the laws of the United States" implying that any content that breaches WP:NPOV is outside of this inclusion policy and the disclaimer. WP:NPOV is clear on things that can be viewed from two (or more) opposing (or different) points of view, that they need to be described/presented as such, never to be presented with one-sided view point.

So, when the two view points (e.g. Algerian and French, UK and Scottish, etc.) are potentially conflicting and only one side is presented, then the article is in breach of NPOV in my view, and the potential offensiveness/objectionability is not covered under the disclaimer.

I am not confident what method (new policy, additional warning/alert to style guidelines, etc.) is best to lessen the concern, or if there already is a policy that addesses this, so I am asking for comments and guidances. Background and some examples can be found on User talk:Yiba Yiba  (talk &#124; contribs) 05:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)


 * There is no reason why biographical articles should not explain nationality issues in some detail, if there are reliable sources that cover the topic. (Note that WP:NPOV does not require us to present all sides of any potentially controversial issue, but only to summarized the viewpoints as presented in reliable sources - if no reliable source supports one of the viewpoints in such a controversy, we need not (indeed should not) report it. No new policy or guideline seems necessary to cover this; WP:NPOV is clear enough, I'd say.
 * The original issue, however, was something else entirely: Whether we should retroactively change the nationality of a historical person according to modern political geography. The answer to that, obviously, is "no". The nationality of a person does not change with events after their death. We can (and often do) give the modern name and location of a place of birth for the reader's convenience, but, to use the Scottish/British example, the nationality of a 19th-century person who lived in Edinburgh does not depend on a 21st-century referendum. And Guy Moll, who was born in French Algeria to a French father, was a French national, not an Algerian, because the state of Algeria didn't exist at that time. Huon (talk) 00:38, 31 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "Unfortunately in this case, some external sources (e.g. 8W, FindAGrave and grandprixhistory.org) describe him as Algerian, whereas others (e.g. FORIX (subscription site)) describe him as French." This info was offered by User:DH85868993 on his Talk page.  In most of Scottish and Welsh examples, I'm sure we could find reliable sources, especially legal documents, refering to them as British or UK nationals, in addition to many other reliable sources refering to them as Scottish/Welsh.
 * I am not suggesting to change the nationality of a historical person retroactively. In the case of Guy Moll, the Algerian country did not exist, but a French region called Algeria did (just like Scotland does exist today), and many sources in his lifetime called him Algerian.  The 'nationality' in biography style guideline may be subject to debate to mean nationality, regional-affiliation, cultural-affiliation, citizenship, ethnicity, etc., but that is beside the point I am making, and guidelines don't have the priority to override policies even if this question has some bearing.   Yiba  (talk &#124; contribs) 05:21, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I think in the cases mentioned, there is a clear correct answer - since 1707 Scots are British nationals (some nationalists might oppose this, but its an undeniable fact and there are certainly no NPOV issues with stating it). As far as I can see, the Moll case is also straighforward - nationality-wise he is French (Algeria wasn't even a colony at the time, but actually part of France proper). However, in cases like this, the text it should be made clear that he was born in what is today Algeria (as the article currently does). I have used this approach in historical biographies without complaint (an example being Yitzhak Berman - "Born in Berdychiv in the Russian Empire (today in Ukraine)"). Number   5  7  11:18, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the comment. It seems something got lost in the course of my changing the format of the request from request for help to RfC.  I am not asking if any person should be described as Algerian, French, Scottish, Welsh or anything else.  I am presenting my concern that "stating one side only" may be in violation of WP:NPOV, and if so, many articles may be exposing Wikipedia to the potential legal liability arising from these articles not being covered by the Content disclaimer, and asking for comments and guidances as to the best course of action.  I hoped this is presented above with sufficient clarity, but if not, please accept my apology.  What originally triggered this discussion is my question on NPOV "what do we do if we practically can't present both sides?", but I can wait on that question until the larger issue of potential legal liability is resolved.
 * The word 'Nationality' could mean several different things (1.Nationality in narrower definitions like requirement on sovereignty or European Convention on Nationality, 2. Regional affiliation, 3. Cultural affiliation, 4. Citizenship, 5. Classification according to a governing body of a particular field of notability, 6. Ethnicity, 7. National identity, 8. Passport ownership, etc.) and I used the term with broad definition including all the items in the parentheses. As an example, if we call Howard Winstone a British or Welsh is not the issue, but if we use only one of the two descriptions in the article and in the categorizations within the article is.  The current Winstone article describes him "was a Welsh world champion boxer" and categorizes him under "Nationality: Welsh" in the infobox with reference to a source describing him as Welsh, without presenting British view with due weight.  I feel there would be many reliable sources (especially legal records/documents) that describe many Scottish and Welsh people as British/UK nationals, in addition to many other reliable sources describing them as Scottish/Welsh.  Your example Yitzhak Berman uses an infobox that doesn't have Nationality in the format, and the description looks fine (not one-sided) to me.
 * Let me call your attention to item 5. in the above parentheses, which could be quite unique from other items. One example is the nationality classification of International Olympic Committee, and following (mostly only) this classification seems to be prevalent among articles on Olympics athletes without regard to if dispute exists.   Yiba  (talk &#124; contribs) 14:48, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no legal liability issue if the information is sourced reliably, and anyone bringing up that kind of nonsense should be directed to WP:NLT. Number   5  7  12:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Legally, nationality means that someone is subject to a specific state. So people do not have Scottish nationality, they are UK nationals.  A person of course can have dual or multiple nationality.  I suggest legal nationality should be shown in the infobox.  When describing someone in the article, the ethnicity mentioned should be how they are normally described.  So Robbie Burns (b. 1759) should be described as a Scottish poet, but his nationality was British.  TFD (talk) 02:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Nationality article reads: In English, the same word is used in the sense of an ethnic group (a group of people who share a common ethnic identity, language, culture, descent, history, and so forth). This meaning of nationality is not defined by political borders or passport ownership and includes nations that lack an independent state (such as the Scots, Welsh, English, Basques, Kurds, Tamils, Hmong, Inuit and Māori). But it's not sourced so I don't know if we can rely on that!
 * The simple solution is to say both X nationality and Y ethnicity, when the differ, and especially in cases where individuals may contest the national state's right to impose its will on them as in the Tibet Autonomous Region of the Government of China, most Catholics in Northern Ireland, many Native Americans in the Americas, Arabs in Israel, etc. And dual nationality always should be pointed out where it exists. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 05:04, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comment, Number 57. I have repeated this comment "there would be many reliable sources (especially legal records/documents) that describe many Scottish and Welsh people as British/UK nationals, in addition to many other reliable sources describing them as Scottish/Welsh." above, and my argument depends on reliable sourcing.
 * Thank you, TFD. I think what you suggested makes perfect sense in our normal lives.  However, this is an issue we are discussing specifically on Wikipedia articles, that are edited by people from numerous countries with different legal systems.  Please let me explain what this means for this discussion by using an example.  European Convention on Nationality(ECN) was established by Council of Europe to lessen the conflict among the laws of member nations that define nationality and handle issues related to it.  Out of 47 members, only 29 (including France, Italy, Russia, excluding UK) have signed and only 20 (excluding France, Italy, Russia) have ratified (endorsed by congress/parliament/etc.) and put in force, because (in my view) it is so difficult to agree on what nationality should legally mean. (One example why: Country A law recognizes child of male nationals to be Country A national with good historical/cultural reasons, Country B law recognizes child of female nationals to be Country B national also with good reasons.  --Yes, if your mother is from A and father is from B, you end up with no nationality.  This is not a joke.)
 * We may be talking about English-speaking editors only, but there are many english speaking Wiki editors in places like Hong Kong, Israel, South Africa or India, whose sense of "legal nationality" may be even more diverse than in Europe. Standardizing on the definitions of the US law is a reasonably-sounding idea as Content Disclaimer semi-requires us to be bound by it in editing, but the US legal definition is rather unique in that "place of birth" is the paramount factor in the determination of nationality (e.g.Henry Kissinger couldn't constitutionally run for President because he was not US-born. US Citizenship law has been eased a bit on birthplace requirement in 1986, but the priciple still stands.).  And we can easily see standardizing on this to be unacceptable for fairly presenting nationalities of many notable people in encyclopedic articles.
 * So, your suggestion may not be as simple or easily agreeable in concensus-building as well as in actual practice, especially on people from disputed areas.
 * Thank you, Carolmooredc. Your suggestion is surprisingly similar to TFD's, and may represent typical views within Wikipedia biography editors.  Thanks to your comment, I found this Citizenship and nationality in my preparation to respond.  This is a failed proposal, and the failure may indicate that it is very difficult to build a concensus on the nationality issue across all biography articles.  Luckily, what we are talking about here has a much limited scope to include only disputed areas, and the proposal (and the infobox used in Number 57's example Yitzhak Berman) gave me an idea to think about a special infobox to be used for those people from disputed areas only (including those from your list, former colonies, Scotland, Wales, etc.).  What do you (all) think?   Yiba  (talk &#124; contribs) 17:02, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is necessary at all. Scotland and Wales are not disputed territories - there is a clear correct answer in these cases. For real disputes (not that there are many) the nationality can simply be excluded from existing infoboxes. However, this should be done sparingly, as although there are a lot of nationalist editors out there who will claim there is a dispute, in reality there are very few cases where there is no definitive answer. Number   5  7  20:17, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment, Number 57. Let me repeat it one more time: "there would be many reliable sources (especially legal records/documents) that describe many Scottish and Welsh people as British/UK nationals, in addition to many other reliable sources describing them as Scottish/Welsh." If some dispute is real or not, existed or not, recognized widely or not, are secondary to "If two or more reliable sources exist(ed) that portray opposing (or different) views on nationality-like attribute." for the purposes of this discussion. Yiba (talk &#124; contribs) 01:50, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * You're completely missing the point. Being British and Scottish are not mutually exclusive. If a source describes someone as Scottish, they are automatically British, just as I am English but my real nationality is British. I really don't understand what argument you are trying to make here. Number   5  7  07:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Nationality is a legal concept accepted under international law. I think that is what readers expect when they see "nationality" in the info-box.  Certainly one may acquire more than one nationality or renounce nationality and not have it accepted.  There is no reason why the info-box should not list every nationality a person holds.  In some cases a person may renounce citizenship of country A and acquire citizenship of country B, but A considers him or her to be a sole citizen of A.  International law would tell us whether he or she was a citizen of A, B or both.  For example, in Liechtenstein v. Guatemala, 1955, the International Court of Justice determined that Nottenbohm's renunciation of German citizenship and acquisition of Liechtenstein citizenship, regardless of the laws of the nations concerned, did not change his nationality under international law.  TFD (talk) 03:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the comment and the excellent piece of info. Let me study the Nottebohm case a bit more and get back to you.  Yiba  (talk &#124; contribs) 00:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Number 57, I see your logic and it makes sense for some people. As I stated above, the word 'Nationality' has many meanings, and it seems that's where your Apple and my Orange come from.  Let me reiterate what Nationality could mean:
 * 1. Nationality in narrower definitions
 * 1-1. State power and protection over people (without requiring sovereignty or legality)
 * 1-2. Sovereign power and protection over people (requires sovereinty, but not legality)
 * 1-3. European Convention on Nationality or other sets of international definitions
 * 1-4. 'Legal' nationality defined by a set of laws within a country.
 * 2. Regional affiliation, like where a person lives or lived.
 * 3. Cultural affiliation, like a group of people sharing a particular culture/history.
 * 4. Citizenship, this is also defined by a set of laws, and is often a sub-category within legally defined 'nationals'.
 * 5. Classification according to a governing body of a particular field of notability.
 * 6. Ethnicity, like biological traits/origin.
 * 7. National identity. This means what group a person feels/believes he/she belong regardless of citizenship or ethnicity.
 * 8. Passport ownership.
 * 9. There may be other definitions not covered above.
 * I have been using the word 'nationality' to include all of the above as stated before. Carolmooredc suggested to use the above 1. within the infobox, and others (best of 2.,3.,6.,7, or combination thereof, I guess) in the body of the article.  TFD suggested the same, but "1-4. legal nationality" within 1. for infobox.  It seems these making the distinction between "1. Nationality" in the infobox and Nationality-like (2.,3.,6.,7) description in the body is a common and agreeable practice.  I explained why it is difficult to agree on what to use within 1. (especially "legal nationality"), and TFD pointed out that 1-4. legal nationality according to international law may be what a Wiki reader may expect, and may be agreeable by Wiki biography editors.  I am looking into international law and the Nottebohm case now.  Yiba  (talk &#124; contribs) 06:43, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * A few days of study on International Law can't be sufficient at all, but regarding nationality, I found the following:
 * 1. Nationality is not legally defined by International Law.
 * 2. There is a basic understanding/assumption that "matters concerning citizenship are solely the concern of the granting nation."
 * 3. "Convention on the Reduction of Cases of Multiple Nationality and on Military Obligations in Cases of Multiple Nationality of May 6, 1963" is sometimes called an international law, but is a convention established by Council of Europe, not by International Court of Justice. This convention does not define 'nationality' except for the purpose of defining the scope of the convention.
 * 4. Only when there is a serious despute on citizenship among nations, International Law steps in to resolve actual cases, and Nottebohm (Lichtenstein v. Guatemala) case was such an example.
 * 5. Nottebohm case resulted in a precedent that actual meaningful relationship (birth, marriage, residency, taxation, etc.) between a person and a nation is required for a granting of citizenship by a nation to be recognized fully by another nation.
 * 6. There have been no recent cases on Cremean people (Ukraine v. Russia) tried on International Court of Justice.
 * I need more time to think it over, but comments are welcome. A part of my thoughts says, while it would be nice to agree or build a concensus on the nationality issues on all biography articles, it may be a tough endeavor.  A better definition of the word "Nationality" for the purpose of Wikipedia edits/categorizations (un'redirect'ing Wikipedia:Nationality ?), and several reminders on possibly conflicting cases may be good enough for now.   Yiba  (talk &#124; contribs) 13:31, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Miley Cyrus proposal
Just a reminder that there is an ongoing discussion regarding the potential creation of WikiProject Miley Cyrus. All comments are welcome and appreciated! WikiRedactor (talk) 20:27, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer review request
I've been working on the Demi Lovato article for a while and am hoping to get this from GA to FA. A peer review I requested can be found here. My goal is to have it be the "Today's featured article" for her 22nd birthday on August 20th. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 16:07, 14 April 2014 (UTC)